The Malta Accord of 1912 Discussion Thread

[snip]

Treaty is here. Comments in this thread.

[The Rock Doctor]

Iberia, Rome and Byzantium?

[Desertfox]

Some rewording might be required:

4)   Coastal & Commerce Protection Craft are defined by the following upper bounds
a.   Up to 1000t light displacement
b.   Up to two [2] guns with a bore no larger than 140mm
c.   Up to six [6] total guns

Should there be a lower limit to b? Right now there is a limit to 2 guns total.

Section 2A: Each signatory's navy is to be allowed to permanently station or assign no more than two [2] capital warships, AND eight [8] warships, AND ten [10] heavy torpedo warships, and fifty [50] motorized torpedo craft in the Mediterranean. Additionally, any number of coastal & commerce protection craft are allowed.  See Annex 1 for definitions of the types described in this section.

Suggest the above, otherwise you are restricting yourself to a total of 8 warships, since both capital and heavy torpedo warships qualify under the generic warship label.

[snip]

Iberia, Rome and Byzantium?

Yes

[Jefgte]

January 2, 1913,

For the application of the Malta Treaty, the 500t TGBs of the
1st TGB Division; TGB45 - TGB46 - TGB47 - TGB48 are assigned to the Gibraltar Patrols and are placed under the orders of the Iberian Admiralty.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Iberia, Rome and Byzantium?

As a participant I'm rather unhappy.
I just find it very metagame and very unlikely to occur.
I look at history, and this type of thing doesn't seem to come up often, especially without some driving reason, and not between powers that aren't fast friends.
Then I look at the history of nations sharing long borders, and they don't tend to be fast friends.
So it's really a "What the H.." type thing.

The funny thing is it's all on paper. The ease of the Romans sailing back, or Byzantine transiting Suez, means it's really a public statement that
these nations aren't seeing each others as potential foes. Which seems odd for a Naval wargame.

As Parthia,
it's very problematic.
It means Byzantine is suddenly free to move her navy against me.

Which from Parthia's POV is bad, as they would dearly like someone on the far side of the Byzantines to balance them out.
Part of the reason I just built some long range cruisers is so I could raid the East med and Atlantic coast where Byzantine
would have a hard time reaching. They are designed to be hard to match up, and difficult for Byzantine to counter at a distance from their bases.

But since the Mediterranean powers suddenly decided to play nice with each other, ta da. Now there's Byzantine warships at Gibraltar !

Iberia now has...little need for a home fleet and can move overseas.
Rome can concentrate in the Caribbean and North Sea. It's a win for them.

[Jefgte]

As a participant I'm rather unhappy.
I just find it very metagame and very unlikely to occur.
I look at history, and this type of thing doesn't seem to come up often, especially without some driving reason, and not between powers that aren't fast friends.
Then I look at the history of nations sharing long borders, and they don't tend to be fast friends.
So it's really a "What the H.." type thing.

The funny thing is it's all on paper. The ease of the Romans sailing back, or Byzantine transiting Suez, means it's really a public statement that
these nations aren't seeing each others as potential foes. Which seems odd for a Naval wargame...

I must recognize that the treaties defining "no war zone" are not in the spirit of the Wargame. However, the Mediterranean is a closed sea, there is no free land therefore, the colonial conquest cannot exist there.

...As Parthia,
it's very problematic.
It means Byzantine is suddenly free to move her navy against me.

Which from Parthia's POV is bad, as they would dearly like someone on the far side of the Byzantines to balance them out.
Part of the reason I just built some long range cruisers is so I could raid the East med and Atlantic coast where Byzantine
would have a hard time reaching. They are designed to be hard to match up, and difficult for Byzantine to counter at a distance from their bases.

Moving the Marmara Fleet was and will always be a possibility to protect one or more Byzantine colonies since Suez and Gibraltar have been free to access since the start of the Wargame.
Balance Parthian ??
Parthian is completely free and dominates with all its "136 guns @ 20kts" the Indian Ocean and perhaps the Oceans of the world. Don't be afraid. Who would dare to challenge the 60 guns of the Tiamats?
About your cruiser raiders..."difficult for Byzantine to counter at a distance from their bases" => Their returns could be difficult...

Finally, Iberians Romans & Byzance are now free to circulate on all the Oceans without having to fear from its direct neighbors.
----------------------
I found that Article 2 of Malta Treaty was worrying for foreign powers. Get the « Home Fleet » out of the Mediterranean ... ??
I don't mind knowing that 10 battleships and 20 cruisers are in Taranto or Cadiz ... There are no colonies in the Mediterranean.

I request the repeal of article II


Jef

[maddox]

I suddenly feel the need to get Agrival Mars back in action.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Moving the Marmara Fleet was and will always be a possibility to protect one or more Byzantine colonies since Suez and Gibraltar have been free to access since the start of the Wargame.

Trust me, I much preferred it when catching the Byzantine fleet was in 2 main pieces and so had to consolidate, which meant confronting it exiting Port Said single file was an option I could at least hope for. ...not likely to happen...but I could hope :)

Parthian is completely free and dominates with all its "136 guns @ 20kts" the Indian Ocean and perhaps the Oceans of the world. Don't be afraid. Who would dare to challenge the 60 guns of the Tiamats?

You mean they work as a deterrent ? 
Parthia has worked to present a strong battleline. Presuming Foxy's report is correct the the Byzantine fleet is both overall larger and has more capital ship, destroyer and submarine tonnage.

Finally, Iberians Romans & Byzance are now free to circulate on all the Oceans without having to fear from its direct neighbors.

And that is what I find unrealistic. In history, your direct neighbors are the ones you usually fear. Here the three of you decided to toss that because it is inconvenient.

[Jefgte]

I found that Article 2 of Malta Treaty was worrying for foreign powers. Get the « Home Fleet » out of the Mediterranean ... ??
I don't mind knowing that 10 battleships and 20 cruisers are in Taranto or Cadiz ... There are no colonies in the Mediterranean.

I request the repeal of article II

This Byzantine request was rejected by the members of the Treaty.
Article II is retained.