Big Ass Map

[Tanthalas]

Is there one? or should I make one (I have a blank white map with OTL teritories drawn on it).  This would give us a point to atleast start arguing borders.

[Darman]

I'm pretty sure that we have borders in mind (at least I do) and I think the USA might be a little smaller territory-wise, as will the UK's empire.  France/Germany might be swapping Alsace-Lorraine, whoever is considered weaker will get it.  Italy and Austro-Hungary are (to my best knowledge) their pre-Great War selves.  So possible tensions along the Trentino Front... The Ottoman Empire has lost Greece and most of its Balkans territories.  There will be much tension in the region.  I have plans for Austro-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire like Snip said but they are really a sideshow, if someone else wants Austro-Hungary feel free to take it as your primary nation.  Otherwise gear up your war industries because the Balkans under my influence will be as hot as OTL and will be looking for war materials. 

Come to think of it, that right there is a reason to require at least some war industries (BP) to build an army corps or maintain an army corps on the frontlines....

[Tanthalas]

I figured borders would be as OTL for the most part, I can make arguments for a USA/CSA split as just like the Balkans it makes for an interesting Dynamic (I think its almost inevitable that a CSA ends up "allied" to GB and a USA ends up eventualy allied to germany), that said its up to the Mods and the player holding the USA.  Realisticly I could see both Nations still falling into the upper tier of powers.  All that said im more than willing to draw the map (it makes a nice peice of fluff if nothing else)

I'm pretty sure that we have borders in mind (at least I do) and I think the USA might be a little smaller territory-wise, as will the UK's empire.  France/Germany might be swapping Alsace-Lorraine, whoever is considered weaker will get it.  Italy and Austro-Hungary are (to my best knowledge) their pre-Great War selves.  So possible tensions along the Trentino Front... The Ottoman Empire has lost Greece and most of its Balkans territories.  There will be much tension in the region.  I have plans for Austro-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire like Snip said but they are really a sideshow, if someone else wants Austro-Hungary feel free to take it as your primary nation.  Otherwise gear up your war industries because the Balkans under my influence will be as hot as OTL and will be looking for war materials. 

Come to think of it, that right there is a reason to require at least some war industries (BP) to build an army corps or maintain an army corps on the frontlines....

[snip]

Go ahead and put one together that is OTL Earth approximently 1900. We can hash out the exact changes from there. A USA/CSA split is a possibility, but don't include it on the map for this first go.

[Tanthalas]

Go ahead and put one together that is OTL Earth approximently 1900. We can hash out the exact changes from there. A USA/CSA split is a possibility, but don't include it on the map for this first go.

Will do, Got to do a bit of diging but ill try and post somthing up in this thread today.

[Darman]

I think a CSA or West Coast equivalent would be a good balance for the USA.  Both would be great powers, but they would have to keep a wary eye on each other close to home as well as worrying about colonies overseas. 

[snip]

OK. Thanks for jumping right back into things.

I figure now we can begin talking about who gets what alternative from OTL 1900 (still want the map to be base 1900 tho for the first pass). Here are my thoughts, with the reasoning behind each. I dont really care about the how these changes would happen right now, just what we need to see for balence purpaces.

United Kingdom: Needs signification amounts of territory economic minimized. These minimization would not hit the manufacturing base as much, making cash the main limited for UK shipbuilding while allowing them to fill multiple foreign orders.

• Losses most of India
• Reduced influence in China
• Looses South Africa, but keeps Suez Canal

United States: Needs less territorial minimization then the UK, but will take some at the expense of Spain. This requires the US player to hack out a place in the Pacific as opposed to being gifted one right of the bat to go with a large, semi untouchable, industrial base.

• Losses Spanish Pacific possessions
• Reduced influence in China
• No Panama Canal at game start.

Germany: Gives up a little bit to France by splitting the Alcese-Lorraine baby.

• Losses about half of Alcese-Lorraine

France: Gains a little bit from Germany by splitting the Alcese-Lorraine baby.

• Gains about half of Alcese-Lorraine

Spain: Holds onto its pacific colonies along with an improved China influence to give them more cash. Does not really improve the industrial situation, but will allow them the cash nessisary to place lots of orders with foreign yards.

• Keeps Pacific colonies
• Improved China influence

I don't really see the need to majorly tweak other states. Thoughts?

USA/CSA Split: The two states would be far from equile IMO, with the US having the upper hand industrially, (The US would be a major power, the CSA a very upper end Large Purchaser) but it would go a long way to prevent the US to run away with manufacturing power. Of cource the CSA would need a big friend to help.

[Tanthalas]

*Warning possibly inflamitory post* (it isnt intended as such but I have to get into some topics that tend to bring out strong emotions)

Causes and Conditions that led to the US Civil War, my Major was in History so my outlook is a bit diferent I supose but still legitimate (ignore Wikipedia on this one as people tend to get irate if you edit it to bring up some of these points). 

In the Pre Civil War United States the southern (read slave) states were actualy in a better posistion financialy, they were largly an export economy however and wanted to change that.  Initialy they atempted to industrialise by buying equipment from Northern supliers but were largly rebuked (northern industrialists wanted to keep them as a cheep source of raw materials).  The Southern Responce was *shrug* ok we can play that way to and they started exporting a larger portion of their Agricultural products to Europe, which led to the US congress (under some realy sneaky methods honestly) passing protectionist legislation that was esentialy a 100% export tarrif on cotton (the souths largest cash crop and its most in demand in Europe).

For the CSA to win the US Civil War one of 2 things has to happen.  Either they won fast an example would be pushing to Washington after First Manassas thus ending the war before it realy properly starts (thus protecting what limited industrialization they had already acomplished) or GB has to become involved at some point (Egyptian cotton supplies not paning out could be a cause of this)

Either way by 1900 I can see the CSA in the upper tier of second level powers while the USA would still be in the middle of the top teir of powers.  Effects on the world would look somthing like this.

GB: largely unchanged
Spain: would keep most of her pacific posesions while loosing cuba to the CSA (Spanish Confederate war in place of spanish American) Spain still isnt realy healthy financialy but I think this would put them firmly in the second tier of powers
USA: looses the confederate states (duh) and most of their pacific posesions (USA or GB get Hawaii but USA keeps Alaska)
CSA: Original Southern States, Gains Cuba as mentiond, right before start up aquires Northern Mexican teritories puting them also on both coasts and likley to fit either as the top second tier power or bottom top tier power

[Nobody]

Does anybody else remember this map or rather the empty one it was based on? Look like a choice for me.

Germany: Gives up a little bit to France by splitting the Alcese-Lorraine baby.

• Losses about half of Alcese-Lorraine
  France: Gains a little bit from Germany by splitting the Alcese-Lorraine baby.
  
• Gains about half of Alcese-Lorraine
  

I don't really see the point, the area is tiny and from the game concept point of view not important. If we don't use period correct borders, then I think the best choice would be to make it a neutral country, but in the end I don't really care.


Another question:
What about the overseas possessions and colonies of the other countries?

[Tanthalas]

I remember that map very very well (it was originaly called BIGASSMAP on my system) its the one im curently filling in (well its slightly smaller but still fracking huge brother) *edit* im curently filling it in as OTL circa 1900 per request

Does anybody else remember this map or rather the empty one it was based on? Look like a choice for me.

Germany: Gives up a little bit to France by splitting the Alcese-Lorraine baby.

• Losses about half of Alcese-Lorraine
  France: Gains a little bit from Germany by splitting the Alcese-Lorraine baby.
  
• Gains about half of Alcese-Lorraine
  

I don't really see the point, the area is tiny and from the game concept point of view not important. If we don't use period correct borders, then I think the best choice would be to make it a neutral country, but in the end I don't really care.


Another question:
What about the overseas possessions and colonies of the other countries?

[Tanthalas]

Teh Map, its rough atm (I havnt botherd to fill in all the fiddly little islands and stuff) but I figured it would do for the moment as there will possibly be changes



(just click the thumbnail)

[snip]

That seems right to me.

[Tanthalas]

Like I said I need to fill in ALOT of Islands but thats more detail work than anything (I get a tad OCD on this stuff).  as to North America I can make whatever edits are decided on relitivly easily same with the effect it would have on Spain.

[KWorld]

If France needs a bump upwards, it makes more sense to give them more of India than Alsace.

[Tanthalas]

If France needs a bump upwards, it makes more sense to give them more of India than Alsace.

Looking at the map I dont realy think France needs a bump Teritory wise they are about equal, and if anyone needs a bump we can always donate a bit of the white space to em as a Colony.