For:
Excellent fire power to protecting large ships from torpedo boats attack.
Against:
All eggs in one basket. I prefer 3 x 7000t cruisers.

A large light cruiser, but not in the sense you're expecting.


Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1933

Displacement:
   21,009 t light; 21,980 t standard; 23,712 t normal; 25,098 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (803.91 ft / 787.40 ft) x 78.74 ft x (26.25 / 27.41 ft)
   (245.03 m / 240.00 m) x 24.00 m  x (8.00 / 8.35 m)

Armament:
      36 - 5.91" / 150 mm 50.0 cal guns - 109.02lbs / 49.45kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1933 Model
     8 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts - superfiring
     4 x 3-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 400 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
     8 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      16 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.19lbs / 1.90kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 4,485 lbs / 2,034 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   511.81 ft / 156.00 m   16.37 ft / 4.99 m
   Ends:   2.95" / 75 mm   275.56 ft / 83.99 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined 16.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.97" / 50 mm   511.81 ft / 156.00 m   23.33 ft / 7.11 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 59.06 ft / 18.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      5.91" / 150 mm
   2nd:   0.59" / 15 mm   0.12" / 3 mm            -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
   Forecastle: 2.95" / 75 mm  Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 129,702 shp / 96,758 Kw = 32.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,119 tons

Complement:
   955 - 1,242

Cost:
   £8.065 million / $32.261 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,354 tons, 5.7 %
      - Guns: 1,354 tons, 5.7 %
   Armour: 7,292 tons, 30.8 %
      - Belts: 2,386 tons, 10.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 870 tons, 3.7 %
      - Armament: 1,636 tons, 6.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,296 tons, 9.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 105 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 3,779 tons, 15.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,884 tons, 33.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,703 tons, 11.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 700 tons, 3.0 %
      - Hull below water: 50 tons
      - Hull above water: 50 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 250 tons
      - Above deck: 350 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     36,751 lbs / 16,670 Kg = 356.9 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 5.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 16.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.510 / 0.517
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 28.06 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  31.82 ft / 9.70 m,  26.90 ft / 8.20 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  26.90 ft / 8.20 m,  26.90 ft / 8.20 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Average freeboard:      23.36 ft / 7.12 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 188.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 41,689 Square feet or 3,873 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 656 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 0.99
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Shahanan Iskandar was pleased. His Sister seemed radiant with happiness, thrilled to start her new life.  The Aztec Sultan welcoming, the court had been gracious, the ceremony beautiful.  The Aztec cities were well kept and prosperous. There seemed much promise for relations between nations to build on and grow closer, for the prosperity of both.

The Aztec fleet was impressive, and the Wilno squadron's presence as well as that of  others was also appreciated, but he was particularly pleased as the Parthian contribution gave a long salute. Refitted and painted prior to the journey, the visual appearance of the vessels, a grey with forest green trim, steaming in order with their pennants all flying was excellent. The salute, sounding in time like a metronome,  starting with the mid-weight guns of the cruiser-carrier, followed by the armored cruisers, and then the heavy guns of the battlewagons, rippled down the line, one hundred guns in all, thundering their salute of the marriage.

The departure of the fleet started a languid journey.

The first call was not far. The islanders called it Caguay, and it had a fine bay as a harbor (Kingston, Jamaica), rebuilt on the inland side of the bay, the old unstable townsite (Port Royal) on the peninsula having been rejected for development. While that town had been favored by merchants, smugglers and pirates, the islanders told of earthquakes and waves causing devastation. Even the Taino did not know how long they were there, but the Mali merchants had wrested the harbor from them five centuries ago,  planting sugar cane as a cash crop and importing captured workers. (the N7 version of the triangle trade). Those plantations had collapsed when political unrest in the Caribbean and reformation of the fields in Laksmanavati had disrupted and eventually destroyed the trade. The petty states of the Caribbean that arose afterward had been a renowned location for merchants who also opportunistically posed as smugglers or even pirates.  The island held an excellent position in the Caribbean, ably located for servicing the needs of the Parthian mercantile marine operating in the Mericas. The opening of the Trans-Erica canal had been beneficial, as the excellent harbor served as a convenient port of call or shelter for the increased mercantile traffic.

The fleet anchored in the bay, nets out, pickets posted, sweeps active. The harbor mouth was closely guarded by 120mm guns, and airstrips provided aerial patrol, but a certain paranoia reduces the chance of unpleasant surprises.  Despite the garrison and fortifications, it was recognized that if the Mayans chose to they could try to seize it. The Parthians felt such an attempt would pose an excellent chance to catch the Mayan fleet at the open sea. If the Mayans sent insufficient force, the Atlantic fleet could intervene, but that would almost certainly be a trap. So the plan was to fight from Liere and  catch the Mayans away from their bases while the Expeditionary fleet came.

The formal port call only took a couple days, before the fleet could set forth for Liere (Trinadad).

Kobra class, Byzantine Empire D14 laid down 1930

1930 => D177 - D178 - D179 - D180 - D181 - D182
1931 => D183 - D184 - D185 - D186 - D187 - D188
1932 => D189 - D190 - D191 - D192

Displacement:
   1 500 t light; 1 578 t standard; 1 861 t normal; 2 088 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (384,37 ft / 380,58 ft) x 35,40 ft x (11,79 / 12,74 ft)
   (117,15 m / 116,00 m) x 10,79 m  x (3,60 / 3,88 m)

Armament:
      4 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 50,00lbs / 22,68kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 39,0 cal guns - 2,01lbs / 0,91kg shells, 2 000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 39,0 cal guns - 2,01lbs / 0,91kg shells, 2 000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts
      4 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm 62,0 cal guns - 0,07lbs / 0,03kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck forward
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 216 lbs / 98 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0,24" / 6 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0,24" / 6 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,24" / 6 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 35 450 shp / 26 445 Kw = 32,28 kts
   Range 10 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 510 tons

Complement:
   141 - 184

Cost:
   £0,810 million / $3,241 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 41 tons, 2,2 %
      - Guns: 41 tons, 2,2 %
   Armour: 4 tons, 0,2 %
      - Armament: 4 tons, 0,2 %
   Machinery: 930 tons, 50,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 441 tons, 23,7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 361 tons, 19,4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 85 tons, 4,6 %
      - Hull above water: 4 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 52 tons
      - Above deck: 29 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     540 lbs / 245 Kg = 10,2 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,28
   Metacentric height 1,7 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 11,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,17
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,11

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,410 / 0,426
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,51 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   18,00 %,  21,49 ft / 6,55 m,  16,73 ft / 5,10 m
      - Forward deck:   33,00 %,  16,73 ft / 5,10 m,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m
      - Aft deck:   33,00 %,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m,  11,48 ft / 3,50 m
      - Quarter deck:   16,00 %,  11,48 ft / 3,50 m,  11,81 ft / 3,60 m
      - Average freeboard:      13,99 ft / 4,26 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 168,9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149,8 %
   Waterplane Area: 8 343 Square feet or 775 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 79 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 150 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 1,19
      - Overall: 0,54
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

AD
4t for1924 top mast rangefinder
25t for LR marconi
OD
24t for 2x3TTx533HW
15t for enhanced hydrophonne
6t for 30x195 DC
11t reserved for new material, paravanes, armament, minen.
AW
Climatisation

Trial speed: 33 kts
Bonus: 0.72

So I was up for watching TV and playing with the Naval Artillery tool,
but not for reading/digesting/ and replying to the carrier discussion.

The following table might be a little hard to understand...at least in the preview the columns are all offset.
the key part is the middle with the KG Short and Shortfall columns.

The KG short is the shortfall between the N7 max allowed shell weight, and the historical
weights. As you can see, there really is not a shortfall.

the Shortfall is just the ME needed for the historical gun, vs. the ME provided on the chart.

I was only looking at the last generation of Pre-WWII guns,
with the Italian and French being earlier in the 1930s.

There seems to be a consistent shortfall for guns over 12"
of roughly 83% of the ME they should have.
0.83 * 1.2 = 0.996

That is consistent with my having noted that the current 12"- MR numbers seem "high"

In My Opinion :
A 1937 tech allowing 20% more ME for guns of 311mm+ seems in order.
A 1942 tech would then add Automatic for guns 210mm -




        Historic                                        Navalism 7                   
        KG    LBS            Date of Design                            KG    Lbs           
Gun    Cal    Shell        MV    ME            KG short    Shortfall        Actual Cal    max cal    Max Shell +20%        ME    MV   
USN 16"    50    1227    2700    739    7886    1939        99%    83%        50    60    1221    2686    6550    673   
USN 16"    45    1227    2700    701    7100    1936        99%    83%        45    60    1221    2686    5895    639   
USN 14" mk11    50    682    1500    823    5470.5    1937        110%    86%        50    60    753    1656    4725    728   
12    50    518    1140    762    3562.5    1939        99%    105%        50    60    515.1    1133    3750    859   
RN 16    45    1080    2375    747    7139.5    1938        113%    83%        45    60    1221    2686    5895    639   
                                                                   

On the bright side, I had so many refits and reconstructions in 1932.1 that I did 1932.2 as well to ensure I could pay for everything.
Of course, once all the Destroyer -> TB refurbishments are done,
I'll have to redo all my destroyer / MTB / Coast guard squadron allocations...in 1933.1.

20 October 1931

"I'm confused," the Minister of Defence said as he lit his pipe.  "You want [$9] to spend on a ship to test a gun you don't think will work?"

"That's correct," The Admiral of the Navy nodded.

"Explain, if you would?"

The Admiral said, "We build monitors to test new capital ship guns, as a means of working out the kinks with the guns before the actual fleet units come into service, but also so that we can observe any issues with the gun's design parameters on the vessel around it.  This is why we have Szczyt, Attakulla, and Zugspitze in service today."

"I take it those are monitors?"

"Those are monitors, yes," the admiral confirmed.  This new minister was relatively new in the portfolio and not especially fast to pick up on the subject matter.  "Zugspitze was built to test a 450mm gun," he held his hands apart by a similar distance.  "Each shell weighs more than your automobile.  And to shoot those shells, the gun itself uses a tremendous amount of energy."

"Okay."

"We found that the gun was on the upper end of what we could safely operate aboard a ship.  The blast wrecks nearby fittings and concusses unprotected crew within a certain distance.  Well, Minister, the estimates for the 500mm gun," and he held his hands up again, "suggest the muzzle energy for this weapon would be double* that of the 450mm gun."

The minister furrowed his brow. 

"Too powerful," the admiral explained.  "Not a word I would use lightly, but that is, I think the likely outcome of test-firing."

"Then why build a ship to even test it?  Why not just place on in a field and stake out goats at a distance?"

The admiral blinked.  "It's been a while since we've tested in that manner.  The answer to that is:  The gun's manufacturer is highly connected within your party and in others in your coalition.  He is lobbying hard for our next generation of capital ships to be armed with the 500mm.  I, personally, do not want ships with that weapon for their armament.  But I need tangible evidence that it will not be suitable.  Dead goats would not do.  I need a wrecked ship."

"How mercenary of you," the minister said.  "Have you considered that the manufacturer might be connected with me?"

"Absolutely," the admiral replied.  "I would be surprised if they have not called on you already.  Nonetheless, I'm doing what I think necessary."

"Very good of you to do so," the minister said.  "Very good indeed.  Do consider the possibility of a more affordable platform, if that can be arranged.  It might be an easier sales job for me."


*No, I did not research this, and it's possible the admiral didn't either.

No worries.   Been the same.  Hopefully this upcoming hy will be more active for me.

I could built 27kts TGB to work with 27kts colonial cruisers.

Prince class, Byzantine Empire TGB720 laid down 1932-33-34

Displacement:
    720 t light; 776 t standard; 864 t normal; 935 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
    (259,03 ft / 255,91 ft) x 26,25 ft x (10,38 / 10,96 ft)
    (78,95 m / 78,00 m) x 8,00 m  x (3,16 / 3,34 m)

Armament:
      4 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 50,00lbs / 22,68kg shells, 220 per gun
      Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model
      2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 39,0 cal guns - 2,01lbs / 0,91kg shells, 2 000 per gun
      Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
      2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
        2 raised mounts
      2 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 39,0 cal guns - 2,01lbs / 0,91kg shells, 2 000 per gun
      Anti-air guns in deck mount, 1932 Model
      1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck aft
      4 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm 62,0 cal guns - 0,07lbs / 0,03kg shells, 4 000 per gun
      Machine guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
      2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck forward
        2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 212 lbs / 96 kg

Armour:
  - Gun armour:    Face (max)    Other gunhouse (avg)    Barbette/hoist (max)
    Main:    0,39" / 10 mm          -                  -
    2nd:    0,24" / 6 mm          -                  -
    3rd:    0,24" / 6 mm          -                  -
    4th:    0,24" / 6 mm          -                  -

Machinery:
    Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
    Geared drive, 2 shafts, 13 200 shp / 9 847 Kw = 27,04 kts
    Range 5 000nm at 12,00 kts
    Bunker at max displacement = 159 tons

Complement:
    79 - 103

Cost:
    £0,396 million / $1,585 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
    Armament: 40 tons, 4,6 %
      - Guns: 40 tons, 4,6 %
    Armour: 4 tons, 0,4 %
      - Armament: 4 tons, 0,4 %
    Machinery: 365 tons, 42,2 %
    Hull, fittings & equipment: 263 tons, 30,4 %
    Fuel, ammunition & stores: 144 tons, 16,7 %
    Miscellaneous weights: 49 tons, 5,7 %
      - On freeboard deck: 45 tons
      - Above deck: 4 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
    Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
      387 lbs / 175 Kg = 7,3 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
    Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,14
    Metacentric height 0,9 ft / 0,3 m
    Roll period: 11,9 seconds
    Steadiness    - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
            - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,47
    Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,16

Hull form characteristics:
    Hull has a flush deck,
      a normal bow and a cruiser stern
    Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,434 / 0,444
    Length to Beam Ratio: 9,75 : 1
    'Natural speed' for length: 16,00 kts
    Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
    Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
    Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
    Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
    Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
                Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:    18,00 %,  17,72 ft / 5,40 m,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m
      - Forward deck:    33,00 %,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m,  10,83 ft / 3,30 m
      - Aft deck:    33,00 %,  10,83 ft / 3,30 m,  9,51 ft / 2,90 m
      - Quarter deck:    16,00 %,  9,51 ft / 2,90 m,  10,17 ft / 3,10 m
      - Average freeboard:        11,93 ft / 3,64 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
    Space    - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 151,8 %
        - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116,3 %
    Waterplane Area: 4 230 Square feet or 393 Square metres
    Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
    Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 158 Kg/sq metre
    Hull strength (Relative):
        - Cross-sectional: 0,64
        - Longitudinal: 3,08
        - Overall: 0,75
    Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
    Adequate accommodation and workspace room
    Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

AD
Short Marconi
4t for top fire control
OD
12t for 1x4TTx533
15t for enhanced hydrophone
6t for 30x195kg DC
2t for paravanes
10t reserve for new armament, material, minen
AW
Climatisation