Print Page - France 1870 restart

Title: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on July 18, 2013, 04:47:43 PM

Inspired from the "Redoutable", a central citadel BB-A

Central Citadel 1st class BB, France BB-A laid down 1870
Barbette ship

Displacement:
   9 560 t light; 9 953 t standard; 10 578 t normal; 11 078 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (336.00 ft / 330.00 ft) x 44.00 ft (Bulges 66.00 ft) x (26.23 / 27.81 ft)
   (102.41 m / 100.58 m) x 13.41 m (Bulges 20.12 m) x (8.00 / 8.48 m)

Armament:
2 - 10.77" / 274 mm 20.0 cal guns - 468.49lbs / 212.50kg shells, 70 per gun
     Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, bow & stern
6 - 10.77" / 274 mm 20.0 cal guns - 468.49lbs / 212.50kg shells, 70 per gun
     Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1870 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft - citadel
8 - 5.50" / 140 mm 30.0 cal guns - 64.15lbs / 29.10kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 30.0 cal guns - 2.44lbs / 1.11kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4 281 lbs / 1 942 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   324.00 ft / 98.76 m   7.24 ft / 2.21 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper for citadel:   13.8" / 350 mm   100.00 ft / 30.48 m   14.48 ft / 4.41 m
     Main Belt covers 151 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:     -        -         9.45" / 240 mm
   2nd:     -        -         9.45" / 240 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 0.99" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 0.99" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.99" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 5.90" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5 719 ihp / 4 267 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 124 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   520 - 677

Cost:
   £0.657 million / $2.627 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 417 tons, 3.9 %
     - Guns: 417 tons, 3.9 %
   Armour: 3 856 tons, 36.5 %
     - Belts: 2 295 tons, 21.7 %
     - Armament: 1 295 tons, 12.2 %
     - Armour Deck: 205 tons, 1.9 %
     - Conning Tower: 61 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 1 402 tons, 13.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 405 tons, 32.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 018 tons, 9.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 480 tons, 4.5 %
     - On freeboard deck: 80 tons
     - Above deck: 400 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11 151 lbs / 5 058 Kg = 25.5 x 10.8 " / 274 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 19.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.67
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.648 / 0.640
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   10.00 %, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
     - Forward deck:   25.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
     - Aft deck:   40.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
     - Quarter deck:   25.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
     - Average freeboard:      18.34 ft / 5.59 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 55.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 73.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 11 103 Square feet or 1 031 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 149 lbs/sq ft or 729 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.85
      - Longitudinal: 4.33
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on July 18, 2013, 05:11:04 PM

Central Citadel 2nd class BB, France BB-B laid down 1870
Barbette ship

Displacement:
   6 300 t light; 6 561 t standard; 7 047 t normal; 7 436 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (306.00 ft / 300.00 ft) x 44.00 ft (Bulges 60.00 ft) x (21.41 / 22.77 ft)
   (93.27 m / 91.44 m) x 13.41 m (Bulges 18.29 m) x (6.53 / 6.94 m)

Armament:
2 - 9.45" / 240 mm 20.0 cal guns - 316.48lbs / 143.55kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, bow & stern
4 - 9.45" / 240 mm 20.0 cal guns - 316.48lbs / 143.55kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft - citadel
8 - 5.50" / 140 mm 30.0 cal guns - 64.15lbs / 29.10kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 30.0 cal guns - 2.44lbs / 1.11kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2 432 lbs / 1 103 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   296.00 ft / 90.22 m   6.24 ft / 1.90 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper for citadel:   7.87" / 200 mm     80.00 ft / 24.38 m   14.48 ft / 4.41 m
     Main Belt covers 152 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:     -        -         9.45" / 240 mm
   2nd:     -        -         9.45" / 240 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 0.99" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 0.99" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.99" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 5.90" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 4 586 ihp / 3 421 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 875 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   383 - 499

Cost:
   £0.450 million / $1.800 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 281 tons, 4.0 %
     - Guns: 281 tons, 4.0 %
   Armour: 2 091 tons, 29.7 %
     - Belts: 1 076 tons, 15.3 %
     - Armament: 784 tons, 11.1 %
     - Armour Deck: 185 tons, 2.6 %
     - Conning Tower: 47 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 1 124 tons, 16.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 444 tons, 34.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 747 tons, 10.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 360 tons, 5.1 %
     - On freeboard deck: 60 tons
     - Above deck: 300 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7 421 lbs / 3 366 Kg = 25.1 x 9.5 " / 240 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.640 / 0.635
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   12.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
     - Forward deck:   25.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
     - Aft deck:   38.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
     - Quarter deck:   25.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
     - Average freeboard:      17.41 ft / 5.31 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 63.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 84.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 10 019 Square feet or 931 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 131 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 132 lbs/sq ft or 643 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.86
      - Longitudinal: 4.14
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on July 18, 2013, 07:38:47 PM

I don't know that there's enough deck space for all those guns on the sides, I suspect some will need to move up or down a deck.

Interesting layout as well, with the short forecastle and long quarterdeck.

VERY shallow main belt, I see. The upper belt, on the other hand, is quite tall, but doesn't cover much of the hulls length. What's it trying to cover?

Also, the tonnage allocated (I'm guessing) to masts & sails is too low, it needs to be 5% of the ship's NORMAL tonnage.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on July 19, 2013, 05:39:56 PM

QuoteI don't know that there's enough deck space for all those guns on the sides, I suspect some will need to move up or down a deck.

Interesting layout as well, with the short forecastle and long quarterdeck.

Probably enough space for the 140mm guns, 2 main guns x Single mounts are on centreline ends, bow & stern

QuoteVERY shallow main belt, I see. The upper belt, on the other hand, is quite tall, but doesn't cover much of the hulls length. What's it trying to cover?

Belt height could be increase & displacement too...

The upper belt cover the citadel.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on July 19, 2013, 06:20:10 PM

Quote from: Jefgte on July 19, 2013, 05:39:56 PM
QuoteI don't know that there's enough deck space for all those guns on the sides, I suspect some will need to move up or down a deck.

Interesting layout as well, with the short forecastle and long quarterdeck.
Probably enough space for the 140mm guns, 2 main guns x Single mounts are on centreline ends, bow & stern

The space between the forecastle and the quartereck is (93.27 * 0.63) = 58.76m
There's enough room for the 240mms: each side needs (((240mm * 20) * 2) * 4) = 38.4m (this just accounts for the room needed to swing the barrels)

The 140mms would need an additional (((140 * 30) * 2) * 4) = 33.6m (again, just to swing the barrels).

So, no, not enough room.

Quote
QuoteVERY shallow main belt, I see. The upper belt, on the other hand, is quite tall, but doesn't cover much of the hulls length. What's it trying to cover?

Belt height could be increase & displacement too...

The upper belt cover the citadel.

Only 80 feet? I could see it if it's a couple strips covering the 240mm barbettes, but they're already armored.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on July 20, 2013, 04:08:01 PM

QuoteForecastle: 12.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Forward deck: 25.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Aft deck: 38.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Quarter deck: 25.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 17.41 ft / 5.31 m

Decks ratio are wrong & must be reSS.
Futur ratio "ll be finalised by study drawing.

Jef

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on July 20, 2013, 05:10:45 PM

Certainly a better SS for BB-A :)

Central Citadel BB, France BB-A laid down 1870
Barbette ship

Displacement:
   9 780 t light; 10 178 t standard; 10 810 t normal; 11 316 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (334.65 ft / 328.08 ft) x 52.49 ft (Bulges 65.62 ft) x (27.12 / 28.47 ft)
   (102.00 m / 100.00 m) x 16.00 m (Bulges 20.00 m) x (8.27 / 8.68 m)

Armament:
2 - 10.79" / 274 mm 20.0 cal guns - 470.76lbs / 213.54kg shells, 70 per gun
     Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 10.79" / 274 mm 20.0 cal guns - 470.76lbs / 213.54kg shells, 70 per gun
     Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1870 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
8 - 5.51" / 140 mm 30.0 cal guns - 64.57lbs / 29.29kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 30.0 cal guns - 2.44lbs / 1.11kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4 302 lbs / 1 951 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
   Upper:   11.8" / 300 mm   111.55 ft / 34.00 m   14.11 ft / 4.30 m
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:     -        -         9.45" / 240 mm
   2nd:     -        -         9.45" / 240 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.38" / 35 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5 797 ihp / 4 325 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 138 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   529 - 689

Cost:
   £0.668 million / $2.671 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 419 tons, 3.9 %
     - Guns: 419 tons, 3.9 %
   Armour: 3 967 tons, 36.7 %
     - Belts: 2 298 tons, 21.3 %
     - Armament: 1 277 tons, 11.8 %
     - Armour Deck: 330 tons, 3.1 %
     - Conning Tower: 62 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 1 421 tons, 13.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 423 tons, 31.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 031 tons, 9.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 550 tons, 5.1 %
     - Above deck: 550 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11 995 lbs / 5 441 Kg = 27.3 x 10.8 " / 274 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
   Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 17.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.648 / 0.646
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.11 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   10.00 %, 21.98 ft / 6.70 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
     - Forward deck:   40.00 %, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
     - Aft deck:   40.00 %, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
     - Quarter deck:   10.00 %, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
     - Average freeboard:      18.08 ft / 5.51 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 55.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 84.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 13 169 Square feet or 1 223 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 126 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 152 lbs/sq ft or 741 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.86
      - Longitudinal: 3.75
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on July 20, 2013, 05:22:24 PM

ReSS Central Citadel 2nd class BB, France BB-B laid down 1870
Barbette ship

Displacement:
   6 360 t light; 6 622 t standard; 7 109 t normal; 7 498 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (301.84 ft / 295.28 ft) x 45.93 ft (Bulges 59.06 ft) x (22.43 / 23.76 ft)
   (92.00 m / 90.00 m) x 14.00 m (Bulges 18.00 m) x (6.84 / 7.24 m)

Armament:
2 - 9.45" / 240 mm 20.0 cal guns - 316.48lbs / 143.55kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 9.45" / 240 mm 20.0 cal guns - 316.48lbs / 143.55kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
8 - 5.51" / 140 mm 30.0 cal guns - 64.57lbs / 29.29kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 30.0 cal guns - 2.44lbs / 1.11kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2 435 lbs / 1 104 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   295.28 ft / 90.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
   Upper:   7.87" / 200 mm     78.74 ft / 24.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:     -        -         9.45" / 240 mm
   2nd:     -        -         9.45" / 240 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 0.98" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 5.90" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 4 614 ihp / 3 442 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 876 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   386 - 503

Cost:
   £0.453 million / $1.813 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 281 tons, 4.0 %
     - Guns: 281 tons, 4.0 %
   Armour: 2 163 tons, 30.4 %
     - Belts: 1 141 tons, 16.1 %
     - Armament: 787 tons, 11.1 %
     - Armour Deck: 188 tons, 2.7 %
     - Conning Tower: 47 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 1 131 tons, 15.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 409 tons, 33.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 749 tons, 10.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 375 tons, 5.3 %
     - Above deck: 375 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7 477 lbs / 3 391 Kg = 25.3 x 9.5 " / 240 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
   Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 16.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.636 / 0.633
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   10.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 20.34 ft / 6.20 m
     - Forward deck:   40.00 %, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
     - Aft deck:   40.00 %, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
     - Quarter deck:   10.00 %, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
     - Average freeboard:      17.43 ft / 5.31 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 63.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 86.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 10 257 Square feet or 953 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 130 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 132 lbs/sq ft or 643 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.85
      - Longitudinal: 4.22
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on July 20, 2013, 05:28:50 PM

Both of these are suffering from the same problem as the previous version of the last design: not nearly enough room on the main deck for the guns to swing and be fought.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on July 21, 2013, 02:43:53 AM

QuoteBoth of these are suffering from the same problem as the previous version of the last design: not nearly enough room on the main deck for the guns to swing and be fought.

Study drawings are necessary.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on July 21, 2013, 03:10:01 AM

The BB needs AT LEAST 54.8m for just the 274mm guns [((0.274 * 20) * 2) * 5) = 54.8 m], and it only has 81.6m of usable length. There's barely enough space for the main battery to be on the main deck without blast damage between the open barbettes, without adding the 140mm guns to the mix.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on July 21, 2013, 05:08:02 PM

Eclaireur, France cruiser laid down 1870

Displacement:
   4 100 t light; 4 212 t standard; 4 590 t normal; 4 893 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (318.24 ft / 311.68 ft) x 49.21 ft x (17.46 / 18.40 ft)
   (97.00 m / 95.00 m) x 15.00 m x (5.32 / 5.61 m)

Armament:
2 - 5.51" / 140 mm 30.0 cal guns - 64.57lbs / 29.29kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 30.0 cal guns - 23.53lbs / 10.67kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 30.0 cal guns - 2.44lbs / 1.11kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
      4 raised mounts
32 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, forward deck forward
Weight of broadside 235 lbs / 107 kg
Main Torpedoes
2 - 14.0" / 356 mm, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m torpedoes - 0.068 t each, 0.137 t total
   In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm     -           -
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm     -           -

- Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 0.79" / 20 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8 894 ihp / 6 635 Kw = 18.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 681 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   278 - 362

Cost:
   £0.455 million / $1.821 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 25 tons, 0.6 %
     - Guns: 25 tons, 0.6 %
     - Weapons: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Armour: 166 tons, 3.6 %
     - Armament: 16 tons, 0.4 %
     - Armour Deck: 150 tons, 3.3 %
   Machinery: 2 169 tons, 47.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 469 tons, 32.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 491 tons, 10.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 270 tons, 5.9 %
     - Hull below water: 40 tons
     - Above deck: 230 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1 527 lbs / 693 Kg = 26.1 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 10.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.60
   Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 10.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 89 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.53

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.607
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.33 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   10.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Forward deck:   40.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     - Aft deck:   40.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     - Quarter deck:   10.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     - Average freeboard:      12.20 ft / 3.72 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 155.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 90.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 11 218 Square feet or 1 042 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 94 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 89 lbs/sq ft or 436 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.74
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Machine gun Reffye with 16 tubes developed for "La Marine"

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on July 22, 2013, 05:53:18 AM

I suppose my question is whether the guns mounted are going to be capable of penetrating armor, or whether they're going to be limited to shooting up unarmored vessels.

Also, with sail & steam vessels, please put how fast the ship is capable of cruising under sail in the notes. Looks like this vessel is primarily a steamer, with only 5% of her displacement as masts & sails, but it's not clearly stated. Of course, if France intends to be focus on Africa and builds a few bases along the coast so her fleet can refuel, sails aren't really needed. For French Indochina, however, you'll want sails.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on July 22, 2013, 08:10:27 AM

Looking at study drawings made in 2011 for 1861 to 1872 ships.
There are no problemo for the installations of citadel guns because, they have 90, 120 or 150°angle of fire.
But, they have not exactly the same decks layout...

Jef

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on July 25, 2013, 04:28:29 PM

Actual 1870 Plan

2 x BB-1 : 9900t - 115x22x6.71 - 4x274+8x240 - 14kts - B100 - (Batteries ships Rochambeau & Lafayette) - (drawing nearly finish)
4 x BB-A : 9800t - 102x21x8.15 - 4x340+2x274+8x140 - 14kts - B300
2 x BB-B : 6600t - 97x18 - 6x240+8x140 - 14kts - B200 (drawing nearly finish)
4 x BB-C : 4400t - 91x18 - 2T2x240+6x140 - 14kts - B150

6 x Frigate-A : 5400t - 107x18 - 4x194+4x164 - 17kts - B100
12 x Corvette-A : 2420t - 75x14 - 6x140+4x47 - 16kts
12 x Aviso : 1900t - 74x12 - 4x100+4x47 - 16kts

Total:44 ships & 185.240t

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on July 26, 2013, 07:34:25 AM

Some period photos of various OTL French cruisers.

http://www.worldnavalships.com/cruisers3.htm

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on July 26, 2013, 07:52:58 AM

Quote from: Jefgte on July 25, 2013, 04:28:29 PM

Total:44 ships & 185.240t

Hmmmm. 14.76 BP left for ports, slips, docks, forts, and soldiers. Brest and Toulon will probably need to be AT LEAST Class D bases (which can support 50,000 tons of ships), and each Class D costs 6 BP. Hmmmm......

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Walter on July 26, 2013, 11:26:53 AM

I assume that Jef will be adjusting things a bit when he gets to that. I did that as well with previous Navalism runs.
1) Create the whole bunch what you are looking for (starting with the navy).
2) Look at the cost.
3) Adjust things until you get to the starting budget.
4) Fine tune it until you are satisfied with what you got.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on July 26, 2013, 03:36:23 PM

Thanks KW for the link, nice pictures.
--
200BP budget to start is short, the Fleet must be reducted & ... conquest not for 1871.
--
Walter is right, these are just a plan to see the 1870 SS possibilities & the tactical option of the Fleet.

Jef

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Walter on July 26, 2013, 05:20:05 PM

The big ships are the ones eating up a lot of BPs.

Messing around a bit myself and recycling a lot of ships from the Navalism 4 attempt (which still have pre-1870 dates), I'm currently at the total of 110 ships with a combined weight of 131,174 tons. Maybe even that will prove to be too much. I will know that when I start messing with ports, slips, docks, armies and fortresses.

Experimental ships
1x 5530
1x 219
1x 25

Armored Ships
1x 3500
1x 4400
2x 2675
1x 8000
2x 8350

Sloops
7x 1500
6x 1300
13x 800

Gunboats
7x 650
40x 80

Monitors (with truly ~~horrible~~ awesome seakeeping!!!)
2x 3300
9x 2100
10x 1800
4x 950
2x 1850

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on July 27, 2013, 01:55:32 PM

I've currently got about 150,000 tons, but nowhere near as many ships as that (38, I think). What are the tiny ones useful for in a mostly pre-colonial era (depending on which country you chose, you might have a few or no overseas colonies at startup), carrying spar torpedoes maybe?

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on July 27, 2013, 03:07:01 PM

I rework all SS to have a fleet with 100 ships & about 130 000t.

A kind of Squadron Gunboat could be an interresting choice to have quantity & small SGB able to work with the battleline...

Jef

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Walter on July 27, 2013, 03:22:50 PM

QuoteI've currently got about 150,000 tons, but nowhere near as many ships as that (38, I think).

It all depends on the size of the ships you sim. 40 river gunboats of 80 tons do add up to the total number of ships. I am still looking for a satisfactory real world vessel of that size to use for that one in order to fine-tune the final sim of that ~~ship~~ boat.

When you look at Jef's list, the smallest ship on his list is 1900 tons. Quite a few ships on my list are smaller than that. Still working on it as I type this post. Would be great to know the cost of other things.

QuoteWhat are the tiny ones useful for in a mostly pre-colonial era (depending on which country you chose, you might have a few or no overseas colonies at startup), carrying spar torpedoes maybe?

Those two tiny experimental ones are our secret weapons. ;D

One is this...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Uss_Spuyten_Duyvil_1864.jpg)
and the other is this...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/CSS_David_drawing.jpg)
... so yes, they carry a spar torpedo.

I simmed them just for fun and added them to my list (though will be removed if not deemed satisfactory). For true sillyness, the David's freeboard pic in SS even has that smoke stack. :D

QuoteA kind of Squadron Gunboat could be an interresting choice to have quantity & small SGB able to work with the battleline...

One might become a bit too focussed on what you will be sending onto the ocean (with conquest in mind) but you should not forget the jobs close to home. My monitors "with truly ~~horrible~~ awesome seakeeping!!!" are mostly for coastal work and stuff. Not intended to go too far away from home.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on July 27, 2013, 03:43:52 PM

For this restart, Did we retain "standard" or "normal" displacement?

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Walter on July 27, 2013, 03:57:24 PM

No idea. I'm working with normal display at the moment to be on the safe side. It is better to start with normal and then go back to standard. The other way around will result in a lot of headaches as your will suddenly require more BPs and $$$ if normal displacement is selected.

... still considering that I want some easy numbers to work with, I'll probably have to tweak the designs again should the decision be made to use standard displacement.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on July 27, 2013, 07:08:13 PM

For costs, same as last time: light displacement. The only thing that I can think of, right now, that uses normal displacement is the mast & sails, those are based on the ships normal displacement.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Walter on July 28, 2013, 03:47:11 AM

Light displacement? Okay...

*recalculates tonnages list*

Hey! I just found 19000 extra tons to spend. ;D

*goes off to fine-tune ships*

Personally, light displacement makes the most sense to me as this way you're paying for the ship, the whole ship and nothing but the ship. The additional stuff you add to it to get to normal displacement should be covered by upkeep.

QuoteThe only thing that I can think of, right now, that uses normal displacement is the mast & sails, those are based on the ships normal displacement.

Well, if you look a bit further, submarine rules also require the normal displacement to calculate the ballast tank. Eventhough I added that in the sim for the David, it is not really a submarine.

Didn't see any confirmation when it comes to your proposed mast & sail bit, but I have been applying it to my ships because I like it...

... but looking at it again, I did it completely wrong. I calculated it as 5% for 5 knots instead of 7 knots...

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on July 28, 2013, 04:17:46 AM

Quote from: Walter on July 28, 2013, 03:47:11 AM
Light displacement? Okay...

*recalculates tonnages list*

Hey! I just found 19000 extra tons to spend. ;D

*goes off to fine-tune ships*

Personally, light displacement makes the most sense to me as this way you're paying for the ship, the whole ship and nothing but the ship. The additional stuff you add to it to get to normal displacement should be covered by upkeep.

And since we have a maintenance system, we shouldn't be paying for fuel, water, or ammunition. ;)

Quote
QuoteThe only thing that I can think of, right now, that uses normal displacement is the mast & sails, those are based on the ships normal displacement.
Well, if you look a bit further, submarine rules also require the normal displacement to calculate the ballast tank. Eventhough I added that in the sim for the David, it is not really a submarine.

Didn't see any confirmation when it comes to your proposed mast & sail bit, but I have been applying it to my ships because I like it...

... but looking at it again, I did it completely wrong. I calculated it as 5% for 5 knots instead of 7 knots...

I've noticed fairly little response to several of my proposals (mast & sails, revised slip & dock costs, bases vs ports, etc). <shrug> I wish I got more.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Walter on July 28, 2013, 04:24:55 AM

Well, I shall consider them to be approved by everyone here. If they don't like it, they had plenty of time to object to it or come up with ideas of their own. :-)

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on July 28, 2013, 06:00:46 PM

Harbor, coastal or river Gunboat

GB2, France GB2 laid down 1870

Displacement:
   200 t light; 208 t standard; 241 t normal; 267 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (124.67 ft / 121.39 ft) x 22.97 ft x (5.04 / 5.49 ft)
   (38.00 m / 37.00 m) x 7.00 m x (1.54 / 1.67 m)

Armament:
1 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 30.0 cal gun - 23.53lbs / 10.67kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1870 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
2 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.67lbs / 1.21kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
Weight of broadside 29 lbs / 13 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -
   2nd:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 220 ihp / 164 Kw = 10.09 kts
   Range 2 000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 59 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   29 - 39

Cost:
   £0.016 million / $0.063 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 4 tons, 1.5 %
     - Guns: 4 tons, 1.5 %
   Armour: 7 tons, 2.9 %
     - Armament: 7 tons, 2.9 %
   Machinery: 54 tons, 22.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 105 tons, 43.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 41 tons, 17.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 30 tons, 12.5 %
     - On freeboard deck: 15 tons
     - Above deck: 15 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     328 lbs / 149 Kg = 15.4 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.45
   Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 9.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.610
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.29 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 11.02 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
     - Forward deck:   35.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      6.99 ft / 2.13 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 86.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 1 994 Square feet or 185 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 155 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 38 lbs/sq ft or 184 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.56
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Small patrol Gunboat

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on July 28, 2013, 06:07:45 PM

Squadron Gunboat

SGB1, France SGB1 laid down 1870

Displacement:
   860 t light; 893 t standard; 1 003 t normal; 1 090 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (160.76 ft / 157.48 ft) x 32.81 ft x (10.68 / 11.46 ft)
   (49.00 m / 48.00 m) x 10.00 m x (3.26 / 3.49 m)

Armament:
2 - 5.51" / 140 mm 30.0 cal guns - 64.57lbs / 29.29kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 30.0 cal guns - 23.52lbs / 10.67kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.67lbs / 1.21kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
2 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
Weight of broadside 182 lbs / 82 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.47" / 12 mm     -           -
   2nd:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0.20" / 5 mm     -           -
   4th:   0.20" / 5 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 1 764 ihp / 1 316 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 197 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   88 - 115

Cost:
   £0.097 million / $0.386 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 19 tons, 1.9 %
     - Guns: 19 tons, 1.9 %
   Armour: 8 tons, 0.8 %
     - Armament: 8 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 432 tons, 43.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 340 tons, 33.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 143 tons, 14.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 6.0 %
     - On freeboard deck: 8 tons
     - Above deck: 52 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     441 lbs / 200 Kg = 7.5 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.64
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 9.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.49

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.636 / 0.644
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 12.55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 12.47 ft / 3.80 m
     - Forward deck:   35.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      10.28 ft / 3.13 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 145.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 83.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 3 907 Square feet or 363 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 59 lbs/sq ft or 290 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.86
      - Longitudinal: 3.69
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on July 30, 2013, 10:43:55 AM

Reworked the Plan.
58 ships - 128.850t
Final Tonnage easily adjustable with quantity

(Rochambeau & Lafayette are out of the Plan)

TYPE	technos	Name	NORMAL DISP.	Qty	Tot Dis	DIM	ARMAMENT	SPEED & RANGE	ARMOR

BB-1	1870	Rochambeau-Lafayette	9900t	0	0	115x22.15x6.71 - ratio 5.19	4x274+8x240+6x140	14	B110-60-50
BB-A	1870	Audacieux-Ardent-Arrogant-Agile	7280	2	14560	98x22x6.81	4x340+2x274+8x140	14kts-3000nm/7kts	B350-D45
BB-B	1870	Brave-Batailleur-Belliqueux-Bandit-	5220	4	20880	95x18x5.61	6x274+8x140+8x47	14kts-3000nm/7kts	B200-D40
BB-C	1870	Courageux-Coureur-Chanceux-Combattant-Chevalier-Coléreux	3600	8	28800	85x17x4.63	4x240+6x140	14kts-3000nm/7kts	B150-D35
AGB-A	1870		2600	6	15600	72x15x4.51	4x194+4x164+4x47	14kts-3000nm/7kts	B100-D25
AC-A	1870		4900	4	19600	96x18x5.17	2x194+6x164+4x47+4x13	17kts-3000nm/7kts	B100-D25
CP	1870		2375	6	14250	73x14x4.31	6x140+4x47+4x13	16kts-3000nm/7kts	D30
GB1	1870		860	16	13760	49x10x3026	2x140+2x100+4x47+2x13	14kts-3000nm/7kts
GB2	1870		200	12	2400	38x7x1.54	2x100+2x47+2x13	10kts-2000nm/7kts

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Walter on July 30, 2013, 12:46:37 PM

Quote(Rochambeau & Lafayette are out of the Plan)

Maybe you should have them under construction at the beginning, depending on how much you got left at the end of spending all the $$$ and BPs.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on August 01, 2013, 06:22:11 AM

Fleet battleline:
14kts-3000nm@7kts (5% normal displacement)
36 ships

Fleet screen:
16kts-3000nm@7kts (5% normal displacement)
6 ships

Corsaires:
17kts-3000nm@7kts (5% normal displacement)
4 ships

Coastal patrol
10kts-2000nm@7kts (5% normal displacement)
12 ships

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on August 01, 2013, 06:53:47 AM

3rd class BB - 8 ships in the plan:

BB-C, France BB-C laid down 1870

Displacement:
   3 600 t light; 3 786 t standard; 4 053 t normal; 4 267 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (284.87 ft / 278.87 ft) x 42.65 ft (Bulges 55.77 ft) x (15.20 / 16.06 ft)
   (86.83 m / 85.00 m) x 13.00 m (Bulges 17.00 m) x (4.63 / 4.90 m)

Armament:
4 - 9.45" / 240 mm 20.0 cal guns - 316.36lbs / 143.50kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 - 5.51" / 140 mm 30.0 cal guns - 64.57lbs / 29.29kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 5.51" / 140 mm 30.0 cal guns - 64.57lbs / 29.29kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 30.0 cal guns - 2.45lbs / 1.11kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
4 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 30.0 cal guns - 0.04lbs / 0.02kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1 673 lbs / 759 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   275.59 ft / 84.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm     98.43 ft / 30.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     Main Belt covers 152 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm     -         3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.38" / 35 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3 347 ihp / 2 497 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 481 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   253 - 330

Cost:
   £0.280 million / $1.121 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 122 tons, 3.0 %
     - Guns: 122 tons, 3.0 %
   Armour: 954 tons, 23.5 %
     - Belts: 651 tons, 16.1 %
     - Armament: 57 tons, 1.4 %
     - Armour Deck: 214 tons, 5.3 %
     - Conning Tower: 32 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 820 tons, 20.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 454 tons, 35.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 453 tons, 11.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 6.2 %
     - On freeboard deck: 20 tons
     - Above deck: 230 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4 057 lbs / 1 840 Kg = 13.7 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.50
   Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.25
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.598
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.70 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   15.00 %, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
     - Forward deck:   35.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      13.75 ft / 4.19 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 85.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 8 699 Square feet or 808 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 126 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 104 lbs/sq ft or 508 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.37
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on August 06, 2013, 04:39:56 AM

To screen the battleships...
6 ships in the Plan

CL-A, France CL-A laid down 1870

Displacement:
   2 375 t light; 2 464 t standard; 2 667 t normal; 2 830 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (246.06 ft / 239.50 ft) x 45.93 ft x (13.56 / 14.25 ft)
   (75.00 m / 73.00 m) x 14.00 m x (4.13 / 4.34 m)

Armament:
2 - 5.51" / 140 mm 30.0 cal guns - 64.57lbs / 29.29kg shells, 160 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 5.51" / 140 mm 30.0 cal guns - 64.57lbs / 29.29kg shells, 160 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 30.0 cal guns - 2.45lbs / 1.11kg shells, 220 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 397 lbs / 180 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm     -           -
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.18" / 30 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 4 590 ihp / 3 424 Kw = 16.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 366 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   185 - 241

Cost:
   £0.252 million / $1.008 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 40 tons, 1.5 %
     - Guns: 40 tons, 1.5 %
   Armour: 190 tons, 7.1 %
     - Armament: 13 tons, 0.5 %
     - Armour Deck: 177 tons, 6.6 %
   Machinery: 1 117 tons, 41.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 878 tons, 32.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 293 tons, 11.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 5.6 %
     - Above deck: 150 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1 142 lbs / 518 Kg = 19.5 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.70
   Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 10.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.07
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.42

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.626 / 0.632
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.21 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   15.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
     - Forward deck:   35.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      10.43 ft / 3.18 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 141.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 83.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 8 243 Square feet or 766 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 79 lbs/sq ft or 385 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 2.02
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on August 06, 2013, 04:42:29 AM

Fast Frigate
4 ships in the Plan

Frégate-A, France Frégate-A laid down 1870

Displacement:
   4 900 t light; 5 083 t standard; 5 406 t normal; 5 665 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (321.52 ft / 314.96 ft) x 45.93 ft (Bulges 59.06 ft) x (16.96 / 17.81 ft)
   (98.00 m / 96.00 m) x 14.00 m (Bulges 18.00 m) x (5.17 / 5.43 m)

Armament:
2 - 7.64" / 194 mm 20.0 cal guns - 167.09lbs / 75.79kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 - 6.46" / 164 mm 30.0 cal guns - 103.79lbs / 47.08kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 6.46" / 164 mm 30.0 cal guns - 103.79lbs / 47.08kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.67lbs / 1.21kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
4 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 968 lbs / 439 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   295.28 ft / 90.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   2.36" / 60 mm   131.23 ft / 40.00 m   8.53 ft / 2.60 m
     Main Belt covers 144 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.36" / 60 mm     -           -
   2nd:   2.36" / 60 mm     -           -
   3rd:   2.36" / 60 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 0.98" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 0.79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 0.79" / 20 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8 046 ihp / 6 002 Kw = 17.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 581 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   314 - 409

Cost:
   £0.475 million / $1.899 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 85 tons, 1.6 %
     - Guns: 85 tons, 1.6 %
   Armour: 742 tons, 13.7 %
     - Belts: 490 tons, 9.1 %
     - Armament: 38 tons, 0.7 %
     - Armour Deck: 188 tons, 3.5 %
     - Conning Tower: 26 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1 972 tons, 36.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 800 tons, 33.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 507 tons, 9.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 5.5 %
     - Above deck: 300 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2 768 lbs / 1 256 Kg = 17.8 x 7.6 " / 194 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.62
   Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 13.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 93 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.10
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.87

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.599
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.33 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.75 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   15.00 %, 19.03 ft / 5.80 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
     - Forward deck:   35.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
     - Average freeboard:      14.45 ft / 4.40 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 124.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 88.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 10 581 Square feet or 983 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 104 lbs/sq ft or 508 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 2.00
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on August 06, 2013, 04:44:44 AM

Armored Gunboat
6 ships in the Plan

AGB-A, France AGB-A laid down 1870

Displacement:
   2 600 t light; 2 739 t standard; 2 954 t normal; 3 126 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (242.78 ft / 236.22 ft) x 42.65 ft (Bulges 49.21 ft) x (14.82 / 15.64 ft)
   (74.00 m / 72.00 m) x 13.00 m (Bulges 15.00 m) x (4.52 / 4.77 m)

Armament:
2 - 7.64" / 194 mm 20.0 cal guns - 167.09lbs / 75.79kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 - 7.64" / 194 mm 20.0 cal guns - 167.09lbs / 75.79kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
4 - 6.46" / 164 mm 30.0 cal guns - 103.79lbs / 47.08kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.67lbs / 1.21kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
4 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1 094 lbs / 496 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   236.22 ft / 72.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
   Upper:   2.36" / 60 mm   131.23 ft / 40.00 m   8.53 ft / 2.60 m
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.36" / 60 mm     -           -
   2nd:   2.36" / 60 mm     -           -
   3rd:   2.36" / 60 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 0.98" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 0.79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 0.79" / 20 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2 889 ihp / 2 156 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 386 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   199 - 260

Cost:
   £0.218 million / $0.871 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 87 tons, 2.9 %
     - Guns: 87 tons, 2.9 %
   Armour: 582 tons, 19.7 %
     - Belts: 394 tons, 13.3 %
     - Armament: 39 tons, 1.3 %
     - Armour Deck: 131 tons, 4.4 %
     - Conning Tower: 17 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 708 tons, 24.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 048 tons, 35.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 354 tons, 12.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 175 tons, 5.9 %
     - Above deck: 175 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2 728 lbs / 1 237 Kg = 17.5 x 7.6 " / 194 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.48
   Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 12.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.27
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.602
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.37 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   15.00 %, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Forward deck:   35.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      13.60 ft / 4.14 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 7 369 Square feet or 685 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 92 lbs/sq ft or 451 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.88
      - Longitudinal: 3.21
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on August 06, 2013, 04:46:20 AM

2nd class BB
4 ships in the Plan

2nd class BB, France BB-B laid down 1870

Displacement:
   5 220 t light; 5 499 t standard; 5 835 t normal; 6 103 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (319.12 ft / 313.12 ft) x 42.65 ft (Bulges 59.06 ft) x (18.41 / 19.37 ft)
   (97.27 m / 95.44 m) x 13.00 m (Bulges 18.00 m) x (5.61 / 5.90 m)

Armament:
2 - 10.79" / 274 mm 20.0 cal guns - 470.75lbs / 213.53kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 10.79" / 274 mm 20.0 cal guns - 470.75lbs / 213.53kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
8 - 5.51" / 140 mm 30.0 cal guns - 64.57lbs / 29.29kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.67lbs / 1.21kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
      8 raised mounts
4 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 500 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3 363 lbs / 1 525 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   311.68 ft / 95.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   7.87" / 200 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   8.53 ft / 2.60 m
     Main Belt covers 153 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm     -         3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm     -         3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm     -           -
   5th:   0.98" / 25 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.57" / 40 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 4 009 ihp / 2 991 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 604 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   333 - 433

Cost:
   £0.397 million / $1.586 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 209 tons, 3.6 %
     - Guns: 209 tons, 3.6 %
   Armour: 1 625 tons, 27.9 %
     - Belts: 1 230 tons, 21.1 %
     - Armament: 78 tons, 1.3 %
     - Armour Deck: 276 tons, 4.7 %
     - Conning Tower: 41 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 983 tons, 16.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 043 tons, 35.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 614 tons, 10.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 360 tons, 6.2 %
     - On freeboard deck: 30 tons
     - Above deck: 330 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5 710 lbs / 2 590 Kg = 13.0 x 10.8 " / 274 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.37
   Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 15.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.596
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.30 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.70 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   15.00 %, 19.03 ft / 5.80 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
     - Forward deck:   35.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
     - Average freeboard:      14.45 ft / 4.40 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 69.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 77.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 9 768 Square feet or 907 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 125 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 121 lbs/sq ft or 593 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.46
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on August 06, 2013, 04:59:13 AM

First class BB
2 ships in the Plan

BB-A, France BB-A laid down 1870

Displacement:
   7 280 t light; 7 669 t standard; 8 076 t normal; 8 402 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (328.08 ft / 321.52 ft) x 49.21 ft (Bulges 65.62 ft) x (22.33 / 23.31 ft)
   (100.00 m / 98.00 m) x 15.00 m (Bulges 20.00 m) x (6.81 / 7.11 m)

Armament:
2 - 10.79" / 274 mm 20.0 cal guns - 470.75lbs / 213.53kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 13.39" / 340 mm 20.0 cal guns - 899.46lbs / 407.99kg shells, 70 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
8 - 5.51" / 140 mm 30.0 cal guns - 64.57lbs / 29.29kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.67lbs / 1.21kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
8 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5 078 lbs / 2 303 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   314.96 ft / 96.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   11.8" / 300 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   9.19 ft / 2.80 m
     Main Belt covers 151 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm     -         3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm     -         7.87" / 200 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm     -           -
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.77" / 45 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 4 855 ihp / 3 622 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 733 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   425 - 553

Cost:
   £0.533 million / $2.133 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 292 tons, 3.6 %
     - Guns: 292 tons, 3.6 %
   Armour: 2 669 tons, 33.0 %
     - Belts: 2 149 tons, 26.6 %
     - Armament: 114 tons, 1.4 %
     - Armour Deck: 354 tons, 4.4 %
     - Conning Tower: 51 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 1 190 tons, 14.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 659 tons, 32.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 796 tons, 9.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 470 tons, 5.8 %
     - On freeboard deck: 50 tons
     - Above deck: 420 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8 303 lbs / 3 766 Kg = 18.9 x 10.8 " / 274 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.37
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 15.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.598
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.90 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.93 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   10.00 %, 19.03 ft / 5.80 m, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
     - Forward deck:   25.00 %, 14.44 ft / 4.40 m, 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
     - Aft deck:   40.00 %, 14.44 ft / 4.40 m, 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
     - Quarter deck:   25.00 %, 14.44 ft / 4.40 m, 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
     - Average freeboard:      14.86 ft / 4.53 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 63.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 74.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 11 573 Square feet or 1 075 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 123 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 137 lbs/sq ft or 670 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.78
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on August 12, 2013, 10:22:11 AM

Rework to 6x4 Plan...

TYPE	technos	Name	NORMAL DISP.	Qty	Tot Dis	DIM	ARMAMENT	SPEED & RANGE	ARMOR

BB-A	1870	Audacieux-Arrogant-Agile-Ardent	6000	3	18000	90x18x6.5	6x274+4x194+4x47	14kts-3000nm/7kts	B300-D40
BB-B	1870	Brave-Brillant-Belliqueux-Bonnaventure-Bienveillant-Brigand	4640	6	27840	85x16x6.31	6x240+4x194+4x47	14kts-3000nm/7kts	B200-D35
F-C	1870	Courageux-Citoyen-Cavalier-Céleste-Champion-Chanceux-Clairvoyant-Coléreux-Combatant-Curieux-Capricieux-Calculateur-Chasseur-Confiant-Courtois-Chevalier	1820	16	29120	73x14x3.35	4x194+2x140+2x47	14kts-3000nm/7kts	C100-B25-D25
F-A	1870		2135	12	25620	73x14x4.06	6x140+4x47+4x13	16kts-3000nm/7kts
GB1	1870		860	12	10320	49x10x3.26	2x140+2x100+4x47+2x13	14kts-3000nm/7kts
GB2	1870		200	12	2400	38x7x1.54	2x100+2x47+2x13	10kts-2000nm/7kts

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on August 13, 2013, 07:06:15 AM

(http://imageshack.us/scaled/medium/571/ujld.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/571/ujld.png/)

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on August 14, 2013, 04:23:20 AM

F-4x194, France F laid down 1870

Displacement:
   1 820 t light; 1 918 t standard; 2 099 t normal; 2 244 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (246.06 ft / 239.50 ft) x 32.81 ft (Bulges 45.93 ft) x (10.67 / 11.53 ft)
   (75.00 m / 73.00 m) x 10.00 m (Bulges 14.00 m) x (3.25 / 3.51 m)

Armament:
4 - 7.64" / 194 mm 20.0 cal guns - 167.09lbs / 75.79kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 - 5.51" / 140 mm 30.0 cal guns - 64.57lbs / 29.29kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.67lbs / 1.21kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
      2 raised mounts
2 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
      2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 803 lbs / 364 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   157.48 ft / 48.00 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm     45.93 ft / 14.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm     -         0.79" / 20 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm     -           -
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 0.98" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 0.79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 0.79" / 20 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2 385 ihp / 1 779 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 326 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   154 - 201

Cost:
   £0.164 million / $0.656 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 57 tons, 2.7 %
     - Guns: 57 tons, 2.7 %
   Armour: 263 tons, 12.5 %
     - Belts: 132 tons, 6.3 %
     - Armament: 24 tons, 1.1 %
     - Armour Deck: 104 tons, 4.9 %
     - Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 585 tons, 27.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 810 tons, 38.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 279 tons, 13.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 105 tons, 5.0 %
     - Above deck: 105 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1 814 lbs / 823 Kg = 11.6 x 7.6 " / 194 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.68
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 13.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 89 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.20
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.79

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.626 / 0.619
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.21 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   18.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     - Forward deck:   32.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     - Aft deck:   32.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     - Quarter deck:   18.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     - Average freeboard:      10.54 ft / 3.21 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 86.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 5 888 Square feet or 547 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 123 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 85 lbs/sq ft or 417 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.84
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

When the belt increase to 100mm, similar to central citadel, light displacement increase to 2000t.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on August 14, 2013, 05:49:20 AM

A 25mm belt is pretty marginal: it might shatter inbound medium shells, or it might not do so.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on August 14, 2013, 06:14:30 AM

QuoteA 25mm belt is pretty marginal: it might shatter inbound medium shells, or it might not do so.

I know,
Originaly this class was a Squadron Gunboat with 194mm guns.
Admiralty prefer a protected citadel (100mm) for the 194 guns but the hull is always a heavy gunboat.
Belt could be perhaps increase to 100mm & displacement to 2000t with the starting budget... (?)

Jef

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on September 01, 2013, 04:20:13 PM

For the moment, I made no modif on my last 6x4 Plan.
All SS are ready.
The only modif to come is perhaps the Courageux class, updated from 1820 to 2000t.

Jef ;)

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on September 10, 2013, 04:18:10 AM

Testing a 50m ship

50m, France 2x194+4x140 laid down 1870

Displacement:
   895 t light; 962 t standard; 1 064 t normal; 1 146 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (164.04 ft / 157.48 ft) x 19.69 ft (Bulges 24.93 ft) x (15.55 / 16.81 ft)
   (50.00 m / 48.00 m) x 6.00 m (Bulges 7.60 m) x (4.74 / 5.12 m)

Armament:
2 - 7.64" / 194 mm 20.0 cal guns - 167.09lbs / 75.79kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 5.51" / 140 mm 30.0 cal guns - 64.57lbs / 29.29kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.67lbs / 1.21kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 603 lbs / 274 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   141.08 ft / 43.00 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 138 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm     -         0.79" / 20 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm     -         0.79" / 20 mm
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 0.98" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 0.79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 0.79" / 20 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 1 737 ihp / 1 296 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 2 700nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 185 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   93 - 121

Cost:
   £0.102 million / $0.410 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 50 tons, 4.7 %
     - Guns: 50 tons, 4.7 %
   Armour: 92 tons, 8.6 %
     - Belts: 36 tons, 3.4 %
     - Armament: 13 tons, 1.2 %
     - Armour Deck: 40 tons, 3.8 %
     - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 395 tons, 37.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 283 tons, 26.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 169 tons, 15.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 7.0 %
     - Above deck: 75 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     292 lbs / 132 Kg = 1.9 x 7.6 " / 194 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 0.5 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 14.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.610 / 0.608
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.32 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 12.55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   16.00 %, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m, 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
     - Forward deck:   33.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     - Aft deck:   33.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   18.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      7.23 ft / 2.20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 137.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 30.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 2 289 Square feet or 213 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 62 lbs/sq ft or 302 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.86
      - Longitudinal: 3.91
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on September 11, 2013, 08:59:57 AM

C class, 1820t & 16 ships is removed from the plan.
This 1400t is in the plan with 24 ships.

69m, France 4x194+3x164+4x47+4x13 laid down 1870

Displacement:
   1 400 t light; 1 505 t standard; 1 641 t normal; 1 749 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (226.38 ft / 219.82 ft) x 22.97 ft (Bulges 31.50 ft) x (13.60 / 14.61 ft)
   (69.00 m / 67.00 m) x 7.00 m (Bulges 9.60 m) x (4.14 / 4.45 m)

Armament:
4 - 7.64" / 194 mm 20.0 cal guns - 167.09lbs / 75.79kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 - 6.46" / 164 mm 30.0 cal guns - 103.79lbs / 47.08kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward
1 - 6.46" / 164 mm 30.0 cal gun - 103.79lbs / 47.08kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading gun in casemate mount, 1870 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.67lbs / 1.21kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 991 lbs / 449 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm   167.32 ft / 51.00 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 117 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm     -         1.57" / 40 mm
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm     -         1.18" / 30 mm
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.57" / 40 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 1.57" / 40 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 1 976 ihp / 1 474 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 2 700nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 244 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   128 - 167

Cost:
   £0.141 million / $0.565 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 76 tons, 4.7 %
     - Guns: 76 tons, 4.7 %
   Armour: 200 tons, 12.2 %
     - Belts: 70 tons, 4.3 %
     - Armament: 25 tons, 1.5 %
     - Armour Deck: 101 tons, 6.2 %
     - Conning Tower: 5 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 484 tons, 29.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 524 tons, 32.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 240 tons, 14.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 115 tons, 7.0 %
     - Above deck: 115 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     754 lbs / 342 Kg = 4.8 x 7.6 " / 194 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
   Metacentric height 0.8 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 14.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 91 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.82

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.610 / 0.605
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.98 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   18.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     - Forward deck:   32.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     - Aft deck:   32.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     - Quarter deck:   18.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     - Average freeboard:      8.68 ft / 2.64 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 113.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 43.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 3 727 Square feet or 346 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 74 lbs/sq ft or 360 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.27
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on September 11, 2013, 09:06:45 AM

What's the role for this vessel?

Looks like it has masts and sails, but I'm not sure. If it does, the aft casemate will have limited arcs because of the rigging.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on September 11, 2013, 09:31:44 AM

QuoteWhat's the role for this vessel?

Have French semi heavy guns every where on all oceans.
Add semi heavy guns in the Battleline

QuoteLooks like it has masts and sails, but I'm not sure. If it does, the aft casemate will have limited arcs because of the rigging.

That's just a drawing problem, easy to resolve.

Jef

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on September 11, 2013, 10:12:42 AM

Quote from: Jefgte on September 11, 2013, 09:31:44 AM
QuoteWhat's the role for this vessel?

Have French semi heavy guns every where on all oceans.
Add semi heavy guns in the Battleline

So, that means the French battle line speed is going to be 14 knots?

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on September 11, 2013, 10:30:27 AM

QuoteSo, that means the French battle line speed is going to be 14 knots?

Yes, 14kts for 9 BBs + 24 Armored Gunboats & 16kts for the scout cruisers.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on September 12, 2013, 09:50:30 AM

Working on the starting spreadsheet...

Actual composition of the Fleet

Class	# in class	Light displacement	Class tonnage
BB class A - Audacieux	3	6000	18000
BB class B - Brave	6	4640	27840
AGB class C - Chevalier	8	2360	18880
AGB class D - Décidée	16	1400	22400		33 Combat ships	14kts
SC class A -	12	2135	25620		12 Scout ships	16kts
GB1	12	860	10320		12 Station ships	14kts
GB2	12	200	2400		12 Patrol ships
	0	0	0
	0	0	0
	0	0	0
	0	0	0
	0	0	0
	0	0	0
	0	0	0
	0	0	0

	Total ships=	69		Tonnage =	125460

Adjustements are probable...

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: eltf177 on September 12, 2013, 11:56:51 AM

It appears that the 69m design has no heavy forward firing guns except for the forward beam casemates...

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on September 12, 2013, 12:01:07 PM

A not uncommon problem for ships with sails & rigging.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on September 12, 2013, 03:32:43 PM

Heavy guns are in the side citadelle...

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on September 23, 2013, 08:20:53 AM

Ram/Gunboat to close a strait before torpedoes born

1200t, 52m, France 1x240+1x140 laid down 1870

Displacement:
   1 200 t light; 1 234 t standard; 1 261 t normal; 1 283 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (177.17 ft / 170.60 ft) x 22.97 ft (Bulges 29.53 ft) x (13.78 / 14.04 ft)
   (54.00 m / 52.00 m) x 7.00 m (Bulges 9.00 m) x (4.20 / 4.28 m)

Armament:
1 - 9.45" / 240 mm 20.0 cal gun - 316.36lbs / 143.50kg shells, 30 per gun
     Breech loading gun in casemate mount, 1870 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 - 5.51" / 140 mm 20.0 cal gun - 62.80lbs / 28.48kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading gun in casemate mount, 1870 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.67lbs / 1.21kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 390 lbs / 177 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm     49.21 ft / 15.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     121.39 ft / 37.00 m Unarmoured ends

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm     -         1.18" / 30 mm
   2nd:   1.18" / 30 mm     -         0.79" / 20 mm
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 0.00" / 0 mm
   Forecastle: 3.94" / 100 mm Quarter deck: 0.00" / 0 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3 300 ihp / 2 462 Kw = 16.01 kts
   Range 540nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 50 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   105 - 137

Cost:
   £0.135 million / $0.540 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 27 tons, 2.1 %
     - Guns: 27 tons, 2.1 %
   Armour: 79 tons, 6.3 %
     - Belts: 28 tons, 2.2 %
     - Armament: 16 tons, 1.3 %
     - Armour Deck: 25 tons, 2.0 %
     - Conning Tower: 10 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 603 tons, 47.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 402 tons, 31.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 62 tons, 4.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 88 tons, 7.0 %
     - Above deck: 88 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     331 lbs / 150 Kg = 1.1 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 0.8 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 14.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.636 / 0.635
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.78 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 13.06 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   24.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 6.89 ft / 2.10 m
     - Forward deck:   33.00 %, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
     - Aft deck:   25.00 %, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
     - Quarter deck:   18.00 %, 6.89 ft / 2.10 m, 6.89 ft / 2.10 m
     - Average freeboard:      9.65 ft / 2.94 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 161.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 61.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 2 963 Square feet or 275 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 68 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 66 lbs/sq ft or 320 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.86
      - Longitudinal: 4.17
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on November 15, 2013, 02:11:06 AM

Testing a spare boat to protect harbors & straits patrols

1870-Spare ship, France 80t-100kg+1x37 laid down 1870

Displacement:
   80 t light; 82 t standard; 84 t normal; 85 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (124.67 ft / 124.67 ft) x 13.78 ft x (4.27 / 4.31 ft)
   (38.00 m / 38.00 m) x 4.20 m x (1.30 / 1.31 m)

Armament:
1 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 1.08lbs / 0.49kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1870 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck aft
Weight of broadside 1 lbs / 0 kg

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 937 ihp / 699 Kw = 17.95 kts
   Range 100nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   13 - 17

Cost:
   £0.010 million / $0.040 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0.4 %
     - Guns: 0 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 51 tons, 60.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 25 tons, 30.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 tons, 3.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 4 tons, 5.0 %
     - Hull below water: 4 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12 lbs / 6 Kg = 11.3 x 1.5 " / 37 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.44
   Metacentric height 0.5 ft / 0.1 m
   Roll period: 8.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.08

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.400 / 0.402
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.05 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 11.17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   18.00 %, 7.22 ft / 2.20 m, 5.58 ft / 1.70 m
     - Forward deck:   32.00 %, 5.58 ft / 1.70 m, 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 4.92 ft / 1.50 m, 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 4.92 ft / 1.50 m, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m
     - Average freeboard:      5.24 ft / 1.60 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 202.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 78.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 1 057 Square feet or 98 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 18 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 14 lbs/sq ft or 67 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.45
      - Longitudinal: 1.21
      - Overall: 0.50
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

100kg dynamite on a 12m spare
This ship is also equipped with sails

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on November 15, 2013, 05:33:11 AM

Ah, a spar torpedo boat. (The extra "e" was confusing me more than a little.) The Austrians have something similar, though a bit larger, to perform the same role.

Your note says this vessel also has sails, but I don't see any weight allocation for masts. Also, isn't she a bit slow to use the DD/TB weak hull rules?

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on November 15, 2013, 07:08:41 AM

Quote(The extra "e" was confusing me more than a little.)

Sorry, that's a confuse translate :-\

QuoteYour note says this vessel also has sails, but I don't see any weight allocation for masts. Also, isn't she a bit slow to use the DD/TB weak hull rules?

Misc weight is 4.2t => 4t are for mast & sails
This is a fast ship, a kind of pre TD.

--
First real French TB are for 1875

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_torpilleurs_num%C3%A9rot%C3%A9s_de_la_Marine_fran%C3%A7aise

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on November 15, 2013, 08:10:57 AM

Ah, ok, if the current misc weight is for sails, it should be above decks, and you should add some for the spar and torpedo.

Hmmmm. Got to think about the TB/DD rules for 1870.....

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on November 15, 2013, 08:26:45 AM

Don't " hmmmm..."

I re SS with overall: 1.00

;)

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on November 15, 2013, 08:48:14 AM

:)

The issue, of course, is that the current design rules all start at 1880, while we're starting at 1870. That's why I raised the question over here: http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,6386.msg83187.html#msg83187, though that question was a little more wide-ranging.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on November 15, 2013, 09:13:35 AM

OK, minor tweaks to the Naval Technology rules, adding an 1865 tech level that covers turret ships, central-battery ships, and broadside ironclads, along with spar-torpedo vessels.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on November 21, 2013, 05:16:53 PM

I have re SS the BBs to have a 12kts sails speed.

Here are the 6x274 & 6x240

BB-6x274, France BB laid down 1870

Displacement:
   6 300 t light; 6 602 t standard; 6 969 t normal; 7 263 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (301.84 ft / 295.28 ft) x 52.49 ft (Bulges 59.06 ft) x (22.35 / 23.23 ft)
   (92.00 m / 90.00 m) x 16.00 m (Bulges 18.00 m) x (6.81 / 7.08 m)

Armament:
2 - 10.79" / 274 mm 20.0 cal guns - 470.75lbs / 213.53kg shells, 75 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 10.79" / 274 mm 20.0 cal guns - 470.75lbs / 213.53kg shells, 75 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 7.64" / 194 mm 20.0 cal guns - 167.09lbs / 75.79kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.67lbs / 1.21kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
      4 raised mounts
4 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3 504 lbs / 1 589 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   196.85 ft / 60.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
   Ends:   7.87" / 200 mm     98.43 ft / 30.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
   Upper:   5.91" / 150 mm   196.85 ft / 60.00 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm     -         7.87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm     -           -
   3rd:   1.97" / 50 mm     -           -
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -
   5th:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.57" / 40 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 4 546 ihp / 3 391 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 660 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   380 - 495

Cost:
   £0.450 million / $1.799 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 199 tons, 2.8 %
     - Guns: 199 tons, 2.8 %
   Armour: 2 138 tons, 30.7 %
     - Belts: 1 648 tons, 23.6 %
     - Armament: 101 tons, 1.5 %
     - Armour Deck: 327 tons, 4.7 %
     - Conning Tower: 62 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1 114 tons, 16.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 261 tons, 32.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 670 tons, 9.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 588 tons, 8.4 %
     - Above deck: 588 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7 435 lbs / 3 372 Kg = 16.9 x 10.8 " / 274 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
   Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.626 / 0.628
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   16.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     - Forward deck:   32.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Aft deck:   36.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Quarter deck:   16.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     - Average freeboard:      14.61 ft / 4.45 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 64.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 91.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 11 614 Square feet or 1 079 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 123 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 125 lbs/sq ft or 612 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.89
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

saisl speed:17.18kts:2=8.59+3.43kts=12.02kts
--
BB-6x240, France BB laid down 1870

Displacement:
   4 760 t light; 4 991 t standard; 5 299 t normal; 5 546 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (285.43 ft / 278.87 ft) x 45.93 ft (Bulges 52.49 ft) x (20.57 / 21.48 ft)
   (87.00 m / 85.00 m) x 14.00 m (Bulges 16.00 m) x (6.27 / 6.55 m)

Armament:
2 - 9.45" / 240 mm 20.0 cal guns - 316.36lbs / 143.50kg shells, 75 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 9.45" / 240 mm 20.0 cal guns - 316.36lbs / 143.50kg shells, 75 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 7.64" / 194 mm 20.0 cal guns - 167.09lbs / 75.79kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.67lbs / 1.21kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
      4 raised mounts
4 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2 577 lbs / 1 169 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   180.45 ft / 55.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
   Ends:   5.91" / 150 mm     65.62 ft / 20.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     32.81 ft / 10.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   5.91" / 150 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm     -         7.87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm     -           -
   3rd:   1.97" / 50 mm     -           -
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -
   5th:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.38" / 35 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3 874 ihp / 2 890 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 555 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   309 - 403

Cost:
   £0.354 million / $1.414 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 167 tons, 3.1 %
     - Guns: 167 tons, 3.1 %
   Armour: 1 500 tons, 28.3 %
     - Belts: 1 123 tons, 21.2 %
     - Armament: 93 tons, 1.8 %
     - Armour Deck: 233 tons, 4.4 %
     - Conning Tower: 52 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 950 tons, 17.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 684 tons, 31.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 539 tons, 10.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 460 tons, 8.7 %
     - Above deck: 460 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4 860 lbs / 2 204 Kg = 16.5 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 14.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.616 / 0.617
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.31 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.70 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   16.00 %, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
     - Forward deck:   32.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Aft deck:   36.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   16.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      13.75 ft / 4.19 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 76.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 9 509 Square feet or 883 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 111 lbs/sq ft or 543 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.85
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

sails speed:16.7kts:2=8.35kts+3.7kts=12.05kts

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on November 22, 2013, 05:17:37 AM

The question I'd have with these two is on the centerline casemate mounts: given that these ships have masts and rigging, a centerline casemate isn't going to have very good arcs at all. This might be a time for a tumblehome central battery arrangement, if you're wanting to have some end-on fire capability.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on November 22, 2013, 08:39:50 AM

Quote...a centerline casemate isn't going to have very good arcs at all

These are Centerline ends => bow & stern or forecastel & quarterdeck position.

Jef ;)

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on November 22, 2013, 08:56:25 AM

Here are the 2470t "Frégate Cuirassée" (8 ships) & the 1475t "Cannonière Cuirassée" (16 ships)
Recalculate for 12kts sails speed.

AGB, France 2x240+6x194+4x47+4x13 laid down 1870

Displacement:
   2 470 t light; 2 613 t standard; 2 821 t normal; 2 987 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (242.78 ft / 236.22 ft) x 32.81 ft (Bulges 41.01 ft) x (16.28 / 17.28 ft)
   (74.00 m / 72.00 m) x 10.00 m (Bulges 12.50 m) x (4.96 / 5.27 m)

Armament:
2 - 9.45" / 240 mm 20.0 cal guns - 316.36lbs / 143.50kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 7.64" / 194 mm 30.0 cal guns - 171.81lbs / 77.93kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.67lbs / 1.21kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1 674 lbs / 760 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   157.48 ft / 48.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm     39.37 ft / 12.00 m   7.22 ft / 2.20 m
     39.37 ft / 12.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm     -         1.57" / 40 mm
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm     -         1.18" / 30 mm
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.38" / 35 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2 756 ihp / 2 056 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 373 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   193 - 251

Cost:
   £0.227 million / $0.908 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 143 tons, 5.1 %
     - Guns: 143 tons, 5.1 %
   Armour: 535 tons, 19.0 %
     - Belts: 330 tons, 11.7 %
     - Armament: 46 tons, 1.6 %
     - Armour Deck: 142 tons, 5.0 %
     - Conning Tower: 17 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 676 tons, 23.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 852 tons, 30.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 351 tons, 12.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 265 tons, 9.4 %
     - Above deck: 265 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1 883 lbs / 854 Kg = 6.4 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 14.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.55

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.626 / 0.624
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.76 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.37 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   16.00 %, 9.19 ft / 2.80 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     - Forward deck:   32.00 %, 10.17 ft / 3.10 m, 10.17 ft / 3.10 m
     - Aft deck:   37.00 %, 10.17 ft / 3.10 m, 10.17 ft / 3.10 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      9.22 ft / 2.81 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 58.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 5 807 Square feet or 539 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 92 lbs/sq ft or 451 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.27
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Misc Weight: 9.5% - 264t
Natural speed is 15.37kts.
5% of the ship Normal Displacement (142t) give a speed of 15.37kts:2= 7.68kts.
Plus an additionnal of 4.5%
Speed under sails is 7.68+4.4=12.08kts

--
69m, France 4x194+3x164+4x47+4x13 laid down 1870

Displacement:
   1 475 t light; 1 582 t standard; 1 737 t normal; 1 860 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (226.38 ft / 219.82 ft) x 22.97 ft (Bulges 31.50 ft) x (14.39 / 15.55 ft)
   (69.00 m / 67.00 m) x 7.00 m (Bulges 9.60 m) x (4.39 / 4.74 m)

Armament:
4 - 7.64" / 194 mm 20.0 cal guns - 167.09lbs / 75.79kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 - 6.46" / 164 mm 30.0 cal guns - 103.79lbs / 47.08kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward
1 - 6.46" / 164 mm 30.0 cal gun - 103.79lbs / 47.08kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading gun in casemate mount, 1870 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.67lbs / 1.21kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 991 lbs / 449 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm   167.32 ft / 51.00 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 117 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm     -         1.57" / 40 mm
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm     -         1.18" / 30 mm
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.57" / 40 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 1.57" / 40 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2 045 ihp / 1 526 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 278 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   133 - 174

Cost:
   £0.146 million / $0.585 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 76 tons, 4.4 %
     - Guns: 76 tons, 4.4 %
   Armour: 201 tons, 11.6 %
     - Belts: 70 tons, 4.0 %
     - Armament: 25 tons, 1.4 %
     - Armour Deck: 101 tons, 5.8 %
     - Conning Tower: 5 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 501 tons, 28.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 531 tons, 30.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 261 tons, 15.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 166 tons, 9.6 %
     - Above deck: 166 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     797 lbs / 362 Kg = 5.1 x 7.6 " / 194 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 0.7 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 15.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 89 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.78

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.610 / 0.605
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.98 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   18.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     - Forward deck:   32.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     - Aft deck:   32.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     - Quarter deck:   18.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     - Average freeboard:      8.68 ft / 2.64 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 110.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 42.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 3 727 Square feet or 346 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 73 lbs/sq ft or 358 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.33
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Misc weight: 9.6% - 166t
Half natural speed: 7.4kts
Saisl Speed: 7.4kts + 4.6kts = 12kts

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on November 22, 2013, 10:25:33 AM

Quote from: Jefgte on November 22, 2013, 08:39:50 AM
Quote...a centerline casemate isn't going to have very good arcs at all

These are Centerline ends => bow & stern or forecastel & quarterdeck position.

Jef ;)

Centerline ends normally means that they're at the fore and aft ends of the main deck, SS doesn't put them on the forecastle or the quarterdeck. In the case of the ship with the 274s, that puts her bow gun 16% aft of the bow. Looking at the 1869 Richelieu, probably the best way to sim this sort of thing (chase guns for the sailing period) will be to use below-decks casemates or broadside mounts and note that they're chase guns in the notes section of the design.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on November 22, 2013, 10:50:45 AM

On the Frégate Cuirassée, I assume the intent is for the 240s to be chase guns, with the 194s on the broadside. Are you sure, though, that you want to mount the heaviest guns on the vessels as chase guns?

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on November 23, 2013, 04:20:54 PM

Have a look here:

http://forummarine.forumactif.com/t5520p45-la-marine-nationnale-de-1861-a

on the 1872 Infatigable class

That is the disposition adopted for the fore & aft cupola barbettes.

Jef ;)

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on November 24, 2013, 03:41:49 AM

Ah, OK. Looks like what you're looking for on the fore and aft mounts on THIS ship is a barbette mount, rather than a casemate. Isn't it a little bit too early for covered barbettes, though?

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on November 24, 2013, 07:10:38 AM

The drawing is for the disposition of the fore & aft casemate.
If we could have barbette, no problemo to have casemate in the same place.

Jef ;)

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on November 24, 2013, 04:07:42 PM

Installing a casemate's not the problem, it's really more that casemates' have limited arcs and mounting them fore or aft at this period, on a ship with sails, results in a limited arc of fire. An open barbette mounting would be fine as far as I'm concerned, though.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on November 24, 2013, 04:27:54 PM

For boardside guns installation, casemate, citadel, it's difficult to have more than 60° (30° fore & 30° aft)
With great French tumblehome, 100° is the curent number.
1870 designs had small tumblehome. Wait 1874-75 to have great thumblehome.

For centerline, fore & aft, have more than 120° is difficult (60° each side)
Hmmmm, A top design study could be interresting...

Jef ;)

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on December 12, 2013, 03:43:54 AM

I have noted that French ships are undergunned vs all stranger designs.
I have more ships (74) but smaller.

I "ll rework all SS to increase firepower & reduce a little the number of ships.

Jef

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on December 13, 2013, 10:21:58 AM

First class BB

Update from 6x274 to 8x274

BB-8x274+4x194, France BB laid down 1870

Displacement:
   6 540 t light; 6 888 t standard; 7 264 t normal; 7 565 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (301.84 ft / 295.28 ft) x 52.49 ft (Bulges 59.06 ft) x (23.29 / 24.20 ft)
   (92.00 m / 90.00 m) x 16.00 m (Bulges 18.00 m) x (7.10 / 7.38 m)

Armament:
2 - 10.79" / 274 mm 20.0 cal guns - 470.75lbs / 213.53kg shells, 75 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 10.79" / 274 mm 20.0 cal guns - 470.75lbs / 213.53kg shells, 75 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 7.64" / 194 mm 20.0 cal guns - 167.09lbs / 75.79kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.67lbs / 1.21kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
      4 raised mounts
10 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 2 000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x 5-Reffye gun mounts on sides amidships
      2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4 446 lbs / 2 017 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   196.85 ft / 60.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
   Ends:   7.87" / 200 mm     98.43 ft / 30.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
   Upper:   5.91" / 150 mm   196.85 ft / 60.00 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm     -         7.87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm     -           -
   3rd:   1.97" / 50 mm     -           -
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -
   5th:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.57" / 40 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 4 657 ihp / 3 474 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 677 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   393 - 511

Cost:
   £0.482 million / $1.926 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 250 tons, 3.4 %
     - Guns: 250 tons, 3.4 %
   Armour: 2 161 tons, 29.8 %
     - Belts: 1 648 tons, 22.7 %
     - Armament: 124 tons, 1.7 %
     - Armour Deck: 327 tons, 4.5 %
     - Conning Tower: 64 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1 141 tons, 15.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 368 tons, 32.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 724 tons, 10.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 620 tons, 8.5 %
     - Above deck: 620 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7 396 lbs / 3 355 Kg = 16.8 x 10.8 " / 274 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
   Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.626 / 0.627
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   16.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     - Forward deck:   32.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Aft deck:   36.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Quarter deck:   16.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     - Average freeboard:      14.61 ft / 4.45 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 65.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 88.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 11 614 Square feet or 1 079 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 131 lbs/sq ft or 640 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.88
      - Longitudinal: 3.09
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

saisl speed:17.18kts:2=8.59+3.5kts=12.09kts

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on December 13, 2013, 10:40:37 AM

Centerline bow casemates, unless mounted below deck level (to signify they're in the bows) are going to have issues with the rigging on vessels that have sails. They'll certainly be able to shoot, just not directly ahead, for fear of hitting the foremast or the bowsprit and taking down the forward rigging.

Ram is perhaps a bit short for actual use, a little more length would be no bad thing.

She's certainly more weatherly than the American Congress-class. At a guess, I'd expect the gun layout along the sides to be 274 (with cutout to get more forward fire than normal) - 194 - 274 - 194 - 274 (with cutout to get more aft fire than normal).

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on December 13, 2013, 10:52:11 AM

That kind of disposition

-------------194---274--274--274---194---------
---274-M----------------M--------------------M-274-----
-------------194---274--274--274---194---------

M=> mast

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on December 13, 2013, 11:03:29 AM

Second class BB
Update from 6x240 to 8x240

BB-8x240+4x194, France BB laid down 1870

Displacement:
   4 920 t light; 5 182 t standard; 5 497 t normal; 5 749 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (285.43 ft / 278.87 ft) x 45.93 ft (Bulges 52.49 ft) x (21.34 / 22.26 ft)
   (87.00 m / 85.00 m) x 14.00 m (Bulges 16.00 m) x (6.50 / 6.79 m)

Armament:
2 - 9.45" / 240 mm 20.0 cal guns - 316.36lbs / 143.50kg shells, 75 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 9.45" / 240 mm 20.0 cal guns - 316.36lbs / 143.50kg shells, 75 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     6 x Single mounts on side ends, majority forward
4 - 7.64" / 194 mm 20.0 cal guns - 167.09lbs / 75.79kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.67lbs / 1.21kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
      4 raised mounts
10 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns Reffye- 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 2 000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x 5-gun mounts on sides amidships
      2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3 211 lbs / 1 456 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   180.45 ft / 55.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
   Ends:   5.91" / 150 mm     65.62 ft / 20.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     32.81 ft / 10.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   5.91" / 150 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm     -         7.87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm     -           -
   3rd:   1.97" / 50 mm     -           -
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -
   5th:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.38" / 35 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3 959 ihp / 2 953 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 567 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   318 - 414

Cost:
   £0.375 million / $1.501 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 207 tons, 3.8 %
     - Guns: 207 tons, 3.8 %
   Armour: 1 517 tons, 27.6 %
     - Belts: 1 123 tons, 20.4 %
     - Armament: 109 tons, 2.0 %
     - Armour Deck: 233 tons, 4.2 %
     - Conning Tower: 53 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 970 tons, 17.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 745 tons, 31.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 577 tons, 10.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 480 tons, 8.7 %
     - Above deck: 480 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4 847 lbs / 2 198 Kg = 16.4 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 15.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.616 / 0.617
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.31 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.70 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   16.00 %, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
     - Forward deck:   32.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Aft deck:   36.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   16.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      13.75 ft / 4.19 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 74.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 9 509 Square feet or 883 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 116 lbs/sq ft or 564 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.88
      - Longitudinal: 3.02
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

sails speed:16.7kts:2=8.35kts+3.7kts=12.05kts

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on December 13, 2013, 11:04:26 AM

Quote from: Jefgte on December 13, 2013, 10:52:11 AM
That kind of disposition

-------------194---274--274---194---------
---274-M------------M-----------------M-274-----
-------------194---274--274---194---------

M=> mast

You have 6 side-mounted 274's. :)

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on December 13, 2013, 11:07:49 AM

;)

That kind of disposition

-------------194---274--274--274---194---------
---274-M----------------M--------------------M-274---
-------------194---274--274--274---194---------

M=> mast

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on December 13, 2013, 11:08:59 AM

In that case, you may want to mark the 194s as being in side ends mountings.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on December 13, 2013, 11:11:08 AM

On the second-class BB, she has more upper beltarmor than she needs: with her main deck at 4m, 3.6m of upper belt pushes the main belt down so only .4m is above water at normal draft. Interesting the difference between the first and second-class BBs in their 13mm armament.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on December 13, 2013, 04:09:44 PM

BB-8x240+4x194, France BB laid down 1870

Displacement:
   4 765 t light; 5 023 t standard; 5 333 t normal; 5 581 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (285.43 ft / 278.87 ft) x 45.93 ft (Bulges 52.49 ft) x (20.70 / 21.61 ft)
   (87.00 m / 85.00 m) x 14.00 m (Bulges 16.00 m) x (6.31 / 6.59 m)

Armament:
2 - 9.45" / 240 mm 20.0 cal guns - 316.36lbs / 143.50kg shells, 75 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 9.45" / 240 mm 20.0 cal guns - 316.36lbs / 143.50kg shells, 75 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 7.64" / 194 mm 20.0 cal guns - 167.09lbs / 75.79kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.67lbs / 1.21kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
10 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 2 000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x 5-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3 211 lbs / 1 456 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   180.45 ft / 55.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
   Ends:   5.91" / 150 mm     65.62 ft / 20.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     32.81 ft / 10.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   5.91" / 150 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   9.19 ft / 2.80 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm     -         7.87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm     -           -
   3rd:   1.97" / 50 mm     -           -
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -
   5th:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.38" / 35 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3 889 ihp / 2 901 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 558 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   311 - 405

Cost:
   £0.368 million / $1.470 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 207 tons, 3.9 %
     - Guns: 207 tons, 3.9 %
   Armour: 1 402 tons, 26.3 %
     - Belts: 1 009 tons, 18.9 %
     - Armament: 109 tons, 2.0 %
     - Armour Deck: 233 tons, 4.4 %
     - Conning Tower: 52 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 953 tons, 17.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 737 tons, 32.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 568 tons, 10.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 465 tons, 8.7 %
     - Above deck: 465 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4 754 lbs / 2 157 Kg = 16.1 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 14.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.616 / 0.617
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.31 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.70 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   16.00 %, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
     - Forward deck:   32.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Aft deck:   36.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   16.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      13.75 ft / 4.19 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 76.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 9 509 Square feet or 883 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 116 lbs/sq ft or 566 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.98
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

sails speed:16.7kts:2=8.35kts+3.7kts=12.05kts
13.0 mm are light naval De Reffye machine gun - 5 guns per mount

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on December 14, 2013, 03:54:22 AM

Didn't the De Reffye mitrailleuse have 25 barrels per gun, not 5? Other than that, looks solid.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on December 14, 2013, 03:54:37 PM

QuoteDidn't the De Reffye mitrailleuse have 25 barrels per gun, not 5? Other than that, looks solid.

Exactly, a gun with 25 barrels.

But:
1- This is an infantry machine gun, for the navy, 25 barrels are certainly too much.
2- How SS 25 guns per mount ?

Jef

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on December 14, 2013, 04:30:32 PM

2x240+8x194+4x47+10x13, France Canonnière Cuirassée laid down 1870

Displacement:
   2 555 t light; 2 723 t standard; 2 936 t normal; 3 105 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (242.78 ft / 236.22 ft) x 32.81 ft (Bulges 41.01 ft) x (16.94 / 17.97 ft)
   (74.00 m / 72.00 m) x 10.00 m (Bulges 12.50 m) x (5.16 / 5.48 m)

Armament:
2 - 9.45" / 240 mm 20.0 cal guns - 316.36lbs / 143.50kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 7.64" / 194 mm 20.0 cal guns - 167.09lbs / 75.79kg shells, 108 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.67lbs / 1.21kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
10 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 2 000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Quintuple mounts on sides amidships
      2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1 981 lbs / 898 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   157.48 ft / 48.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm     39.37 ft / 12.00 m   7.22 ft / 2.20 m
     39.37 ft / 12.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm     -         1.57" / 40 mm
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm     -         1.18" / 30 mm
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -
   5th:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.38" / 35 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2 822 ihp / 2 105 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 382 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   199 - 259

Cost:
   £0.228 million / $0.912 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 129 tons, 4.4 %
     - Guns: 129 tons, 4.4 %
   Armour: 547 tons, 18.6 %
     - Belts: 330 tons, 11.2 %
     - Armament: 57 tons, 2.0 %
     - Armour Deck: 142 tons, 4.8 %
     - Conning Tower: 17 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 692 tons, 23.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 912 tons, 31.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 381 tons, 13.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 275 tons, 9.4 %
     - Above deck: 275 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1 963 lbs / 890 Kg = 6.6 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 14.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.53

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.626 / 0.624
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.76 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.37 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   16.00 %, 9.19 ft / 2.80 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     - Forward deck:   32.00 %, 10.17 ft / 3.10 m, 10.17 ft / 3.10 m
     - Aft deck:   37.00 %, 10.17 ft / 3.10 m, 10.17 ft / 3.10 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      9.22 ft / 2.81 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 56.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 5 807 Square feet or 539 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 96 lbs/sq ft or 471 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.42
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Misc Weight: 9.5% - 280t
Natural speed is 15.37kts.
5% of the ship Normal Displacement (142t) give a speed of 15.37kts:2= 7.68kts.
Plus an additionnal of 4.4%
Speed under sails is 7.68+4.4=12.08kts

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on December 15, 2013, 05:17:14 AM

Quote from: Jefgte on December 14, 2013, 03:54:37 PM
QuoteDidn't the De Reffye mitrailleuse have 25 barrels per gun, not 5? Other than that, looks solid.

Exactly, a gun with 25 barrels.

But:
1- This is an infantry machine gun, for the navy, 25 barrels are certainly too much.
2- How SS 25 guns per mount ?

Given the way the mitrailleuse wsa reloaded, you'd probably want more barrels than 5, since after 5 rounds you'd have to stop firing and reload. I'd recommend going with as many barrels as SS allows, which I think is 10.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on December 15, 2013, 05:31:48 AM

On the Canonnière Cuirassée, looks solid enough. The lack of upper belt armor is a design choice that allows heavier main belt armor. The former gives a target area for shells, but the latter makes it more difficult to punch holes that will actually sink the ship.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on December 15, 2013, 07:39:31 AM

QuoteGiven the way the mitrailleuse wsa reloaded, you'd probably want more barrels than 5, since after 5 rounds you'd have to stop firing and reload. I'd recommend going with as many barrels as SS allows, which I think is 10.

5 bullets is the standard reload system for De Reffye gun & used in the infantry too.
So 2x5 could be correct for "la Marine"

Jef

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on December 15, 2013, 04:32:05 PM

Canonnière de Station, France 8x194+4x47+20x13 laid down 1870

Displacement:
   1 595 t light; 1 725 t standard; 1 887 t normal; 2 017 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (226.38 ft / 219.82 ft) x 22.97 ft (Bulges 31.50 ft) x (15.24 / 16.44 ft)
   (69.00 m / 67.00 m) x 7.00 m (Bulges 9.60 m) x (4.65 / 5.01 m)

Armament:
2 - 7.64" / 194 mm 20.0 cal guns - 167.09lbs / 75.79kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 7.64" / 194 mm 20.0 cal guns - 167.09lbs / 75.79kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1870 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.67lbs / 1.21kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
20 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 2 000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x 2 row decuple mounts on sides amidships
      2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1 349 lbs / 612 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm     -         1.57" / 40 mm
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm     -         1.18" / 30 mm
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -
   5th:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.57" / 40 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 1.57" / 40 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2 161 ihp / 1 612 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 292 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   143 - 186

Cost:
   £0.159 million / $0.635 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 89 tons, 4.7 %
     - Guns: 89 tons, 4.7 %
   Armour: 213 tons, 11.3 %
     - Belts: 69 tons, 3.7 %
     - Armament: 37 tons, 1.9 %
     - Armour Deck: 103 tons, 5.4 %
     - Conning Tower: 5 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 530 tons, 28.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 579 tons, 30.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 292 tons, 15.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 183 tons, 9.7 %
     - Above deck: 183 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     848 lbs / 385 Kg = 5.4 x 7.6 " / 194 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 0.7 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 15.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 87 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1.06
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.74

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.626 / 0.620
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.98 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   18.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     - Forward deck:   32.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     - Aft deck:   32.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     - Quarter deck:   18.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     - Average freeboard:      8.68 ft / 2.64 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 109.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 39.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 3 783 Square feet or 351 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 78 lbs/sq ft or 383 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.60
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Misc weight: 9.7% - 183t
Half natural speed: 7.4kts
Saisl Speed: 7.4kts + 4.7kts = 12.1kts

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on December 17, 2013, 08:17:33 AM

A question on this vessel: in a France without colonies, what's her role? I mean, the class title suggests "station gunboat" (I'm guessing a bit, since I don't read French), but where would ships of this type be stationed before colonies are acquired? Or am I reading too much into the title?

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on December 17, 2013, 04:01:18 PM

"Canonnière de Station" could be "Canonnière de Ligne" or Canonnière d'Escadre => Squadron Gunboat
...

Jef ;)

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: KWorld on December 18, 2013, 08:09:44 AM

The USS Hornet, HMS Amethyst, and your Canonnière de Ligne make interesting comparisons. Amethyst isn't armored at all, which both of the others are, though Hornet and Canonnière de Ligne are armored in a different fashion from each other. Amethyst has all guns on the broadside, while Canonnière de Ligne has bow and stern casemate guns along with casemates on the sides, and Hornet has pivot guns fore and aft with broadside guns to the side. Amethyst is 1 knot faster than the other two under steam, while Hornet is faster than either of the others under sail.

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on April 19, 2014, 09:08:59 AM

TB74 to TB98, France TB6-380t laid down 1899 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   380 t light; 391 t standard; 445 t normal; 488 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (216.54 ft / 216.54 ft) x 24.05 ft x (7.48 / 7.95 ft)
   (66.00 m / 66.00 m) x 7.33 m x (2.28 / 2.42 m)

Armament:
2 - 2.56" / 65.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 8.45lbs / 3.83kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1899 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      1 raised mount - superfiring
2 - 2.56" / 65.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 8.45lbs / 3.83kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1899 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 76.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 0 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1899 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
Weight of broadside 34 lbs / 15 kg
Main Torpedoes
2 - 17.7" / 450 mm, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m torpedoes - 0.601 t each, 1.202 t total
   submerged bow tubes
2nd Torpedoes
2 - 17.7" / 450 mm, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m torpedoes - 0.601 t each, 1.202 t total
   In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.20" / 5 mm     -           -
   2nd:   0.20" / 5 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6 042 ihp / 4 507 Kw = 24.35 kts
   Range 2 500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 97 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   47 - 62

Cost:
   £0.052 million / $0.207 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 12 tons, 2.6 %
     - Guns: 7 tons, 1.5 %
     - Weapons: 5 tons, 1.1 %
   Armour: 2 tons, 0.4 %
     - Armament: 2 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 262 tons, 58.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 100 tons, 22.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 65 tons, 14.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 5 tons, 1.1 %
     - On freeboard deck: 5 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     89 lbs / 40 Kg = 10.7 x 2.6 " / 65 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.55
   Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 9.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.400 / 0.413
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.72 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 8.69 ft / 2.65 m, 8.37 ft / 2.55 m
     - Aft deck:   30.00 %, 8.37 ft / 2.55 m, 8.04 ft / 2.45 m
     - Quarter deck:   20.00 %, 8.04 ft / 2.45 m, 7.71 ft / 2.35 m
     - Average freeboard:      8.73 ft / 2.66 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 213.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 79.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 3 205 Square feet or 298 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 23 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 19 lbs/sq ft or 94 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.49
      - Longitudinal: 1.20
      - Overall: 0.54
   Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Trial speed: 28kts
Bonus: 3.65

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Walter on April 19, 2014, 09:25:24 AM

I think you may have selected the wrong French restart thread. :)

... and I spot a cross-sectional hull strength value of 0.49...

Title: Re: France 1870 restart
Post by: Jefgte on April 19, 2014, 09:38:22 AM

OUPS...

:-[

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Main Archive => NLogi => New Ships => Topic started by: Jefgte on July 18, 2013, 04:47:43 PM