Aztec Ship Designs 1929-1934

TacCovert4 · September 11, 2023, 07:20:53 AM

You ever have those moments where you design a ship, just to realize that the docks that can handle said ship won't be available for six more months.......

This is one of those times. So a small set of changes. Overall went from twin 130s to singles, added some firefighting equipment which was an oversight before, so 200 tons of kit to keep the hangars from burning up, which seems to be reasonable. And since I WILL have a DP gun in the queue in 1929-1.....the design is set up literally to allow the mid-construction refit to swap the planned battery to a new DP battery in the galleries. Or in the British Parlance....Fitted For but not With.

Constellation, Aztec Aircraft Carrier laid down 1929

Displacement:
   22,766 t light; 23,373 t standard; 25,368 t normal; 26,964 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (762.51 ft / 754.59 ft) x 82.02 ft x (26.08 / 27.38 ft)
   (232.41 m / 230.00 m) x 25.00 m x (7.95 / 8.34 m)

Armament:
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.97lbs / 32.19kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
     2 x Twin mounts on sides forward
      2 double raised mounts
12 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.08lbs / 5.03kg shells, 300 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
     10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 718 lbs / 326 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.15" / 80 mm   603.67 ft / 184.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   150.89 ft / 45.99 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
     Main Belt covers 123 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.57" / 40 mm   603.67 ft / 184.00 m   24.08 ft / 7.34 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 59.06 ft / 18.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.36" / 60 mm   1.57" / 40 mm        -
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm     -           -
   3rd:     -        -         0.98" / 25 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.76" / 70 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3.15" / 80 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 140,996 shp / 105,183 Kw = 32.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,591 tons

Complement:
   1,004 - 1,306

Cost:
   £5.774 million / $23.098 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 128 tons, 0.5 %
     - Guns: 128 tons, 0.5 %
   Armour: 4,249 tons, 16.7 %
     - Belts: 1,124 tons, 4.4 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 847 tons, 3.3 %
     - Armament: 103 tons, 0.4 %
     - Armour Deck: 2,116 tons, 8.3 %
     - Conning Tower: 59 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 4,330 tons, 17.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,086 tons, 31.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,602 tons, 10.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 5,973 tons, 23.5 %
     - Hull below water: 2,900 tons
     - Hull above water: 2,948 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 50 tons
     - Above deck: 75 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     43,547 lbs / 19,753 Kg = 649.6 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 5.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.36
   Metacentric height 6.4 ft / 2.0 m
   Roll period: 13.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.79

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.557
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.20 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 27.47 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   12.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Forward deck:   40.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Aft deck:   40.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   8.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      29.53 ft / 9.00 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 115.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 242.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 43,194 Square feet or 4,013 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 132 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 562 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.58
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

13t - 1918 FC
25t - NF Devices
25t - LR Radio
10t - Additional SR Radio

5700t - 60 x Aircraft (Provision for heavier tech expansion)

50t BW - Additional Pumps
50t - On Deck Firefighting Equipment
100t AW - Hangar Firefighting Equipment

TacCovert4 · September 11, 2023, 11:17:30 AM

And, as keeps getting put by the wayside, I desperately need to get some more replenishment ships in the water. Therefore, the Tuna-Class, which keeps getting updated, is back on the menu. This time, I've cut the length down to where she doesn't interfere with my larger drydocks and can use some of my mid-sized ones. With diesels, I've also been able to significantly increase fuel bunkerage for replenishment while maintaining a ridiculous cruising endurance for the ship itself:

Tuna-Class, Aztec Replenishment Ship laid down 1929

Displacement:
   14,114 t light; 14,509 t standard; 15,769 t normal; 16,778 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (490.01 ft / 485.56 ft) x 72.18 ft x (19.69 / 20.83 ft)
   (149.35 m / 148.00 m) x 22.00 m x (6.00 / 6.35 m)

Armament:
4 - 7.09" / 180 mm 50.0 cal guns - 188.38lbs / 85.45kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.08lbs / 5.03kg shells, 300 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on side ends, majority aft
Weight of broadside 830 lbs / 377 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Ends:   Unarmoured

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      0.31" / 8 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 59.06 ft / 18.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:     -        -         0.79" / 20 mm
   3rd:     -        -         0.79" / 20 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors, plus diesel motors,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 46,108 shp / 34,397 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,269 tons

Complement:
   703 - 914

Cost:
   £3.106 million / $12.425 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 239 tons, 1.5 %
     - Guns: 239 tons, 1.5 %
   Armour: 92 tons, 0.6 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 90 tons, 0.6 %
     - Armament: 1 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,416 tons, 9.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,666 tons, 23.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,656 tons, 10.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 8,701 tons, 55.2 %
     - Hull below water: 6,027 tons
     - Hull above water: 2,400 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 200 tons
     - Above deck: 74 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     21,434 lbs / 9,722 Kg = 120.5 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.66
   Metacentric height 7.1 ft / 2.2 m
   Roll period: 11.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.07
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.16

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.800 / 0.804
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.73 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.04 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 25.20 ft / 7.68 m, 20.64 ft / 6.29 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 20.64 ft / 6.29 m, 16.04 ft / 4.89 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 16.04 ft / 4.89 m, 16.04 ft / 4.89 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 16.04 ft / 4.89 m, 16.04 ft / 4.89 m
     - Average freeboard:      18.02 ft / 5.49 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 113.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 142.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 30,824 Square feet or 2,864 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 92 lbs/sq ft or 449 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.21
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

24t - 1918 FC
25t - LR Wireless
25t - NF Devices

50t - 2 x Cranes
50t - Refueling Hoses
50t - Firefighting Hoses
50t - 2 x Catapult & Unarmed Floatplane

50t - Firefighting Pumps
50t - Refueling Pumps
500t - Workshops
1800t - Dry Goods Storage

5500t - Fuel Oil
427t - Diesel Engines
100t - Damage Control Pumps

Range is 16,100nm @ 14kt Cruising Speed w/Geared Diesels

TacCovert4 · September 11, 2023, 11:43:52 AM

And an associated design, a Seaplane Tender for carrying a mixed AP of floatplanes and flying boats. With catapults for putting up a couple of planes either quickly or if the ship is in motion for defense.

Island-Class, Aztec Colonial Seaplane Tender laid down 1929

Displacement:
   12,543 t light; 12,894 t standard; 14,049 t normal; 14,973 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (489.04 ft / 485.56 ft) x 65.62 ft x (19.69 / 20.86 ft)
   (149.06 m / 148.00 m) x 20.00 m x (6.00 / 6.36 m)

Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.97lbs / 32.19kg shells, 300 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
      1 raised mount
8 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.08lbs / 5.03kg shells, 300 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 386 lbs / 175 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Ends:   Unarmoured

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      0.24" / 6 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 59.06 ft / 18.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      0.79" / 20 mm
   3rd:     -        -         0.79" / 20 mm

- Box over magazines:
   0.79" / 20 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 0.79" / 20 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors, plus diesel motors,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 41,773 shp / 31,163 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,079 tons

Complement:
   644 - 838

Cost:
   £2.624 million / $10.497 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 94 tons, 0.7 %
     - Guns: 94 tons, 0.7 %
   Armour: 107 tons, 0.8 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 68 tons, 0.5 %
     - Armament: 12 tons, 0.1 %
     - Armour Deck: 17 tons, 0.1 %
     - Conning Tower: 10 tons, 0.1 %
   Machinery: 1,283 tons, 9.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,601 tons, 25.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,506 tons, 10.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 7,459 tons, 53.1 %
     - Hull below water: 3,688 tons
     - Hull above water: 3,500 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 200 tons
     - Above deck: 71 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     21,963 lbs / 9,962 Kg = 327.6 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.44
   Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 12.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.07
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.66

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise aft of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.784 / 0.789
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.40 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.04 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 36
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      23.23 ft / 7.08 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 191.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,594 Square feet or 2,564 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 134 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 88 lbs/sq ft or 430 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.83
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

11t - 1918 FC
25t - LR Wireless
10t - Additional SR Wireless
25t - NF Devices

50t - 2 x Cranes
50t - Refueling Hoses
50t - Firefighting Hoses
70t - 2 x Catapult & Armed Floatplane

50t - Firefighting Pumps
50t - Refueling Pumps
200t - Workshops

6400t - Air Point And Supports

388t - Diesel Engines
100t - Damage Control Pumps

Range is 16,100nm @ 14kt Cruising Speed w/Geared Diesels

The Rock Doctor · September 11, 2023, 03:38:11 PM

Those are some pretty chonky auxiliaries.

TacCovert4 · September 11, 2023, 04:03:38 PM

The Tuna class is a result of ships getting huge and the mayans.

I need the tonnage for fuel and stores and workshops. The aircraft are testing the idea of delivering mail via air to ships and such.

The armament.....is the mayans fault. I don't have the numbers of escorts to always protect them. So putting enough firepower on the tender that it can let someone know it was there is useful. No armor and those unprotected guns, she's not capable of offense. But if a Mayan raider was to try to take her out, it could get hurt enough that it was mission killed......so they have deterrent value.

The Rock Doctor · September 11, 2023, 04:05:57 PM

I was speaking more of the block co-efficient on the hulls. They're quite full hullforms.

TacCovert4 · September 11, 2023, 06:43:34 PM

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 11, 2023, 04:05:57 PM
I was speaking more of the block co-efficient on the hulls. They're quite full hullforms.

Ahh, yes. Maximum storage space, stability, etc. Also really helps the TDS keep them safe from a stray submarine torpedo. Because yes, I'm starting to drop a TDS, even a relatively weak double-bottom one, onto my fuel-carrying ships, to at least give them a fighting chance if they take a submarine torpedo. It's really thin because don't have a choice to keep it under 2%. But it represents basically a layer with an STS bulkhead to give stand-off before the buoyancy hull or the vital space is breached.

Plus, with their performance characteristics, and general space for the amount of crew, these should basically be the most comfortable ships in the fleet. Heck, if you're a gunners mate with a 180mm certification, you'd probably give your left nut to be assigned to a Tuna. I intend to build out a full class here, already have the names planned:

Albacore,
Bigeye,
Blackfin,
Bluefin
Tunny,
Longtail,
Skipjack,
Yellowfin

Kaiser Kirk · September 11, 2023, 11:42:23 PM

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 11, 2023, 04:05:57 PM
I was speaking more of the block co-efficient on the hulls. They're quite full hullforms.

Interesting.
I don't have a great feel for simming merchies, but big bulky hullforms seem par for the course,
I think I normally set mine at .7 or .75.

This site https://www.marineinsight.com/naval-architecture/understanding-block-coefficient-of-a-ship/
Says .8 to .9 but that's for modern ships, the big containers and tankers, with modern engines.
I'd expect earlier merchants might want a little more fuel economy and be slimmer.
This site is beyond my understanding, but the bottom bar is BC (CB) for modern merchants
and goes from 0.5494 to .842
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Bluntness-coefficients-B-f-of-typical-merchant-ships-vs-block-coefficient_fig40_288002232

As for warships, Friedman's Battleship design and development has tables in the back, and the greatest battleship BC I can find is USS Pennsylvania at .656, so not far short of .7.
Some of the ships like Von Der Taan have fairly low BCs because they had long tapering bows and sterns but great width amidships.

TacCovert4 · September 12, 2023, 08:51:21 AM

While the intention is to lay down a pair each of Lake and Uhlan class vessels in late 1928, because I like those ships.....I have listened to the prodding, mostly Kirk, to develop a smaller balanced cruiser.

Thus I present:

Shark-class, Aztec Corvette laid down 1929

Displacement:
   7,999 t light; 8,396 t standard; 9,476 t normal; 10,339 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (566.10 ft / 557.74 ft) x 61.02 ft x (18.04 / 19.33 ft)
   (172.55 m / 170.00 m) x 18.60 m x (5.50 / 5.89 m)

Armament:
8 - 7.09" / 180 mm 50.0 cal guns - 188.38lbs / 85.45kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm 50.0 cal guns - 32.30lbs / 14.65kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
24 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,786 lbs / 810 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   362.53 ft / 110.50 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   195.18 ft / 59.49 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.53" / 115 mm   2.36" / 60 mm      4.53" / 115 mm
   2nd:   2.36" / 60 mm   1.38" / 35 mm        -
   4th:     -        -         0.79" / 20 mm

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.17" / 55 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 2.36" / 60 mm, Aft 2.36" / 60 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 74,245 shp / 55,387 Kw = 30.80 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,944 tons

Complement:
   479 - 624

Cost:
   £3.097 million / $12.387 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 407 tons, 4.3 %
     - Guns: 407 tons, 4.3 %
   Armour: 1,975 tons, 20.8 %
     - Belts: 917 tons, 9.7 %
     - Armament: 143 tons, 1.5 %
     - Armour Deck: 870 tons, 9.2 %
     - Conning Towers: 46 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 2,280 tons, 24.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,093 tons, 32.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,477 tons, 15.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 243 tons, 2.6 %
     - Hull above water: 66 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 107 tons
     - Above deck: 70 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,815 lbs / 4,906 Kg = 60.8 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 15.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.14 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Average freeboard:      19.32 ft / 5.89 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 175.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,532 Square feet or 2,186 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 92 lbs/sq ft or 447 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.87
      - Longitudinal: 1.17
      - Overall: 0.90
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

32t - 2 x 4 x 21in HW TT on sides aft
60t - 2 x Catapult and 2 x Armed floatplane
60t - Power Assist for 180mm Mounts

25t - LR Wireless
25t - NF Devices
41t - 1918 FC

TacCovert4 · September 13, 2023, 11:13:34 AM

I freely admit to incompetence where it regards major refit work on ships.

Looking towards 1931 or so, when I'll want to refit the 3 obsolete Implacables into something at least reasonably useful. Overall I'm looking at the following changes in this refurbishment. Cost is $15.86 and 3.26 BP, after savings realized from scrapping unused components. And it'll take right at a year, slightly more, so 3 hy.

Replacing the old machinery and electric drives.

Pulling all of the casemate guns, and deck guns, including all AA.

Adding a 15mm splinter deck when the armor deck is put back on after the machinery replacement

Adding 4 x 40mm AA Gatlings, 12 x 120mm DP Twins, and 16 x 30mm AA Singles

Adding a Basic Hydrophone (anticipating I'm going to be using these in the colonies, the ability to get some warning of an approaching ship or sub is important)

Updated FC and NF Devices

2 Floatplanes and Catapults

Implacable, Aztec Battleship laid down 1913 (Engine 1931)

Displacement:
   23,944 t light; 25,187 t standard; 27,320 t normal; 29,026 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (629.29 ft / 623.36 ft) x 82.02 ft (Bulges 88.58 ft) x (26.64 / 28.16 ft)
   (191.81 m / 190.00 m) x 25.00 m (Bulges 27.00 m) x (8.12 / 8.58 m)

Armament:
10 - 11.02" / 280 mm 50.0 cal guns - 709.07lbs / 321.63kg shells, 110 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1913 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
24 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.91lbs / 25.81kg shells, 300 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
     12 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
     4 x 2 row quad mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
16 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
     16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 8,504 lbs / 3,857 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   410.11 ft / 125.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   2.76" / 70 mm   213.25 ft / 65.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Upper:   5.91" / 150 mm   410.11 ft / 125.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.97" / 50 mm   410.11 ft / 125.00 m   29.53 ft / 9.00 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 65.62 ft / 20.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   8.86" / 225 mm      13.4" / 340 mm
   2nd:   2.76" / 70 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      2.76" / 70 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.74" / 95 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 3.15" / 80 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 13.39" / 340 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 54,722 shp / 40,823 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 10,500nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,839 tons

Complement:
   1,062 - 1,381

Cost:
   £2.148 million / $8.592 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,838 tons, 6.7 %
     - Guns: 1,838 tons, 6.7 %
   Armour: 11,372 tons, 41.6 %
     - Belts: 5,049 tons, 18.5 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 882 tons, 3.2 %
     - Armament: 2,606 tons, 9.5 %
     - Armour Deck: 2,574 tons, 9.4 %
     - Conning Tower: 262 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,636 tons, 6.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,239 tons, 30.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,376 tons, 12.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 859 tons, 3.1 %
     - Hull below water: 515 tons
     - Hull above water: 92 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 60 tons
     - Above deck: 192 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     49,317 lbs / 22,370 Kg = 73.6 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 9.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 17.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.38

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.653
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.04 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   15.43 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
     - Aft deck:   39.14 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.43 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      20.99 ft / 6.40 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 143.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 39,167 Square feet or 3,639 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 156 lbs/sq ft or 761 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.29
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

410t - Electric Drives
5t - Basic Hydrophones
100t - Additional Damage Control Equipment

50t - Flag Bridge
25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices 1918
184t - 1918 FC

60t - Aviation Facilities, Catapults, and 2 x Armed Floatplane

Deck is 80mm Monolithic with 15mm Splinter

TacCovert4 · September 13, 2023, 10:07:39 PM

And an anticipated Refurb of the Sultan Ali Class, bringing them up to the modern era with an engine replacement, a 25mm Splinter Deck, and an all new secondary and AA battery, plus two amidships catapults and 4 floatplanes.

Sultan Ali, Aztec Battlecruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1931)

Displacement:
   25,717 t light; 27,036 t standard; 28,833 t normal; 30,270 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (717.87 ft / 705.38 ft) x 85.30 ft x (29.53 / 30.71 ft)
   (218.81 m / 215.00 m) x 26.00 m x (9.00 / 9.36 m)

Armament:
8 - 11.02" / 280 mm 50.0 cal guns - 709.07lbs / 321.63kg shells, 110 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1913 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.90lbs / 25.81kg shells, 400 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
     12 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
24 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
     12 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.12lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
     4 x 2 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 7,093 lbs / 3,217 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   492.13 ft / 150.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   213.25 ft / 65.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   492.13 ft / 150.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 107 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.97" / 50 mm   492.13 ft / 150.00 m   32.81 ft / 10.00 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 65.62 ft / 20.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.2" / 260 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      10.2" / 260 mm
   2nd:   2.76" / 70 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      2.76" / 70 mm
   3rd:     -        -         0.79" / 20 mm
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 123,294 shp / 91,978 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 8,500nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,234 tons

Complement:
   1,106 - 1,438

Cost:
   £2.371 million / $9.484 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,555 tons, 5.4 %
     - Guns: 1,555 tons, 5.4 %
   Armour: 10,151 tons, 35.2 %
     - Belts: 4,205 tons, 14.6 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,176 tons, 4.1 %
     - Armament: 1,798 tons, 6.2 %
     - Armour Deck: 2,773 tons, 9.6 %
     - Conning Tower: 199 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 3,687 tons, 12.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,026 tons, 31.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,116 tons, 10.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,297 tons, 4.5 %
     - Hull below water: 922 tons
     - Hull above water: 86 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 110 tons
     - Above deck: 179 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     39,067 lbs / 17,721 Kg = 58.3 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 6.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
   Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 17.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.568 / 0.573
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.27 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.56 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   15.43 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
     - Aft deck:   39.14 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.43 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      21.39 ft / 6.52 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 42,707 Square feet or 3,968 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 152 lbs/sq ft or 743 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.18
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

922t BW Electric Drives

50t Flag Bridge
25t - 1918 NF Devices
25t - LR Radio

165t - 1918 FC

110t - 2 x Catapult Amidships and 4 x Armed Floatplane

Armored Deck is 75mm Monolithic, with a 25mm Splinter

Kaiser Kirk · September 14, 2023, 09:02:52 AM

Refurbishments are financially fairly reasonable for life extension purposes. These were fairly modern ships, so you can stay out of very expensive reconstruction.

Typically, when I'm starting a rebuild project, I start by saving as... to have a fresh file.
Then in the comments I note the original main gun+mounts, main magazine, engine weight, and bunkerage limits- all of those can't go up under refurbishment. I also note deck armor, as I'll be changing it.

Considering the Mayan 10" ships, there's definitely an OPFOR foe. Plus if you're called on to help the IJN vs. China, they have suitable vessels.
And of course they can oppose various 10" cruisers.

I see the date is 1931, I presume so you can have the early DP technology from the Capital ship lineage.
Don't forget to add a little time in, after that development, for researching DP mounts as well.

While you cannot 'increase' deck armor, you can add another deck.
Which makes sense, you can't physically inflate the existing deck material.
I have clarified that that can be a separate deck, or as was done with many ships - laminated directly over the existing deck.
The additional laminated deck is only 80% effective, while a separate deck only adds 50% but also limits damage beyond that- depending on thickness vs. shell, vs overall pen. Both have merits. Both need to be spelled out in the notes.

Turreted mounts : IF regunning- which I develop new guns to fit old mountings, but you're not calling for - the clarification from Snip long long ago is that you take the Guns+mounts tonnage ...and that's the limit for rearming using the same barbettes. The gun face/other armor probably needs to be replaced, but the barbette armor stays.

TacCovert4 · September 14, 2023, 09:43:52 AM

Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on September 14, 2023, 09:02:52 AM
Refurbishments are financially fairly reasonable for life extension purposes. These were fairly modern ships, so you can stay out of very expensive reconstruction.

Typically, when I'm starting a rebuild project, I start by saving as... to have a fresh file.
Then in the comments I note the original main gun+mounts, main magazine, engine weight, and bunkerage limits- all of those can't go up under refurbishment. I also note deck armor, as I'll be changing it.

Considering the Mayan 10" ships, there's definitely an OPFOR foe. Plus if you're called on to help the IJN vs. China, they have suitable vessels.
And of course they can oppose various 10" cruisers.

I see the date is 1931, I presume so you can have the early DP technology from the Capital ship lineage.
Don't forget to add a little time in, after that development, for researching DP mounts as well.

While you cannot 'increase' deck armor, you can add another deck.
Which makes sense, you can't physically inflate the existing deck material.
I have clarified that that can be a separate deck, or as was done with many ships - laminated directly over the existing deck.
The additional laminated deck is only 80% effective, while a separate deck only adds 50% but also limits damage beyond that- depending on thickness vs. shell, vs overall pen. Both have merits. Both need to be spelled out in the notes.

Turreted mounts : IF regunning- which I develop new guns to fit old mountings, but you're not calling for - the clarification from Snip long long ago is that you take the Guns+mounts tonnage ...and that's the limit for rearming using the same barbettes. The gun face/other armor probably needs to be replaced, but the barbette armor stays.

That's what I did. It was just quite a slog to do on the Implacable. I'm working on the Sultan Ali slog now. Paperwork, the bane of everyone's existence. The Implacables lose some magazine capacity in the secondary and AA compared to what's being laid down now and in future. But I think I can make them viable units in secondary roles into the mid-late 40s.

And no, I'm not swapping guns in existing mounts. I'm removing the entire secbat and AA wholesale, as at this point it's a couple of generations out of date, and swapping it for a modern battery. I complete the tech to get DP guns in 1928.5, so a 1931 year start for the 5 ships between the two classes.....will allow for the new guns to have been developed.

TacCovert4 · September 14, 2023, 09:55:39 AM

Cost for the Sultan Ali refurb:

3 HY of time (a bit less, but it'll get done over 3 hy)

Cash Cost: 21.01

BP Cost: 5.21

Kaiser Kirk · September 14, 2023, 10:15:41 AM

The Gilgamesh came out at 3HY, the PD's before were 2HY.
You're allowed to pay over all the time, or lump sum it (aka preorder).

I note you have a large number of 120mm secondary mounts, (Ali's need to be toggled to twin)
Granted 6 per side isn't tremendous, though the Ali could potentially be showing 24 single mounts.

However, very very early on, there was a discussion about what could be fit on a ship and
we decided that as long as SS's happy with it, we don't micromanage such things.

I had been thinking of the overhead profiles of the Americans and mentally limiting myself
to 5 per side typically, and often I used a pattern with 'c' and 'w' mounts , then side mounts.
That could get me to 12 pretty easy, but I'm aiming for 10. When I build long ships I may add more.