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Main Archive => Armed Forces of Navalism 5 => Armed Forces => New Ships => Topic started by: KWorld on December 19, 2012, 07:40:07 AM

Title: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on December 19, 2012, 07:40:07 AM
Possible ships of the USN to be laid down after 1899.  By no means all of these designs will be produced, but some will and those that are will appear in the USN encyclopedia.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on December 19, 2012, 07:41:15 AM
A proposed refit of the New York-class ACs.

USS New York, United States Armored Cruiser laid down 1895 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   7,374 t light; 7,673 t standard; 8,290 t normal; 8,784 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (394.80 ft / 384.00 ft) x 65.00 ft x (23.25 / 24.29 ft)
   (120.34 m / 117.04 m) x 19.81 m  x (7.09 / 7.40 m)

Armament:
      4 - 8.00" / 203 mm 45.0 cal guns - 259.99lbs / 117.93kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1899 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      14 - 5.00" / 127 mm 50.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 180 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 13.01lbs / 5.90kg shells, 300 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,844 lbs / 836 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   276.48 ft / 84.27 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   107.50 ft / 32.77 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   276.48 ft / 84.27 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 111 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.50" / 165 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      5.00" / 127 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -         4.00" / 102 mm
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 6.00" / 152 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14,527 ihp / 10,837 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,111 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   433 - 564

Cost:
   £0.728 million / $2.912 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 434 tons, 5.2 %
      - Guns: 434 tons, 5.2 %
   Armour: 2,397 tons, 28.9 %
      - Belts: 1,413 tons, 17.0 %
      - Armament: 310 tons, 3.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 621 tons, 7.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 53 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 2,270 tons, 27.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,236 tons, 27.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 917 tons, 11.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 37 tons, 0.4 %
      - Hull below water: 12 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,335 lbs / 3,781 Kg = 32.6 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.49
   Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 12.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.19
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.55

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.507
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.91 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.80 ft / 1.16 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   18.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Aft deck:   42.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Quarter deck:   10.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 109.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 16,630 Square feet or 1,545 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 100 lbs/sq ft or 488 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.13
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Miscellaneous weight accounts for 3 (bow, port, & starboard) submerged 18" torpedo tubes, with 9 reload torpedoes.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on December 21, 2012, 06:40:26 AM
A possible new class of protected cruiser

USS Boulder, United States Protected Cruiser laid down 1901 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   3,966 t light; 4,143 t standard; 4,675 t normal; 5,101 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (385.00 ft / 385.00 ft) x 42.50 ft x (20.00 / 21.37 ft)
   (117.35 m / 117.35 m) x 12.95 m  x (6.10 / 6.51 m)

Armament:
      7 - 6.00" / 152 mm 50.0 cal guns - 105.01lbs / 47.63kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1901 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      1 raised mount aft - superfiring
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 - 4.00" / 102 mm 50.0 cal guns - 33.00lbs / 14.97kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 933 lbs / 423 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   385.00 ft / 117.35 m   4.00 ft / 1.22 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm         -         2.00" / 51 mm
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.25" / 32 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.25" / 32 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 13,007 ihp / 9,703 Kw = 21.50 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 958 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   282 - 367

Cost:
   £0.515 million / $2.061 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 276 tons, 5.9 %
      - Guns: 276 tons, 5.9 %
   Armour: 487 tons, 10.4 %
      - Belts: 171 tons, 3.7 %
      - Armament: 48 tons, 1.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 250 tons, 5.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 2,011 tons, 43.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,154 tons, 24.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 709 tons, 15.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 37 tons, 0.8 %
      - Hull below water: 12 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,696 lbs / 769 Kg = 15.7 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 12.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.511
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.06 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.67 ft / 3.25 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 160.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,902 Square feet or 1,013 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 85 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 73 lbs/sq ft or 357 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.35
      - Overall: 1.01
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Below-decks miscellaneous weight accounts for 4 18" 5m side mounted submerged torpedo tubes and 12 reload torpedoes.

Above-decks miscellaneous weight allows for a long-range wireless installation.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on December 21, 2012, 06:55:16 AM
Another possible 1901 cruiser, this one based on the historical Russian protected cruiser Bogatyr:


USS Boulder, United States Protected Cruiser laid down 1901 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   5,106 t light; 5,316 t standard; 5,942 t normal; 6,443 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (435.00 ft / 435.00 ft) x 45.00 ft x (21.25 / 22.59 ft)
   (132.59 m / 132.59 m) x 13.72 m  x (6.48 / 6.89 m)

Armament:
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm 50.0 cal guns - 105.01lbs / 47.63kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1901 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      6 - 6.00" / 152 mm 50.0 cal guns - 105.01lbs / 47.63kg shells, 120 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1901 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 13.01lbs / 5.90kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,154 lbs / 524 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   435.00 ft / 132.59 m   4.00 ft / 1.22 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      4.00" / 102 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -         2.00" / 51 mm

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.75" / 44 mm
   Forecastle: 1.25" / 32 mm  Quarter deck: 1.75" / 44 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 15,779 ihp / 11,771 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,127 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   337 - 439

Cost:
   £0.650 million / $2.601 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 335 tons, 5.6 %
      - Guns: 335 tons, 5.6 %
   Armour: 775 tons, 13.0 %
      - Belts: 258 tons, 4.3 %
      - Armament: 75 tons, 1.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 415 tons, 7.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 28 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 2,466 tons, 41.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,494 tons, 25.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 836 tons, 14.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 37 tons, 0.6 %
      - Hull below water: 12 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,300 lbs / 1,043 Kg = 21.3 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 12.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.510
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.67 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.86 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.94 ft / 3.33 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 153.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 77.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 13,042 Square feet or 1,212 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 86 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 78 lbs/sq ft or 382 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.18
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Below-decks miscellaneous weight accounts for 4 18" 5m side mounted submerged torpedo tubes and 12 reload torpedoes.

Above-decks miscellaneous weight allows for a long-range wireless installation.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: Nobody on December 21, 2012, 08:02:49 AM
You might want to check you gun placements. Seven guns in three mounts is not that practical and I'm not sure if small (6") guns can be put into twins before the 1920s or so.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: Tanthalas on December 21, 2012, 08:22:15 AM
the rule states
1910: Twin gun mounts (require hoists); powered gun mounts; unrestricted weapon armor
so the earliest you can have a 6" twin (using a mount and hoist style mount) would be 1912 H1.  I had a similar idea but realised it was a non starter.
Quote from: Nobody on December 21, 2012, 08:02:49 AM
You might want to check you gun placements. Seven guns in three mounts is not that practical and I'm not sure if small (6") guns can be put into twins before the 1920s or so.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on December 21, 2012, 08:41:56 AM
Quote from: Nobody on December 21, 2012, 08:02:49 AM
You might want to check you gun placements. Seven guns in three mounts is not that practical

There are actually 7 mounts on the first Boulder, the first 3 are on the centerline, the other 4 on the wings.

Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on December 21, 2012, 08:42:54 AM
Quote from: Tanthalas on December 21, 2012, 08:22:15 AM
the rule states
1910: Twin gun mounts (require hoists); powered gun mounts; unrestricted weapon armor
so the earliest you can have a 6" twin (using a mount and hoist style mount) would be 1912 H1.  I had a similar idea but realised it was a non starter.
Quote from: Nobody on December 21, 2012, 08:02:49 AM
You might want to check you gun placements. Seven guns in three mounts is not that practical and I'm not sure if small (6") guns can be put into twins before the 1920s or so.

Ah, well, real ships can't be built.  :) 
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: Walter on December 21, 2012, 08:53:47 AM
Quotethe earliest you can have a 6" twin (using a mount and hoist style mount) would be 1912 H1.
The rules also state...
QuoteIf research of a  technology is started before the listed year, for every two years difference from the game year, the research will take six months longer. This time is added to the months prior to success chances being rolled.
... so, unless I read it wrong, H1 1912 is not the earliest you can have a 6" twin mount. You can have it before that...

... but you still have to research the tech before you can build that twin mounted USS Boulder.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: Tanthalas on December 21, 2012, 09:36:13 AM
@ Kworld yeah I have run into that in the past... repeatedly

@ Walter OOOOOHHHHHHH I had forgoten all about that part of the research rules *starts researching somthing FUN in H2 1900 and reviews his wierd ships plans*
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on December 30, 2012, 03:39:37 AM
A possible fleet collier for the USN.

USS Triton, United States Collier laid down 1901 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   8,187 t light; 8,382 t standard; 9,160 t normal; 9,783 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (330.00 ft / 330.00 ft) x 63.50 ft x (24.00 / 25.37 ft)
   (100.58 m / 100.58 m) x 19.35 m  x (7.32 / 7.73 m)

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2,482 ihp / 1,852 Kw = 12.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,402 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   467 - 608

Cost:
   £0.348 million / $1.391 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 388 tons, 4.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,649 tons, 18.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 973 tons, 10.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 6,125 tons, 66.9 %
      - Hull below water: 4,000 tons
      - Hull above water: 2,000 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 50 tons
      - Above deck: 75 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,985 lbs / 4,529 Kg = 159.8 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.58
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 11.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.638 / 0.644
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.20 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 34 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  21.00 ft / 6.40 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.77 ft / 3.89 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 64.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,869 Square feet or 1,474 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 131 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 73 lbs/sq ft or 356 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.92
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily

On-deck miscellaneous weight accounts for coaling gantries and hoists.

Above-decks miscellaneous weight includes a long-range wireless and coaling cranes.

Hull miscellaneous weight is all coal (6000 tons).
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on January 03, 2013, 11:06:09 AM
A smaller, less expensive armored cruiser for the USN.

USS Boulder, United States Armored Cruiser laid down 1902 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   5,095 t light; 5,316 t standard; 5,942 t normal; 6,443 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (435.00 ft / 435.00 ft) x 45.00 ft x (21.25 / 22.59 ft)
   (132.59 m / 132.59 m) x 13.72 m  x (6.48 / 6.89 m)

Armament:
      4 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 164.99lbs / 74.84kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1902 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      6 - 5.00" / 127 mm 50.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1902 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 13.01lbs / 5.90kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,064 lbs / 483 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   435.00 ft / 132.59 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      4.00" / 102 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -         2.00" / 51 mm

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.25" / 32 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.25" / 32 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 15,779 ihp / 11,771 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,127 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   337 - 439

Cost:
   £0.637 million / $2.548 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 289 tons, 4.9 %
      - Guns: 289 tons, 4.9 %
   Armour: 783 tons, 13.2 %
      - Belts: 386 tons, 6.5 %
      - Armament: 76 tons, 1.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 299 tons, 5.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 21 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 2,466 tons, 41.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,521 tons, 25.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 848 tons, 14.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 37 tons, 0.6 %
      - Hull below water: 12 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,427 lbs / 1,101 Kg = 14.2 x 7.0 " / 178 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
   Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 12.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.510
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.67 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.86 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.94 ft / 3.33 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 152.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 77.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 13,042 Square feet or 1,212 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 87 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 78 lbs/sq ft or 381 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.19
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Below-decks miscellaneous weight accounts for 4 18" 5m side mounted submerged torpedo tubes and 12 reload torpedoes.

Above-decks miscellaneous weight allows for a long-range wireless installation..
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: snip on January 03, 2013, 11:21:15 AM
and the fuzzy area of legality returns...given its a 1902 design, Im going to hold off on commenting on such.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on January 03, 2013, 11:44:18 AM
The USN doesn't have a 7" gun available, and if it wanted to develop one it would be mid-1902 before it would be ready.  So deploying such a weapon before then's not feasible.  Of course, the USN had one historically, though it never mounted it in any fashion other than casemates on battleships and on land.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: snip on January 03, 2013, 12:01:02 PM
The twin mount and hoist is the sticky point here. Technicly, that is not allowed until the 1910 cruiser tech. Now if they were in T&B, its a different tin of kipper.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on January 03, 2013, 12:05:01 PM
Oh, is that all?

USS Boulder, United States Armored Cruiser laid down 1902 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   5,084 t light; 5,316 t standard; 5,942 t normal; 6,443 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (435.00 ft / 435.00 ft) x 45.00 ft x (21.25 / 22.59 ft)
   (132.59 m / 132.59 m) x 13.72 m  x (6.48 / 6.89 m)

Armament:
      4 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 164.99lbs / 74.84kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1902 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 5.00" / 127 mm 50.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 13.01lbs / 5.90kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,164 lbs / 528 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   435.00 ft / 132.59 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      4.00" / 102 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.25" / 32 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.25" / 32 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 15,779 ihp / 11,771 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,127 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   337 - 439

Cost:
   £0.623 million / $2.490 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 270 tons, 4.5 %
      - Guns: 270 tons, 4.5 %
   Armour: 841 tons, 14.2 %
      - Belts: 386 tons, 6.5 %
      - Armament: 135 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 299 tons, 5.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 21 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 2,466 tons, 41.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,471 tons, 24.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 859 tons, 14.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 37 tons, 0.6 %
      - Hull below water: 12 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,464 lbs / 1,118 Kg = 14.4 x 7.0 " / 178 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.33
   Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 11.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.32
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.510
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.67 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.86 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  14.50 ft / 4.42 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.36 ft / 3.16 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 150.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 73.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 13,042 Square feet or 1,212 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 76 lbs/sq ft or 373 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.13
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Below-decks miscellaneous weight accounts for 4 18" 5m side mounted submerged torpedo tubes and 12 reload torpedoes.

Above-decks miscellaneous weight allows for a long-range wireless installation.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: Jefgte on January 03, 2013, 05:21:34 PM
Like your last BB class, USS Nebraska, you could have cruisers with AQY turrets.
Just an idea...

Jef ;)
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on January 03, 2013, 06:44:29 PM
Quote from: Jefgte on January 03, 2013, 05:21:34 PM
Like your last BB class, USS Nebraska, you could have cruisers with AQY turrets.
Just an idea...

Jef ;)

AXY, actually.  But it is a thought....
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: Tanthalas on January 04, 2013, 08:12:55 AM
or you could use single mount and hoist mounts and give it say wing turrets.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on January 04, 2013, 08:28:19 AM
Quote from: Tanthalas on January 04, 2013, 08:12:55 AM
or you could use single mount and hoist mounts and give it say wing turrets.

That's essentially the current (1899) design: 1 bow centerline mount & hoist shielded gun, port and starboard mount & hoist shielded guns, 2 stern centerline mount & hoist shielded guns (no overhead or side armor on the mounts, just the gun shield and hoist armor).
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on January 15, 2013, 07:24:31 AM
A bigger, faster, collier.


USS Triton, United States Collier laid down 1901 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   10,130 t light; 10,355 t standard; 11,242 t normal; 11,951 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (395.00 ft / 395.00 ft) x 62.50 ft x (25.00 / 26.33 ft)
   (120.40 m / 120.40 m) x 19.05 m  x (7.62 / 8.02 m)

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2,748 ihp / 2,050 Kw = 12.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,595 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   545 - 709

Cost:
   £0.415 million / $1.659 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 429 tons, 3.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,076 tons, 18.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,111 tons, 9.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 7,625 tons, 67.8 %
      - Hull below water: 5,000 tons
      - Hull above water: 2,500 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 50 tons
      - Above deck: 75 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11,760 lbs / 5,334 Kg = 188.2 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.46
   Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 12.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 87 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.75

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.638 / 0.644
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.32 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.87 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 27 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  21.00 ft / 6.40 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.04 ft / 3.97 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 65.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,696 Square feet or 1,737 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 133 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 76 lbs/sq ft or 369 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.46
      - Overall: 1.01
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily

On-deck miscellaneous weight accounts for coaling gantries and hoists.

Above-decks miscellaneous weight includes a long-range wireless and coaling cranes.

Hull miscellaneous weight is all coal (7500 tons).
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on January 22, 2013, 08:41:41 AM
Tweaked to add 500 tons more coal and some light defensive guns.

USS Triton, United States Collier laid down 1901 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   10,742 t light; 10,995 t standard; 11,911 t normal; 12,644 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (390.00 ft / 390.00 ft) x 65.00 ft x (26.00 / 27.34 ft)
   (118.87 m / 118.87 m) x 19.81 m  x (7.92 / 8.33 m)

Armament:
      2 - 5.00" / 127 mm 50.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 13.01lbs / 5.90kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 152 lbs / 69 kg

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2,843 ihp / 2,121 Kw = 12.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,649 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   569 - 741

Cost:
   £0.448 million / $1.793 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 34 tons, 0.3 %
      - Guns: 34 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 444 tons, 3.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,139 tons, 18.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,168 tons, 9.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 8,125 tons, 68.2 %
      - Hull below water: 6,000 tons
      - Hull above water: 2,000 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 50 tons
      - Above deck: 75 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,794 lbs / 5,803 Kg = 204.7 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.62
   Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 11.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 88 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.76

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.633 / 0.638
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.75 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 28 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.69 ft / 3.87 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 63.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,109 Square feet or 1,775 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 131 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 78 lbs/sq ft or 379 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.52
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

On-deck miscellaneous weight accounts for coaling gantries and hoists.

Above-decks miscellaneous weight includes a long-range wireless and coaling cranes.

Hull miscellaneous weight is all coal (8000 tons).
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on January 30, 2013, 05:46:57 AM
A coastal torpedo boat.

USS Preble, United States Coastal Torpedo Boat laid down 1901 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   150 t light; 154 t standard; 163 t normal; 171 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (166.54 ft / 165.00 ft) x 15.00 ft x (6.00 / 6.17 ft)
   (50.76 m / 50.29 m) x 4.57 m  x (1.83 / 1.88 m)

Armament:
      2 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 5.71lbs / 2.59kg shells, 120 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 - 0.24" / 6.0 mm 118.5 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 800 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 11 lbs / 5 kg

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3,355 ihp / 2,503 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 65nm at 24.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 17 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   22 - 29

Cost:
   £0.020 million / $0.080 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 tons, 1.5 %
      - Guns: 2 tons, 1.5 %
   Machinery: 101 tons, 62.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 44 tons, 27.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 13 tons, 8.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 2 tons, 1.2 %
      - On freeboard deck: 2 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     33 lbs / 15 Kg = 5.8 x 2.2 " / 57 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 0.4 ft / 0.1 m
   Roll period: 10.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.385 / 0.391
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 12.85 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  8.75 ft / 2.67 m,  8.25 ft / 2.51 m
      - Forward deck:   20.00 %,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m
      - Aft deck:   45.00 %,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m,  6.50 ft / 1.98 m
      - Average freeboard:      6.89 ft / 2.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 204.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 57.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 1,508 Square feet or 140 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 15 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 14 lbs/sq ft or 69 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 2.10
      - Overall: 0.58
   Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Carries 2 18" 4m torpedoes in fixed deck-mounted tubes.

Trials speed 30.21 knots
Cruise range at 10 knots is 750 nm
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on February 04, 2013, 05:39:47 AM
As turbines become available, they may be tested in various vessels.


USS Burrows, United States Torpedo boat destroyer laid down 1904 (Engine 1903)

Displacement:
   494 t light; 511 t standard; 582 t normal; 638 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (267.82 ft / 265.00 ft) x 24.50 ft x (8.25 / 8.75 ft)
   (81.63 m / 80.77 m) x 7.47 m  x (2.51 / 2.67 m)

Armament:
      5 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 13.00lbs / 5.90kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      1 raised mount aft - superfiring
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
      Weight of broadside 65 lbs / 29 kg

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9,529 shp / 7,109 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 170nm at 27.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 127 tons (80% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   58 - 76

Cost:
   £0.068 million / $0.274 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 15 tons, 2.6 %
      - Guns: 15 tons, 2.6 %
   Machinery: 337 tons, 58.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 129 tons, 22.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 88 tons, 15.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 13 tons, 2.2 %
      - On freeboard deck: 3 tons
      - Above deck: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     118 lbs / 53 Kg = 8.7 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
   Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 10.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.380 / 0.393
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.82 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.28 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 78
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  13.75 ft / 4.19 m
      - Forward deck:   10.00 %,  13.75 ft / 4.19 m,  13.75 ft / 4.19 m
      - Aft deck:   55.00 %,  6.75 ft / 2.06 m,  6.75 ft / 2.06 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  6.75 ft / 2.06 m,  6.75 ft / 2.06 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.03 ft / 2.75 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 193.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 80.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,944 Square feet or 366 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 24 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 20 lbs/sq ft or 99 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.96
      - Overall: 0.53
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

On-deck weight accounts for 3 centerline rotatable 18" 5m wet heater torpedo tubes.

Above-deck miscellaneous weight allows for a short-range wireless installation.

Trials speed = 29.69 knots
Cruise range at 12 knots is 1500 nm, at 10 knots 2250 nm.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on February 04, 2013, 06:04:59 AM
And another test vessel, testing out Fessenden's idea of a turbo-electric drive.


USS Warrington, United States Torpedo boat destroyer laid down 1904 (Engine 1903)

Displacement:
   494 t light; 511 t standard; 582 t normal; 638 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (267.82 ft / 265.00 ft) x 24.50 ft x (8.25 / 8.75 ft)
   (81.63 m / 80.77 m) x 7.47 m  x (2.51 / 2.67 m)

Armament:
      5 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 13.00lbs / 5.90kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      1 raised mount aft - superfiring
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
      Weight of broadside 65 lbs / 29 kg

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 9,529 shp / 7,109 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 170nm at 27.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 127 tons (80% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   58 - 76

Cost:
   £0.068 million / $0.274 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 15 tons, 2.6 %
      - Guns: 15 tons, 2.6 %
   Machinery: 337 tons, 58.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 129 tons, 22.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 88 tons, 15.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 13 tons, 2.2 %
      - On freeboard deck: 3 tons
      - Above deck: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     118 lbs / 53 Kg = 8.7 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
   Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 10.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.380 / 0.393
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.82 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.28 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 78
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  13.75 ft / 4.19 m
      - Forward deck:   10.00 %,  13.75 ft / 4.19 m,  13.75 ft / 4.19 m
      - Aft deck:   55.00 %,  6.75 ft / 2.06 m,  6.75 ft / 2.06 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  6.75 ft / 2.06 m,  6.75 ft / 2.06 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.03 ft / 2.75 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 193.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 80.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,944 Square feet or 366 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 24 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 20 lbs/sq ft or 99 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.96
      - Overall: 0.53
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

On-deck weight accounts for 3 centerline rotatable 18" 5m wet heater torpedo tubes.

Above-deck miscellaneous weight allows for a short-range wireless installation.

Trials speed = 29.69 knots
Cruise range at 12 knots is 1500 nm, at 10 knots 2250 nm.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on February 04, 2013, 07:49:18 AM
But, in 1904, the reciprocating engine is still comparable to the turbine....

USS Jones, United States Torpedo boat destroyer laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   500 t light; 517 t standard; 582 t normal; 633 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (267.82 ft / 265.00 ft) x 24.50 ft x (8.25 / 8.71 ft)
   (81.63 m / 80.77 m) x 7.47 m  x (2.51 / 2.65 m)

Armament:
      5 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 13.00lbs / 5.90kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      1 raised mount aft - superfiring
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
      Weight of broadside 65 lbs / 29 kg

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9,529 ihp / 7,109 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 220nm at 27.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 116 tons (80% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   58 - 76

Cost:
   £0.070 million / $0.279 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 15 tons, 2.6 %
      - Guns: 15 tons, 2.6 %
   Machinery: 344 tons, 59.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 128 tons, 22.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 81 tons, 14.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 13 tons, 2.2 %
      - On freeboard deck: 3 tons
      - Above deck: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     113 lbs / 51 Kg = 8.4 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
   Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 10.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.380 / 0.392
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.82 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.28 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 78
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  13.75 ft / 4.19 m
      - Forward deck:   10.00 %,  13.75 ft / 4.19 m,  13.75 ft / 4.19 m
      - Aft deck:   55.00 %,  6.75 ft / 2.06 m,  6.75 ft / 2.06 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  6.75 ft / 2.06 m,  6.75 ft / 2.06 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.03 ft / 2.75 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 197.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 80.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,944 Square feet or 366 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 21 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 20 lbs/sq ft or 98 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.95
      - Overall: 0.53
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

On-deck weight accounts for 3 centerline rotatable 18" 5m wet heater torpedo tubes.

Above-deck miscellaneous weight allows for a short-range wireless installation.

Trials speed = 29.71 knots
Cruise range at 12 knots  1900 nm, at 10 knots 2900 nm.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: Jefgte on February 04, 2013, 09:08:48 AM
IMO,
These small ships could be built in 70m SL.
Reserve 120m SL to scout cruisers.

Jef  ;)
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on February 04, 2013, 09:22:01 AM
I could, I'm sure, but I have 15 S1s vs only 10 S0s, and only 5 D0s vs 15 D1s.  So I'm not sure it's worthwhile.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: Jefgte on February 04, 2013, 10:10:54 AM
This is just to optimize the use of industrial shipyards resources...

Jef  ;)
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on February 04, 2013, 10:18:17 AM
Heh, the way I'll probably optimize those is to enlarge most or all of the S0s to S1s.  :)  That way they'll be useful for later, larger DDs, which 70m S0s aren't.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: Tanthalas on February 04, 2013, 11:26:13 AM
Hey thats my trick... *hides the fact that he is updating all his slips and docks*

Quote from: KWorld on February 04, 2013, 10:18:17 AM
Heh, the way I'll probably optimize those is to enlarge most or all of the S0s to S1s.  :)  That way they'll be useful for later, larger DDs, which 70m S0s aren't.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on February 12, 2013, 10:34:55 AM
USS Adder, United States Submarine laid down 1900

Displacement:
   100 t light; 102 t standard; 107 t normal; 111 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (66.00 ft / 66.00 ft) x 12.00 ft x (9.00 / 9.25 ft)
   (20.12 m / 20.12 m) x 3.66 m  x (2.74 / 2.82 m)

Machinery:
   Petrol Internal combustion generators plus batteries,  plus batteries,
   Electric motors, 1 shaft, 158 shp / 118 Kw = 10.50 kts
   Range 1,200nm at 6.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8 tons

Complement:
   16 - 21

Cost:
   £0.009 million / $0.034 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 36 tons, 33.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 33 tons, 31.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7 tons, 6.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 30 tons, 28.1 %
      - Hull below water: 30 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     23 lbs / 10 Kg = 0.2 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
   Metacentric height 0.3 ft / 0.1 m
   Roll period: 9.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 1 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.525 / 0.529
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 8.12 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  0.10 ft / 0.03 m,  0.10 ft / 0.03 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  0.10 ft / 0.03 m,  0.10 ft / 0.03 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  0.10 ft / 0.03 m,  0.10 ft / 0.03 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  0.10 ft / 0.03 m,  0.10 ft / 0.03 m
      - Average freeboard:      0.10 ft / 0.03 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 161.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 0.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 521 Square feet or 48 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 38 lbs/sq ft or 186 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 2.15
      - Longitudinal: 5.03
      - Overall: 2.34
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
   Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

28 tons of below-water miscellaneous weight is ballast tankage.

2 tons of below-water miscellaneous weight support 1 bow 18" short torpedo tube, with 2 reload torpedoes.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on February 12, 2013, 12:19:39 PM
A later, but still mostly experimental, submarine.

USS Copperhead, United States Submarine laid down 1903 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   200 t light; 205 t standard; 214 t normal; 221 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (105.00 ft / 105.00 ft) x 15.00 ft x (10.00 / 10.25 ft)
   (32.00 m / 32.00 m) x 4.57 m  x (3.05 / 3.12 m)

Armament:
      1 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 23.0 cal gun - 13.01lbs / 5.90kg shells, 120 per gun
     Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1903 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
      Weight of broadside 13 lbs / 6 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Petrol Internal combustion generators plus batteries,  plus batteries,
   Electric motors, 1 shaft, 192 shp / 144 Kw = 10.50 kts
   Range 1,500nm at 6.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 16 tons

Complement:
   27 - 36

Cost:
   £0.013 million / $0.054 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 tons, 0.6 %
      - Guns: 1 tons, 0.6 %
   Armour: 1 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armament: 1 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 44 tons, 20.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 79 tons, 36.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 14 tons, 6.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 35.1 %
      - Hull below water: 65 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     112 lbs / 51 Kg = 8.3 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 0.4 ft / 0.1 m
   Roll period: 10.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 2 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.475 / 0.479
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 10.25 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  0.10 ft / 0.03 m,  0.10 ft / 0.03 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  0.10 ft / 0.03 m,  0.10 ft / 0.03 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  0.10 ft / 0.03 m,  0.10 ft / 0.03 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  0.10 ft / 0.03 m,  0.10 ft / 0.03 m
      - Average freeboard:      0.10 ft / 0.03 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 0.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 982 Square feet or 91 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 50 lbs/sq ft or 246 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 2.37
      - Longitudinal: 2.91
      - Overall: 2.42
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
   Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

60 tons of below-water miscellaneous weight is ballast tankage.

5 tons of below-water miscellaneous weight supports 2 18" short torpedo tubes and 6 reload torpedoes.

On-deck miscellaneous weight supports a short-range wireless set.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on February 20, 2013, 05:34:18 AM
A possible future light cruiser of the USN.

USS Omaha, United States Light Cruiser laid down 1907 (Engine 1910)

Displacement:
   3,726 t light; 3,915 t standard; 4,387 t normal; 4,764 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (420.00 ft / 420.00 ft) x 45.00 ft x (16.75 / 17.81 ft)
   (128.02 m / 128.02 m) x 13.72 m  x (5.11 / 5.43 m)

Armament:
      5 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 164.99lbs / 74.84kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1907 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      1 raised mount aft - superfiring
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      6 - 4.00" / 102 mm 50.0 cal guns - 33.00lbs / 14.97kg shells, 300 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1907 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,023 lbs / 464 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   306.60 ft / 93.45 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm         -         2.00" / 51 mm
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.25" / 32 mm
   Forecastle: 1.25" / 32 mm  Quarter deck: 1.25" / 32 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Hydraulic drive, 2 shafts, 29,467 shp / 21,983 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 849 tons

Complement:
   269 - 350

Cost:
   £0.393 million / $1.573 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 268 tons, 6.1 %
      - Guns: 268 tons, 6.1 %
   Armour: 651 tons, 14.8 %
      - Belts: 298 tons, 6.8 %
      - Armament: 41 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 290 tons, 6.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 23 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1,218 tons, 27.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,545 tons, 35.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 661 tons, 15.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 44 tons, 1.0 %
      - Hull above water: 11 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 8 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,257 lbs / 1,931 Kg = 24.8 x 7.0 " / 178 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 1.9 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 13.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.70
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.485 / 0.495
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.33 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  21.00 ft / 6.40 m,  17.25 ft / 5.26 m
      - Forward deck:   35.00 %,  17.25 ft / 5.26 m,  14.75 ft / 4.50 m
      - Aft deck:   38.00 %,  14.75 ft / 4.50 m,  14.75 ft / 4.50 m
      - Quarter deck:   12.00 %,  14.75 ft / 4.50 m,  14.75 ft / 4.50 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.79 ft / 4.81 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 110.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 132.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,424 Square feet or 1,154 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 80 lbs/sq ft or 392 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.93
      - Overall: 1.02
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

On deck miscellaneous weight provides for 2 twin side-rotatable 18" wet heater torpedo tubes.

Above-water miscellaneous weight provides for 8 reload 18" wet heater torpedoes.

Above-deck miscellaneous weight allows for a long-range wireless installation.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on February 20, 2013, 09:38:18 AM
USS Provo, United States Cruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1903)

Displacement:
   4,610 t light; 4,811 t standard; 5,533 t normal; 6,110 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (425.00 ft / 425.00 ft) x 45.00 ft x (20.25 / 21.84 ft)
   (129.54 m / 129.54 m) x 13.72 m  x (6.17 / 6.66 m)

Armament:
      5 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 164.99lbs / 74.84kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1904 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      1 raised mount aft - superfiring
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      6 - 4.00" / 102 mm 50.0 cal guns - 33.00lbs / 14.97kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,023 lbs / 464 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   425.00 ft / 129.54 m   6.00 ft / 1.83 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm         -         2.00" / 51 mm
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.25" / 32 mm
   Forecastle: 1.25" / 32 mm  Quarter deck: 1.25" / 32 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 18,053 shp / 13,467 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,299 tons (80% coal)

Complement:
   319 - 416

Cost:
   £0.563 million / $2.253 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 263 tons, 4.7 %
      - Guns: 263 tons, 4.7 %
   Armour: 647 tons, 11.7 %
      - Belts: 283 tons, 5.1 %
      - Armament: 40 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 297 tons, 5.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 27 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 2,212 tons, 40.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,450 tons, 26.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 923 tons, 16.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 37 tons, 0.7 %
      - Hull below water: 12 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,565 lbs / 1,164 Kg = 15.0 x 7.0 " / 178 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
   Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 12.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.512
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.44 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  15.50 ft / 4.72 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Forward deck:   35.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Aft deck:   40.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Quarter deck:   10.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:      11.54 ft / 3.52 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 145.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 85.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,743 Square feet or 1,184 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 77 lbs/sq ft or 375 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.27
      - Overall: 1.01
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Below-decks miscellaneous weight accounts for 4 18" 5m side mounted submerged torpedo tubes and 12 reload torpedoes.

Above-decks miscellaneous weight allows for a long-range wireless installation.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: eltf177 on February 20, 2013, 01:03:42 PM
Quote from: KWorld on February 20, 2013, 09:38:18 AM
USS Provo, United States Cruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1903)

Armament:
      5 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 164.99lbs / 74.84kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1904 Model
     5 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft

Seems to be a problem here...
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on February 20, 2013, 01:09:03 PM
Quote from: eltf177 on February 20, 2013, 01:03:42 PM
Quote from: KWorld on February 20, 2013, 09:38:18 AM
USS Provo, United States Cruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1903)

Armament:
      5 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 164.99lbs / 74.84kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1904 Model
     5 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft

Seems to be a problem here...

Whoops!  You are correct, sir!  Updated.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: Jefgte on February 20, 2013, 04:58:15 PM
You'll have turbines in 1904...
1904 is probably the first year to SS with turbines.

Jef
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: snip on February 20, 2013, 05:16:26 PM
Quote from: Jefgte on February 20, 2013, 04:58:15 PM
You'll have turbines in 1904...
1904 is probably the first year to SS with turbines.

Jef

First year assuming you get a lucky roll, 1905 would be the "safe" bet.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on February 25, 2013, 06:31:02 AM
A possible future capital ship of the USN.


USS California, United States Battleship laid down 1909 (Engine 1910)

Displacement:
   24,131 t light; 25,635 t standard; 26,743 t normal; 27,629 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (602.01 ft / 600.00 ft) x 100.00 ft x (26.00 / 26.71 ft)
   (183.49 m / 182.88 m) x 30.48 m  x (7.92 / 8.14 m)

Armament:
      10 - 14.00" / 356 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,400.00lbs / 635.03kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
     5 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 50.0 cal guns - 105.00lbs / 47.63kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 50.0 cal guns - 33.00lbs / 14.97kg shells, 300 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 15,656 lbs / 7,101 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   390.00 ft / 118.87 m   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   209.98 ft / 64.00 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      2.00" / 51 mm   390.00 ft / 118.87 m   23.82 ft / 7.26 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 70.00 ft / 21.34 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -         5.00" / 127 mm
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Hydraulic drive, 4 shafts, 32,938 shp / 24,572 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 6,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,994 tons

Complement:
   1,045 - 1,359

Cost:
   £2.419 million / $9.678 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,658 tons, 9.9 %
      - Guns: 2,658 tons, 9.9 %
   Armour: 10,074 tons, 37.7 %
      - Belts: 4,566 tons, 17.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 687 tons, 2.6 %
      - Armament: 2,837 tons, 10.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,637 tons, 6.1 %
      - Conning Towers: 347 tons, 1.3 %
   Machinery: 1,361 tons, 5.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,001 tons, 37.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,612 tons, 9.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 37 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 12 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     39,395 lbs / 17,869 Kg = 28.7 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 7.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 6.3 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 16.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.603
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.37 ft / 5.29 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 43,883 Square feet or 4,077 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 194 lbs/sq ft or 946 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.28
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Below-decks miscellaneous weight allows for 4 broadside 18" 5m wet-heater torpedo tubes with 12 reloads.

Above-decks miscellaneous weight allows for a long-range wireless installation.


Turrets are laid out as ABs XYsZ (X turret faces forward, with it's back to Y).
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: Tanthalas on February 25, 2013, 09:07:56 AM
Thinking about kicking off the standards a few years early? Supose that means that USS Wyoming will be a "Standard" instead of the turret farm arangement of OTL =P (since she layed down in 1910 OTL)
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on February 25, 2013, 09:36:15 AM
Haven't decided whether there'll BE Standards in Navalism, yet.  :)
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: Tanthalas on February 25, 2013, 09:53:37 AM
I just would like to see us try to avoid the Gun Creap that happend in N3... was realy annoying to have to laydown 14" ships in 1909 when some of the greatest ships ever built were being layed down with 12/50s OTL (it led to me building several ships I realy didnt like just to keep up).

Quote from: KWorld on February 25, 2013, 09:36:15 AM
Haven't decided whether there'll BE Standards in Navalism, yet.  :)
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on February 25, 2013, 10:13:07 AM
I don't know that you'll really be able to avoid it, especially given the over-armoring that's very tempting to do.  Given that the 12"/50 and the 14"/45 techs become available at the same time, you'd need to have a reason to develop the 12"/50 (the US might want to use it as a BC gun, instead of the heavier 14"/45, for instance).


Quote from: Tanthalas on February 25, 2013, 09:53:37 AM
I just would like to see us try to avoid the Gun Creap that happend in N3... was realy annoying to have to laydown 14" ships in 1909 when some of the greatest ships ever built were being layed down with 12/50s OTL (it led to me building several ships I realy didnt like just to keep up).

Quote from: KWorld on February 25, 2013, 09:36:15 AM
Haven't decided whether there'll BE Standards in Navalism, yet.  :)
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: Tanthalas on February 25, 2013, 10:30:15 AM
Oh I agree, its an issue.  OTL the German 12/50 and British 13.5/45 (Course the first units using it wernt layed down till 1910) were aproximatly equal however the US 14/45 was a Superior gun to both (but its first units wern't layed down till 1911 if I remember right).  In the Nverse we end up with people using them on ships with 1909 laydowns becasue frankley well they can... hence Gun Creap, I dont honestly know the answer I do know part of the problem is SHP restrictions but honestly we need them (much as I hate to admit that).  I do wish I could figure it out though casue I realy like 12" guns  ;)

Quote from: KWorld on February 25, 2013, 10:13:07 AM
I don't know that you'll really be able to avoid it, especially given the over-armoring that's very tempting to do.  Given that the 12"/50 and the 14"/45 techs become available at the same time, you'd need to have a reason to develop the 12"/50 (the US might want to use it as a BC gun, instead of the heavier 14"/45, for instance).


Quote from: Tanthalas on February 25, 2013, 09:53:37 AM
I just would like to see us try to avoid the Gun Creap that happend in N3... was realy annoying to have to laydown 14" ships in 1909 when some of the greatest ships ever built were being layed down with 12/50s OTL (it led to me building several ships I realy didnt like just to keep up).

Quote from: KWorld on February 25, 2013, 09:36:15 AM
Haven't decided whether there'll BE Standards in Navalism, yet.  :)
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on February 26, 2013, 05:12:36 AM
Not sure how the SHP restrictions are an issue, myself.  But it makes sense to stay with the lighter 12" gun IF it will get the job done, and to drop it in favor of larger weapons if it won't.

Thing is, we're already starting to see "gun creep", with the German submissions of 35cm guns to the Brazillian and Chilean competitions and the RN working on 13.5" guns (albeit more howitzers than naval guns).


Quote from: Tanthalas on February 25, 2013, 10:30:15 AM
Oh I agree, its an issue.  OTL the German 12/50 and British 13.5/45 (Course the first units using it wernt layed down till 1910) were aproximatly equal however the US 14/45 was a Superior gun to both (but its first units wern't layed down till 1911 if I remember right).  In the Nverse we end up with people using them on ships with 1909 laydowns becasue frankley well they can... hence Gun Creap, I dont honestly know the answer I do know part of the problem is SHP restrictions but honestly we need them (much as I hate to admit that).  I do wish I could figure it out though casue I realy like 12" guns  ;)

Quote from: KWorld on February 25, 2013, 10:13:07 AM
I don't know that you'll really be able to avoid it, especially given the over-armoring that's very tempting to do.  Given that the 12"/50 and the 14"/45 techs become available at the same time, you'd need to have a reason to develop the 12"/50 (the US might want to use it as a BC gun, instead of the heavier 14"/45, for instance).


Quote from: Tanthalas on February 25, 2013, 09:53:37 AM
I just would like to see us try to avoid the Gun Creap that happend in N3... was realy annoying to have to laydown 14" ships in 1909 when some of the greatest ships ever built were being layed down with 12/50s OTL (it led to me building several ships I realy didnt like just to keep up).

Quote from: KWorld on February 25, 2013, 09:36:15 AM
Haven't decided whether there'll BE Standards in Navalism, yet.  :)
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on March 07, 2013, 05:00:06 AM
Here's a USN version of the "fast battleship" concept.

USS Minnesota, United States Battleship laid down 1902 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   19,289 t light; 20,203 t standard; 21,600 t normal; 22,718 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (600.00 ft / 600.00 ft) x 80.00 ft x (26.25 / 27.36 ft)
   (182.88 m / 182.88 m) x 24.38 m  x (8.00 / 8.34 m)

Armament:
      6 - 12.00" / 305 mm 40.0 cal guns - 870.01lbs / 394.63kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1902 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      6 - 6.00" / 152 mm 50.0 cal guns - 105.01lbs / 47.63kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1902 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      3 raised mounts
      10 - 6.00" / 152 mm 50.0 cal guns - 105.00lbs / 47.63kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1902 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 13.01lbs / 5.90kg shells, 400 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 7,056 lbs / 3,201 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   402.00 ft / 122.53 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   197.98 ft / 60.34 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Upper:   8.00" / 203 mm   402.00 ft / 122.53 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   8.00" / 203 mm   6.00" / 152 mm            -
   3rd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -         4.00" / 102 mm
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.50" / 64 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 33,427 ihp / 24,937 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,515 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   890 - 1,158

Cost:
   £1.960 million / $7.841 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,200 tons, 5.6 %
      - Guns: 1,200 tons, 5.6 %
   Armour: 6,682 tons, 30.9 %
      - Belts: 3,785 tons, 17.5 %
      - Armament: 986 tons, 4.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,610 tons, 7.5 %
      - Conning Towers: 301 tons, 1.4 %
   Machinery: 5,223 tons, 24.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,147 tons, 28.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,311 tons, 10.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 37 tons, 0.2 %
      - Hull below water: 12 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19,133 lbs / 8,679 Kg = 22.1 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 14.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.605
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   19.00 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Forward deck:   40.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Aft deck:   27.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Quarter deck:   14.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:      14.69 ft / 4.48 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 107.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 35,106 Square feet or 3,261 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 138 lbs/sq ft or 675 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.01
      - Longitudinal: 1.03
      - Overall: 1.01
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Below-decks miscellaneous weight accounts for 4 submerged broadside 18" 5m wet heater torpedo tubes and 8 reload torpedoes.

Above-decks miscellaneous weight allows for a long-range wireless installation.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on March 29, 2013, 07:25:26 AM
A small AC.

USS Boulder, United States Armored Cruiser laid down 1902 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   5,344 t light; 5,577 t standard; 6,222 t normal; 6,738 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (435.00 ft / 435.00 ft) x 45.00 ft x (22.25 / 23.63 ft)
   (132.59 m / 132.59 m) x 13.72 m  x (6.78 / 7.20 m)

Armament:
      6 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 164.99lbs / 74.84kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1902 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      12 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 13.01lbs / 5.90kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
     3 x Twin mounts on side ends, majority forward
      3 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,146 lbs / 520 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   421.95 ft / 128.61 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm     13.03 ft / 3.97 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 149 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      4.00" / 102 mm
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.25" / 32 mm
   Forecastle: 1.25" / 32 mm  Quarter deck: 1.25" / 32 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 16,252 ihp / 12,124 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,161 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   349 - 455

Cost:
   £0.650 million / $2.599 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 264 tons, 4.2 %
      - Guns: 264 tons, 4.2 %
   Armour: 895 tons, 14.4 %
      - Belts: 399 tons, 6.4 %
      - Armament: 162 tons, 2.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 305 tons, 4.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 29 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 2,539 tons, 40.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,609 tons, 25.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 878 tons, 14.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 37 tons, 0.6 %
      - Hull below water: 12 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,580 lbs / 1,170 Kg = 15.0 x 7.0 " / 178 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 12.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.510
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.67 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.86 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   2.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Forward deck:   38.00 %,  14.50 ft / 4.42 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   59.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   1.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.96 ft / 3.34 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 148.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 77.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 13,042 Square feet or 1,212 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 80 lbs/sq ft or 391 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.22
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Below-decks miscellaneous weight accounts for 4 18" 5m side mounted submerged torpedo tubes and 12 reload torpedoes.

Above-decks miscellaneous weight allows for a long-range wireless installation.

Twin 3" mountings are atop the 7" turrets.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: Jefgte on March 29, 2013, 07:47:41 AM
France didnt considers this type of cruiser as interesting in the futur.
The composition of the Marine organized around fighting groups consisting of battleships (12 "guns) and powerful cruisers (10"78 guns). Scouting Forces consist of small light cruisers.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on March 29, 2013, 08:03:00 AM
The USN is frustrated with smaller cruisers.  At least until turbines make a useful appearance, smaller cruisers suffer from being no faster than their bigger brothers, which makes it hard to use them for scouting (oh, look, you found a smoke plume, and it turns out to be an armored cruiser, which is as fast or faster than you are: either you run away and cannot learn more about what's behind it, or it sinks you).

The other thing the USN is trying to do is fill a gap in it's production line.  1902 is likely to be a pause year in USN production, while the new designs from the 1900 class shakedown and reveal their issues.  The USN would like to wait on heavy ship construction until these issues reveal themselves, so fixes can be made to follow-on units.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: Tanthalas on March 29, 2013, 09:29:48 AM
I feal your Pain Kworld... What I wanted to build got shot down, and now im looking at a hole in production around 1903.  I also would like to build smaller cruisers (I think of them as CLs but they realy arn't as they have some armor), but I just cant justify them when larger cruisers are curently so much more capable.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on March 29, 2013, 10:43:45 AM
I could build these instead of Boulders, but I don't see a good reason to do so.

USS Omaha, United States Protected Cruiser laid down 1902 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   4,382 t light; 4,560 t standard; 5,028 t normal; 5,402 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (400.00 ft / 400.00 ft) x 45.00 ft x (19.75 / 20.85 ft)
   (121.92 m / 121.92 m) x 13.72 m  x (6.02 / 6.35 m)

Armament:
      5 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 164.99lbs / 74.84kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1902 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      1 raised mount aft - superfiring
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      6 - 4.00" / 102 mm 50.0 cal guns - 33.88lbs / 15.37kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 1,028 lbs / 466 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   400.00 ft / 121.92 m   4.00 ft / 1.22 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm         -         2.00" / 51 mm

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.25" / 32 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.25" / 32 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14,666 ihp / 10,941 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 842 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   298 - 388

Cost:
   £0.566 million / $2.266 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 268 tons, 5.3 %
      - Guns: 268 tons, 5.3 %
   Armour: 503 tons, 10.0 %
      - Belts: 178 tons, 3.5 %
      - Armament: 33 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 273 tons, 5.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 19 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 2,292 tons, 45.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,287 tons, 25.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 646 tons, 12.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 33 tons, 0.7 %
      - Hull below water: 8 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,833 lbs / 831 Kg = 10.7 x 7.0 " / 178 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.33
   Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 11.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.495 / 0.504
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.89 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.94 ft / 3.33 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 164.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 79.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,939 Square feet or 1,109 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 84 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 75 lbs/sq ft or 367 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.30
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Below-decks miscellaneous weight accounts for 4 18" 5m side mounted submerged torpedo tubes and 8 reload torpedoes.

Above-deck miscellaneous weight supports a long-range wireless installation.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: Tanthalas on March 29, 2013, 10:47:33 AM
more or less where I ended up for a Colonial cruiser, I used 7.5" guns and I think I ended up at 7500 tons light but yeah same problem The diferance in preformance between them and the Gladius type ACs is just to big.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: Jefgte on March 29, 2013, 04:40:20 PM
QuoteDimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (400.00 ft / 400.00 ft) x 45.00 ft x (19.75 / 20.85 ft)
   (121.92 m / 121.92 m) x 13.72 m  x (6.02 / 6.35 m)

You could probably reSS with 120m / 393.7ft
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on March 30, 2013, 06:29:16 AM
Quote from: Tanthalas on March 29, 2013, 10:47:33 AM
more or less where I ended up for a Colonial cruiser, I used 7.5" guns and I think I ended up at 7500 tons light but yeah same problem The diferance in preformance between them and the Gladius type ACs is just to big.

We'll probably be stuck in this spot for a few years, until the turbines start becoming viable engine types.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on March 30, 2013, 06:31:57 AM
Quote from: Jefgte on March 29, 2013, 04:40:20 PM
QuoteDimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (400.00 ft / 400.00 ft) x 45.00 ft x (19.75 / 20.85 ft)
   (121.92 m / 121.92 m) x 13.72 m  x (6.02 / 6.35 m)

You could probably reSS with 120m / 393.7ft

I could, I'm sure, but it wouldn't improve them vs their larger competition.  Shortening them would almost surely drive up their weight, putting them closer in cost to units with the same speed and substantially superior armament and protection.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on April 03, 2013, 07:47:43 AM
A slightly larger Boulder, enlarged to fit better belt armor.

USS Boulder, United States Armored Cruiser laid down 1902 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   5,980 t light; 6,234 t standard; 6,913 t normal; 7,457 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (435.00 ft / 435.00 ft) x 50.00 ft x (22.25 / 23.56 ft)
   (132.59 m / 132.59 m) x 15.24 m  x (6.78 / 7.18 m)

Armament:
      6 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 164.99lbs / 74.84kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1902 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 50.0 cal guns - 33.00lbs / 14.97kg shells, 225 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 1,254 lbs / 569 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   404.55 ft / 123.31 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm     30.43 ft / 9.28 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 143 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      4.00" / 102 mm
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.25" / 32 mm
   Forecastle: 1.25" / 32 mm  Quarter deck: 1.25" / 32 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 17,433 ihp / 13,005 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,222 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   378 - 492

Cost:
   £0.703 million / $2.811 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 282 tons, 4.1 %
      - Guns: 282 tons, 4.1 %
   Armour: 1,186 tons, 17.2 %
      - Belts: 656 tons, 9.5 %
      - Armament: 160 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 338 tons, 4.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 31 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 2,724 tons, 39.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,752 tons, 25.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 933 tons, 13.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 37 tons, 0.5 %
      - Hull below water: 12 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,229 lbs / 1,465 Kg = 18.8 x 7.0 " / 178 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.33
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 12.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.29
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.509
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.70 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.86 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   5.00 %,  15.50 ft / 4.72 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forward deck:   45.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   48.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   2.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      11.13 ft / 3.39 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 143.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 80.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 14,492 Square feet or 1,346 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 89 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 83 lbs/sq ft or 403 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.22
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Below-decks miscellaneous weight accounts for 4 18" 5m side mounted submerged torpedo tubes and 12 reload torpedoes.

Above-decks miscellaneous weight allows for a long-range wireless installation.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on April 10, 2013, 08:02:01 AM
A possible follow-on to the Nebraska class battleships.

USS Texas, USA Battleship laid down 1903 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   15,664 t light; 16,741 t standard; 17,962 t normal; 18,939 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (529.84 ft / 520.00 ft) x 78.00 ft x (25.00 / 26.13 ft)
   (161.50 m / 158.50 m) x 23.77 m  x (7.62 / 7.96 m)

Armament:
      6 - 12.00" / 305 mm 40.0 cal guns - 870.01lbs / 394.63kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1903 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      6 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 164.99lbs / 74.84kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1903 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      3 raised mounts
      12 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 164.99lbs / 74.84kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1903 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 13.01lbs / 5.90kg shells, 400 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1903 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 8,346 lbs / 3,786 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   275.60 ft / 84.00 m   14.50 ft / 4.42 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   244.38 ft / 74.49 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Upper:   8.00" / 203 mm   275.60 ft / 84.00 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 82 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   10.0" / 254 mm   6.00" / 152 mm            -
   3rd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -         4.00" / 102 mm
   4th:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
   Forecastle: 2.50" / 64 mm  Quarter deck: 2.50" / 64 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 14.00" / 356 mm, Aft 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14,860 ihp / 11,086 Kw = 18.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,198 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   775 - 1,008

Cost:
   £1.490 million / $5.961 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,345 tons, 7.5 %
      - Guns: 1,345 tons, 7.5 %
   Armour: 6,407 tons, 35.7 %
      - Belts: 3,428 tons, 19.1 %
      - Armament: 1,277 tons, 7.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,408 tons, 7.8 %
      - Conning Towers: 296 tons, 1.6 %
   Machinery: 2,322 tons, 12.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,548 tons, 30.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,299 tons, 12.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 41 tons, 0.2 %
      - Hull below water: 16 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     23,569 lbs / 10,691 Kg = 27.3 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 14.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.51

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.620 / 0.625
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.67 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 38 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forward deck:   20.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  16.50 ft / 5.03 m
      - Aft deck:   33.00 %,  16.50 ft / 5.03 m,  16.50 ft / 5.03 m
      - Quarter deck:   22.00 %,  16.50 ft / 5.03 m,  16.50 ft / 5.03 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.98 ft / 5.17 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 30,223 Square feet or 2,808 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 145 lbs/sq ft or 708 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.54
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Below-decks miscellaneous weight includes provision for 4 18" submerged broadside torpedo tubes with 12 reload torpedoes.

Above-deck miscellaneous weight allows for a long-range wireless installation.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: Jefgte on April 10, 2013, 08:24:42 AM
You have 6 turrets installed on the centerline.
Difficult to instal engines & boilers.
IMO, hard design for the enginers...

Jef
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on April 10, 2013, 08:43:19 AM
Nope, only 3 turrets on the centerline, the 7" mounts are atop the 12" turrets.  Just like on the Nebraskas, or the historical Kearsarges and Virginias (though the historical ships only had 2 12" turrets, vs 3 for the Navalisim ships).
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: Tanthalas on April 10, 2013, 09:14:45 AM
its a nice ship but remember our discussion about MMB or AQY.  I would suspect that 7" guns would fall into that grey area but that this ship would end up being ruled MMB on AQY (Ilegal).
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on April 10, 2013, 09:29:37 AM
I don't think so, since the rules specifically say: "Secondaries are 4-7" guns. 8-10" medium-caliber guns are not secondaries, but medium-caliber main guns".  Guns between 7" and 8" are in a grey area, 7" aren't.  At least by my reading, anyway.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: Tanthalas on April 10, 2013, 12:46:48 PM
Im just giving you my opinion, but like I have said in the past, feal free to build whatever you want.  Just dont act surprised if there are repercusions.

Quote from: KWorld on April 10, 2013, 09:29:37 AM
I don't think so, since the rules specifically say: "Secondaries are 4-7" guns. 8-10" medium-caliber guns are not secondaries, but medium-caliber main guns".  Guns between 7" and 8" are in a grey area, 7" aren't.  At least by my reading, anyway.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on April 10, 2013, 01:07:45 PM
Quote from: Tanthalas on April 10, 2013, 12:46:48 PM
Im just giving you my opinion, but like I have said in the past, feal free to build whatever you want.  Just dont act surprised if there are repercusions.

Quote from: KWorld on April 10, 2013, 09:29:37 AM
I don't think so, since the rules specifically say: "Secondaries are 4-7" guns. 8-10" medium-caliber guns are not secondaries, but medium-caliber main guns".  Guns between 7" and 8" are in a grey area, 7" aren't.  At least by my reading, anyway.

If it does, it does, and I can save a few tons (and end up with a ship that works better).  The 7" casemate mounts will only be better here in that they're mounted higher and so are less prone to being washed out than the historical mounts.  That won't change the fact that the shells are really too heavy for easy manual operations, but in 1903 the USN won't know that.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on April 11, 2013, 07:22:10 AM
A possible test-bed for the 7" gun.   It's a conversion of an 1895 cruiser, taking the opportunity to pull the old engine and install a new, more modern one along with the replacement of the old 6"/40 guns with 7"/45s.  The old torpedo tubes were replaced by a short-range wireless, and the 4"/40s with 4"/50s.


USS Madison, United States Protected Cruiser laid down 1895 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   2,654 t light; 2,762 t standard; 3,046 t normal; 3,273 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (315.20 ft / 305.00 ft) x 42.00 ft x (17.00 / 17.94 ft)
   (96.07 m / 92.96 m) x 12.80 m  x (5.18 / 5.47 m)

Armament:
      2 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 164.99lbs / 74.84kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1902 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 50.0 cal guns - 33.00lbs / 14.97kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 594 lbs / 269 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   305.00 ft / 92.96 m   4.00 ft / 1.22 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm         -         2.00" / 51 mm

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.25" / 32 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.25" / 32 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9,155 ihp / 6,829 Kw = 20.50 kts
   Range 4,200nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 510 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   204 - 266

Cost:
   £0.326 million / $1.304 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 145 tons, 4.8 %
      - Guns: 145 tons, 4.8 %
   Armour: 356 tons, 11.7 %
      - Belts: 135 tons, 4.4 %
      - Armament: 13 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 194 tons, 6.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 14 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,329 tons, 43.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 814 tons, 26.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 392 tons, 12.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.3 %
      - Above deck: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,366 lbs / 620 Kg = 8.0 x 7.0 " / 178 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.46
   Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 10.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.490 / 0.498
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.26 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.46 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.20 ft / 1.28 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Forward deck:   20.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   45.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.62 ft / 3.24 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 155.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 80.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,454 Square feet or 785 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 83 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 67 lbs/sq ft or 329 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.88
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Above decks miscellaneous weight allows for a short-range wireless set.

Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on April 15, 2013, 10:57:06 AM
USS Scorpion, United States Canal gunboat laid down 1905

Displacement:
   998 t light; 1,076 t standard; 1,137 t normal; 1,185 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (180.00 ft / 180.00 ft) x 40.00 ft x (8.50 / 8.81 ft)
   (54.86 m / 54.86 m) x 12.19 m  x (2.59 / 2.68 m)

Armament:
      2 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 164.99lbs / 74.84kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      6 - 4.00" / 102 mm 50.0 cal guns - 33.00lbs / 14.97kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 - 0.24" / 6.0 mm 108.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 1,200 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 528 lbs / 240 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   122.40 ft / 37.31 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 1,562 ihp / 1,166 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 1,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 109 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   97 - 127

Cost:
   £0.109 million / $0.438 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 127 tons, 11.1 %
      - Guns: 127 tons, 11.1 %
   Armour: 306 tons, 26.9 %
      - Belts: 136 tons, 12.0 %
      - Armament: 58 tons, 5.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 103 tons, 9.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 221 tons, 19.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 345 tons, 30.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 138 tons, 12.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,469 lbs / 666 Kg = 8.6 x 7.0 " / 178 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.53
   Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 10.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.654
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 13.42 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   18.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Aft deck:   38.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Quarter deck:   14.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:      8.14 ft / 2.48 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 86.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,516 Square feet or 512 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 60 lbs/sq ft or 292 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.36
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on April 30, 2013, 06:04:52 AM
This is a concept design, similar to a concept used in various wargames at the Naval War College during this period.  The idea is for a fast, armored, torpedo craft to serve with the battle line.

USS Lexington, United States Armored Torpedo Cruiser laid down 1902 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   8,446 t light; 8,757 t standard; 9,600 t normal; 10,275 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (500.00 ft / 500.00 ft) x 56.00 ft x (24.00 / 25.27 ft)
   (152.40 m / 152.40 m) x 17.07 m  x (7.32 / 7.70 m)

Armament:
      6 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 164.99lbs / 74.84kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1902 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 50.0 cal guns - 33.00lbs / 14.97kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 1,254 lbs / 569 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   390.00 ft / 118.87 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   109.98 ft / 33.52 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 120 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      4.00" / 102 mm
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 20,445 ihp / 15,252 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,518 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   484 - 630

Cost:
   £0.855 million / $3.420 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 282 tons, 2.9 %
      - Guns: 282 tons, 2.9 %
   Armour: 2,412 tons, 25.1 %
      - Belts: 1,450 tons, 15.1 %
      - Armament: 168 tons, 1.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 697 tons, 7.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 97 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 3,195 tons, 33.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,459 tons, 25.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,154 tons, 12.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 99 tons, 1.0 %
      - Hull below water: 74 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,367 lbs / 2,888 Kg = 37.1 x 7.0 " / 178 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
   Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 12.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.21
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.508
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.93 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   13.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Forward deck:   17.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Aft deck:   61.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarter deck:   9.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.32 ft / 3.75 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 119.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 88.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,656 Square feet or 1,733 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 89 lbs/sq ft or 436 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.08
      - Overall: 1.01
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Below-decks miscellaneous weight accounts for 20 18" 5m side mounted submerged torpedo tubes and 60 reload torpedoes.

Above-decks miscellaneous weight allows for a long-range wireless installation.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: Delta Force on April 30, 2013, 01:18:08 PM
If it's operating as part of the battle line you don't really need it to go 22 knots, unless it is going to work with the armored cruisers. If it does work with the armored cruisers it should probably resemble them as well, otherwise it will become quite the shell magnet.
Title: Re: Possible ships of the USN - post 1899
Post by: KWorld on April 30, 2013, 02:36:51 PM
Quote from: Delta Force on April 30, 2013, 01:18:08 PM
If it's operating as part of the battle line you don't really need it to go 22 knots, unless it is going to work with the armored cruisers. If it does work with the armored cruisers it should probably resemble them as well, otherwise it will become quite the shell magnet.

It needs to be able to go faster than the battle line to achieve a useful firing position if the enemy is respecting the range of torpedoes (as the USN expects to do).  Visually, it looks like a longer Boulder-class light AC.