Alliance and New Switzerland Peace Talk Thread...

[miketr]

This thread is to cover the 3rd (attempt at peace for the Great Pacific War of 1907-08).  Also since there is no armistace I assume game and battles move forward.

Parties involved:
--Alliance
----Kingdom of the Netherlands
----Austria
----Deutcher Kaiserreich Brandenburg
----Middle Kingdom
----Nippon
--New Swiss Confederation
--Neutrals
----Iberia
----Gran Columbia

Please no one else post till I have moved all the PM's...  This will take a little bit of time

[miketr]

1. Independence for Australia (inc. Tasmania and Lord Howe Island), one fourth of NS Ffeet

2. Hainan and Formosa to the Middle Kingdom

3. Swiss Neue-Guinea west of (---) to Nippon.

4. Swiss Neue-Guinea east of (---) to DKB.

5. Saipan and Aleutians to Nippon.

6. Swiss Samoa to Nippon.

7. Spratlies and Moloccuas to Austria.

8. Buru and Naturna to Netherlands.

9. $5 in damages to be paid to Firanj.

10. Cancellation of Kra Canal, removal of all Swiss units from Siamese territory.

11. Repairs to Tarakan to be paid by Swiss.

12. NSS Constellation to be assumed by DKB.

13. NSS United States or a battlecruiser to Netherlands.

14. Return of NSS Komodo Dragon to Netherlands.

*****************************************
Common position of the Five Allied Nations, can be passed on the the New Swiss

[miketr]

Reply to 14 Points:

New Switzerland does not understand points (1,2,3,5,6,8,9) enough to come to a decision.

Due to factors outside it's control New SWitzerland can not comply with points (7,10)

New Switzerland is fully able to comply with (11,12,13,14)

OOC: If you want out of the war now is not the time to play games with ship names and the like.  These are surrender terms...

IC:

Iberia's take on the terms are its own and the allies will of course take there own course of actions.  These are suggestions that might be helpful.

Going back down:

14 to 11 have been accepted by New Switzerland.

10. Cancellation of Kra Canal, removal of all Swiss units from Siamese territory.

7. Spratlies and Moloccuas to Austria.

NS: Responce Due to factors outside it's control New SWitzerland can not comply with points (7,10)

Iberia suggest then the New Switerland pull its troops out of Siam and end its support for the Canal Project.  If Siam goes forward on its own that is there own affair.

As to the islands in question it might be helpfull if New Switzerland explained the problem.


NS: New Switzerland does not understand points (1,2,3,5,6,8,9) enough to come to a decision.

1. Independence for Australia (inc. Tasmania and Lord Howe Island), one fourth of NS Ffeet
--Perhaps a plebiscite under neutral oversight to determine the fate of the land in question?

2. Hainan and Formosa to the Middle Kingdom
--Iberia would suggest the surrender of Swiss Forces, Iberia is willing to intern them and Middle Kingdom offer surrender terms to the Republic of China; if RoC fights on that is not a matter for NS.

3. Swiss Neue-Guinea west of (---) to Nippon.

4. Swiss Neue-Guinea east of (---) to DKB.
--These two terms seam very straight forwad the Island is to be split between the DKB and Japan the divide line to be worked out by them.

5. Saipan and Aleutians to Nippon.
--Again this appears very straight forward.  Accept the terms or out right reject them.

6. Swiss Samoa to Nippon.
--Ditto...

8. Buru and Naturna to Netherlands.
--Ditto...

9. $5 in damages to be paid to Firanj.
--Ditto...

[miketr]

OOC Im barganing for a Peace Treaty not a surrender. And I really don't have an NSS Constellation in the navy yet.

Iberia suggest then the New Switerland pull its troops out of Siam and end its support for the Canal Project.  If Siam goes forward on its own that is there own affair.

I have a Treaty with Siam, a Treaty I can not break as it involves Siam as well.

As to the islands in question it might be helpfull if New Switzerland explained the problem.

As part of the Treaty the Spratlys came under joint Siamese/Swiss control.

1. Independence for Australia (inc. Tasmania and Lord Howe Island), one fourth of NS Ffeet
--Perhaps a plebiscite under neutral oversight to determine the fate of the land in question?

Australia is already independant, how can I grant them independance?

3. Swiss Neue-Guinea west of (---) to Nippon.

4. Swiss Neue-Guinea east of (---) to DKB.
--These two terms seam very straight forwad the Island is to be split between the DKB and Japan the divide line to be worked out by them.

5. Saipan and Aleutians to Nippon.
--Again this appears very straight forward.  Accept the terms or out right reject them.

6. Swiss Samoa to Nippon.
--Ditto...

This is Febuary 1st, Japan does not declare war untill the 20th. How can they be part of the treaty then?

8. Buru and Naturna to Netherlands.
--Ditto...

Natuna is already Dutch.

9. $5 in damages to be paid to Firanj.
--Ditto...

New SWitzerland does not know about any such damages.

2. Hainan and Formosa to the Middle Kingdom
--Iberia would suggest the surrender of Swiss Forces, Iberia is willing to intern them and Middle Kingdom offer surrender terms to the Republic of China; if RoC fights on that is not a matter for NS.

The problem is that the army is not Swiss but Chinese. Army units uare under local control while the navy is under Swiss control. I'm willing to grant the RoC full independance (no Swiss involvement at all), but only under an International guarantee of the RoC independance. The people of RoC dont want to be part of the MK, that's why they are there in the first place.

[miketr]

OC: The latest round of messages from allies...
IC: Part of the problem here is that the Allies and New Switzerland are using different... Terminology.  It would be helpful if New Switzerland were to explain the nature of the relationship between it and Australia along with it and the Republic of China.

Also if the Middle Kingdom is willing to accept another nation as a protector for the Republic of China and New Switzerland is willing to withdraw its protection what nation or combination of nations is to assume this role?

Points 11-14 clear. Good.

Now the other ones:
Quote
1. Independence for Australia (inc. Tasmania and Lord Howe Island), one fourth of NS Ffeet

Australia is already independant, how can I grant them independance?
Word games - Soverignity, then

Quote
2. Hainan and Formosa to the Middle Kingdom
The problem is that the army is not Swiss but Chinese. Army units uare under local control while the navy is under Swiss control. I'm willing to grant the RoC full independance (no Swiss involvement at all), but only under an International guarantee of the RoC independance. The people of RoC dont want to be part of the MK, that's why they are there in the first place.

Can be considered - MK wants the Islands to be free of the Swiss; the MK can accept the Islands passing to somebody else; Treaty can include clause on Islands NOT being MK - negotiable



6. Swiss Samoa to Nippon.
--Ditto...
This is Febuary 1st, Japan does not declare war untill the 20th. How can they be part of the treaty then?

7. Spratlies dropped from text.

Simple answer:
No treaty => Nippon joins war against you

Quote
8. Buru and Naturna to Netherlands.
--Ditto...
Natuna is already Dutch.
Buru to Netherlands, recognition of Netherland's soverignity over Natuna - happy?

Quote
9. $5 in damages to be paid to Firanj.
--Ditto...
New SWitzerland does not know about any such damages.

Knowledge not necessary. Just pay up.


Borys

Furthering Borys' comments a bit - DKB perspective -

1 - Australia may be "independent" but its Queen still must bow to the wishes of the parliment in Phoenix. This is an unacceptable situation - full sovereignity (NPC status) for Australia is what is on the table.

5,6 etc. - As the Austrians stated - Japan is ready to make war (and is unoffically already "non-neutral" e.g. assuming occupation duties of Swiss Samoa) - pay up or pay the piper.


And a note requested for Iberia to pass on from the Reich:
The Middle Kingdom has (however grudgingly) agreed that these terms can form an acceptable peace. The Tiger Lady has sworn to utterly exterminate the Swiss should they bother her again. This is the last, best hope for peace with China - and perhaps even for the survival of New Switzerland. The alternative is the Death of 100,000 Cuts. Choose wisely.

[miketr]

Also if the Middle Kingdom is willing to accept another nation as a protector for the Republic of China and New Switzerland is willing to withdraw its protection what nation or combination of nations is to assume this role?

In that scenario, the DKB would suggest that Gran Colombia be offered the opportunity to assume the role as Protector of the Formosan Islands.
(As Brandenburg assuming said duty would likely see the first in-game appearance of lead Zeppelins.  ;) )

[miketr]

Per discussions among the Hohenzollerns and Habsburgs regarding the possibility of a neutral nation "taking custody" of the Republic of China in a peace settlement with NS, it has been agreed that Iberia would be acceptable to the allied powers (at least the H&H ones anyway  ;) ).

[miketr]

Ausrtria has put forward the suggestion of Iberia as a protector for Republic of China.  Iberia is willing to assume this role as long as all other parties agree.

The DKB has put foward the suggestion of Gran Colombia, it might be useful to get the Colombian view point.  As such they have been included in this message and provided with some background.

View Point of New Switzerland on the Republic of China (Hainan and Formosa): "I'm willing to grant the RoC full independance (no Swiss involvement at all), but only under an International guarantee of the RoC independance. The people of RoC dont want to be part of the MK, that's why they are there in the first place."

Alliance Responce:  "Can be considered - MK wants the Islands to be free of the Swiss; the MK can accept the Islands passing to somebody else; Treaty can include clause on Islands NOT being MK - negotiable"

Iberia

OOC do we want to move this to a public thread?

[miketr]

Ausrtria has put forward the suggestion of Iberia as a protector for Republic of China.  Iberia is willing to assume this role as long as all other parties agree.

The DKB has put foward the suggestion of Gran Colombia, it might be useful to get the Colombian view point.  As such they have been included in this message and provided with some background.

View Point of New Switzerland on the Republic of China (Hainan and Formosa): "I'm willing to grant the RoC full independance (no Swiss involvement at all), but only under an International guarantee of the RoC independance. The people of RoC dont want to be part of the MK, that's why they are there in the first place."

Alliance Responce:  "Can be considered - MK wants the Islands to be free of the Swiss; the MK can accept the Islands passing to somebody else; Treaty can include clause on Islands NOT being MK - negotiable"

Iberia

OOC do we want to move this to a public thread?

The point of the MK is that Hainan and Taiwan should be independent, the MK willing to protect them. If they want other protectors that is good, only never the New Swiss demons. The MK would suggest that the Grand Nations appoint two benevolent members to oversee this instead of the MK. And would suggest the islands would open up their harbours for those who have proven to be non-evil.
MK would agree with Iberia to oversee Taiwan and Gran Colombia to oversee Hainan. The Allies should be given Preferred Trade Partner Status on both islands. The MK wishes to be excluded of this, in order to prevent any accusations from the evil ones.

[miketr]

The point of the MK is that Hainan and Taiwan should be independent, the MK willing to protect them. If they want other protectors that is good, only never the New Swiss demons. The MK would suggest that the Grand Nations appoint two benevolent members to oversee this instead of the MK. And would suggest the islands would open up their harbours for those who have proven to be non-evil.
MK would agree with Iberia to oversee Taiwan and Gran Colombia to oversee Hainan. The Allies should be given Preferred Trade Partner Status on both islands. The MK wishes to be excluded of this, in order to prevent any accusations from the evil ones.

Vienna is happy with this.

[miketr]

Being a peace-loving nation, Gran Colombia is open to this suggestion; however, further information on the state of affairs in the area would be necessary:

-Are the two islands to be unified as a single state, or independent states?
-What is the status (IC, BP, Population, destruction, etc.) of the islands?
-What is the perceived function of the "Protector"?

OOC:  Suddenly the DKB's sale of the Cook Islands becomes so much more obvious...

[miketr]

Being a peace-loving nation, Gran Colombia is open to this suggestion; however, further information on the state of affairs in the area would be necessary:

-Are the two islands to be unified as a single state, or independent states?
-What is the status (IC, BP, Population, destruction, etc.) of the islands?
-What is the perceived function of the "Protector"?

OOC:  Suddenly the DKB's sale of the Cook Islands becomes so much more obvious...

1 - Hazy

2 - At game reboot:
Taiwan                     6   1      10      2667   16.00
Hainan                     3   0.5     3      2000   6.00

3 - prevent the Swiss from gobbling them up again

[miketr]

Thats all she wrote, I think...  I left out any PM's I have that were clearly OOC or were in responce to such and as a result there IC / OOC is unclear.  One of those was from Fox were he said he was going to try to draft a responce treaty.

Thread is open for responces...

[Carthaginian]

Question on the status of 'Protector' for reference in all future conflicts?

Does the 'Protector' suddenly gain all the economic benefits of the 'protected' areas as colonies, to do with as they wish? Or are they required to actually PROTECT the territories in question by using their resources only within the borders of the territories to be protected?

It seems a little far-fetched to call something a 'protectorate' and then strip off their resources for endeavors halfway around the world.

[Korpen]

Question on the status of 'Protector' for reference in all future conflicts?

Does the 'Protector' suddenly gain all the economic benefits of the 'protected' areas as colonies, to do with as they wish? Or are they required to actually PROTECT the territories in question by using their resources only within the borders of the territories to be protected?

It seems a little far-fetched to call something a 'protectorate' and then strip off their resources for endeavors halfway around the world.

No the, the protector is simply guaranteeing the independence of the state in question.
A Bit like Iceland & US/NATO.
So protector status does not give any control over how the country use it recourses, directly.

At least that how I understood it.