Spain ships 1904 projects

The Rock Doctor · April 19, 2016, 09:03:57 AM

I think our rule of thumb is 2 t per marine embarked for more than a day. That'd require 200 t for your platoon.

It's an interesting vessel for colonial applications, but probably pretty crowded with all the big guns, troops, and boats.

olekit24 · April 19, 2016, 10:55:17 AM

Rules says: Troops: 1 t per four troops for short-ranged landing craft. 2 t per troop for long-term (> 1 day) embarkment. So, 100 men is 25 tons

olekit24 · April 19, 2016, 11:06:59 AM

Cruiser Tajo

Cruiser Improved Tajo

Tanthalas · April 19, 2016, 05:39:33 PM

Like Rock I think they would be very cramped ships with a Company of Marines embarked in addition to their crews (crew size is only 133-174, so another100 men on top of that is ALOT). That said my biggest concern for them as cruisers is the low speed.

snip · April 20, 2016, 07:57:26 AM

The first portion of the sited rule only covers embarkations of less then one day. If this is meant to house the number of men for over 24h, Rocky is correct in the weight needed.

olekit24 · April 20, 2016, 08:29:56 AM

I have wrote earlier, that this ships is necessary measure to strengthen the Spanish Navy. They have class of cruiser, but mostly they are fast gunboats, which can defend coastline, attack light forces and deliver army men to short distances. For example, they are enough to protect shipping in Gibraltar, to serve in colonies and Islands and to to supplement the main force of the offensive, dropping off a landing party on an enemy shore.

there are no need to transport any forces at the warship to distances more then 24 hours. there are lot of merchant ships which can be used (as I understand from discussions).

olekit24 · April 20, 2016, 01:57:59 PM

In 1905 Spain will lay down new serie of destroyers TB-5 class. They will have strong artillery and mine armament and quite good trial speed - 29 knots. Spain plans to build 20 ships of this class in nearet 3 years.

dd-5, Spain DD-5 laid down 1904 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   500 t light; 520 t standard; 576 t normal; 620 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (229,67 ft / 229,23 ft) x 22,41 ft x (10,99 / 11,49 ft)
   (70,00 m / 69,87 m) x 6,83 m x (3,35 / 3,50 m)

Armament:
4 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 33,85lbs / 15,36kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
Weight of broadside 135 lbs / 61 kg

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9 189 ihp / 6 855 Kw = 26,30 kts
   Range 2 100nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 100 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   58 - 76

Cost:
   £0,071 million / $0,284 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 19 tons, 3,3%
     - Guns: 19 tons, 3,3%
   Machinery: 341 tons, 59,2%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 118 tons, 20,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 76 tons, 13,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 22 tons, 3,8%
     - Hull above water: 10 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 12 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     99 lbs / 45 Kg = 2,8 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,37
   Metacentric height 0,9 ft / 0,3 m
   Roll period: 9,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,38
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,357 / 0,368
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,23 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15,14 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -0,49 ft / -0,15 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   24,00%, 12,47 ft / 3,80 m, 10,50 ft / 3,20 m
     - Forward deck:   30,00%, 10,50 ft / 3,20 m, 8,86 ft / 2,70 m
     - Aft deck:   31,00%, 8,86 ft / 2,70 m, 8,86 ft / 2,70 m
     - Quarter deck:   15,00%, 8,86 ft / 2,70 m, 8,86 ft / 2,70 m
     - Average freeboard:      9,69 ft / 2,95 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 202,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93,6%
   Waterplane Area: 3 078 Square feet or 286 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 20%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 19 lbs/sq ft or 95 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,43
      - Longitudinal: 1,99
      - Overall: 0,50
   Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc weights:
4x1 18' TT+ 2 reloads to each – 12 tons
Short range radio – 10 tons

Trial Speed: 29
Bonus: 2.7

Jefgte · April 20, 2016, 02:42:15 PM

Quote- Cross-sectional: 0,43

:-[ In the rules => Cross-sectional: 0,5

From design guidelines
"
=> Hull Strength
Minimum 0.50 cross-sectional hull strength for ships built to Destroyer/TB tech; otherwise, composite hull strength of 1.00 is recommended. Ships not meeting this criteria are at risk of moderator-inflicted incidents.
"

;)

olekit24 · April 20, 2016, 02:59:44 PM

oh, why? I have 0,50, will check it up

snip · April 21, 2016, 08:05:04 AM

While you have .5 overall, you need .5 cross sectional. This can be found on the Performance tab.

olekit24 · April 21, 2016, 09:58:33 AM

I've redesign it, I understand the mistake

olekit24 · April 21, 2016, 03:08:14 PM

dd-5, Spain DD-5 laid down 1904 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   500 t light; 518 t standard; 572 t normal; 615 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (229,67 ft / 229,23 ft) x 20,44 ft x (9,42 / 9,92 ft)
   (70,00 m / 69,87 m) x 6,23 m x (2,87 / 3,02 m)

Armament:
3 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 33,84lbs / 15,35kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
Weight of broadside 102 lbs / 46 kg

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8 774 ihp / 6 545 Kw = 25,80 kts
   Range 2 100nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 97 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   58 - 76

Cost:
   £0,069 million / $0,277 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 14 tons, 2,5%
     - Guns: 14 tons, 2,5%
   Machinery: 338 tons, 59,1%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 126 tons, 22,0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 72 tons, 12,6%
   Miscellaneous weights: 22 tons, 3,8%
     - Hull above water: 10 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 12 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     107 lbs / 49 Kg = 3,0 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22
   Metacentric height 0,7 ft / 0,2 m
   Roll period: 10,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 81 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,43
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,17

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,454 / 0,463
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11,22 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15,14 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -0,49 ft / -0,15 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   24,00%, 12,47 ft / 3,80 m, 10,50 ft / 3,20 m
     - Forward deck:   30,00%, 10,50 ft / 3,20 m, 8,86 ft / 2,70 m
     - Aft deck:   31,00%, 8,86 ft / 2,70 m, 8,86 ft / 2,70 m
     - Quarter deck:   15,00%, 8,86 ft / 2,70 m, 8,86 ft / 2,70 m
     - Average freeboard:      9,69 ft / 2,95 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 200,2%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 91,2%
   Waterplane Area: 2 999 Square feet or 279 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 20%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 20 lbs/sq ft or 97 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 2,02
      - Overall: 0,57
   Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Misc weights:
4x1 18' TT+ 2 reloads to each – 12 tons
Short range radio – 10 tons

Trial Speed: 28.5
Bonus: 2.7

olekit24 · May 09, 2016, 04:22:13 PM

New serie of small destroyers will be laid down in 1905:

TB-5, Spain torpedo boat (light destroyer) laid down 1905 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   370 t light; 387 t standard; 424 t normal; 454 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (201,57 ft / 199,64 ft) x 18,64 ft x (8,69 / 9,13 ft)
   (61,44 m / 60,85 m) x 5,68 m x (2,65 / 2,78 m)

Armament:
2 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 33,84lbs / 15,35kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1,06" / 27,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 0,61lbs / 0,27kg shells, 150 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 70 lbs / 32 kg

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6 932 ihp / 5 171 Kw = 25,00 kts
   Range 1 400nm at 11,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 68 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   46 - 60

Cost:
   £0,052 million / $0,206 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 10 tons, 2,4%
     - Guns: 10 tons, 2,4%
   Machinery: 253 tons, 59,7%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 91 tons, 21,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 54 tons, 12,7%
   Miscellaneous weights: 16 tons, 3,8%
     - Hull above water: 10 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 6 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     73 lbs / 33 Kg = 2,1 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23
   Metacentric height 0,6 ft / 0,2 m
   Roll period: 10,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,33
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,07

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,459 / 0,468
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,71 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14,13 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,48 ft / 0,45 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   24,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,78 ft / 4,20 m
     - Forward deck:   30,00%, 7,55 ft / 2,30 m, 7,55 ft / 2,30 m
     - Aft deck:   31,00%, 7,55 ft / 2,30 m, 7,55 ft / 2,30 m
     - Quarter deck:   15,00%, 7,55 ft / 2,30 m, 7,55 ft / 2,30 m
     - Average freeboard:      8,98 ft / 2,74 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 203,1%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 74,7%
   Waterplane Area: 2 391 Square feet or 222 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 19%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 18 lbs/sq ft or 87 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 2,30
      - Overall: 0,58
   Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Trial Speed: 28.5
Bonus: 3.5

Misc weights:
3x1 18' TT + reloads – 6 tonns
Short range radio – 10 tonns

olekit24 · June 02, 2016, 04:46:03 PM

The passenger liner for Real Compañía Naviera Espaniola

RCNE Cadiz, Spain Passenger liner laid down 1905 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   12 340 t light; 12 619 t standard; 13 940 t normal; 14 998 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (509,60 ft / 491,31 ft) x 65,29 ft x (25,39 / 26,97 ft)
   (155,33 m / 149,75 m) x 19,90 m x (7,74 / 8,22 m)

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 18 707 ihp / 13 955 Kw = 20,00 kts
   Range 5 200nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 379 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   640 - 833

Cost:
   £0,841 million / $3,364 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0,0%
   Machinery: 2 923 tons, 21,0%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 692 tons, 26,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 600 tons, 11,5%
   Miscellaneous weights: 5 725 tons, 41,1%
     - Hull below water: 1 500 tons
     - Hull above water: 4 000 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 225 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13 289 lbs / 6 028 Kg = 123,0 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 1,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
   Metacentric height 3,4 ft / 1,0 m
   Roll period: 14,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,00
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,599 / 0,607
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,53 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 6,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 14,76 ft / 4,50 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20,00%, 33,60 ft / 10,24 m, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m
     - Forward deck:   30,00%, 24,93 ft / 7,60 m, 24,93 ft / 7,60 m
     - Aft deck:   30,00%, 24,93 ft / 7,60 m, 24,93 ft / 7,60 m
     - Quarter deck:   20,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 33,60 ft / 10,24 m
     - Average freeboard:      27,50 ft / 8,38 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111,0%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 173,9%
   Waterplane Area: 23 438 Square feet or 2 178 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 84 lbs/sq ft or 412 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,87
      - Longitudinal: 3,37
      - Overall: 1,00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc weights:
- 4200t - cabins for 850 passengers (60 1st class, 240 2nd class, 550 3rd class) or 2000 soldiers and officers (war time)
- 1500 t - cargo
- 25 t - long range radio

The Rock Doctor · June 02, 2016, 06:46:29 PM

Does it need to be 20 knots? Something of ~15 knots would still be pretty fast for a merchie, and would cost a lot less for the same capability.