So I was browsing an older post that talked about some numbers for Merchant Marine. I am a bit confused about how this is handed. Would numbers like these just be referring to state-owned ships or those registered in that state? Also, were would be a good place to start looking for data on this. Im trying to get a better grasp on what, if anything, Ireland has in this department.

Help?

We don't have a good way to handle merchant marine. We have discussed it at length (some would say ad-nauseum), but never seemed to arrive at a solution anyone particularly liked. In discussions for nverse4, we've come up with some more ideas of how to reflect it in the economic system, but the draft economic system for nverse4 is completely different, so it's not really pertinent.

As it is now, when there's a war, etc., the mods assess the likelyhood of merchant marine losses and attendant economic impact more or less ad-hoc based on a number of considered factors, including number and prominence of overseas colonies, involvement in state sponsored trade with other countries, and in-character measures taken to encourage MM development.

The top few MM's by flags (which in our era generally means both country of registration and country of ownership) at the end of 1919 are likely (please note these relative ranks are subjective on my part, but all of the top 7 or 8 except France are likely to be quite close in tonnage and number of ships afloat anyway, and I'm probably forgetting somebody):

1. France
2. Netherlands
3. UNK
4. Iberia
5. NS
6. CSA
7. DKB
8. Bavaria
...
15. Romania

So really in pure sim terms its nothing to worry about then?

Well, I wouldn't go that far, as I personally am down 1% of revenue next half because someone was running around sinking merchant ships, but I think it's safe to say that Irish merchant shipping is probably not omnipresent in the world's shipping ports.

Im fine with that. More I was just looking into fleshing out Ireland a bit more and this looked like one area that was not existent.

I think there are probably a few long-haul Irish steamers around. There's likely significantly more Irish-flagged traffic across the Irish Sea. Still, with 3 big MM nations very close by (France, UNK, Dutch), it seems much more likely that stuff is shipped in and out of Ireland in hulls flying those flags than in Irish flagged hulls.

Of course, so role-play and investment to this effect could change all this if you want.

Hello,

France had voluntarily stepped down from a top dog position. Maddox stated numerous times that UNK and then later CSA merchants carried the bulk of her goods. One could call it an Achilles heel.

If that's true, I'd forgotten, but it makes sense I suppose.

All I will say is for a long time I have advocated a more detailed MM system.  In particular one where players could buy / sell MM capacity.  In a sense turn some IC into MM-IC or something.  I want this for two reasons.

1) If players sink another players MM there should be a clear and tangible effect.

2) If players want to play games with their MM like use them to transport troops, supplies, etc. there should be an effect.

This is old ground however and I appear to be in a minority.  Its from my point of view rather silly as right now what real negative is there to allowing people to chop up ones merchant marine?  When mines were laid across the globe and a dozen ships were sunk or went MIA no one really did anything.  This is part of the reason I didn't follow up with more posts.  Why bother?  Since no one cared and there was no in game effect to it.

Michael

Quote from: Blooded on October 06, 2010, 12:13:20 PM
Hello,

France had voluntarily stepped down from a top dog position. Maddox stated numerous times that UNK and then later CSA merchants carried the bulk of her goods. One could call it an Achilles heel.

Correct, and it's a problem. Without foreign shipping, France can't keep up with all the colonies, especialy Polynesia will be vurnable.

Quote from: maddox on October 06, 2010, 01:31:18 PM

Quote from: Blooded on October 06, 2010, 12:13:20 PM
Hello,

France had voluntarily stepped down from a top dog position. Maddox stated numerous times that UNK and then later CSA merchants carried the bulk of her goods. One could call it an Achilles heel.

Correct, and it's a problem. Without foreign shipping, France can't keep up with all the colonies, especialy Polynesia will be vurnable.

There is a distinct game effect...  I'm losing quite a few $ of Revenue due the lost merchants during the Rift war. And of course the convoying after the "exploration", or should I call it "Explodation" of the instant minefields in the med and in Tricomalee port.

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=1438.15

Europe
UNK 4,000,000
NED 4,000,000
FRA 2,000,000
Baltic 4,000,000

Russia 500,000
AH 600,000
Italy 1,000,000
Spain 1,000,000

Americas

GC 1,000,000
Rohan 2,000,000
CSA 1,500,000
USA 500,000

Africa+Asia
Orange 1,000,000
DKB 3,000,000
Swiss 2,500,000
Japan 500,000 (inherited from Swiss)
Turkey 200,000
Siam 100,000
China 200,000

Quote from: Guinness on October 06, 2010, 11:45:21 AM
1. France
2. Netherlands
3. UNK
4. Iberia
5. NS
6. CSA
7. DKB
8. Bavaria
...
15. Romania

I resent that!

Isn't Gran Columbia up there? Looking over old sim reports, GC spent a lot of money buying old Swiss MM ships after the 2nd Pacific War, and seems like it would have a large one, based on it's capitalistic roots.

I swear I've been sinking paper boats :/

GC had no MM to speak of before 1905. Even about 500k GRT from the Swiss that decided to stay under Colombian flag is a lot, but that was some-teen years ago adding to a negligible base value.