no but my Concerns are diferent...

My concern with the MTB rules was that it does not really merit its own tech. Adding it to something else is fine - as the IC tech is deleted, some other one (aircrafts/subs/torpedoes/destroyers).

I do not agree with deleting the engines tech, but it is a minor issue.

When a nation has not dedicated serious time/effort to it, it isn't.
When they were planning on it being a significant portion of their nation's flavor... well, you can guess how aggravating it is.

My concern is with the submarines and Airplanes. So without the ICE Tech section does that mean taht when one builds a sub in the a certain year, it is assumed that one has the required HP output from the engine? Also does that mean an airplane's engine is no longer limited by the ICE tech in the HP that they produce?

Logi:  Yes.  Aircraft and subs are "generic", and don't actively take into account the IC engines, etc. 

Tan:  What is your concern?

Rock My concern is this had the effect of leveling the playing field on Aircraft.  Now people like Me and Ctwaterman that had put in the effort to keep our IC Engine and Airplane techs up to Date have basicly had our advantage on aircraft removed by the stroke of a pen.

Ah, yes. That is a far back concern of mine. I had recently purchased the ICE technology just for this ability. With it, I could have had an equal playing field with CT and Tan in regards to aircraft. Now I find my effort was wasted.

I was also researching aircraft pretty hard...
Now, it's moot. Thanks for reminding me, guys.

I say that this change should be delayed, out of fairness, to the next incarnation of N-verse.

The Mods will discuss.

I'm happy with the submarine change though!

<looks confused>

Ok, so M.A.N. and Maybach and co, who have been working dilegently to produce better aircraft engines and diesel-electric engines for export and domestic use,  have suddenly figured out how to build motor boats.

Granted, I was researching it to be 'in character' at the forefront of engineering, I was hoping perhaps I could eventually export some aircraft and marine diesels for other's warships, but that wasn't crucial, just the intent.   

I've looked at the ICE line as more of a prerequisite line. Hard to have planes with big engines, if you can't make big engines. Same with Subs, tanks, ...and MTBs.

MTBs fit the Adriatic wonderfully, once I figure out how one builds em, I will... but wouldn't a split off the DD tech line make more sense?

Edit 1: Or avoid a new tech and simply say if You have DD tech A and ICE Tech Z, you can build MTB 1 or 2, but if you have B and C then you can build 3 and 4...

Edit 2 : I don't suppose there is an option to 'Unresearch' ICE and put those advances into other techs?

Edit 3: explanation : On reflection, had I been making an active choice between MTB and "other" I would have chosen "other". Bavaria's likely not going to make more than a couple dozen MTBs, I'd rather buy those from somebody else. Put the tech advances into something more suited for Bavaria- Zeppelins, Airplanes, Motorized or Lt/Hv Armor.

ICE is the most logical tech to put MTBs in. It is not really difficult to figure out that one could put 3000SHP engines in tiny boats, and arm those boats with torpedoes. The difficult thing is to figure out how to built compact lightweight 1000HP+ engines.

Then, we should simply have went with an addition to the existing tech instead of tossing it completely. say, if you can build a 3000 shp diesel, you can build a 1000 shp racing engine fit for a MTB.

Sorry, but that tech was a hinge for a lot of things- now, it's tossed strategies of whole nations out of whack.

If we ARE going to ditch ICE, I also support the 'unresearch' thing for all the ICE and related tech (like capital ship diesels). That will let us with plans make up for having sometimes as much as 10 game years of research striped.

Why would the MTBs have to use ICEs? The Swiss Turbinias as designed have been using steam turbines for a while now. They are MTBs but dont use ICEs.

I tend to agree with KK and Carth, alot of us were puting serious cash into our engine programs.