USN ships

[KWorld]

A place to stick designs for comment, while we get up to speed.

[KWorld]

This is an alternate Kearsarge: main battery is smaller (12" vs 13") and there's no 8" secondary turrets atop the 13" turrets, but in exchange it has a third 12" twin turret.


USS Kearsarge, USA Battleship laid down 1896

Displacement:
   9,895 t light; 10,474 t standard; 11,196 t normal; 11,774 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (409.84 ft / 400.00 ft) x 72.50 ft x (23.50 / 24.48 ft)
   (124.92 m / 121.92 m) x 22.10 m  x (7.16 / 7.46 m)

Armament:
      6 - 12.00" / 305 mm 35.0 cal guns - 870.01lbs / 394.63kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      14 - 5.00" / 127 mm 40.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 270 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1896 Model
     14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 5.42lbs / 2.46kg shells, 500 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 5,985 lbs / 2,715 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   240.00 ft / 73.15 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   159.98 ft / 48.76 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   12.0" / 305 mm   240.00 ft / 73.15 m   5.00 ft / 1.52 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   17.0" / 432 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   3rd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -         6.00" / 152 mm

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7,614 ihp / 5,680 Kw = 16.00 kts
   Range 4,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,300 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   543 - 707

Cost:
   £0.915 million / $3.662 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 797 tons, 7.1 %
      - Guns: 797 tons, 7.1 %
   Armour: 4,349 tons, 38.8 %
      - Belts: 2,325 tons, 20.8 %
      - Armament: 1,057 tons, 9.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 773 tons, 6.9 %
      - Conning Towers: 194 tons, 1.7 %
   Machinery: 1,269 tons, 11.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,479 tons, 31.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,301 tons, 11.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13,776 lbs / 6,249 Kg = 15.9 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
   Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 14.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.575 / 0.581
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.52 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      11.10 ft / 3.38 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 76.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 20,719 Square feet or 1,925 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 137 lbs/sq ft or 669 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.63
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[KWorld]

And a modified Connecticutt: this ship trades the 8 8" guns for a pair of 12" guns and 2 more 7" guns.

USS Connecticutt, USA Battleship laid down 1903

Displacement:
   12,317 t light; 13,036 t standard; 13,784 t normal; 14,383 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (469.84 ft / 460.00 ft) x 76.00 ft x (24.00 / 24.83 ft)
   (143.21 m / 140.21 m) x 23.16 m  x (7.32 / 7.57 m)

Armament:
      6 - 12.00" / 305 mm 45.0 cal guns - 870.01lbs / 394.63kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1903 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      14 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 164.99lbs / 74.84kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1903 Model
     14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      16 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 13.01lbs / 5.90kg shells, 500 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1903 Model
     16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      16 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 7,738 lbs / 3,510 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   276.00 ft / 84.12 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   183.98 ft / 56.08 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Upper:   12.0" / 305 mm   276.00 ft / 84.12 m   6.00 ft / 1.83 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   3rd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -         6.00" / 152 mm
   4th:   2.00" / 51 mm         -         2.00" / 51 mm

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.50" / 64 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 14.00" / 356 mm, Aft 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,380 ihp / 6,252 Kw = 16.00 kts
   Range 4,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,347 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   635 - 826

Cost:
   £1.221 million / $4.883 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,333 tons, 9.7 %
      - Guns: 1,333 tons, 9.7 %
   Armour: 5,592 tons, 40.6 %
      - Belts: 2,974 tons, 21.6 %
      - Armament: 1,227 tons, 8.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,143 tons, 8.3 %
      - Conning Towers: 248 tons, 1.8 %
   Machinery: 1,251 tons, 9.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,120 tons, 29.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,468 tons, 10.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 21 tons, 0.2 %
      - Hull below water: 21 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17,656 lbs / 8,008 Kg = 20.4 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
   Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 14.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.28

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.575 / 0.580
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.05 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 36 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.18 ft / 4.02 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 24,977 Square feet or 2,320 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 680 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.49
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Miscellaneous weight accounts for 4 submerged beam 18" torpedo tubes and 12 reload 18"/5m torpedoes.

[snip]

I note that both these designs are AQY. I know there is one AQY ship that predates them, but it is far from the common feature that I know it will become. We will have to talk as a communty about what to do about AQY layouts. Untill then, more conventional pre-Dread layouts would be better so redesigns do not need to happen. I also note that we have not yet settled on a starting era, so these ships may be to advanced or to old for when we do kick things off. Overall, I would hold off on starting designs just yet until we have a better idea of what the sim will look like.

[Jefgte]

I agree with Snip
Before 1900 - 2T2x12"
1900 to 1905 - 3T2x12"

Jef

[Delta Force]

Midship turrets seem to be more of a dreadnought feature to me. Perhaps save it for the dreadnought era?

[KWorld]

Harrumph.  So wierd and wacky stacked turrets, that are totally different than anything anyone else built, are OK, and midships centerline turrets aren't?  Fine......  :(


<shrug>  Oh, well.


Here's a dreadnought armored cruiser: think Tennessee (the 10" guns), South Carolina (turret arrangement), Blucher (dreadnought armored cruiser), and Invincible (turbines).

USS Montana, United States Dreadnought armored cruiser laid down 1906

Displacement:
   15,161 t light; 15,844 t standard; 17,679 t normal; 19,146 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (600.00 ft / 600.00 ft) x 75.00 ft x (25.00 / 26.64 ft)
   (182.88 m / 182.88 m) x 22.86 m  x (7.62 / 8.12 m)

Armament:
      8 - 10.00" / 254 mm 45.0 cal guns - 525.01lbs / 238.14kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1906 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      14 - 5.00" / 127 mm 50.0 cal guns - 66.16lbs / 30.01kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 14.29lbs / 6.48kg shells, 300 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 5,241 lbs / 2,377 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   390.00 ft / 118.87 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   209.98 ft / 64.00 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   390.00 ft / 118.87 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.00" / 229 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      9.00" / 229 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm         -         5.00" / 127 mm
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 47,082 shp / 35,123 Kw = 25.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,303 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   766 - 996

Cost:
   £1.429 million / $5.717 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,076 tons, 6.1 %
      - Guns: 1,076 tons, 6.1 %
   Armour: 5,267 tons, 29.8 %
      - Belts: 2,494 tons, 14.1 %
      - Armament: 1,130 tons, 6.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,410 tons, 8.0 %
      - Conning Towers: 234 tons, 1.3 %
   Machinery: 3,330 tons, 18.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,487 tons, 31.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,518 tons, 14.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19,776 lbs / 8,970 Kg = 39.6 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 16.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.559
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  24.00 ft / 7.32 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Forward deck:   35.00 %,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.61 ft / 5.06 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 31,405 Square feet or 2,918 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 133 lbs/sq ft or 651 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.13
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Jefgte]

No sure that you could built this superb Cruiser in 1906
Did you SS with 15000t limit?

Jef

[KWorld]

No sure that you could built this superb Cruiser in 1906
Did you SS with 15000t limit?

There's no 15,000 ton limit historically, no treaty to abide by.  :)

[Jefgte]

There's no 15,000 ton limit historically, no treaty to abide by.

Wait a couple of year... BCs are comming...

;)

[snip]

Once again, I warn that we have yet to pin down starting era or how tech will work. I would hold off on doing to many designs less they not be allowed in the game. Give us a bit of time to pin down that sort of stuff, then let loose with the designs.

[KWorld]

These are sketches, things that may or may not have any "in-game" reality (so if you're a potential enemy, don't start planning your fleet around what you see me doodling here).  So I'm not too worried about them being outmoded by upcoming rules changes.  If I like the designs, I can always use them as a basis for future work.  If I don't.... heh, well, then they're decoys for other people to mistakenly focus on.  :)

[snip]

Then can I move this to the non-game designs forum? Just to ensure game designs are seperate from those that are not in the game. Want to avoid confusion.

[KWorld]

There's no 15,000 ton limit historically, no treaty to abide by.

Wait a couple of year... BCs are comming...

;)

They may well be, and then the USN can go bigger than these, or not.   ;D 

[KWorld]

Then can I move this to the non-game designs forum? Just to ensure game designs are seperate from those that are not in the game. Want to avoid confusion.

<shrug>  You can, doesn't matter to me.  My encyclopedia entry is where I'd expect to find ONLY "real in-game" ships, this is more of the proposals area.