AFAIK Persia and Moghal are blank, like you said. But Persia does seem to have atleast some political ties to other that you'd have to concider if you took it. Seems they are friendly w/ the Orange. Something about laying mines in the Straits of Hormuz..

Yes, Persia, Mughal and/or Bharat are tabula rasa.
Borys

Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on August 08, 2008, 01:48:26 AM
Silly question, poking about I found your old musings on the Bavarian army and posting of the port for Brazhells information,  but I haven't seen anything on Persia/Mughal outside the Economy thread. I take it they are blank slates ?

As Borys said they are balnk, and minor states.
Bavaria is as i suspect you have found out, a middle weight country in the same class as Italy.
One interesting thing with Bavaria is that in one way the fleet is disposable, as its main tasks would be to secure the flanks of the army. This means one can basically create any sort of flee one fancy :)

Hiya all,

II was curious as to how developable the Mughals and Persians were, so I tried to figure out the economic rules. Fortunately there are some helpful posts. I am curious if I am understanding things correctly.

In poking about I saw a note that $75 is the amount needed for an IC, but from the sample report it looks like you can pay partially towards that -
example:  For Industrial development: $93.25. 

Am I interpreting that correctly?

Second in terms of development,
For a country like Persia :
Persia      15   1.5   10   21

That means an IC could, barring any other expenses, be bought every 4th HY. The country would have a max of 60 IC and a max income of 75.   

Full development,  barring any other expenditures, takes 43.5years :) Interestingly it would take the Mughals 55 years, but they would have a great deal more at the end.

Now, the economic rules state: $150 for 0.5BP - minimum increment

but I see in Iberia's report that this can be partially paid...
Industrial Investment: $41.429
--41.429 towards 0.5 BP in Philippines (total 41.429+49.845 = 91.27 / 150)

So Persia could build a 0.5 BP ...it would just take 4 years.

Am I interpreting this all correctly?

Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on August 09, 2008, 02:12:18 AM
Am I interpreting this all correctly?

Yes.

Hah! progress then!

Ahoj!
Yes, you can pay partials towards new IC and BP.
However, the 0,5 BP becomes productive only after payment of 150$. Same applies to IC - before you pay the full 75$, nothing comes out of it.

The Persian ceiling can be increased in two ways:
- population increase due to natural causes, as IC brings in more money when there is more people;
- conquest and aquisition of land and people;

Borys

Looking at Bazhell's HY1 1908 report he has different #s of BPs and ICs for Bavaria than listed under economy (7.25BP, 49IC vs. 11.5BP and 50IC). I noted the thread adjusting BPs/Nation, but what year did that take effect?  Were Persia and Mughal 1.0 BP prior to that increase?

From the Hapsburg SIM report, there is a "Light" Infantry division listed as a specialist unit. Is this a new type not listed under the army rules, or an in-character thing? 

One thing I noted about Persia/Mughal is they can support quite a lot more specialist army corps than regular because of BP consumption during wartime conditions. A mix of Mountain, Cavalry, and "Light" divisions would make sense for many of their borders. They have manpower but no industry.

A couple of questions regarding P3D's 'sample report' spreadsheet.

1. The spreadsheet allows 1/2 of BP for research, the Research rules say 1/3. looking at the Hapsburg and Japanese SIMs, 1/3 appears correct, so I presume the sample is wrong ?

2. The spreadsheet has a calculation providing 2 IC for each unspent BP. Looking at the Economy rules, I don't see that, but looking at Japans sim, that seems to be included, so I presume the sample is correct here?

Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on August 10, 2008, 10:08:13 AM
Looking at Bazhell's HY1 1908 report he has different #s of BPs and ICs for Bavaria than listed under economy (7.25BP, 49IC vs. 11.5BP and 50IC). I noted the thread adjusting BPs/Nation, but what year did that take effect?  Were Persia and Mughal 1.0 BP prior to that increase?

The BP increase took effect in 1909.

QuoteFrom the Hapsburg SIM report, there is a "Light" Infantry division listed as a specialist unit. Is this a new type not listed under the army rules, or an in-character thing? 

It is noted in the land tech, light infantry belong to the same tech as cavalry and mountain troops.

Quote1. The spreadsheet allows 1/2 of BP for research, the Research rules say 1/3. looking at the Hapsburg and Japanese SIMs, 1/3 appears correct, so I presume the sample is wrong ?

You are correct, the sample is not updated.

Quote2. The spreadsheet has a calculation providing 2 IC for each unspent BP. Looking at the Economy rules, I don't see that, but looking at Japans sim, that seems to be included, so I presume the sample is correct here?

Again i think the sample is in error.

As Korpen wrote.

The higher Bavarian BP and IC reflects the Great BP Increase and the money invested in IC over some time. By today Bavaria probably has 52 or so IC.

There is "line infantry" and "everything else", the latter being termed "specialised corps". And a specialised corps can be called anything you fancy, which SOMETIMES even might even have a game effect - the Moderators might decide that in the Moutains the Gebirgsjaeger moved faster than the opposition, outflanked them and destroyed them after a snowstorm - all due to being equipped and trained as Mountain Infantry.
And the same Gebirgsjaeger can get slaughtered in open, flat country by the Lifeguard Cossak Corps.

After the Great BP Increase the research/BP ratio was altered.

The BP to IC exchange rate is an overlooked leftover of an early draught of the Rules.

Borys

Thanks for the responses, I'm trying some spreadsheet dry runs to see how Persia/Mughal and Bavaria might have grown, and what their forces may look like  since the 1906/1906/1908 versions

Follow up question-
BPs shown in Economy are as of 1909.
ICs shown in Economy are as of... 1909 for Bavaria (1) and 1898 for Persia/Mughal?

(1)Bazhell put $50 into IC HY1 1908, so the growth of 49 to 50 by 1909 makes sense

Ahoj!
All seem updated to 1/1909.
I will give rough estimates of their state today.

Bavaria      26.52   11   50   76.52

8 HY at 50$ towards IC (25/75):
Bavaria      27,5   11   55   82
or, if 300$ spent on BP, and 100$ on IC (25/75)
Bavaria      27,5   12   51   78


Persia      15   1.5   10   21
let us say 15$ per HY on IC (50/75):
Persia      15,6   1.5   11   22

Boratistan      12   0.5   7   15
Let us say 5$ per HY on IC = 40/75:

Mughal      90   1.5   30   72
8 HY at 50$ towards IC (25/75):
Mughal      93,5   1.5   35   81,6
or
if 300$ spent on BP, and 100$ on IC (25/75)
Mughal      93,5   2.5   31   74,5


Note: Borys does not like fractions
ADDED LATER: Corected Mughal figures

I would suggest one of the Asian nations as Bavaria while far more powerful is in a very crowded place with the games heavy weight of France next door.  So ability to do things is VERY limited in Europe.  IMHO...

Being very frugal in army and fleet spending - the Mughlas could had channeled 56,25$ per HY into their economy - thus could had added 6IC in the relevant period.

Borys