For starters, a Battlecruiser......there is an associated Battleship, but that'll be another couple of hours of work. This on is specifically for extreme range operations like the Pacific Theater.
Sultan Ali, Aztec Battlecruiser laid down 1913
Displacement:
26,459 t light; 27,526 t standard; 28,884 t normal; 29,970 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(717.87 ft / 705.38 ft) x 85.30 ft x (29.53 / 30.42 ft)
(218.81 m / 215.00 m) x 26.00 m x (9.00 / 9.27 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.02" / 280 mm 50.0 cal guns - 709.07lbs / 321.63kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1913 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 5.91" / 150 mm 50.0 cal guns - 109.02lbs / 49.45kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
2 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.08lbs / 5.03kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
2 raised mounts
4 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline, forward deck aft
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 7,003 lbs / 3,177 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.2" / 260 mm 487.20 ft / 148.50 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: 2.36" / 60 mm 196.85 ft / 60.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
21.33 ft / 6.50 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 487.20 ft / 148.50 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.97" / 50 mm 487.20 ft / 148.50 m 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 65.62 ft / 20.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.84" / 250 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 9.84" / 250 mm
2nd: 5.91" / 150 mm 3.54" / 90 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.24" / 260 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 123,480 shp / 92,116 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 8,700nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,444 tons
Complement:
1,107 - 1,440
Cost:
£2.543 million / $10.171 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,537 tons, 5.3 %
- Guns: 1,537 tons, 5.3 %
Armour: 9,829 tons, 34.0 %
- Belts: 4,341 tons, 15.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,164 tons, 4.0 %
- Armament: 1,967 tons, 6.8 %
- Armour Deck: 2,149 tons, 7.4 %
- Conning Tower: 208 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 4,839 tons, 16.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,991 tons, 31.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,425 tons, 8.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,263 tons, 4.4 %
- Hull below water: 1,059 tons
- Above deck: 204 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
34,793 lbs / 15,782 Kg = 51.9 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 5.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 16.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.569 / 0.573
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.27 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.56 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.43 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 39.14 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.43 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.99 ft / 6.40 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150.0 %
Waterplane Area: 42,748 Square feet or 3,971 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 152 lbs/sq ft or 744 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.13
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
MGs are on wings of Bridge and Flag Bridge
1059t below water - Electric Drives
50t - Flag Bridge
154t - 1905 Fire Direction
You've made some choices I would not, but looks like a good little ship that Im kinda glad is destined for the Pacific. Three comments.
Quote21.33 ft / 6.50 m Unarmoured ends
This feels odd. Is there a reason for this?
Thinner turret faces than main belt is an interesting choice.
Quote12 - 5.91" / 150 mm 50.0 cal guns - 109.02lbs / 49.45kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
May want to correct the number of guns or mounts here. All deck mounted feels little modern with a upper belt.
Fixed a couple of problems. That's what happens when you're debating between gun numbers on a ship for half an hour.
Sultan Ali, Aztec Battlecruiser laid down 1913
Displacement:
26,410 t light; 27,477 t standard; 28,833 t normal; 29,918 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(717.87 ft / 705.38 ft) x 85.30 ft x (29.53 / 30.42 ft)
(218.81 m / 215.00 m) x 26.00 m x (9.00 / 9.27 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.02" / 280 mm 50.0 cal guns - 709.07lbs / 321.63kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1913 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 5.91" / 150 mm 50.0 cal guns - 109.02lbs / 49.45kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
2 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.08lbs / 5.03kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
2 raised mounts
4 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline, forward deck aft
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 7,003 lbs / 3,177 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.84" / 250 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 213.25 ft / 65.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Main Belt covers 107 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.97" / 50 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 65.62 ft / 20.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.2" / 260 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 10.2" / 260 mm
2nd: 4.92" / 125 mm 3.54" / 90 mm 4.92" / 125 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 123,294 shp / 91,978 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 8,700nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,441 tons
Complement:
1,106 - 1,438
Cost:
£2.540 million / $10.159 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,537 tons, 5.3 %
- Guns: 1,537 tons, 5.3 %
Armour: 9,708 tons, 33.7 %
- Belts: 4,215 tons, 14.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,176 tons, 4.1 %
- Armament: 1,971 tons, 6.8 %
- Armour Deck: 2,147 tons, 7.4 %
- Conning Tower: 199 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 4,831 tons, 16.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,920 tons, 30.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,423 tons, 8.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,414 tons, 4.9 %
- Hull below water: 1,210 tons
- Above deck: 204 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
35,049 lbs / 15,898 Kg = 52.3 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 5.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 16.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.06
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.568 / 0.572
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.27 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.56 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.43 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 39.14 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.43 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 21.39 ft / 6.52 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.6 %
Waterplane Area: 42,707 Square feet or 3,968 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 151 lbs/sq ft or 736 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.16
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
MGs are on wings of Bridge and Flag Bridge
1210t below water - Electric Drives
50t - Flag Bridge
154t - 1905 Fire Direction
And the semi-sister ship, the Implacable class.
Implacable, Aztec Battleship laid down 1913
Displacement:
23,157 t light; 24,284 t standard; 25,296 t normal; 26,106 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(635.85 ft / 623.36 ft) x 82.02 ft x (26.64 / 27.36 ft)
(193.81 m / 190.00 m) x 25.00 m x (8.12 / 8.34 m)
Armament:
10 - 11.02" / 280 mm 50.0 cal guns - 709.07lbs / 321.63kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1913 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
16 - 5.91" / 150 mm 50.0 cal guns - 109.02lbs / 49.45kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
2 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.08lbs / 5.03kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
2 raised mounts
4 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline, forward deck aft
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 8,857 lbs / 4,018 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 431.00 ft / 131.37 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: 3.54" / 90 mm 192.36 ft / 58.63 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Upper: 5.91" / 150 mm 431.00 ft / 131.37 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.97" / 50 mm 431.00 ft / 131.37 m 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 65.62 ft / 20.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 8.86" / 225 mm 11.8" / 300 mm
2nd: 5.91" / 150 mm 3.54" / 90 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 1.26" / 32 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 11.81" / 300 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 51,583 shp / 38,481 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,822 tons
Complement:
1,002 - 1,303
Cost:
£2.197 million / $8.788 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,952 tons, 7.7 %
- Guns: 1,952 tons, 7.7 %
Armour: 10,674 tons, 42.2 %
- Belts: 4,827 tons, 19.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 927 tons, 3.7 %
- Armament: 2,693 tons, 10.6 %
- Armour Deck: 2,008 tons, 7.9 %
- Conning Tower: 219 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 2,021 tons, 8.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,732 tons, 30.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,139 tons, 8.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 778 tons, 3.1 %
- Hull below water: 535 tons
- Above deck: 243 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
39,567 lbs / 17,947 Kg = 59.1 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 6.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.04
Metacentric height 4.0 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 17.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.82
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.37
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.653
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.60 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.43 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 39.14 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.43 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.99 ft / 6.40 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.9 %
Waterplane Area: 39,167 Square feet or 3,639 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 152 lbs/sq ft or 741 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.28
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
MGs are on wings of Bridge and Flag Bridge
535t below water - Electric Drives
50t - Flag Bridge
243t - 1905 Fire Direction
And a B Version of the Sultan Ali class BC sacrificing a bit of speed for armor. Opinions between the corrected A version (2 posts above) and this one?
Sultan Ali, Aztec Battlecruiser laid down 1913
Displacement:
26,006 t light; 27,082 t standard; 28,427 t normal; 29,503 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(717.87 ft / 705.38 ft) x 85.30 ft x (29.53 / 30.42 ft)
(218.81 m / 215.00 m) x 26.00 m x (9.00 / 9.27 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.02" / 280 mm 50.0 cal guns - 709.07lbs / 321.63kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1913 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
14 - 5.91" / 150 mm 50.0 cal guns - 109.02lbs / 49.45kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
2 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.08lbs / 5.03kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
2 raised mounts
4 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline, forward deck aft
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 7,221 lbs / 3,275 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.2" / 260 mm 459.32 ft / 140.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: 2.36" / 60 mm 246.06 ft / 75.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Upper: 5.91" / 150 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.97" / 50 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 65.62 ft / 20.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.2" / 260 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 10.2" / 260 mm
2nd: 5.91" / 150 mm 3.54" / 90 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.24" / 260 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 106,482 shp / 79,436 Kw = 29.00 kts
Range 8,700nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,421 tons
Complement:
1,094 - 1,423
Cost:
£2.449 million / $9.795 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,601 tons, 5.6 %
- Guns: 1,601 tons, 5.6 %
Armour: 10,142 tons, 35.7 %
- Belts: 4,585 tons, 16.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,176 tons, 4.1 %
- Armament: 2,045 tons, 7.2 %
- Armour Deck: 2,131 tons, 7.5 %
- Conning Tower: 205 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 4,173 tons, 14.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,831 tons, 31.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,421 tons, 8.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,259 tons, 4.4 %
- Hull below water: 1,055 tons
- Above deck: 204 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
36,930 lbs / 16,751 Kg = 55.1 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 5.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 16.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.14
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.560 / 0.564
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.27 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.56 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.43 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 39.14 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.43 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 21.39 ft / 6.52 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153.2 %
Waterplane Area: 42,388 Square feet or 3,938 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 151 lbs/sq ft or 736 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.17
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
MGs are on wings of Bridge and Flag Bridge
1055t below water - Electric Drives
50t - Flag Bridge
154t - 1905 Fire Direction
I think the extra knot is better value than the incremental armor increase, myself.
I'm generally leaning in that direction as well. But then I know that the Aztecs are starting a bit behind in the guns department, so it's highly likely that one of these might have to go up against a battlecruiser with 35 or even 38 centimeter guns. So I figured I'd take a look at one armored enough that it might be able to take a hit from one of those.
I don't think a half-inch more armor would affect the ability of the ship to handle 35 or 38 cm shells. I'd be looking for a belt of at least 30 cm, likely more, if I thought my ship was going to dance with something like that.
As it is, you're more or less in the sweet-ish spot of "kill what you can't outrun".
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on June 04, 2020, 09:55:21 AM
I don't think a half-inch more armor would affect the ability of the ship to handle 35 or 38 cm shells. I'd be looking for a belt of at least 30 cm, likely more, if I thought my ship was going to dance with something like that.
As it is, you're more or less in the sweet-ish spot of "kill what you can't outrun".
Ultimately this is my design philosophy on battlecruisers. I aim more towards the 'cruiser' end rather than the 'battle' end.
Agreed on the faster one being the better call. 30knts is going to give you more utility than any amount of armor you can stack on at 29knts.
On the implacable class, I'm thinking about switching to 10cm guns from 15cm guns for the secondary. And up the number to 20. The reasoning is that Caribbean operations are more likely to have large numbers of torpedo boats than cruisers.
I would still keep some 150mm guns. Maybe keep the hull casemates and add 4-6 100mm a side?
So maybe the 8 casemate 15cm, and 12 10cm in deck mounts with hoists?
See what it looks like. I still think you want the heavier shell of the 150mm, but volume of fire is also a valid concern.
Quote from: snip on June 04, 2020, 02:17:23 PM
See what it looks like. I still think you want the heavier shell of the 150mm, but volume of fire is also a valid concern.
I might. Though the duty of a battleship is a bit different. Typically the battle line will be dealing with either the opposing battle line or with destroyer issues. 10cm firing rapidly might be more useful. And open up tonnage for more armor.
I know this ship will be around to compete with 38cm battleships, so its something I have to think about and plan for.
Of course I need to invest in at least a 35cm gun soon.
I've kept Rome on 340mm since the begining, and I dont think the L45 is a bad gun (especially since I tend to pack 12 of them) but the time nears for something bigger as well, not sure whether I will go 380 or 410.
I started the Aztecs at 28cm because it was realistic. AMD the 28/50 is plenty good for mauling cruisers. But it's getting inadequate for battleships. So I'm looking at the biggest gun I can get and try to make that jump for my next classes of ships.
Final Version of the Implacable-Class BB. As this ship is designed primarily for the Caribbean Fleet where it has high odds of running gunfights with TB and DD squadrons, the original balanced secondary of 15cm guns has been traded for a brutal secondary of 10cm guns in casemates that can be worked when the main armament is in action, as well as pairs of single enclosed mount 10cm guns on deck (a pair port and starboard at the fore and aft superstructure) that can be worked even in heavy seas but would generally be evacuated if the ship is in a main battery duel.
Implacable, Aztec Battleship laid down 1913
Displacement:
23,216 t light; 24,284 t standard; 25,296 t normal; 26,106 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(635.85 ft / 623.36 ft) x 82.02 ft x (26.64 / 27.36 ft)
(193.81 m / 190.00 m) x 25.00 m x (8.12 / 8.34 m)
Armament:
10 - 11.02" / 280 mm 50.0 cal guns - 709.07lbs / 321.63kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1913 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 50.0 cal guns - 32.30lbs / 14.65kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1913 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
2 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.09lbs / 5.03kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
2 raised mounts
4 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline, forward deck aft
4 raised mounts
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm 50.0 cal guns - 32.30lbs / 14.65kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 7,888 lbs / 3,578 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 410.11 ft / 125.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: 2.76" / 70 mm 213.25 ft / 65.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Upper: 5.91" / 150 mm 410.11 ft / 125.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.97" / 50 mm 410.11 ft / 125.00 m 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 65.62 ft / 20.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 8.86" / 225 mm 13.4" / 340 mm
2nd: 5.91" / 150 mm - 3.94" / 100 mm
5th: 2.95" / 75 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.15" / 80 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 13.39" / 340 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 51,583 shp / 38,481 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,822 tons
Complement:
1,002 - 1,303
Cost:
£2.060 million / $8.240 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,619 tons, 6.4 %
- Guns: 1,619 tons, 6.4 %
Armour: 10,999 tons, 43.5 %
- Belts: 5,055 tons, 20.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 882 tons, 3.5 %
- Armament: 2,689 tons, 10.6 %
- Armour Deck: 2,124 tons, 8.4 %
- Conning Tower: 249 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 2,021 tons, 8.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,799 tons, 30.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,079 tons, 8.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 778 tons, 3.1 %
- Hull below water: 535 tons
- Above deck: 243 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
42,506 lbs / 19,280 Kg = 63.5 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 7.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 17.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.75
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.39
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.653
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.60 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.43 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 39.14 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.43 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.99 ft / 6.40 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.9 %
Waterplane Area: 39,167 Square feet or 3,639 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 150 lbs/sq ft or 731 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.29
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
MGs are on wings of Bridge and Flag Bridge
535t below water - Electric Drives
50t - Flag Bridge
243t - 1905 Fire Direction
A good looking ship. I still think having some heavier secondaries (15cm for your guns) would be benificial as destroyers are also getting larger and a 100mm shell is not going to stop them without volume of hits, while a 150mm will still punish in one round.
In this case, I think that the light weight of the guns gives me one benefit. I did some Navweaps research, and I've now got my belt armor up to where it can resist the average 35cm shells down to about 10-11kyds. Which will do more about future proofing than 15cm casemates.
And a New Destroyer, for Caribbean use:
DD-1, Aztec Destroyer laid down 1913
Displacement:
750 t light; 779 t standard; 879 t normal; 959 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(292.24 ft / 287.40 ft) x 27.89 ft x (8.92 / 9.48 ft)
(89.07 m / 87.60 m) x 8.50 m x (2.72 / 2.89 m)
Armament:
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm 50.0 cal guns - 32.30lbs / 14.65kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 129 lbs / 59 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 19,212 shp / 14,332 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 2,650nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 180 tons
Complement:
79 - 104
Cost:
£0.107 million / $0.426 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 26 tons, 2.9 %
- Guns: 26 tons, 2.9 %
Armour: 9 tons, 1.0 %
- Armament: 9 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 460 tons, 52.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 239 tons, 27.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 128 tons, 14.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 16 tons, 1.8 %
- On freeboard deck: 16 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
281 lbs / 127 Kg = 9.2 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.43
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 10.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.17
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.06
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.430 / 0.442
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.31 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 16.95 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 8.04 ft / 2.45 m, 8.04 ft / 2.45 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 8.04 ft / 2.45 m, 8.04 ft / 2.45 m
- Average freeboard: 12.35 ft / 3.77 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 177.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144.4 %
Waterplane Area: 5,033 Square feet or 468 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 55 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 126 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.86
- Overall: 0.57
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
16t on deck for 4 twin TT, 2 pairs per side.
The Aztec Empire, considering its ambitions to expand into the Pacific and colonize, commissions a design for a fast light cruiser that has trans-oceanic unrefueled range:
CL-1, Aztec Light Cruiser laid down 1913
Displacement:
5,559 t light; 5,763 t standard; 6,221 t normal; 6,586 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(469.93 ft / 462.60 ft) x 45.11 ft x (19.69 / 20.58 ft)
(143.23 m / 141.00 m) x 13.75 m x (6.00 / 6.27 m)
Armament:
6 - 5.91" / 150 mm 50.0 cal guns - 109.02lbs / 49.45kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
5 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
2 raised mounts - superfiring
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck forward
6 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.09lbs / 5.03kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
2 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward deck aft
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 721 lbs / 327 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 131 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.77" / 45 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.26" / 32 mm
Forecastle: 0.00" / 0 mm Quarter deck: 0.79" / 20 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.15" / 80 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 3 shafts, 54,411 shp / 40,590 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 7,800nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 823 tons
Complement:
349 - 455
Cost:
£0.617 million / $2.468 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 208 tons, 3.3 %
- Guns: 208 tons, 3.3 %
Armour: 813 tons, 13.1 %
- Belts: 399 tons, 6.4 %
- Armament: 98 tons, 1.6 %
- Armour Deck: 294 tons, 4.7 %
- Conning Tower: 23 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,132 tons, 34.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,949 tons, 31.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 662 tons, 10.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 457 tons, 7.3 %
- Hull below water: 412 tons
- Above deck: 45 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4,242 lbs / 1,924 Kg = 41.2 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 13.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.11
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.530 / 0.537
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.25 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.51 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.36 ft / 5.29 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 129.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131.9 %
Waterplane Area: 14,294 Square feet or 1,328 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 78 lbs/sq ft or 381 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.90
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
396t-Electric Drives
16t - 4tt, 8 torpedoes
20t- 1905 FC
25t- LR Radio
Gun Arrangement - AB(s)C, Q, X(s)Y
32mm box around Steering Gear
And a combination Scout Cruiser and DD Leader
SC-1, Aztec Scout Cruiser laid down 1913
Displacement:
2,515 t light; 2,591 t standard; 2,739 t normal; 2,857 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(387.33 ft / 380.58 ft) x 32.81 ft x (14.76 / 15.25 ft)
(118.06 m / 116.00 m) x 10.00 m x (4.50 / 4.65 m)
Armament:
6 - 3.94" / 100 mm 50.0 cal guns - 32.30lbs / 14.65kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
6 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
2 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 194 lbs / 88 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.36" / 60 mm 318.24 ft / 97.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Ends: 0.98" / 25 mm 62.34 ft / 19.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Main Belt covers 129 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.36" / 60 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 2.36" / 60 mm
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.10" / 28 mm
Forecastle: 0.00" / 0 mm Quarter deck: 0.79" / 20 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.36" / 60 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 26,287 shp / 19,610 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 266 tons
Complement:
189 - 246
Cost:
£0.276 million / $1.103 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 60 tons, 2.2 %
- Guns: 60 tons, 2.2 %
Armour: 461 tons, 16.8 %
- Belts: 260 tons, 9.5 %
- Armament: 37 tons, 1.4 %
- Armour Deck: 154 tons, 5.6 %
- Conning Tower: 10 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,027 tons, 37.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 929 tons, 33.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 224 tons, 8.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 38 tons, 1.4 %
- Hull below water: 8 tons
- Above deck: 30 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,865 lbs / 846 Kg = 61.1 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 13.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.520 / 0.525
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.60 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.51 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 14.07 ft / 4.29 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 129.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116.4 %
Waterplane Area: 8,473 Square feet or 787 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 56 lbs/sq ft or 275 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.03
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
8t- 2 TT 4 torpedoes
5t - Fire Control
25t - LR Radio
28mm box around steering gear
IMO the scout is about 2-3knts to slow.
QuoteMain Belt covers 129 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
Belt too short
Quote- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.03
- Overall: 1.00
If I remember well, overall could be 0.9 for this kind of cruiser.
Range 4000nm is perhaps short in 1912
Yeah, looking back at the scout cruiser, I had been trying to build within a certain dock size in order to maximize production. Only problem is that it doesn't seem like I can get a cruiser-built ship of that size with 30-31kt top speed. And trying to finagle that speed, along with a caribbean-adequate 5000nm range, I'm just not able to even get a ship with .9 that can isn't wholly inadequate somewhere.
Plus, with my 750t DD having 4 x 10cm guns, a 6x10cm gunned CL does seem a bit on the 'light' side.
Given my limited time per day (stupid riot control duty), I think this is as good as this concept is going to get. And yes, I'm constrained by my desire to not use my 150m docks for building what are in essence destroyer leaders and Caribbean cruisers.
SC-1, Aztec Scout Cruiser laid down 1913
Displacement:
3,178 t light; 3,274 t standard; 3,718 t normal; 4,073 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(387.64 ft / 380.58 ft) x 34.45 ft x (18.04 / 19.47 ft)
(118.15 m / 116.00 m) x 10.50 m x (5.50 / 5.93 m)
Armament:
6 - 3.94" / 100 mm 50.0 cal guns - 32.30lbs / 14.65kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
6 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
2 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 194 lbs / 88 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 374.02 ft / 114.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 151 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.36" / 60 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 2.36" / 60 mm
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 0.79" / 20 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.97" / 50 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 43,455 shp / 32,417 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 799 tons
Complement:
237 - 309
Cost:
£0.399 million / $1.596 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 60 tons, 1.6 %
- Guns: 60 tons, 1.6 %
Armour: 387 tons, 10.4 %
- Belts: 229 tons, 6.2 %
- Armament: 38 tons, 1.0 %
- Armour Deck: 109 tons, 2.9 %
- Conning Tower: 10 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 1,668 tons, 44.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,026 tons, 27.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 540 tons, 14.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 38 tons, 1.0 %
- Hull below water: 8 tons
- Above deck: 30 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,638 lbs / 743 Kg = 53.7 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.28
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.06
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.558
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.05 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.51 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 21.46 ft / 6.54 m, 17.55 ft / 5.35 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 17.55 ft / 5.35 m, 13.65 ft / 4.16 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.65 ft / 4.16 m, 13.65 ft / 4.16 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.65 ft / 4.16 m, 13.65 ft / 4.16 m
- Average freeboard: 15.33 ft / 4.67 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 150.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 107.0 %
Waterplane Area: 9,150 Square feet or 850 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 54 lbs/sq ft or 266 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.82
- Longitudinal: 2.32
- Overall: 0.91
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
8t- 2 TT 4 torpedoes
5t - Fire Control
25t - LR Radio
For small fry like this, armor can be wasted, I would increase the protected deck to 30mm and dump the belts.
Had a few minutes, this should fix a lot of the issues.
SC-1, Aztec Scout Cruiser laid down 1913
Displacement:
3,157 t light; 3,261 t standard; 3,750 t normal; 4,141 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(387.64 ft / 383.86 ft) x 34.45 ft x (18.04 / 19.53 ft)
(118.15 m / 117.00 m) x 10.50 m x (5.50 / 5.95 m)
Armament:
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm 50.0 cal guns - 32.30lbs / 14.65kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
2 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 258 lbs / 117 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.76" / 70 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.18" / 30 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.76" / 70 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 43,429 shp / 32,398 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 5,500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 880 tons
Complement:
239 - 311
Cost:
£0.407 million / $1.628 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 80 tons, 2.1 %
- Guns: 80 tons, 2.1 %
Armour: 249 tons, 6.6 %
- Armament: 69 tons, 1.8 %
- Armour Deck: 165 tons, 4.4 %
- Conning Tower: 14 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,677 tons, 44.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,097 tons, 29.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 592 tons, 15.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 54 tons, 1.4 %
- On freeboard deck: 16 tons
- Above deck: 38 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,671 lbs / 758 Kg = 54.8 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.561
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.14 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.59 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 21.46 ft / 6.54 m, 17.55 ft / 5.35 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 17.55 ft / 5.35 m, 13.65 ft / 4.16 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.65 ft / 4.16 m, 13.65 ft / 4.16 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.65 ft / 4.16 m, 13.65 ft / 4.16 m
- Average freeboard: 15.33 ft / 4.67 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 151.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 107.0 %
Waterplane Area: 9,229 Square feet or 857 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 94 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 58 lbs/sq ft or 284 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.86
- Longitudinal: 2.36
- Overall: 0.95
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
16t - 4 x 2TT on sides (1 pair between Q and R Mounts, 1 pair Beside X Mount
13t - Fire Control
25t - LR Radio
12t - Bridge Expansion for DD Division Leader
Mounts (enclosed) - A, B(s), Q, R, X(s), Y, Mounts on sides are athwart bridge superstructure
After some advice from Foxy, the final version of the Scout Cruiser. A LOT more range, more torpedoes in exchange for those odd 10cm mounts. Now it's a Fleet scout and DD leader that can take over DD functions in the Pacific theater....or function as a light fast raider if need be.
SC-1, Aztec Scout Cruiser laid down 1913
Displacement:
3,096 t light; 3,193 t standard; 3,750 t normal; 4,195 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(387.04 ft / 383.86 ft) x 34.45 ft x (18.04 / 19.73 ft)
(117.97 m / 117.00 m) x 10.50 m x (5.50 / 6.02 m)
Armament:
6 - 3.94" / 100 mm 50.0 cal guns - 32.30lbs / 14.65kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
6 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
2 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 194 lbs / 88 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.76" / 70 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.18" / 30 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.76" / 70 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 43,429 shp / 32,398 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 9,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,003 tons
Complement:
239 - 311
Cost:
£0.398 million / $1.594 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 60 tons, 1.6 %
- Guns: 60 tons, 1.6 %
Armour: 232 tons, 6.2 %
- Armament: 52 tons, 1.4 %
- Armour Deck: 165 tons, 4.4 %
- Conning Tower: 14 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,685 tons, 44.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,055 tons, 28.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 654 tons, 17.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 64 tons, 1.7 %
- On freeboard deck: 24 tons
- Above deck: 40 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,675 lbs / 760 Kg = 54.9 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.08
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.563
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.14 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.59 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Average freeboard: 15.47 ft / 4.72 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 150.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.4 %
Waterplane Area: 9,229 Square feet or 857 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 55 lbs/sq ft or 269 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.82
- Longitudinal: 2.34
- Overall: 0.91
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
24t - 6 x 2TT on sides (3 twin mounts per side)
13t - Fire Control
25t - LR Radio
14t - Bridge Expansion for DD Division Leader
Mounts (enclosed) - A, B(s), Q, R, X(s), Y
While the current built program is maxxing out capacity for the Sultanate, design studies have been started for the next generation of Aztec Battleship. The first concept, a rugged ship designed for Caribbean Operations.
BB-X, Aztec Battleship laid down 1916
Displacement:
28,535 t light; 30,277 t standard; 31,948 t normal; 33,286 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(584.46 ft / 574.15 ft) x 91.86 ft x (29.53 / 30.62 ft)
(178.14 m / 175.00 m) x 28.00 m x (9.00 / 9.33 m)
Armament:
12 - 14.17" / 360 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,435.69lbs / 651.22kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1916 Model
4 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
14 - 3.94" / 100 mm 50.0 cal guns - 32.30lbs / 14.65kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1916 Model
8 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 17,681 lbs / 8,020 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 114 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 65.62 ft / 20.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 16.5" / 420 mm 6.69" / 170 mm 15.7" / 400 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm 1.38" / 35 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 4.53" / 115 mm
Forecastle: 0.00" / 0 mm Quarter deck: 3.35" / 85 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 16.54" / 420 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 38,018 shp / 28,361 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,009 tons
Complement:
1,194 - 1,553
Cost:
£4.668 million / $18.672 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,707 tons, 11.6 %
- Guns: 3,707 tons, 11.6 %
Armour: 12,153 tons, 38.0 %
- Belts: 3,807 tons, 11.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 602 tons, 1.9 %
- Armament: 4,085 tons, 12.8 %
- Armour Deck: 3,301 tons, 10.3 %
- Conning Tower: 359 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 1,416 tons, 4.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,422 tons, 32.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,414 tons, 10.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 836 tons, 2.6 %
- Hull below water: 336 tons
- Above deck: 500 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
44,752 lbs / 20,299 Kg = 31.4 x 14.2 " / 360 mm shells or 7.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 18.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1.28
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.40
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.718 / 0.721
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.25 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.96 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.40 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 23.79 ft / 7.25 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 23.79 ft / 7.25 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 39.20 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.40 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 21.08 ft / 6.43 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.0 %
Waterplane Area: 42,955 Square feet or 3,991 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 203 lbs/sq ft or 993 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.72
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
336t - Electric Drives
300t - 1910 FC
200t - Flag Facilities
Decks:
Main - 100mm w/15mm Splinter
Quarter - 70mm w/15mm Splinter
Something I remember coming up with another big armored behemoth (IIRC the Maori CrossMirage from N3) such as this was that about as thick as you could go with armor in this period for big plates of belt and deck sections is about 350mm without running into massive quality control problems (these are not as great a concern with something smaller such as a turret face). So while I dont think the 400mm belt is impossible, it boarders on impractical IME presuming my recollection of the topic is accurate.
That said, its a tough nut to crack and makes me glad I have 410mm guns in the pipe now. More comments when its not super late at night.
Quote from: snip on July 21, 2020, 12:47:29 AM
Something I remember coming up with another big armored behemoth (IIRC the Maori CrossMirage from N3) such as this was that about as thick as you could go with armor in this period for big plates of belt and deck sections is about 350mm without running into massive quality control problems (these are not as great a concern with something smaller such as a turret face). So while I dont think the 400mm belt is impossible, it boarders on impractical IME presuming my recollection of the topic is accurate.
That said, its a tough nut to crack and makes me glad I have 410mm guns in the pipe now. More comments when its not super late at night.
That's something that came up on Wesworld as well.
It's not really discussed in detail in N7 that I know of and basically is a realism consideration.
From what I recall, the quality control issue leads to more rejects. Plus, the thickness in excess of 350mm is less effective than expected.
So 350mm = 350mm. 360mm = 358mm? type thing. Still, you see various ships with more because sometimes that's the only real option.
I don't know if naval armor caused the 'shatter gap' effect, probably not as naval shells were slower than HV tank rounds.
For my part I'm not going to do that math for any combats... the belt+ (any protected deck/2) is enough extra figuring :)
As a realsim matter it's a good reason to transition to interior belts and exterior decapping plates, which is a later tech. Ironically while the Italians specified the exterior plate for use as a decapper, the Americans kinda got there by accident, seeking to prevent outboard flotation loss with modest armoring of the outer shell.
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on July 21, 2020, 08:16:40 PM
Quote from: snip on July 21, 2020, 12:47:29 AM
Something I remember coming up with another big armored behemoth (IIRC the Maori CrossMirage from N3) such as this was that about as thick as you could go with armor in this period for big plates of belt and deck sections is about 350mm without running into massive quality control problems (these are not as great a concern with something smaller such as a turret face). So while I dont think the 400mm belt is impossible, it boarders on impractical IME presuming my recollection of the topic is accurate.
That said, its a tough nut to crack and makes me glad I have 410mm guns in the pipe now. More comments when its not super late at night.
That's something that came up on Wesworld as well.
It's not really discussed in detail in N7 that I know of and basically is a realism consideration.
From what I recall, the quality control issue leads to more rejects. Plus, the thickness in excess of 350mm is less effective than expected.
So 350mm = 350mm. 360mm = 358mm? type thing. Still, you see various ships with more because sometimes that's the only real option.
I don't know if naval armor caused the 'shatter gap' effect, probably not as naval shells were slower than HV tank rounds.
For my part I'm not going to do that math for any combats... the belt+ (any protected deck/2) is enough extra figuring :)
As a realsim matter it's a good reason to transition to interior belts and exterior decapping plates, which is a later tech. Ironically while the Italians specified the exterior plate for use as a decapper, the Americans kinda got there by accident, seeking to prevent outboard flotation loss with modest armoring of the outer shell.
Well, this one is a design study. And maybe a 50mm splinter bulkhead behind a 350mm belt?
Quote from: TacCovert4 on July 21, 2020, 10:15:10 PM
Well, this one is a design study. And maybe a 50mm splinter bulkhead behind a 350mm belt?
On the one hand a similar armor arrangement was tried on the
Gangut class.
but I have a feeling that multi-layer armor systems fall afoul of the intent with placing the interior belts as a higher tech..
The period approach would be to have "protective deck -multiple decks" which best describes the
Pennsylvania class this seems to Echo.
Then you define the lowest protective deck as behind the belt and Xmm thick.
With 88% hull space, you're well within the margins.
The 100mm guns are really a little light. For a 1916 ship you're looking at FC out to 12km, and wanting to seriously damage a 1000ton DD, or a cruiser. 100mm won't be very effective.
Redesigned. Trying for the epitome of 'slow and tough'.
BB-X, Aztec Battleship laid down 1916
Displacement:
28,018 t light; 29,834 t standard; 31,098 t normal; 32,109 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(565.07 ft / 557.74 ft) x 91.86 ft x (30.35 / 31.21 ft)
(172.23 m / 170.00 m) x 28.00 m x (9.25 / 9.51 m)
Armament:
12 - 14.17" / 360 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,435.70lbs / 651.22kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1916 Model
4 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 50.0 cal guns - 32.30lbs / 14.65kg shells, 160 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 17,745 lbs / 8,049 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 459.32 ft / 140.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 127 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.97" / 50 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 52.49 ft / 16.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 6.30" / 160 mm 13.8" / 350 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
- Protected deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 6.30" / 160 mm
Forecastle: 2.36" / 60 mm Quarter deck: 2.36" / 60 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 13.78" / 350 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 45,034 shp / 33,595 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,275 tons
Complement:
1,170 - 1,522
Cost:
£4.709 million / $18.836 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,726 tons, 12.0 %
- Guns: 3,726 tons, 12.0 %
Armour: 12,091 tons, 38.9 %
- Belts: 3,509 tons, 11.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 713 tons, 2.3 %
- Armament: 3,322 tons, 10.7 %
- Armour Deck: 4,253 tons, 13.7 %
- Conning Tower: 294 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,678 tons, 5.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,608 tons, 30.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,080 tons, 9.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 916 tons, 2.9 %
- Hull below water: 440 tons
- Above deck: 476 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
37,900 lbs / 17,191 Kg = 26.6 x 14.2 " / 360 mm shells or 6.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.03
Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 17.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.94
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.700 / 0.703
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.07 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.81 ft / 5.43 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 119.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 114.7 %
Waterplane Area: 41,067 Square feet or 3,815 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 203 lbs/sq ft or 989 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.45
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
420t - Electric Drives
20t - Additional DC Pumps
100t - Flag Facilities
376t - 1910 FC
Forecastle and Quarterdeck - Single 60mm Deck slopes and flat.
F/A Deck:
Main - 100mm flat, 150mm slopes (slopes behind above-water portion of belt)
Splinter - 25mm flat, 40mm slopes (slopes meet bottom of belt)
As for the secbat being 'light'....that's unfortunately a function of my available guns. I can either go with a 15cm gun or a 10cm gun. The former is a bit slow for taking on destroyers and torpedo boats, a major threat in the Caribbean. The latter too light for taking on cruisers, though 36cm HE could be used for cruisers. So given the theater of operations, and the fact that shell splashes of 10 and 15 centimeter guns are just too alike to use a mixed battery effectively, 10cm is the better solution for now, though hopefully a 12 or 13 centimeter gun would be ready by any mid-life refit.
I think your TDS is too deep, your unnecessarily cramping the rest of the internals. Make your beam between bulkheads something in the 22m range (look for when it starts getting the Machinery, Storage, Compartmentalization space below 100% at least) and use the saved length from that on the main belt to make it taller. That might also help with getting you a larger sability cushion than .03 befor there might be trouble.
Quote from: snip on July 22, 2020, 10:04:38 AM
I think your TDS is too deep, your unnecessarily cramping the rest of the internals. Make your beam between bulkheads something in the 22m range (look for when it starts getting the Machinery, Storage, Compartmentalization space below 100% at least) and use the saved length from that on the main belt to make it taller. That might also help with getting you a larger sability cushion than .03 befor there might be trouble.
Bumping it to 22m beam, I can shorten my belt to 110m with plenty of room to spare on the essential spaces. And take my belt height to 5m, so 2 full decks high.......still does nothing for stability. Something about these short-fat-slow BBs, stability is just a nightmare to work out.
IMO, you could have better BB with some adjustments...
Sorry, no vexation
;)
Displacement:
28,018 t light; 29,834 t standard; 31,098 t normal; 32,109 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(565.07 ft / 557.74 ft) x 91.86 ft x (30.35 / 31.21 ft)
(172.23 m / 170.00 m) x 28.00 m x (9.25 / 9.51 m)
Armament:
12 - 14.17" / 360 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,435.70lbs / 651.22kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1916 Model
4 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 50.0 cal guns - 32.30lbs / 14.65kg shells, 160 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 17,745 lbs / 8,049 kg
Use 150/45 (1905) of the Saladin class for secondary
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 459.32 ft / 140.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 127 % of normal length => 127% is too much
Add Ends: 4.72" / 120 mm ft / m ft / m
Add Upper: 4.72" / 120 mm ft / m ft / m
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.97" / 50 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 22.97 ft / 7.00 m => 28.35ft
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 52.49 ft / 16.00 m => 22.00m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 6.30" / 160 mm 13.8" / 350 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
- Protected deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 6.30" / 160 mm => 100 to 120 There is no naval bombers in 1916
Forecastle: 2.36" / 60 mm Quarter deck: 2.36" / 60 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 13.78" / 350 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm => 150 to 200
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 45,034 shp / 33,595 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,275 tons
Complement:
1,170 - 1,522
Cost:
£4.709 million / $18.836 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,726 tons, 12.0 %
- Guns: 3,726 tons, 12.0 %
Armour: 12,091 tons, 38.9 %
- Belts: 3,509 tons, 11.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 713 tons, 2.3 %
- Armament: 3,322 tons, 10.7 %
- Armour Deck: 4,253 tons, 13.7 %
- Conning Tower: 294 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,678 tons, 5.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,608 tons, 30.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,080 tons, 9.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 916 tons, 2.9 %
- Hull below water: 440 tons
- Above deck: 476 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
37,900 lbs / 17,191 Kg = 26.6 x 14.2 " / 360 mm shells or 6.2 torpedoes
Survivability is not top, you could have certainly 20,000 Kg
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.03 => not enough
Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 17.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.94 => too high, your hull is mechanical stressed
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.700 / 0.703 => too high
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.07 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.81 ft / 5.43 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 119.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 114.7 %
Waterplane Area: 41,067 Square feet or 3,815 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 203 lbs/sq ft or 989 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.45
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
=> you could certainly have:
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Quote from: Jefgte on July 22, 2020, 04:20:48 PM
IMO, you could have better BB with some adjustments...
Sorry, no vexation
;)
Displacement:
28,018 t light; 29,834 t standard; 31,098 t normal; 32,109 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(565.07 ft / 557.74 ft) x 91.86 ft x (30.35 / 31.21 ft)
(172.23 m / 170.00 m) x 28.00 m x (9.25 / 9.51 m)
Armament:
12 - 14.17" / 360 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,435.70lbs / 651.22kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1916 Model
4 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 50.0 cal guns - 32.30lbs / 14.65kg shells, 160 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 17,745 lbs / 8,049 kg
Use 150/45 (1905) of the Saladin class for secondary
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 459.32 ft / 140.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 127 % of normal length => 127% is too much
Add Ends: 4.72" / 120 mm ft / m ft / m
Add Upper: 4.72" / 120 mm ft / m ft / m
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.97" / 50 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 22.97 ft / 7.00 m => 28.35ft
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 52.49 ft / 16.00 m => 22.00m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 6.30" / 160 mm 13.8" / 350 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
- Protected deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 6.30" / 160 mm => 100 to 120 There is no naval bombers in 1916
Forecastle: 2.36" / 60 mm Quarter deck: 2.36" / 60 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 13.78" / 350 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm => 150 to 200
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 45,034 shp / 33,595 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,275 tons
Complement:
1,170 - 1,522
Cost:
£4.709 million / $18.836 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,726 tons, 12.0 %
- Guns: 3,726 tons, 12.0 %
Armour: 12,091 tons, 38.9 %
- Belts: 3,509 tons, 11.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 713 tons, 2.3 %
- Armament: 3,322 tons, 10.7 %
- Armour Deck: 4,253 tons, 13.7 %
- Conning Tower: 294 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,678 tons, 5.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,608 tons, 30.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,080 tons, 9.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 916 tons, 2.9 %
- Hull below water: 440 tons
- Above deck: 476 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
37,900 lbs / 17,191 Kg = 26.6 x 14.2 " / 360 mm shells or 6.2 torpedoes
Survivability is not top, you could have certainly 20,000 Kg
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.03 => not enough
Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 17.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.94 => too high, your hull is mechanical stressed
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.700 / 0.703 => too high
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.07 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.81 ft / 5.43 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 119.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 114.7 %
Waterplane Area: 41,067 Square feet or 3,815 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 203 lbs/sq ft or 989 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.45
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
=> you could certainly have:
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
On the matter of the stability, and mechanical stresses, I think that's just going to come down to sheer mass at play. Every time I fiddle with this design, it just doesn't change anything notable without screwing up something else pretty badly. I think I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and either pull a whole turret off, or raise the tonnage to 30,000t-31,000t. The 27-28kt range is just too light to get 12 x 36cm guns, plus a secondary of any worth, plus heavy armor.....and have a ship that is stable and not mechanically stressed.
As you can see......far better seakeeping and finer lines, and even better armor distribution (depending on opinion). But stability is still marginal and mechanical stress is still pretty garbage. I think that ultimately I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and accept that I can't get an adequate battleship, even a slow one, on less than 30,000t. I'm going to have to make major sacrifices somewhere.
BB-X, Aztec Battleship laid down 1916
Displacement:
27,613 t light; 29,419 t standard; 30,575 t normal; 31,500 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(587.46 ft / 580.71 ft) x 91.86 ft x (30.35 / 31.13 ft)
(179.06 m / 177.00 m) x 28.00 m x (9.25 / 9.49 m)
Armament:
12 - 14.17" / 360 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,435.69lbs / 651.22kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1916 Model
4 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 50.0 cal guns - 32.30lbs / 14.65kg shells, 160 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 17,745 lbs / 8,049 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 459.32 ft / 140.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 4.72" / 120 mm 98.43 ft / 30.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
22.97 ft / 7.00 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 122 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.97" / 50 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 72.18 ft / 22.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 6.30" / 160 mm 13.8" / 350 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
- Protected deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 4.72" / 120 mm
Forecastle: 2.36" / 60 mm Quarter deck: 2.36" / 60 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 11.81" / 300 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 43,179 shp / 32,212 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 5,500nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,081 tons
Complement:
1,155 - 1,502
Cost:
£4.670 million / $18.680 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,726 tons, 12.2 %
- Guns: 3,726 tons, 12.2 %
Armour: 11,513 tons, 37.7 %
- Belts: 3,730 tons, 12.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 917 tons, 3.0 %
- Armament: 3,322 tons, 10.9 %
- Armour Deck: 3,295 tons, 10.8 %
- Conning Tower: 249 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 1,609 tons, 5.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,849 tons, 32.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,962 tons, 9.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 916 tons, 3.0 %
- Hull below water: 440 tons
- Above deck: 476 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
37,339 lbs / 16,937 Kg = 26.2 x 14.2 " / 360 mm shells or 6.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.02
Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 18.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.99
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.661 / 0.664
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.32 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.10 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.55 ft / 5.35 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116.8 %
Waterplane Area: 41,279 Square feet or 3,835 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 205 lbs/sq ft or 999 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.50
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
420t - Electric Drives
20t - Additional DC Pumps
100t - Flag Facilities
376t - 1910 FC
Forecastle and Quarterdeck - Single 60mm Deck slopes and flat.
F/A Deck:
Main - 80mm flat, 120mm slopes (slopes behind above-water portion of belt)
Splinter - 20mm
Quote from: TacCovert4 on July 23, 2020, 09:49:17 AM
As you can see......far better seakeeping and finer lines, and even better armor distribution (depending on opinion). But stability is still marginal and mechanical stress is still pretty garbage. I think that ultimately I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and accept that I can't get an adequate battleship, even a slow one, on less than 30,000t. I'm going to have to make major sacrifices somewhere.
I'm not sure why you're having stability issues.
My
Tiamat class is only 1400 tons heavier, a little slower, wider, more heavily armed, 450 tons less armor (differently arranged), and 1.15 stability with a slow & easy role.
Best guess is your hull is too narrow and too long.
Pennsylvania was 29.6m wide, you're only 28m.
On the Hull Tab - try clicking on Normal Tonnage. That will lock that.
Then go add 4m to the hull width and see what happens.
Your BC should plummet, your seakeeping may still be ok.
You may need to shave some deck armor further to make weight,
or since your hull speed is 24, but you're only going 22, you could reduce your hull length.
Ships like this make me wish we had a bathymetric map in use.
Historically the depth would impose a number of restrictions on different navies, the Aztec being one.
I've read the USN for a while limited the max depth as 7.5m to allow working off the mexican shore. Likewise the baltic is shallow, Suez wasn't yet passable to this depth, there were restrictions in Indonesia, and many harbors couldn't take deep hulls. All of which falls under the category of nitpicking record keeping Snip has saved you from :)
I still can't figure out why your ship was having it's problems.
I suspect the program is having a conniption fit over something.
Anyhow, I tried putting it in from scratch, and building the hull the Parthian way....short and beamy.
I got your ship down to 27,000 tons, good seakeeping, slow & easy roll, and 1.20 stability.
Chalchiuhticue, Aztec Parthian Gilgamesh laid down 1916
Displacement:
27,000 t light; 28,795 t standard; 29,962 t normal; 30,895 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(535.99 ft / 524.93 ft) x 104.99 ft x (30.35 / 31.14 ft)
(163.37 m / 160.00 m) x 32.00 m x (9.25 / 9.49 m)
Armament:
12 - 14.17" / 360 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,435.21lbs / 651.00kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1916 Model
4 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 50.0 cal guns - 33.07lbs / 15.00kg shells, 160 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1916 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 17,752 lbs / 8,052 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 341.21 ft / 104.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 4.72" / 120 mm 183.69 ft / 55.99 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.97" / 50 mm 341.21 ft / 104.00 m 29.10 ft / 8.87 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 78.74 ft / 24.00 m
- Hull void:
0.00" / 0 mm 0.00 ft / 0.00 m 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 6.30" / 160 mm 13.8" / 350 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
- Protected deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 4.72" / 120 mm
Forecastle: 2.36" / 60 mm Quarter deck: 2.36" / 60 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 13.78" / 350 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 45,074 shp / 33,625 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 5,655nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,100 tons
Complement:
1,138 - 1,480
Cost:
£4.651 million / $18.604 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,726 tons, 12.4 %
- Guns: 3,726 tons, 12.4 %
Armour: 10,870 tons, 36.3 %
- Belts: 3,245 tons, 10.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 723 tons, 2.4 %
- Armament: 3,314 tons, 11.1 %
- Armour Deck: 3,301 tons, 11.0 %
- Conning Tower: 286 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 1,679 tons, 5.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,476 tons, 31.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,961 tons, 9.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,249 tons, 4.2 %
- Hull below water: 451 tons
- Hull void weights: 300 tons
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons
- Above deck: 398 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
42,590 lbs / 19,319 Kg = 29.9 x 14.2 " / 360 mm shells or 7.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 7.5 ft / 2.3 m
Roll period: 16.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.32
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.627 / 0.630
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.91 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 25.49 ft / 7.77 m, 23.85 ft / 7.27 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 23.85 ft / 7.27 m, 20.57 ft / 6.27 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 20.57 ft / 6.27 m, 20.57 ft / 6.27 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 20.57 ft / 6.27 m, 20.57 ft / 6.27 m
- Average freeboard: 21.85 ft / 6.66 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 147.6 %
Waterplane Area: 41,333 Square feet or 3,840 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 200 lbs/sq ft or 975 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.29
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
431t- Turbogenerators
20t - additional DC pumps
100t - flag facilities
373t - 1910 FC
25t - LR radio
Forecastle & Quarterdeck - single 60mm deck slopes and flat.
F/A Deck
Main Armored Deck : 100mm
Lower splinter deck : 20mm