Ship Design Thread

[The Rock Doctor]

1902 Design:  2x2 28cm, 4x2 20 cm; 15,200 t; 19 knots.
......

Interesting.
Lets take that to 1907.
Query; would super-firing turrets and in increase to 18,000 tons with a concurrent increase in machinery give you a ship with a speed of about 25 knots?

Possibly, but it wasn't the design route I took. 

I decided to emulate the German pillbox design with 6x2 - 300mm, then went to a 4x3 en-echelon layout after that.

[The Rock Doctor]

That was a helpful reminder that I'd jumped from 280mm to 300mm for my first all-big-gun ships.  I'd completely forgotten the 300mm gun in my naval artillery compilation.

[Kaiser Kirk]

1902 Design:  2x2 28cm, 4x2 20 cm; 15,200 t; 19 knots.
......

Interesting.
Lets take that to 1907.
Query; would super-firing turrets and in increase to 18,000 tons with a concurrent increase in machinery give you a ship with a speed of about 25 knots?

Snip's Design of NPCs would see Ethiopia with no 'capital ship' guns. For an NPC that's ok, for player I want you to have something with a bit more oomph.
So the 8/9/10" guns will be available, but those traditionally on battlewagons won't be at first.

For a ship with 10" guns, a Von-der-taan or South Carolina arrangement should allow 25knots at that displacement- or less.
The 90% coal/10% oil fired seems to be a knot or two below pure oil fired, but the Byzantines have some very nice armored cruisers in that range....annoyingly my Parthians seem to play catch up to Jeftge's designs, even though they were developed independently and 'blind'.

[AnchorSteam]

Jeez.... I post I spent half an hour on just went "poof".... WTF? This happens every other time, or every single time I try to add pics.

[AnchorSteam]

Okay, the short from -

I am worried that I am wasting too much of your time and mine with a couple or heavies when I should be concentrating on DDs and TBs.

To simplify -

What I was looking for in the flagship is something like this--
https://www.navypedia.org/ships/italy/it_bb_regina_elena.htm

But now it looks like it would be twin 10" up front at best, and I can have super-firing turrets so may as well drop a pair of 8" turrets and... damn, I am right back to this --
https://www.navypedia.org/ships/italy/it_cr_san_giorgio.htm

So maybe I should just get three of those with a few mods and call it a day?

That is a good site, btw, clean & easy and is a little more solid than Wiki.

I like the Aztec and Chinese DDs but I am still looking. The 750 tonners will be easy, but 1,000 tonners with triple TTs will be harder. Can DDs have oen or two tubes firing straight ahead, like German TBs did at this time?

[Kaiser Kirk]

Hi Anchor,

Right now I have a spreadsheet in progress,
I've got suggested drydock set up, and suggested ships for the <=1897, the 1898-1903 categories
I'm working on the 1904-1907 list now and will finish it shortly. 230ish?

I have a masterlist of everyone's ships up to 1912 which I use to find ships that meet what you said you wanted, and then I pick out the suggested ones.

It's all part of helping folks get set up, rather than tossing you into the deep end of the pool and then throwing you a filing cabinet and saying 'learn all this stuff, then swim'.

The Parthians have a Regina Elena variant, albeit with 13.5" guns, and superimposed 7".
I can make one with 10" & 7" easily for you.
the ships in my personal encyclopedia are easiest to change.

The 1000 tonners we will likely have to ask folks to submit designs.
In which case I will award $3 to the design "Winner".
Yes, you can have 'cheek' firing torpedo tubes, the Parthian 1904 "spear' class DD does just that.

[AnchorSteam]

Hi Anchor,

Right now I have a spreadsheet in progress,
I've got suggested drydock set up, and suggested ships for the <=1897, the 1898-1903 categories
I'm working on the 1904-1907 list now and will finish it shortly. 230ish?

We must be in the same time zone.... PST?

I have a masterlist of everyone's ships up to 1912 which I use to find ships that meet what you said you wanted, and then I pick out the suggested ones.

It's all part of helping folks get set up, rather than tossing you into the deep end of the pool and then throwing you a filing cabinet and saying 'learn all this stuff, then swim'.

And I am feeling guilty about putting you to all this work once again....

But one question for now- all those shades of grey are confounding, is my colony the absolute N.E. tip of Mozambique? I hope so anyway, it would be best for me since it's not too far. YES, give them a point so I don't have to pay Deployment costs.

The Parthians have a Regina Elena variant, albeit with 13.5" guns, and superimposed 7".
I can make one with 10" & 7" easily for you.
the ships in my personal encyclopedia are easiest to change.

I thought that I had been capped at 10", but if I can get 13.5" that gives me a chance to stand off a BB, so that would be worth it. Is it under 19k-tons and reasonably quick?

I was almost ready to settle for an extra Pisa-class CA until you mentioned that.

The 1000 tonners we will likely have to ask folks to submit designs.
In which case I will award $3 to the design "Winner".
Yes, you can have 'cheek' firing torpedo tubes, the Parthian 1904 "spear' class DD does just that.

Yes, just about anything that world well will be accepted as the 12 x 750 tonners, and I was able to locate a 1,000 tonner with triple tubes under Italy..... looks as if I have been heavily influenced by Roma!



If I could have these for Ethiopia it would simplify things greatly.

Italia-DD-1909, Italia Destroyer laid down 1909

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,040 t standard; 1,210 t normal; 1,346 t full load
[DD 40 thru DD 58 are of this class of ship]

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   333.00 ft / 323.00 ft x 26.92 ft x 9.00 ft (normal load)
   101.50 m / 98.45 m x 8.21 m  x 2.74 m

Armament:
      4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 250 lbs / 113 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   6 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 22,957 shp / 17,126 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 4,400nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 305 tons

Complement:
   102 - 133

Cost:
   £0.149 million / $0.596 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 31 tons, 2.6 %
   Armour: 8 tons, 0.7 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 8 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 627 tons, 51.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 308 tons, 25.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 210 tons, 17.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 25 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     288 lbs / 131 Kg = 4.6 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.39
   Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 10.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 81 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.39

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.541
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 24.45 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Mid (40 %):      18.00 ft / 5.49 m (11.00 ft / 3.35 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):
   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Stern:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:   14.12 ft / 4.30 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 188.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 84.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,018 Square feet or 559 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 51 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 23 lbs/sq ft or 112 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.49
      - Longitudinal: 1.99
      - Overall: 0.50
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

12 in service ----- I would want 20 and call that all the 1,000-ton DDs to fill that slot. The older 750s .... yes, it would be fun to have a competition for those!

[Kaiser Kirk]

Spreadsheet is up. I sent you some PMs.

Yep, PST. There's a reason I recognize the AnchorSteam moniker as belonging to a beer who's co-owner lives in Bolinas, in Marin Co.

Don't worry about the workload.  If I got truly jammed up, there are several folks who would help as well.
Experience says asking you to jump and learn a ton and do a whole bunch of work just to participate...it's not the best way to welcome folks.

50 Shades O'Gray...
The Ethiopians have 2 provinces above the word Mozambique Channel. One of them has a Port Symbol  at the narrowest part.
You will have built 1 IC in the province with the Port Symbol. The other province will still need the Land + Deployment.
But you can expand inland from there.


Capital Ships

A large part of what I am doing is trying to be true to the original 'vision' as how the NPCs work, while also making sure the positions are playable and enjoyable.
Not being allowed any capital ships..ie guns over 200mms...that would fail the playable and enjoyable.
To some extent I modify the NPC-PC process each time, trying to 'learn' a bit.

In the spreadsheet, I have some Norse 12" monitors, which I will allow as they are specialty coastal and don't really effect the vision.
Likewise, I will allow up to 255mm/10", as that allows you to contest the various ACs  and some BCs running around
The Ship I posted down in the design thread is one option,
But if you want to spend that tonnage buying 1 foreign predread with larger guns I think I'll allow it.
The Parthian ship is the Smurgh class https://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,7042.0.html but you can look at other folks encyclopedias as well.

I expect you may choose to build ships similar to Rocky's (Wilno)'s Archer Class , the last of these : https://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,7150.0.html though probably with 255mm.

The Italian destroyer is probably quite doable, we can ask Snip to resim it as 1911 with 90/10 coal/oil.
The 1908 DD tech will be researched in 1908, 1909, 1910 and so you can start building ships with it in 1911.

[AnchorSteam]

Spreadsheet is up. I sent you some PMs.

Yep, PST. There's a reason I recognize the AnchorSteam moniker as belonging to a beer who's co-owner lives in Bolinas, in Marin Co.

;D
I was wondering when someone would get that one.

50 Shades O'Gray...
The Ethiopians have 2 provinces above the word Mozambique Channel. One of them has a Port Symbol  at the narrowest part.
You will have built 1 IC in the province with the Port Symbol. The other province will still need the Land + Deployment.
But you can expand inland from there.

I need to spend a point each time I expand from a colony?
Done!

In the spreadsheet, I have some Norse 12" monitors, which I will allow as they are specialty coastal and don't really effect the vision.
Likewise, I will allow up to 255mm/10", as that allows you to contest the various ACs  and some BCs running around

Does not sounds suitble for deployment at the Colony, but great for defending a base with. I was thinking more like a cruiser loaded with 155mm guns on an Army pattern, but that's the kind of goof that I'll have to wait for until/if I can ever make SS work for me.

The Ship I posted down in the design thread is one option,
But if you want to spend that tonnage buying 1 foreign predread with larger guns I think I'll allow it.
The Parthian ship is the Smurgh class https://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,7042.0.html but you can look at other folks encyclopedias as well.

You may want to check that, its not a Pre-dread and I can't spend tonnage on that scale!

I expect you may choose to build ships similar to Rocky's (Wilno)'s Archer Class , the last of these : https://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,7150.0.html though probably with 255mm.

That tops out at 20k, so that would have to be the flagship. Otherwise it would be like 2 x Pisa-class CAs.... would it be worth it?

The Italian destroyer is probably quite doable, we can ask Snip to resim it as 1911 with 90/10 coal/oil.
The 1908 DD tech will be researched in 1908, 1909, 1910 and so you can start building ships with it in 1911.

Ship already sent me one with 4 x 100mm guns and .... looks for torpedoes is still making me cross-eyed.

[Kaiser Kirk]

1) if you were looking for a bombardment ship with 155mm, I'm sure one can be found.

2) For any undeveloped province you need a land point..in order to maintain that land point, you need a deployment point assigned.

3) Displacement - we work off LIGHT displacement, not standard or full load.  The latter two includes allot of food/water/fuel/ammo, we are concerned about the heavy metal parts.

4) I'm thinking you want to be looking at 25-28knot ships for your 1908-1912 builds. A Pisa in that speed range would be decent, but N7 has a number of all-big-gun armored cruisers, so a Blucher or 10" Invincible would work better.

5) I'm guessing you looked at the Tiamat at the bottom. No that's not a predread. That's a dread :)

The Simurgh I was pointing to is in the middle and is the Parthian predread inspired by Regina Elena with the three secondary turrets on each broadside. - except she has 180mm  B and X turrets over the 345mm main battery, for a 10x 180mm  secondary.
She's not fast, but does have heavy belt armor and would still be effective.
If Ethiopia wants one, we can presume Parthia sold one.

Class Name : Simurgh
Parthian Battleship laid down 1904

# Built : 2 "Simurgh" and "Huma"
# Active : 2
# Lost : 0

Displacement:
   17,000 t light; 18,034 t standard; 19,456 t normal; 20,594 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (493.77 ft / 487.20 ft) x 86.94 ft x (28.71 / 30.04 ft)
   (150.50 m / 148.50 m) x 26.50 m  x (8.75 / 9.16 m)

Armament:
      4 - 13.58" / 345 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1,201.52lbs / 545.00kg shells, 105 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      16 - 7.09" / 180 mm 45.0 cal guns - 176.37lbs / 80.00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     6 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
      2 raised mounts

[AnchorSteam]

1) if you were looking for a bombardment ship with 155mm, I'm sure one can be found.

No no no, let's stick with what we have so far, too many changes too keep up with already.

2) For any undeveloped province you need a land point..in order to maintain that land point, you need a deployment point assigned.

So, its a very slow process, then. Is the acquisition of normal (white) worth it then? How long does it take to start paying off?

And that reminds me, I will have to organize fleets/squadrons and set home bases for all of them before I can start play, won't I?

3) Displacement - we work off LIGHT displacement, not standard or full load.  The latter two includes allot of food/water/fuel/ammo, we are concerned about the heavy metal parts.

Oh, good!

4) I'm thinking you want to be looking at 25-28knot ships for your 1908-1912 builds. A Pisa in that speed range would be decent, but N7 has a number of all-big-gun armored cruisers, so a Blucher or 10" Invincible would work better.

Just one? I'm thinking that a matching pair would be more useful than another one-off. That is why I was looking at 10k-ton CAs instead of a sister to the Flagship.

5) I'm guessing you looked at the Tiamat at the bottom. No that's not a predread. That's a dread :)

The Simurgh I was pointing to is in the middle and is the Parthian predread inspired by Regina Elena with the three secondary turrets on each broadside. - except she has 180mm  B and X turrets over the 345mm main battery, for a 10x 180mm  secondary.
She's not fast, but does have heavy belt armor and would still be effective.
If Ethiopia wants one, we can presume Parthia sold one.

I was shown types for both the flagship and the CAs that I gave an enthusiastic thumbs-up to and I want to go with that.... but since then I have seen so many options that I have totally lost track.
Maybe I should have screen-shotted all of it, but it went so fast today, or was that yesterday?

[AnchorSteam]

I have no idea WTF happened to that last post, I was not pulling a Vanishing Point on purpose there.

[The Rock Doctor]

I was about the change the zoom on my phone.

These new Ethiopian techs are alarming.

[Kaiser Kirk]

These new Ethiopian techs are alarming.

??
I'm guessing you're talking about the nested quotes there

[The Rock Doctor]

Indeed.  The Union hasn't even unlocked basic quoting.