Japanese Ship Designs 1915+

[Kaiser Kirk]

Listing them as Misc Wt and paying 2x tonnage so they are on deck means they can be launched from the ship in a combat condition.
At that point, I consider them a torpedo delivery system just like a torpedo carrying seaplane.
At that point they become armament and are subject to the 2% rule.

If you want to list 80t - Cargo - MTB storage - you're fine.
But you won't be able to lower them into the water and send them off to attack without stopping at one of your own provinces first.

[Desertfox]

So if the ship launches landing craft filled with troops on an amphib assault -> auxiliary, but if the ship launches the same landing craft now with torpedoes -> warship...?

What about my current auxiliaries that can now carry MTBs without any modification at all?

[snip]

Under the rules as written, ships launching landing craft would technically be covered under deployment points and are therefor unrequired to be simmed. Whether adding this capability to a simmed ship alters how it is accounted for is up to Kirk.

[Kaiser Kirk]

So if the ship launches landing craft filled with troops on an amphib assault -> auxiliary, but if the ship launches the same landing craft now with torpedoes -> warship...?

What about my current auxiliaries that can now carry MTBs without any modification at all?

You keep focusing on 'warship'

I keep pointing to the 2% rule.

You have to satisfy both.
The proposed vessel does not do so.

Landing craft are fluff, and close to irrelevant. Which I've said before.   They have virtually no naval combat ability beyond possibly an MG or ramming. They are not armament.
If your current auxiliaries load MTBs they will presumably be in violation of the 2% rule. So they should stick to the landing craft.

[Desertfox]

So if I where to load them up with MTBs at Point A and then drop them off at Point B, that would be ok, provided Point B is a location I control, and not say a location of an enemy harbor where they could stage a combat strike? I can live with that, that was the intent of this ship in the first place.

[Kaiser Kirk]

So if I where to load them up with MTBs at Point A and then drop them off at Point B, that would be ok, provided Point B is a location I control, and not say a location of an enemy harbor where they could stage a combat strike? I can live with that, that was the intent of this ship in the first place.

If they are listed as cargo, even deck cargo...which is cheaper tonnage wise.
The current way they are specified is what is making me term them armament, as it provides for their use.
Kinda the difference between shipping a 5" M&H as cargo, and bolting on the deck.

I will reiterate, you can simply assume your nation has cargo vessels with sufficient hold size to transport them. You do not need to specify a vessel for that.

[Desertfox]

Updated the Surabaya design, only one planned now, primarily to provide fire support in colonial situations.

Surabaya, Japan Colonial Gunboat laid down 1915

Displacement:
   2,100 t light; 2,278 t standard; 2,442 t normal; 2,573 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (300.00 ft / 300.00 ft) x 49.00 ft x (11.40 / 11.86 ft)
   (91.44 m / 91.44 m) x 14.94 m  x (3.47 / 3.62 m)

Armament:
      4 - 8.00" / 203 mm 45.0 cal guns - 258.18lbs / 117.11kg shells, 140 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1915 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      8 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm 45.0 cal guns - 4.03lbs / 1.83kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     4 x Quintuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,585 lbs / 719 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   0.50" / 13 mm   100.00 ft / 30.48 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      4.00" / 102 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7,607 shp / 5,675 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 5,400nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 294 tons

Complement:
   173 - 225

Cost:
   £0.345 million / $1.381 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 327 tons, 13.4 %
      - Guns: 327 tons, 13.4 %
   Armour: 414 tons, 16.9 %
      - Belts: 192 tons, 7.9 %
      - Armament: 98 tons, 4.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 108 tons, 4.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 16 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 288 tons, 11.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 992 tons, 40.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 341 tons, 14.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 80 tons, 3.3 %
      - On freeboard deck: 20 tons
      - Above deck: 60 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,311 lbs / 1,502 Kg = 12.9 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
   Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 13.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.510 / 0.516
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.12 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   45.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   10.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.90 ft / 3.32 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 108.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 9,884 Square feet or 918 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 88 lbs/sq ft or 431 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.95
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

35t - FC
25t - LR Wireless
20t - Observation Balloon

[Desertfox]

A refit of the Chikumas. Fire control added, 3" guns swapped out for 2" rotaries, torpedoes upgraded to 21" triples. Extra boats and marine accommodations removed. Extra wireless, observation balloon, flagship/SIGINT facilities, and liaison officer accommodations added.

Designed primarily to be a liaison cruiser, to allow for greater integration between the Japanese fleet and an allied (ie Aztec) fleet. Secondary missions include colonial flagship, signals intelligence (SIGINT) collection platform, raiding, and diplomatic dispatch. 

Chikuma class, Japan Cruiser laid down 1903

Displacement:
   4,000 t light; 4,190 t standard; 4,760 t normal; 5,216 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (402.47 ft / 400.00 ft) x 49.00 ft x (17.00 / 18.22 ft)
   (122.67 m / 121.92 m) x 14.94 m  x (5.18 / 5.55 m)

Armament:
      2 - 8.00" / 203 mm 45.0 cal guns - 258.18lbs / 117.11kg shells, 170 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1903 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1903 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm 45.0 cal guns - 4.03lbs / 1.83kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1903 Model
     4 x Triple mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,069 lbs / 485 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   352.00 ft / 107.29 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 135 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      4.00" / 102 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 1.00" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11,954 ihp / 8,918 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,026 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   286 - 372

Cost:
   £0.462 million / $1.846 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 231 tons, 4.9 %
      - Guns: 231 tons, 4.9 %
   Armour: 689 tons, 14.5 %
      - Belts: 277 tons, 5.8 %
      - Armament: 48 tons, 1.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 358 tons, 7.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 6 tons, 0.1 %
   Machinery: 1,760 tons, 37.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,130 tons, 23.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 760 tons, 16.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 190 tons, 4.0 %
      - On freeboard deck: 140 tons
      - Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,581 lbs / 1,171 Kg = 10.1 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.52
   Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 11.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.21
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.32

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.511
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.16 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.48 ft / 3.19 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 135.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 87.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 13,059 Square feet or 1,213 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 93 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 67 lbs/sq ft or 325 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 1.02
      - Overall: 0.90
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

50t - 2 x LR Wireless
20t - 6 x 21" Torpedo Tubes
20t - Observation balloon
50t - Flagship/SIGINT Facilities
30t - Liaison Officer Accommodations
20t - Fire Control

[snip]

Eh, to slow at 21knts to be worth it. Maybe just to one of them when you EoL scrap the other three.

[Jefgte]

Update to 23-24 Kts would be better ...
Or reuse all 8 x 203 turrets and build modern cruisers with these turrets,
with higher speed, better armor...

[The Rock Doctor]

What's the cost? 

[Desertfox]

Just 400t and $0.4 for all 4. Just rearranging 100t of misc weight per ship.

[TacCovert4]

For that price, and considering it's a 'station ship' and not a 'cruiser' by designation....I'd call the refit to be ok.  It gives a locale an increased spotting ability, and the existing guns are sufficient to fend off anything short of a proper cruiser.

[The Rock Doctor]

Yeah, it's not going to set the world on fire but it's good value for money.

[Desertfox]

With Japan now having two major rivers as borders there will be an additional emphasis on river boats. This is version of the Toph Maru class, designed to support and repair river patrol boats and MTBs up to 40t.

Toph Maru III, Japan River Boat Tender laid down 1916

Displacement:
   401 t light; 414 t standard; 442 t normal; 464 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (200.00 ft / 200.00 ft) x 27.00 ft x (5.40 / 5.61 ft)
   (60.96 m / 60.96 m) x 8.23 m  x (1.65 / 1.71 m)

Armament:
      6 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm 45.0 cal guns - 4.03lbs / 1.83kg shells, 300 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1916 Model
     2 x Triple mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 24 lbs / 11 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Conning towers: Forward 0.50" / 13 mm, Aft 0.50" / 13 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 1,616 shp / 1,205 Kw = 17.00 kts
   Range 2,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 49 tons

Complement:
   47 - 62

Cost:
   £0.039 million / $0.156 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 4 tons, 1.0 %
      - Guns: 4 tons, 1.0 %
   Armour: 3 tons, 0.8 %
      - Armament: 2 tons, 0.5 %
      - Conning Towers: 1 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 60 tons, 13.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 158 tons, 35.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 40 tons, 9.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 175 tons, 39.6 %
      - Hull below water: 20 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 150 tons
      - Above deck: 5 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,219 lbs / 553 Kg = 304.7 x 2.0 " / 51 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
   Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 11.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.03

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.530 / 0.536
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.41 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.14 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  7.00 ft / 2.13 m,  7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  7.00 ft / 2.13 m,  7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  7.00 ft / 2.13 m,  7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Average freeboard:      7.24 ft / 2.21 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 53.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 104.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,699 Square feet or 344 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 142 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 156 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.24
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room

5t - Flagship Accommodations
20t - Observation Balloon
80t - MTB support
50t - Out of port resupply
20t - Electric Drive