Kobra class, Byzantine Empire D14 laid down 1930

1930 => D177 - D178 - D179 - D180 - D181 - D182
1931 => D183 - D184 - D185 - D186 - D187 - D188
1932 => D189 - D190 - D191 - D192

Displacement:
   1 500 t light; 1 578 t standard; 1 861 t normal; 2 088 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (384,37 ft / 380,58 ft) x 35,40 ft x (11,79 / 12,74 ft)
   (117,15 m / 116,00 m) x 10,79 m  x (3,60 / 3,88 m)

Armament:
      4 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 50,00lbs / 22,68kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 39,0 cal guns - 2,01lbs / 0,91kg shells, 2 000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 39,0 cal guns - 2,01lbs / 0,91kg shells, 2 000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts
      4 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm 62,0 cal guns - 0,07lbs / 0,03kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck forward
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 216 lbs / 98 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0,24" / 6 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0,24" / 6 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,24" / 6 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 35 450 shp / 26 445 Kw = 32,28 kts
   Range 10 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 510 tons

Complement:
   141 - 184

Cost:
   £0,810 million / $3,241 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 41 tons, 2,2 %
      - Guns: 41 tons, 2,2 %
   Armour: 4 tons, 0,2 %
      - Armament: 4 tons, 0,2 %
   Machinery: 930 tons, 50,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 441 tons, 23,7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 361 tons, 19,4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 85 tons, 4,6 %
      - Hull above water: 4 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 52 tons
      - Above deck: 29 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     540 lbs / 245 Kg = 10,2 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,28
   Metacentric height 1,7 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 11,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,17
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,11

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,410 / 0,426
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,51 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   18,00 %,  21,49 ft / 6,55 m,  16,73 ft / 5,10 m
      - Forward deck:   33,00 %,  16,73 ft / 5,10 m,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m
      - Aft deck:   33,00 %,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m,  11,48 ft / 3,50 m
      - Quarter deck:   16,00 %,  11,48 ft / 3,50 m,  11,81 ft / 3,60 m
      - Average freeboard:      13,99 ft / 4,26 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 168,9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149,8 %
   Waterplane Area: 8 343 Square feet or 775 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 79 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 150 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 1,19
      - Overall: 0,54
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

AD
4t for1924 top mast rangefinder
25t for LR marconi
OD
24t for 2x3TTx533HW
15t for enhanced hydrophonne
6t for 30x195 DC
11t reserved for new material, paravanes, armament, minen.
AW
Climatisation

Trial speed: 33 kts
Bonus: 0.72

So I was up for watching TV and playing with the Naval Artillery tool,
but not for reading/digesting/ and replying to the carrier discussion.

The following table might be a little hard to understand...at least in the preview the columns are all offset.
the key part is the middle with the KG Short and Shortfall columns.

The KG short is the shortfall between the N7 max allowed shell weight, and the historical
weights. As you can see, there really is not a shortfall.

the Shortfall is just the ME needed for the historical gun, vs. the ME provided on the chart.

I was only looking at the last generation of Pre-WWII guns,
with the Italian and French being earlier in the 1930s.

There seems to be a consistent shortfall for guns over 12"
of roughly 83% of the ME they should have.
0.83 * 1.2 = 0.996

That is consistent with my having noted that the current 12"- MR numbers seem "high"

In My Opinion :
A 1937 tech allowing 20% more ME for guns of 311mm+ seems in order.
A 1942 tech would then add Automatic for guns 210mm -




        Historic                                        Navalism 7                   
        KG    LBS            Date of Design                            KG    Lbs           
Gun    Cal    Shell        MV    ME            KG short    Shortfall        Actual Cal    max cal    Max Shell +20%        ME    MV   
USN 16"    50    1227    2700    739    7886    1939        99%    83%        50    60    1221    2686    6550    673   
USN 16"    45    1227    2700    701    7100    1936        99%    83%        45    60    1221    2686    5895    639   
USN 14" mk11    50    682    1500    823    5470.5    1937        110%    86%        50    60    753    1656    4725    728   
12    50    518    1140    762    3562.5    1939        99%    105%        50    60    515.1    1133    3750    859   
RN 16    45    1080    2375    747    7139.5    1938        113%    83%        45    60    1221    2686    5895    639   
                                                                   

On the bright side, I had so many refits and reconstructions in 1932.1 that I did 1932.2 as well to ensure I could pay for everything.
Of course, once all the Destroyer -> TB refurbishments are done,
I'll have to redo all my destroyer / MTB / Coast guard squadron allocations...in 1933.1.

20 October 1931

"I'm confused," the Minister of Defence said as he lit his pipe.  "You want [$9] to spend on a ship to test a gun you don't think will work?"

"That's correct," The Admiral of the Navy nodded.

"Explain, if you would?"

The Admiral said, "We build monitors to test new capital ship guns, as a means of working out the kinks with the guns before the actual fleet units come into service, but also so that we can observe any issues with the gun's design parameters on the vessel around it.  This is why we have Szczyt, Attakulla, and Zugspitze in service today."

"I take it those are monitors?"

"Those are monitors, yes," the admiral confirmed.  This new minister was relatively new in the portfolio and not especially fast to pick up on the subject matter.  "Zugspitze was built to test a 450mm gun," he held his hands apart by a similar distance.  "Each shell weighs more than your automobile.  And to shoot those shells, the gun itself uses a tremendous amount of energy."

"Okay."

"We found that the gun was on the upper end of what we could safely operate aboard a ship.  The blast wrecks nearby fittings and concusses unprotected crew within a certain distance.  Well, Minister, the estimates for the 500mm gun," and he held his hands up again, "suggest the muzzle energy for this weapon would be double* that of the 450mm gun."

The minister furrowed his brow. 

"Too powerful," the admiral explained.  "Not a word I would use lightly, but that is, I think the likely outcome of test-firing."

"Then why build a ship to even test it?  Why not just place on in a field and stake out goats at a distance?"

The admiral blinked.  "It's been a while since we've tested in that manner.  The answer to that is:  The gun's manufacturer is highly connected within your party and in others in your coalition.  He is lobbying hard for our next generation of capital ships to be armed with the 500mm.  I, personally, do not want ships with that weapon for their armament.  But I need tangible evidence that it will not be suitable.  Dead goats would not do.  I need a wrecked ship."

"How mercenary of you," the minister said.  "Have you considered that the manufacturer might be connected with me?"

"Absolutely," the admiral replied.  "I would be surprised if they have not called on you already.  Nonetheless, I'm doing what I think necessary."

"Very good of you to do so," the minister said.  "Very good indeed.  Do consider the possibility of a more affordable platform, if that can be arranged.  It might be an easier sales job for me."


*No, I did not research this, and it's possible the admiral didn't either.

No worries.   Been the same.  Hopefully this upcoming hy will be more active for me.

I could built 27kts TGB to work with 27kts colonial cruisers.

Prince class, Byzantine Empire TGB720 laid down 1932-33-34

Displacement:
    720 t light; 776 t standard; 864 t normal; 935 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
    (259,03 ft / 255,91 ft) x 26,25 ft x (10,38 / 10,96 ft)
    (78,95 m / 78,00 m) x 8,00 m  x (3,16 / 3,34 m)

Armament:
      4 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 50,00lbs / 22,68kg shells, 220 per gun
      Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model
      2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 39,0 cal guns - 2,01lbs / 0,91kg shells, 2 000 per gun
      Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
      2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
        2 raised mounts
      2 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 39,0 cal guns - 2,01lbs / 0,91kg shells, 2 000 per gun
      Anti-air guns in deck mount, 1932 Model
      1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck aft
      4 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm 62,0 cal guns - 0,07lbs / 0,03kg shells, 4 000 per gun
      Machine guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
      2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck forward
        2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 212 lbs / 96 kg

Armour:
  - Gun armour:    Face (max)    Other gunhouse (avg)    Barbette/hoist (max)
    Main:    0,39" / 10 mm          -                  -
    2nd:    0,24" / 6 mm          -                  -
    3rd:    0,24" / 6 mm          -                  -
    4th:    0,24" / 6 mm          -                  -

Machinery:
    Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
    Geared drive, 2 shafts, 13 200 shp / 9 847 Kw = 27,04 kts
    Range 5 000nm at 12,00 kts
    Bunker at max displacement = 159 tons

Complement:
    79 - 103

Cost:
    £0,396 million / $1,585 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
    Armament: 40 tons, 4,6 %
      - Guns: 40 tons, 4,6 %
    Armour: 4 tons, 0,4 %
      - Armament: 4 tons, 0,4 %
    Machinery: 365 tons, 42,2 %
    Hull, fittings & equipment: 263 tons, 30,4 %
    Fuel, ammunition & stores: 144 tons, 16,7 %
    Miscellaneous weights: 49 tons, 5,7 %
      - On freeboard deck: 45 tons
      - Above deck: 4 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
    Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
      387 lbs / 175 Kg = 7,3 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
    Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,14
    Metacentric height 0,9 ft / 0,3 m
    Roll period: 11,9 seconds
    Steadiness    - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
            - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,47
    Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,16

Hull form characteristics:
    Hull has a flush deck,
      a normal bow and a cruiser stern
    Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,434 / 0,444
    Length to Beam Ratio: 9,75 : 1
    'Natural speed' for length: 16,00 kts
    Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
    Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
    Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
    Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
    Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
                Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:    18,00 %,  17,72 ft / 5,40 m,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m
      - Forward deck:    33,00 %,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m,  10,83 ft / 3,30 m
      - Aft deck:    33,00 %,  10,83 ft / 3,30 m,  9,51 ft / 2,90 m
      - Quarter deck:    16,00 %,  9,51 ft / 2,90 m,  10,17 ft / 3,10 m
      - Average freeboard:        11,93 ft / 3,64 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
    Space    - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 151,8 %
        - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116,3 %
    Waterplane Area: 4 230 Square feet or 393 Square metres
    Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
    Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 158 Kg/sq metre
    Hull strength (Relative):
        - Cross-sectional: 0,64
        - Longitudinal: 3,08
        - Overall: 0,75
    Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
    Adequate accommodation and workspace room
    Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

AD
Short Marconi
4t for top fire control
OD
12t for 1x4TTx533
15t for enhanced hydrophone
6t for 30x195kg DC
2t for paravanes
10t reserve for new armament, material, minen
AW
Climatisation

Sorry folks, haven't been gone, but have been busy & tired, so wasn't doing much here.
Plenty I want to do, but energy has been lacking..
-KPOD

Testing a 8000t HMS Sheffield

4T3x152/50, Byzantine Empire 8000t-32kts laid down 1933

Displacement:
   8 000 t light; 8 425 t standard; 9 384 t normal; 10 152 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (574,11 ft / 570,87 ft) x 62,01 ft x (19,33 / 20,49 ft)
   (174,99 m / 174,00 m) x 18,90 m  x (5,89 / 6,25 m)

Armament:
      12 - 5,98" / 152 mm 50,0 cal guns - 111,99lbs / 50,80kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1933 Model
     4 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 4,02" / 102 mm 45,0 cal guns - 33,00lbs / 14,97kg shells, 340 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1933 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      16 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 39,0 cal guns - 2,01lbs / 0,91kg shells, 2 000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
     8 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      16 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm 62,0 cal guns - 0,07lbs / 0,03kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
     8 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1 641 lbs / 744 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3,94" / 100 mm   379,63 ft / 115,71 m   9,45 ft / 2,88 m
   Ends:   1,18" / 30 mm   191,21 ft / 58,28 m   9,45 ft / 2,88 m
     Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3,94" / 100 mm   0,98" / 25 mm      1,97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,24" / 6 mm         -               -
   5th:   0,24" / 6 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1,57" / 40 mm
   Forecastle: 0,98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3,94" / 100 mm, Aft 2,76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 82 550 shp / 61 582 Kw = 32,00 kts
   Range 13 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 726 tons

Complement:
   476 - 619

Cost:
   £3,720 million / $14,881 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 486 tons, 5,2 %
      - Guns: 486 tons, 5,2 %
   Armour: 1 439 tons, 15,3 %
      - Belts: 660 tons, 7,0 %
      - Armament: 71 tons, 0,8 %
      - Armour Deck: 644 tons, 6,9 %
      - Conning Towers: 64 tons, 0,7 %
   Machinery: 2 405 tons, 25,6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 425 tons, 36,5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 384 tons, 14,7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 245 tons, 2,6 %
      - Hull below water: 40 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 120 tons
      - Above deck: 85 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10 745 lbs / 4 874 Kg = 100,3 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 1,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,08
   Metacentric height 2,8 ft / 0,9 m
   Roll period: 15,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,47
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,03

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,480 / 0,490
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,21 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,89 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   17,25 %,  26,41 ft / 8,05 m,  21,33 ft / 6,50 m
      - Forward deck:   33,25 %,  21,33 ft / 6,50 m,  17,55 ft / 5,35 m
      - Aft deck:   33,25 %,  17,55 ft / 5,35 m,  16,73 ft / 5,10 m
      - Quarter deck:   16,25 %,  16,73 ft / 5,10 m,  16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Average freeboard:      18,89 ft / 5,76 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101,8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 169,6 %
   Waterplane Area: 23 165 Square feet or 2 152 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 504 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,36
      - Overall: 1,00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

AD
25t for Long Range Marconi
53t for top mast rangefinder - FC1924
OD
32t for 2x4TTx21" HW
45t for 2 seaplanes + cata
43t reserved for new armament, materials, minen...
AW
Climatisatisation
BW
40t for additionnal pumps

130 DP has too low rate of fire in AA use. The lower calibers are much better (114 for Byzantium).
130 DP is excellent against light units: CL, DD, TB, MTB.
I think 4T2x130DP + 24x50 AA is correct for 1933.
=> Provide weight reserve to increase the number by 50 in a few years.

Can't quite settle on the secondary/tertiary armament for the 1933 armored cruser.

The class is 98% identical to the 1929 Rajtar class, so 21,000 t, 8x250mm, 32 knots.  The Rajtars had 12x130mm QF and 6x1 100mm AA.  As with the Rajtars, they're envisioned as high-seas cruiser-killers, but may also find themselves screening carriers in due course.  Environments would range from nice, sunny Caribbean waters to foggy, stormy North Seas.

Engine weights will decrease enough that I can get a bit more firepower in, either:

1)  Go to 8x2 130mm DP, with 50mm AA back up. 
2)  Stick with 6x2 130mm QF or DP, with 5x2 or 6x2 100mm AA as well. 

I have limited historical practice to fall back on for this size and date of ship.  The smaller Deutschlands had a mixed battery, the larger Dunkerques went with a (crappy) DP battery. My own 1931 battleship class has retained a mixed battery.

My inclination at this point is that the navy's starting to get a sense that the 130mm DP is maybe a bit too heavy for AA use, so will hedge its bets and go with a mixed battery.  That probably means I start developing a lighter DP gun in the 115-125mm range in 1933...though I suppose I could have that type in service in time to refit to the 1933 cruiser.