The question was asked if the Bavarians had a 120mm gun to put on that cruiser.  Looking at Bazhell's work, the answer is no.

The Bavarians seem to have the following weapons :

1906 105mm BL SP, 16.02kg shell, presumably akin to the German 1907 105/45
1907   88mm BL SP,  9.43kg shell , presumably akin to the German 1904 88/35

1907   20" Torpedo
1908   18" Torpedo

Now, as baseline tech I would like to ret-con  the following
Naval Gun Technology 1900 Baseline(0) :
1884 47mm Hotchkiss 5-barrel Anti-TB gun

Anti-aircraft gun and altitudes
Baseline (0):  High angle anti-ballon guns or machine guns (up to 1 pounders) :
1890 Vickers "Pom-Pom" 1-pdr (scaled up Maxim).

If its less than a 8" gun you just "design" it...  Only the larger guns need to be researched...  When you research a given gun tech all the light (sub 8" weapons) are available.

Michael

From the research rules:

Quote
New naval guns and gun mounts must also be developed separately.

Developing a new naval gun takes 2 years and cost $0.5 per six months.
Developing a new naval mount for a specific gun costs $0.5 per six months, and takes as many turns as the number of guns in the mount.
To develop a triple 11" turret would cost a total of $1.5, and would take 18 months.

Guns and gun mounts up to 8" bore diameter cost half as much, $0.25 instead of $0.5.
Single deck/casemate mounts for guns up to 8" bore diameter do not need to be researched.
Guns and gun mounts for the same gun can be researched parallel.
If guns and turrets are built from foreign plans/licence, the development time is halved, with cost per 6 months staying the same.

Maybe Mike is thinking of the mounts, not the guns themselves?

Bavaria could, of course, buy a design from another nation, to cut the time to attain it. I'd personally be in favor of just retconning a 6 inchish gun for Bavaria. That's a Mod Squad decision though, of course.

That contradicts what is stated in research, and I didn't see anything in rules updates that did away with it.

Quote
Guns and gun mounts up to 8" bore diameter cost half as much, $0.25 instead of $0.5.

I don't know what to say any more...  I haven't researched a new light gun and would have if I thought it was needed...

Michael

The French 140's L45 QF guns are a strange duck in a large pond, but as a treaty partner Bavaria can have the plans for that gun.

I have no problems with a 12/13cm gun being researched in the hiatus period.
Borys

I appreciate the offers.  Both the Italian and Habsburg vessels were laid down in 1909, in service 1910, so sometime about 1911 the Bavarians should notice that 105mm guns might be insufficient for future cruisers.  So, I would have time to do the research, but frankly right now I'd rather keep that research money on technologies.   

Besides, I remembered the other reason why I was sinking funds into BC rather than IC- at 12.5 BC (= 1/4 of Bavarias 50 IC), you can research 5 techs/turn, so starting in 1913 will be a perfect time to research such things. 

As for the 140mm tech transfers, I appreciate that offer as well, but (a) the treaty sounded like more of a non-agression pact and (b)I think such tech tranfers should likely wait until Bavaria is "live", not as back history.

In the meantime I will build some more depot ships and minewarfare vessels. I need them anyhow, and it works out timeline wise. The Bavarians only gained the seacoast in 1905 (?), figure a naval academy founded ~1907 when the fleet is forming.  the sail trainer completes 1909, first 'classes' of cadets should be graduating around 1911-12.   

The way I wrote it, the Academy was founded in Autumn 1905. First graduates Commisioned in 1908 or 1909.
Ready for first command of minesweeper/torpedo boat from 1912/14.
But it is up to you ...

Borys

Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on August 22, 2008, 01:52:51 PM
I appreciate the offers.  Both the Italian and Habsburg vessels were laid down in 1909, in service 1910, so sometime about 1911 the Bavarians should notice that 105mm guns might be insufficient for future cruisers.  So, I would have time to do the research, but frankly right now I'd rather keep that research money on technologies.

Look around and take a look at what other countries had in service by 1905-1908. If You are a new country with no design tradition, it makes sense to take a good look around to see what was in fashion.  I suspect very few countries was building cruises with other then 14 or 15cm guns. 

Quote from: Borys on August 22, 2008, 01:57:25 PM
The way I wrote it, the Academy was founded in Autumn 1905. First graduates Commisioned in 1908 or 1909.
Ready for first command of minesweeper/torpedo boat from 1912/14.
But it is up to you ...

Borys

Hmm, missed or failed to recall that. I'm trying to treat your and Bazhell's work as "what happened". 

Korpen- you are correct. I merely had looked at the opfor (Italian DDs), and at what the Bavarians had considered acceptable (12x105mm) not long before.

Quote from: Borys on March 26, 2007, 07:22:47 AM
Triest, Ferbuary 1906

It was simply ... WRONG, crossed Prinzregent Liutpold's mind.
He was standing at attention, saluting, watching the white-and-sky-blue lozegned flag

being raised over the first vessel of the Bavarian NAVY. It was a Torpedoboot, the T-1, an ex-Austrian design, built by the Stablimento Tecnico Trestino. It was commanded by Oberleutnant zur See Baender, from Baden. Who a year ago had been an Enseigne de Vaisseau de 2ème Classe in the Marine National.
Anyway, Bavaria now had a coast and fleet. With 36 officers in it. 6 were Tirolers who chose loyalty to their Heimat over the Oath to the Kaiser in Vienna, and 30 were Schwabs or Schwytz who had previously served in the French Navy. Supposedly this was enough for a "flotilla" of torpedoboats and one or two small cruisers. He glanced at the beaming, fresh faces of the 17 and 18 year old "kadetten", mostly from good Bavarian families, the future of the fleet.

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT - the eardrum bursting fart of the Alpenhorns almost blew his mind. The flag was fluttering in the breeze, and a new part of festivities began.  Five dozen Oberbayerishervolkertanzenverband members, in hats, white shirts and lederhosen, were yodeling and prancing on the pier while the Spiritual Host, led by the bishop of Sankt Galen, was aproaching the T-1 with a bucket of Holy Water.
It was going to be a long day, sighed the Prinzeregent, looking at the reflexes of the sun sprakling on the calm waters of the Golfo di Venezia.

Well, I remember disliking that flag :)  So I must have seen it.
...Even if it was the actual Bavarian flag, I don't happen to care for the pattern!

Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on August 22, 2008, 03:55:45 PM
Well, I remember disliking that flag :)  So I must have seen it.
...Even if it was the actual Bavarian flag, I don't happen to care for the pattern!

Well it has been the flag of Bavaria (or rather, its rulers) since the early 14th century, at the latest...