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Cruiser1, Spain Cruiser laid down 1900

Displacement:
   6 362 t light; 6 763 t standard; 7 645 t normal; 8 349 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (420,93 ft / 416,67 ft) x 49,54 ft x (22,31 / 23,97 ft)
   (128,30 m / 127,00 m) x 15,10 m  x (6,80 / 7,31 m)

Armament:
      12 - 5,98" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,07lbs / 49,02kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 - 5,98" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,07lbs / 49,02kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 12,98lbs / 5,89kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      Weight of broadside 1 833 lbs / 831 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      2 - 18,1" / 460 mm, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m torpedoes - 0,604 t each, 1,207 t total
   submerged bow & stern tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2,48" / 63 mm   328,08 ft / 100,00 m   8,20 ft / 2,50 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 121% of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2,13" / 54 mm         -               -
   2nd:   2,48" / 63 mm         -               -
   3rd:   2,48" / 63 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 0,71" / 18 mm
   Forecastle: 0,71" / 18 mm  Quarter deck: 0,94" / 24 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 5,91" / 150 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 19 348 ihp / 14 434 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 5 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 586 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   408 - 531

Cost:
   £0,733 million / $2,931 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 278 tons, 3,6%
      - Guns: 275 tons, 3,6%
      - Weapons: 2 tons, 0,0%
   Armour: 648 tons, 8,5%
      - Belts: 271 tons, 3,5%
      - Armament: 119 tons, 1,6%
      - Armour Deck: 208 tons, 2,7%
      - Conning Tower: 49 tons, 0,6%
   Machinery: 3 023 tons, 39,5%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 411 tons, 31,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 283 tons, 16,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 2 tons, 0,0%
      - Hull above water: 2 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3 647 lbs / 1 654 Kg = 34,0 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 1,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,03
   Metacentric height 1,8 ft / 0,6 m
   Roll period: 15,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,48
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,63

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,581 / 0,591
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,41 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20,41 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 100
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -3,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  20,87 ft / 6,36 m,  18,27 ft / 5,57 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  18,27 ft / 5,57 m,  15,39 ft / 4,69 m
      - Aft deck:   25,00%,  15,39 ft / 4,69 m,  15,06 ft / 4,59 m
      - Quarter deck:   25,00%,  15,06 ft / 4,59 m,  15,06 ft / 4,59 m
      - Average freeboard:      16,48 ft / 5,02 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 141,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111,5%
   Waterplane Area: 14 831 Square feet or 1 378 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 501 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,25
      - Longitudinal: 2,52
      - Overall: 1,34
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Spain Battleship 1900, Spain Battleship laid down 1900

Displacement:
   12 282 t light; 13 028 t standard; 15 035 t normal; 16 640 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (398,95 ft / 392,39 ft) x 78,38 ft (Bulges 79,36 ft) x (24,28 / 26,57 ft)
   (121,60 m / 119,60 m) x 23,89 m (Bulges 24,19 m)  x (7,40 / 8,10 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12,20" / 310 mm 40,0 cal guns - 871,18lbs / 395,16kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck centre
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck centre
      12 - 5,98" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,07lbs / 49,02kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      6 - 2,99" / 76,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,51lbs / 6,13kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     6 x Single mounts on side ends, majority aft
      6 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 4 863 lbs / 2 206 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11,4" / 290 mm   229,66 ft / 70,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Ends:   4,33" / 110 mm     32,81 ft / 10,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     129,92 ft / 39,60 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   4,33" / 110 mm   196,85 ft / 60,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     Main Belt covers 90% of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
     Main Belt inclined 7,00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,2" / 310 mm   11,4" / 290 mm      12,2" / 310 mm
   2nd:   4,33" / 110 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1,97" / 50 mm
   Forecastle: 1,97" / 50 mm  Quarter deck: 1,97" / 50 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12,01" / 305 mm, Aft 5,91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 23 200 ihp / 17 307 Kw = 20,00 kts
   Range 5 000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3 612 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   678 - 882

Cost:
   £1,292 million / $5,167 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 755 tons, 5,0%
      - Guns: 755 tons, 5,0%
   Armour: 3 853 tons, 25,6%
      - Belts: 1 698 tons, 11,3%
      - Armament: 1 021 tons, 6,8%
      - Armour Deck: 900 tons, 6,0%
      - Conning Towers: 235 tons, 1,6%
   Machinery: 3 625 tons, 24,1%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 048 tons, 26,9%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 753 tons, 18,3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17 161 lbs / 7 784 Kg = 18,9 x 12,2 " / 310 mm shells or 1,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,56
   Metacentric height 7,4 ft / 2,2 m
   Roll period: 12,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,29
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak, low quarterdeck ,
     a ram bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,696 / 0,704
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4,94 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -3,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30,00%,  19,03 ft / 5,80 m,  19,03 ft / 5,80 m
      - Forward deck:   20,00%,  18,70 ft / 5,70 m,  19,03 ft / 5,80 m
      - Aft deck:   20,00%,  18,70 ft / 5,70 m,  18,70 ft / 5,70 m
      - Quarter deck:   30,00%,  11,15 ft / 3,40 m,  11,15 ft / 3,40 m
      - Average freeboard:      16,57 ft / 5,05 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129,6%
   Waterplane Area: 24 563 Square feet or 2 282 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 635 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 2,34
      - Overall: 1,02
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Just a few things on the BB

Quote(121,60 m / 119,60 m) x 23,89 m (Bulges 24,19 m)  x (7,40 / 8,10 m)

over 120m  is not cool in the type of shipyards

QuoteMain Belt covers 90% of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
     Main Belt inclined 7,00 degrees (positive = in)

Belt too short
Inclined belt is not a 1900 techno

Quote- Protected deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1,97" / 50 mm
   Forecastle: 1,97" / 50 mm  Quarter deck: 1,97" / 50 mm

50mm is short

QuoteRange 5 000nm at 14,00 kts

... & 12kts for the cruiser
10kts is a classic cruising speed in 1900

Quote- Overall: 1,02

Overall: 1.00

Ok, thanks )

Have a look on the different fleet built by actual players, then, compare the type of warships.
& , of course, historical Iberian ships.
Choose your strategy, your battle tactic & built your Armada.

Don't forget, actual Navalism theme is:
Colonial conquest.

Jef  ;)

Pelayo, Spain Battleship laid down 1885 (Engine 1890)
Barbette ship

Displacement:
   8 371 t light; 8 852 t standard; 9 343 t normal; 9 737 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (335,47 ft / 331,40 ft) x 59,68 ft (Bulges 66,24 ft) x (23,95 / 24,88 ft)
   (102,25 m / 101,01 m) x 18,19 m (Bulges 20,19 m)  x (7,30 / 7,58 m)

Armament:
      2 - 12,60" / 320 mm 40,0 cal guns - 921,60lbs / 418,03kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1885 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      2 - 10,00" / 254 mm 40,0 cal guns - 460,89lbs / 209,05kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1885 Model
     1 x Single mount on sides, aft deck forward
     1 x Single mount on sides, aft deck forward
      9 - 5,51" / 140 mm 45,0 cal guns - 81,21lbs / 36,84kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1885 Model
     9 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      9 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      5 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 5,48lbs / 2,49kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1885 Model
     5 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      5 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3 523 lbs / 1 598 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      7 - 14,0" / 356 mm, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m torpedoes - 0,210 t each, 1,469 t total
   submerged side tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   17,8" / 451 mm   200,13 ft / 61,00 m   7,22 ft / 2,20 m
   Ends:   11,4" / 290 mm   114,83 ft / 35,00 m   7,22 ft / 2,20 m
     16,44 ft / 5,01 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 93% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:         -            -         15,7" / 400 mm
   2nd:         -            -         15,7" / 400 mm
   3rd:   3,07" / 78 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 0,00" / 0 mm
   Forecastle: 0,24" / 6 mm  Quarter deck: 0,00" / 0 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 6,14" / 156 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9 407 ihp / 7 018 Kw = 17,06 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 885 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   474 - 617

Cost:
   £0,734 million / $2,935 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 679 tons, 7,3%
      - Guns: 676 tons, 7,2%
      - Weapons: 3 tons, 0,0%
   Armour: 2 847 tons, 30,5%
      - Belts: 1 523 tons, 16,3%
      - Armament: 1 259 tons, 13,5%
      - Armour Deck: 6 tons, 0,1%
      - Conning Tower: 59 tons, 0,6%
   Machinery: 1 742 tons, 18,6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 854 tons, 30,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 972 tons, 10,4%
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 2,7%
      - On freeboard deck: 250 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11 126 lbs / 5 047 Kg = 12,0 x 12,6 " / 320 mm shells or 11,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,40
   Metacentric height 4,1 ft / 1,3 m
   Roll period: 13,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 88 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,41
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,76

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,622 / 0,624
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18,20 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6,56 ft / -2,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  18,41 ft / 5,61 m,  17,75 ft / 5,41 m
      - Forward deck:   20,00%,  17,75 ft / 5,41 m,  17,75 ft / 5,41 m
      - Aft deck:   40,00%,  17,75 ft / 5,41 m,  17,75 ft / 5,41 m
      - Quarter deck:   20,00%,  17,75 ft / 5,41 m,  18,08 ft / 5,51 m
      - Average freeboard:      17,83 ft / 5,44 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 105,3%
   Waterplane Area: 14 764 Square feet or 1 372 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 137 lbs/sq ft or 671 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 3,37
      - Overall: 1,07
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Many things about that design would make it illegal for official inclusion in the sim. If it is intended as such, please make sure it complies with the rules here (http://www.navalism.org/index.php/board,486.0.html).

What things, for example?

--Guns are of the wrong caliber.
--Mixed Main Battery not allowed for the listed laydown year.
--Torpedo need to be listed under Misc Weights, not under the weapons tab.
--For non refits, Bulges are frowned on.

Some other things you may want to correct as well
--The armor belts are to short to provide good coverage while being way to thick. Trade thickness for hight.
--Lack of upper belt is highly abnormal.
--You have no armored deck. the 6mm on the forcastle is to thin to stop any naval round.
--Round sterns were not typical of the period, the most common form would be cruiser.
--You still have leftover composite strength.

Quote--For non refits, Bulges are frowned on.

Maybe, but looking at the picture of the OTL vessel, that is probably how I would sim it as well...
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Pelayo_diagrams_Brasseys_1896.jpg/1024px-Pelayo_diagrams_Brasseys_1896.jpg)

Quote--The armor belts are to short to provide good coverage while being way to thick. Trade thickness for hight.

Looking at the picture, it does look that it was short OTL. OTL it was 17.75-11.75 inches which is how it was simmed, no matter how odd it might look. I'm a bit more worried about the 5 meters unprotected bit between main and end belts.

Quote--Lack of upper belt is highly abnormal.

Looking at the picture... well, all I can say is that it looks like the French sabotaged that design. :)

More seriously, I have seen more pics of OTL old ships that did not have an upper belt so to say that it is highly abnormal is not quite right.

Quote--You have no armored deck. the 6mm on the forcastle is to thin to stop any naval round.

That to me is a bit of a flaw... but who cares about the 6mm being to thin to stop any naval round? The main part of the ship does not have any deck armor to stop anything.

Quote--Round sterns were not typical of the period, the most common form would be cruiser.

Maybe, but considering that this aspect has no effect on the sim, it is not something that I would bother with. It is not like transom stern was used.

edit: messing around with SS3, I feel that for the side view that SS gives, the round stern is a better option than the cruiser stern.

Idea...
You could imagine a rebuilt of the Pelayo in 1896-98 with 4T2x240/40 cal (or 35cal) in place of the 4 barbettes to have a boardside of 6 heavy guns.
...new engines

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNSpain_Main.htm

Jef

Quote from: snip on January 25, 2016, 03:08:17 PM
--Guns are of the wrong caliber.

First of all, I've tried to sim a real warship. Here it is:
(http://www.shipbucket.com/Real%20Designs/Spain/BB%20Pelayo.png)

in accordance with Wiki info, Pelayo had the following armament:

Armament:   
(1898 as reconstructed)
2 × 32-centimetre (12.6 in) guns - barbette
2 × 28-centimetre (11.0 in) guns - barbette
9 × 14-centimetre (5.51 in) guns - casemates
5 × 6 pounder quick-firing guns - on deck
7 × 14-inch (356-mm) torpedo tubes -underwater

And in my post I'd tried to simulate it. is there another method in SS3 to simulate this list of armament?

Quote--Mixed Main Battery not allowed for the listed laydown year.

well, I've showed the 11 inch guns as secondaries at my sim. But in real they were in real ship as second main caliber.

Quote--Torpedo need to be listed under Misc Weights, not under the weapons tab.

ok, I'll correct it according the rules

Quote--For non refits, Bulges are frowned on.

those bulges is not bulges, but they give an opportunity to simulate the french-style hull, when beam at the main deck shotret that beam at the waterline

QuoteSome other things you may want to correct as well
--The armor belts are to short to provide good coverage while being way to thick. Trade thickness for hight.
--Lack of upper belt is highly abnormal.
--You have no armored deck. the 6mm on the forcastle is to thin to stop any naval round.

Here is the sheme of armour of Pelayo in 1895:
(http://s004.radikal.ru/i206/1312/24/8999b9267b0d.jpg)

Yes, i have some mistakes in this point. But there is no any upper belt and deck armour here.

Quote--Round sterns were not typical of the period, the most common form would be cruiser.

That's  not right. Wiki cites different options for the stern here:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/dd/Sterns.jpg/1920px-Sterns.jpg)

And if to compare with Pelayo stern, round will be closest to reality variant.

Quote--You still have leftover composite strength.

According to the rules composite strength must be more than 1 in BB/AC designs. Warship in my sim has 1,07.

QuoteAnd in my post I'd tried to simulate it. is there another method in SS3 to simulate this list of armament?

With the "wrong caliber" bit, he was referring to the length of the guns in calibers. When you look here...

http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,6440.msg84009.html#msg84009

... you will see that the maximum length the 320mm guns (falling in the 14" category) can be is 35 calibers and when you look at this picture...
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Acorazado_Pelayo%2C_1890.svg/1178px-Acorazado_Pelayo%2C_1890.svg.png)
... you will see that both those 320mm and 280mm guns were 35 calibers long, not the 40 that you used in your sim.

Quotewell, I've showed the 11 inch guns as secondaries at my sim. But in real they were in real ship as second main caliber.

Actually you used 254mm guns and not 280mm (not that it really matters with the rules of mixed main gun armament)...

Even though with SS the secondary gun position is used, per rules it is considered a main gun with the "Mixed Main Battery" bit (so the 320mm guns are your main main guns while the 280mm guns are the secondary main guns but still main guns like the 320mm guns).

That is one minor issue that you can run into when working with historical ships. You may find out that with the rules that there are a few ships you cannot sim using their historical laid down date. You can still use this design but then you should change the year it was laid down to minimum of 1893 to be able to use the mixed main gun battery layout.

QuoteYes, i have some mistakes in this point. But there is no any upper belt and deck armour here.

I actually threw the picture that I pasted into MSPaint to see how tall the belt was and it does appear to be close to what you used in your sim. Ideally one would like to have the belts to have a greater height for better protection, but that would no doubt have gone at the cost of either the thickness of the belt or the size of the ship. For the OTL design, they obviously went for thickness over height coverage.

Still the image you posted also shows a deck thickness of 70mm in the cross section, something you might have overlooked... which is a lot more than the 6mm forecastle armor you used...

QuoteAnd if to compare with Pelayo stern, round will be closest to reality variant.

If one were to ask me, I would select figure 25 to be the one that matches the Pelayo's stern the best and which according to wiki is "round".

QuoteAccording to the rules composite strength must be more than 1 in BB/AC designs. Warship in my sim has 1,07.

Actually must be equal or or more than 1, although we usually go for 1. So you still have 0.07 hull strength left to play with which might help close the gaps between main and end belts.

Here is version with corrected mistakes:

Pelayo, Spain Battleship laid down 1893 (Engine 1890)
Barbette ship

Displacement:
   8 484 t light; 8 996 t standard; 9 494 t normal; 9 891 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (335,47 ft / 331,40 ft) x 59,68 ft (Bulges 66,24 ft) x (23,95 / 24,88 ft)
   (102,25 m / 101,01 m) x 18,19 m (Bulges 20,19 m)  x (7,30 / 7,58 m)

Armament:
      2 - 12,60" / 320 mm 35,0 cal guns - 937,48lbs / 425,23kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1893 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      2 - 11,02" / 280 mm 35,0 cal guns - 628,04lbs / 284,87kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1893 Model
     1 x Single mount on sides, forward deck aft
     1 x Single mount on sides, forward deck aft
      12 - 4,72" / 120 mm 35,0 cal guns - 49,44lbs / 22,42kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1893 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      5 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 5,70lbs / 2,58kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1893 Model
     5 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      5 raised mounts
      1 - 6,30" / 160 mm 35,0 cal gun - 117,18lbs / 53,15kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1893 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      1 hull mount in casemate- Limited use in heavy seas
      Weight of broadside 3 870 lbs / 1 755 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   17,7" / 450 mm   200,13 ft / 61,00 m   7,22 ft / 2,20 m
   Ends:   11,8" / 300 mm   131,23 ft / 40,00 m   7,22 ft / 2,20 m
     Main Belt covers 93% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:         -            -         15,7" / 400 mm
   2nd:   1,97" / 50 mm         -         15,7" / 400 mm
   3rd:   2,95" / 75 mm         -               -
   5th:   2,95" / 75 mm         -               -

   - Box over machinery & magazines:
   2,95" / 75 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 5,91" / 150 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9 536 ihp / 7 114 Kw = 17,06 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 895 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   480 - 625

Cost:
   £0,731 million / $2,925 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 605 tons, 6,4%
      - Guns: 605 tons, 6,4%
   Armour: 3 598 tons, 37,9%
      - Belts: 1 586 tons, 16,7%
      - Armament: 1 343 tons, 14,1%
      - Armour Deck: 613 tons, 6,5%
      - Conning Tower: 57 tons, 0,6%
   Machinery: 1 766 tons, 18,6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 492 tons, 26,2%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 009 tons, 10,6%
   Miscellaneous weights: 23 tons, 0,2%
      - Hull below water: 7 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 16 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11 110 lbs / 5 040 Kg = 11,1 x 12,6 " / 320 mm shells or 1,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,14
   Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m
   Roll period: 16,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,72

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,632 / 0,634
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18,20 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 82
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6,56 ft / -2,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  18,41 ft / 5,61 m,  17,42 ft / 5,31 m
      - Forward deck:   20,00%,  17,42 ft / 5,31 m,  17,42 ft / 5,31 m
      - Aft deck:   40,00%,  17,42 ft / 5,31 m,  17,42 ft / 5,31 m
      - Quarter deck:   20,00%,  17,42 ft / 5,31 m,  17,75 ft / 5,41 m
      - Average freeboard:      17,53 ft / 5,34 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81,1%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 103,0%
   Waterplane Area: 14 902 Square feet or 1 384 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 119 lbs/sq ft or 583 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,88
      - Longitudinal: 3,07
      - Overall: 1,00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

I have no objections to the class (but then again I like weird ships), a thought though would you be better going with a uniform 11 inch MB instead of the mix of 11 inch and 12 inch?  Possibly 11 inch twins fore and aft with 11 inch singles on the wings.  by Nverse standards it is over armoured (at least the 17 inch main belt is awfully heavy by our standards (note I am not saying that's a bad thing just pointing it out).

I see you added the 16cm gun to it as well. To be honest I looked at the picture many times and I just could not find it only to realize a few minutes ago while I was grumbling about the fact that the picture used the board's background instead of white that it is right there sticking out at the front (so not aft as you simmed it). Guess I need a pair of glasses. :)

Looking at it, it is a design that does not really allow itself to be simmed with SS without a struggle. I am fairly sure that if I were to do it and try to match the sim exactly with the picture, hull strength would end up well below 1.

Quotebut then again I like weird ships

Maybe because you are weird? ;D

Quotea thought though would you be better going with a uniform 11 inch MB instead of the mix of 11 inch and 12 inch?  Possibly 11 inch twins fore and aft with 11 inch singles on the wings.

Would the uniform main battery not require the 1902 tech? To me it would (though I could be wrong).

Due to the inclusion of 280mm guns, this is still not a legal N-verse design (Didn't notice the date change, my bad). Also, the inclusion of tumblehome would need to be discussed. Bulges on non-refitted ships, while not explicitly outlawed, are not something we really want to see proliferate. Unfortunelty there is no good way to sim tumblehome outside of that.

Quote from: Walter on January 26, 2016, 07:56:40 AM
Would the uniform main battery not require the 1902 tech? To me it would (though I could be wrong).

It would.

The above being said, its a good sim of the historical ship. I still think the cruiser stern is the correct way due to the top-down view posted earlier in the thread, but as noted it has no practical outcome on the sim itself. Im not sure Box is the right configuration for the deck armor ether. To my knowledge, that option is meant to cover 1930's cruiser schemes.

I would like to see your take on some N-verse legal ships that the USN decorated the bottom of Santiago with from the same era.

Try out the Infanta Maria Teresa-class armored cruiser olekit.  I have done it several times (what I like the ship), even used a version for my startup fleet.  Dandy ships, even if the USN smashed em flat.

QuoteDue to the inclusion of 280mm guns, this is still not a legal N-verse design.

What? Why? Would it not fall under the 1891 Mixed-caliber main battery? So is it not correct to use that on a 1893 design? Am I missing something? Are there calibers between the main caliber and 155mm guns that we are not allowed to use and that have not been posted?  ???

QuoteI still think the cruiser stern is the correct way due to the top-down view posted earlier in the thread, but as noted it has no practical outcome on the sim itself.

I disagree. Looking at those wiki pics, it matches one of the top views of the round stern (the top left one of figure 25). With cruiser stern I think more of figure 26 considering that that is what SS shows me when I use the cruiser stern option and that one does not match the stern of the Pelayo at all.

Actually considering that that pointy stern in figure 25 falls under the round stern option, I think that the top view has absolutely nothing to do with 'round stern'. If that were the case than the sterns of figure 21, 23, 25 (except the pointy one) and 26 should all be considered round stern but they are not.

O, the laydown date was changed. My bad.

Yes, it was changed so it should be legal.

As for round the round stern bit, I get the impression that the roundness that determines that is:
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg240/WvRooijen/Navalism/Various/Round_zpsmqfwexg8.png)

ok. here is Infanta Maria Teresa AC

Infanta Maria Teresa, Spain Armored cruiser laid down 1898 (Engine 1890)
Barbette ship

Displacement:
   6 932 t light; 7 264 t standard; 7 865 t normal; 8 346 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (364,01 ft / 357,45 ft) x 65,16 ft x (21,49 / 22,53 ft)
   (110,95 m / 108,95 m) x 19,86 m  x (6,55 / 6,87 m)

Armament:
      2 - 11,02" / 280 mm 35,0 cal guns - 628,04lbs / 284,87kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1891 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      10 - 5,51" / 140 mm 35,0 cal guns - 78,50lbs / 35,61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1891 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm 42,0 cal guns - 5,48lbs / 2,49kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1891 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1891 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      Weight of broadside 2 097 lbs / 951 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   218,01 ft / 66,45 m   5,51 ft / 1,68 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 94% of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:         -            -         10,5" / 267 mm

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2,99" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 2,01" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2,01" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12,01" / 305 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 13 855 ihp / 10 336 Kw = 19,64 kts
   Range 4 200nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 082 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   416 - 542

Cost:
   £0,698 million / $2,791 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 314 tons, 4,0%
      - Guns: 314 tons, 4,0%
   Armour: 1 945 tons, 24,7%
      - Belts: 654 tons, 8,3%
      - Armament: 371 tons, 4,7%
      - Armour Deck: 818 tons, 10,4%
      - Conning Tower: 102 tons, 1,3%
   Machinery: 2 566 tons, 32,6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 103 tons, 26,7%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 933 tons, 11,9%
   Miscellaneous weights: 4 tons, 0,1%
      - Hull above water: 4 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6 779 lbs / 3 075 Kg = 10,1 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 1,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,52
   Metacentric height 5,4 ft / 1,6 m
   Roll period: 11,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,26
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,68

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,550 / 0,557
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,49 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18,91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -9,84 ft / -3,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   24,00%,  16,50 ft / 5,03 m,  16,50 ft / 5,03 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  16,50 ft / 5,03 m,  16,50 ft / 5,03 m
      - Aft deck:   22,00%,  16,50 ft / 5,03 m,  16,50 ft / 5,03 m
      - Quarter deck:   24,00%,  16,50 ft / 5,03 m,  16,50 ft / 5,03 m
      - Average freeboard:      16,50 ft / 5,03 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 118,5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122,8%
   Waterplane Area: 16 254 Square feet or 1 510 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 96 lbs/sq ft or 467 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,90
      - Longitudinal: 2,56
      - Overall: 1,00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

And another one design

Aragon, Iberia Union Battleship laid down 1901 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   11 925 t light; 12 602 t standard; 13 438 t normal; 14 107 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (392,52 ft / 385,96 ft) x 75,23 ft x (25,59 / 26,66 ft)
   (119,64 m / 117,64 m) x 22,93 m  x (7,80 / 8,13 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12,01" / 305 mm 40,0 cal guns - 829,70lbs / 376,34kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1891 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
      14 - 5,98" / 152 mm 40,0 cal guns - 102,70lbs / 46,58kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1891 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 2,99" / 76,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,51lbs / 6,13kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1891 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 5,70lbs / 2,58kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1891 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 4 899 lbs / 2 222 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   250,66 ft / 76,40 m   8,20 ft / 2,50 m
   Ends:   5,91" / 150 mm   134,51 ft / 41,00 m   6,56 ft / 2,00 m
     0,79 ft / 0,24 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3,94" / 100 mm   229,66 ft / 70,00 m   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

   - Hull void:
      0,00" / 0 mm     0,00 ft / 0,00 m   0,00 ft / 0,00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7,87" / 200 mm   3,54" / 90 mm      12,0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   5,98" / 152 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2,99" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 2,99" / 76 mm  Quarter deck: 2,99" / 76 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12,01" / 305 mm, Aft 5,91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 19 646 ihp / 14 656 Kw = 19,67 kts
   Range 5 000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 505 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   623 - 811

Cost:
   £1,190 million / $4,761 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 860 tons, 6,4%
      - Guns: 860 tons, 6,4%
   Armour: 4 260 tons, 31,7%
      - Belts: 1 873 tons, 13,9%
      - Armament: 947 tons, 7,0%
      - Armour Deck: 1 222 tons, 9,1%
      - Conning Towers: 218 tons, 1,6%
   Machinery: 3 070 tons, 22,8%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 626 tons, 27,0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 513 tons, 11,3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 110 tons, 0,8%
      - Hull void weights: 100 tons
      - Hull above water: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14 226 lbs / 6 453 Kg = 16,4 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 1,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,20
   Metacentric height 4,5 ft / 1,4 m
   Roll period: 14,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,66
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,46

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck ,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,633 / 0,638
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,13 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -4,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -9,84 ft / -3,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   13,00%,  20,44 ft / 6,23 m,  19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forward deck:   20,00%,  19,69 ft / 6,00 m,  19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Aft deck:   50,00%,  19,69 ft / 6,00 m,  19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Quarter deck:   17,00%,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m
      - Average freeboard:      18,50 ft / 5,64 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99,0%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131,8%
   Waterplane Area: 21 898 Square feet or 2 034 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 625 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,89
      - Longitudinal: 2,84
      - Overall: 1,00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

On Ifanta Maria Teresa:

Quote2 - 11,02" / 280 mm 35,0 cal guns - 628,04lbs / 284,87kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1891 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft

You don't need to specify the position of each gun. The option "majority forward" and/or "majority aft" covers the layout you are trying to do.

QuoteMain Belt covers 94% of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

In addition it's armored as AON which is against the rules since it too early for that tech and Spain does not have that tech.

Quote- Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2,99" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 2,01" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2,01" / 51 mm

Armored deck is very thick.


On the Aragon:

Quote4- 12,01" / 305 mm 40,0 cal guns - 829,70lbs / 376,34kg shells, 150 per gun
    Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1891 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft

You have 4 guns and only two mounts... but the two mounts are "singles" so you have 2 unaccounted guns.

Quote0,79 ft / 0,24 m Unarmoured ends

Your belt doesn't cover the whole ship.

Quote- Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2,99" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 2,99" / 76 mm  Quarter deck: 2,99" / 76 mm

That's very thick deck armor for the period. You have an armored belt along with a protected deck which is your prerogative, but I feel it is a bit questionable.

QuoteMiscellaneous weights: 110 tons, 0,8%
      - Hull void weights: 100 tons
      - Hull above water: 10 tons

What are you using this Misc weight for? Please declare it at the end of the file. You can add it to the "notes" section before making the report to automatically place it at the end of the report.


And as reminder, you select a small set of Naval Guns, usually historic ones, at the start of the sim which do not exceed 1900 Naval Gun tech as a foundation. Other and newer guns have to be separated researched in your sim reports.

QuoteIn addition it's armored as AON which is against the rules since it too early for that tech and Spain does not have that tech.

True. Something slightly different what would be the best way to sim those end belts of the Infanta Maria Teresa? Its height goes from that of the main belt where it is connected to the main belt all the way to nothing at the ends when I look at the image at wiki.

QuoteArmored deck is very thick.

It is thick, yes, but that is what Wiki gives for the Infata. So the other might not be that unreasonable. I would have to check...

Would we be able to see your take on some smaller designs such as destroyers? Please familiarise yourself with our rules on such as well.

TB-1, Iberia Destroyer laid down 1900

Displacement:
   370 t light; 382 t standard; 411 t normal; 433 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (207,71 ft / 205,12 ft) x 17,62 ft x (9,51 / 9,87 ft)
   (63,31 m / 62,52 m) x 5,37 m  x (2,90 / 3,01 m)

Armament:
      2 - 2,99" / 76,0 mm 40,0 cal guns - 12,84lbs / 5,82kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm 40,0 cal guns - 5,42lbs / 2,46kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 - 0,47" / 12,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 0,05lbs / 0,02kg shells, 150 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 48 lbs / 22 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6 476 ihp / 4 831 Kw = 25,00 kts
   Range 1 300nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 51 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   45 - 59

Cost:
   £0,050 million / $0,199 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 8 tons, 1,8%
      - Guns: 8 tons, 1,8%
   Armour: 1 tons, 0,2%
      - Armament: 1 tons, 0,2%
   Machinery: 246 tons, 59,9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 114 tons, 27,8%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 41 tons, 9,9%
   Miscellaneous weights: 2 tons, 0,4%
      - On freeboard deck: 2 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     87 lbs / 40 Kg = 6,5 x 3,0 " / 76 mm shells or 0,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,14
   Metacentric height 0,5 ft / 0,1 m
   Roll period: 10,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,25
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,418 / 0,425
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11,64 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14,32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -1,96 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,12 ft / 0,34 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25,00%,  12,14 ft / 3,70 m,  11,48 ft / 3,50 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  6,56 ft / 2,00 m,  6,56 ft / 2,00 m
      - Aft deck:   30,00%,  6,56 ft / 2,00 m,  6,56 ft / 2,00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  6,56 ft / 2,00 m,  6,89 ft / 2,10 m
      - Average freeboard:      7,88 ft / 2,40 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 198,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 62,5%
   Waterplane Area: 2 250 Square feet or 209 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 20%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 23 lbs/sq ft or 114 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,68
      - Longitudinal: 2,36
      - Overall: 0,78
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Miscellaneous weights: 2 tons, 0,4%
-   4x356mm torpedo tubes

Trial Speed: 28.5
Bonus: 3.5

Correct TB1

Quote- Cross-sectional: 0,68

inf limit to cross sectional is 0.5
=> you could increase armament, shells, speed, range, beam...
to have 0.5

Jef

Jef, why?

To have better performances  ;)

Jef

As jef says I would rework the DD a bit to improve it's performance.  you can go as low as a .5 composite strength, possibly add some misc weight to it, make it a touch faster, or add another gun.  That said you don't have to but I would personally recommend it.

Quote from: Jefgte on January 29, 2016, 02:29:39 AM
To have better performances  ;)

Jef

Quote from: Tanthalas on January 29, 2016, 06:15:28 AM
As jef says I would rework the DD a bit to improve it's performance.  you can go as low as a .5 composite strength, possibly add some misc weight to it, make it a touch faster, or add another gun.  That said you don't have to but I would personally recommend it.

Quote from: Jefgte on January 29, 2016, 02:29:39 AM
To have better performances  ;)

Jef

Thanks, I'll rework it ))

One more design. The prototype of it - armoured cruiser Princesa de Asturias.

Princesa de Asturias, Spain Battleship laid down 1898 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   6 554 t light; 6 984 t standard; 7 576 t normal; 8 049 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (348,26 ft / 344,32 ft) x 62,66 ft x (19,29 / 20,31 ft)
   (106,15 m / 104,95 m) x 19,10 m  x (5,88 / 6,19 m)

Armament:
      4 - 11,02" / 280 mm 35,0 cal guns - 628,03lbs / 284,87kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck forward
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      10 - 5,51" / 140 mm 35,0 cal guns - 78,51lbs / 35,61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 5,71lbs / 2,59kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 3 343 lbs / 1 516 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7,87" / 200 mm   226,35 ft / 68,99 m   7,22 ft / 2,20 m
   Ends:   3,15" / 80 mm   117,95 ft / 35,95 m   7,22 ft / 2,20 m
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7,99" / 203 mm   1,97" / 50 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   5,51" / 140 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2,56" / 65 mm
   Forecastle: 1,57" / 40 mm  Quarter deck: 1,57" / 40 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10,08" / 256 mm, Aft 2,95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 10 314 ihp / 7 694 Kw = 18,10 kts
   Range 5 000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 065 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   405 - 527

Cost:
   £0,669 million / $2,676 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 455 tons, 6,0%
      - Guns: 455 tons, 6,0%
   Armour: 2 028 tons, 26,8%
      - Belts: 677 tons, 8,9%
      - Armament: 519 tons, 6,9%
      - Armour Deck: 723 tons, 9,5%
      - Conning Towers: 108 tons, 1,4%
   Machinery: 1 612 tons, 21,3%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 427 tons, 32,0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 022 tons, 13,5%
   Miscellaneous weights: 32 tons, 0,4%
      - Hull below water: 2 tons
      - Hull above water: 30 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8 513 lbs / 3 862 Kg = 12,7 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 1,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,25
   Metacentric height 3,7 ft / 1,1 m
   Roll period: 13,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,73
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,57

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,637 / 0,643
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,49 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18,56 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3,28 ft / -1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  17,06 ft / 5,20 m,  16,08 ft / 4,90 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  15,75 ft / 4,80 m,  15,42 ft / 4,70 m
      - Aft deck:   35,00%,  15,42 ft / 4,70 m,  15,42 ft / 4,70 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  15,42 ft / 4,70 m,  16,08 ft / 4,90 m
      - Average freeboard:      15,73 ft / 4,79 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119,0%
   Waterplane Area: 16 333 Square feet or 1 517 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 113 lbs/sq ft or 551 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,90
      - Longitudinal: 2,53
      - Overall: 1,00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Miscellaneous weights: 32 tons
- 250+ miles radio - 25 tons
- 4 underwater TT 16' + reloads - 6 tons
- Admiral's salon and apartments equipment - 1 ton 

P.S. Changed.

Quote from: olekit24 on February 04, 2016, 12:40:25 AM

Princesa de Asturias, Spain Battleship laid down 1898 (Engine 1900)

Armament:
      4 - 11,02" / 280 mm 35,0 cal guns - 628,04lbs / 284,87kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck forward
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft

Something's not right here...

Quote from: eltf177 on February 04, 2016, 03:39:40 AM

Quote from: olekit24 on February 04, 2016, 12:40:25 AM

Princesa de Asturias, Spain Battleship laid down 1898 (Engine 1900)

Armament:
      4 - 11,02" / 280 mm 35,0 cal guns - 628,04lbs / 284,87kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck forward
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft

Something's not right here...

single. yes. changed in previous post.

Quote from: olekit24 on February 04, 2016, 12:40:25 AM
Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7,87" / 200 mm   223,10 ft / 68,00 m   7,22 ft / 2,20 m
   Ends:   3,15" / 80 mm     98,43 ft / 30,00 m   7,22 ft / 2,20 m
     22,80 ft / 6,95 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

I'm frequently guilty of this as well, but you might want to double check that you want the ends to have no armor. 

Changed at previous post