Not the same sort of gun...

[Valles]

Houreki Nana-shiki Juu
Houreki 7 Type Rifle

Weight: 4.35kg
Length: 1272.6mm
Barrel Length: 848.4mm

Cartridge: 12.12x48.48mm rimfire (4bu x 1 sun & 5 bu, "Yonjuugo")
Action: Single-Action Revolver
Muzzle Velocity: ~410 m/s
Effective Range: ~1,100m
Feed System: 7-round cylinder, replaceable

[Tanthalas]

nice, its not quite to gunbucket scale is it? and since your using brass you shouldnt have any problems with missfires.

[Valles]

*blinks*

There is a gunbucket?

And no, probably not. This is 2mm/pixel. I'll need to redo it or something...

I also note that the failure to include a bayonet is deliberate; for that purpose, the men would be expected to use their swords.

[Tanthalas]

Yup the 2 I have posted are both in Gunbucket format.

http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=301

That link should hypotheticly take you there, not much of anything for our period but meh its fun to look at anyway.  Oh anyone else having trouble with the site mail?

[Valles]

Hmm. Well, given my standing issues with Shipbucket I obviously can't use any of the actual bits, but...



Weight: 4.35kg
Length: 1272.6mm
Barrel Length: 848.4mm

Cartridge: 12.12x60.6mm rimfire (4 bu x 2 sun, "Yon-ni")
Action: Single-Action Revolver
Muzzle Velocity: ~430 m/s
Effective Range: ~1,200m
Feed System: 7-round cylinder, replaceable

[Carthaginian]

I absolutely LOVE to see these kinds of weapons!
A revolving rifle- it can be fired from a prone position and reloaded without changing position, it will have simple maintenance, easy repairs and rapid response time to a threat.

[Valles]

Yup. And the cylinder exchange mechanism - you can see the lever for it in the diagram - means that you can pop the cylinder straight out of the weapon while under fire to allow the use of a replacement cylinder. For a weapon invented in 1875, that means it's something like at least ten years before internal-magazine weapons can keep up with its sustained rate of fire, since Wiki gives the earliest date for clip-loaded magazine as 1885.

All that, and the only thing in the gun I can't find a direct OTL parallel for is the use of the separate lever to speed cylinder detachment, which I suspect is mostly because I can't find anything on how the pistols of the period did it... Appropriately, that's also the component most likely to break, and even then, not very. Even if the mods rule against that feature, individually-loaded rounds would still be just as quick as a tube-magazine gun.

And most importantly, it's distinctive as hell. Its ultimate replacement - aside from the Houreki Nana-Shiki-Kai, altered to take smokeless powder and speedloaders but externally indistinguishable - will probably be driven by the relentless march of ballistics, rather than other features.

[Korpen]

Yup. And the cylinder exchange mechanism - you can see the lever for it in the diagram - means that you can pop the cylinder straight out of the weapon while under fire to allow the use of a replacement cylinder. For a weapon invented in 1875, that means it's something like at least ten years before internal-magazine weapons can keep up with its sustained rate of fire, since Wiki gives the earliest date for clip-loaded magazine as 1885.

All that, and the only thing in the gun I can't find a direct OTL parallel for is the use of the separate lever to speed cylinder detachment, which I suspect is mostly because I can't find anything on how the pistols of the period did it... Appropriately, that's also the component most likely to break, and even then, not very. Even if the mods rule against that feature, individually-loaded rounds would still be just as quick as a tube-magazine gun.

And most importantly, it's distinctive as hell. Its ultimate replacement - aside from the Houreki Nana-Shiki-Kai, altered to take smokeless powder and speedloaders but externally indistinguishable - will probably be driven by the relentless march of ballistics, rather than other features.

See no such problem with the rifle concept (rifles are after all a secondary weapon compared to the artillery).
However, the drawback of all revolver mechanisms is that you will ever have as complete a gas-seal as you get in a breech loader, especially when you have replaceable cylinders.
So Mv should probably be quite a bit lower and more in line with what the Prussian needle rifle rather then the Chassepot. 

[Valles]

In fact, I started with the Krag-Petersson, then made an arbitrary guess on performance boost based on the fact that I'd inadvertently drawn a considerably longer cartridge. I'd forgotten about the sealing issue, which I figure should bring me right back to about 380m/s and 900m.

[Valles]

And speaking of the God of War...

Nijuu-Kokei Keiou Ni Shiki Sanzun Motogomehou (3 Sun Breechloading Cannon, 20 Caliber, Keiou Year 2 Type)

Weight: 216 Kan (810 kg)
Rifling: 1 Ken (1818 mm)
Chamber: 1 Shaku (303 mm)

Shell: 3 Kan (11.25 kg)
Bore: 3 Sun (90.9mm)
Breech: Armstrong screw with vertical sliding vent-piece (block)
Muzzle Velocity: ~330 m/s
Effective Range: ~3 km

[Carthaginian]

I don't have my reloading stuff with me ATM - at work - but once I get home I can pick through and find you some representative numbers... if Tan don't beat me to it.


The gas seal thing could be an issue, but is somethong that you can work around- even with a removable cylinder... if done right. After all, the cylinder is not actually an integral part of any revolver... they can ALL be removed, it's just that some involve a bit more work than others.

[Tanthalas]

*Digs through his pistol reloading Books*

ok so we are looking at aproximatly a .47X2.38 cart.  Efectivly this would be roughly equivilant to the 458 Winchester Magnum.  with 71 grains of NMRP-202 (a very slow burning powder) you wold get an effective MV of 1900 FPS with a 500 grain round nose (a roughly period bullet).  Honestly that is a bit hot for a revolver type weapon, more realistic for even a modern precision built revolver (the 454 Casual from Freadom arms) is 19.7 grains of Norma R-123 (a much finer and faster burning pistol powder) for an effective MV of 1100 FPS with a 230 grain round nose.

Honestly the only issue is the strength of the action, as to the numbers they are all from the Hornady Handbook 4th Edition, I have never shot a 458 but I own a 454 and thats exactly the load I shoot out of it.

[ctwaterman]

Thats what concerned me.... you are firing a huge hot round from a gun with an incomplete gas seal.  Your going to get gas escape.

On the other hand the reason most of the older guns had a pull down lever that allowed you to completely eject the cylender well that was with Cap and Ball Revolvers.   The reason you changed cylinders on such guns is you had to reload the cylinder chambers by hand instead of inserting a new brass cartridge.

Now I agree a full sealed breach will give you a higher MV and more range but I believe the reason the US Army didnt like the Colt Revolving Rifle in the Civil War was its prone to jamming do to the cylinder getting clogged with dirt and mud :-[

[Tanthalas]

I agree charles the proposed Cart is VERY hot for a Revolver type weapon, I wouldnt have an issue with it for a fallingblock or trapdoor but for a revolver, well I would be afraid of Frame failure.

[Valles]

As I noted, the chosen cartridge dimensions are strictly driven by my drawing something that looked good to me and then figuring out the implications later. What would you consider a 'reasonable' cartridge for a weapon of this type, so I can fiddle the cylinder length appropriately?