Ships of the Catholic Republic of Italy

[Barcaii]

Here we have a ship I made in springsharp. It is a large long range corvette, at this tie unarmoured. I would love if you rip it apart for me as this started as a ship built from scratch, though korpen has asisted me with making it quite a bit more sea-worthy before I post it here. :)


Anicetus, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1872
Corvette (Unarmoured)

Displacement:
   2 771 t light; 2 995 t standard; 5 400 t normal; 7 324 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (301,84 ft / 301,84 ft) x 45,93 ft x (24,61 / 31,75 ft)
   (92,00 m / 92,00 m) x 14,00 m  x (7,50 / 9,68 m)

Armament:
      8 - 7,99" / 203 mm 25,0 cal guns - 198,08lbs / 89,85kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in broadside mounts, 1872 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 - 5,98" / 152 mm 25,0 cal guns - 83,16lbs / 37,72kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1872 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 1 917 lbs / 870 kg

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 2 820 ihp / 2 104 Kw = 13,00 kts
   Range 12 000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4 329 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   314 - 409

Cost:
   £0,240 million / $0,960 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 143 tons, 2,7 %
      - Guns: 143 tons, 2,7 %
   Machinery: 664 tons, 12,3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 912 tons, 35,4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 629 tons, 48,7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 52 tons, 1,0 %
      - Above deck: 52 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8 281 lbs / 3 756 Kg = 44,4 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 2,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,75
   Metacentric height 3,9 ft / 1,2 m
   Roll period: 9,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,38
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,554 / 0,582
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,57 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17,37 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 34 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00 %,  16,57 ft / 5,05 m,  14,30 ft / 4,36 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00 %,  14,30 ft / 4,36 m,  12,04 ft / 3,67 m
      - Aft deck:   35,00 %,  12,04 ft / 3,67 m,  12,04 ft / 3,67 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00 %,  12,04 ft / 3,67 m,  12,04 ft / 3,67 m
      - Average freeboard:      13,01 ft / 3,97 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 51,2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 71,8 %
   Waterplane Area: 9 426 Square feet or 876 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 291 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 119 lbs/sq ft or 581 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,06
      - Longitudinal: 3,51
      - Overall: 1,20
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[miketr]

I would start with ditching all the 8" guns and trying to put some armor on the ship.  The range is crazy long for the time period, as nearly an order of magnitude too high.  Figure for the time period go for more like a 1,000 tons of coal as an upper limit.

Michael

[Tanthalas]

Mike is right, take a look at this one for example http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,5641.msg73091.html#msg73091 Now it may not be exactly what you want but atleast it should give you an idea whats realistic.

[Jefgte]

IMO, Your ship is a coaler...

Diiplacement 2771t light & 4329t of coal for 12000nm range in Mediterranee.
in 1872, you use sails for patrols & 3000nm range is enough for Mediterranee.

Jef  ;)

[Sachmle]

12,000nm @ 10kts is long range for a cruiser in 1920, let alone a corvette in 1872.

[Carthaginian]

Here's a period example of a ship VERY MUCH like the one you are trying to build.
She carried 500 tons of coal on almost exactly the same tonnage (standard), and though her armament was different, I don't think the total weight of the guns would be too different. This is also an unarmored steel cruiser, like the ship you are planning.

She is also, IMHO, a very handsome little ship.
http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fit.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FClasse_Flavio_Gioia&lp=it_en&btnTrUrl=Translate

Link is translated from the Italian Wiki via Babelfish.

[Barcaii]

Ok, I'll reduce the range significantly. I was aiming for a ship that could stay at sea for a long time and protect/raid merchant routes hence the long range. I'm not sure how long range is needed for such a ship, is 3 000 nm(as suggested) enough for such a task or should I have slightly more, say 5 000 nm to allow it to remain at sea for a longer time?

Why should I remove the broadside cannons?

Anyway, how about this? It got armour, less coal and 2 more 6 inch guns.


Anicetus, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1872
Armoured Corvette (Broadside ironclad)

Displacement:
   4 144 t light; 4 382 t standard; 5 400 t normal; 6 214 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (301,84 ft / 301,84 ft) x 45,93 ft x (24,61 / 27,63 ft)
   (92,00 m / 92,00 m) x 14,00 m  x (7,50 / 8,42 m)

Armament:
      8 - 7,99" / 203 mm 25,0 cal guns - 198,08lbs / 89,85kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in broadside mounts, 1872 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 - 5,98" / 152 mm 25,0 cal guns - 83,16lbs / 37,72kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1872 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 2 084 lbs / 945 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6,00" / 152 mm   196,19 ft / 59,80 m   8,13 ft / 2,48 m
   Ends:   6,00" / 152 mm   105,62 ft / 32,19 m   8,13 ft / 2,48 m
   Upper:   8,00" / 203 mm   196,19 ft / 59,80 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1,00" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 1,00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1,00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 2 820 ihp / 2 104 Kw = 13,00 kts
   Range 5 000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 832 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   314 - 409

Cost:
   £0,292 million / $1,169 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 157 tons, 2,9 %
      - Guns: 157 tons, 2,9 %
   Armour: 1 322 tons, 24,5 %
      - Belts: 1 146 tons, 21,2 %
      - Armour Deck: 176 tons, 3,3 %
   Machinery: 664 tons, 12,3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 950 tons, 36,1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 255 tons, 23,2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 52 tons, 1,0 %
      - Above deck: 52 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6 840 lbs / 3 103 Kg = 36,7 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 2,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23
   Metacentric height 2,3 ft / 0,7 m
   Roll period: 12,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 89 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,53
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,78

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,554 / 0,568
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,57 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17,37 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 34 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00 %,  16,57 ft / 5,05 m,  14,30 ft / 4,36 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00 %,  14,30 ft / 4,36 m,  12,04 ft / 3,67 m
      - Aft deck:   35,00 %,  12,04 ft / 3,67 m,  12,04 ft / 3,67 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00 %,  12,04 ft / 3,67 m,  12,04 ft / 3,67 m
      - Average freeboard:      13,01 ft / 3,97 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 52,1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 71,8 %
   Waterplane Area: 9 426 Square feet or 876 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 168 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 122 lbs/sq ft or 594 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,07
      - Longitudinal: 3,25
      - Overall: 1,20
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[ctwaterman]

In 1872 to stay at sea you need additional Food and Water... Wind to Power your sails is free.  The Coal fired single screw engine is not used for actual cruising or maintaining station but to chase ships into the wind and to gain an advantage against a ship not having  such equipment.

As long as most of your cruise is on wind power you can stay at sea for months at a time as long as your food and water hold out.

[miketr]

If you want a sail rig you need more misc weight, the suggestion I have hasn't been made to a rule but it might be a good idea to follow it, if nothing else to get a feel for what is possible.

Could you try the following please to see what you get?

A full rigged ship can do up to 2/3 of SS hull speed (not ship engine speed but speed based on hull) Displacement costs being 1.5% misc weight above hull for Full Rigged Ship and 6.5% misc weight below deck.  On a 6,000 ton ship this comes out to 480 total misc tons.


A Brigantine can do 1/2 of SS hull speed.  Displacement costs being 1% Misc Weight above hull and 4% misc weight below deck.  On a 6,000 ton ship this comes out to 300 total misc tons.

Reduce coal again to less than 1,000 tons, you don't need 5,000 nm range with a sail rig and a ship in the Med.

Michael

[Barcaii]

If I reduce the range to 2 800 nm and follow your guidlines for a fully rigged ship I get this:


Anicetus, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1872
Armoured Corvette (Broadside ironclad)

Displacement:
   4 580 t light; 4 818 t standard; 5 400 t normal; 5 865 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (301,84 ft / 301,84 ft) x 45,93 ft x (24,61 / 26,33 ft)
   (92,00 m / 92,00 m) x 14,00 m  x (7,50 / 8,03 m)

Armament:
      8 - 7,99" / 203 mm 25,0 cal guns - 198,08lbs / 89,85kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in broadside mounts, 1872 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 - 5,98" / 152 mm 25,0 cal guns - 83,16lbs / 37,72kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1872 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 2 084 lbs / 945 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6,00" / 152 mm   196,19 ft / 59,80 m   8,13 ft / 2,48 m
   Ends:   6,00" / 152 mm   105,62 ft / 32,19 m   8,13 ft / 2,48 m
   Upper:   8,00" / 203 mm   196,19 ft / 59,80 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1,00" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 1,00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1,00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 2 820 ihp / 2 104 Kw = 13,00 kts
   Range 2 800nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 047 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   314 - 409

Cost:
   £0,308 million / $1,231 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 157 tons, 2,9 %
      - Guns: 157 tons, 2,9 %
   Armour: 1 322 tons, 24,5 %
      - Belts: 1 146 tons, 21,2 %
      - Armour Deck: 176 tons, 3,3 %
   Machinery: 664 tons, 12,3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 006 tons, 37,1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 819 tons, 15,2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 432 tons, 8,0 %
      - Hull below water: 351 tons
      - Above deck: 81 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5 966 lbs / 2 706 Kg = 32,0 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 1,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,21
   Metacentric height 2,2 ft / 0,7 m
   Roll period: 13,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 88 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,54
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,76

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,554 / 0,562
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,57 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17,37 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 34 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00 %,  16,57 ft / 5,05 m,  14,30 ft / 4,36 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00 %,  14,30 ft / 4,36 m,  12,04 ft / 3,67 m
      - Aft deck:   35,00 %,  12,04 ft / 3,67 m,  12,04 ft / 3,67 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00 %,  12,04 ft / 3,67 m,  12,04 ft / 3,67 m
      - Average freeboard:      13,01 ft / 3,97 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 59,0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 71,8 %
   Waterplane Area: 9 426 Square feet or 876 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 150 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 125 lbs/sq ft or 610 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,10
      - Longitudinal: 3,34
      - Overall: 1,23
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Nobody]

I would like to point out that most ships I looked up and remember have had ranges which barely exceeded 1000 nm.

[Barcaii]

Well, the General Admiral is quite similar to this ship and has a range of 5 900 nm. Then again that ship is designed for an entirely different location, so it might be posible to lower the range even more on this ship. :)