To have an uniform battle squadron speed of 21kts, I test a possible refurbishment of 1896 18kts Barbarossa class.
Refurbishment:
New 1910 engines
New 13"5 40cal (was 35cal)
Freeboard increase by 1'
Draught decrease by 1'
Add external torpedo bulkhead 1'
Misc weight adjusted for overall 1
Barbarossa, Byzantine Empire BB2 laid down 1896 (Engine 1910)
Displacement:
15 200 t light; 16 233 t standard; 16 987 t normal; 17 590 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(491,00 ft / 480,00 ft) x 79,00 ft x (25,05 / 25,79 ft)
(149,66 m / 146,30 m) x 24,08 m x (7,63 / 7,86 m)
Armament:
4 - 13,50" / 343 mm 40,0 cal guns - 1 179,03lbs / 534,80kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1910 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 9,20" / 234 mm 45,0 cal guns - 392,67lbs / 178,11kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model
4 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
10 - 6,00" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,93lbs / 49,41kg shells, 220 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1896 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,62lbs / 6,18kg shells, 300 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model
16 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
16 raised mounts
4 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 2 000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 9 165 lbs / 4 157 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11,8" / 300 mm 312,00 ft / 95,10 m 11,00 ft / 3,35 m
Ends: 4,72" / 120 mm 168,00 ft / 51,21 m 7,00 ft / 2,13 m
Upper: 5,92" / 150 mm 312,00 ft / 95,10 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
1,00" / 25 mm 312,00 ft / 95,10 m 23,00 ft / 7,01 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 79,00 ft / 24,08 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13,4" / 340 mm 5,92" / 150 mm 12,6" / 320 mm
2nd: 5,92" / 150 mm 2,55" / 65 mm 4,72" / 120 mm
3rd: 4,72" / 120 mm 1,97" / 50 mm -
4th: 0,50" / 13 mm - -
5th: 0,50" / 13 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2,55" / 65 mm
Forecastle: 1,37" / 35 mm Quarter deck: 1,37" / 35 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 11,80" / 300 mm, Aft 5,92" / 150 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 26 814 ihp / 20 003 Kw = 21,05 kts
Range 4 500nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 357 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
743 - 967
Cost:
£1,544 million / $6,174 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1 647 tons, 9,7 %
- Guns: 1 647 tons, 9,7 %
Armour: 5 767 tons, 33,9 %
- Belts: 2 649 tons, 15,6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 266 tons, 1,6 %
- Armament: 1 370 tons, 8,1 %
- Armour Deck: 1 231 tons, 7,2 %
- Conning Towers: 252 tons, 1,5 %
Machinery: 1 886 tons, 11,1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 211 tons, 30,7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 787 tons, 10,5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 689 tons, 4,1 %
- Hull below water: 24 tons
- Hull above water: 175 tons
- On freeboard deck: 300 tons
- Above deck: 190 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
20 539 lbs / 9 316 Kg = 16,7 x 13,5 " / 343 mm shells or 3,4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,19
Metacentric height 4,8 ft / 1,5 m
Roll period: 15,1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 65 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,63
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,25
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,626 / 0,630
Length to Beam Ratio: 6,08 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21,91 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1,00 ft / 0,30 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 17,50 %, 18,72 ft / 5,71 m, 16,43 ft / 5,01 m
- Forward deck: 30,00 %, 16,43 ft / 5,01 m, 15,45 ft / 4,71 m
- Aft deck: 35,00 %, 15,45 ft / 4,71 m, 15,45 ft / 4,71 m
- Quarter deck: 17,50 %, 15,45 ft / 4,71 m, 15,45 ft / 4,71 m
- Average freeboard: 15,93 ft / 4,85 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78,8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 114,2 %
Waterplane Area: 28 413 Square feet or 2 640 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 159 lbs/sq ft or 776 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,94
- Longitudinal: 1,79
- Overall: 1,00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
24t for 4TT x18'' + 4 reloads
100t for additionnal air ventillation
100t for additionnal pumps installation
165t for fire control
100t for Admiral staff
50t for 2x Marconi
150t reserved
---------
Barbarossa as built
Barbarossa, Byzantine Empire BB2 laid down 1896
Displacement:
15 650 t light; 16 691 t standard; 17 666 t normal; 18 447 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(491,00 ft / 480,00 ft) x 79,00 ft x (26,05 / 27,01 ft)
(149,66 m / 146,30 m) x 24,08 m x (7,94 / 8,23 m)
Armament:
4 - 13,50" / 343 mm 35,0 cal guns - 1 153,48lbs / 523,21kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 9,20" / 234 mm 45,0 cal guns - 392,67lbs / 178,11kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model
4 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
10 - 6,00" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,93lbs / 49,41kg shells, 220 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1896 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,62lbs / 6,18kg shells, 300 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model
16 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
16 raised mounts
4 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 50,0 cal guns - 0,01lbs / 0,00kg shells, 2 000 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 9 063 lbs / 4 111 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11,8" / 300 mm 312,00 ft / 95,10 m 11,00 ft / 3,35 m
Ends: 4,72" / 120 mm 168,00 ft / 51,21 m 7,00 ft / 2,13 m
Upper: 5,92" / 150 mm 312,00 ft / 95,10 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13,4" / 340 mm 5,92" / 150 mm 12,6" / 320 mm
2nd: 5,92" / 150 mm 2,55" / 65 mm 4,72" / 120 mm
3rd: 4,72" / 120 mm 1,97" / 50 mm -
4th: 0,50" / 13 mm - -
5th: 0,50" / 13 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2,55" / 65 mm
Forecastle: 1,37" / 35 mm Quarter deck: 1,37" / 35 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 11,80" / 300 mm, Aft 5,92" / 150 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 15 200 ihp / 11 339 Kw = 18,05 kts
Range 4 500nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 756 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
766 - 996
Cost:
£1,629 million / $6,517 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1 543 tons, 8,7 %
- Guns: 1 543 tons, 8,7 %
Armour: 5 461 tons, 30,9 %
- Belts: 2 643 tons, 15,0 %
- Armament: 1 329 tons, 7,5 %
- Armour Deck: 1 231 tons, 7,0 %
- Conning Towers: 259 tons, 1,5 %
Machinery: 2 789 tons, 15,8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 338 tons, 30,2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 016 tons, 11,4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 519 tons, 2,9 %
- Hull below water: 24 tons
- Hull above water: 75 tons
- On freeboard deck: 240 tons
- Above deck: 180 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
18 360 lbs / 8 328 Kg = 14,9 x 13,5 " / 343 mm shells or 2,3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23
Metacentric height 5,1 ft / 1,6 m
Roll period: 14,7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,60
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,45
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,626 / 0,630
Length to Beam Ratio: 6,08 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21,91 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1,00 ft / 0,30 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 17,50 %, 17,72 ft / 5,40 m, 15,43 ft / 4,70 m
- Forward deck: 30,00 %, 15,43 ft / 4,70 m, 14,45 ft / 4,40 m
- Aft deck: 35,00 %, 14,45 ft / 4,40 m, 14,45 ft / 4,40 m
- Quarter deck: 17,50 %, 14,45 ft / 4,40 m, 14,45 ft / 4,40 m
- Average freeboard: 14,93 ft / 4,55 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89,0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 103,7 %
Waterplane Area: 28 413 Square feet or 2 640 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 155 lbs/sq ft or 755 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,94
- Longitudinal: 1,66
- Overall: 1,00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
24t for 4TT x18'' + 4 reloads
75t for additionnal air ventillation
75t for additionnal pumps installation
155t for fire control
100t for Admiral staff
25t for Marconi
65t reserved
Couple things
- you're increasing the gun size - 35 to 40cal, so it's a reconstruction
- what is an "external" torpedo bulkhead ?? A 25mm armor sheet on the outside of the hull?? That really won't do any good, just make large splinters to be ejected inward.
- Oddly, I am quite sure snip stated that upgrades in engines needed to be to Electric motors, he had some reason also. But I do not see that in the rules.
What exactly to do with my older vessels is something I've got ideas on. Since in N6 I had the Italians with fast ships, it was fairly simple just to have fast old BBs (20knts) turn into a "slow" 20knot DN battleline.
However, I'm sadly aware my main battery guns, in those pre-1900 slow ROF turrets, are badly out of date. I've tinkered with a couple ships, though I was thinking I had to use electric engines.
So a conversion like what you have may be on the books once the Tiamat class completes. That will give me a battleline 6 modern dreadnaughts w/integral TDS, plus the two Gilgamesh DN's with no TDS, and the older BBs and ACs may get upgrades at that time.
Barbarossa, Byzantine Empire BB2 laid down 1896 (Engine 1910)
Displacement:
15 200 t light; 16 233 t standard; 16 987 t normal; 17 590 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(491,00 ft / 480,00 ft) x 79,00 ft x (25,05 / 25,79 ft)
(149,66 m / 146,30 m) x 24,08 m x (7,63 / 7,86 m)
Armament:
4 - 13,50" / 343 mm 40,0 cal guns - 1 179,03lbs / 534,80kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1910 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 9,20" / 234 mm 45,0 cal guns - 392,67lbs / 178,11kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model
4 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
10 - 6,00" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,93lbs / 49,41kg shells, 220 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1896 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,62lbs / 6,18kg shells, 300 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model
16 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
16 raised mounts
4 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 2 000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 9 165 lbs / 4 157 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11,8" / 300 mm 312,00 ft / 95,10 m 11,00 ft / 3,35 m
Ends: 4,72" / 120 mm 168,00 ft / 51,21 m 7,00 ft / 2,13 m
Upper: 5,92" / 150 mm 312,00 ft / 95,10 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
1,50" / 38 mm 312,00 ft / 95,10 m 23,00 ft / 7,01 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 73,00 ft / 22,25 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13,4" / 340 mm 5,92" / 150 mm 12,6" / 320 mm
2nd: 5,92" / 150 mm 2,55" / 65 mm 4,72" / 120 mm
3rd: 4,72" / 120 mm 1,97" / 50 mm -
4th: 0,50" / 13 mm - -
5th: 0,50" / 13 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2,55" / 65 mm
Forecastle: 1,37" / 35 mm Quarter deck: 1,37" / 35 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 11,80" / 300 mm, Aft 5,92" / 150 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 27 000 ihp / 20 142 Kw = 21,08 kts
Range 4 500nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 357 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
743 - 967
Cost:
£1,545 million / $6,182 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1 647 tons, 9,7 %
- Guns: 1 647 tons, 9,7 %
Armour: 5 894 tons, 34,7 %
- Belts: 2 643 tons, 15,6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 398 tons, 2,3 %
- Armament: 1 370 tons, 8,1 %
- Armour Deck: 1 231 tons, 7,2 %
- Conning Towers: 252 tons, 1,5 %
Machinery: 1 899 tons, 11,2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 070 tons, 29,8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 787 tons, 10,5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 689 tons, 4,1 %
- Hull below water: 24 tons
- Hull above water: 175 tons
- On freeboard deck: 300 tons
- Above deck: 190 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
20 492 lbs / 9 295 Kg = 16,7 x 13,5 " / 343 mm shells or 3,5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,19
Metacentric height 4,9 ft / 1,5 m
Roll period: 15,1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 65 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,63
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,24
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,626 / 0,630
Length to Beam Ratio: 6,08 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21,91 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1,00 ft / 0,30 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 17,50 %, 18,72 ft / 5,71 m, 16,43 ft / 5,01 m
- Forward deck: 30,00 %, 16,43 ft / 5,01 m, 15,45 ft / 4,71 m
- Aft deck: 35,00 %, 15,45 ft / 4,71 m, 15,45 ft / 4,71 m
- Quarter deck: 17,50 %, 15,45 ft / 4,71 m, 15,45 ft / 4,71 m
- Average freeboard: 15,93 ft / 4,85 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85,6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 114,2 %
Waterplane Area: 28 413 Square feet or 2 640 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 159 lbs/sq ft or 775 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,94
- Longitudinal: 1,76
- Overall: 1,00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
24t for 4TT x18'' + 4 reloads
100t for additionnal air ventillation
100t for additionnal pumps installation
165t for fire control
100t for Admiral staff
50t for 2x Marconi
150t reserved
cost:
| | $ | BP | |
| 15,650 x 0,25 $ | | 3,912 | | |
| new guns | 233t | 0,233 | 0,233 | |
| new mounts | 487t | 0,487 | 0,487 | |
| new TDS | 398t | 0,398 | 0,398 | |
| 15,650 x 0,1 BP | | | 1,565 | |
| new engines | 1899t / 2 | 0,95 | 0,95 | Scrap $ |
| old guns | 199t | | | 0,0298 |
| old mounts | 417t | | | 0,0625 |
| old engines | 1886t / 2 | | | 0,14 |
| | - 5,98$ | - 3,63BP | + 0,23$ |
Testing a reconstruction with HMS Swiftsure guns 10"/45 Mark VI
Barbarossa, Byzantine Empire BB2 laid down 1896 (Engine 1910)
Displacement:
14 630 t light; 15 539 t standard; 16 577 t normal; 17 407 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(491,00 ft / 480,00 ft) x 79,00 ft x (24,44 / 25,46 ft)
(149,66 m / 146,30 m) x 24,08 m x (7,45 / 7,76 m)
Armament:
4 - 10,00" / 254 mm 45,0 cal guns - 504,26lbs / 228,73kg shells, 130 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1910 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 9,20" / 234 mm 45,0 cal guns - 392,67lbs / 178,11kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model
4 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
10 - 6,00" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,93lbs / 49,41kg shells, 220 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1896 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,62lbs / 6,18kg shells, 300 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model
16 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
16 raised mounts
4 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 2 000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6 466 lbs / 2 933 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11,8" / 300 mm 312,00 ft / 95,10 m 12,00 ft / 3,66 m
Ends: 4,72" / 120 mm 168,00 ft / 51,21 m 7,00 ft / 2,13 m
Upper: 5,92" / 150 mm 312,00 ft / 95,10 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
1,50" / 38 mm 312,00 ft / 95,10 m 23,44 ft / 7,14 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 73,00 ft / 22,25 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13,4" / 340 mm 5,92" / 150 mm 12,6" / 320 mm
2nd: 5,92" / 150 mm 2,55" / 65 mm 4,72" / 120 mm
3rd: 4,72" / 120 mm 1,97" / 50 mm -
4th: 0,50" / 13 mm - -
5th: 0,50" / 13 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2,95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 1,37" / 35 mm Quarter deck: 1,37" / 35 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 11,80" / 300 mm, Aft 5,92" / 150 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 32 000 ihp / 23 872 Kw = 22,09 kts
Range 6 500nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 868 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
729 - 949
Cost:
£1,372 million / $5,489 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1 375 tons, 8,3 %
- Guns: 1 375 tons, 8,3 %
Armour: 6 009 tons, 36,2 %
- Belts: 2 811 tons, 17,0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 406 tons, 2,4 %
- Armament: 1 141 tons, 6,9 %
- Armour Deck: 1 402 tons, 8,5 %
- Conning Towers: 248 tons, 1,5 %
Machinery: 2 251 tons, 13,6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 367 tons, 26,3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 946 tons, 11,7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 629 tons, 3,8 %
- Hull below water: 24 tons
- Hull above water: 175 tons
- On freeboard deck: 240 tons
- Above deck: 190 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
21 468 lbs / 9 738 Kg = 42,9 x 10,0 " / 254 mm shells or 3,6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,25
Metacentric height 5,3 ft / 1,6 m
Roll period: 14,4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,20
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,626 / 0,631
Length to Beam Ratio: 6,08 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21,91 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1,00 ft / 0,30 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 17,50 %, 19,12 ft / 5,83 m, 16,03 ft / 4,88 m
- Forward deck: 30,00 %, 16,63 ft / 5,07 m, 16,05 ft / 4,89 m
- Aft deck: 35,00 %, 16,05 ft / 4,89 m, 16,05 ft / 4,89 m
- Quarter deck: 17,50 %, 16,05 ft / 4,89 m, 16,05 ft / 4,89 m
- Average freeboard: 16,35 ft / 4,98 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83,4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120,1 %
Waterplane Area: 28 413 Square feet or 2 640 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs/sq ft or 685 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,94
- Longitudinal: 1,64
- Overall: 1,00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
24t for 4TT x18'' + 4 reloads
100t for additionnal air ventillation
100t for additionnal pumps installation
165t for fire control
100t for Admiral staff
50t for 2x Marconi
90t reserved
Quote from: Jefgte on October 15, 2018, 04:57:23 PM
Testing a reconstruction with HMS Swiftsure guns 10"/45 Mark VI
Barbarossa, Byzantine Empire BB2 laid down 1896 (Engine 1910)
It is rather interesting.
The hull should be fairly good. Granted, some vessels corroded quickly, but the expected life was 20+ years.
There were advances in ammunition handling, firing rates, and gearing around the turn of the century, so the old 13.5/35 would be like the slow firing guns of the Royal Sovereign class, while a 10" weapon would have a very nice rate of fire and can be kept "on target" much easier - indeed they were considered for Dreadnaught.
A couple cautions come to mind -
A) by this time the problems of mixed heavy calibers in regards to shell spotting is known. So the 10" and the 9.2" are very close, your designers would expect some Fire control issues. One thing I've toyed with on a similar ship is converting my entire battery to 1 size. Your 4 twin 9.2" mounts could be 4 single 10" if that interested you.
B) at this point, improved fire control is pushing the expected combat ranges further away. I would guess 6-9,000m would be the expected fighting range. At those ranges 10" guns will not penetrate battleship armor, though they could close in and kill crippled ships at <3000m - which is viable.
C) By 1910, there's some scout aircraft and dirigibles. The Romans just bought a bunch of aircraft. A couple token AA guns (if you have any) would make sense. In period you generally found 1-4.
D) While you are converting only part of the power plant to turbines, the "Ship design guidelines" would apply to that portion of the engine (at least).
Springsharp, for a 32,000shp engine in one of my ships *different hull than yours* with 90/10 fuel, puts a 1911 turbine weight at 1440, 1911 CR at 2112, and a combined plant at 1713.
Meanwhile 16,000shp for a compound is 1,056 and for turbine is 720, for a combined 1,776.
That means SS is not dividing tonnage 50/50 between the turbines and Compound, it's putting a little more under turbines.
However, the result is still close enough we can use it.
So the Turbines are about half the engine weight and around ~888tons, which means 25% of that tonnage of electric turbogenerators are needed in misc weight.
So I view this as making a hybrid battleship-armored cruiser, very interesting. Your thread has led to my exploring reconstruction alternatives in detail. While I had definitely thought of the possibility of rebuilding my prebuild ships, now I'm looking at the details and cost and what the designs would be. For roughly 1/2 the cost of a new ship, you get a very decent hybrid.
QuoteThere were advances in ammunition handling, firing rates, and gearing around the turn of the century, so the old 13.5/35 would be like the slow firing guns of the Royal Sovereign class, while a 10" weapon would have a very nice rate of fire and can be kept "on target" much easier - indeed they were considered for Dreadnaught.
13"5/35 mlle 1890 -
ROF 0.5 - 523kg/shell=> for 2T2 -
1046kg/mn10"/45 mlle 1904 -
ROF 2 => - 227kg/shell=> for 2T2 -
3632kg/mnI have calculated the difference before SS :)
--------
I have calculated also the fire of the "4th division of light Battleships" (Barbarossa class)
With salvoes organised every 8/10sec from the first BB to the fourth BB.
An enemy battleship could be on fire in about 12 to 15 mn by about 1500 10" & 9"2
Very nice upgrade in overall firepower. The nice thing is that 9/10" can at <3000m still get critical hits as well. The "saturate with HE" is why some of the Italian (oops that was N6) I mean Parthian battleships have the large 180mm batteries, but those will never get those critical hits the 10" can.
Overall, I think that's a perfectly reasonable update using the changing technology.
Quote...A) by this time the problems of mixed heavy calibers in regards to shell spotting is known. So the 10" and the 9.2" are very close, your designers would expect some Fire control issues. One thing I've toyed with on a similar ship is converting my entire battery to 1 size. Your 4 twin 9.2" mounts could be 4 single 10" if that interested you...
Testing with:
2T2 & 4T1 10"/45 Mark IV HMS Swiftsure guns
Barbarossa, Byzantine Empire BB2 laid down 1896 (Engine 1910)
Displacement:
14 750 t light; 15 542 t standard; 16 580 t normal; 17 410 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(491,00 ft / 480,00 ft) x 79,00 ft x (24,45 / 25,47 ft)
(149,66 m / 146,30 m) x 24,08 m x (7,44 / 7,76 m)
Armament:
4 - 10,00" / 254 mm 45,0 cal guns - 501,00lbs / 227,25kg shells, 130 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1910 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 10,00" / 254 mm 45,0 cal guns - 501,00lbs / 227,25kg shells, 130 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
10 - 6,00" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,93lbs / 49,41kg shells, 220 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1896 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,62lbs / 6,18kg shells, 300 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model
16 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
16 raised mounts
4 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 2 000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5 315 lbs / 2 411 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11,8" / 300 mm 312,00 ft / 95,10 m 12,00 ft / 3,66 m
Ends: 4,72" / 120 mm 168,00 ft / 51,21 m 7,00 ft / 2,13 m
Upper: 5,92" / 150 mm 312,00 ft / 95,10 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
1,50" / 38 mm 312,00 ft / 95,10 m 23,44 ft / 7,14 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 69,00 ft / 21,03 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13,4" / 340 mm 5,92" / 150 mm 12,6" / 320 mm
2nd: 12,6" / 320 mm 5,92" / 150 mm 11,8" / 300 mm
3rd: 4,72" / 120 mm 1,97" / 50 mm -
4th: 0,50" / 13 mm - -
5th: 0,50" / 13 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2,95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 1,37" / 35 mm Quarter deck: 1,37" / 35 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 11,80" / 300 mm, Aft 5,92" / 150 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 32 000 ihp / 23 872 Kw = 22,09 kts
Range 6 500nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 868 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
729 - 949
Cost:
£1,271 million / $5,084 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1 235 tons, 7,4 %
- Guns: 1 235 tons, 7,4 %
Armour: 6 365 tons, 38,4 %
- Belts: 2 811 tons, 17,0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 406 tons, 2,4 %
- Armament: 1 498 tons, 9,0 %
- Armour Deck: 1 402 tons, 8,5 %
- Conning Towers: 248 tons, 1,5 %
Machinery: 2 251 tons, 13,6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 272 tons, 25,8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 828 tons, 11,0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 629 tons, 3,8 %
- Hull below water: 24 tons
- Hull above water: 175 tons
- On freeboard deck: 240 tons
- Above deck: 190 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
23 208 lbs / 10 527 Kg = 46,4 x 10,0 " / 254 mm shells or 4,1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23
Metacentric height 5,1 ft / 1,6 m
Roll period: 14,7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,36
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,20
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,626 / 0,631
Length to Beam Ratio: 6,08 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21,91 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1,00 ft / 0,30 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 17,50 %, 19,22 ft / 5,86 m, 16,13 ft / 4,91 m
- Forward deck: 30,00 %, 16,73 ft / 5,10 m, 16,15 ft / 4,92 m
- Aft deck: 35,00 %, 16,15 ft / 4,92 m, 16,15 ft / 4,92 m
- Quarter deck: 17,50 %, 16,15 ft / 4,92 m, 16,15 ft / 4,92 m
- Average freeboard: 16,45 ft / 5,01 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81,5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120,9 %
Waterplane Area: 28 413 Square feet or 2 640 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 137 lbs/sq ft or 671 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,95
- Longitudinal: 1,59
- Overall: 1,00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
24t for 4TT x18'' + 4 reloads
100t for additionnal air ventillation
100t for additionnal pumps installation
165t for fire control
100t for Admiral staff
50t for 2x Marconi
90t reserved
Quote2T2 & 4T1 10"/45
This config is interresting because, with this rebuilt, the 4 Barbarossa class deliver 16T2x234 (4 turrets by ships)
These turrets could be installed on new hulls for gunboats or cruisers.
SS give for 4T2 per BB
Guns: 175t
Mounts: 525t
Armour: 388t - (150-65-120)
Magasine: 262t - (600 shells)
=> for 1T2 => 272t
Testing light AC with 2T2x234 free from Barbarossa class
Cost 5,45BP & 5,45$
AC6, Byzantine Empire Light Armored Cruiser laid down 1911
Displacement:
6 000 t light; 6 300 t standard; 7 395 t normal; 8 271 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(491,00 ft / 491,00 ft) x 60,00 ft x (17,06 / 18,60 ft)
(149,66 m / 149,66 m) x 18,29 m x (5,20 / 5,67 m)
Armament:
4 - 9,20" / 234 mm 45,0 cal guns - 392,66lbs / 178,11kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 4,00" / 102 mm 45,0 cal guns - 32,28lbs / 14,64kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 2 000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1 764 lbs / 800 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3,95" / 100 mm 314,00 ft / 95,71 m 9,00 ft / 2,74 m
Ends: 1,17" / 30 mm 177,00 ft / 53,95 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5,92" / 150 mm 2,55" / 65 mm 4,72" / 120 mm
3rd: 0,39" / 10 mm - -
4th: 0,39" / 10 mm - -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1,17" / 30 mm
Forecastle: 0,79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 0,79" / 20 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3,95" / 100 mm, Aft 1,17" / 30 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 40 000 shp / 29 840 Kw = 27,07 kts
Range 8 000nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 971 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
398 - 518
Cost:
£0,614 million / $2,456 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 385 tons, 5,2 %
- Guns: 385 tons, 5,2 %
Armour: 1 185 tons, 16,0 %
- Belts: 531 tons, 7,2 %
- Armament: 211 tons, 2,9 %
- Armour Deck: 401 tons, 5,4 %
- Conning Towers: 42 tons, 0,6 %
Machinery: 1 768 tons, 23,9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 358 tons, 31,9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 395 tons, 18,9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 304 tons, 4,1 %
- Hull above water: 30 tons
- On freeboard deck: 210 tons
- Above deck: 64 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8 063 lbs / 3 657 Kg = 20,7 x 9,2 " / 234 mm shells or 1,4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,21
Metacentric height 3,3 ft / 1,0 m
Roll period: 13,9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,37
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,08
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,515 / 0,528
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,18 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22,16 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20,00 %, 18,75 ft / 5,72 m, 16,75 ft / 5,11 m
- Forward deck: 30,00 %, 16,75 ft / 5,11 m, 14,75 ft / 4,50 m
- Aft deck: 30,00 %, 14,75 ft / 4,50 m, 14,75 ft / 4,50 m
- Quarter deck: 20,00 %, 14,75 ft / 4,50 m, 14,75 ft / 4,50 m
- Average freeboard: 15,61 ft / 4,76 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98,2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145,2 %
Waterplane Area: 19 900 Square feet or 1 849 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 89 lbs/sq ft or 432 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,87
- Longitudinal: 1,16
- Overall: 0,90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
36t for 4 TT x 18'' + 4 reloads
39t for top fire control
25t for Marconi
30t for additionnal pumps
30t for additionnal ventilation
144t reserved for troops, materials, mines...
Reconstruction of Barbarossa class with 2T2x254 + 4T1x254
| 14750t- 2T2x254+4T1x254 | | | |
| | $ | BP | |
| 15,650 x 0,1 BP | | | 1,565 | |
| 15,650 x 0,25 $ | | 3,912 | | |
| new guns | 224t | 0,224 | 0,224 | |
| new mounts | 783t | 0,783 | 0,783 | |
| new armour | 1347t | 1,347 | 1,347 | |
| new engines | 956t | 0,96 | 0,96 | |
| | | | Scrap $ |
| old guns | 199t | | | 0,0298 |
| old mounts | 417t | | | 0,0625 |
| old armour | 1166t | | | 0,2 |
| old engines | 1394t | | | 0,2 |
| | 7,226 | 4,879 | 0,4625 |
| | | | |
| - scrap cost | 6,76 | | |
| | | | |
6,76$ - 4,88BP
An other AC6 with Barbarossa 9"2 turrets & 8x4"72
Light Armored Cruiser, Byzantine Empire Light Armored Cruiser laid down 1911
Displacement:
6 000 t light; 6 322 t standard; 7 419 t normal; 8 296 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(491,00 ft / 491,00 ft) x 60,00 ft x (17,11 / 18,66 ft)
(149,66 m / 149,66 m) x 18,29 m x (5,22 / 5,69 m)
Armament:
4 - 9,20" / 234 mm 45,0 cal guns - 392,67lbs / 178,11kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,02lbs / 24,05kg shells, 180 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 2 000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1 995 lbs / 905 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3,95" / 100 mm 318,00 ft / 96,93 m 9,00 ft / 2,74 m
Ends: 1,17" / 30 mm 173,00 ft / 52,73 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5,92" / 150 mm 2,55" / 65 mm 4,72" / 120 mm
3rd: 0,39" / 10 mm - -
4th: 0,39" / 10 mm - -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1,17" / 30 mm
Forecastle: 0,79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 0,79" / 20 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3,95" / 100 mm, Aft 1,17" / 30 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 40 000 shp / 29 840 Kw = 27,06 kts
Range 8 000nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 974 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
399 - 519
Cost:
£0,625 million / $2,500 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 424 tons, 5,7 %
- Guns: 424 tons, 5,7 %
Armour: 1 189 tons, 16,0 %
- Belts: 533 tons, 7,2 %
- Armament: 213 tons, 2,9 %
- Armour Deck: 401 tons, 5,4 %
- Conning Towers: 42 tons, 0,6 %
Machinery: 1 768 tons, 23,8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 355 tons, 31,7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 419 tons, 19,1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 263 tons, 3,5 %
- Hull above water: 30 tons
- On freeboard deck: 166 tons
- Above deck: 67 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
7 996 lbs / 3 627 Kg = 20,5 x 9,2 " / 234 mm shells or 1,4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22
Metacentric height 3,3 ft / 1,0 m
Roll period: 13,8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,08
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise aft of midbreak,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,515 / 0,528
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,18 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22,16 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20,00 %, 18,70 ft / 5,70 m, 16,70 ft / 5,09 m
- Forward deck: 30,00 %, 16,70 ft / 5,09 m, 14,70 ft / 4,48 m
- Aft deck: 30,00 %, 14,75 ft / 4,50 m, 14,70 ft / 4,48 m
- Quarter deck: 20,00 %, 14,70 ft / 4,48 m, 14,70 ft / 4,48 m
- Average freeboard: 15,57 ft / 4,74 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99,4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144,5 %
Waterplane Area: 19 900 Square feet or 1 849 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 89 lbs/sq ft or 437 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,87
- Longitudinal: 1,17
- Overall: 0,90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
36t for 4 TT x 18'' + 4 reloads
42t for top fire control
25t for Marconi
30t for additionnal pumps
30t for additionnal ventilation
100t reserved for troops, materials, mines...
Interesting,
Innovative,
but I don't think it's terribly practical.
In 1911, the current fire control allows reasonable accuracy out to 10,000m. I'm guessing that means about 10% hits, rapidly falling off after that. Promises of longer ranges soon.
Meanwhile AP shells are being researched.
You have mighty 9.2" guns ! You can sink the Parthian/Roman ships at all combat ranges !
Except the further out, the more dependent on rate of fire to generate the shell splashes needed to range on - hence why I suggested unifying Barbarossa's armament. Makes it much more effective.
Plus, if the goal is to save by reusing the 9.2" turrets, you have to factor in why they are obsolete.
The 1904-ish "continuous aim" system, and following systems, made keeping your barrels on target as the ship rolled important.
Prior to that, i.e. 1896, you waited for the roll to hit the right point. That doesn't work for higher ROF and good fire control.
The gearing for this , and the power to do it, really only worked on smaller guns - I read 9.4" and less, but from the navies adopting 10", and the concept of arming Dreadnaught with 10", I'm guessing 10" was the practical upper limit. The 1896 turrets you have won't have that gearing or rate of fire.
So you'd have guns which fire slower than modern ones, that can't maintain target lock, and so can't take advantage of their longer range penetration. IMHO
Based on the Falklands fight, "choosing your range" is hard to do, even when you have a Invincible vs. [/i]Scharnhorst[/i] level advantage, that 100mm belt is questionable at the shorter ranges, especially after the new AP shells.
Quote...Plus, if the goal is to save by reusing the 9.2" turrets, you have to factor in why they are obsolete...
9.2 turrets are not obsolete but, available with the Barbarossa rebuilt with 10" turrets.
-------------
Reuse 9"2 mlle 1896 turrets is an economical choice to have more cruisers.
9"2 Mark X
Range 14170m @ 15° with 172kg HE or AP
Battle ROF: 2 (max 3 during short time)
Muzzle Velocity 806m/s
Vertical Armor Penetration: 135mm @ 8230m
80 shells fire in 10 mn =>13792kg
I think correct for a 1911-27kts-6000t cruiser
Enemy cruiser didn't like to receive 172kg shells !!!
I agree the actual weapon performance isn't horrid. The ROF is low. Yes, 172kg shells will hurt, but only if they can hit.
In my opinion, the problem I'm pointing out is that using the old guns with the old turrets, you may have trouble using fire control.
Those 1896 turrets don't track or elevate quickly, and your overall rate of fire (4rpm) is too low to maintain a good splash ladder to make fire control corrections.
I'm trying to be helpful by letting you know of what I think a significant deficiency is. That's part of our peer-review job for each other.
Part of this SIM is that you get to decide you like the idea and think the resource savings is worth the investment.
:)
Better cruiser
Heavy Scout Cruiser laid down 1911
Displacement:
6 000 t light; 6 410 t standard; 7 521 t normal; 8 409 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(491,00 ft / 491,00 ft) x 64,00 ft x (16,43 / 17,90 ft)
(149,66 m / 149,66 m) x 19,51 m x (5,01 / 5,45 m)
Armament:
6 - 9,20" / 234 mm 45,0 cal guns - 392,66lbs / 178,11kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
12 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,03lbs / 24,05kg shells, 180 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
12 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 2 000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2 992 lbs / 1 357 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3,15" / 80 mm 310,00 ft / 94,49 m 9,00 ft / 2,74 m
Ends: 1,17" / 30 mm 181,00 ft / 55,17 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5,92" / 150 mm 2,55" / 65 mm 4,72" / 120 mm
3rd: 0,77" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0,39" / 10 mm - -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1,17" / 30 mm
Forecastle: 0,79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 0,79" / 20 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3,95" / 100 mm, Aft 1,17" / 30 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 30 000 shp / 22 380 Kw = 25,06 kts
Range 8 000nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 999 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
403 - 524
Cost:
£0,647 million / $2,587 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 636 tons, 8,5 %
- Guns: 636 tons, 8,5 %
Armour: 1 227 tons, 16,3 %
- Belts: 436 tons, 5,8 %
- Armament: 322 tons, 4,3 %
- Armour Deck: 426 tons, 5,7 %
- Conning Towers: 42 tons, 0,6 %
Machinery: 1 326 tons, 17,6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 542 tons, 33,8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 521 tons, 20,2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 269 tons, 3,6 %
- Hull below water: 30 tons
- Hull above water: 30 tons
- On freeboard deck: 124 tons
- Above deck: 85 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9 114 lbs / 4 134 Kg = 23,4 x 9,2 " / 234 mm shells or 1,7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,24
Metacentric height 3,8 ft / 1,2 m
Roll period: 13,8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,47
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,14
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,510 / 0,523
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22,16 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20,00 %, 19,00 ft / 5,79 m, 16,00 ft / 4,88 m
- Forward deck: 30,00 %, 16,00 ft / 4,88 m, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m
- Aft deck: 30,00 %, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m
- Quarter deck: 20,00 %, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m
- Average freeboard: 14,94 ft / 4,55 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90,0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144,8 %
Waterplane Area: 21 129 Square feet or 1 963 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 481 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,88
- Longitudinal: 1,15
- Overall: 0,90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
24t for 8 TT x 18''
60t for top fire control
25t for Marconi
30t for additionnal pumps
30t for additionnal ventilation
100t reserved for troops, materials, mines...
Cost, 5,184 $ & BP
El Mynia - El Badari, Byzantine Empire SC5 - Heavy Scout Cruiser laid down 1911
Displacement:
6 000 t light; 6 411 t standard; 7 524 t normal; 8 415 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(504,00 ft / 504,00 ft) x 62,10 ft x (16,50 / 17,98 ft)
(153,62 m / 153,62 m) x 18,93 m x (5,03 / 5,48 m)
Armament:
6 - 9,20" / 234 mm 45,0 cal guns - 392,67lbs / 178,11kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
12 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,02lbs / 24,05kg shells, 180 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
12 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 2 000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2 992 lbs / 1 357 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3,15" / 80 mm 317,00 ft / 96,62 m 9,00 ft / 2,74 m
Ends: 1,17" / 30 mm 183,00 ft / 55,78 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
4,00 ft / 1,22 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5,92" / 150 mm 2,55" / 65 mm 4,72" / 120 mm
3rd: 0,77" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0,39" / 10 mm - -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1,17" / 30 mm
Forecastle: 0,79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 0,79" / 20 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3,95" / 100 mm, Aft 1,17" / 30 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 29 244 shp / 21 816 Kw = 25,00 kts
Range 8 000nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2 004 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
403 - 525
Cost:
£0,642 million / $2,568 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 636 tons, 8,5 %
- Guns: 636 tons, 8,5 %
Armour: 1 239 tons, 16,5 %
- Belts: 442 tons, 5,9 %
- Armament: 330 tons, 4,4 %
- Armour Deck: 424 tons, 5,6 %
- Conning Towers: 42 tons, 0,6 %
Machinery: 1 293 tons, 17,2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 561 tons, 34,0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 524 tons, 20,3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 272 tons, 3,6 %
- Hull below water: 30 tons
- Hull above water: 30 tons
- On freeboard deck: 124 tons
- Above deck: 88 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9 190 lbs / 4 169 Kg = 23,6 x 9,2 " / 234 mm shells or 1,7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,19
Metacentric height 3,4 ft / 1,0 m
Roll period: 14,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 79 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,60
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,24
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,510 / 0,523
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,12 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22,45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20,00 %, 20,00 ft / 6,10 m, 17,00 ft / 5,18 m
- Forward deck: 30,00 %, 17,00 ft / 5,18 m, 15,00 ft / 4,57 m
- Aft deck: 30,00 %, 15,00 ft / 4,57 m, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m
- Quarter deck: 20,00 %, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m
- Average freeboard: 15,59 ft / 4,75 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88,5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151,7 %
Waterplane Area: 21 045 Square feet or 1 955 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 97 lbs/sq ft or 474 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,87
- Longitudinal: 1,15
- Overall: 0,90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
24t for 8 TT x 18''
63t for top fire control
25t for Marconi
30t for additionnal pumps
30t for additionnal ventilation
100t reserved for troops, materials, mines...
Cost, 5,184 $ & 5,184BP
Testing SC5 to AGB ;
Speed decrease from 25kts to 22kts & armor increase from 16% to 23%
El Mynia - El Badari, Byzantine Empire Colonial Armored Gun Boat laid down 1911
Displacement:
6 000 t light; 6 411 t standard; 7 524 t normal; 8 415 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(504,00 ft / 504,00 ft) x 62,10 ft x (16,50 / 17,98 ft)
(153,62 m / 153,62 m) x 18,93 m x (5,03 / 5,48 m)
Armament:
6 - 9,20" / 234 mm 45,0 cal guns - 392,67lbs / 178,11kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
12 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,02lbs / 24,05kg shells, 180 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
12 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 2 000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2 992 lbs / 1 357 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5,92" / 150 mm 320,00 ft / 97,54 m 9,00 ft / 2,74 m
Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 180,00 ft / 54,86 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
4,00 ft / 1,22 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5,92" / 150 mm 2,55" / 65 mm 4,72" / 120 mm
3rd: 0,77" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0,39" / 10 mm - -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1,57" / 40 mm
Forecastle: 0,98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0,98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3,95" / 100 mm, Aft 1,17" / 30 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 18 000 shp / 13 428 Kw = 22,02 kts
Range 8 000nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2 004 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
403 - 525
Cost:
£0,572 million / $2,290 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 636 tons, 8,5 %
- Guns: 636 tons, 8,5 %
Armour: 1 737 tons, 23,1 %
- Belts: 802 tons, 10,7 %
- Armament: 330 tons, 4,4 %
- Armour Deck: 562 tons, 7,5 %
- Conning Towers: 42 tons, 0,6 %
Machinery: 796 tons, 10,6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 559 tons, 34,0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 524 tons, 20,3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 272 tons, 3,6 %
- Hull below water: 30 tons
- Hull above water: 30 tons
- On freeboard deck: 124 tons
- Above deck: 88 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12 020 lbs / 5 452 Kg = 30,9 x 9,2 " / 234 mm shells or 2,3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
Metacentric height 3,2 ft / 1,0 m
Roll period: 14,6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 94 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,70
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,47
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,510 / 0,523
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,12 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22,45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20,00 %, 20,00 ft / 6,10 m, 17,00 ft / 5,18 m
- Forward deck: 30,00 %, 17,00 ft / 5,18 m, 15,00 ft / 4,57 m
- Aft deck: 30,00 %, 15,00 ft / 4,57 m, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m
- Quarter deck: 20,00 %, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m
- Average freeboard: 15,59 ft / 4,75 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 67,4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151,7 %
Waterplane Area: 21 045 Square feet or 1 955 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 126 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 97 lbs/sq ft or 474 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,88
- Longitudinal: 1,17
- Overall: 0,90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
24t for 8 TT x 18''
63t for top fire control
25t for Marconi
30t for additionnal pumps
30t for additionnal ventilation
100t reserved for troops, materials, mines...
Another 6000t with the same artillery & speed of AC2 Bourgas class to work together
Edime - Elena, Byzantine Empire 6000t AC2 - Bourgas class laid down 1911
Displacement:
6 000 t light; 6 404 t standard; 7 231 t normal; 7 893 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(504,00 ft / 504,00 ft) x 62,10 ft x (15,86 / 16,96 ft)
(153,62 m / 153,62 m) x 18,93 m x (4,83 / 5,17 m)
Armament:
6 - 9,20" / 234 mm 45,0 cal guns - 392,67lbs / 178,11kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
12 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,02lbs / 24,05kg shells, 180 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
12 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 2 000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2 992 lbs / 1 357 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4,71" / 120 mm 320,00 ft / 97,54 m 9,00 ft / 2,74 m
Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 180,00 ft / 54,86 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
4,00 ft / 1,22 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5,92" / 150 mm 2,55" / 65 mm 4,72" / 120 mm
3rd: 0,77" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0,39" / 10 mm - -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1,27" / 32 mm
Forecastle: 0,98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0,98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3,95" / 100 mm, Aft 1,17" / 30 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 24 412 shp / 18 211 Kw = 24,00 kts
Range 6 000nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 489 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
391 - 509
Cost:
£0,612 million / $2,448 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 636 tons, 8,8 %
- Guns: 636 tons, 8,8 %
Armour: 1 497 tons, 20,7 %
- Belts: 654 tons, 9,0 %
- Armament: 330 tons, 4,6 %
- Armour Deck: 471 tons, 6,5 %
- Conning Towers: 41 tons, 0,6 %
Machinery: 1 079 tons, 14,9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 565 tons, 35,5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 232 tons, 17,0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 222 tons, 3,1 %
- Hull below water: 30 tons
- Hull above water: 30 tons
- On freeboard deck: 74 tons
- Above deck: 88 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9 686 lbs / 4 393 Kg = 24,9 x 9,2 " / 234 mm shells or 1,8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17
Metacentric height 3,3 ft / 1,0 m
Roll period: 14,4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 85 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,64
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,32
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,510 / 0,521
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,12 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22,45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20,00 %, 20,00 ft / 6,10 m, 17,00 ft / 5,18 m
- Forward deck: 30,00 %, 17,00 ft / 5,18 m, 15,00 ft / 4,57 m
- Aft deck: 30,00 %, 15,00 ft / 4,57 m, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m
- Quarter deck: 20,00 %, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m
- Average freeboard: 15,59 ft / 4,75 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82,6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 156,3 %
Waterplane Area: 21 045 Square feet or 1 955 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 479 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,88
- Longitudinal: 1,15
- Overall: 0,90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
24t for 8 TT x 18''
63t for top fire control
25t for Marconi
30t for additionnal pumps
30t for additionnal ventilation
50t reserved for troops, materials, mines...
With Edime class, Byzantine Empire could have 2 other battle squadrons each one could engage a battleship.
1st BS
Barbarossa & Mehmed II (16x254 - 22kts)
Bourgas & Edime (12x234 - 24kts)
2nd BS
Suleiman I & Abdulhamid Kahn (16x254 - 22kts)
Bapha & Elena (12x234 - 24kts)
With salvoes organised every 8/10sec from the first BB to the fourth cruiser.
An enemy battleship could be on fire in about 12 to 15 mn by about 1500 10" & 9"2
A good training of the Admirals is necessary to obtain rhythmic salvoes.
The work of each battle squadron is to burn down and exhaust a battleship.
Then, damaged battleships are easy prey for Torpedo boats...
I don't know. They've got the guns and the speed (for now) to cause problems for a battleship, but their protection isn't going to keep them in the battleline for very long.
It'd be interesting to see it gamed out.
IMO, a PD will be reamed in 15 minutes.
A dreadnought (21000t) will oppose greater resistance and will likely engage the Barbarossa and Mehmed II battleships (14750t), each with half of its 12 "as they pose the greatest threat. (OTL, Exeter vs. Graf Spee)
The secondary artillery would shoot the 2 cruisers Bourgas & Edime.
A super Dreadnought (27000t) would be more dangerous for the two 14750t battleships -B300-120 - T340-150 - Bbte320 - D75-35 ...
For Dreadnought & super Dreadnought, perhaps the best tactic would be to quickly blew up the 6000t Edime cruiser and then shoot the cruiser Bourgas 13740t and finally the two 14750t battleships.
To not be burned and exhausted, the Super Dreadnought must blow up his opponents in 20 to 30mn, have lucky hits. 1, it's possible, 2, it's remarkable, 3 and 4, do not dream ...
Your line will be longer than the enemy's line, and these cruisers would be at the rear of it. Any notable flooding or engine damage will quickly see them left behind as the lines continue onward.
QuoteYour line will be longer than the enemy's line, and these cruisers would be at the rear of it.
These light battle squadrons will operate at the end of the line, they will be able to maneuver freely.
Admiral Guruf is responsible for training and maneuvering these 2 BS together and separately.
QuoteAny notable flooding or engine damage will quickly see them left behind as the lines continue onward.
In an action, 1 or 2 ships per BS can be lost ...
It'd be interesting to see it gamed out. ;)
It's interesting indeed.
My reading of Tshushima(sp) is that the penetrating 12" hits were not the killers, but flooding and fires were.
Back when I ran N3's bavaria, I compared the effects of lots of mid-sized shell bursts to a fewer large shell bursts and concluded that - at that point in time- more midsized was better.
That ship lives on in N7, in my 20 x 180mm double casement battleship :)
Speed : Up to you on how you wish to employ them.
If they are wedded to the battleline, then a lower speed make sense, but does deny you flexibility in independent deployment
At 23 knots, they would be as fast as most of my old cruisers, but slower than all the new.
At 25 knots, they could catch my old cruisers and have a chance to avoid the more recent one. The Byzantines would know the Parthians have launched a series of armored cruisers with the same rough size and armament as the Byzantines, so they can extrapolate the rest.
Armor :
First a note : You are currently researching the 1910 Capital Ship Architecture, but will not have it available until 1912. Since the guns are over 210mm, you must use Capital Ship Arch for these ships. Which means you need either an upper belt - if laying down in 1911, or to wait until 1912.
I see a range of armors up there.
The USN's 10"40 could penetrate 172mm at roughly 11,000m. It is reasonable to assume both Byzantine's and Parthia's armored cruisers can manage the same.
In the Original time line "now" the US considered battle ranges to be 8,000m. The British 9.2"MkX can pen 135mm at 9,000m.
So, if you lack speed, or are tied to a battle line, armor in the 150mm or less range is questionable against any Parthian Armored Cruiser.
Further, if you look at battle tracks at Falklands, Jutland, or others, you find a tremendous range of ranges, simply "staying at range" is hard. The Invincible tried that at Falklands, and it worked sometimes, but she still took a 8" hit into a coal bunker adjacent to a magazine- if not a dud it may have sunk her.
Very interesting range of vessels. I think the 25knot ones give you more flexibility in how you use them, and what they choose to engage. You want to engage my protected cruisers and Snips cruisers, not the armored cruisers. The Graf Spee model I guess :)
I feel obliged to bring this up again. I know We have discussed and disagreed strongly on the weaponry before. You disagree and choose to explore this. I want to be clear on my misgivings.
My belief continues to be that reusing guns and turrets has a downside. In this case there has been critical technological advances since their design.
These are 1896 guns. They could not be based on 1895 technology, so they must be the 1880 technology. That is a substantial difference.
The guns created were before QF technology and faster breeches, set in mountings made before gearing for continuous aim or later fire controls was introduced, fed by hoists from the same period, should not yield good results. This is especially true due to the small # of guns, combined with a low ROF for the older weapons, making ranging by shell splashes hard.
Quote...Armor :
First a note : You are currently researching the 1910 Capital Ship Architecture, but will not have it available until 1912. Since the guns are over 210mm, you must use Capital Ship Arch for these ships. Which means you need either an upper belt - if laying down in 1911, or to wait until 1912...
I can add a 50mm upper belt, splinters protection, I have BP reserve.
Quote...I feel obliged to bring this up again. I know We have discussed and disagreed strongly on the weaponry before. You disagree and choose to explore this. I want to be clear on my misgivings.
My belief continues to be that reusing guns and turrets has a downside. In this case there has been critical technological advances since their design.
These are 1896 guns. They could not be based on 1895 technology, so they must be the 1880 technology. That is a substantial difference.
The guns created were before QF technology and faster breeches, set in mountings made before gearing for continuous aim or later fire controls was introduced, fed by hoists from the same period, should not yield good results. This is especially true due to the small # of guns, combined with a low ROF for the older weapons, making ranging by shell splashes hard...
I chose the artillery of the United Kingdom since the beginning of the game (Naval Weapons).
For battleships, I use HMS Swiftsure turrets.
For the cruisers, the guns of HMS Warrior and Defense.
To be consistent, I try to respect the dates of commissioning for guns and ships.
6000t cruisers were designed as heavy scout cruisers. the different SS have made them evolve to integrate the BS, They are now pocket AC ;)
The interest of this game is to design original ships & innovative tactics. ;)
With 50mm upper belt:
Edime - Elena, Byzantine Empire 6600t AC2 - Bourgas class laid down 1911
Displacement:
6 675 t light; 7 093 t standard; 7 890 t normal; 8 527 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(504,00 ft / 504,00 ft) x 62,10 ft x (17,30 / 18,36 ft)
(153,62 m / 153,62 m) x 18,93 m x (5,27 / 5,60 m)
Armament:
6 - 9,20" / 234 mm 45,0 cal guns - 392,67lbs / 178,11kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
12 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,02lbs / 24,05kg shells, 180 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
12 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 4 000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2 992 lbs / 1 357 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4,71" / 120 mm 320,00 ft / 97,54 m 9,00 ft / 2,74 m
Ends: 1,95" / 50 mm 180,00 ft / 54,86 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
4,00 ft / 1,22 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 1,95" / 50 mm 320,00 ft / 97,54 m 10,00 ft / 3,05 m
Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5,92" / 150 mm 2,55" / 65 mm 4,72" / 120 mm
3rd: 0,77" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0,39" / 10 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1,27" / 32 mm
Forecastle: 0,98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0,98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3,95" / 100 mm, Aft 1,27" / 32 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 25 640 shp / 19 128 Kw = 24,00 kts
Range 5 500nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 434 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
418 - 544
Cost:
£0,643 million / $2,573 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 636 tons, 8,1 %
- Guns: 636 tons, 8,1 %
Armour: 1 787 tons, 22,7 %
- Belts: 937 tons, 11,9 %
- Armament: 330 tons, 4,2 %
- Armour Deck: 475 tons, 6,0 %
- Conning Towers: 45 tons, 0,6 %
Machinery: 1 133 tons, 14,4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 896 tons, 36,7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 215 tons, 15,4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 222 tons, 2,8 %
- Hull below water: 30 tons
- Hull above water: 30 tons
- On freeboard deck: 74 tons
- Above deck: 88 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11 557 lbs / 5 242 Kg = 29,7 x 9,2 " / 234 mm shells or 2,0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13
Metacentric height 3,1 ft / 0,9 m
Roll period: 14,9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 86 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,34
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,510 / 0,519
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,12 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22,45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 18,00 %, 20,00 ft / 6,10 m, 17,00 ft / 5,18 m
- Forward deck: 32,00 %, 17,00 ft / 5,18 m, 15,00 ft / 4,57 m
- Aft deck: 32,00 %, 15,00 ft / 4,57 m, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m
- Quarter deck: 18,00 %, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m
- Average freeboard: 15,56 ft / 4,74 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78,1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146,2 %
Waterplane Area: 21 045 Square feet or 1 955 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 107 lbs/sq ft or 524 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,97
- Longitudinal: 1,29
- Overall: 1,00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
24t for 8 TT x 18''
63t for top fire control
25t for Marconi
30t for additionnal pumps
30t for additionnal ventilation
50t reserved for troops, materials, mines...