Trying to do my H1 and H2 reports... and I find myself in a bit of a quandary. Build Battlecruisers, Build Armored Cruisers, or build Protected Cruisers... the decision will be atleast partialy determind by what tech I pick, but I thought hey why not post all 3 and ask for opinions.
First up would be obviously the Battlecruiser (so what if I call it an Armored Frigate, we all know what they realy are). Esentialy repeats of the previous Admiral class, just with better guns (cause lets face it the shell weight on my existing 11" is kinda pathetic). This choice would entail me taking the 1900 naval artillery tech.
Admiral Class Flight 2, Netherlands Armored Frigate laid down 1900
Displacement:
11,000 t light; 11,568 t standard; 13,114 t normal; 14,350 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(464.00 ft / 464.00 ft) x 64.00 ft x (27.00 / 29.04 ft)
(141.43 m / 141.43 m) x 19.51 m x (8.23 / 8.85 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
Weight of broadside 5,276 lbs / 2,393 kg
Main Torpedoes
6 - 16.0" / 406 mm, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m torpedoes - 0.335 t each, 2.010 t total
In 6 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 302.00 ft / 92.05 m 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 162.00 ft / 49.38 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 301.00 ft / 91.74 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 1.50" / 38 mm - -
3rd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 18,202 ihp / 13,579 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,782 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
612 - 796
Cost:
£1.215 million / $4.861 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 934 tons, 7.1 %
- Guns: 931 tons, 7.1 %
- Weapons: 3 tons, 0.0 %
Armour: 3,843 tons, 29.3 %
- Belts: 2,423 tons, 18.5 %
- Armament: 583 tons, 4.4 %
- Armour Deck: 716 tons, 5.5 %
- Conning Tower: 120 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 2,816 tons, 21.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,336 tons, 25.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,114 tons, 16.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 71 tons, 0.5 %
- On freeboard deck: 71 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11,520 lbs / 5,225 Kg = 17.3 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 6.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.36
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.572 / 0.582
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.25 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.54 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Average freeboard: 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 86.3 %
Waterplane Area: 21,165 Square feet or 1,966 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 117 lbs/sq ft or 569 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.58
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
71 tons Misc. weight
12 tons 6 torpedos and 6 reloads
59 tons "Reserve" (aka I will fill it in when I figure it out)
Second option (not so realistic but would entail taking the same tech), has the advantage of well costing less... the Armored Cruiser (even if I call it a second class Armored Frigate). Still quite a capable ship, just not as capable as the big girl.
Colony Class, Unified Netherlands Armored Frigate (2nd Class) laid down 1900
Displacement:
8,000 t light; 8,434 t standard; 9,704 t normal; 10,720 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(400.00 ft / 400.00 ft) x 61.00 ft x (26.00 / 28.12 ft)
(121.92 m / 121.92 m) x 18.59 m x (7.92 / 8.57 m)
Armament:
4 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
Weight of broadside 3,944 lbs / 1,789 kg
Main Torpedoes
4 - 16.0" / 406 mm, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m torpedoes - 0.335 t each, 1.340 t total
In 4 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 290.00 ft / 88.39 m 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 110.00 ft / 33.53 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 260.00 ft / 79.25 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 1.50" / 38 mm - -
3rd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 6.00" / 152 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 15,812 ihp / 11,796 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,286 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
488 - 635
Cost:
£0.933 million / $3.733 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 681 tons, 7.0 %
- Guns: 679 tons, 7.0 %
- Weapons: 2 tons, 0.0 %
Armour: 2,286 tons, 23.6 %
- Belts: 1,211 tons, 12.5 %
- Armament: 448 tons, 4.6 %
- Armour Deck: 568 tons, 5.9 %
- Conning Tower: 59 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 2,446 tons, 25.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,549 tons, 26.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,704 tons, 17.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 38 tons, 0.4 %
- On freeboard deck: 38 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
7,401 lbs / 3,357 Kg = 11.1 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 4.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 13.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.34
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.535 / 0.547
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.56 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Average freeboard: 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 85.9 %
Waterplane Area: 16,797 Square feet or 1,560 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 110 lbs/sq ft or 536 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.09
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
38 tons Misc Weight on "Stuff"
and lastly the "Protected Cruiser", in many ways this is the ship I should build (even if I dont realy want to). Would obviously entail taking the cruiser tech but my light cruisers are 10 years old... they kinda need to be replaced (or atleast augmented).
City Class Cruiser (Generation 2), Unified Netherlands Protected Cruiser laid down 1900
Displacement:
3,750 t light; 3,887 t standard; 4,362 t normal; 4,742 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(383.00 ft / 383.00 ft) x 43.75 ft x (19.00 / 20.21 ft)
(116.74 m / 116.74 m) x 13.34 m x (5.79 / 6.16 m)
Armament:
4 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1900 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.27lbs / 14.64kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 594 lbs / 269 kg
Main Torpedoes
4 - 16.0" / 406 mm, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m torpedoes - 0.245 t each, 0.981 t total
In 4 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.50" / 38 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
- Protected deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11,352 ihp / 8,469 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 5,800nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 855 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
267 - 348
Cost:
£0.426 million / $1.703 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 147 tons, 3.4 %
- Guns: 146 tons, 3.3 %
- Weapons: 1 tons, 0.0 %
Armour: 571 tons, 13.1 %
- Armament: 33 tons, 0.8 %
- Armour Deck: 537 tons, 12.3 %
Machinery: 1,743 tons, 40.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,228 tons, 28.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 612 tons, 14.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 61 tons, 1.4 %
- On freeboard deck: 61 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,557 lbs / 1,160 Kg = 23.7 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 3.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 11.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.67
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.480 / 0.490
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.75 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.57 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Average freeboard: 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 140.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102.3 %
Waterplane Area: 10,964 Square feet or 1,019 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 94 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 71 lbs/sq ft or 345 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.71
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
61 tons Misc Weight Torps and "stuff"
Well, the big ones will need to mount L40s as opposed to L45s. The L45 is only researchable with the correct gun tech and the earliest that tech would be available is 1900H1. So even if you take the tech as your freebee, it would still take two years to research then gun. Building those in 1902 is possible, 1900 not so much.
Also, GET THE TORPS OUT OF THE WEAPONS TAB! (Getting real tiered of saying this)
I only list the torps to show where they are (mostly to satisfy my OCDness about everything being grouped together), I add aditional tonage in the misc weight to account for them (I know im proly paying for them twice but *shrug* it works and my OCD is satisfied). Damn knew I was forgeting somthing with the L45... DAMIT, uhm yeah so BCs would be exact repeats then, and I could still do the 8K AC, but not sure it would be worth it with the L40s although it would proly be lighter, or have better armor.
Quote from: snip on September 18, 2014, 01:20:04 PM
Well, the big ones will need to mount L40s as opposed to L45s. The L45 is only researchable with the correct gun tech and the earliest that tech would be available is 1900H1. So even if you take the tech as your freebee, it would still take two years to research then gun. Building those in 1902 is possible, 1900 not so much.
Also, GET THE TORPS OUT OF THE WEAPONS TAB! (Getting real tiered of saying this)
Apparently using the tab at all somehow buggers up the file if/when it's reloaded. I'd rather use it too, but it seems best not to even for the OCD relief.
I don't like the aft freeboard on these designs - they're going to be wet in a lot of the blue water the Dutch have to sail around in.
Of the two larger ships, I think I'd go with the big girl. Infrastructure needs are the same, but there's more bang and much better protection.
The protected cruiser's fine, but I'm not sure what your force ratio is, nor what you seek.
Honestly im tempted to build primarily Destroyers, "Light Cruisers", and "Battle Cruisers" with just enough ACs to round out deployments (aka ships to keep mostly in the Colonies). I think Idealy I would have somthing like 3 DD for each CL, 3 CL for each BC, and possibly 1 AC for each 2 BCs. Atleast that is the idea im working on atm.
Truth told Rock I dont like the aft freeboard, I would rather raise it another compleat deck, but I was scrounging for every bit of composite I could find so I kept it at one deck.
Hows it bugger the file? other than my normal loss of 7-14 tons (Every time I save ANY file in SS) I havnt had any issues.
I don't recall how it affected the files specifically - only did it once or twice, and that was a month or two back.
I wouldn't bother with both ACs and BCs. Go with BCs if you want to smash CLs. Go with shore batteries and/or monitors if you want big defensive guns.
the idea behind the Admiral class is it is fast enough to scare AC/CL but armored enough (even if it is under armored by my normal standard) to make a real BB stand up and take notice. I intend to run AQY layouts till I can go to aBqy and I intend to push capital ship speed as hard as I can in the process (within limits obviously as everyone knows Derfflinger is more or less my ideal ship). You should hypotheticly be able to watch my ships slowly evolve to that point.
Oh and TY Rock you answerd my question for me, now I know what to laydown.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 18, 2014, 07:36:57 PM
I don't recall how it affected the files specifically - only did it once or twice, and that was a month or two back.
I wouldn't bother with both ACs and BCs. Go with BCs if you want to smash CLs. Go with shore batteries and/or monitors if you want big defensive guns.
A diferent take on my Admiral class, consider these the likley Mk2 edition (What the Dutch have alot of famous Admirals). Mostly just messed around with the freeboard so they wouldnt be quite as wet as the previous version, but several minor changes including switching to 10% oil fired (but if you look realy realy close you might find hints of things to come)
Admiral Class Flight 2, Netherlands Armored Frigate laid down 1900
Displacement:
11,000 t light; 11,526 t standard; 13,069 t normal; 14,303 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(464.00 ft / 464.00 ft) x 64.00 ft x (27.00 / 29.04 ft)
(141.43 m / 141.43 m) x 19.51 m x (8.23 / 8.85 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 40.0 cal guns - 529.00lbs / 239.95kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
Weight of broadside 4,454 lbs / 2,020 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 301.60 ft / 91.93 m 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 162.38 ft / 49.49 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 301.60 ft / 91.93 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 1.50" / 38 mm - -
3rd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 18,155 ihp / 13,543 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,777 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
610 - 794
Cost:
£1.156 million / $4.623 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 818 tons, 6.3 %
- Guns: 818 tons, 6.3 %
Armour: 3,909 tons, 29.9 %
- Belts: 2,424 tons, 18.5 %
- Armament: 651 tons, 5.0 %
- Armour Deck: 715 tons, 5.5 %
- Conning Tower: 120 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 2,809 tons, 21.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,351 tons, 25.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,069 tons, 15.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 114 tons, 0.9 %
- On freeboard deck: 114 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12,725 lbs / 5,772 Kg = 19.1 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 13.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.54
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.570 / 0.580
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.25 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.54 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 18.20 ft / 5.55 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.20 ft / 5.55 m, 15.50 ft / 4.72 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 15.50 ft / 4.72 m, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Average freeboard: 15.28 ft / 4.66 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.9 %
Waterplane Area: 21,127 Square feet or 1,963 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 113 lbs/sq ft or 553 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.72
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
114 tons Misc. weight
12 tons 6 torpedos and 6 reloads
102 tons "Reserve" (aka I will fill it in when I figure it out)
and the latest creation of my mad mind, I think it is proly the best one so far honestly. Once again the Focus was on raising the freeboard as much as possible within my self imposed weight limit. OH and I distributed all the Misc. Weight so people would know what was on her.
Admirial Class Mk2, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate (1st Class) laid down 1900
Displacement:
11,000 t light; 11,540 t standard; 13,084 t normal; 14,319 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(464.00 ft / 464.00 ft) x 64.00 ft x (27.00 / 29.04 ft)
(141.43 m / 141.43 m) x 19.51 m x (8.23 / 8.85 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 40.0 cal guns - 529.00lbs / 239.95kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4,614 lbs / 2,093 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 301.00 ft / 91.74 m 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 163.00 ft / 49.68 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 301.00 ft / 91.74 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 5.00" / 127 mm - -
3rd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 18,170 ihp / 13,555 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,778 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
611 - 795
Cost:
£1.162 million / $4.650 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 835 tons, 6.4 %
- Guns: 835 tons, 6.4 %
Armour: 3,859 tons, 29.5 %
- Belts: 2,318 tons, 17.7 %
- Armament: 712 tons, 5.4 %
- Armour Deck: 710 tons, 5.4 %
- Conning Tower: 120 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 2,811 tons, 21.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,424 tons, 26.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,084 tons, 15.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 71 tons, 0.5 %
- Hull below water: 16 tons
- Hull above water: 20 tons
- On freeboard deck: 35 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
13,168 lbs / 5,973 Kg = 19.8 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
Metacentric height 4.0 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 13.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.66
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.571 / 0.581
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.25 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.54 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forward deck: 35.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Quarter deck: 20.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 16.45 ft / 5.01 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 105.4 %
Waterplane Area: 21,139 Square feet or 1,964 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 114 lbs/sq ft or 557 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.85
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
71 tons Misc. weight total
Hull below water: 16 tons
4 tons sides: four 18" torpedo tubes (one at either end of the Citidel per side)
12 tons: 3 reloads per tube
Hull above water: 20 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
10 tons: Reserve
On Main deck: 35 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
25 tons: reserve
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 18, 2014, 08:22:26 PM
the idea behind the Admiral class is it is fast enough to scare AC/CL but armored enough (even if it is under armored by my normal standard) to make a real BB stand up and take notice. I intend to run AQY layouts till I can go to aBqy and I intend to push capital ship speed as hard as I can in the process (within limits obviously as everyone knows Derfflinger is more or less my ideal ship). You should hypotheticly be able to watch my ships slowly evolve to that point.
Oh and TY Rock you answerd my question for me, now I know what to laydown.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 18, 2014, 07:36:57 PM
I don't recall how it affected the files specifically - only did it once or twice, and that was a month or two back.
I wouldn't bother with both ACs and BCs. Go with BCs if you want to smash CLs. Go with shore batteries and/or monitors if you want big defensive guns.
So what did you decide?
im thinking a pair of PCs in the 4K range, and 1 11K BC. Now I just have to decide which BC (I realy do kinda like the latest one) and which PC...
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 19, 2014, 08:41:18 AM
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 18, 2014, 08:22:26 PM
the idea behind the Admiral class is it is fast enough to scare AC/CL but armored enough (even if it is under armored by my normal standard) to make a real BB stand up and take notice. I intend to run AQY layouts till I can go to aBqy and I intend to push capital ship speed as hard as I can in the process (within limits obviously as everyone knows Derfflinger is more or less my ideal ship). You should hypotheticly be able to watch my ships slowly evolve to that point.
Oh and TY Rock you answerd my question for me, now I know what to laydown.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 18, 2014, 07:36:57 PM
I don't recall how it affected the files specifically - only did it once or twice, and that was a month or two back.
I wouldn't bother with both ACs and BCs. Go with BCs if you want to smash CLs. Go with shore batteries and/or monitors if you want big defensive guns.
So what did you decide?
Well I think im aobut settled in on this one for my new PC/CL (yes I think im going to take the 1900 cruiser tech, and I do have to decide before I can finish my H1 report...)
City Class Cruiser (Generation 2), Unified Netherlands Protected Cruiser laid down 1900
Displacement:
4,000 t light; 4,154 t standard; 4,648 t normal; 5,043 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(383.00 ft / 383.00 ft) x 43.75 ft x (20.00 / 21.26 ft)
(116.74 m / 116.74 m) x 13.34 m x (6.10 / 6.48 m)
Armament:
5 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1900 Model
5 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
3 raised mounts
6 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 740 lbs / 336 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.50" / 38 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
- Protected deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11,833 ihp / 8,828 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 5,800nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 889 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
280 - 365
Cost:
£0.456 million / $1.824 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 179 tons, 3.9 %
- Guns: 179 tons, 3.9 %
Armour: 600 tons, 12.9 %
- Armament: 42 tons, 0.9 %
- Armour Deck: 540 tons, 11.6 %
- Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,823 tons, 39.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,316 tons, 28.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 648 tons, 13.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 81 tons, 1.7 %
- On freeboard deck: 81 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,700 lbs / 1,225 Kg = 25.0 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.33
Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 11.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.79
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.485 / 0.496
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.75 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.57 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forward deck: 20.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Aft deck: 45.00 %, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Average freeboard: 14.80 ft / 4.51 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 139.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106.1 %
Waterplane Area: 11,016 Square feet or 1,023 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 94 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 73 lbs/sq ft or 356 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.00
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
81 tons Misc Weight Torps and "stuff" (will be distributed but on deck for now)
Not that I could build it any time soon (as the laydown date reflects), however I like to plan ahead, and I am curious if this would be legal under the rules. My idea was for a mixed power plant, 5,000 shp turbines on the outer 2 shafts with a 15000 shp VTE on the center shaft (I ended up at 17,093 on the center shaft so I got close). But I couldnt find anything in the rules about if it was legal or not so I thought I would go ahead and post it and ask for opinions.
Saint Michael, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate (First Class) laid down 1905
Displacement:
13,000 t light; 13,612 t standard; 15,169 t normal; 16,415 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(528.00 ft / 528.00 ft) x 80.00 ft x (26.00 / 27.57 ft)
(160.93 m / 160.93 m) x 24.38 m x (7.92 / 8.40 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 85 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,436 lbs / 2,466 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 330.00 ft / 100.58 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 197.00 ft / 60.05 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
1.00 ft / 0.30 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 260.00 ft / 79.25 m 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
Main Belt covers 96 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.38" / 35 mm 272.31 ft / 83.00 m 23.06 ft / 7.03 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 73.00 ft / 22.25 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 5.00" / 127 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 27,093 ihp / 20,211 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 6,600nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,803 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
683 - 888
Cost:
£1.295 million / $5.179 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,124 tons, 7.4 %
- Guns: 1,124 tons, 7.4 %
Armour: 4,280 tons, 28.2 %
- Belts: 1,925 tons, 12.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 320 tons, 2.1 %
- Armament: 757 tons, 5.0 %
- Armour Deck: 1,146 tons, 7.6 %
- Conning Tower: 132 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 2,839 tons, 18.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,689 tons, 30.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,169 tons, 14.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 69 tons, 0.5 %
- On freeboard deck: 69 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
19,316 lbs / 8,762 Kg = 29.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 3.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 13.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.65
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.483 / 0.493
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.60 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.98 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Forward deck: 35.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Aft deck: 31.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Quarter deck: 19.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 17.45 ft / 5.32 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131.5 %
Waterplane Area: 27,727 Square feet or 2,576 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 132 lbs/sq ft or 643 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.67
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
69 tons Misc Weight on "Stuff" (aka if I actualy build it I will figure out where it goes)
Quote6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 85 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 85 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
3 x
Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
;)
Doph LOL, easy enough fix but nice catch Jef. :P
Fixed the error jef caught, deleated the TB (Doph I wouldnt have that tech yet), and distributed the Misc Weight.
St. Michael, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate (1st Class) laid down 1905
Displacement:
13,000 t light; 13,612 t standard; 15,169 t normal; 16,415 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(528.00 ft / 528.00 ft) x 80.00 ft x (26.00 / 27.57 ft)
(160.93 m / 160.93 m) x 24.38 m x (7.92 / 8.40 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 85 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 5,436 lbs / 2,466 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 326.00 ft / 99.36 m 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 202.00 ft / 61.57 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 5.00" / 127 mm 304.00 ft / 92.66 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 5.00" / 127 mm - -
3rd: 1.50" / 38 mm - -
4th: 1.50" / 38 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 27,093 ihp / 20,211 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 6,600nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,803 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
683 - 888
Cost:
£1.295 million / $5.179 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 949 tons, 6.3 %
- Guns: 949 tons, 6.3 %
Armour: 4,359 tons, 28.7 %
- Belts: 2,340 tons, 15.4 %
- Armament: 741 tons, 4.9 %
- Armour Deck: 1,146 tons, 7.6 %
- Conning Tower: 132 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 2,839 tons, 18.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,781 tons, 31.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,169 tons, 14.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 73 tons, 0.5 %
- Hull below water: 16 tons
- Hull above water: 20 tons
- On freeboard deck: 37 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
19,271 lbs / 8,741 Kg = 29.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 13.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.34
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.62
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.483 / 0.493
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.60 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.98 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Forward deck: 35.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Aft deck: 31.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Quarter deck: 19.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131.5 %
Waterplane Area: 27,727 Square feet or 2,576 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 636 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.64
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
73 tons Misc. weight total
Hull below water: 16 tons
4 tons sides: 18" torpedo tubes (one at either end of Citidel per side)
12 tons: 3 reloads per tube
Hull above water: 20 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
10 tons: Reserve
On Main deck: 37 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
27 tons: Reserve
Since all my ships will be esentialy repeats untill I make a few (ok ok several) technological breakthroughs (or manage to steal/aquire the techs anyway), I thought I would go ahead and take a look at what my "next generation" Armoured Frigate would look like (previous post was my first atempt at this). I think this incarnation is far more likley to get built than the previous one, and it is likley to be my last "pre-dreadnaught" style class, as always opinions are welcome (Heck ENCOURAGED). First ship of the class would be named Nike, combined the 3 sisters would be known as the Spirit Class (I esentialy plan to steal the spirit of Victory from 3 Mythologies for their names)
Note: I have broken down the ihp/shp, as well as listed Range at full power on the VTEs and range at fleet speed in the Machinery section of the report.
Nike, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate (1st Class) laid down 1903 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
12,000 t light; 12,606 t standard; 14,280 t normal; 15,620 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(484.00 ft / 484.00 ft) x 69.10 ft x (27.00 / 29.00 ft)
(147.52 m / 147.52 m) x 21.06 m x (8.23 / 8.84 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1903 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1903 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1903 Model
8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1903 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,436 lbs / 2,466 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 303.00 ft / 92.35 m 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 181.00 ft / 55.17 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 303.00 ft / 92.35 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Main Belt covers 96 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 5.00" / 127 mm - -
3rd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
4th: 1.50" / 38 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 6.00" / 152 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 28,000 ihp / 20,888 Kw = 22.15 kts
2 9,000 ihp VTEs inboard 2 shafts, 18,000 ihp. 2 5,000 shp turbines outboard 2 shafts, 10,000 shp.
Range 2,139nm at 19.74 kts
Range 11,120nm at fleet speed of 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,014 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
653 - 849
Cost:
£1.273 million / $5.092 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 973 tons, 6.8 %
- Guns: 973 tons, 6.8 %
Armour: 4,095 tons, 28.7 %
- Belts: 2,379 tons, 16.7 %
- Armament: 721 tons, 5.1 %
- Armour Deck: 792 tons, 5.5 %
- Conning Towers: 203 tons, 1.4 %
Machinery: 2,934 tons, 20.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,906 tons, 27.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,280 tons, 16.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 93 tons, 0.7 %
- Hull below water: 16 tons
- Hull above water: 20 tons
- On freeboard deck: 57 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,392 lbs / 6,528 Kg = 21.6 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 14.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.33
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.553 / 0.564
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 109.3 %
Waterplane Area: 23,417 Square feet or 2,176 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 122 lbs/sq ft or 598 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.72
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
93 tons Misc. weight total
Hull below water: 16 tons
4 tons sides: 18" torpedo tubes (one at either end of the Citidel per side)
12 tons: 3 reloads per tube
Hull above water: 20 tons
10 tons: Flag Facilities
10 tons: Reserve
On Main deck: 57 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
47 tons: Reserve
Well here it is finaly, unless someone spots some glaring error my 4,000 ton Protected Cruiser. To be considerd Final draft unless as previously stated someone spots a problem.
City Class Cruiser (Generation 2), Unified Netherlands Protected Cruiser laid down 1900
Displacement:
4,000 t light; 4,167 t standard; 4,865 t normal; 5,423 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(383.00 ft / 383.00 ft) x 43.75 ft x (22.00 / 23.81 ft)
(116.74 m / 116.74 m) x 13.34 m x (6.71 / 7.26 m)
Armament:
6 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1900 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
6 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 840 lbs / 381 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.00" / 25 mm - 1.00" / 25 mm
- Protected deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 1.50" / 38 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12,137 ihp / 9,055 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,256 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
290 - 378
Cost:
£0.474 million / $1.895 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 208 tons, 4.3 %
- Guns: 208 tons, 4.3 %
Armour: 553 tons, 11.4 %
- Armament: 18 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 525 tons, 10.8 %
- Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 1,876 tons, 38.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,310 tons, 26.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 865 tons, 17.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 53 tons, 1.1 %
- Hull below water: 16 tons
- Hull above water: 10 tons
- On freeboard deck: 27 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,784 lbs / 1,263 Kg = 25.8 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 11.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.81
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.462 / 0.476
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.75 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.57 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Aft deck: 49.00 %, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Quarter deck: 16.00 %, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Average freeboard: 14.45 ft / 4.40 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 139.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 96.7 %
Waterplane Area: 10,794 Square feet or 1,003 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 73 lbs/sq ft or 357 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.13
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
53 tons Misc. weight total
Hull below water:16 tons
2 tons Bow: 2 18" torpedo tubes
2 tons Stern: 2 18" torpedo tubes
12 tons: 3 reloads per tube
Hull above water: 10 tons
10 tons: Reserve
On Main deck: 27 tons
27 tons: Reserve
I like Jef am planing to add some more or less non combat ships to my fleet (what it's a big world and I have to cover most of it), this is my first atempt at a Tender. basicly intended to travel with the destroyers etc. on forign stations. Not sure I got it right but *shrugs* if I didnt im sure someone will tell me.
Would this work, Unified Netherlands Tender/Coalier/Oiler laid down 1901 (Engine 1900)
Displacement:
9,500 t light; 9,813 t standard; 14,808 t normal; 18,804 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(545.00 ft / 545.00 ft) x 65.00 ft x (27.00 / 32.70 ft)
(166.12 m / 166.12 m) x 19.81 m x (8.23 / 9.97 m)
Armament:
2 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 200 lbs / 91 kg
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
No drive to shaft, 3 shafts, 18,562 ihp / 13,847 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 30,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 8,991 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
670 - 872
Cost:
£0.745 million / $2.979 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 32 tons, 0.2 %
- Guns: 32 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 2,872 tons, 19.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,596 tons, 24.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,308 tons, 35.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 3,000 tons, 20.3 %
- Hull below water: 500 tons
- Hull above water: 500 tons
- On freeboard deck: 2,000 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
20,671 lbs / 9,376 Kg = 191.4 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 13.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 93 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.85
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.542 / 0.568
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.38 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.35 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 38 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Forward deck: 35.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Average freeboard: 18.40 ft / 5.61 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.6 %
Waterplane Area: 24,535 Square feet or 2,279 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 167 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 91 lbs/sq ft or 445 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.02
- Longitudinal: 1.44
- Overall: 1.05
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
3000 tons misc weight on "tender Crap"
Ok, just so you know this is esentialy the previous Nike class all I did was mess around with the freeboard and move the 6" guns up to deck level (instead of beong below the freeboard), they should fit and over all I think I improved it rather alot. This is the version I will be laying down as early as possible, as always opinions welcomed (heck even beged for).
Nike, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate (1st Class) laid down 1903 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
12,000 t light; 12,606 t standard; 14,280 t normal; 15,620 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(488.00 ft / 484.00 ft) x 69.10 ft x (27.00 / 29.00 ft)
(148.74 m / 147.52 m) x 21.06 m x (8.23 / 8.84 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1903 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1903 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1903 Model
8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1903 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,436 lbs / 2,466 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 303.00 ft / 92.35 m 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 181.00 ft / 55.17 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 303.00 ft / 92.35 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Main Belt covers 96 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 5.00" / 127 mm - -
3rd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
4th: 1.50" / 38 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 5.00" / 127 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 28,000 ihp / 20,888 Kw = 22.15 kts
Range 2,139nm at 19.74 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,014 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
653 - 849
Cost:
£1.273 million / $5.092 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 973 tons, 6.8 %
- Guns: 973 tons, 6.8 %
Armour: 4,073 tons, 28.5 %
- Belts: 2,379 tons, 16.7 %
- Armament: 712 tons, 5.0 %
- Armour Deck: 792 tons, 5.5 %
- Conning Towers: 190 tons, 1.3 %
Machinery: 2,934 tons, 20.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,916 tons, 27.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,280 tons, 16.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 105 tons, 0.7 %
- Hull below water: 16 tons
- Hull above water: 20 tons
- On freeboard deck: 69 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
13,947 lbs / 6,326 Kg = 21.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 4.0 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 14.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.34
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.553 / 0.564
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9.78 degrees
Stern overhang: -6.00 ft / -1.83 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 23.20 ft / 7.07 m, 18.80 ft / 5.73 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.80 ft / 5.73 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 16.18 ft / 4.93 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 103.2 %
Waterplane Area: 23,417 Square feet or 2,176 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 122 lbs/sq ft or 598 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.73
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
105 tons Misc. weight total
Hull below water: 16 tons
4 tons sides: 18" torpedo tubes (one at either end of the Citidel per side)
12 tons: 3 reloads per tube
Hull above water: 20 tons
10 tons: Flag Facilities
10 tons: Reserve
On Main deck: 57 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
59 tons: Reserve
I see no obvious issues except that I'm not clear on the 10% oil thing at this point.
IDK the rules dont say we cant, the oil fire tech specificly says allows bunkers with larger than 10% percent oil, so by that we are golden to use 10% oil at any point.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on October 17, 2014, 02:41:19 PM
I see no obvious issues except that I'm not clear on the 10% oil thing at this point.
A late reply but... IIRC the oil fire tech is to allow completely oil based bunkerages. Prior to that you can have up to 10% of the bunker as oil, that is to cover the ships using oil-sprayed coal.
1902/1903 Laydown "next generation" Armoured Frigate. Given my tech limitations I realised that I wont be able to do mixed propulsion when I wanted to... so I reworked my idea to fit with techs I could actualy have. Not as fast as the brit ACs (or anyone elses ACs honestly) but capable of taking more of a pounding than any of them this ship would use KC and a newly developed (at the time) 11/45 main gun. I also included a massive ondeck reserve for use in future developments.
Admirial Class Mk2-2, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate (1st Class) laid down 1902 (Engine 1900)
Displacement:
12,000 t light; 12,604 t standard; 14,224 t normal; 15,520 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(468.00 ft / 464.00 ft) x 66.00 ft x (27.00 / 29.02 ft)
(142.65 m / 141.43 m) x 20.12 m x (8.23 / 8.85 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1902 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck aft
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1902 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 40.00lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1902 Model
8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 40.00lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,436 lbs / 2,466 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 301.60 ft / 91.93 m 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 162.38 ft / 49.49 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 301.60 ft / 91.93 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
3rd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
4th: 1.25" / 32 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 11.00" / 279 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 19,347 ihp / 14,433 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,915 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
650 - 846
Cost:
£1.281 million / $5.125 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 949 tons, 6.7 %
- Guns: 949 tons, 6.7 %
Armour: 3,982 tons, 28.0 %
- Belts: 2,336 tons, 16.4 %
- Armament: 749 tons, 5.3 %
- Armour Deck: 759 tons, 5.3 %
- Conning Tower: 139 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 2,993 tons, 21.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,704 tons, 26.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,224 tons, 15.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 372 tons, 2.6 %
- Hull below water: 16 tons
- Hull above water: 20 tons
- On freeboard deck: 336 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
13,623 lbs / 6,179 Kg = 20.5 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.55
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.602 / 0.611
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.03 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.54 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9.78 degrees
Stern overhang: -6.00 ft / -1.83 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 23.20 ft / 7.07 m, 18.80 ft / 5.73 m
- Forward deck: 35.00 %, 18.80 ft / 5.73 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 16.30 ft / 4.97 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.6 %
Waterplane Area: 22,438 Square feet or 2,085 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 120 lbs/sq ft or 584 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.82
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
372 tons Misc. weight total
Hull below water: 16 tons
4 tons sides:18" torpedo tubes (one at either end of the Citidel per side)
12 tons: 3 reloads per tube
Hull above water: 20 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
10 tons: Reserve
On Main deck: 35 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
326 tons: reserve
Since KK brought it up, I decided to go ahead and post my secondary monster idea, as the name indicates I didnt build it (or even bring it up previously) because I figured it was in all likleyhood illegal (blatently so I think). However it would have had a truely impresive battery of 8" guns, and for future use droping a pair of tripple 8" inplace of the 11" twins would have been atleast hypotheticly possible.
Proly Ilegal, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate (1st Class) laid down 1902 (Engine 1900)
Displacement:
13,200 t light; 13,933 t standard; 15,657 t normal; 17,036 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(488.00 ft / 484.00 ft) x 69.00 ft x (27.00 / 28.96 ft)
(148.74 m / 147.52 m) x 21.03 m x (8.23 / 8.83 m)
Armament:
4 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1902 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
10 - 8.00" / 203 mm 45.0 cal guns - 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1902 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1902 Model
8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6,604 lbs / 2,995 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 310.00 ft / 94.49 m 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 154.00 ft / 46.94 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
20.00 ft / 6.10 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 310.00 ft / 94.49 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
3rd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
4th: 1.25" / 32 mm - -
5th: 1.25" / 32 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 11.00" / 279 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 20,320 ihp / 15,159 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,104 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
699 - 909
Cost:
£1.461 million / $5.845 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,289 tons, 8.2 %
- Guns: 1,289 tons, 8.2 %
Armour: 4,394 tons, 28.1 %
- Belts: 2,393 tons, 15.3 %
- Armament: 1,021 tons, 6.5 %
- Armour Deck: 832 tons, 5.3 %
- Conning Tower: 148 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 3,144 tons, 20.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,301 tons, 27.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,457 tons, 15.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 72 tons, 0.5 %
- Hull below water: 16 tons
- Hull above water: 20 tons
- On freeboard deck: 36 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,678 lbs / 6,658 Kg = 22.1 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 4.0 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.75
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.50
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.608 / 0.616
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.01 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9.78 degrees
Stern overhang: -6.00 ft / -1.83 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 23.20 ft / 7.07 m, 18.80 ft / 5.73 m
- Forward deck: 35.00 %, 18.80 ft / 5.73 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 16.30 ft / 4.97 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102.5 %
Waterplane Area: 24,602 Square feet or 2,286 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 133 lbs/sq ft or 650 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.71
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Well since everyone is playing around with new ACs I decided to go ahead and post my minor reworking of the Mk2 Admiral class... not sure I will build it basicly the only changes over the original version were to give it an atlantic bow and add one more 6" per side.
Still toying around with Armoured Frigates, since I wont be laying down a new one till 1904. Opinions definetly welcome, it has grown to 13K tons and honestly I am not sure at this point if the increase in tonage is worth it.
Zegevierend, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1903 (Engine 1900)
Displacement:
13,000 t light; 13,657 t standard; 15,374 t normal; 16,747 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(505.00 ft / 505.00 ft) x 73.00 ft x (28.00 / 29.92 ft)
(153.92 m / 153.92 m) x 22.25 m x (8.53 / 9.12 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1903 Model
3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
10 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1903 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1903 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1903 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,796 lbs / 2,629 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 323.00 ft / 98.45 m 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 182.00 ft / 55.47 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 323.00 ft / 98.45 m 6.00 ft / 1.83 m
Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
3rd: 3.00" / 76 mm - -
4th: 1.25" / 32 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 19,417 ihp / 14,485 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,090 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
689 - 897
Cost:
£1.334 million / $5.337 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,165 tons, 7.6 %
- Guns: 1,165 tons, 7.6 %
Armour: 4,344 tons, 28.3 %
- Belts: 2,451 tons, 15.9 %
- Armament: 917 tons, 6.0 %
- Armour Deck: 843 tons, 5.5 %
- Conning Tower: 133 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 3,004 tons, 19.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,376 tons, 28.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,374 tons, 15.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 110 tons, 0.7 %
- On freeboard deck: 110 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17,642 lbs / 8,002 Kg = 26.5 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 13.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.87
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.521 / 0.531
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.92 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 31.00 ft / 9.45 m, 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forward deck: 15.70 %, 28.00 ft / 8.53 m, 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Aft deck: 48.30 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Quarter deck: 16.00 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 19.81 ft / 6.04 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123.4 %
Waterplane Area: 25,048 Square feet or 2,327 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 127 lbs/sq ft or 619 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.07
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
QuoteStill toying around with Armoured Frigates, since I wont be laying down a new one till 1904. Opinions definetly welcome, it has grown to 13K tons and honestly I am not sure at this point if the increase in tonage is worth it.
You're toying too much with them, except for where it matters...
Quote6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1903 Model
3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
:)
Quote from: Walter on March 07, 2015, 05:37:32 AM
QuoteStill toying around with Armoured Frigates, since I wont be laying down a new one till 1904. Opinions definetly welcome, it has grown to 13K tons and honestly I am not sure at this point if the increase in tonage is worth it.
You're toying too much with them, except for where it matters...
Quote6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1903 Model
3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
:)
Sensiblechuckle.gif
:-[ Cant belive I did that again (and I was wondering where all my reserve went). Ok fixed it, still not sure it is worth the increase in tonage over the previous generation... all I am realy gaining is 11/45s over 11/40s and a half inch of deck armour, while I am giving up an inch of belt armour. this makes it roughly equivilent to the OTL KE VIII, Braunschweig, and Deutschland classes in belt armour, however the 2.5 inch deck only puts it on par with the KE VIII while still being inferior to the other 2 (4.7 and 3.9 respectivly). Now that I once again fixed it... Opinions comments concerns
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1904 (Engine 1900)
Displacement:
13,000 t light; 13,657 t standard; 15,374 t normal; 16,747 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(505.00 ft / 505.00 ft) x 73.00 ft x (28.00 / 29.92 ft)
(153.92 m / 153.92 m) x 22.25 m x (8.53 / 9.12 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
10 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 40.00lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 40.00lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,796 lbs / 2,629 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 323.00 ft / 98.45 m 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 182.00 ft / 55.47 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 323.00 ft / 98.45 m 6.00 ft / 1.83 m
Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
3rd: 3.00" / 76 mm - -
4th: 1.25" / 32 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 19,417 ihp / 14,485 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,090 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
689 - 897
Cost:
£1.334 million / $5.337 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 996 tons, 6.5 %
- Guns: 996 tons, 6.5 %
Armour: 4,283 tons, 27.9 %
- Belts: 2,264 tons, 14.7 %
- Armament: 854 tons, 5.6 %
- Armour Deck: 1,031 tons, 6.7 %
- Conning Tower: 133 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 3,004 tons, 19.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,504 tons, 29.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,374 tons, 15.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 214 tons, 1.4 %
- On freeboard deck: 214 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17,731 lbs / 8,043 Kg = 26.6 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.33
Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 13.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.88
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.521 / 0.531
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.92 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 31.00 ft / 9.45 m, 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forward deck: 15.70 %, 28.00 ft / 8.53 m, 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Aft deck: 48.30 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Quarter deck: 16.00 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 19.81 ft / 6.04 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123.4 %
Waterplane Area: 25,048 Square feet or 2,327 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 126 lbs/sq ft or 613 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.07
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
214 tons Misc weight for whatever I decide to use.
QuoteCant belive I did that again
It's not the first time, nor will it be the last. But I'm fairly sure that you are not the only one who does it.
Quoteand I was wondering where all my reserve went
Out of the window, of course. :)
While Spring Sharp does not show it, I am fairly sure that the 15 ft freeboard aft means that any of the guns in hull casemates that are aft of the break are actually "Limited use in all but light seas" instead of the reported "Limited use in heavy seas". About 16 feet is the minimum to get the "Limited use in heavy seas" for the hull casemates. It's something I noticed when I was playing with a cruiser design for China. If I put all the guns aft of the break I would get "Limited use in all but light seas" but when I used the distributed option, it gave me "Limited use in heavy seas" instead, even though I did not change the freeboard.
... and just to add some more useless freeboard information...
For the normal hull casemates, the minimum freeboard to get "Limited use in all but light seas" is 12 feet.
For the lower hull casemates, the minimum freeboard to get "Limited use in all but light seas" is 19 feet and the minimum freeboard to get "Limited use in heavy seas" is 23 feet.
Heh I have them in hull casemates because it apears to be a period thing... I could proly fit the 6" at deck level, but uhm it would look stupid.
Hull casemates would look better, but like I said, 15 feet would not be enough for the "Limited use in heavy seas" rating of the hull casemates. Below is your sim
(or at least I tried. I have no idea why SS is stubbornly refusing to use the 40 lbs I entered and instead uses 39.99lbs. Also after closing SS, I noticed that I did not alter the trim) with all the hull casemates positioned aft of the break. You will see that it now has the "Limited use in all but light seas" rating...
QuoteEnter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1904 (Engine 1900)
Displacement:
13,000 t light; 13,657 t standard; 15,374 t normal; 16,748 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(505.00 ft / 505.00 ft) x 73.00 ft x (28.00 / 29.92 ft)
(153.92 m / 153.92 m) x 22.25 m x (8.53 / 9.12 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
10 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
10 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,796 lbs / 2,629 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 323.00 ft / 98.45 m 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 182.00 ft / 55.47 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 323.00 ft / 98.45 m 6.00 ft / 1.83 m
Main Belt covers 98% of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
3rd: 3.00" / 76 mm - -
4th: 1.25" / 32 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 19,417 ihp / 14,485 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,090 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
689 - 897
Cost:
£1.334 million / $5.338 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 996 tons, 6.5%
- Guns: 996 tons, 6.5%
Armour: 4,277 tons, 27.8%
- Belts: 2,258 tons, 14.7%
- Armament: 854 tons, 5.6%
- Armour Deck: 1,031 tons, 6.7%
- Conning Tower: 133 tons, 0.9%
Machinery: 3,004 tons, 19.5%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,509 tons, 29.3%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,374 tons, 15.4%
Miscellaneous weights: 214 tons, 1.4%
- On freeboard deck: 214 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17,299 lbs / 7,847 Kg = 26.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 94 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.88
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.521 / 0.531
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.92 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00%, 31.00 ft / 9.45 m, 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forward deck: 15.70%, 28.00 ft / 8.53 m, 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Aft deck: 48.30%, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Quarter deck: 16.00%, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 19.81 ft / 6.04 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.1%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123.4%
Waterplane Area: 25,048 Square feet or 2,327 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 126 lbs/sq ft or 614 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.07
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
A few other things I was wondering about the design:
- You have two entries for the 4" gun. One of 12 guns and one of 8 guns. The 12 gun one has 8 casemate mounts and 4 deck mounts, but to me it would make more sense if those 4 deck mounts would be listed under the with the other 8 deck guns so they would all be the same when it comes to the shield that protects them.
- Speaking of 'period thing', I would think that the period freeboard would be a lot flatter forward than what you have now. A max rise of maybe 1-2 feet.
- You sim the vessel with a ram bow, but the length overall suggests that it has no ram at all. While it has no effect on the sim, I think it looks a bit sloppy that way. :)
the ram bow is already gone (actualy the whole bow has changed), it was part of the drawing I was working from to get general hull shape. I think I see what you are trying to do with the sim, and I may play around with it some tomorow, as to the rize... well that is what the brit AC I was working from had... Honestly alot of things have changed from that sim, but I am not sure I want to post the revised one and give other people evil ideas ;)
Quotethe ram bow is already gone (actualy the whole bow has changed), it was part of the drawing I was working from to get general hull shape.
What?!? You're telling me you removed one of the cooler features of your ships?!?! ;D
QuoteI think I see what you are trying to do with the sim, and I may play around with it some tomorow, as to the rize... well that is what the brit AC I was working from had
Guess I have missed those British
road accidents cruisers. Man! They look pretty terrible to me. ;D
Still, looking at them, I get the impression that some of the hull casemates would have the "Limited use in all but light seas" ratings (and the wiki entry for HMS Monmouth confirms that, indicating that the six lower 6" guns were "only usable in calm weather")
... so if you are looking at creating something like those British ACs, I guess you would need to keep those hull casemates below 16 feet in order to be more accurate. :)
QuoteHonestly alot of things have changed from that sim, but I am not sure I want to post the revised one and give other people evil ideas
Well, if you build them, you will need to post them eventually... and considering how my construction plans are, any ship I will build will be laid down after yours (if you stick to 1904) so I can still come up with evil ideas once you post your design...
... but looking at my own sims that seems highly unlikely. ;D
After much Discusion and substantial reworking it gives me great pride to present AF-1904 MK 28 (yes I made that many sims, but this is the final version baring any huge errors). As always opinions are welcomed.
Nike, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate (First Class) laid down 1904 (Engine 1900)
Displacement:
13,000 t light; 13,657 t standard; 15,374 t normal; 16,747 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(505.00 ft / 505.00 ft) x 73.00 ft x (28.00 / 29.92 ft)
(153.92 m / 153.92 m) x 22.25 m x (8.53 / 9.12 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
10 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 40.00lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 40.00lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,796 lbs / 2,629 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 343.00 ft / 104.55 m 11.50 ft / 3.51 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 162.00 ft / 49.38 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 223.00 ft / 67.97 m 8.50 ft / 2.59 m
Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
3rd: 3.00" / 76 mm - -
4th: 1.25" / 32 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 19,417 ihp / 14,485 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,090 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
689 - 897
Cost:
£1.334 million / $5.337 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 996 tons, 6.5 %
- Guns: 996 tons, 6.5 %
Armour: 4,262 tons, 27.7 %
- Belts: 2,080 tons, 13.5 %
- Armament: 804 tons, 5.2 %
- Armour Deck: 1,244 tons, 8.1 %
- Conning Tower: 133 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 3,004 tons, 19.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,573 tons, 29.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,374 tons, 15.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 165 tons, 1.1 %
- Hull below water: 16 tons
- Hull above water: 20 tons
- On freeboard deck: 129 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17,962 lbs / 8,148 Kg = 27.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.33
Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 13.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.89
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.521 / 0.531
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.92 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 16.00 %, 31.00 ft / 9.45 m, 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forward deck: 15.70 %, 28.00 ft / 8.53 m, 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Aft deck: 52.30 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Quarter deck: 16.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Average freeboard: 19.92 ft / 6.07 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127.6 %
Waterplane Area: 25,049 Square feet or 2,327 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 127 lbs/sq ft or 621 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.12
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
165 tons Misc weight total
Hull Below Water: 16 tons
4 tons sides: 18" torpedo tubes (one at either end of the Citidel per side)
12 tons: 3 reloads per tube
Hull above water: 20 tons
10 tons: Flag Facilities
10 tons: Reserve
On Main deck: 129 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
119 tons: Reserve
My only reservation is that by 1904 somebody (maybe the US, maybe someone else) might have a 21knt BB or 23+knt AC under construction. With the limited industrial capacity, I might see how much more you have to tweek to get 21knts. The additional investment per unit might keep them viable longer.
Funny that you should ask, I have a 21 knot version that wouldnt look a bloody bit diferent than the curent version. I would have to accept a 2 inch deck and 7" main belt however upper belt would improve to 5"
This being the 21 knot version, I also have a 23 knot version but that would entail importing turbines from someone as I lack the engine tech to build it.
Nike, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate (First Class) laid down 1904 (Engine 1900)
Displacement:
13,000 t light; 13,657 t standard; 15,374 t normal; 16,747 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(505.00 ft / 505.00 ft) x 73.00 ft x (28.00 / 29.92 ft)
(153.92 m / 153.92 m) x 22.25 m x (8.53 / 9.12 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
10 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,796 lbs / 2,629 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 343.00 ft / 104.55 m 11.50 ft / 3.51 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 162.00 ft / 49.38 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 5.00" / 127 mm 223.00 ft / 67.97 m 8.50 ft / 2.59 m
Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
3rd: 3.00" / 76 mm - -
4th: 1.25" / 32 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 23,333 ihp / 17,406 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,090 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
689 - 897
Cost:
£1.419 million / $5.677 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 996 tons, 6.5 %
- Guns: 996 tons, 6.5 %
Armour: 3,627 tons, 23.6 %
- Belts: 1,834 tons, 11.9 %
- Armament: 804 tons, 5.2 %
- Armour Deck: 856 tons, 5.6 %
- Conning Tower: 133 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 3,610 tons, 23.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,602 tons, 29.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,374 tons, 15.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 165 tons, 1.1 %
- Hull below water: 16 tons
- Hull above water: 20 tons
- On freeboard deck: 129 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15,320 lbs / 6,949 Kg = 23.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 13.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.88
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.521 / 0.531
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.92 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 16.00 %, 31.00 ft / 9.45 m, 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forward deck: 15.70 %, 28.00 ft / 8.53 m, 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Aft deck: 52.30 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Quarter deck: 16.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Average freeboard: 19.92 ft / 6.07 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127.6 %
Waterplane Area: 25,047 Square feet or 2,327 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 625 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.09
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
165 tons Misc weight total
Hull Below Water: 16 tons
4 tons sides: 18" torpedo tubes (one at either end of the Citidel per side)
12 tons: 3 reloads per tube
Hull above water: 20 tons
10 tons: Flag Facilities
10 tons: Reserve
On Main deck: 129 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
119 tons: Reserve
And a Combination of the 2, 21 knots with BB armour. Grew 1K tons to get that not bad IMHO.
Nike, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate (First Class) laid down 1904 (Engine 1900)
Displacement:
14,000 t light; 14,679 t standard; 16,465 t normal; 17,893 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(505.00 ft / 505.00 ft) x 73.00 ft x (28.00 / 29.93 ft)
(153.92 m / 153.92 m) x 22.25 m x (8.53 / 9.12 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
10 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,796 lbs / 2,629 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 343.00 ft / 104.55 m 11.50 ft / 3.51 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 162.00 ft / 49.38 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 223.00 ft / 67.97 m 8.50 ft / 2.59 m
Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
3rd: 3.00" / 76 mm - -
4th: 1.25" / 32 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 24,605 ihp / 18,356 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,214 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
726 - 944
Cost:
£1.482 million / $5.927 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 996 tons, 6.0 %
- Guns: 996 tons, 6.0 %
Armour: 4,316 tons, 26.2 %
- Belts: 2,084 tons, 12.7 %
- Armament: 804 tons, 4.9 %
- Armour Deck: 1,287 tons, 7.8 %
- Conning Tower: 139 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 3,807 tons, 23.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,642 tons, 28.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,465 tons, 15.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 240 tons, 1.5 %
- Hull below water: 16 tons
- Hull above water: 20 tons
- On freeboard deck: 204 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17,041 lbs / 7,730 Kg = 25.6 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 13.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.85
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.558 / 0.568
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.92 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 16.00 %, 31.00 ft / 9.45 m, 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forward deck: 15.70 %, 28.00 ft / 8.53 m, 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Aft deck: 52.30 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Quarter deck: 16.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Average freeboard: 19.92 ft / 6.07 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125.3 %
Waterplane Area: 25,928 Square feet or 2,409 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 126 lbs/sq ft or 614 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.00
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
240 tons Misc weight total
Hull Below Water: 16 tons
4 tons sides: 18" torpedo tubes (one at either end of the Citidel per side)
12 tons: 3 reloads per tube
Hull above water: 20 tons
10 tons: Flag Facilities
10 tons: Reserve
On Main deck: 129 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
194 tons: Reserve
And here is the reason I dont know if I will sadly ever get to build my Nike class (even if it looks amazing in the drawing). Not a final version by any means but it lets yall see where I am headed long term.
Mixed Propulsion Test, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1905
Displacement:
14,000 t light; 14,686 t standard; 16,312 t normal; 17,613 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(528.00 ft / 528.00 ft) x 80.00 ft x (27.00 / 28.62 ft)
(160.93 m / 160.93 m) x 24.38 m x (8.23 / 8.72 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 671.17lbs / 304.44kg shells, 85 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
1 raised mount
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6,649 lbs / 3,016 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 360.00 ft / 109.73 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 168.00 ft / 51.21 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 259.19 ft / 79.00 m 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.09" / 180 mm 3.74" / 95 mm 7.09" / 180 mm
3rd: 5.51" / 140 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.00" / 229 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 33,779 ihp / 25,199 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 6,600nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,927 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
721 - 938
Cost:
£1.553 million / $6.213 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,199 tons, 7.3 %
- Guns: 1,199 tons, 7.3 %
Armour: 3,854 tons, 23.6 %
- Belts: 1,865 tons, 11.4 %
- Armament: 914 tons, 5.6 %
- Armour Deck: 951 tons, 5.8 %
- Conning Tower: 125 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 3,539 tons, 21.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,298 tons, 32.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,312 tons, 14.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 110 tons, 0.7 %
- Hull below water: 20 tons
- Hull above water: 20 tons
- On freeboard deck: 70 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
16,425 lbs / 7,450 Kg = 24.7 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.44
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.501 / 0.510
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.60 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.98 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -4.00 ft / -1.22 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 22.28 ft / 6.79 m, 20.68 ft / 6.30 m
- Forward deck: 35.00 %, 20.68 ft / 6.30 m, 16.08 ft / 4.90 m
- Aft deck: 31.00 %, 16.08 ft / 4.90 m, 16.08 ft / 4.90 m
- Quarter deck: 19.00 %, 16.08 ft / 4.90 m, 16.08 ft / 4.90 m
- Average freeboard: 17.67 ft / 5.39 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128.7 %
Waterplane Area: 28,159 Square feet or 2,616 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 141 lbs/sq ft or 690 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.74
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
I've been using a shorter, blockier hull for otherwise generally similar design concepts. Though all-turbine.
and now for something that has a high likelihood of being built DD-1903 (or possibly 1904)
DD-03, Netherlands Destroyer laid down 1903 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
500 t light; 517 t standard; 576 t normal; 623 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(256.83 ft / 252.00 ft) x 22.50 ft x (10.00 / 10.48 ft)
(78.28 m / 76.81 m) x 6.86 m x (3.05 / 3.20 m)
Armament:
5 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 14.00lbs / 6.35kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1903 Model
3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
1 raised mount
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
Weight of broadside 70 lbs / 32 kg
Main Torpedoes
3 - 18.0" / 457 mm, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m torpedoes - 0.502 t each, 1.505 t total
In 3 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.20" / 5 mm - -
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 11,164 shp / 8,328 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 2,020nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 106 tons (90% coal)
Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery
Complement:
58 - 76
Cost:
£0.067 million / $0.267 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 15 tons, 2.6 %
- Guns: 13 tons, 2.3 %
- Weapons: 2 tons, 0.3 %
Armour: 2 tons, 0.4 %
- Armament: 2 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 323 tons, 56.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 148 tons, 25.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 76 tons, 13.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 11 tons, 1.9 %
- On freeboard deck: 11 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
129 lbs / 59 Kg = 9.6 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 0.8 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 10.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 87 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.22
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.356 / 0.367
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.20 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 71
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 16.80 degrees
Stern overhang: -4.00 ft / -1.22 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 14.30 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 15.50 ft / 4.72 m
- Forward deck: 10.00 %, 15.50 ft / 4.72 m, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Aft deck: 62.20 %, 8.00 ft / 2.44 m, 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Quarter deck: 13.50 %, 8.00 ft / 2.44 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Average freeboard: 9.89 ft / 3.02 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 187.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.8 %
Waterplane Area: 3,395 Square feet or 315 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 30 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 22 lbs/sq ft or 105 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.92
- Overall: 0.57
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
11 tons misc weight
6 tons 3 torpedos, and 3 reloads
5 tons "Stuff"
Trials Speed 30.5 Knots (+2.5 knots)
Sorry Tan, but
"Block-coefficients
0.38 is the absolute minimum. Coefficients should be reflective of the size and speed of the vessel."
Probably won't change terribly much.
Then there's squeezing 3 shafts into 6.86m with a very low block coefficient. I'd be surprised if you can find a historical 1890-1920 example of a ship class with 3+ shafts on that beam, much less that tapered so much. I doubt there's even a one-off, much less follow on vessels.
Last - Snip may yell at you.
3 - 18.0" / 457 mm, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m torpedoes - 0.502 t each, 1.505 t total
In 3 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
We've been repeatedly told not to use the torpedo setting in the tab, but only miscellaneous weight.
On the bright side, that will free up some weight for you.
" Adequate accommodation and workspace room"
Hey I was not expecting that- good.
You'll want your 3" to be QF. I like more than 150 for that size/ROF gun.
Considering your deck is split 8ft / 15.5ft, the two beam 3" on "aft deck forward" can't actually fire forward. Which seems undesirable.
I suggest either superimpose them or make them Fore Deck Aft.
Personaly I still don't understand why we cant use the torp thing... I LIKE having my torps listed with weaponry. I also add the misc weight, and if I am wasting a couple tons so bloody be it, it makes for a neat report.
the guns are listed where they actually are, since it has like most period destroyers a very short raised foredeck, putting the guns on it would move them up a deck so "aft deck forward" is the most logical placement in my mind over foredeck aft, and as to the BC DAMMIT, how did I screw that up... I started with my startup destroyers and they were legal LOL.
A) Agreed. I like the text. I've toyed with just doing to versions and cutting & pasting the text, but I'm lazy. My preference is to list the tubes, but have the ammo under misc weight.
B) understood.
C) I would bet you started with BC.38, built the ship with a 70m hull to fit slips/docks. Then trimmed for tonnage to 500. Then needed more seakeeping/speed, and so stretched the hull longer....while the tonnage tab was still set....and so the BC varied...
*Not* that I've ever made that sequence occur.
so I reworked it a bit (ok ok more or less scraped it and started over) but it should now be within the rules (BC is actually kinda high for period DDs). Still has 3 shafts, but I figure if the brits could fit 4 on 21 foot beam (Cobra and Velox) I should be able to fit 3 on 22 foot. Note I added the torpedo information manually, the actual accounting is in Misc weight.
DD-03, Netherlands Destroyer laid down 1903 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
500 t light; 520 t standard; 607 t normal; 677 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(264.47 ft / 260.00 ft) x 22.00 ft x (9.10 / 9.79 ft)
(80.61 m / 79.25 m) x 6.71 m x (2.77 / 2.98 m)
Armament:
5 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 14.29lbs / 6.48kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1903 Model
3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
1 raised mount
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
Weight of broadside 71 lbs / 32 kg
3 - 18" Deck mounted torpedo tubes with 1 reload per tube (6 tons total weight accounted in Misc weight)
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.20" / 5 mm - -
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 11,585 shp / 8,642 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 157 tons (90% coal)
Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery
Complement:
60 - 79
Cost:
£0.069 million / $0.277 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 15 tons, 2.5 %
- Guns: 15 tons, 2.5 %
Armour: 2 tons, 0.4 %
- Armament: 2 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 341 tons, 56.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 134 tons, 22.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 107 tons, 17.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 7 tons, 1.2 %
- On freeboard deck: 7 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
127 lbs / 58 Kg = 9.4 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
Metacentric height 0.8 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 10.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.408 / 0.423
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.82 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 16.12 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 74
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 16.80 degrees
Stern overhang: -4.00 ft / -1.22 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 14.30 %, 14.80 ft / 4.51 m, 14.20 ft / 4.33 m
- Forward deck: 10.00 %, 14.20 ft / 4.33 m, 13.70 ft / 4.18 m
- Aft deck: 62.20 %, 7.45 ft / 2.27 m, 7.45 ft / 2.27 m
- Quarter deck: 13.50 %, 7.45 ft / 2.27 m, 8.45 ft / 2.58 m
- Average freeboard: 9.17 ft / 2.79 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 188.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93.5 %
Waterplane Area: 3,538 Square feet or 329 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 31 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 20 lbs/sq ft or 100 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.25
- Overall: 0.54
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
6 tons misc weight
3 torpedos, and 3 reloads
Trials Speed 30.5 Knots (+2.5 knots)
Ok so it isn't finished (I still have .10 composite to play around with I will likely go with more shells for the guns honestly since I cant get any worthwhile armor for that), but I thought I would go ahead and post it up and get opinions. This will be (if I actually build it and I am leaning that way) the first class of Dutch Turbine powered ships. Based loosely on the OTL US Chester Class (VERY LOOSELY basically I just stole the hull), Gun layout is similar to the OTL Omaha Class (but obviously I couldn't do the twin mounts fore and aft) with minor modification for the Chester Hull. They would serve alongside my existing Protected/light cruisers, the lay down year is flexible (I don't have the turbine tech just yet but will soonish) and as always opinions/advice is welcomed.
CLX-1903, Unified Netherlands Light Cruiser laid down 1903 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
3,700 t light; 3,889 t standard; 4,874 t normal; 5,662 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(423.00 ft / 423.00 ft) x 47.10 ft x (16.80 / 18.86 ft)
(128.93 m / 128.93 m) x 14.36 m x (5.12 / 5.75 m)
Armament:
3 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1903 Model
3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
1 raised mount aft - superfiring
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1903 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,100 lbs / 499 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,900 shp / 14,845 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,773 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
291 - 379
Cost:
£0.431 million / $1.726 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 217 tons, 4.4 %
- Guns: 217 tons, 4.4 %
Armour: 48 tons, 1.0 %
- Armament: 23 tons, 0.5 %
- Conning Tower: 25 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 1,642 tons, 33.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,793 tons, 36.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,174 tons, 24.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4,334 lbs / 1,966 Kg = 40.1 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.37
Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 11.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 90 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.79
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.510 / 0.527
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.98 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.57 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 11.50 %, 22.50 ft / 6.86 m, 22.50 ft / 6.86 m
- Forward deck: 13.50 %, 22.50 ft / 6.86 m, 22.50 ft / 6.86 m
- Aft deck: 60.00 %, 15.50 ft / 4.72 m, 15.50 ft / 4.72 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 15.50 ft / 4.72 m, 15.50 ft / 4.72 m
- Average freeboard: 17.25 ft / 5.26 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 123.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 147.2 %
Waterplane Area: 13,397 Square feet or 1,245 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 83 lbs/sq ft or 407 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.02
- Longitudinal: 2.31
- Overall: 1.10
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
No deck protection at all?
The rest of it looks pretty capable.
Yeah that version of it has no deck armour, I have another version that's 100 tons heavier (still under the 20K shp limit) that has a 1" deck, I am just not sure that 1" is worth bothering with... This is the 1" deck version, 50 tons heavier uses most of my spare composite.
CLX-1903, Unified Netherlands Light Cruiser laid down 1903 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
3,750 t light; 3,940 t standard; 4,932 t normal; 5,725 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(423.00 ft / 423.00 ft) x 47.10 ft x (17.20 / 19.28 ft)
(128.93 m / 128.93 m) x 14.36 m x (5.24 / 5.88 m)
Armament:
3 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1903 Model
3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
1 raised mount aft - superfiring
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1903 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,100 lbs / 499 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,990 shp / 14,913 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,785 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
293 - 382
Cost:
£0.434 million / $1.737 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 217 tons, 4.4 %
- Guns: 217 tons, 4.4 %
Armour: 264 tons, 5.3 %
- Armament: 23 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 215 tons, 4.4 %
- Conning Tower: 25 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 1,649 tons, 33.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,620 tons, 32.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,182 tons, 24.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4,534 lbs / 2,056 Kg = 42.0 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.45
Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 11.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 79 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.83
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.504 / 0.522
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.98 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.57 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 11.50 %, 22.50 ft / 6.86 m, 22.50 ft / 6.86 m
- Forward deck: 13.50 %, 22.50 ft / 6.86 m, 22.50 ft / 6.86 m
- Aft deck: 60.00 %, 15.50 ft / 4.72 m, 15.50 ft / 4.72 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 15.50 ft / 4.72 m, 15.50 ft / 4.72 m
- Average freeboard: 17.25 ft / 5.26 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 122.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145.3 %
Waterplane Area: 13,320 Square feet or 1,237 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 76 lbs/sq ft or 370 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.13
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
And just for Kicks a 22 knot "Armoured" Frigate. worked it out following the "final" rule limit proposal on mixed propulsion. The armour is well tbh light, but trade offs must be made and I chose speed and firepower off the triangle. As always opinions welcomed.
AFX-1904, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
11,250 t light; 11,778 t standard; 12,993 t normal; 13,965 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(505.50 ft / 505.50 ft) x 73.50 ft x (27.00 / 28.43 ft)
(154.08 m / 154.08 m) x 22.40 m x (8.23 / 8.67 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
10 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 108.92lbs / 49.41kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 5,085 lbs / 2,307 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 330.00 ft / 100.58 m 10.29 ft / 3.14 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 165.50 ft / 50.44 m 10.29 ft / 3.14 m
10.00 ft / 3.05 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 330.00 ft / 100.58 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.50" / 191 mm 4.50" / 114 mm 7.50" / 191 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
Forecastle: 0.75" / 19 mm Quarter deck: 0.75" / 19 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 25,731 ihp / 19,195 Kw = 22.26 kts
Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,187 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
608 - 791
Cost:
£1.203 million / $4.810 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 895 tons, 6.9 %
- Guns: 895 tons, 6.9 %
Armour: 2,887 tons, 22.2 %
- Belts: 1,395 tons, 10.7 %
- Armament: 759 tons, 5.8 %
- Armour Deck: 614 tons, 4.7 %
- Conning Tower: 119 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 2,723 tons, 21.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,486 tons, 34.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,743 tons, 13.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 260 tons, 2.0 %
- Hull above water: 260 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,399 lbs / 6,531 Kg = 21.6 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 13.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.86
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.453 / 0.463
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.88 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.48 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 30.50 ft / 9.30 m, 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 28.00 ft / 8.53 m, 25.50 ft / 7.77 m
- Aft deck: 55.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Average freeboard: 19.71 ft / 6.01 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 136.3 %
Waterplane Area: 23,763 Square feet or 2,208 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 636 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.26
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
This is another version of the max mixed propulsion Idea, it is incomplete at this point but I thought I would throw it out anyway. It is sort of an oddball semi dread idea, and as far as I know no one built anything like it OTL, best I could tell the rules don't even account for the layout until Dreadnought era, which makes me sadly sort of doubt its legality (Which sucks cause it would be damn cool and a total departure from anything built OTL). As to aforementioned "odd" layout best description I can think of would be Dreadnought sans one midships turret so aqqy with the "Q turrets" being one to port and one to starboard directly a crossed ship from each other (aka you could only fire the "Midships" turrets one on either beam no cross ship capability). However being hypothetically capable of firing 6 guns directly forward or in the majority of arcs (Directly aft would also be a no go). Given how lightly armoured it is I would expect her to have a career filled with issues (blast damage etc from firing the midships turrets directly forward as an example) but dammit its a cool looking ship and would provide me with something "Alternate" to the retreads of OTL ships we are all building.
As said Incomplete. but .14 composite would likely give me enough to add secondaries and misc. weight
AFX-1903, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1903 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
12,835 t light; 13,392 t standard; 14,536 t normal; 15,451 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(519.00 ft / 519.00 ft) x 74.00 ft x (26.00 / 27.24 ft)
(158.19 m / 158.19 m) x 22.56 m x (7.92 / 8.30 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1903 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward
Weight of broadside 5,328 lbs / 2,417 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 363.30 ft / 110.73 m 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 155.68 ft / 47.45 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 363.30 ft / 110.73 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
Forecastle: 0.75" / 19 mm Quarter deck: 0.75" / 19 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 26,600 ihp / 19,843 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 7,265nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,060 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
661 - 860
Cost:
£1.341 million / $5.364 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 976 tons, 6.7 %
- Guns: 976 tons, 6.7 %
Armour: 3,557 tons, 24.5 %
- Belts: 1,916 tons, 13.2 %
- Armament: 808 tons, 5.6 %
- Armour Deck: 667 tons, 4.6 %
- Conning Towers: 167 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 2,787 tons, 19.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,515 tons, 37.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,701 tons, 11.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
16,272 lbs / 7,381 Kg = 24.5 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 14.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.67
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.509 / 0.517
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.01 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.78 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 29.50 ft / 8.99 m, 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 27.00 ft / 8.23 m, 24.50 ft / 7.47 m
- Aft deck: 55.00 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 18.71 ft / 5.70 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128.7 %
Waterplane Area: 25,807 Square feet or 2,398 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 150 lbs/sq ft or 735 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.07
- Longitudinal: 2.10
- Overall: 1.14
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
And for anyone that is even marginally interested here is what the wing turret ship would look like in its final form. Haven't distributed the misc. weight but I got a fairly hefty chunk of it for a period ship, managed to improve the deck armour, and managed to fit enough secondaries/tritaries to make any TB skipper wonder if closing is really such a good idea. I have even roughed in a picture of it to make sure everything fit. I think this layout would be more realistic honestly than my fast AQY ships (which are legal though even I have NO idea where I would actually put the engines). As always opinions are welcomed, even though I think sadly looking at the rules that this type of ship is not possible until the dreadnought era, at which point there is no reason to build it...
So mods what ya say a one off protodread (well 3 off since I would build a class). You can consider this me begging and groveling if it would help, I will even promise to take wing turret ships as my dreadnought type (seriously that's me offering to build non SF dreadnoughts initially hows that for shock factor). :P
AFX-1903, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1903 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
12,775 t light; 13,422 t standard; 14,534 t normal; 15,423 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(523.00 ft / 519.00 ft) x 74.00 ft x (26.00 / 27.21 ft)
(159.41 m / 158.19 m) x 22.56 m x (7.92 / 8.29 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1903 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1903 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
20 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 14.00lbs / 6.35kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1903 Model
18 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 raised mounts
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6,408 lbs / 2,907 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 363.30 ft / 110.73 m 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 155.68 ft / 47.45 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 363.30 ft / 110.73 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 26,599 ihp / 19,843 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 7,044nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,001 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
661 - 860
Cost:
£1.394 million / $5.575 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,176 tons, 8.1 %
- Guns: 1,176 tons, 8.1 %
Armour: 3,824 tons, 26.3 %
- Belts: 1,916 tons, 13.2 %
- Armament: 853 tons, 5.9 %
- Armour Deck: 889 tons, 6.1 %
- Conning Towers: 167 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 2,787 tons, 19.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,702 tons, 32.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,759 tons, 12.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 286 tons, 2.0 %
- Hull above water: 286 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15,315 lbs / 6,947 Kg = 23.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 14.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.70
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.509 / 0.517
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.01 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.78 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -17.85 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 29.50 ft / 8.99 m, 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 27.00 ft / 8.23 m, 24.50 ft / 7.47 m
- Aft deck: 55.00 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 18.71 ft / 5.70 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128.7 %
Waterplane Area: 25,811 Square feet or 2,398 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 133 lbs/sq ft or 650 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.87
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
and I realize proly no one is interested, and it proly wont get mod approval, but what the heck I figure as good as the drawing turned out, I might as well go ahead and post it up. So here it is what the wing turret ship would if built look like.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/Armoured%20Frigate%201903_zpscand6cat.png) (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/Armoured%20Frigate%201903_zpscand6cat.png)
(Click to see full size)
IMO, with 74ft beam, the wing turrets could'nt rotate with the first stack between them.
Really a pleasant drawing, Tan
Jef
Thanks Jef, it all hypothetically fits, at least it would fit better than the Q turret ships (I could do an overhead, but IDK if I am that motivated LOL. My only defense (such as it is) is the fact that Dreadnought with her larger turrets was only 82' wide, and from the various overhead drawings they apparently had room to spare. I could widen her out a bit, but the weight would have to come from somewhere...
Edit for Clarity
the working radius on the turrets (aft over hang since that's all that matters) would be 32' for a total of 64' so I have 10' between them... Proly room for the stack but not much more.
You're going for side by side turrets. Any reason why you do not use a staggered layout like Von Der Tann and other such ships? I would think that that would give you a more breathing space for your wing turrets.
Quote from: Walter on September 24, 2015, 05:06:16 PM
You're going for side by side turrets. Any reason why you do not use a staggered layout like Von Der Tann and other such ships? I would think that that would give you a more breathing space for your wing turrets.
I could, but I figured if I was trying to argue for it before I had dreadnought tech it would be best to build it so there was no way in hell I could cross deck. Interestingly the "next generation" of my AFs would be almost identical to VdT in layout.
Don't you have the four funnels to prevent cross deck fire?
Quote from: Walter on September 24, 2015, 06:37:13 PM
Don't you have the four funnels to prevent cross deck fire?
Yeah, that was part of it, but a refit could make cross deck fire possible in that case (hypothetically anyway) but it is a thought, would be up to the GMs I suppose. If they said the mass stacks were good enough I would stagger them, just for continuity
@jef thanks man, the fact that the drawing came out soooo nice is honestly what made me want to build her, definitely a greyhound of the seas, the armour is crap but she is fast and sexy with damn nice firepower. Definetly a ship the rest of the world would have to take notice of.
this is another variation on the "Maximum" mixed propulsion idea. This one is AQY and would likely fit, better all around armour with the same speed as the preceding design (22 knots) but more range and less misc. weight, also ditched the 6" secondaries and upgraded the 3" to 4" essentially it is a budget dreadnought... While I think it is legal, unlike the preceding proposal I feel that this one is a violation of the spirit of the rules even though it is clearly legal. Personally I would prefer to build the one with wing turrets :p but that's not my call. As always opinions welcomed, and given the latest IJN proposal I may think even bigger than I currently am, although I am not sure I could justify putting that much tonnage into a single hull yet.
AFX-1903, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1903 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
13,000 t light; 13,561 t standard; 14,706 t normal; 15,622 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(532.00 ft / 528.00 ft) x 74.00 ft x (26.00 / 27.22 ft)
(162.15 m / 160.93 m) x 22.56 m x (7.92 / 8.30 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1903 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
20 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 40.00lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1903 Model
18 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 raised mounts
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4,796 lbs / 2,175 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 363.30 ft / 110.73 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 155.68 ft / 47.45 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
9.02 ft / 2.75 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 363.30 ft / 110.73 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 26,600 ihp / 19,844 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 7,189nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,061 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
667 - 868
Cost:
£1.253 million / $5.010 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 848 tons, 5.8 %
- Guns: 848 tons, 5.8 %
Armour: 4,486 tons, 30.5 %
- Belts: 2,254 tons, 15.3 %
- Armament: 748 tons, 5.1 %
- Armour Deck: 1,315 tons, 8.9 %
- Conning Towers: 168 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 2,787 tons, 19.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,689 tons, 31.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,706 tons, 11.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 191 tons, 1.3 %
- Hull above water: 191 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17,589 lbs / 7,978 Kg = 26.4 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 14.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.73
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.507 / 0.514
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.14 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.98 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -17.85 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 29.50 ft / 8.99 m, 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 27.00 ft / 8.23 m, 24.50 ft / 7.47 m
- Aft deck: 55.00 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 18.71 ft / 5.70 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129.4 %
Waterplane Area: 26,188 Square feet or 2,433 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 127 lbs/sq ft or 620 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.78
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
and finally taking somewhat of the IJN approach just plain bigger in every respect, but I ditched the mixed propulsion on this version. better Armour, Faster, Bigger Basically this version is better in every possible way (ok ok so it costs a bit more). Honestly I personally prefer the lighter mixed propulsion version but I tend to get attached to ideas, and the lighter weight one is more my style... On this one to be totally honest I am not sure I couldn't refit it to have cross deck fire if I staggered the turrets ala VDT or the Is (which given its size would be very very tempting).
AFX-1903, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1903 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
18,200 t light; 18,963 t standard; 20,340 t normal; 21,442 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(571.00 ft / 567.00 ft) x 78.00 ft x (30.00 / 31.26 ft)
(174.04 m / 172.82 m) x 23.77 m x (9.14 / 9.53 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1903 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1903 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
20 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 14.00lbs / 6.35kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1903 Model
18 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 raised mounts
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6,408 lbs / 2,907 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 445.00 ft / 135.64 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 122.00 ft / 37.19 m 10.60 ft / 3.23 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 401.00 ft / 122.22 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 121 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 41,186 ihp / 30,725 Kw = 23.50 kts
Range 7,039nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,479 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
851 - 1,107
Cost:
£2.021 million / $8.083 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,176 tons, 5.8 %
- Guns: 1,176 tons, 5.8 %
Armour: 5,196 tons, 25.5 %
- Belts: 2,592 tons, 12.7 %
- Armament: 865 tons, 4.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,531 tons, 7.5 %
- Conning Towers: 209 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 5,910 tons, 29.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,634 tons, 27.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,140 tons, 10.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 284 tons, 1.4 %
- Hull above water: 284 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
13,844 lbs / 6,279 Kg = 20.8 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 14.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.52
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.537 / 0.543
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.27 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -17.85 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 29.50 ft / 8.99 m, 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 27.00 ft / 8.23 m, 24.50 ft / 7.47 m
- Aft deck: 55.00 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 18.71 ft / 5.70 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 120.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118.1 %
Waterplane Area: 30,483 Square feet or 2,832 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 132 lbs/sq ft or 644 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.62
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
and just for fun a 25 knot version with realistic OTL armour (belt height was stolen directly from Refit & Repair)
AF-1903 25 knot, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1903 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
18,337 t light; 19,017 t standard; 20,700 t normal; 22,046 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(595.00 ft / 595.00 ft) x 67.50 ft x (30.00 / 31.60 ft)
(181.36 m / 181.36 m) x 20.57 m x (9.14 / 9.63 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1903 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
20 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 40.00lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1903 Model
14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 raised mounts
6 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4,796 lbs / 2,175 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 522.00 ft / 159.11 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 73.00 ft / 22.25 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 416.00 ft / 126.80 m 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
Main Belt covers 135 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 52,171 ihp / 38,920 Kw = 25.00 kts
Range 8,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,029 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
862 - 1,121
Cost:
£2.097 million / $8.389 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 834 tons, 4.0 %
- Guns: 834 tons, 4.0 %
Armour: 4,381 tons, 21.2 %
- Belts: 2,295 tons, 11.1 %
- Armament: 680 tons, 3.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,243 tons, 6.0 %
- Conning Tower: 162 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 7,486 tons, 36.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,336 tons, 25.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,363 tons, 11.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.4 %
- On freeboard deck: 300 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
10,440 lbs / 4,735 Kg = 15.7 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 14.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.36
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
an extended bulbous bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.601 / 0.608
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.81 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.39 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 29.50 ft / 8.99 m, 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 27.00 ft / 8.23 m, 24.50 ft / 7.47 m
- Aft deck: 55.00 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 18.71 ft / 5.70 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 134.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 112.5 %
Waterplane Area: 29,410 Square feet or 2,732 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 120 lbs/sq ft or 586 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.36
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
QuoteDimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(571.00 ft / 567.00 ft) x 78.00 ft x (30.00 / 31.26 ft)
(174.04 m / 172.82 m) x 23.77 m x (9.14 / 9.53 m)
Did you have SW or DD to built a 571ft hull ?
Jef ;)
I have exactly 1 DD that can handle that long a hull, not that it matters the young eng. who proposed the wing turret ships has been removed from his office and sent to Congo where he cant do any additional harm (AKA I got told nope on wing turrets so I had to come up with a new interesting idea atm I am leaning toward a Dreadnought layout sans wing turrets for them).
Looking around, I can't find it so which 1902 BB/AC tech are the Dutch researching anyway? The all-big-gun ship with wing turrets or the all-big-gun ship with superfiring turrets (restricted axial firing arcs)?
Wings initially, I will have to do the other one eventually but my first "Dreads" will use wings.
... so what's the problem with the wing turrets? Unless of course you want to start building it before you completed researching the tech. I'd push it to 1904 when your tech can become available. One year should not matter that much I would think. Might even give you a bit of time to add/expand a slip/dock or two so you can build a few more at the same time.
oh that's exactly the issue walter, I wanted to lay down the semi dread 6 gun broadside before I had the tech then a "Improved" version after I had the tech. But alas it was ruled a no go... so I had to come up with a new idea =P
Stick to your plan, delay it a bit, increase your infrastructure ICs and BPs when possible, build more for them once the BB/AC tech becomes available. :)
Actually I can sorta stick to the plan, and still lay down a version of the "Final". Instead of going with the 4 turret version I will go with a "Q" turret version. Think HMS Dreadnought without wing turrets, then when I get the tech I can plot the wings on her and POOF I am G2G.
So I am trying to decide how much "Growth" is enough for my next class, ATM I have multiple ideas some grow a lot some not so much. the preceding class of Armoured Frigates was 11,000 tons light which given that they are essentially up gunned and up armoured versions of Armoured Cruisers is actually kind of light. The Current rendition is based loosely on the British Minotaur Class Armoured Cruiser, and comes in at almost exactly their "Factory Numbers" of 14,600 light (I ended up at 14,500) and 16,630 "normal" (I ended up at 16,369) I gave up one knot of top speed, but switched from their collection of 9.5" and 7.5" guns to 6X11" in keeping with my AQY layouts and added 2" of belt armour.
So my question is, what yall think is 3500 tons to much growth for one class or is it just about right? OH and btw I abandoned mixed propulsion for this one :'( they would have an appearance quite similar to HMS Dreadnought without wing turrets.
Ships would be named as follows
AF-13 Prince of Orange-Nassau
AF-14 Prince of Belgium
AF-15 Prince of Chimay
AFX-1903, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1903 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
14,500 t light; 15,177 t standard; 16,369 t normal; 17,322 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(523.00 ft / 519.00 ft) x 74.00 ft x (27.00 / 28.24 ft)
(159.41 m / 158.19 m) x 22.56 m x (8.23 / 8.61 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1903 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck centre
10 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1903 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
20 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1903 Model
14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
14 raised mounts
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
3 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,796 lbs / 2,629 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 372.00 ft / 113.39 m 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 147.00 ft / 44.81 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 363.00 ft / 110.64 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 110 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm - -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 29,003 ihp / 21,636 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 7,044nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,145 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
723 - 940
Cost:
£1.549 million / $6.196 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,030 tons, 6.3 %
- Guns: 1,030 tons, 6.3 %
Armour: 4,248 tons, 25.9 %
- Belts: 2,408 tons, 14.7 %
- Armament: 734 tons, 4.5 %
- Armour Deck: 925 tons, 5.7 %
- Conning Towers: 181 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 4,162 tons, 25.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,693 tons, 28.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,869 tons, 11.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 368 tons, 2.2 %
- Hull above water: 286 tons
- On freeboard deck: 82 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
13,960 lbs / 6,332 Kg = 21.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 13.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.65
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.552 / 0.559
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.01 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.78 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -17.85 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 29.50 ft / 8.99 m, 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 27.00 ft / 8.23 m, 24.50 ft / 7.47 m
- Aft deck: 55.00 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 18.71 ft / 5.70 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 110.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.5 %
Waterplane Area: 26,866 Square feet or 2,496 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 127 lbs/sq ft or 620 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.78
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Misc. Weight not distributed but would be for the actual ship, I am considering using a tripod mast just for looks on her (which is what the "on Deck" misc weight would represent.)
and now for something mildly interesting, They would be ALOT bigger than anything previously built but they are kinda cool. Gobs of Misc. weight for future growth or whatever I wanted to put on em, Range for well literally days (could cruise from The Netherlands to any of the colonies without refueling). Armoured against their own guns (a first for me) and still reasonably fast while not exceeding the mixed propulsion limits. All in all not bad ships IMHO, and proly the best I could do pre Dreadnoughts.
Beschermer Class, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1903 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
15,500 t light; 16,325 t standard; 17,903 t normal; 19,165 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(531.50 ft / 527.00 ft) x 82.00 ft x (29.00 / 30.53 ft)
(162.00 m / 160.63 m) x 24.99 m x (8.84 / 9.31 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1903 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
10 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1903 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
20 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1903 Model
14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
3 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,596 lbs / 2,538 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 342.55 ft / 104.41 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 184.43 ft / 56.21 m 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 342.55 ft / 104.41 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 11.0" / 279 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 11.00" / 279 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 26,600 ihp / 19,844 Kw = 21.28 kts
Range 11,742nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,841 tons (10% coal)
Complement:
773 - 1,006
Cost:
£1.363 million / $5.452 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 993 tons, 5.5 %
- Guns: 993 tons, 5.5 %
Armour: 5,607 tons, 31.3 %
- Belts: 2,980 tons, 16.6 %
- Armament: 1,053 tons, 5.9 %
- Armour Deck: 1,411 tons, 7.9 %
- Conning Tower: 162 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 2,582 tons, 14.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,318 tons, 29.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,403 tons, 13.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,000 tons, 5.6 %
- Hull above water: 500 tons
- On freeboard deck: 500 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
24,811 lbs / 11,254 Kg = 37.3 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 3.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
Metacentric height 5.9 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 14.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.75
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.508
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.43 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.96 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.50 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 27.00 ft / 8.23 m, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Forward deck: 37.00 %, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Aft deck: 28.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Average freeboard: 18.62 ft / 5.67 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.6 %
Waterplane Area: 28,792 Square feet or 2,675 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 657 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.93
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
or I could just go for the Stupid fast (for the period) version.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1903 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
15,500 t light; 16,096 t standard; 17,116 t normal; 17,932 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(550.00 ft / 550.00 ft) x 74.00 ft x (29.00 / 30.05 ft)
(167.64 m / 167.64 m) x 22.56 m x (8.84 / 9.16 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1903 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
20 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.27lbs / 14.64kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1903 Model
14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
3 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4,641 lbs / 2,105 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 466.00 ft / 142.04 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 84.00 ft / 25.60 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 360.00 ft / 109.73 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 130 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 40,103 ihp / 29,917 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 5,700nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,836 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
747 - 972
Cost:
£1.756 million / $7.022 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 844 tons, 4.9 %
- Guns: 844 tons, 4.9 %
Armour: 3,721 tons, 21.7 %
- Belts: 1,956 tons, 11.4 %
- Armament: 681 tons, 4.0 %
- Armour Deck: 941 tons, 5.5 %
- Conning Tower: 143 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 5,755 tons, 33.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,960 tons, 29.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,616 tons, 9.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 220 tons, 1.3 %
- On freeboard deck: 220 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
10,080 lbs / 4,572 Kg = 15.1 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 13.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.43
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.508 / 0.513
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.43 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 25.00 ft / 7.62 m, 20.50 ft / 6.25 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 20.50 ft / 6.25 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Aft deck: 40.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 17.62 ft / 5.37 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 130.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118.1 %
Waterplane Area: 27,307 Square feet or 2,537 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 89 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 126 lbs/sq ft or 616 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.60
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
and for anyone who is actually bothering to look at these. A truly "fast" version (seriously 24 knots in the VTE era was fast as hell)
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1903 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
15,500 t light; 16,097 t standard; 17,185 t normal; 18,056 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(550.00 ft / 550.00 ft) x 74.00 ft x (29.00 / 30.11 ft)
(167.64 m / 167.64 m) x 22.56 m x (8.84 / 9.18 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1903 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
20 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.28lbs / 14.64kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1903 Model
14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
14 raised mounts
3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
3 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4,641 lbs / 2,105 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 466.00 ft / 142.04 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 84.00 ft / 25.60 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 360.00 ft / 109.73 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 130 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 40,230 ihp / 30,012 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 6,100nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,959 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
749 - 975
Cost:
£1.758 million / $7.032 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 844 tons, 4.9 %
- Guns: 844 tons, 4.9 %
Armour: 3,541 tons, 20.6 %
- Belts: 1,759 tons, 10.2 %
- Armament: 653 tons, 3.8 %
- Armour Deck: 942 tons, 5.5 %
- Conning Towers: 187 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 5,773 tons, 33.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,069 tons, 29.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,685 tons, 9.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 273 tons, 1.6 %
- On freeboard deck: 273 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
10,361 lbs / 4,700 Kg = 15.6 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 14.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.49
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.510 / 0.516
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.43 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 27.50 ft / 8.38 m, 23.50 ft / 7.16 m
- Forward deck: 42.00 %, 23.50 ft / 7.16 m, 19.50 ft / 5.94 m
- Aft deck: 28.00 %, 12.50 ft / 3.81 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Average freeboard: 18.47 ft / 5.63 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 130.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125.2 %
Waterplane Area: 27,358 Square feet or 2,542 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 89 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 127 lbs/sq ft or 621 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.69
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
... a kind of early BC
Jef ;)
Esentialy exactly what it is Jeff. I are teh like this one honestly. Sure it has bumps and warts, but the built in speed makes it "useful" far beyond its initial lifetime (aka the pre dreadnought era). It is Fast, "Tough", and well armed. Sure with Coal propulsion and VTEs it cant maintain that 24 knots for very long but DAMN man, 24 knots with semi reasonable armour.
Quote from: Jefgte on October 10, 2015, 05:54:31 PM
... a kind of early BC
Jef ;)
latest incarnation of my sorta semi BC circa 1903, bit slower has a 6" secondary battery has better armour. as always Opinions are welcome.
AFX-1903, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1903 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
15,000 t light; 15,705 t standard; 16,920 t normal; 17,892 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(523.00 ft / 519.00 ft) x 75.00 ft x (29.00 / 30.28 ft)
(159.41 m / 158.19 m) x 22.86 m x (8.84 / 9.23 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1903 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck centre
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1903 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
20 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1903 Model
14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
14 raised mounts
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
3 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,996 lbs / 2,720 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 411.00 ft / 125.27 m 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 105.00 ft / 32.00 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
3.00 ft / 0.91 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 363.00 ft / 110.64 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Main Belt covers 122 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm - -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 34,839 ihp / 25,990 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 7,044nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,187 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
741 - 964
Cost:
£1.694 million / $6.776 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,067 tons, 6.3 %
- Guns: 1,067 tons, 6.3 %
Armour: 4,192 tons, 24.8 %
- Belts: 2,200 tons, 13.0 %
- Armament: 685 tons, 4.0 %
- Armour Deck: 1,123 tons, 6.6 %
- Conning Towers: 185 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 4,999 tons, 29.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,619 tons, 27.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,920 tons, 11.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 122 tons, 0.7 %
- Hull above water: 100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 22 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11,401 lbs / 5,171 Kg = 17.1 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 13.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.49
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.525 / 0.531
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.92 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.78 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -17.85 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 28.50 ft / 8.69 m, 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 26.00 ft / 7.92 m, 23.50 ft / 7.16 m
- Aft deck: 55.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 17.71 ft / 5.40 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 121.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.2 %
Waterplane Area: 26,529 Square feet or 2,465 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 126 lbs/sq ft or 617 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.82
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Not much to say except...
Quote3.00 ft / 0.91 m Unarmoured ends
Surely you could fix that tiny gap, right? :)
every time I edit it LOL, I always forget to stretch the end belt.
Quote from: Walter on November 26, 2015, 07:22:27 PM
Not much to say except...
Quote3.00 ft / 0.91 m Unarmoured ends
Surely you could fix that tiny gap, right? :)
Machinery for 23kts is expensive with VTE engines : 5000t => 30% of the displacement.
Jef ;)
Very Very true Jef, I have to ask myself if its worth it. In the end I think it proly is, what I am still not sure about is the belts. Found this yesterday when I was doing research for my first dreadnought type and now I kind of wonder if we arnt all over armouring our ships... http://postimg.org/image/u164lk6px/full/ its the armour layout for one of the QE designs and shows that the "main" belt was only like 9' tall... so now I am trying to decide if I should shorten it on my ships.
Quote from: Jefgte on November 27, 2015, 01:45:00 AM
Machinery for 23kts is expensive with VTE engines : 5000t => 30% of the displacement.
Jef ;)
France limit the speed to 21kts for BB with VTE techno (17400t République & Démocratie).
The first class to use turbines w"ll be a 24kts scout cruiser LD in 1905, engines installed in 1906, & commissioned mid. 1907.
IMO, Higher speed for BB with VTE is too BP expensive.
Jef ;)
I have built my entire fleet around neener neener I'm faster than you from the beginning, so I kind of painted myself into a corner for this class. I don't have the dreadnought tech yet so I cant build them, and with "Real" BBs coming online that can hit 20 knots I had to step up my speed anyway (not to mention I had to raise my tonnage for the 11/45 over the original 11/40 anyway). I originally planned to go for 22 knots but your 21s inspired me to push it a bit further than originally planned, that said 23 is about the limit honestly for VTEs.
Quote from: Jefgte on November 27, 2015, 04:21:01 PM
France limit the speed to 21kts for BB with VTE techno (17400t République & Démocratie).
The first class to use turbines w"ll be a 24kts scout cruiser LD in 1905, engines installed in 1906, & commissioned mid. 1907.
IMO, Higher speed for BB with VTE is too BP expensive.
Jef ;)
Just out of curiosity, how reliable and fuel-efficient were the early turbines? Did things improve with oil-spray and later with pure oil-firing?
Reasonably reliable but very inefficient. Efficiency went up alot with later developments.
We can not allow a neener neener gap, Mr. President.
mostly just messing around with em atm, as I don't have the tech yet but kinda liked this one so thought I would go ahead and post it. Opinions as always are welcome.
HNLMS De Zeven Provincien, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
14,000 t light; 14,749 t standard; 16,121 t normal; 17,219 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(520.00 ft / 520.00 ft) x 79.00 ft x (27.00 / 28.39 ft)
(158.50 m / 158.50 m) x 24.08 m x (8.23 / 8.65 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
1 raised mount
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
20 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
20 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
4 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 7,248 lbs / 3,288 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 338.00 ft / 103.02 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 181.98 ft / 55.47 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 338.00 ft / 103.02 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
3rd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 6.00" / 152 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 20,000 shp / 14,920 Kw = 20.04 kts
Range 6,684nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,470 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
714 - 929
Cost:
£1.322 million / $5.287 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,306 tons, 8.1 %
- Guns: 1,306 tons, 8.1 %
Armour: 5,562 tons, 34.5 %
- Belts: 2,746 tons, 17.0 %
- Armament: 1,244 tons, 7.7 %
- Armour Deck: 1,352 tons, 8.4 %
- Conning Towers: 220 tons, 1.4 %
Machinery: 1,650 tons, 10.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,385 tons, 33.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,121 tons, 13.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 97 tons, 0.6 %
- On freeboard deck: 97 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
25,315 lbs / 11,483 Kg = 38.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 3.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 14.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.76
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.509 / 0.517
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.58 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.80 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -8.50 ft / -2.59 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Aft deck: 50.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 19.50 ft / 5.94 m
- Average freeboard: 19.55 ft / 5.96 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 67.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140.7 %
Waterplane Area: 27,594 Square feet or 2,564 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 144 lbs/sq ft or 705 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.09
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Latest incarnation of my "fast" Armoured Frigate reworked as a 24 month build 21 knots Decent if not great armour aBXy layout. Personaly I am not to sure about the layout, sort of a bigger faster South Carolina (also not sure I need to keep the 6" guns possibly replace them with a whole horde of 4"?), as always opinions welcomed.
AF-03-1904, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
15,000 t light; 15,748 t standard; 16,957 t normal; 17,925 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(520.00 ft / 520.00 ft) x 77.20 ft x (29.00 / 30.25 ft)
(158.50 m / 158.50 m) x 23.53 m x (8.84 / 9.22 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 671.17lbs / 304.44kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
4 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 7,049 lbs / 3,198 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 338.00 ft / 103.02 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 181.98 ft / 55.47 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 338.00 ft / 103.02 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 9.00" / 229 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm - -
3rd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 11.00" / 279 mm, Aft 6.00" / 152 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 24,543 ihp / 18,309 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,177 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
742 - 965
Cost:
£1.473 million / $5.893 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,252 tons, 7.4 %
- Guns: 1,252 tons, 7.4 %
Armour: 5,618 tons, 33.1 %
- Belts: 3,088 tons, 18.2 %
- Armament: 1,375 tons, 8.1 %
- Armour Deck: 913 tons, 5.4 %
- Conning Towers: 242 tons, 1.4 %
Machinery: 2,571 tons, 15.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,368 tons, 31.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,957 tons, 11.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 190 tons, 1.1 %
- Hull below water: 30 tons
- Hull above water: 75 tons
- On freeboard deck: 85 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
18,584 lbs / 8,430 Kg = 27.9 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 4.0 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 16.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.70
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.40
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.510 / 0.517
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.74 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.80 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 16.24 ft / 4.95 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 110.8 %
Waterplane Area: 26,988 Square feet or 2,507 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 147 lbs/sq ft or 720 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.75
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
What is the design rationale for the thin deck ends?
Most hits to the deck will be at a very shallow angle during this period but it feels like 1" should be easily penetrated. Of course, some historical designs did have a similar armor scheme...
NAaB seems to think that 1" deck armor is penetrable from 6,500 yds out, but that's a 3 degrees angle of fall and it probably doesn't account for the possibility of ricochet.
I just copied the armour from OTL ships, its not exactly IMHO ideal but it is historicly acurate.
made a few changes, traded some freeboard for stability and recoil reduction. and over all increased armour protection. Armour is now on par with anything currently being proposed by anyone else. Freeboard is lowish IMHO but I more or less stole it from Derfflinger, which was by any standard wildly successful OTL. Layout is still the same, so a very traditional aBXy (would have preferred to go like Derfflinger aBQy but there isn't enough room IMHO). As always opinions are welcome, this is likely the production version baring some glaring error.
AF-03-1904-2, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
15,000 t light; 15,747 t standard; 16,957 t normal; 17,925 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(520.00 ft / 520.00 ft) x 77.00 ft x (29.00 / 30.26 ft)
(158.50 m / 158.50 m) x 23.47 m x (8.84 / 9.22 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 671.18lbs / 304.44kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
4 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 7,050 lbs / 3,198 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 338.00 ft / 103.02 m 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 181.98 ft / 55.47 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 298.00 ft / 90.83 m 7.50 ft / 2.29 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 9.00" / 229 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm - -
3rd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 11.00" / 279 mm, Aft 6.00" / 152 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 24,547 ihp / 18,312 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,177 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
742 - 965
Cost:
£1.473 million / $5.893 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,252 tons, 7.4 %
- Guns: 1,252 tons, 7.4 %
Armour: 5,844 tons, 34.5 %
- Belts: 3,180 tons, 18.8 %
- Armament: 1,260 tons, 7.4 %
- Armour Deck: 1,163 tons, 6.9 %
- Conning Towers: 242 tons, 1.4 %
Machinery: 2,572 tons, 15.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,205 tons, 30.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,957 tons, 11.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 126 tons, 0.7 %
- Hull below water: 30 tons
- Hull above water: 30 tons
- On freeboard deck: 66 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17,897 lbs / 8,118 Kg = 26.9 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 4.0 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 16.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.36
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.511 / 0.518
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.75 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.80 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 15.58 ft / 4.75 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 99.5 %
Waterplane Area: 26,951 Square feet or 2,504 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 144 lbs/sq ft or 705 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.67
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
You might want to add enough misc. weight to add Fire Control later on. It could be space for marines or something in the interim.
As rock pointed out I need to clear a bit more misc. weight for a future FC install, but other than that it is more or less final (I will proly trim the main belt a few feet in the horizontal axis). so without further delay or grandstanding, here is the drawing you all knew was coming. Ended up a bit "modern" looking IMHO but overall I like it.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/AF-1904-2-final_zpsnrhrwbw8.png) (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/AF-1904-2-final_zpsnrhrwbw8.png)
(Click to see full size)
I like it too. Elegant battleship.
Jef ;)
Logi's AC got me thinking what a potential dutch response might look like. While I don't have the main guns, the ship came out rather well IMHO so I decided to go ahead and post it to see opinions. Personaly I don't think I can afford to build it but it might give someone considering ACs an idea. Layout is aBqy (rather like lion honestly) and I feel it would be too slow at 22.4 knots but opinions are as always welcome.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
7,000 t light; 7,363 t standard; 8,540 t normal; 9,482 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(545.00 ft / 545.00 ft) x 58.00 ft x (18.50 / 20.05 ft)
(166.12 m / 166.12 m) x 17.68 m x (5.64 / 6.11 m)
Armament:
8 - 8.00" / 203 mm 50.0 cal guns - 200.00lbs / 90.72kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
1 raised mount
7 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1904 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 2,300 lbs / 1,043 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 327.00 ft / 99.67 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 217.98 ft / 66.44 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 1.50" / 38 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 1.25" / 32 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 5.00" / 127 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 20,000 shp / 14,920 Kw = 22.40 kts
Range 8,171nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,119 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
443 - 577
Cost:
£0.774 million / $3.096 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 743 tons, 8.7 %
- Guns: 743 tons, 8.7 %
Armour: 1,710 tons, 20.0 %
- Belts: 846 tons, 9.9 %
- Armament: 346 tons, 4.1 %
- Armour Deck: 473 tons, 5.5 %
- Conning Tower: 45 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 1,650 tons, 19.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,860 tons, 33.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,540 tons, 18.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 38 tons, 0.4 %
- On freeboard deck: 38 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9,754 lbs / 4,424 Kg = 38.1 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.35
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.511 / 0.524
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.40 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.35 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarter deck: 20.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 15.60 ft / 4.75 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 132.7 %
Waterplane Area: 21,281 Square feet or 1,977 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 102 lbs/sq ft or 496 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.03
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
I think it would be a fairly questionable response considering the Japanese AC would be laid down in 1904/H2 - a response should be laid down after what it is responding to. In addition, the Netherlands doesn't even have a 8"/50 gun. Considering you didn't start researching a gun even in 1903/H2, I would expect the earliest the Netherlands can have such a gun would be 1906/H1.
Also, I think your main belt is off in length by a few feet.
QuoteMain Belt covers 92 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
I'm a little curious if the ship would fit the guns you want. After all, you have an additional non-superfiring 8"/50 gun as well as a 6"/45 superfiring gun on centerline. In just gun barrel length, that's an extra 56 ft in just barrel lengths, not even counting turret space and space to rotate the turrets. Your design is only 44 ft longer so your ship will be more cramped than mine. If it does indeed fit I might look to see if I can decrease my own design's length (it saves composite strength).
-------
From what I've seen, the Dutch main battle line is 21 kn. This cruiser has a top speed of 22.4 kn, only 1.4 kn more, which leads to questions as to how you intend it to operate. You could attach it to the battle line but that would be a waste of it's speed and also it doesn't have quite the armor to stand in such a line. If you detach it as a fast wing, it doesn't have quite the speed margin over the main battle line to do maneuvers that the battle line couldn't do. In other words, it's place in the Dutch navy seems to be neither here nor there.
Edit: I've just noticed your 8" guns run with extraordinary lightweight rounds. Even 8"/30 rounds from 1883 ran 260lb shells, 30% heavier than your 200 lb rounds. The shell weight is the same as the British 7.5"/50.... are you sure you didn't mean to put 7.5" guns on the ship instead of 8" guns?
I stole the shell weight from the British 7.5 (I had the data handy and figured since I didn't have one anyway it was close enough), your question about the centerline 6" it is SF over the Y turret (not mounted on it but just forward of it). The armour belt is a minor issue (apparently the sim got slightly screwed up when I saved it, and I forgot to check everything), also Logi I think everything would fit as it is something like 43' longer than yours. The speed issue is honestly my biggest concern, Honestly I just don't think I can afford to build it, it was just a blue sky proposal, I don't intend to draw it or anything if I build a "AC" it will proly have 6X11/45... I have sorta an ongoing internal argument about that atm, it goes somthing like this
Me: "I should build a battlecruiser"
Me2: "You hate battlecruisers"
Me: "Yeah but someone has to build them, and it could be fun"
Me2: "Let someone else do it, Continents don't Dodge"
me: "But But But FAST WING"
at which point I usualy break down and turn whatever "fast battleship" I was working on into a slow slugger...
this is definitely a "Blue Sky" proposal, although it is relatively close to what I would consider a "Scout"... Hence why I don't think I can afford to build battle cruisers... possibly one for every 3 BB's, it would be cheaper for what it's worth.
AFX-1903, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
13,500 t light; 14,129 t standard; 15,273 t normal; 16,189 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(520.00 ft / 520.00 ft) x 75.00 ft x (27.00 / 28.22 ft)
(158.50 m / 158.50 m) x 22.86 m x (8.23 / 8.60 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
10 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
16 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,476 lbs / 2,484 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 426.00 ft / 129.84 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 94.00 ft / 28.65 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Main Belt covers 126 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm - -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 32,511 ihp / 24,253 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 7,044nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,060 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
686 - 893
Cost:
£1.578 million / $6.313 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,010 tons, 6.6 %
- Guns: 1,010 tons, 6.6 %
Armour: 2,897 tons, 19.0 %
- Belts: 923 tons, 6.0 %
- Armament: 758 tons, 5.0 %
- Armour Deck: 1,084 tons, 7.1 %
- Conning Tower: 133 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 4,665 tons, 30.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,610 tons, 30.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,773 tons, 11.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 318 tons, 2.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 318 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9,091 lbs / 4,124 Kg = 13.7 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 14.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.30
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.508 / 0.515
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.93 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.80 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 15.58 ft / 4.75 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 125.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 104.5 %
Waterplane Area: 26,168 Square feet or 2,431 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 132 lbs/sq ft or 646 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.53
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
And finally the "Big" version... 16K tons light, 24 knots (YAY fast enough to scout for me), the armour is Lightish, but for an aditional 1K tons light I get 8X11" @ 24 knots (with a lot of imo questionable trade offs). This version is actually likely to get serious consideration. My plan was originally to build 3 of the 21 knot BB's, now I am considering 2 BB's and one "AC" (which is honestly a more reasonable plan). Layout is sorta like Derfflinger (so aB...Q.y, and I no haven't even started drawing it yet).
As always opinions welcome (I know its a bit light on Misc weight though, I will proly decide to add a couple hundred tons to it).
Nike, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
16,000 t light; 16,675 t standard; 17,943 t normal; 18,957 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(550.00 ft / 550.00 ft) x 75.00 ft x (30.00 / 31.28 ft)
(167.64 m / 167.64 m) x 22.86 m x (9.14 / 9.54 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x Twin mount layout not set
1 raised mount
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,928 lbs / 2,689 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 478.00 ft / 145.69 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 72.00 ft / 21.95 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 275.00 ft / 83.82 m 6.00 ft / 1.83 m
Main Belt covers 134 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
3rd: 0.25" / 6 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 0.75" / 19 mm Quarter deck: 0.75" / 19 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.00" / 229 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 41,334 ihp / 30,835 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,282 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
774 - 1,007
Cost:
£1.923 million / $7.692 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,092 tons, 6.1 %
- Guns: 1,092 tons, 6.1 %
Armour: 3,399 tons, 18.9 %
- Belts: 1,632 tons, 9.1 %
- Armament: 722 tons, 4.0 %
- Armour Deck: 912 tons, 5.1 %
- Conning Tower: 133 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 5,931 tons, 33.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,400 tons, 30.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,943 tons, 10.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 177 tons, 1.0 %
- On freeboard deck: 177 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8,626 lbs / 3,913 Kg = 13.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 4.0 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 15.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.507 / 0.514
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 15.58 ft / 4.75 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 133.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.0 %
Waterplane Area: 27,672 Square feet or 2,571 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 87 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs/sq ft or 683 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.46
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
*Edit* I put in the wrong report LOL (hazard of having 3 ships open at once I suppose)
Quoteso aB...Q.y, and I no haven't even started drawing it yet
Here's your hull to start with. ;D
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Logo_NIKE.svg/320px-Logo_NIKE.svg.png)
One of your turrets isn't placed.
Quote8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x Twin mount layout not set
Your seakeeping is at 1.17 so I would recommend trying to get it to 1.21
I still feel like the deck is way too thin at 19mm....
good catch logi, I missed that in all my edits. Note I don't disagree really about the deck armour, it is just what I can get effectively (like I said some trade offs I find questionable even if OTL ships had similar armour).
Should fix all the issues, had to lower the Q turret for the tonnage for the FC install, should still fit and it let me improve the deck armour a bit, and improved the sea boat ratings. Layout will now resemble more like Lion, but all in all a tidy little BC.
Nike, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
16,000 t light; 16,675 t standard; 17,943 t normal; 18,957 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(550.00 ft / 550.00 ft) x 75.00 ft x (30.00 / 31.28 ft)
(167.64 m / 167.64 m) x 22.86 m x (9.14 / 9.54 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck centre
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,928 lbs / 2,689 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 478.00 ft / 145.69 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 72.00 ft / 21.95 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 275.00 ft / 83.82 m 6.00 ft / 1.83 m
Main Belt covers 134 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
3rd: 0.25" / 6 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.00" / 229 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 41,334 ihp / 30,835 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,282 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
774 - 1,007
Cost:
£1.923 million / $7.692 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,092 tons, 6.1 %
- Guns: 1,092 tons, 6.1 %
Armour: 3,514 tons, 19.6 %
- Belts: 1,632 tons, 9.1 %
- Armament: 765 tons, 4.3 %
- Armour Deck: 984 tons, 5.5 %
- Conning Tower: 133 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 5,931 tons, 33.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,158 tons, 28.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,943 tons, 10.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 305 tons, 1.7 %
- On freeboard deck: 305 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8,793 lbs / 3,988 Kg = 13.2 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 15.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.507 / 0.514
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 15.58 ft / 4.75 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 133.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.0 %
Waterplane Area: 27,672 Square feet or 2,571 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 86 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 655 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.46
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
305 tons Misc. Weight
25 tons Wireless
30 tons Top Secret mind blowing stuff (aka not sure yet)
250 tons Call it a Reserve for the Moment (realisticly it is the FC reserve)
and the latest incarnation of my "Battle Cruiser". The idea was to see how large a ship would have to be in order to mount 8X11/45, an extensive 10" belt, and still be capable of hitting a reasonable speed (I ended up at 23 knots, which while not as fast as some is still respectable IMHO). If I built this ship it would likely only be at a 2BB-1BC ratio at best.
Nike, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
18,000 t light; 18,810 t standard; 20,168 t normal; 21,254 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(557.00 ft / 557.00 ft) x 77.00 ft x (30.00 / 31.27 ft)
(169.77 m / 169.77 m) x 23.47 m x (9.14 / 9.53 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
4 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 raised mounts
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
Weight of broadside 7,008 lbs / 3,179 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 415.00 ft / 126.49 m 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 142.00 ft / 43.28 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 275.00 ft / 83.82 m 7.50 ft / 2.29 m
Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
3rd: 0.25" / 6 mm - -
4th: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 11.00" / 279 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 38,080 ihp / 28,407 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,445 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
846 - 1,100
Cost:
£1.983 million / $7.933 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,283 tons, 6.4 %
- Guns: 1,283 tons, 6.4 %
Armour: 5,421 tons, 26.9 %
- Belts: 3,032 tons, 15.0 %
- Armament: 876 tons, 4.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,290 tons, 6.4 %
- Conning Towers: 223 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 5,464 tons, 27.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,532 tons, 27.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,168 tons, 10.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.5 %
- On freeboard deck: 300 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
13,278 lbs / 6,023 Kg = 20.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 15.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.25
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.549 / 0.555
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.23 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Average freeboard: 15.61 ft / 4.76 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 96.8 %
Waterplane Area: 29,891 Square feet or 2,777 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 138 lbs/sq ft or 674 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.41
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Not really all that different than the preceding version but I decided to go with a Q turret instead of a Raised X, made a few trims and got it down to 17.5K. God Damn do I like this ship... I really want to build it but I am having trouble justifying it internally, honestly I should build as small and as cheep as I can but GOD DAMN I want to build her. The drawing is only rough but everything should fit...
Nike, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
17,500 t light; 18,300 t standard; 19,637 t normal; 20,707 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(557.00 ft / 557.00 ft) x 77.00 ft x (30.00 / 31.27 ft)
(169.77 m / 169.77 m) x 23.47 m x (9.14 / 9.53 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 raised mounts
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
Weight of broadside 7,008 lbs / 3,179 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 419.00 ft / 127.71 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 138.00 ft / 42.06 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 275.00 ft / 83.82 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Main Belt covers 116 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
3rd: 0.25" / 6 mm - -
4th: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 37,291 ihp / 27,819 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,407 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
829 - 1,078
Cost:
£1.950 million / $7.800 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,283 tons, 6.5 %
- Guns: 1,283 tons, 6.5 %
Armour: 5,196 tons, 26.5 %
- Belts: 2,931 tons, 14.9 %
- Armament: 789 tons, 4.0 %
- Armour Deck: 1,273 tons, 6.5 %
- Conning Towers: 204 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 5,351 tons, 27.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,345 tons, 27.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,137 tons, 10.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 325 tons, 1.7 %
- On freeboard deck: 325 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12,938 lbs / 5,868 Kg = 19.4 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 14.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.30
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.534 / 0.540
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.23 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Average freeboard: 15.61 ft / 4.76 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 115.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.5 %
Waterplane Area: 29,492 Square feet or 2,740 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 660 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.43
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Of late I am having a bit of a love affair with the OTL HMS Lion... God they were beautiful ships, so I decided to rework my Armoured Frigate a bit to see how it would work as a shrunk lion. Actually came out fairly well I think, this would allow me to later have a love affair with Hood... armour is a bit heavy in comparison to OTL but it is fitting with my principals I think. While substantially bigger than any of the ones I have previously given serious consideration to, I think I could justify the growth... I have this whole series of conversations half way worked out in my head.
As always opinions are welcome.
Nike, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
17,500 t light; 18,230 t standard; 19,565 t normal; 20,633 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(557.00 ft / 557.00 ft) x 77.00 ft x (30.00 / 31.27 ft)
(169.77 m / 169.77 m) x 23.47 m x (9.14 / 9.53 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck aft
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.28lbs / 14.64kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
4 raised mounts
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 6,195 lbs / 2,810 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 412.00 ft / 125.58 m 12.50 ft / 3.81 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 145.00 ft / 44.20 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 275.00 ft / 83.82 m 7.50 ft / 2.29 m
Main Belt covers 114 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
3rd: 0.25" / 6 mm - -
4th: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 37,183 ihp / 27,739 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,402 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
826 - 1,075
Cost:
£1.905 million / $7.619 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,130 tons, 5.8 %
- Guns: 1,130 tons, 5.8 %
Armour: 4,979 tons, 25.5 %
- Belts: 2,673 tons, 13.7 %
- Armament: 879 tons, 4.5 %
- Armour Deck: 1,270 tons, 6.5 %
- Conning Tower: 156 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 5,336 tons, 27.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,730 tons, 29.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,065 tons, 10.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 326 tons, 1.7 %
- On freeboard deck: 326 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15,072 lbs / 6,836 Kg = 22.6 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 14.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.56
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.532 / 0.538
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.23 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 27.00 ft / 8.23 m, 22.50 ft / 6.86 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 22.50 ft / 6.86 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m, 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Average freeboard: 19.02 ft / 5.80 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 113.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127.1 %
Waterplane Area: 29,437 Square feet or 2,735 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 137 lbs/sq ft or 667 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.72
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
a "Colonial Cruiser" Sure it isn't a true battleship/battlecruiser but it is big and tough enough to make someone send real ones to deal with it. Sort of an Olympia with better (and more) guns, the low cost and relatively high speed (for the time) make for an interesting package.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
9,000 t light; 9,439 t standard; 10,226 t normal; 10,855 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(441.00 ft / 441.00 ft) x 66.00 ft x (26.00 / 27.16 ft)
(134.42 m / 134.42 m) x 20.12 m x (7.92 / 8.28 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
14 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 4,416 lbs / 2,003 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 356.00 ft / 108.51 m 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 84.00 ft / 25.60 m 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
1.00 ft / 0.30 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 286.65 ft / 87.37 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 124 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
- Protected deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 6.00" / 152 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
No drive to shaft, 4 shafts, 26,630 ihp / 19,866 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,416 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
507 - 660
Cost:
£1.108 million / $4.430 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 803 tons, 7.9 %
- Guns: 803 tons, 7.9 %
Armour: 1,879 tons, 18.4 %
- Belts: 681 tons, 6.7 %
- Armament: 496 tons, 4.9 %
- Armour Deck: 640 tons, 6.3 %
- Conning Tower: 61 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 2,818 tons, 27.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,465 tons, 33.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,226 tons, 12.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 35 tons, 0.3 %
- On freeboard deck: 35 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,020 lbs / 2,731 Kg = 9.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 15.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.15
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.473 / 0.481
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.68 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Average freeboard: 14.72 ft / 4.49 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 124.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 99.0 %
Waterplane Area: 18,925 Square feet or 1,758 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 637 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.06
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
*edit* forgot to put in the report >.<
Couple of issues:
1
Quote1.00 ft / 0.30 m Unarmoured ends
2
QuoteCoal and oil fired boilers
...
Bunker at max displacement = 1,416 tons (100% coal)
3
QuoteNo drive to shaft, 4 shafts, 26,630 ihp / 19,866 Kw = 23.00 kts
Also, a BC of 0.473 seems way too low to me.
Beyond the issues Walter mentioned:
QuoteCoal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
No drive to shaft, 4 shafts, 26,630 ihp / 19,866 Kw = 23.00 kts
You're over the mixed propulsion SHP limit (presuming you use 4 shafts)
And I agree with Walter that your Cb is excessively low. Sub-0.500 Cb is firmly in DD territory. This is exacerbated by the ABY large caliber armament on a very thin beam. The OTL Brandenburgs, one of the thinnest ships mounting battleship-caliber guns was 19.5m (you're at 20.12) and certainly had a much higher Cb than your design.
I also find the main/end belt armor to be excessively short. You mitigate this by having a upper belt, but practically the ship's armor thickness
is the upper belt thickness. Why not just eliminate the upper belt by making the main belt taller and then thinning out the main belt. You might get a uniform 105mm belt instead of what is effectively a 76mm belt.
Btw, the freeboard on your ship is odd. It's a flush-decker but the the rise from midbreak to bow is quite large so I have suspicions that your A gun wouldn't be able to fire in the forward arc at all since battle ranges are at low elevation right now and there's an almost 1.5m rise from bow to the forecastle (i.e. before turret A).
actually the no drive thing bothers me the most LOL I opened the file and it is listed as Direct, make the report and it goes no drive... now I am wondering what the hell I did to SS3. The BC is legal under our rules, and the free board is literally clicked Flush Deck and rounded to even numbers. DOPH *back to the drawing board on the over SHP thing... I swore it was 26600 not 25600, although I still think that approach is flawed
BTW, now yall made me want to build it =P when it was just a blue sky proposal... *wanders off to play with it some more*
OH btw Logi the armour was my attempt (admittedly likely flawed) to sim the "late" Protected Cruisers, with the "skirts" on their protected decks.
Quoteactually the no drive thing bothers me the most LOL I opened the file and it is listed as Direct, make the report and it goes no drive... now I am wondering what the hell I did to SS3.
I was trying to look on my end to see what could be wrong by entering all your values into SS. I get the direct drive in my report, but for some weird reason the weights for the belts and armament is lower on my sim...
Now I noticed that I forgot to trim the vessel to match yours but that is not going to have any influence on the weights of the belt armor and armament armor...
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
9,000 t light; 9,439 t standard; 10,226 t normal; 10,855 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(441.00 ft / 441.00 ft) x 66.00 ft x (26.00 / 27.16 ft)
(134.42 m / 134.42 m) x 20.12 m x (7.92 / 8.28 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
14 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 4,416 lbs / 2,003 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 356.00 ft / 108.51 m 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 84.00 ft / 25.60 m 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
1.00 ft / 0.30 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 286.65 ft / 87.37 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 124 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
- Protected deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 6.00" / 152 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 26,634 ihp / 19,869 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,416 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
507 - 660
Cost:
£1.108 million / $4.430 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 803 tons, 7.9 %
- Guns: 803 tons, 7.9 %
Armour: 1,841 tons, 18.0 %
- Belts: 679 tons, 6.6 % - Armament: 461 tons, 4.5 % - Armour Deck: 640 tons, 6.3 %
- Conning Tower: 61 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 2,818 tons, 27.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,502 tons, 34.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,226 tons, 12.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 35 tons, 0.3 %
- On freeboard deck: 35 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,202 lbs / 2,813 Kg = 9.3 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 14.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.09
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.473 / 0.481
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.68 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Average freeboard: 13.91 ft / 4.24 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 124.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94.1 %
Waterplane Area: 18,930 Square feet or 1,759 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 133 lbs/sq ft or 650 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 2.00
- Overall: 1.02
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Now what was even weirder was that when I reloaded the sim and reentered the belt heights, I suddenly gained a little bit of weight when reentering the main belt height and the upper belt height. ???
QuoteThe BC is legal under our rules
The guideline is:
Quote0.38 is the absolute minimum. Coefficients should be reflective of the size and speed of the vessel.
I would probably look at armament as well, And considering that you are aiming at the maximum you can get out of the machinery that is allowed under our tech rules, I guess you are most likely looking at a minimum of at least 0.55 and maybe even more (although that is a bit of a guess).
Quoteand the free board is literally clicked Flush Deck and rounded to even numbers.
That is weird because when I hit "Flush Deck", I get 23.1, 18.9 and 14.7 as values which I would round to 23, 19 and 15 and not 21, 17 amd 13...
IDK, I did something on that sim that has it all fucked up, so I deleted it and started over cause it was doing WEIRD stuff (like constantly deleting the drive... and I couldn't figure out why). Decided best to just start from scratch and try to get it right instead of spending hours pounding my head against something that was seriously broken. Newer version, sorta meh honestly although I did take logis advice on the belt. Truth told I could proly trim another 300 tons off it fairly easy, but as you said I am basically what I consider the low end on BC (I don't like going under a .500 for anything bigger than a DD), Honestly at this point I would expect them to have troubled careers, somewhat like what happened with the brit large light cruisers LOL. Freeboard on this version is "I liked the line" (aka it would be easy to draw)
AFX-1904, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
8,800 t light; 9,235 t standard; 10,012 t normal; 10,634 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(441.00 ft / 441.00 ft) x 67.00 ft x (24.00 / 25.11 ft)
(134.42 m / 134.42 m) x 20.42 m x (7.32 / 7.65 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
14 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
14 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 4,416 lbs / 2,003 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 351.00 ft / 106.98 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 90.00 ft / 27.43 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Main Belt covers 122 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 5.00" / 127 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 6.00" / 152 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 25,597 ihp / 19,095 Kw = 22.79 kts
Range 6,260nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,398 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
499 - 650
Cost:
£1.081 million / $4.326 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 813 tons, 8.1 %
- Guns: 813 tons, 8.1 %
Armour: 1,552 tons, 15.5 %
- Belts: 523 tons, 5.2 %
- Armament: 449 tons, 4.5 %
- Armour Deck: 520 tons, 5.2 %
- Conning Tower: 60 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 2,682 tons, 26.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,440 tons, 34.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,212 tons, 12.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 313 tons, 3.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 313 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,296 lbs / 2,856 Kg = 9.5 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 15.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.15
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.494 / 0.502
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.58 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forward deck: 45.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m, 12.50 ft / 3.81 m
- Average freeboard: 14.84 ft / 4.52 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 122.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106.5 %
Waterplane Area: 19,584 Square feet or 1,819 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 633 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.91
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
I like her, but the casemated Secondary Battery STILL has no protection... :o
Throwing out everything but the essentials, I can get it down to 8282 light and 23 knots. So here it is the new shiny version.
AFX_1904, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
8,282 t light; 8,706 t standard; 9,427 t normal; 10,004 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(441.00 ft / 441.00 ft) x 64.00 ft x (23.00 / 24.07 ft)
(134.42 m / 134.42 m) x 19.51 m x (7.01 / 7.34 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
14 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 4,416 lbs / 2,003 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 441.00 ft / 134.42 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 5.00" / 127 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 25,600 ihp / 19,098 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,298 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
477 - 621
Cost:
£1.063 million / $4.254 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 803 tons, 8.5 %
- Guns: 803 tons, 8.5 %
Armour: 1,479 tons, 15.7 %
- Belts: 490 tons, 5.2 %
- Armament: 463 tons, 4.9 %
- Armour Deck: 497 tons, 5.3 %
- Conning Tower: 29 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,682 tons, 28.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,281 tons, 34.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,145 tons, 12.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 37 tons, 0.4 %
- On freeboard deck: 37 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
5,308 lbs / 2,408 Kg = 8.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 14.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.508 / 0.515
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.89 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 14.37 ft / 4.38 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 129.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 103.6 %
Waterplane Area: 18,946 Square feet or 1,760 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 625 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.78
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
So I know I post alot of ships but I have managed to narrow down my next big girl to 2 proposals... both are 17K tons, both hit 23 knots... Hope yall can help me decide which one to use. this is proposal A, basically lion shrunk to 81% of her original size with 11" instead of 13.5" guns, yes the "casemates" are unarmoured but looking at OTL lion I think they were more like deck mounts than casemates (and I could use some of the misc weight to give them splinter shields I suppose).
AF-1904-A, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
17,000 t light; 17,682 t standard; 18,751 t normal; 19,606 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(570.50 ft / 570.50 ft) x 71.75 ft x (29.00 / 30.04 ft)
(173.89 m / 173.89 m) x 21.87 m x (8.84 / 9.16 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck aft
16 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,808 lbs / 2,634 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 425.00 ft / 129.54 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 145.00 ft / 44.20 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 405.06 ft / 123.46 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 8.50" / 216 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 35,915 ihp / 26,792 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 5,610nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,924 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
800 - 1,041
Cost:
£1.843 million / $7.372 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,057 tons, 5.6 %
- Guns: 1,057 tons, 5.6 %
Armour: 4,743 tons, 25.3 %
- Belts: 2,133 tons, 11.4 %
- Armament: 1,061 tons, 5.7 %
- Armour Deck: 1,397 tons, 7.4 %
- Conning Tower: 152 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 5,154 tons, 27.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,659 tons, 30.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,751 tons, 9.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 388 tons, 2.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 388 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
13,879 lbs / 6,295 Kg = 20.9 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 15.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.78
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.54
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.553 / 0.558
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.95 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.89 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 19.60 %, 26.00 ft / 7.92 m, 22.50 ft / 6.86 m
- Forward deck: 45.60 %, 22.50 ft / 6.86 m, 20.50 ft / 6.25 m
- Aft deck: 18.70 %, 12.50 ft / 3.81 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarter deck: 16.10 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Average freeboard: 19.09 ft / 5.82 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129.3 %
Waterplane Area: 28,647 Square feet or 2,661 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 658 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.55
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Proposal B (which is honestly proly a better ship) has heavier armour (and I armoured the casemates), but a lower freeboard think shrunk Lion with a Flush deck.
AF-1904-B, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
17,000 t light; 17,682 t standard; 18,751 t normal; 19,606 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(570.50 ft / 570.50 ft) x 71.75 ft x (29.00 / 30.05 ft)
(173.89 m / 173.89 m) x 21.87 m x (8.84 / 9.16 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck aft
16 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,808 lbs / 2,634 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 424.00 ft / 129.24 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 146.00 ft / 44.50 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 405.06 ft / 123.46 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 114 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 8.50" / 216 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 35,913 ihp / 26,791 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 5,610nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,924 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
800 - 1,041
Cost:
£1.843 million / $7.372 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,057 tons, 5.6 %
- Guns: 1,057 tons, 5.6 %
Armour: 5,062 tons, 27.0 %
- Belts: 2,486 tons, 13.3 %
- Armament: 977 tons, 5.2 %
- Armour Deck: 1,448 tons, 7.7 %
- Conning Tower: 152 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 5,153 tons, 27.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,340 tons, 28.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,751 tons, 9.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 388 tons, 2.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 388 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12,466 lbs / 5,654 Kg = 18.7 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 15.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.30
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.553 / 0.558
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.95 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.89 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 19.60 %, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forward deck: 45.60 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Aft deck: 18.70 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarter deck: 16.10 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Average freeboard: 15.98 ft / 4.87 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 103.2 %
Waterplane Area: 28,644 Square feet or 2,661 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 132 lbs/sq ft or 646 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.30
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Quoteyes the "casemates" are unarmoured but looking at OTL lion I think they were more like deck mounts than casemates
My book shows them to be clearly armored casemates, but fails to mention how thick thin it is... probably as much as you have on the second design.
QuoteDimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(570.50 ft x 71.75 ft x (29.00 / 30.05 ft)
(173.89 m x 21.87 m x (8.84 / 9.16 m)
Did you have shipyards for that ship ?
Well, looking at the H2/1903 report, you get the impression that the Dutch don't have anything to build their ships...
... but at least it shows the initial population calculations for China. ;D
@ Jef I have one dock and one slip that could take them, but I can shorten them a touch and widen em a touch and they fit on 557'
@ Walter >:( DAMMIT I thought I got that fixed (and I openly admit I shamelessly stole your report). None of my books give the actual armour on Lion's casemates... although I like you figure in the 2" range is proly appropriate. I could ditch a little misc weight on the lion clone and add it, although personally even though the lion one would be effin gorgeous, think the heavier armour on the flush Decker would proly be better.
So while the big kids are getting all the attention, they wont be my only projects in the upcoming naval bill. Also on the list is a new "Light Cruiser". Not sure this is legal even the BC is LOW IMHO... That said I based it loosely on the OTL Kolberg class of the German Navy (circa WW1). I came in at 4299 normal and they were supposedly 4293 long tons according to my data sources, so I am 6 tons heavier on the same basic hull.
CLX-1904, Unified Netherlands Light Cruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
3,500 t light; 3,616 t standard; 4,299 t normal; 4,846 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(426.50 ft / 426.50 ft) x 45.90 ft x (17.70 / 19.25 ft)
(130.00 m / 130.00 m) x 13.99 m x (5.39 / 5.87 m)
Armament:
4 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1904 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 360 lbs / 163 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
Forecastle: 0.75" / 19 mm Quarter deck: 0.75" / 19 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.90" / 99 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 17,795 shp / 13,275 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 3,500nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,230 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
265 - 345
Cost:
£0.353 million / $1.412 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 76 tons, 1.8 %
- Guns: 76 tons, 1.8 %
Armour: 392 tons, 9.1 %
- Armament: 44 tons, 1.0 %
- Armour Deck: 326 tons, 7.6 %
- Conning Tower: 22 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 1,468 tons, 34.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,498 tons, 34.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 799 tons, 18.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 66 tons, 1.5 %
- Hull above water: 41 tons
- On freeboard deck: 25 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4,448 lbs / 2,018 Kg = 139.0 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 11.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.18
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.434 / 0.450
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.29 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.65 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 38
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 18.50 ft / 5.64 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.50 ft / 5.64 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Aft deck: 45.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 18.50 ft / 5.64 m
- Average freeboard: 17.62 ft / 5.37 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 117.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153.3 %
Waterplane Area: 12,330 Square feet or 1,145 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 68 lbs/sq ft or 331 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.90
- Longitudinal: 2.34
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Seems pretty capable to me, and I think the BC is okay.
Well balanced 3500t cruiser, but ...
OTL German use small 105mm guns, did you have bigger guns?
;)
Jef I have currently in my inventory the 4/45 and a 6/45. Current Dutch naval thinking says the 6/45 has to slow a RoF to be useful against TBs and small cruisers (hence not using it on the Armoured Frigates), as such the Commonalty of ammo between the new AFs and the new CLs is viewed as a plus for extended deployments (aka basically anywhere in my far flung empire).
That said I went with 4/45 and 6/45 to give myself an excuse to eventually switch completely to 5 inch guns. The time for that switch just hasn't arrived yet, but they can be refit with a full 5/45 battery to replace the 4/45s eventually.
Quote from: Jefgte on April 19, 2016, 03:27:21 PM
Well balanced 3500t cruiser, but ...
OTL German use small 105mm guns, did you have bigger guns?
;)
Quote from: Tanthalas on April 17, 2016, 11:40:37 AMthis is proposal A, basically lion shrunk to 81% of her original size with 11" instead of 13.5" guns, yes the "casemates" are unarmoured but looking at OTL lion I think they were more like deck mounts than casemates (and I could use some of the misc weight to give them splinter shields I suppose).
In the past my rule of thumb was that casemate armor was the same as the gun it protected (i.e. a 6-inch gun would have a 6-inch casemate, a 3-inch gun a 3-inch casemate, etc). A 57mm would still have a 3-inch casemate as less is dangerous.
I looked up casemate armor for "Lion". Preston's BATTLESHIPS OF WORLD WAR ONE had nothing but Breyer's book surprised me - It says they had NO armor. You have to think at least an inch to give the crew some protection but not enough to keep out more that MG rounds and splinters...
and here is yet another version of said ship. Honestly the best one so far, and honestly I had no intention of designing it LOL. Started out as a "create a unique looking 11/45 twin" and ended up with a whole freaking ship... the hull casemates are an intentional mistake honestly, and the drawing is almost finished (it is Honestly very very sexy)
HNMS Leeuw (Lion), Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
16,500 t light; 17,195 t standard; 18,295 t normal; 19,175 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(550.50 ft / 550.50 ft) x 71.75 ft x (29.00 / 30.11 ft)
(167.79 m / 167.79 m) x 21.87 m x (8.84 / 9.18 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
23 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
22 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
1 hull mount in casemate- Limited use in all but light seas
2 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6,078 lbs / 2,757 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 422.00 ft / 128.63 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 128.50 ft / 39.17 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 353.00 ft / 107.59 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 118 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 35,924 ihp / 26,799 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 5,935nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,981 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
786 - 1,022
Cost:
£1.840 million / $7.359 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,119 tons, 6.1 %
- Guns: 1,119 tons, 6.1 %
Armour: 4,761 tons, 26.0 %
- Belts: 2,236 tons, 12.2 %
- Armament: 970 tons, 5.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,405 tons, 7.7 %
- Conning Tower: 150 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 5,155 tons, 28.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,078 tons, 27.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,795 tons, 9.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 387 tons, 2.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 387 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11,234 lbs / 5,096 Kg = 16.9 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 15.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.24
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.559 / 0.564
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.46 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 19.60 %, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forward deck: 31.68 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Aft deck: 32.62 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarter deck: 16.10 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Average freeboard: 15.56 ft / 4.74 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 117.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.5 %
Waterplane Area: 27,799 Square feet or 2,583 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 89 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 132 lbs/sq ft or 645 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.35
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Quotethe hull casemates are an intentional mistake honestly,
Well, with that low freeboard, it is to be expected that you get the "Limited use in all but light seas". I think any lower gives you the "Limited use in any seas" remark.
Quoteand the drawing is almost finished (it is Honestly very very sexy)
That is all a matter of opinion. Some people like Picasso but I think it is garbage. :)
... and I doubt it can beat the looks of the pic I created for a Wesworld carrier. But then, that is my opinion. :D
Liner/Troopship, since everyone is coming up with one (ok ok so it is just Spain atm but I can see it coming). it gives me great pleasure to introduce the Dutch proposal.
Koningin Wilhelmina van Nederland, Unified Netherlands Passenger Liner laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
18,000 t light; 18,483 t standard; 24,152 t normal; 28,687 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(666.50 ft / 655.00 ft) x 65.75 ft x (31.00 / 35.89 ft)
(203.15 m / 199.64 m) x 20.04 m x (9.45 / 10.94 m)
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 37,399 ihp / 27,900 Kw = 22.50 kts
Range 4,000nm at 22.30 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 10,204 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
968 - 1,259
Cost:
£1.389 million / $5.555 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 5,420 tons, 22.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,455 tons, 22.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,152 tons, 25.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 7,125 tons, 29.5 %
- Hull below water: 3,000 tons
- Hull above water: 3,000 tons
- On freeboard deck: 1,100 tons
- Above deck: 25 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
24,313 lbs / 11,028 Kg = 225.1 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 14.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.633 / 0.650
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.96 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.59 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 11.50 ft / 3.51 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 33.00 ft / 10.06 m, 29.50 ft / 8.99 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 29.50 ft / 8.99 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Aft deck: 33.25 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Quarter deck: 16.75 %, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m, 27.50 ft / 8.38 m
- Average freeboard: 24.09 ft / 7.34 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137.4 %
Waterplane Area: 32,488 Square feet or 3,018 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 134 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 95 lbs/sq ft or 463 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.48
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily
7125 tons Misc Weight
25 Tons Long Range Wireless
Passengers
1,506 Passengers total
206 First Class
226 Second class
1,074 Third Class
Remaining weight Cargo
Quoteok ok so it is just Spain atm but I can see it coming
I can already tell you that I have plans but won't post them until 1905 (when I lay them down and have the tech rolls). I currently have plans for 19 passenger vessels. :D
3K ton version of the light cruiser project. Same basic idea, just managed to scrunch it 500 tons and maintain a 7 gun broadside. might look a bit to modern for the period (given nothing was using the all centerline layout yet that I can find)
CLX-1904, Unified Netherlands Second Class Cruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
3,000 t light; 3,089 t standard; 3,586 t normal; 3,984 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(395.29 ft / 386.50 ft) x 39.50 ft x (17.50 / 18.91 ft)
(120.49 m / 117.81 m) x 12.04 m x (5.33 / 5.76 m)
Armament:
7 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1904 Model
7 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 210 lbs / 95 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.25" / 6 mm 0.25" / 6 mm 0.25" / 6 mm
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
Forecastle: 0.50" / 13 mm Quarter deck: 0.50" / 13 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,544 shp / 14,580 Kw = 25.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 895 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
231 - 301
Cost:
£0.350 million / $1.400 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 62 tons, 1.7 %
- Guns: 62 tons, 1.7 %
Armour: 277 tons, 7.7 %
- Armament: 11 tons, 0.3 %
- Armour Deck: 251 tons, 7.0 %
- Conning Tower: 15 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,594 tons, 44.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,038 tons, 28.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 586 tons, 16.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 29 tons, 0.8 %
- On freeboard deck: 29 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,778 lbs / 806 Kg = 55.6 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
Metacentric height 1.9 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 12.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 83 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.26
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.470 / 0.483
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.78 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.66 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.75 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 14.20 %, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forward deck: 34.40 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
- Aft deck: 37.20 %, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m, 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Quarter deck: 14.20 %, 10.00 ft / 3.05 m, 11.50 ft / 3.51 m
- Average freeboard: 13.20 ft / 4.02 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 149.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.4 %
Waterplane Area: 9,900 Square feet or 920 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 62 lbs/sq ft or 303 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.53
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
This is just my opinion, but even though the previous one is 500 tons more expensive I like it more due to the casemate guns. The 3,000 ton also gets penalty points from me due to it being 0.49 m over the maximum size of the Type 1 slip/dock. :)
The Morgantown class has all centerline, but only 4 guns.
@snip Yeah but that was like literally the only class (that I can find anyway) and as you said only 4 guns
So Walter you would prefer this version I take it... I shouldn't post this cause I have literally no idea how to draw it but here it is 3K tons with 8 gun broadside (4X centerline aBXy 4 casemates on either side at deck level)
CLX-1904, Unified Netherlands Second Class Cruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
3,000 t light; 3,102 t standard; 3,600 t normal; 3,999 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(395.29 ft / 386.50 ft) x 39.50 ft x (17.50 / 18.91 ft)
(120.49 m / 117.81 m) x 12.04 m x (5.33 / 5.76 m)
Armament:
4 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1904 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 360 lbs / 163 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.50" / 13 mm 0.25" / 6 mm 0.25" / 6 mm
2nd: 0.50" / 13 mm 0.25" / 6 mm -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
Forecastle: 0.50" / 13 mm Quarter deck: 0.50" / 13 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,608 shp / 14,627 Kw = 25.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 897 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
232 - 302
Cost:
£0.353 million / $1.413 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 82 tons, 2.3 %
- Guns: 82 tons, 2.3 %
Armour: 282 tons, 7.8 %
- Armament: 16 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 251 tons, 7.0 %
- Conning Tower: 15 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,596 tons, 44.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,013 tons, 28.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 600 tons, 16.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 27 tons, 0.8 %
- On freeboard deck: 27 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,791 lbs / 812 Kg = 56.0 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 11.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 78 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.24
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.472 / 0.485
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.78 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.66 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.75 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 14.20 %, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forward deck: 34.40 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Aft deck: 37.20 %, 10.00 ft / 3.05 m, 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Quarter deck: 14.20 %, 10.00 ft / 3.05 m, 11.50 ft / 3.51 m
- Average freeboard: 12.85 ft / 3.92 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 150.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.1 %
Waterplane Area: 9,918 Square feet or 921 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 62 lbs/sq ft or 302 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.51
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
You could go for an arrangement like the Tacoma's have . 7 guns, five centerline and two wing.
Have played around with that as well.
Quote from: snip on June 08, 2016, 07:05:23 PM
You could go for an arrangement like the Tacoma's have . 7 guns, five centerline and two wing.
Why 102 mm guns? They are useless ))
Are they, proly... Would we know that, Proly not. the 4" range was the most popular light cruiser /BB secondary gun in this period, the Germans used 4.1" the Brits used 4" heck the US used a 3" on the Chester class scout Cruisers (admittedly with a 5"). Point being that "in period" 4" isn't out of line (actually it is relatively normal)... Heck the Brits only went 6" cause their 4" was out ranged by the German 4.1".
All that said I have every intention of refitting all my 4" ships with 4.7" or 5" guns eventually, but that time isn't here yet (I try hard not to let hindsight get the better of me).
Quote from: olekit24 on June 09, 2016, 12:33:09 AM
Why 102 mm guns? They are useless ))
and the IDK I don't think I like it version... better firepower, Fits in a type 1 but... had to delete the hoists on the 4" to make it work... but on the plus side I got a 6" at either end.
CLX-1904, Unified Netherlands Second Class Cruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
3,000 t light; 3,103 t standard; 3,601 t normal; 4,000 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(393.00 ft / 386.50 ft) x 39.00 ft x (17.50 / 18.92 ft)
(119.79 m / 117.81 m) x 11.89 m x (5.33 / 5.77 m)
Armament:
2 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1904 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
5 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.28lbs / 14.64kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
3 raised mounts - superfiring
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
Weight of broadside 361 lbs / 164 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.25" / 6 mm 0.25" / 6 mm 0.25" / 6 mm
2nd: 0.20" / 5 mm 0.10" / 3 mm -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
Forecastle: 0.50" / 13 mm Quarter deck: 0.50" / 13 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,634 shp / 14,647 Kw = 25.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 897 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
232 - 302
Cost:
£0.357 million / $1.427 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 87 tons, 2.4 %
- Guns: 87 tons, 2.4 %
Armour: 272 tons, 7.6 %
- Armament: 7 tons, 0.2 %
- Armour Deck: 249 tons, 6.9 %
- Conning Tower: 15 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,595 tons, 44.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,022 tons, 28.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 601 tons, 16.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 25 tons, 0.7 %
- On freeboard deck: 25 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,759 lbs / 798 Kg = 16.3 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 11.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.478 / 0.491
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.91 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.66 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.34 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 14.20 %, 21.50 ft / 6.55 m, 17.50 ft / 5.33 m
- Forward deck: 46.60 %, 17.50 ft / 5.33 m, 9.50 ft / 2.90 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 9.50 ft / 2.90 m, 9.50 ft / 2.90 m
- Quarter deck: 14.20 %, 9.50 ft / 2.90 m, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
- Average freeboard: 12.83 ft / 3.91 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 150.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.8 %
Waterplane Area: 9,845 Square feet or 915 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 63 lbs/sq ft or 306 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.52
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
and now for the WTF version... Seriously how did I make this work... Checked everything multiple times it is all there, based loosely on a couple OTL ships and it somehow works... Unless someone sees a glaring error I will likely build this...
CLX-1904, Unified Netherlands Second Class Cruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
3,000 t light; 3,104 t standard; 3,391 t normal; 3,621 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(383.00 ft / 380.00 ft) x 39.10 ft x (15.50 / 16.30 ft)
(116.74 m / 115.82 m) x 11.92 m x (4.72 / 4.97 m)
Armament:
2 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1904 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1904 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 440 lbs / 200 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.50" / 13 mm 0.25" / 6 mm 0.25" / 6 mm
2nd: 0.25" / 6 mm 0.25" / 6 mm 0.25" / 6 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
Forecastle: 0.50" / 13 mm Quarter deck: 0.50" / 13 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,353 shp / 14,437 Kw = 25.00 kts
Range 3,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 516 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
221 - 288
Cost:
£0.363 million / $1.453 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 129 tons, 3.8 %
- Guns: 129 tons, 3.8 %
Armour: 274 tons, 8.1 %
- Armament: 17 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 242 tons, 7.1 %
- Conning Tower: 15 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,520 tons, 44.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,023 tons, 30.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 391 tons, 11.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 54 tons, 1.6 %
- Hull below water: 16 tons
- Hull above water: 11 tons
- On freeboard deck: 27 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,507 lbs / 683 Kg = 14.0 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 12.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.29
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak, raised quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.515 / 0.523
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.72 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.49 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 8.54 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 18.50 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 18.50 ft / 5.64 m
- Forward deck: 11.10 %, 18.50 ft / 5.64 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Aft deck: 52.00 %, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Quarter deck: 18.40 %, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
- Average freeboard: 14.06 ft / 4.28 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 158.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102.7 %
Waterplane Area: 10,040 Square feet or 933 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 86 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 63 lbs/sq ft or 306 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.67
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
So I thought to myself "Self since you are asking for opinions on 2 ships and you gave both an extensive reworking, you should put them both up for people to look at". So here they are the 14K ton 21 knot version (formerly 15.5K ton) and the 12.5K version (formerly 12K ton). Both are actually very nice ships, but I can only build one or the other... although as close as I got them in tonnage I cant honestly say the 12.5K is better anymore.
First off the 14K ton ship (I could honestly proly get it to 13.5K tons with some acceptable tweaks like a slight reduction in armour)
AF-03-1904-2, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
14,000 t light; 14,645 t standard; 15,807 t normal; 16,736 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(520.00 ft / 520.00 ft) x 71.75 ft x (27.00 / 28.25 ft)
(158.50 m / 158.50 m) x 21.87 m x (8.23 / 8.61 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
23 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
22 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
1 hull mount in casemate- Limited use in all but light seas
2 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6,078 lbs / 2,757 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 338.00 ft / 103.02 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 182.00 ft / 55.47 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 5.00" / 127 mm 338.00 ft / 103.02 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 23,659 ihp / 17,650 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,091 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
704 - 916
Cost:
£1.378 million / $5.510 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,103 tons, 7.0 %
- Guns: 1,103 tons, 7.0 %
Armour: 5,308 tons, 33.6 %
- Belts: 2,859 tons, 18.1 %
- Armament: 970 tons, 6.1 %
- Armour Deck: 1,315 tons, 8.3 %
- Conning Tower: 163 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 2,479 tons, 15.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,680 tons, 29.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,807 tons, 11.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 431 tons, 2.7 %
- Hull below water: 28 tons
- Hull above water: 128 tons
- On freeboard deck: 275 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
16,674 lbs / 7,563 Kg = 25.1 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 15.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.39
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.549 / 0.556
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.25 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.80 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 19.60 %, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forward deck: 31.68 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Aft deck: 32.62 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarter deck: 16.10 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 15.60 ft / 4.75 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.9 %
Waterplane Area: 26,013 Square feet or 2,417 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 133 lbs/sq ft or 649 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.51
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
and the 12.5K version
AFX-1904-1, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
12,500 t light; 13,119 t standard; 14,506 t normal; 15,615 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(519.00 ft / 519.00 ft) x 71.75 ft x (26.00 / 27.53 ft)
(158.19 m / 158.19 m) x 21.87 m x (7.92 / 8.39 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
23 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
22 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
1 hull mount in casemate- Limited use in all but light seas
2 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6,078 lbs / 2,757 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 337.00 ft / 102.72 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 182.00 ft / 55.47 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 5.00" / 127 mm 337.00 ft / 102.72 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 18,601 shp / 13,876 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 7,200nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,496 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
660 - 859
Cost:
£1.193 million / $4.772 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,121 tons, 7.7 %
- Guns: 1,121 tons, 7.7 %
Armour: 4,882 tons, 33.7 %
- Belts: 2,501 tons, 17.2 %
- Armament: 970 tons, 6.7 %
- Armour Deck: 1,283 tons, 8.8 %
- Conning Tower: 128 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,535 tons, 10.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,549 tons, 31.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,006 tons, 13.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 414 tons, 2.9 %
- Hull below water: 14 tons
- Hull above water: 125 tons
- On freeboard deck: 275 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
18,766 lbs / 8,512 Kg = 28.2 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 15.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.40
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.524 / 0.533
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.23 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.78 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 19.60 %, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forward deck: 31.68 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Aft deck: 32.62 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarter deck: 16.10 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Average freeboard: 15.64 ft / 4.77 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 69.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106.0 %
Waterplane Area: 25,374 Square feet or 2,357 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 654 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.56
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
14000t & 12500t - 4T2x279 - 20 & 21 kts...
hmmm, not enough differences.
Made a mix & build 1 class with a 170m hull...
Jef ;)
Between the two I would prefer the 14 kton version. Mostly because the 12.5 kton version seems to be dangerously thin due to low Cb and beam. I also prefer it because the lower armor of armor makes the 12.5 kton version less future-proof.
Considering that it is a potential adversary, would it not be better that you try to convince him to build the 12.5 kton less future-proof vessel instead of the 14 kton version? :D
Per Jefs request Bred the 2 on a 550' hull (sorry Jef couldn't get to 170 meters best I could do was 167.64). Came out rather interesting actually LOL. Interesting side effect of this version... from the side it would look identical to the 17K fast version... YAY for not having to make another drawing. So without further grandstanding here it is, the new improved 14K ton version (Note it even has a name).
HNLMS De Zeven Provincien, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
14,000 t light; 14,650 t standard; 15,827 t normal; 16,768 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(550.00 ft / 550.00 ft) x 72.50 ft x (26.00 / 27.20 ft)
(167.64 m / 167.64 m) x 22.10 m x (7.92 / 8.29 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
23 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.27lbs / 14.64kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
22 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
1 hull mount in casemate- Limited use in all but light seas
2 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6,130 lbs / 2,781 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 353.00 ft / 107.59 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 197.00 ft / 60.05 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 5.00" / 127 mm 353.00 ft / 107.59 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 23,201 ihp / 17,308 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,118 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
705 - 917
Cost:
£1.371 million / $5.484 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,104 tons, 7.0 %
- Guns: 1,104 tons, 7.0 %
Armour: 5,136 tons, 32.4 %
- Belts: 2,618 tons, 16.5 %
- Armament: 969 tons, 6.1 %
- Armour Deck: 1,386 tons, 8.8 %
- Conning Tower: 163 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 2,431 tons, 15.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,922 tons, 31.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,827 tons, 11.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 407 tons, 2.6 %
- Hull below water: 28 tons
- Hull above water: 104 tons
- On freeboard deck: 275 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17,296 lbs / 7,845 Kg = 26.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 15.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.31
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.534 / 0.541
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.59 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 19.60 %, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forward deck: 31.68 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Aft deck: 32.62 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarter deck: 16.10 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Average freeboard: 15.56 ft / 4.74 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 107.3 %
Waterplane Area: 27,423 Square feet or 2,548 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 653 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.33
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
150 rounds seems light for the 4" guns.
What would you think was reasonable? I went with 150 cause it was "standard" for SS3, would 250 be reasonable, 350, 500?
I only ask because I can go basically anywhere in that range with minimal changes.
Quote from: snip on June 19, 2016, 10:37:10 AM
150 rounds seems light for the 4" guns.
I've been using 250 for 5" guns and 550 for 57mm. Now that is pre-GMI, so my thinking might change on the first true ships with that battle experience behind them.
I went with 350 in the "current version". Waiting for any other recommendations before I post it.
Well, looking on Navweaps at the various guns around 4" and taken into service prior to 1910...
Germany 10.5 cm/40 (4.1") SK L/35 (1894)
- Kurfüst Friedrich Wilhelm: 100 as commissioned, later 145
Germany 10.5 cm/40 (4.1") SK L/40 (1900)
- Early Gazelle class: 100 rounds
- Later Gazelle class, Bremen, Königsberg and Dresden: 150 rounds
- Tiger: 241 rounds
Germany 10.5 cm/45 (4.1") SK L/45, SK C/06, Flak L/45, Tbts L/45, Ubts L/45 (1907)
1907 to 1918
- Cruisers: 150 rounds (later increased to 183)
- G96 and V170 Destroyers: 80 rounds
- V25 Destroyers (as rearmed): 70 rounds
- B97 Destroyers (as rearmed): 80 rounds
- Submarines: Between 100 and 250 rounds
Britain 4"/50 (10.2 cm) BL Mark VII (1908)
- Indomitable (as rearmed) and Indefatigable: 100 rounds
- Bellerophon: 200 rounds
- St. Vincent: 150 rounds (peace), 200 rounds (war)
- Colossus, Neptune, Orion, Queen Mary, Lion and King George V: 150 rounds
- Others: N/A
Britain 4"/40 (10.2 cm) QF Marks I, II and III (1896)
- Invincible: 100 rounds
- Others: N/A
... so even a value as low as 100 would probably be deemed acceptable by naval planners of around 1905...
*head smack* I didn't even think about hitting navweps... oh well they are floating ammo lockers atm then (I will proly go back to 150 per gun)
so Logis 12.5K BC got me thinking (and messing around with Spring sharp) this is what said ship would look like in Dutch Livery, actually came out really nice IMHO. I wont be building it (just doesn't have a spot in my fleet plans even though I like it) but I thought I should post it up in case it gave someone else ideas. although I will admit if I had come up with it sooner it would likely have been built in place of my 16.5K BC.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
12,500 t light; 13,047 t standard; 14,224 t normal; 15,166 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(481.00 ft / 476.00 ft) x 70.00 ft x (29.00 / 30.46 ft)
(146.61 m / 145.08 m) x 21.34 m x (8.84 / 9.29 m)
Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
23 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
22 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
1 hull mount in casemate- Limited use in all but light seas
2 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4,746 lbs / 2,153 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 407.00 ft / 124.05 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 69.00 ft / 21.03 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Main Belt covers 132 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 2.25" / 57 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
2nd: 2.25" / 57 mm - -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.25" / 6 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.25" / 32 mm Quarter deck: 1.25" / 32 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 32,213 ihp / 24,031 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 7,700nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,118 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
650 - 846
Cost:
£1.500 million / $5.999 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 859 tons, 6.0 %
- Guns: 859 tons, 6.0 %
Armour: 2,702 tons, 19.0 %
- Belts: 1,228 tons, 8.6 %
- Armament: 594 tons, 4.2 %
- Armour Deck: 779 tons, 5.5 %
- Conning Tower: 101 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 4,622 tons, 32.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,038 tons, 28.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,724 tons, 12.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 279 tons, 2.0 %
- On freeboard deck: 279 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
7,316 lbs / 3,318 Kg = 11.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 14.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.22
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.515 / 0.523
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.82 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 11.76 degrees
Stern overhang: -7.00 ft / -2.13 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 19.60 %, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Aft deck: 34.30 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarter deck: 16.10 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Average freeboard: 15.59 ft / 4.75 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 131.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 95.0 %
Waterplane Area: 22,511 Square feet or 2,091 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 126 lbs/sq ft or 617 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.86
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
For anyone who is interested... this is what both the 14K and 16.5K ships look like (there is only a 6" difference in length, although I have drawn both). Came out rather nice IMHO, possibly a bit modern looking but I think I struck a reasonable balance on it.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/AF-1904-5-flush_zpsqrt1wj1w.png) (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/AF-1904-5-flush_zpsqrt1wj1w.png)
(Click to see full size)
Nice drawing.
She is looking like a short HMS Lion :)
Built to Civilian Standard (I think) Merchant Ship/Freighter/Transport/Collier. Not very sexy IMHO but it is something I need at least a few of. 4000 tons light so if I have the rules right would only cost me $1.00 and 1 BP per hull. I intend to build at least 6 of them as troop transports (would give me enough lift to move 1 Division aka 25000 men). Based loosely on the OTL Victory/Liberty ships.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
12,334 t light; 12,625 t standard; 13,706 t normal; 14,571 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(462.43 ft / 441.00 ft) x 62.00 ft x (28.00 / 29.50 ft)
(140.95 m / 134.42 m) x 18.90 m x (8.53 / 8.99 m)
Armament:
2 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1904 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 200 lbs / 91 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 0.50" / 13 mm 0.50" / 13 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 1 shaft, 6,630 ihp / 4,946 Kw = 15.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,946 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
633 - 823
Cost:
£0.587 million / $2.347 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 58 tons, 0.4 %
- Guns: 58 tons, 0.4 %
Armour: 11 tons, 0.1 %
- Armament: 11 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 961 tons, 7.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,809 tons, 20.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,372 tons, 10.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 8,496 tons, 62.0 %
- Hull below water: 4,167 tons
- Hull above water: 4,167 tons
- On freeboard deck: 162 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15,148 lbs / 6,871 Kg = 140.3 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 13.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.627 / 0.632
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.11 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 34 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 38
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.55 degrees
Stern overhang: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 8.20 %, 30.50 ft / 9.30 m, 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Forward deck: 41.80 %, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Aft deck: 41.80 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Quarter deck: 8.20 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Average freeboard: 19.56 ft / 5.96 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 112.1 %
Waterplane Area: 20,137 Square feet or 1,871 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 84 lbs/sq ft or 412 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.04
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Built to Civilian Standards
Misc Weight
8334 tons Transport Capacity
25 tons long range wireless
137 tons "stuff" (aka I got no clue what it is at this point)
Don't forget...
QuoteMiscellaneous weight set aside for troop or passenger quarters, boats, aircraft/hangers/elevators/flight decks, wireless, fire control, and other components is considered functional miscellaneous weight and is included in the cost of construction.
... so if you want the design to move troops, you can't subtract the miscellaneous weights or (and that is something the mods will need to tell us if that is allowed) do what I talked about with someone (I believe with Darman in the chat) and that is to build it like that (with non-functional miscellaneous weight) and with an overhaul or a refit turn the miscellaneous weights from non-functional into functional so it can be used as a troop transport.
Quoteaka I got no clue what it is at this point
A stall aboard the ship where people can buy Gouda cheese. ;D
My thought was to build several of them as "freighters" and then convert some of them to troop ships (much as was done with the Liberty/Victory ships OTL). So more or less along the lines of your "or" point. If that is a no go I will have to reconsider my plans. in the plan for the conversions the 137 tons would be for extra boats/landing craft (much like the APAs the US built in WW2).
Quote from: Walter on July 06, 2016, 11:45:40 AM
Don't forget...
QuoteMiscellaneous weight set aside for troop or passenger quarters, boats, aircraft/hangers/elevators/flight decks, wireless, fire control, and other components is considered functional miscellaneous weight and is included in the cost of construction.
... so if you want the design to move troops, you can't subtract the miscellaneous weights or (and that is something the mods will need to tell us if that is allowed) do what I talked about with someone (I believe with Darman in the chat) and that is to build it like that (with non-functional miscellaneous weight) and with an overhaul or a refit turn the miscellaneous weights from non-functional into functional so it can be used as a troop transport.
Quoteaka I got no clue what it is at this point
A stall aboard the ship where people can buy Gouda cheese. ;D
Quote from: Tanthalas on June 12, 2016, 08:25:49 AM
and now for the WTF version... Seriously how did I make this work... Checked everything multiple times it is all there, based loosely on a couple OTL ships and it somehow works... Unless someone sees a glaring error I will likely build this...
CLX-1904, Unified Netherlands Second Class Cruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
3,000 t light; 3,104 t standard; 3,391 t normal; 3,621 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(383.00 ft / 380.00 ft) x 39.10 ft x (15.50 / 16.30 ft)
(116.74 m / 115.82 m) x 11.92 m x (4.72 / 4.97 m)
....
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,353 shp / 14,437 Kw = 25.00 kts
Range 3,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 516 tons (90% coal)
....
I noticed that your ship has a beam of 11.92m despite having 4 shafts. As far as I could tell the thinnest ship with 4 shafts OTL was the Konigsberg (1905) at 13.2m. Since you mentioned checking it against OTL ships, do you know of an even thinner ship with 4 shafts?
There is a Destroyer Logi, I will have to find it again (may have been a series of DDs cant remember, but it is in one of my books)
Ok I went through my books here ya go the ones that are similar.
Arethusa class Cruiser 4 shafts on 39'/11.9 meter
Cricket Class Destroyer 3 shafts on 17.5'/5.3 meter
Swift Class Flotilla Leader 4 shaft on 34'/10.4 meter
Bahia Class Cruiser 4 shaft 39'/11.9 meter
I know there are more but that's the ones I could find easy/quick
my latest attempt at a CL, gave up on keeping it at 3K and went up to 3500 tons (should still hypothetically be a one year build time) MUCH better ship over all I think, the high points are as follows. Improved armour, Increased range, Uniform battery of 6" guns while maintaining a 7 gun broadside (verse the previous mix of 4" and 6" guns)... so basically everything that makes a ship better is well better.
CLX-1904-2, Unified Netherlands Second Class Cruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
3,500 t light; 3,641 t standard; 4,108 t normal; 4,482 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(450.00 ft / 447.00 ft) x 40.00 ft x (16.50 / 17.61 ft)
(137.16 m / 136.25 m) x 12.19 m x (5.03 / 5.37 m)
Armament:
7 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1904 Model
7 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 700 lbs / 318 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.75" / 19 mm 0.25" / 6 mm 0.50" / 13 mm
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 20,000 shp / 14,920 Kw = 25.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 841 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
256 - 333
Cost:
£0.423 million / $1.692 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 202 tons, 4.9 %
- Guns: 202 tons, 4.9 %
Armour: 344 tons, 8.4 %
- Armament: 17 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 310 tons, 7.5 %
- Conning Tower: 17 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,631 tons, 39.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,268 tons, 30.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 608 tons, 14.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 55 tons, 1.3 %
- On freeboard deck: 55 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,127 lbs / 965 Kg = 19.7 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 12.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.62
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.31
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.487 / 0.498
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.18 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.14 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 8.33 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 17.70 %, 20.50 ft / 6.25 m, 18.50 ft / 5.64 m
- Forward deck: 15.30 %, 18.50 ft / 5.64 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Aft deck: 51.00 %, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Quarter deck: 16.00 %, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Average freeboard: 13.24 ft / 4.04 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 144.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 107.7 %
Waterplane Area: 11,778 Square feet or 1,094 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 94 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 69 lbs/sq ft or 337 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.16
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
55 tons Misc Weight
25 tons long range wireless set
30 tons stuff (aka I havnt decided what yet, consider it a reserve for the moment)
The ship form is excessive
QuoteBlock coefficient (normal/deep): 0.487 / 0.498
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.18 : 1
You could bring it back to form by shortening the hull length.
Logi are you referring to the BC or the Length to beam ratio, not trying to be argumentative just not sure which you are referring to, I inserted the rules for clarity.
the rule states
QuoteLength to Beam Ratios of 12:1 (smaller, faster ships) or 10:1 (larger or slower ships) or less are reasonable and do not risk moderator-inflicted incidents. Ships approaching circular shape risk moderator-inflicted performance issues.
Quote0.38 is the absolute minimum. Coefficients should be reflective of the size and speed of the vessel.
so going by that 11-1 and a .487 would seam reasonable to me for a not small but also not large ship, that is for the period fast (admittedly what constitutes fast varies by era). she is based on Yūbari which comes in at 11.32-1 the Arethusa class is the same 11.18-1 I ended up at, like 3/4 of the British period CLs come in at 10.88-1. BCs on the other hand are all over the damn place from a high of .505 to a low of .472.
What are the definitions for "smaller, faster ships" and "larger or slower ships"? Just like that it is rather vague. To me the design is not smaller or faster but it is not larger or slower either.
Looking at wiki for the Yubari, the image indicates a length (wl) of 459 feet and a beam of 39 feet and 6 inches. That would be a l:b ratio of 11.62:1. Although the Arethusa has an l:b ratio of 11.18:1, that is based on the ship's length (oa) and not length (wl).
I am going by Conways numbers Walter (admittedly not always accurate)it gives WL and over all on both Yubari and Arethusa, which is where I got my numbers.
Quote from: Walter on July 10, 2016, 01:52:36 PM
What are the definitions for "smaller, faster ships" and "larger or slower ships"? Just like that it is rather vague. To me the design is not smaller or faster but it is not larger or slower either.
Looking at wiki for the Yubari, the image indicates a length (wl) of 459 feet and a beam of 39 feet and 6 inches. That would be a l:b ratio of 11.62:1. Although the Arethusa has an l:b ratio of 11.18:1, that is based on the ship's length (oa) and not length (wl).
Unfortunately I do not have that kind of luxurious books. Still, the Yubari image on wiki that gives the length (wl) of 459 feet and the beam of 39 feet and 6 inches is from the Division of Naval Intelligence so I would assume that that would be a decently reliable source. :)
Quote from: Tanthalas on July 10, 2016, 01:34:31 PMLogi are you referring to the BC or the Length to beam ratio, not trying to be argumentative just not sure which you are referring to, I inserted the rules for clarity.
Both
Quote from: Tanthalas on July 10, 2016, 01:34:31 PMso going by that 11-1 and a .487 would seam reasonable to me for a not small but also not large ship, that is for the period fast (admittedly what constitutes fast varies by era). she is based on Yūbari which comes in at 11.32-1 the Arethusa class is the same 11.18-1 I ended up at, like 3/4 of the British period CLs come in at 10.88-1. BCs on the other hand are all over the damn place from a high of .505 to a low of .472.
I do not believe attempting to imitate the severely structurally understrength Yuubari which used fragile Destroyer-engines (to save weight) would be something you want to do.
The Arethusa class is actually less than 10.88 LB ratio because we (and SS) counts LB by the Lpp.
According to Norm Friedman in "British Cruisers: Two World Wars and After":
The Town class cruisers (1910) which preceded the Arethusa (1913) class were:
LBP 430', LOA 457', Beam 49'
Machinery 1075t with Normal disp 5,400t
which makes for a 8.8 LB ratio (9.3 LB with Loa) and 20% machinery weight
Leander class (1932) had
LBP 530', LOA 562', Beam 56' 8"
Machinery 1,393t with Standard disp 7,197t
which makes for 9.3 LB ratio (9.9 with Loa) and 19% machinery weight
Arethusa (1934)
LBP 480', LOA 506', Beam 51'
Machinery 1,221t with Standard disp 5,419t
which makes for 9.4 LB ratio (9.9 with Loa but no one counts that way) and 22% machinery weight
Unfortunately I do not have access to all the pages of the book, so I can't tell you the details on the Arethusa (1913). However, Friedman does mention the design sketches that they were all on the order of 410ft x 42ft and never mentions any other design sketches changing the basic hull specifications, so going by that, the Arethusa class (1913) would have somewhere around a 9.8 LB ratio
Even ignoring the LB ratio, going just by the numbers on the English wiki - 125m Lpp, 11.9m Beam, 4.75m Draft, and 3,568t Displacement - the Cb would be around 0.505
Friedman also mentions that the stability of the Arethusa class (1913) was not very satisfactory and very lively. Since Friedman mentions the extensive structural armor (armor also serving as structural strength) in the ship, I would postulate that such armor would have increased the metacentric height for the ship which makes it more structurally sound and stable that both mine and your 3,000t-3,500t cruiser designs. The removal of such armor and weight towards the bottom of the ship, therefore, would lead to an even more unstable and lively ship as well as make it structurally fragile.
Though my design suffers from these issues as well, your 3,500t design would no doubt suffer those symptoms much worse. Despite being roughly the same displacement as the Arethusa (1913) cruisers, your ship is much longer (447' vs 410' Lpp), thinner (40' vs 42' Beam), and deeper (17.6' vs 15.6' Draft at deep load). You also consume much more ship weight and strength in machinery without having nearly as much structural strength. If one were to simply scale up the dimensions of the Arethusa (1913) cruisers to your design via Beam, the ship would only be (430.5' x 42' x 16.4'). Your design would still be longer by 4% (+16.5') and deeper by 7% (+1.2')
You can feel free to build it, but my 3,000t DDL design was already on the brink of being considered fragile like a destroyer (which is one of the reasons I am against building it). Your 3,500t design would most definitely be considered little more structurally sound than a destroyer.
QuoteThe Arethusa class is actually less than 10.88 LB ratio because we (and SS) counts LB by the Lpp.
I am 99.9% sure that SS uses length (wl) and not length (pp) and as far as I know, for the l:b ratio here (and Wesworld as well) has always been length (wl).
Typically naval literature mentions Lpp so I've built a habit of using that term. For our purposes however, you can just substitute it with Lwl since in SS it's roughly the same. For that matter, the LBP that Friedman mentions is actually the exact same phrase as Lpp.
In SS the length you enter is the length (wl) and length (wl) =/= length (pp) so length (wl) can't be substituted by length (pp) and vice versa. That's like saying "We'll substitute the patients heart with a kidney."
Lwl means Length waterline.
Lpp means length between perpendiculars.
They are both calculated on the basis of the lengthwise extremes of the waterplane. The difference in measurement differs only slightly on ships due to the difference in how far the stern extends over the rudder. In fact the difference even with different sterns typically is within 99% of each other. This is because the root of the rudder post will be extremely close to the waterline to begin with and unless the stern extends almost parallel to the water's surface, there will not be very much distance between the stern touching the water and the rudder post. For our purpose which is that of calculating LB ratios, the difference of 1% will not yield a significant change in the ratio. It will not, for example, make a ratio of 10 to a ratio of 11. Therefore my statement stands.
The typical length waterline is 98% of length overall, as determined empirically by others and is still used today. The difference in Lpp and Lwl is even smaller and so small in practice that, for simple discussion of engineering issues, most literature treat them as the same. Of course, you would treat it differently in the actual construction of the vessel to avoid issues in fit. However, they are treated the same otherwise because they are so similar and painting in broad strokes during the design phase is significantly more important than being pointlessly pedantic.
Edit: I should note that they treat it as the same because everyone knows they are not the exact same but quite similar. In mathematical terms, Lpp ≈ Lwl but Lpp ≠ Lwl and for most things ≈ is enough to talk about.
I have all of the Conways, and some of the Friedmans books, unfortunately that isn't one I have, although I do have both US Destroyers and US Battleships (and us carriers but that is sort of useless for us as is the Submarine book).
WL and PP are sometimes the same in period works and sometimes not... it is kinda random like BCs. and Logi I didn't even go into the most extreme bcs for Cruisers (in either direction) these are just some of the highlights (or is that lowlights seriously some of these are lower than even I would ever try to go) of "period" cruisers. As I have said before BCs are all over the place (but the Germans have the lowest ones of any I looked at).
Blonde class scout Cruisers .443 (roughly the size of your 2600 ton job but I have never been able to make it work in SS)
Active class scout Cruisers .461 (similar size and another one i have never managed to make work)
Caledon Class Cruisers .472 (a ship I can get close to working but not quite no matter how much I mess with it)
Emrald Class Cruiser .445 (I had to check that 3 times cause even I was like WTF
German ships tend to have lower BCs than their brit counterparts (no clue why honestly)
Konigsberg class cruisers (1905) come in at a Scary (to me anyway) .412
Dresden Class Light Cruiser .471
Kolberg class Light Cruisers .445
Magdeburg class light Cruiser .486 (Circa 1910 yeah it took Germany that long to get to a .486)
I tried to stick only to ships where I had a WL and OA, thus eliminating things like clipper/ram bows from the discussion
*added when I went to post and saw your post Logi*
Personally I use LPP and LWL as more or less the same. although in the past I have stumbled across a few (very very few like as in only one I can remember and it was on la great lakes freighter) where it was a 4' difference (although that was on much larger ship than what we are dealing with, I figure *shrug* close enough for my purposes).
Like I said,m you can feel free to build it - I just would not feel very comfortable with it. Ofc I try to design my ships to be more robust than necessary, so perhaps your design is fine anyways.
Just to be viewed as an experiment, ditched the hoists and played around with several other stats to add the "half belt" simulating the curved portion of the protected deck. It works, and period ships apparently didn't mount hoists for every gun (looks like pairs and sometimes 3 guns shared a hoist, but I am unsure how to accurately simulate that outside using 2 batteries which I may play around with later). As always opinions are welcome (especially since this was done as an experiment).
CLX-1904-3, Unified Netherlands Protected Cruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
3,500 t light; 3,638 t standard; 4,009 t normal; 4,306 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(450.00 ft / 450.00 ft) x 44.00 ft x (14.16 / 14.95 ft)
(137.16 m / 137.16 m) x 13.41 m x (4.32 / 4.56 m)
Armament:
7 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
7 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
2 raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 700 lbs / 318 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 415.00 ft / 126.49 m 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 142 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,950 shp / 14,883 Kw = 25.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 667 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
251 - 327
Cost:
£0.388 million / $1.553 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 130 tons, 3.2 %
- Guns: 130 tons, 3.2 %
Armour: 416 tons, 10.4 %
- Belts: 128 tons, 3.2 %
- Armament: 20 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 246 tons, 6.1 %
- Conning Tower: 22 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 1,641 tons, 40.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,288 tons, 32.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 509 tons, 12.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 25 tons, 0.6 %
- On freeboard deck: 25 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,700 lbs / 1,224 Kg = 25.0 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.40
Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 11.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 79 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.48
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.509
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.23 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.21 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Aft deck: 55.00 %, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Average freeboard: 14.40 ft / 4.39 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 141.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137.4 %
Waterplane Area: 13,198 Square feet or 1,226 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 66 lbs/sq ft or 321 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.17
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Another Experiment in keeping with our Cruiser rules thread. More or less a Copy of a German CL (Konigsberg class 1905) with some liberties taken to improve gun layout (the fore and aft pair are SF instead of being side by side). However it worked more or less (I had to add tonnage to get them up to a 1.00 as they came in at a .91 so would work with our .9 proposal). Lots of stuff would be outside the armour based on this sim (but that appears to be a period thing)
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1905
Displacement:
3,000 t light; 3,105 t standard; 3,581 t normal; 3,962 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(383.16 ft / 383.16 ft) x 43.66 ft x (17.42 / 18.69 ft)
(116.79 m / 116.79 m) x 13.31 m x (5.31 / 5.70 m)
Armament:
6 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 40.00lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck centre
4 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 40.00lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft
2 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
Weight of broadside 400 lbs / 181 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 265.91 ft / 81.05 m 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 107 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 1.75" / 44 mm
Forecastle: 0.75" / 19 mm Quarter deck: 0.75" / 19 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 16,573 shp / 12,363 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 5,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 857 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
230 - 300
Cost:
£0.314 million / $1.256 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 51 tons, 1.4 %
- Guns: 51 tons, 1.4 %
Armour: 472 tons, 13.2 %
- Belts: 98 tons, 2.7 %
- Armament: 41 tons, 1.1 %
- Armour Deck: 313 tons, 8.7 %
- Conning Tower: 20 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 1,381 tons, 38.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,079 tons, 30.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 581 tons, 16.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 18 tons, 0.5 %
- On freeboard deck: 18 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,733 lbs / 1,240 Kg = 85.4 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.52
Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 10.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.10
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.55
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak, raised quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.430 / 0.444
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.78 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.57 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 17.80 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Forward deck: 39.80 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Aft deck: 29.60 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Quarter deck: 12.80 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 14.07 ft / 4.29 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 129.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 113.2 %
Waterplane Area: 10,506 Square feet or 976 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 62 lbs/sq ft or 305 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.79
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Fore Deck used to simulate both Fore Deck and Raised portion of Aft Deck
23.3 Percent foreward
16.5 Percent aft
Misc Weight
18 tons of Stuff (as this was an experiment I didn't bother figuring it out)
Quote from: Tanthalas on July 23, 2016, 08:10:37 AM
Another Experiment in keeping with our Cruiser rules thread. More or less a Copy of a German CL (Konigsberg class 1905) with some liberties taken to improve gun layout (the fore and aft pair are SF instead of being side by side). However it worked more or less (I had to add tonnage to get them up to a 1.00 as they came in at a .91 so would work with our .9 proposal). Lots of stuff would be outside the armour based on this sim (but that appears to be a period thing)
.91? Nice experiment.
Sounds like we're onto something useful :)
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on July 23, 2016, 01:05:43 PM
Quote from: Tanthalas on July 23, 2016, 08:10:37 AM
Another Experiment in keeping with our Cruiser rules thread. More or less a Copy of a German CL (Konigsberg class 1905) with some liberties taken to improve gun layout (the fore and aft pair are SF instead of being side by side). However it worked more or less (I had to add tonnage to get them up to a 1.00 as they came in at a .91 so would work with our .9 proposal). Lots of stuff would be outside the armour based on this sim (but that appears to be a period thing)
.91? Nice experiment.
Sounds like we're onto something useful :)
I think so a lot of them I have simmed last few days come in around a .89-.92 with our proposed 1 meter/3 foot belt used to simulate the heavier portions of the deck. (the over grown destroyers the brits built as scout cruisers are lower but *shrug*)
Continuing to work on my for Construction Cruiser, mostly adjustments I discovered were necessary during the drawing process. This ship is seriously "tight" (as in DAMN there aint a lot of room even now). Honestly I don't think a 7X6" broadside would fit on less length (I honestly question it on this length)...
CLX-1904-2, Unified Netherlands Second Class Cruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
3,500 t light; 3,641 t standard; 4,108 t normal; 4,482 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(450.00 ft / 447.00 ft) x 40.00 ft x (16.50 / 17.61 ft)
(137.16 m / 136.25 m) x 12.19 m x (5.03 / 5.37 m)
Armament:
7 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1904 Model
7 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
3 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 700 lbs / 318 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.75" / 19 mm 0.25" / 6 mm 0.50" / 13 mm
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 20,000 shp / 14,920 Kw = 25.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 841 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
256 - 333
Cost:
£0.423 million / $1.692 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 202 tons, 4.9 %
- Guns: 202 tons, 4.9 %
Armour: 348 tons, 8.5 %
- Armament: 17 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 314 tons, 7.6 %
- Conning Tower: 17 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,632 tons, 39.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,278 tons, 31.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 608 tons, 14.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 1.0 %
- On freeboard deck: 40 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,108 lbs / 956 Kg = 19.5 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 13.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.28
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.487 / 0.498
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.18 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.14 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 8.33 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 14.70 %, 20.50 ft / 6.25 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Aft deck: 56.80 %, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Quarter deck: 13.50 %, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Average freeboard: 13.04 ft / 3.97 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 144.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106.6 %
Waterplane Area: 11,774 Square feet or 1,094 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 94 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 70 lbs/sq ft or 341 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.14
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
40 tons Misc Weight
25 tons long range wireless set
15 tons stuff (aka I havnt decided what yet, consider it a reserve for the moment)
I'm going to admit to being very dubious as to how you can fit those 7 guns in. Looking at the Yubari you reference elsewhere, if you substituted 6" guns for the torpedoes...that still is only 6 spots.
If we're going with our proposed protected deck rules, your " Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 144.6 %" is too high for a protective deck.
There's also the 11.18 L:B. Reading the earlier comments, particularly Logi's discussion on the 10th, I think you're pushing things. It does appear the Japanese tended towards longer L:Bs, but also those ships are 10-15years later, during a period metallurgy changed a great deal. Looking at the IJN Tone, Yoda and Chikuma- the contempary vessels- they do not have that fine L:B. Could you do it? Sure - but you should be forewarned.
With the 38mm slopes it is still pretty vulnerable to Common rounds. Though it's probably proof against HE.
Then there's the range. From google earth it's enough..barely. You've got roughly a 400nm margin to make Djiobouti, another 400nm to make Batavia, 150nm to make the mouth of the Congo, and 800nm to Dutch Guiana. Now, if you have to cruise at something other than your economical rate, either slower as escorting a Merchant, or faster for combat, you will run out. So if you just plan to leave it on station, it's all good, but if the conception involves wartime transit, you may want more.
No need to address your points individually, But I will hit the high points even though I actually agree with you on every single point Kirk.
On the gun number (thought I should address it anyway for Clarity, well it and the range) 6 guns is IMHO far more reasonable for this hull, and anything much shorter I would personally question even 6 guns centerline.
Range issue I personally view 5K as the absolute Minimum I can accept (as you noted it is enough just barely under ideal conditions I am actually leaning toward 5500-6K as Ideal).
Personally I view the current armour as insufficient, but then again I never liked protected Cruisers... a .9 composite would let me kick the slopes up to 3"/76mm (which is much better IMHO).
as to L-B and BC (I view em kinda as one and the same in this case) I would MUCH rather shorten the hull and widen it out a bit the length was actually driven by my desire for a 7 gun broadside (which as I pointed out earlier I don't think honestly fits even at this length).
I wont actually lay one of them down until H105 at the earliest (H2 is more realistic proly), and I will continue to play with them right up to that point most likely. Then again if the cruiser rules get changed the whole hull gets more or less scraped as an idea since a .90 composite changes everything.
If I give up on the seriously stupid for the period 25 knot requirement, and add another 500 tons (which I can do if I drop the 25 knot bit) I get what I consider a much more reasonable cruiser. Definitely a Light cruiser not a Protected one, and my innate personal honesty compels me to admit it is a far superior design. More or less a knock off of a Brit CL (although from a far later period and at a much reduced speed).
CLX-1905-1, Unified Netherlands Second Class Cruiser laid down 1905
Displacement:
4,000 t light; 4,145 t standard; 4,751 t normal; 5,236 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(471.00 ft / 464.00 ft) x 45.50 ft x (16.50 / 17.73 ft)
(143.56 m / 141.43 m) x 13.87 m x (5.03 / 5.40 m)
Armament:
6 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
6 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 600 lbs / 272 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 352.00 ft / 107.29 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Ends: 1.50" / 38 mm 112.00 ft / 34.14 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 117 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.50" / 13 mm 0.25" / 6 mm 0.50" / 13 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 18,556 shp / 13,843 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,091 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
285 - 371
Cost:
£0.416 million / $1.664 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 174 tons, 3.7 %
- Guns: 174 tons, 3.7 %
Armour: 784 tons, 16.5 %
- Belts: 387 tons, 8.1 %
- Armament: 13 tons, 0.3 %
- Armour Deck: 365 tons, 7.7 %
- Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,531 tons, 32.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,462 tons, 30.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 751 tons, 15.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 49 tons, 1.0 %
- On freeboard deck: 49 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,675 lbs / 1,667 Kg = 34.0 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 12.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 79 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.31
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak, raised quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.477 / 0.490
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.20 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.54 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.28 degrees
Stern overhang: -2.00 ft / -0.61 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.90 %, 27.50 ft / 8.38 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forward deck: 17.40 %, 17.50 ft / 5.33 m, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
- Aft deck: 51.70 %, 8.50 ft / 2.59 m, 8.50 ft / 2.59 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 12.24 ft / 3.73 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 116.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.0 %
Waterplane Area: 13,784 Square feet or 1,281 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 73 lbs/sq ft or 354 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.03
- Longitudinal: 0.98
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Yes, I'm relooking at my "Draft" folders at my various designs, and my "likely" folder with the Aegis CL (goal : maximum forward 6" fire for anti torpedo attacker work) and they will change modestly if the rules are updated as suggested.
Of course my build schedule is painfully tight, so there is no immediate effect other than the Mercury class being under the old scheme.
The last one is exellent.
...You could use 20 000 shp
Jef
Thanks Jef, you are of course correct I could use 20K SHP... However the weight for it would have to come from somewhere and I am not sure .45 knots is worth it.
Quote from: Jefgte on July 29, 2016, 04:01:46 PM
The last one is exellent.
...You could use 20 000 shp
Jef
QuoteThanks Jef, you are of course correct I could use 20K SHP... However the weight for it would have to come from somewhere and I am not sure .45 knots is worth it.
Increase armament - armor - misc weight ...
20 000shp could be used on a heavier cruiser to maintain 24kts.
:)
Oh I don't exactly disagree with that point Jef, I am still making adjustments (just nothing that is worth posting yet) and likely will right up to the moment I lay down the first one.
Quote from: Jefgte on July 30, 2016, 09:01:11 AM
QuoteThanks Jef, you are of course correct I could use 20K SHP... However the weight for it would have to come from somewhere and I am not sure .45 knots is worth it.
Increase armament - armor - misc weight ...
20 000shp could be used on a heavier cruiser to maintain 24kts.
:)
Newest version, gained another 250 tons added a pair of wing guns (they should fit) giving it a 7 gun broadside and the ability to fire 3 guns directly forward (A definitely cant fire over the trawler bow), and range went up rather substantially. Build time would be 13.25 months making them available effectively the same HY (although 2 months later in it) as the original 3500 ton design. It can possibly gain another 250 tons (haven't messed with that yet) then the gain would go mostly into hull modifications (widen them out a touch), and armour (possibly a bit of Misc weight). Opinions as always welcome.
CLX-1905-2, Unified Netherlands Second Class Cruiser laid down 1905
Displacement:
4,250 t light; 4,421 t standard; 5,237 t normal; 5,890 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(471.00 ft / 464.00 ft) x 46.00 ft x (17.00 / 18.60 ft)
(143.56 m / 141.43 m) x 14.02 m x (5.18 / 5.67 m)
Armament:
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
6 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
3 raised mounts
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
Weight of broadside 800 lbs / 363 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 351.00 ft / 106.98 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Ends: 1.50" / 38 mm 113.00 ft / 34.44 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 116 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.75" / 19 mm 0.25" / 6 mm 0.50" / 13 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,896 shp / 14,843 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 7,720nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,468 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
307 - 400
Cost:
£0.461 million / $1.844 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 231 tons, 4.4 %
- Guns: 231 tons, 4.4 %
Armour: 805 tons, 15.4 %
- Belts: 387 tons, 7.4 %
- Armament: 20 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 379 tons, 7.2 %
- Conning Tower: 19 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,642 tons, 31.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,515 tons, 28.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 987 tons, 18.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 57 tons, 1.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 57 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,993 lbs / 1,811 Kg = 37.0 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 12.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.29
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak, raised quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.505 / 0.519
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.09 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.54 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.28 degrees
Stern overhang: -2.00 ft / -0.61 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.90 %, 27.50 ft / 8.38 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forward deck: 17.40 %, 17.50 ft / 5.33 m, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
- Aft deck: 51.70 %, 8.50 ft / 2.59 m, 9.50 ft / 2.90 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 10.00 ft / 3.05 m, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Average freeboard: 12.73 ft / 3.88 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 116.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.6 %
Waterplane Area: 14,288 Square feet or 1,327 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 73 lbs/sq ft or 358 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 0.99
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
So there I was perving everyone's ships (what it's a thing I do), and I discovered that the latest US CLs are completly unarmoured... this got me thinking "Self what could I do if I didn't bother with armour at all", then I thought to myself "Self what could I do with 5" guns" so I put the 2 concepts together, note I do not currently have a 5" gun available but I could develop one (remember that 4.25 cash that has been annoying me for H105). So here it is, I proly wont build it (I am rather enamored of the 4K ship actually), but it was interesting enough to post I figured (and lets be honest the .75" deck on some period ships is basically a waste).
What is he thinking, Unified Netherlands Third Class Cruiser (unprotected) laid down 1905
Displacement:
3,000 t light; 3,107 t standard; 3,540 t normal; 3,886 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(404.00 ft / 400.00 ft) x 40.00 ft x (15.50 / 16.64 ft)
(123.14 m / 121.92 m) x 12.19 m x (4.72 / 5.07 m)
Armament:
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm 50.0 cal guns - 55.01lbs / 24.95kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
6 x Single mounts layout not set
2 raised mounts
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck centre
Weight of broadside 440 lbs / 200 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.75" / 19 mm 0.25" / 6 mm 0.50" / 13 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,280 shp / 14,383 Kw = 25.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 779 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
229 - 298
Cost:
£0.380 million / $1.519 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 159 tons, 4.5 %
- Guns: 159 tons, 4.5 %
Armour: 37 tons, 1.0 %
- Armament: 17 tons, 0.5 %
- Conning Tower: 20 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 1,562 tons, 44.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,128 tons, 31.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 540 tons, 15.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 114 tons, 3.2 %
- On freeboard deck: 114 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,500 lbs / 681 Kg = 24.0 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 14.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.11
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.511
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9.87 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.90 %, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forward deck: 14.80 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Aft deck: 54.30 %, 9.50 ft / 2.90 m, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Average freeboard: 13.06 ft / 3.98 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 156.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 104.6 %
Waterplane Area: 10,657 Square feet or 990 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 69 lbs/sq ft or 337 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.26
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
A minor observation...
Quote6 x Single mounts layout not set
Huh Thought I had that set... Oh well minor fix.
Quote from: Walter on August 04, 2016, 10:54:07 AM
A minor observation...
Quote6 x Single mounts layout not set
If it is a minor fix, why hasn't it been fixed ~19 hour later? That ought to be a 10 second job. :)
Another thing. Why bother with "Coal and oil fired boilers" when you use 100% coal?
Oh it's fixed I just haven't bothered posting it (I caught the fuel thing, while fixing the other thing). Honestly I don't intend to build it (although it is kinda cool), mostly because I don't see the utility in building these kind of over grown destroyers at this point.
Quote from: Walter on August 05, 2016, 12:01:10 PM
If it is a minor fix, why hasn't it been fixed ~19 hour later? That ought to be a 10 second job. :)
Another thing. Why bother with "Coal and oil fired boilers" when you use 100% coal?
Fixed it for Walter ^.^
What is he thinking, Unified Netherlands Third Class Cruiser (unprotected) laid down 1905
Displacement:
3,000 t light; 3,107 t standard; 3,523 t normal; 3,856 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(404.00 ft / 400.00 ft) x 40.00 ft x (15.50 / 16.59 ft)
(123.14 m / 121.92 m) x 12.19 m x (4.72 / 5.06 m)
Armament:
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 55.01lbs / 24.95kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
Weight of broadside 440 lbs / 200 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.75" / 19 mm 0.25" / 6 mm 0.50" / 13 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,204 shp / 14,326 Kw = 25.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 748 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
228 - 297
Cost:
£0.368 million / $1.473 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 136 tons, 3.9 %
- Guns: 136 tons, 3.9 %
Armour: 37 tons, 1.1 %
- Armament: 18 tons, 0.5 %
- Conning Tower: 20 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 1,538 tons, 43.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,053 tons, 29.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 523 tons, 14.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 236 tons, 6.7 %
- On freeboard deck: 236 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,597 lbs / 724 Kg = 25.5 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 13.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.18
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.497 / 0.508
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9.87 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.90 %, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forward deck: 14.80 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Aft deck: 54.30 %, 9.50 ft / 2.90 m, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Average freeboard: 13.06 ft / 3.98 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 153.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 104.8 %
Waterplane Area: 10,633 Square feet or 988 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 64 lbs/sq ft or 313 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.28
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
QuoteFixed it for Walter
Well, if you want to show off a design, you should still post a correct one, even if you do not build it. :D
Having missed the name of the design, I would think that if you removed the mount armor and CT armor, "
Armor? We Don't Need No Stinkin' Armor!" would be an excellent name for a sister ship. ;D
HA I tend to agree walter, but as I said it was more of a curiosity than anything. Now this on the other hand might see production (might actually see mass production). Sort of a Omaha Light 8X6" broadside with 6 guns able to fire forward and 6 aft (just like the Omaha Class could OTL) on 4250 light. the massive range would make them useful as escorts and for colonial use (although the limited misc weight restricts their long term utility).
Honestly this is the most "period appropriate" ship I have proposed IMHO.
CLX-1905-3, Unified Netherlands Second Class Cruiser laid down 1905
Displacement:
4,250 t light; 4,457 t standard; 5,346 t normal; 6,057 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(476.00 ft / 469.00 ft) x 46.00 ft x (17.50 / 19.24 ft)
(145.08 m / 142.95 m) x 14.02 m x (5.33 / 5.86 m)
Armament:
4 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,200 lbs / 544 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 351.00 ft / 106.98 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Ends: 1.33" / 34 mm 118.00 ft / 35.97 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.75" / 19 mm 0.25" / 6 mm 0.50" / 13 mm
2nd: 0.75" / 19 mm 0.25" / 6 mm 0.50" / 13 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.33" / 34 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,985 shp / 14,909 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 8,300nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,600 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
312 - 406
Cost:
£0.462 million / $1.848 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 246 tons, 4.6 %
- Guns: 246 tons, 4.6 %
Armour: 771 tons, 14.4 %
- Belts: 384 tons, 7.2 %
- Armament: 26 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 341 tons, 6.4 %
- Conning Tower: 20 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,649 tons, 30.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,560 tons, 29.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,096 tons, 20.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 25 tons, 0.5 %
- On freeboard deck: 25 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4,283 lbs / 1,943 Kg = 39.7 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.34
Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 12.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.34
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak, raised quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.496 / 0.511
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.20 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.66 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.28 degrees
Stern overhang: -2.00 ft / -0.61 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.90 %, 27.50 ft / 8.38 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forward deck: 17.40 %, 17.50 ft / 5.33 m, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
- Aft deck: 51.70 %, 8.50 ft / 2.59 m, 9.50 ft / 2.90 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 10.00 ft / 3.05 m, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Average freeboard: 12.73 ft / 3.88 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 115.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 96.3 %
Waterplane Area: 14,317 Square feet or 1,330 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 75 lbs/sq ft or 367 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.05
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
while this isn't intended as a "one up" (especially since I cant see any reason for me to fight the Italians). Kirks ship did however get me thinking about what I am going to build as a follow on class to the Lion. There might be a precursor ship between them but this is what I got for a 1906-1908 laydown ship. Half a knot slower than Kirks ship with only 8 guns instead of 10 however much heavier armour and uses 12/50s instead of 10/50s. All in all it came out fairly well I think, and it maintaind my 16.5K personal internal restriction on BB/BC.
HNMS Tijger (Tiger), Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1906 (Engine 1909)
Displacement:
16,500 t light; 17,367 t standard; 19,238 t normal; 20,734 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(563.33 ft / 563.33 ft) x 82.25 ft x (28.00 / 29.67 ft)
(171.70 m / 171.70 m) x 25.07 m x (8.53 / 9.04 m)
Armament:
8 - 12.00" / 305 mm 50.0 cal guns - 894.00lbs / 405.51kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1906 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
23 - 5.00" / 127 mm 50.0 cal guns - 60.01lbs / 27.22kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1906 Model
22 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
1 hull mount in casemate- Limited use in heavy seas
2 - 5.00" / 127 mm 50.0 cal guns - 60.01lbs / 27.22kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1906 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 8,652 lbs / 3,925 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 362.22 ft / 110.40 m 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 201.09 ft / 61.29 m 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 362.22 ft / 110.40 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
1.30" / 33 mm 362.22 ft / 110.40 m 29.00 ft / 8.84 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 82.25 ft / 25.07 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 43,313 shp / 32,311 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,367 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
816 - 1,061
Cost:
£1.724 million / $6.897 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,764 tons, 9.2 %
- Guns: 1,764 tons, 9.2 %
Armour: 6,538 tons, 34.0 %
- Belts: 2,925 tons, 15.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 505 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 1,334 tons, 6.9 %
- Armour Deck: 1,588 tons, 8.3 %
- Conning Tower: 186 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 2,144 tons, 11.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,703 tons, 29.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,738 tons, 14.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.8 %
- On freeboard deck: 350 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
23,330 lbs / 10,582 Kg = 27.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 4.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 16.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.69
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.30
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.519 / 0.528
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.85 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.73 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -7.00 ft / -2.13 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 19.60 %, 25.00 ft / 7.62 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forward deck: 31.68 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Aft deck: 32.62 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Quarter deck: 16.10 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
- Average freeboard: 17.56 ft / 5.35 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.8 %
Waterplane Area: 31,415 Square feet or 2,919 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 153 lbs/sq ft or 746 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.63
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
350 tons Misc. Weight
125 tons Torpedo Nets (not needed but effectively something I could remove as part of a building reserve)
40 tons Additional DC equipment (extra pumps, Fire Fighting equipment, etc)
25 tons Long Range Wireless
25 tons Improved Acclimatization (additional insulation, air blowers, etc)
10 tons Flag Facilities
125 tons "Anti Roll Tanks" (no clue what they actually are but the Germans fitted and later removed them on some ships, this is like the torpedo nets effectively a building reserve)
*edit, 18AUG16*
Edited to put in what the "stuff" actually is, and change the name on the ship, additionally listed what I intend to do with the various misc weights (such as remove the roll tanks and torpedo nets to install a FC set).
For Torpedo bulkhead, "Strengthened structural bulkheads" should not be used as it does not work properly at all. I can take my BB design and add 800mm of "Strengthened structural bulkheads" and SS will still tell me that I have 1.01 hull strength enventhough the "Hull, fittings & equipment" is at -3,976 tons. If I swith from "Strengthened structural bulkheads" to "Additional damage containing bulkheads", the hull strength goes from 1.01 to -1.83.
HA didn't know that. Thanks Walter, Edit to fix the error Walter pointed out. Lost a bit of armour, but still a very nice ship all things considered (and still in keeping with my design ideals). I could shorten the belt a bit to make up the difference but IDK if everything would fit on a much shorter belt (haven't even tried to draw it yet so additional editing might take place if I decide to build it).
HNMS Tijger (Tiger), Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1906 (Engine 1909)
Displacement:
16,500 t light; 17,367 t standard; 19,238 t normal; 20,734 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(563.33 ft / 563.33 ft) x 82.25 ft x (28.00 / 29.67 ft)
(171.70 m / 171.70 m) x 25.07 m x (8.53 / 9.04 m)
Armament:
8 - 12.00" / 305 mm 50.0 cal guns - 894.00lbs / 405.51kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1906 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
23 - 5.00" / 127 mm 50.0 cal guns - 60.01lbs / 27.22kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1906 Model
22 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
1 hull mount in casemate- Limited use in heavy seas
2 - 5.00" / 127 mm 50.0 cal guns - 60.01lbs / 27.22kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1906 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 8,652 lbs / 3,925 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 362.22 ft / 110.40 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 201.09 ft / 61.29 m 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 362.22 ft / 110.40 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.30" / 33 mm 362.22 ft / 110.40 m 29.00 ft / 8.84 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 75.25 ft / 22.94 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 43,313 shp / 32,311 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,367 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
816 - 1,061
Cost:
£1.724 million / $6.897 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,764 tons, 9.2 %
- Guns: 1,764 tons, 9.2 %
Armour: 6,002 tons, 31.2 %
- Belts: 2,489 tons, 12.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 505 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 1,322 tons, 6.9 %
- Armour Deck: 1,532 tons, 8.0 %
- Conning Tower: 155 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 2,144 tons, 11.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,239 tons, 32.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,738 tons, 14.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.8 %
- On freeboard deck: 350 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
23,561 lbs / 10,687 Kg = 27.3 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 4.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 16.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.67
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.29
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.519 / 0.528
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.85 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.73 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -7.00 ft / -2.13 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 19.60 %, 25.00 ft / 7.62 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forward deck: 31.68 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Aft deck: 32.62 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Quarter deck: 16.10 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
- Average freeboard: 17.56 ft / 5.35 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.8 %
Waterplane Area: 31,415 Square feet or 2,919 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 154 lbs/sq ft or 750 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.62
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
350 tons Misc. Weight
125 tons Torpedo Nets (not needed but effectively something I could remove as part of a building reserve)
40 tons Additional DC equipment (extra pumps, Fire Fighting equipment, etc)
25 tons Long Range Wireless
25 tons Improved Acclimatization (additional insulation, air blowers, etc)
10 tons Flag Facilities
125 tons misc "Anti Roll Tanks" (no clue what they actually are but the Germans fitted and later removed them on some ships this is like the torpedo nets effectively a building reserve)
What is the maximum length of a ship that fits on a Type 2 slip or inside a Type 2 dock? 170 meters.
What is the maximum length of your design? 171.7 meters.
... so my opinion is that you should either make it 1.7 meters shorter or significantly longer so it is actually worth it to use a type 3 slip or dock for this ship.
... on the other hand, looking at the Dutch infrastructure, you do not have any type 3 slips or docks and you do not have any type 3 ports that can hold type 3 slips or docks so considering that there is a limit to the amount of cash you can spend on slips, docks and ports and thus will require a minimum of 18 months to expand a port and another 6 months to expand a slip or dock, if you really want to build a +170m ship, you better start expanding now if you want to start building that ship in 1907 (1906 is no longer possible).
=P I wont have all the techs in 1906 anyway, well unless I get insanely lucky and roll them all on turn 4 (Yeah Right like that will happen), and I have to develop the 12/50 & the 5/50. Add all that up and there will likely be one generation between the current ships and these. I might even develop a 11/50 before the 12/50 not a decision I have made yet. All told a more realistic laydown date would proly be 1908 (possibly late 1907) but 1906 is the "I could at the absolute earliest build it year (even though the tech development makes that highly unlikely)
Quote1906 is the "I could at the absolute earliest build it year (even though the tech development makes that highly unlikely)
Not the way it is now. Right now it requires Type 3 facilities and the Dutch would be busy expanding the port in 1905 and H1/1906 and expand a slip or dock in H2/1906 so the "I could at the absolute earliest build it year" is actually 1907. Even if you are super lucky with the tech rolls and you got everything you need tech-wise in 1906, it is impossible to start it in 1906 without a proper sized slip/dock inside a proper sized port.
I think your missing my point Walter... that or intentionally trying to start a fight for some unknown reason (which I doubt since I always viewd you as one of the reasonable ones around here). I view the "laydown year" as something fluid to be adjusted as necessary to fit the realities of slip availability/tech. The absolute earliest I could have the tech is 1906 (I wont but I hypothetically could). Once I develop the pertinent gun tech I have to develop an actual gun that will take 2 Years per the rules... (which is btw why I am thinking 12/50 instead of the 11/50 I would like to go with). Do I have the ports/slips/docks for it now, nope absolutely not. However by the time I can finish developing the guns and actually be ready to lay one down I can have them relatively easy. This is also why I anticipate an in between class (cause I am not going to sit around building nothing for 2 years while I develop the 12/50). Honestly I would like to develop an 11/50 in triple mounting, because outside German BCs I have a real thing for the Pships (which were honestly just over gunned heavy cruisers but I digress).
I think our disagreement here is more over how each of us view the laydown year (you are viewing it as concrete, I see it as fluid to fit conditions). Anyway I am done discussing this topic, you can feel free to be as critical of my proposal on its merits as you want (I actually appreciate criticism when it involves the actual ship not simple semantics). However lets not argue over minor issues like laydown dates that just happen to be the year I am working on and have no bearing on reality (aka since I cant build it till 1908 cause of the guns why argue over the laydown date).
Quote from: Walter on August 18, 2016, 01:44:29 PM
Quote1906 is the "I could at the absolute earliest build it year (even though the tech development makes that highly unlikely)
Not the way it is now. Right now it requires Type 3 facilities and the Dutch would be busy expanding the port in 1905 and H1/1906 and expand a slip or dock in H2/1906 so the "I could at the absolute earliest build it year" is actually 1907. Even if you are super lucky with the tech rolls and you got everything you need tech-wise in 1906, it is impossible to start it in 1906 without a proper sized slip/dock inside a proper sized port.
Interesting vessel. Due to the lay down dates it would be contempary with my 27knot version, so I may still build mine as it's meant for a different role.
However, I see several potential issues.
You have a ship that is a bit longer, wider, deeper than HMS Invincible, , with more armor, more secondary, and more fuel, yet roughly the same era...yet it's lighter. That's a sign to me that something is off.
To me, the first thing is, it appears you have the BC more suited to a (light?) cruiser on a ship with the dimensions and armanent of a battleship.
The low BC of course reduces the SHP needed for the speed, the fuel needed for consumption, improves the seakeeping and reduces the expanse of the armored deck.
But, once you have big guns, you need the hull structure to support them.
You have a ship that is a bit longer, wider, deeper than HMS Invincible, but also lighter, with more armor, yet roughly the same era. That's a sign to me that something is off.
Second, while you have a 25m beam- 1m more than say Invincible, it is far less than the German vessels of similar armanent.
Third, Breyer relates that Invincible was so weakly build that her frames distorted while drydocking, so perhaps her beam wasn't quite adequate for the hull girder.
Fourth, the low BC means the hull tapers quickly, combine that with the minimimal beam means that abreast your turrets, the hull girder will be even narrower and less adequate.
Fifth, Invincible didn't have a full Torpedo bulkhead, they only fit partials bulkheads abreast the magazines only.
Even with your currently modeled TDS system at 1.065m wide, you'd need 2.13m more width than the Invincibles, you ...you don't have it.
So your ship doesn't have room for your TDS. The German vessels, with their greater beam, did.
Then there are flavor aspects.
While you call it Tiger, so I presume you want X turret to be able to shoot over Y without superfiring - but that works if you forecastle deck extends aft to where X turret is. You have the same deckline throughout, so X will be buried.
Also, as the Dutch you should be paying attention to the question of if you really want deep drafts. Walter can chime in more, but what I've read is many of the Dutch ports were constrained by shallow drafts and sandbanks. Then there's Soerabaja, which has the dredged North entrance, but the broad bay to the east was limited to something like 7 or 7.5m.
QuoteI think your missing my point Walter
I actually think you are missing mine. With the "1906 is the "I could at the absolute earliest build it year"" you are actually claiming that it is
possible, no matter how small that chance is, to start building the design in 1906 if you are extremely lucky with the tech rolls. I say that with the way the design is, no matter what you do or what you try or how lucky you are with the tech rolls, it is
completely impossible to lay down that design in 1906. The only way to actually do that is to shorten the design so you can use a Type 2 slip or Dock and use existing guns so you are only dependent on the tech rolls for the engines and the BB/AC architecture. Only then does a possibility exist that the ship can be laid down in 1906.
... but since you are not changing anything about the design, neither 1906 nor 1907 should even be considered as "laydown year" no matter how fluid you make things.
QuoteI think our disagreement here is more over how each of us view the laydown year (you are viewing it as concrete, I see it as fluid to fit conditions).
The disagreement is more about me believing that the earliest possible lay down year should be when you can have the techs and guns available so you can start building the ship and you believing you can actually lay down that ship 2 years prior to that point which to me is indeed a concrete period in which it is impossible to build that ship.
QuoteAlso, as the Dutch you should be paying attention to the question of if you really want deep drafts. Walter can chime in more, but what I've read is many of the Dutch ports were constrained by shallow drafts and sandbanks. Then there's Soerabaja, which has the dredged North entrance, but the broad bay to the east was limited to something like 7 or 7.5m.
Nothing a little bit of dredging can't solve. Also all the dirt you'd dig out of harbors and waterways to make them deeper can be used to make new bits of land. We the Dutch are very good at that. :)
... and this is the old way how the dutch dealt with deep ships in shallow waters...
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_f-vet2DDl_k/TFKXcZzaerI/AAAAAAAABy4/P2ViAGBSgNU/s1600/30-7-2010+9-31-02.png)
... don't see how the Dutch can't do the same with the more modern ships. :)
Just trying out something quickly for Tanthalas to address certain areas with shallow depths. :)
Put one on each side of his HNMS Tijger design and two of these camels are good enough to raise the Tijger some 13.5 feet out of the water (at least if I did the test sim right; the draught of the Tijger would be about 14.5 feet once the camels are pumped empty).
The fuel is used to sim the ballast water inside the camel. The miscellaneous weights would be for pumps to get the water in and out of the camel.
Scheepskameel Half, Netherlands 0.5 Ship Camel laid down 1905
Displacement:
3,000 t light; 3,248 t standard; 12,397 t normal; 19,716 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(557.00 ft / 557.00 ft) x 40.00 ft x (20.50 / 32.00 ft)
(169.77 m / 169.77 m) x 12.19 m x (6.25 / 9.75 m)
Machinery:
Petrol Internal combustion motors,
Direct drive, 1 shaft, 2 shp / 2 Kw = 1.00 kts
Range 5,450,000nm at 1.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 16,468 tons
Complement:
586 - 763
Cost:
£0.105 million / $0.420 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,740 tons, 22.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 9,397 tons, 75.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 260 tons, 2.1 %
- Hull above water: 150 tons
- On freeboard deck: 110 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
439,646 lbs / 199,420 Kg = 4,070.8 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 104.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.44
Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 10.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.950 / 0.968
Length to Beam Ratio: 13.93 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.59 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 0 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 3.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144.8 %
Waterplane Area: 22,280 Square feet or 2,070 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 1,000 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 64 lbs/sq ft or 311 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.54
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily
Quote
Direct drive, 1 shaft, 2 shp / 2 Kw = 1.00 kts
Range 5,450,000nm at 1.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 16,468 tons
:o :( :D ;D ;D
Like I said, the fuel is used to sim the ballast water inside. It is actually something that you tow to the ship that needs to be raised but in order to use fuel I need to use an engine (using a cruising speed that is greater than the maximum speed of a ship is a major no-no).
... but if you want to know, if it was all fuel it would take this thing about 622 years to cover that distance. :)
QuoteLike I said, the fuel is used to sim the ballast water inside. It is actually something that you tow to the ship that needs to be raised but in order to use fuel I need to use an engine (using a cruising speed that is greater than the maximum speed of a ship is a major no-no).
... but if you want to know, if it was all fuel it would take this thing about 622 years to cover that distance. :)
;)
Actually I just called it tiger cause it was a follow on to Lion and I didn't want to use Princess Royal (didn't fit with my splendid cats names). The camel things are kinda interesting actually, not something I had considered but something I might have to look closer at given the historic port issues.
as to the L-B/BC I based the class on HMS Austrailia, sorta just rearranged it for a "how it shoulda been"
QuoteThe camel things are kinda interesting actually, not something I had considered but something I might have to look closer at given the historic port issues.
Initially I was thinking that perhaps the floating drydock rule could be applied, but the floating drydock actually lifts the entire ship out of the water while the Ship Camel cannot do that and the draught of the drydock lifting such a ship out of the water might actually be exactly the same as the ship it is lifting out of the water so it might not solve the problem at all and maybe make it even worse. Also applying the cost of a floating drydock ($9/9 BP for type 2 which is what I simmed) to it is way too much for something that does not and cannot function as a drydock.
Looking around a bit, the SS Rotterdam (IV) from 1908 had a draft of just over 10 meters so there might be a few places that your battlecruiser can actually get to. :)
IDK Walter you have done WAY more dutch stuff than I have. Generally my only concern has been "Do I have enough tonnage available at my ports to house said ship, and do I have the facilities to build/service the ship in question". In this case the answer is no, but I could hypothetically by the time I am actually capable of building it. Will I is a better question, to which I do not honestly have an answer currently.