Just a spot to post some of the wierd stuff I came up with in the past for the Nverse. Trust me it wasnt always the best (especialy my Nverse 1 stuff)
First off the protected cruiser Nike, I actualy intended to build this ship in N4 before I got pissed off at the rate of progress and subsequently got ate by RL.
Nike, Dominion of Deseret Protected Cruiser laid down 1879
Barbette ship
Displacement:
6,482 t light; 6,704 t standard; 7,698 t normal; 8,492 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(414.00 ft / 414.00 ft) x 60.00 ft x (22.00 / 23.69 ft)
(126.19 m / 126.19 m) x 18.29 m x (6.71 / 7.22 m)
Armament:
2 - 10.00" / 254 mm 25.0 cal guns - 414.01lbs / 187.79kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1879 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 6.00" / 152 mm 30.0 cal guns - 90.96lbs / 41.26kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1879 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.99lbs / 1.81kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1879 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,398 lbs / 634 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 370.00 ft / 112.78 m 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 137 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: - - 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 14,786 ihp / 11,031 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,788 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
410 - 534
Cost:
£0.709 million / $2.837 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 182 tons, 2.4 %
- Guns: 182 tons, 2.4 %
Armour: 416 tons, 5.4 %
- Belts: 117 tons, 1.5 %
- Armament: 39 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 260 tons, 3.4 %
Machinery: 3,098 tons, 40.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,740 tons, 35.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,216 tons, 15.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 46 tons, 0.6 %
- Hull below water: 46 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4,221 lbs / 1,915 Kg = 10.1 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.90
Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 9.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 88 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.12
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.75
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.493 / 0.505
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.90 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.35 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Forward deck: 35.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 13.57 ft / 4.14 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 137.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 99.3 %
Waterplane Area: 16,446 Square feet or 1,528 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 116 lbs/sq ft or 565 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.04
- Longitudinal: 1.82
- Overall: 1.10
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Next up is Jaguar, in N2 (I think it was N2 anyway) before the great exodus to N3 I was Spain, and the NS were building the Constitution class battleships, my answer to them was Jaguar. She started out just as a wtf for fun what would the Ticonderoga class cruisers have looked like in 1901 (naturaly with my tech limitations) and I was planing to lay down 2 the turn everyone jumped ship. Granted it couldnt be used under the N4.5 ruleset but its still an interesting ship and I would have loved to put them up against the Constitutions.
Jaguar, Espania Combat Cruiser laid down 1901 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
13,494 t light; 14,008 t standard; 15,834 t normal; 17,294 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(597.74 ft / 565.00 ft) x 65.00 ft x (30.00 / 32.08 ft)
(182.19 m / 172.21 m) x 19.81 m x (9.14 / 9.78 m)
Armament:
4 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 671.18lbs / 304.44kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1901 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
12 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1901 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 3,441 lbs / 1,561 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 367.25 ft / 111.94 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 197.73 ft / 60.27 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 367.25 ft / 111.94 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 9.00" / 229 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.00" / 229 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 39,988 shp / 29,831 Kw = 24.42 kts
Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,286 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
705 - 917
Cost:
£1.221 million / $4.884 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 732 tons, 4.6 %
- Guns: 732 tons, 4.6 %
Armour: 4,568 tons, 28.8 %
- Belts: 2,827 tons, 17.9 %
- Armament: 788 tons, 5.0 %
- Armour Deck: 830 tons, 5.2 %
- Conning Tower: 122 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 3,299 tons, 20.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,815 tons, 30.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,339 tons, 14.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 80 tons, 0.5 %
- Hull above water: 80 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
19,933 lbs / 9,041 Kg = 30.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 14.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.70
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.89
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.503 / 0.514
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.69 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.77 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 48.47 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.00 ft / 8.84 m, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 22.28 ft / 6.79 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.5 %
Waterplane Area: 24,536 Square feet or 2,279 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 119 lbs/sq ft or 583 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.15
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
and lastly somthing I might actualy build if the moderators (and other players) in their grace see fit to grant me permission to actualy participate.
I give you the Splendid Cats class Battleship. they are period acurate for 1900 on everything from the guns to tonage to the armor (based on the numbers given for a number of first class battleships in Firedmans and Conways) but they are a tad bit fast.
the class would consist of 4 ships with laydown dates all around 1900
Jaguar
Lion
Tiger
Panther
Jaguar, Who knows First Class Battleship laid down 1900
Displacement:
13,600 t light; 14,102 t standard; 15,837 t normal; 17,225 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(597.74 ft / 565.00 ft) x 65.00 ft x (30.00 / 31.98 ft)
(182.19 m / 172.21 m) x 19.81 m x (9.14 / 9.75 m)
Armament:
4 - 11.00" / 279 mm 40.0 cal guns - 529.00lbs / 239.95kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
16 - 5.00" / 127 mm 50.0 cal guns - 60.01lbs / 27.22kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
2 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 3,076 lbs / 1,395 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 367.25 ft / 111.94 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 197.73 ft / 60.27 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 367.25 ft / 111.94 m 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 9.00" / 229 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.00" / 229 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 20,000 ihp / 14,920 Kw = 20.26 kts
Range 6,500nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,122 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
705 - 917
Cost:
£1.177 million / $4.708 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 712 tons, 4.5 %
- Guns: 712 tons, 4.5 %
Armour: 4,940 tons, 31.2 %
- Belts: 3,172 tons, 20.0 %
- Armament: 815 tons, 5.1 %
- Armour Deck: 830 tons, 5.2 %
- Conning Tower: 122 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 3,094 tons, 19.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,615 tons, 29.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,237 tons, 14.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 239 tons, 1.5 %
- Hull below water: 79 tons
- Hull above water: 80 tons
- On freeboard deck: 80 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
21,117 lbs / 9,579 Kg = 31.7 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 14.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.96
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.503 / 0.513
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.69 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.77 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 36 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 38
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 48.47 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.00 ft / 8.84 m, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 22.28 ft / 6.79 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.5 %
Waterplane Area: 24,539 Square feet or 2,280 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 561 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.10
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
and yes I know the cross section is a bit low (ok so alot low but still there is a reason)
Design study based loosley on the Regina Elena, I more or less stole the dimensions deleated 4 8" guns and added another pair of 12" so it has 4X12/40 and 8X8/45, armor is per OTL (as far as I can tell) as is SHP (although speed fell a knot and a half about normal for SS). Opinions welcomed as I may actualy build this ship.
Regina Elena, Italia Battleship laid down 1896
Displacement:
13,606 t light; 14,183 t standard; 15,154 t normal; 15,931 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(474.00 ft / 474.00 ft) x 73.50 ft x (27.60 / 28.72 ft)
(144.48 m / 144.48 m) x 22.40 m x (8.41 / 8.75 m)
Armament:
4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 40.0 cal guns - 919.00lbs / 416.85kg shells, 70 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 8.00" / 203 mm 45.0 cal guns - 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 13.21lbs / 5.99kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1896 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 5,935 lbs / 2,692 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 330.00 ft / 100.58 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: 6.00" / 152 mm 144.00 ft / 43.89 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 322.32 ft / 98.24 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 107 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 1.40" / 36 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 22,000 ihp / 16,412 Kw = 20.54 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,747 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
682 - 887
Cost:
£1.469 million / $5.876 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,143 tons, 7.5 %
- Guns: 1,143 tons, 7.5 %
Armour: 4,227 tons, 27.9 %
- Belts: 2,396 tons, 15.8 %
- Armament: 1,103 tons, 7.3 %
- Armour Deck: 597 tons, 3.9 %
- Conning Tower: 132 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 3,667 tons, 24.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,548 tons, 30.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,548 tons, 10.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 21 tons, 0.1 %
- Hull below water: 21 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12,759 lbs / 5,787 Kg = 14.8 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 14.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.54
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.552 / 0.557
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.45 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.77 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 19.00 %, 26.00 ft / 7.92 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Aft deck: 32.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Quarter deck: 19.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 17.64 ft / 5.38 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 113.9 %
Waterplane Area: 24,349 Square feet or 2,262 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 94 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 679 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 1.94
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
I suspect the reason she's 3/4 of a knot slower than the design speed at the same horsepower is that yours is bigger and better armored than historical. :) Other than that, the freeboard is the main area I'd question: looks like you have enough rise from the forecastle to the bow that you may not be able to fire A turret directly ahead, and I don't see why you have the aft deck rising to the stern.
folowing the drawing, as to the rise she is one of them funky ships I could never decide if the A turret was suposed to be raised or not on... I have already leveld out the aft rise though (just not in the version i posted). The foreward pair of 8" twins are Definetly a deck lower than the Foreward 12" guns and springsharp wont allow you to put turreted guns below the freeboard... oh heck with explaining it here is a pic (NOT FINISHED)
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/th_RN_Regina_Elena.gif) (http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/?action=view¤t=RN_Regina_Elena.gif)
as you can see from the picture technicly Alpha should be raised... like I said never could figure out how to sim ships like that.
Nice & clean drawing.
Can't wait to see the final drawing with details.
Forza Italia!
Jef ;)
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 12, 2012, 03:39:20 PM
folowing the drawing, as to the rise she is one of them funky ships I could never decide if the A turret was suposed to be raised or not on... I have already leveld out the aft rise though (just not in the version i posted). The foreward pair of 8" twins are Definetly a deck lower than the Foreward 12" guns and springsharp wont allow you to put turreted guns below the freeboard... oh heck with explaining it here is a pic (NOT FINISHED)
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/th_RN_Regina_Elena.gif) (http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/?action=view¤t=RN_Regina_Elena.gif)
as you can see from the picture technicly Alpha should be raised... like I said never could figure out how to sim ships like that.
To sim it with the forward guns like they were in reality, you'd want to use a hull with a mid-break rather than a flush deck. If you put that break just behind A turret, then you can mount the forward 8" turret right behind it. If your ship doesn't have the center 8" turret, you won't need that rise between the 8" turrets in your picture, that was there so the middle secondary turret could fire either fore or aft over the other 8" turrets
Ill gove that a try, I honestly didnt even consider it because I got in buku trouble for using what were considerd "odd" breaks in N3 (ok ok so I figured out how to game SS2 to get "free" superfiring turrets aft, if you aint cheatin you aint tryin)
Update on the picture for anyone interested.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/th_RN_Regina_Elena-1.gif) (http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/?action=view¤t=RN_Regina_Elena-1.gif)
Very nice :o
I hope to made naval exercices with that nice class of BB.
Jef ;)
More Goofing, 21 knots with realy reasonable armor and firepower
Just Goofing, Italia Battleship laid down 1898
Displacement:
12,000 t light; 12,482 t standard; 13,360 t normal; 14,062 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(484.00 ft / 484.00 ft) x 65.00 ft x (25.00 / 26.07 ft)
(147.52 m / 147.52 m) x 19.81 m x (7.62 / 7.95 m)
Armament:
4 - 11.00" / 279 mm 40.0 cal guns - 529.00lbs / 239.95kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1898 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 8.00" / 203 mm 40.0 cal guns - 245.35lbs / 111.29kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1898 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
8 - 4.70" / 119 mm 40.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1898 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 4.70" / 119 mm 40.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,897 lbs / 1,768 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 342.00 ft / 104.24 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: 5.00" / 127 mm 142.00 ft / 43.28 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 109 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 8.00" / 203 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 22,037 ihp / 16,440 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,580 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
620 - 807
Cost:
£1.245 million / $4.980 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 732 tons, 5.5 %
- Guns: 732 tons, 5.5 %
Armour: 3,551 tons, 26.6 %
- Belts: 1,935 tons, 14.5 %
- Armament: 766 tons, 5.7 %
- Armour Deck: 728 tons, 5.5 %
- Conning Tower: 121 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 3,554 tons, 26.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,878 tons, 29.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,360 tons, 10.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 285 tons, 2.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 285 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9,949 lbs / 4,513 Kg = 14.9 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 15.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.595 / 0.600
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.45 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Aft deck: 41.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Quarter deck: 14.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 108.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.5 %
Waterplane Area: 22,892 Square feet or 2,127 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 125 lbs/sq ft or 610 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.33
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Not sure what the 285 tons on the deck is for. Other than that, and the kind of lightly armored casemates (1" faces, nothing on the hoists), looks OK from here. There's a good 9' of unarmored freeboard to shoot up, but unless a fire really gets going, that won't kill you.
the 285 tons is just stuff, call it a building reserve till I figure out what to do with it. for another 500 tons I can armor the entire freeboard, and it would look somthing like this
Just Goofing, Italia Battleship laid down 1898
Displacement:
12,500 t light; 12,993 t standard; 13,892 t normal; 14,611 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(484.00 ft / 484.00 ft) x 65.00 ft x (25.00 / 26.08 ft)
(147.52 m / 147.52 m) x 19.81 m x (7.62 / 7.95 m)
Armament:
4 - 11.00" / 279 mm 40.0 cal guns - 529.00lbs / 239.95kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1898 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 8.00" / 203 mm 40.0 cal guns - 245.35lbs / 111.29kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1898 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
8 - 4.70" / 119 mm 40.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1898 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 4.70" / 119 mm 40.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,897 lbs / 1,768 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 342.00 ft / 104.24 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: 5.00" / 127 mm 142.00 ft / 43.28 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Upper: 5.00" / 127 mm 342.00 ft / 104.24 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 109 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 8.00" / 203 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
3rd: 5.00" / 127 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 22,738 ihp / 16,963 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,618 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
639 - 831
Cost:
£1.278 million / $5.114 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 732 tons, 5.3 %
- Guns: 732 tons, 5.3 %
Armour: 4,203 tons, 30.3 %
- Belts: 2,516 tons, 18.1 %
- Armament: 819 tons, 5.9 %
- Armour Deck: 744 tons, 5.4 %
- Conning Tower: 125 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 3,667 tons, 26.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,895 tons, 28.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,392 tons, 10.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 3 tons, 0.0 %
- On freeboard deck: 3 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
10,585 lbs / 4,801 Kg = 15.9 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 15.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.19
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.618 / 0.623
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.45 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Aft deck: 41.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Quarter deck: 14.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.7 %
Waterplane Area: 23,401 Square feet or 2,174 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 123 lbs/sq ft or 602 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.29
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
*Note* I have no intention whatsoever of building this ship, it was just out of curiosity as to what level our ships would need to be armored to for them to achive imunity to their own or equivilant period guns. That said Ironicly it actualy kind of works... well its realy FAT, but it works sort of.
Fort Buster, Italia Canal Busting Battleship laid down 1898
Displacement:
13,500 t light; 14,120 t standard; 15,504 t normal; 16,611 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(390.00 ft / 390.00 ft) x 70.00 ft x (25.00 / 26.62 ft)
(118.87 m / 118.87 m) x 21.34 m x (7.62 / 8.11 m)
Armament:
4 - 11.00" / 279 mm 40.0 cal guns - 529.00lbs / 239.95kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1898 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
16 - 6.00" / 152 mm 40.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1898 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
Weight of broadside 3,716 lbs / 1,686 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 24.0" / 610 mm 253.50 ft / 77.27 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Ends: 12.0" / 305 mm 136.48 ft / 41.60 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 12.0" / 305 mm 253.50 ft / 77.27 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 24.0" / 610 mm 12.0" / 305 mm 18.0" / 457 mm
2nd: 12.0" / 305 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 6.00" / 152 mm
Forecastle: 3.00" / 76 mm Quarter deck: 3.00" / 76 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 24.00" / 610 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
No fuel, Internal combustion motors,
No drive to shaft, 2 shafts, 9,916 shp / 7,397 Kw = 16.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,492 tons
Complement:
694 - 903
Cost:
£0.754 million / $3.016 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 663 tons, 4.3 %
- Guns: 663 tons, 4.3 %
Armour: 9,513 tons, 61.4 %
- Belts: 5,486 tons, 35.4 %
- Armament: 1,292 tons, 8.3 %
- Armour Deck: 2,413 tons, 15.6 %
- Conning Tower: 321 tons, 2.1 %
Machinery: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,324 tons, 21.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,004 tons, 12.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
72,537 lbs / 32,902 Kg = 109.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 12.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.33
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.51
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.795 / 0.800
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.57 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.75 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 19.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 91.8 %
Waterplane Area: 23,899 Square feet or 2,220 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 112 lbs/sq ft or 546 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.72
- Overall: 1.01
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Yeah, your BC is really high. But there's an even bigger problem...
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 30, 2012, 10:01:11 AM
Machinery:
No fuel, Internal combustion motors,
No drive to shaft, 2 shafts, 9,916 shp / 7,397 Kw = 16.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,492 tons
She won't be going very far...
I tried redoing her with SS2 (coal-fired VTE's) and it failed spectacularly. I don't think you can fix this one without cutting armor by at least a third if not more, which defeats the purpose of the design.
Just throwing this out incase anyone wants to use it for somthing, I initialy planed to use them for my own fleet but decided against it...
PCX-1899, Italia for Export Protected Cruiser laid down 1899
Displacement:
2,500 t light; 2,615 t standard; 2,911 t normal; 3,148 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(306.00 ft / 305.00 ft) x 35.00 ft x (18.00 / 19.13 ft)
(93.27 m / 92.96 m) x 10.67 m x (5.49 / 5.83 m)
Armament:
2 - 8.00" / 203 mm 40.0 cal guns - 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1899 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
7 - 4.70" / 119 mm 40.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1899 Model
3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
3 raised mounts
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 850 lbs / 386 kg
Main Torpedoes
8 - 17.0" / 432 mm, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m torpedoes - 0.388 t each, 3.107 t total
In 8 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 300.00 ft / 91.44 m 6.00 ft / 1.83 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 5.00 ft / 1.52 m 6.00 ft / 1.83 m
Main Belt covers 151 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 6.00" / 152 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,057 ihp / 6,011 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 4,400nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 533 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
197 - 257
Cost:
£0.309 million / $1.235 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 174 tons, 6.0 %
- Guns: 170 tons, 5.8 %
- Weapons: 4 tons, 0.1 %
Armour: 407 tons, 14.0 %
- Belts: 140 tons, 4.8 %
- Armament: 36 tons, 1.2 %
- Armour Deck: 205 tons, 7.0 %
- Conning Tower: 26 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,183 tons, 40.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 721 tons, 24.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 411 tons, 14.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 15 tons, 0.5 %
- On freeboard deck: 15 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,128 lbs / 512 Kg = 4.4 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 13.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.79
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.06
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.530 / 0.539
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.71 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.46 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 4.77 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 10.00 %, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Aft deck: 65.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 9.17 ft / 2.80 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 149.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 62.5 %
Waterplane Area: 7,314 Square feet or 679 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 83 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 66 lbs/sq ft or 323 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.73
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Capital ship Circa 1912 (maybe I dont realy like her so much once I made her rules compliant, although it still gives you a general idea where im headed if not how I intend to get there)
BC-1912, Italia Battlecruiser laid down 1912 (Engine 1911)
Displacement:
23,000 t light; 23,960 t standard; 25,718 t normal; 27,125 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(690.29 ft / 690.29 ft) x 95.10 ft x (27.20 / 28.32 ft)
(210.40 m / 210.40 m) x 28.99 m x (8.29 / 8.63 m)
Armament:
8 - 12.00" / 305 mm 50.0 cal guns - 870.01lbs / 394.63kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1912 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
14 - 5.00" / 127 mm 51.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1912 Model
14 x Single mounts on side ends, majority forward
Weight of broadside 7,660 lbs / 3,475 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 448.69 ft / 136.76 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 241.58 ft / 73.63 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 448.69 ft / 136.76 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.50" / 38 mm 448.69 ft / 136.76 m 24.25 ft / 7.39 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 88.10 ft / 26.85 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 13.00" / 330 mm, Aft 10.00" / 254 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 70,000 shp / 52,220 Kw = 26.43 kts
Range 5,600nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,165 tons
Complement:
1,015 - 1,320
Cost:
£2.012 million / $8.047 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,606 tons, 6.2 %
- Guns: 1,606 tons, 6.2 %
Armour: 8,783 tons, 34.1 %
- Belts: 4,396 tons, 17.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 604 tons, 2.3 %
- Armament: 1,866 tons, 7.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,485 tons, 5.8 %
- Conning Towers: 432 tons, 1.7 %
Machinery: 2,841 tons, 11.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,431 tons, 36.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,718 tons, 10.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 340 tons, 1.3 %
- Hull above water: 200 tons
- On freeboard deck: 70 tons
- Above deck: 70 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
39,766 lbs / 18,038 Kg = 46.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 6.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 16.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.28
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.504 / 0.511
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.26 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.27 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m, 22.20 ft / 6.77 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 22.20 ft / 6.77 m, 19.50 ft / 5.94 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 19.50 ft / 5.94 m, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 19.28 ft / 5.88 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.8 %
Waterplane Area: 43,903 Square feet or 4,079 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 166 lbs/sq ft or 813 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.21
- Overall: 1.02
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
and the preceding generation of Large Armored Cruiser (pride of the fleet, badest ship in the world, yada yada yada)
CB-1 RMS Nike, Italia Battlecruiser laid down 1907 (Engine 1908)
Displacement:
16,500 t light; 17,221 t standard; 18,968 t normal; 20,365 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(550.00 ft / 550.00 ft) x 86.00 ft x (28.00 / 29.55 ft)
(167.64 m / 167.64 m) x 26.21 m x (8.53 / 9.01 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 671.17lbs / 304.44kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1907 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
8 - 4.70" / 119 mm 45.0 cal guns - 52.35lbs / 23.75kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1907 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 13.62lbs / 6.18kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1907 Model
8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 5,897 lbs / 2,675 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 341.00 ft / 103.94 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 208.98 ft / 63.70 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 341.00 ft / 103.94 m 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.00" / 25 mm 341.00 ft / 103.94 m 24.67 ft / 7.52 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 79.00 ft / 24.08 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 9.00" / 229 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm 2.00" / 51 mm -
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 11.00" / 279 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 50,852 shp / 37,936 Kw = 25.00 kts
Range 4,400nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,144 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
807 - 1,050
Cost:
£1.496 million / $5.984 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,059 tons, 5.6 %
- Guns: 1,059 tons, 5.6 %
Armour: 5,929 tons, 31.3 %
- Belts: 3,117 tons, 16.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 311 tons, 1.6 %
- Armament: 1,283 tons, 6.8 %
- Armour Deck: 1,050 tons, 5.5 %
- Conning Tower: 169 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 2,797 tons, 14.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,396 tons, 33.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,468 tons, 13.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 319 tons, 1.7 %
- On freeboard deck: 319 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
26,478 lbs / 12,010 Kg = 39.8 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 4.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 15.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.35
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.501 / 0.510
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.40 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -5.00 ft / -1.52 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 19.00 %, 25.00 ft / 7.62 m, 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Forward deck: 14.00 %, 25.00 ft / 7.62 m, 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Aft deck: 48.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Quarter deck: 19.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Average freeboard: 20.31 ft / 6.19 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145.8 %
Waterplane Area: 31,551 Square feet or 2,931 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 147 lbs/sq ft or 719 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.90
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
319 tons Misc weight
250 tons FC equipment
25 tons long range wireless set
44 tons stuff to be determind
A 1907 ship's gonna have a hard time being built with a 1908 tech system (the fire control), and the main turret sides are ridiculously thin. I'd also want more than 4 4.7" guns per side.
agreed on the FC, but it can always be a building reserve, as to the 2" sides on the main turrets... ever look at VDT and the I's? VDT nad 1.2" sides and rear with a 9" face, while the I's had 4" sides and rear with a 7" face (Yikes). but all told a 2" side and rear isnt to out of line (especialy with 12" faces)
Quote from: KWorld on December 05, 2012, 10:35:40 AM
A 1907 ship's gonna have a hard time being built with a 1908 tech system (the fire control), and the main turret sides are ridiculously thin. I'd also want more than 4 4.7" guns per side.
I'm finding LOTS of conflicting numbers for how thick or thin VDT's turret sides were, ranging from 180mm down.
I tend toward trusting Conways (if for no other reason than generaly everyone has a copy unlike Friedmans), who lists it as 9"-2.4" on the turrets with 9"-1.2" on the barbs (not somthing we can efectivly sim even if it was a period practice). Still 2" vs 2.4" not that great a diference honestly.
Quote from: KWorld on December 05, 2012, 11:19:26 AM
I'm finding LOTS of conflicting numbers for how thick or thin VDT's turret sides were, ranging from 180mm down.
Two inch sides are ridiculously thin and make the turrets vulnerable to even the smallest caliber guns. I would up them to at least four.
As I pointed out previously a Period Battlecruiser had 1.2-4" sides and 7-9" faces, since I have a 12" face (heavier than some period Battleships) I could reduce the face to 10" or so and easily up the sides to 4"+ should I so choose.
Quote from: Delta Force on December 07, 2012, 10:06:47 PM
Two inch sides are ridiculously thin and make the turrets vulnerable to even the smallest caliber guns. I would up them to at least four.
So I got borde last night and started messing around with SS3, Came up with this. I have no intention of building it personaly but it was kinda neat so thought I would go ahead and post it here (realy I should consider building it ubt nah not Italias thing)
Wgdiwts, Sudistan Battleship laid down 1900
Displacement:
13,000 t light; 13,569 t standard; 14,713 t normal; 15,628 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(414.00 ft / 414.00 ft) x 72.00 ft x (27.00 / 28.42 ft)
(126.19 m / 126.19 m) x 21.95 m x (8.23 / 8.66 m)
Armament:
4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 40.0 cal guns - 828.07lbs / 375.60kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
10 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 108.92lbs / 49.41kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 13.62lbs / 6.18kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 13.62lbs / 6.18kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 4,619 lbs / 2,095 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 270.00 ft / 82.30 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 144.00 ft / 43.89 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 7.00" / 178 mm 270.00 ft / 82.30 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 4.00" / 102 mm
Forecastle: 2.50" / 64 mm Quarter deck: 2.50" / 64 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 19,000 ihp / 14,174 Kw = 19.44 kts
Range 6,600nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,060 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
667 - 868
Cost:
£1.208 million / $4.831 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 842 tons, 5.7 %
- Guns: 842 tons, 5.7 %
Armour: 5,717 tons, 38.9 %
- Belts: 3,203 tons, 21.8 %
- Armament: 790 tons, 5.4 %
- Armour Deck: 1,569 tons, 10.7 %
- Conning Tower: 155 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 2,969 tons, 20.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,382 tons, 23.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,713 tons, 11.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 91 tons, 0.6 %
- On freeboard deck: 91 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,773 lbs / 6,701 Kg = 17.1 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 14.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.640 / 0.646
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.75 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.35 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Average freeboard: 13.97 ft / 4.26 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 85.0 %
Waterplane Area: 22,620 Square feet or 2,101 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 118 lbs/sq ft or 578 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.87
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
So I am not planing to build any of them, but I thought it would be fun just to see how hard I could push on 1900 VTEs. I can get faster but not efectivly (aka I couldnt get armor or guns worth the tonage on a 25 knot ship). Thought I would go ahead and post it though, maybe it gives one of you rich guys an idea for somthing you will actualy build *gives the US and UK Dirty looks*.
Fast as I could get, N/A Armoured Cruiser laid down 1900
Displacement:
15,000 t light; 15,565 t standard; 16,959 t normal; 18,075 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(534.25 ft / 529.00 ft) x 75.00 ft x (28.00 / 29.43 ft)
(162.84 m / 161.24 m) x 22.86 m x (8.53 / 8.97 m)
Armament:
4 - 11.00" / 279 mm 40.0 cal guns - 529.00lbs / 239.95kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,556 lbs / 1,613 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 406.00 ft / 123.75 m 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 123.00 ft / 37.49 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 350.00 ft / 106.68 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Main Belt covers 118 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 5.00" / 127 mm - -
3rd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
4th: 1.50" / 38 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 34,734 ihp / 25,912 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 7,494nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,510 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
742 - 965
Cost:
£1.555 million / $6.221 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 719 tons, 4.2 %
- Guns: 719 tons, 4.2 %
Armour: 4,475 tons, 26.4 %
- Belts: 2,848 tons, 16.8 %
- Armament: 562 tons, 3.3 %
- Armour Deck: 923 tons, 5.4 %
- Conning Tower: 142 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 5,373 tons, 31.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,309 tons, 25.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,959 tons, 11.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 123 tons, 0.7 %
- On freeboard deck: 123 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12,623 lbs / 5,726 Kg = 19.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.45
Metacentric height 6.1 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 12.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.42
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.534 / 0.542
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.05 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.03 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 19.20 ft / 5.85 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.20 ft / 5.85 m, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 16.28 ft / 4.96 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 118.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.4 %
Waterplane Area: 27,285 Square feet or 2,535 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 94 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 116 lbs/sq ft or 565 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.47
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
123 tons Misc weight for whatever
Sigfried Breyer lists' the I's turret face and sides each at 178mm, VDT is 230mm, with a 90mm top.
As for the AC
Your main battery is singles... :)
I'm also not keen on a 0.534 BC on such a ship. BC's always a hard one, as I have an idea of what the historic ranges were, but not a firm idea of *why*.
As I recall, one iteration of the Regina Margherita class came out similar.
However, I went with a slower (20kt) version, with similar side armor and more firepower. Much more a battleship than battlecruiser, with enough smaller guns to be self-escorting - or batter the @#$ out of a foe 5,000m away.
I have more deck armor - the same ~50mm main deck, but also a 30mm deck capping the casements to make them immune to anything less than main guns.
However, I invested heavier in weaponry, giving a roughly 50% greater throw weight/min at combat ranges.
I also carry torpedo nets and an almost 3% construction reserve.
well fixing the turrets (Again, I swear I set that once) actualy cleard up .03 composite LOL... so what should the BC on a ship like this be? My BCs tend to be all over the place honestly, but mostly on the low side generaly... I actualy based this one loosely on Derfflinger (just for the hullform)
This reminds me of Foxy's pre-dread battlecruisers.
The hull dimensions are very close to what I wound up with for the Reginas. I needed length to fit my double stacked casements in to explore the heavy intermediate battery. I think the best speed I wound up with was 22, then I backed down to 20. I believe she's at 0.554. Well, if I ever have funds to complete her.
As for proper BC....I can't give a definitive answer. It's one of those things that doesn't get cited in most sources. Worse, you get some ridiculously low BCs if you look at USN vessels in the 1940s once they started doing that bow extension I think someone figured Alaska at ~.49 or something. However USN ships of that era not only had an unconventional hull form, but sacrificed the TDS depth forward, and used STS steel for basic construction - not a good basis of comparison.
I did reverse engineer a bunch of vessels in Springsharp. Cruiser built vessels seem to have been from around .5 and up, battleships mid 0.5s to mid 0.6s. Bigger ships usually have higher BCs, not exclusively, but oft the heavy ship with slimmer BCs have a service history that alludes to them being too lightly built. For me, I'll tend to mutter about it for cruisers under 0.48, for BCs under 0.55, and ships over 0.65. That doesn't mean I'm right, just pointing out that things seem to be pushed compared to historical vessels.
Be happy to hear other opinions & data though.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on October 03, 2014, 05:27:44 PM
This reminds me of Foxy's pre-dread battlecruisers.
You too?
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on October 03, 2014, 05:34:05 PM
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on October 03, 2014, 05:27:44 PM
This reminds me of Foxy's pre-dread battlecruisers.
You too?
No sim is truly complete without a rag-tag horde of obsolete destroyers somewhere.
the only battlecruiser I have worked with extensivly is the Derfflinger classand I know their BC comes in around .510, as to looking like a DF predread BC, well someone has to do it. I like to push my tech as hard as I can within the rules, although I realy do intend to go more German style for my eventual Battle Cruisers (11 and 12 inch guns forever begin did you know you can get 8X11/45 aBXy on 12000 tons and still hit 23 knots)
@Rock Hey I dont have a true horde of destroyers... well not yet anyway :P
My first atempt at an actual "Battlecruiser" Honestly I may end up building it even though im not exactly happy with the armor level... BC is on the low side but it is in the range where many of the late ACs/early BCs fell so while the ships might have issues with hull stress long term I felt that I wouldnt know that... Hypotheticly it would be capable of an 8 gun broadside (although arcs would be linited obviously, still I think it would work), and yes it has wing turrets (GAH I hate wing turrets, but atleast im doing somthing different for a change).
Johan van Galen, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1905
Displacement:
14,000 t light; 14,698 t standard; 16,324 t normal; 17,625 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(529.00 ft / 529.00 ft) x 80.00 ft x (28.00 / 29.64 ft)
(161.24 m / 161.24 m) x 24.38 m x (8.53 / 9.03 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 85 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck centre
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6,768 lbs / 3,070 kg
2nd Torpedoes
4 - 0.0" / 0 mm, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m torpedoes - 0.000 t each, 0.000 t total
In 1 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 350.00 ft / 106.68 m 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 179.00 ft / 54.56 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 250.00 ft / 76.20 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
3rd: 3.00" / 76 mm - -
4th: 1.50" / 38 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 0.75" / 19 mm Quarter deck: 0.75" / 19 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 33,526 ihp / 25,010 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 6,600nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,926 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
721 - 938
Cost:
£1.549 million / $6.198 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,193 tons, 7.3 %
- Guns: 1,193 tons, 7.3 %
Armour: 4,073 tons, 25.0 %
- Belts: 2,123 tons, 13.0 %
- Armament: 916 tons, 5.6 %
- Armour Deck: 895 tons, 5.5 %
- Conning Tower: 139 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 3,513 tons, 21.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,120 tons, 31.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,324 tons, 14.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 101 tons, 0.6 %
- Hull below water: 24 tons
- Hull above water: 20 tons
- On freeboard deck: 57 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
16,435 lbs / 7,455 Kg = 24.7 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.34
Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 13.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.53
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.482 / 0.492
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.61 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -4.50 degrees
Stern overhang: -4.50 ft / -1.37 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 19.00 %, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Forward deck: 6.00 %, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Aft deck: 56.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Quarter deck: 19.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 17.75 ft / 5.41 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.3 %
Waterplane Area: 27,748 Square feet or 2,578 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 137 lbs/sq ft or 669 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.84
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
101 tons Misc. weight total
Hull below water: 24 tons
1 ton Bow: 18" torpedo tube
4 tons sides: 18" torpedo tubes (one at either end of Citidel per side)
1 ton Stern: 18" torpedo tube
Hull above water: 20 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
10 tons: Reserve
On Main deck: 57 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
47 tons: Reserve
Not bad, not bad.
I've been kind of contemplating a VDT clone as an Ottoman BC, but I haven't quite sorted out what I'm doing about capital ships in the dreadnought era. I don't think the Ottos can afford to build useful quantities of both BBs and BCs, so something's going to give.
I think honestly I will be better served building Battlecruisers given my commitments, this one is more or less what SMS Blucher might have looked like if Germany had known GB was building the I's (instead of the ACs Germany thought they were building). Obviously I have nad to make some concessions to our tech rules but still it works, and I have the drawing like half finished (it would be capable of limited cross deck fire), so if I get motivated to finish the drawing I will likley build it.
*edit*
In alot of ways it isn't what I realy want, but until I get decent SHP turbines im not sure I could build what I want to... Idealy I would build 8X11 or preferably 8X12 battleships that while slightly slower than BCs would have heavier armor and be faster than BBs, and then build a sort of "Super Cruiser" with 6X11 and BC speed/armour. That however wont work untill the next generation of turbines (when I can go to full turbine power plants)
This is more what my ships will look like with 1905 (engine year 1909) engines. Sorta kinda Derfflinger light, and 1906 is the earliest I could realisticly build it(more likley 1907 but that 1 year dosnt realy matter for SS). Armour Protection is reasonable, speed is good, guns might be a bit week but they are OTL realistic for the laydown date so im not gona complain to much.
Pieter Florisse, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1906 (Engine 1909)
Displacement:
17,000 t light; 17,782 t standard; 19,606 t normal; 21,065 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(564.79 ft / 560.00 ft) x 87.00 ft x (29.00 / 30.59 ft)
(172.15 m / 170.69 m) x 26.52 m x (8.84 / 9.32 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1906 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1906 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 40.00lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mount, 1906 Model
1 x Single mount on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 6,808 lbs / 3,088 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 364.00 ft / 110.95 m 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
Ends: 5.00" / 127 mm 195.98 ft / 59.73 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 5.00" / 127 mm 364.00 ft / 110.95 m 9.29 ft / 2.83 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 9.00" / 229 mm
2nd: 5.00" / 127 mm - -
3rd: 1.50" / 38 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 8.00" / 203 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 47,853 shp / 35,698 Kw = 24.58 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,283 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
827 - 1,076
Cost:
£1.498 million / $5.994 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,200 tons, 6.1 %
- Guns: 1,200 tons, 6.1 %
Armour: 6,521 tons, 33.3 %
- Belts: 3,390 tons, 17.3 %
- Armament: 1,278 tons, 6.5 %
- Armour Deck: 1,570 tons, 8.0 %
- Conning Towers: 282 tons, 1.4 %
Machinery: 2,369 tons, 12.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,522 tons, 33.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,606 tons, 13.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 389 tons, 2.0 %
- Hull below water: 24 tons
- Hull above water: 20 tons
- On freeboard deck: 345 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
28,409 lbs / 12,886 Kg = 42.7 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 3.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 16.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.31
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.486 / 0.495
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.44 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.66 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 11.77 degrees
Stern overhang: -5.00 ft / -1.52 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m, 21.25 ft / 6.48 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.25 ft / 6.48 m, 18.50 ft / 5.64 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.50 ft / 5.64 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 18.29 ft / 5.57 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 132.3 %
Waterplane Area: 32,045 Square feet or 2,977 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 152 lbs/sq ft or 742 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.79
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
389 tons Misc. Weight total
Hull below water: 24 tons
1 ton Bow: 18" torpedo tube
4 tons sides 18" torpedo tubes (one at either end of Citidel per side)
1 ton Stern: 18" torpedo tube
18 tons: 3 reloads per torpedo tube
Hull above water: 20 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
10 tons: Reserve
On Main deck: 305 tons
250 tons: Fire control
25 tons: Long range wireless
10 tons: Flag facilities
60 tons: Reserve
and now a much more me version of BC-1905, IDK honestly which I prefer the one with wing turrets or this one... Sort of a Lion layout, was what I was trying for...
Johan van Galen, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1905
Displacement:
14,000 t light; 14,699 t standard; 16,325 t normal; 17,626 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(529.00 ft / 529.00 ft) x 79.00 ft x (28.00 / 29.65 ft)
(161.24 m / 161.24 m) x 24.08 m x (8.53 / 9.04 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 85 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6,768 lbs / 3,070 kg
2nd Torpedoes
4 - 0.0" / 0 mm, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m torpedoes - 0.000 t each, 0.000 t total
In 1 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 350.00 ft / 106.68 m 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 179.00 ft / 54.56 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 250.00 ft / 76.20 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
3rd: 3.00" / 76 mm - -
4th: 1.50" / 38 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 0.75" / 19 mm Quarter deck: 0.75" / 19 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 33,560 ihp / 25,036 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 6,600nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,928 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
721 - 938
Cost:
£1.550 million / $6.200 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,193 tons, 7.3 %
- Guns: 1,193 tons, 7.3 %
Armour: 4,041 tons, 24.8 %
- Belts: 2,120 tons, 13.0 %
- Armament: 893 tons, 5.5 %
- Armour Deck: 889 tons, 5.4 %
- Conning Tower: 139 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 3,516 tons, 21.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,059 tons, 31.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,325 tons, 14.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 191 tons, 1.2 %
- Hull below water: 24 tons
- Hull above water: 20 tons
- On freeboard deck: 147 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,423 lbs / 6,542 Kg = 21.7 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 14.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.26
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.488 / 0.498
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.70 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -4.50 ft / -1.37 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 19.00 %, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Forward deck: 31.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Aft deck: 31.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarter deck: 19.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Average freeboard: 15.10 ft / 4.60 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.9 %
Waterplane Area: 27,551 Square feet or 2,560 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs/sq ft or 684 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.56
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
191 tons Misc. weight total
Hull below water: 24 tons
1 ton Bow: 18" torpedo tube
4 tons sides: 18" torpedo tubes (one at either end of Citidel per side)
1 ton Stern: 18" torpedo tube
Hull above water: 20 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
10 tons: Reserve
On Main deck: 57 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
137 tons: Reserve
Smallest Dreadnaught possible (with reasonable armour and firepower obviously). I may have just managed it, although odds are someone will do better they would have to either reduce the armour or accept lower firepower...
Proposal 1900-06, Unified Netherlands Battleship laid down 1905
Displacement:
12,000 t light; 12,648 t standard; 14,503 t normal; 15,987 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(460.00 ft / 460.00 ft) x 79.00 ft x (26.00 / 28.07 ft)
(140.21 m / 140.21 m) x 24.08 m x (7.92 / 8.56 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 85 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 40.00lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
12 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 6,608 lbs / 2,997 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 299.00 ft / 91.14 m 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 161.00 ft / 49.07 m 10.67 ft / 3.25 m
Upper: 5.00" / 127 mm 299.00 ft / 91.14 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 5.00" / 127 mm - -
3rd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,630 shp / 14,644 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,338 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
660 - 859
Cost:
£1.208 million / $4.833 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,167 tons, 8.0 %
- Guns: 1,167 tons, 8.0 %
Armour: 4,826 tons, 33.3 %
- Belts: 2,626 tons, 18.1 %
- Armament: 976 tons, 6.7 %
- Armour Deck: 1,223 tons, 8.4 %
Machinery: 1,620 tons, 11.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,322 tons, 29.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,503 tons, 17.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 66 tons, 0.5 %
- Hull below water: 20 tons
- Hull above water: 20 tons
- On freeboard deck: 26 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
21,835 lbs / 9,904 Kg = 32.8 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
Metacentric height 6.4 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 13.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.68
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.537 / 0.548
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.82 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 17.50 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Quarter deck: 17.50 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Average freeboard: 17.37 ft / 5.29 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123.0 %
Waterplane Area: 25,063 Square feet or 2,328 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 133 lbs/sq ft or 652 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.10
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Proly wont build it but I really liked this ship, so thought I would post it here in case someone else decided it fit for their navy.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
13,400 t light; 14,139 t standard; 14,965 t normal; 15,625 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(460.00 ft / 460.00 ft) x 79.00 ft x (27.00 / 27.93 ft)
(140.21 m / 140.21 m) x 24.08 m x (8.23 / 8.51 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 108.92lbs / 49.41kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
20 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.27lbs / 14.64kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
20 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
4 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.27lbs / 14.64kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 7,410 lbs / 3,361 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 299.00 ft / 91.14 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 160.98 ft / 49.07 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 299.00 ft / 91.14 m 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
3rd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 6.00" / 152 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 20,000 shp / 14,920 Kw = 20.01 kts
Range 3,984nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,486 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
676 - 879
Cost:
£1.303 million / $5.212 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,306 tons, 8.7 %
- Guns: 1,306 tons, 8.7 %
Armour: 5,629 tons, 37.6 %
- Belts: 3,006 tons, 20.1 %
- Armament: 1,190 tons, 7.9 %
- Armour Deck: 1,224 tons, 8.2 %
- Conning Towers: 209 tons, 1.4 %
Machinery: 1,667 tons, 11.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,664 tons, 31.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,565 tons, 10.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 135 tons, 0.9 %
- On freeboard deck: 135 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
21,632 lbs / 9,812 Kg = 32.5 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 14.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.83
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.534 / 0.539
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.82 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -8.50 ft / -2.59 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m, 20.50 ft / 6.25 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 19.50 ft / 5.94 m
- Aft deck: 50.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 19.50 ft / 5.94 m
- Average freeboard: 19.65 ft / 5.99 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.9 %
Waterplane Area: 24,980 Square feet or 2,321 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 141 lbs/sq ft or 688 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.90
- Longitudinal: 2.53
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Please, test this SS with VTE engines, without any other changement.
(I'm not sure that early turbines are economical...)
Jef ;)
Quote from: Jefgte on November 07, 2015, 01:48:47 AM
Please, test this SS with VTE engines, without any other changement.
(I'm not sure that early turbines are economical...)
Jef ;)
Had to let her gain 1K tons and drop a little armour to make the VTEs work but here it is Jef.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
14,500 t light; 15,260 t standard; 15,970 t normal; 16,538 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(460.00 ft / 460.00 ft) x 79.00 ft x (27.00 / 27.77 ft)
(140.21 m / 140.21 m) x 24.08 m x (8.23 / 8.46 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 108.93lbs / 49.41kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
20 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.28lbs / 14.64kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
20 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
4 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.28lbs / 14.64kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 7,410 lbs / 3,361 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 299.00 ft / 91.14 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 160.98 ft / 49.07 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 299.00 ft / 91.14 m 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
3rd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.25" / 57 mm
Forecastle: 1.25" / 32 mm Quarter deck: 1.25" / 32 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 6.00" / 152 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 21,082 ihp / 15,727 Kw = 20.01 kts
Range 3,984nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,279 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
709 - 923
Cost:
£1.536 million / $6.144 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,306 tons, 8.2 %
- Guns: 1,306 tons, 8.2 %
Armour: 5,251 tons, 32.9 %
- Belts: 2,848 tons, 17.8 %
- Armament: 1,190 tons, 7.4 %
- Armour Deck: 994 tons, 6.2 %
- Conning Towers: 219 tons, 1.4 %
Machinery: 3,055 tons, 19.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,754 tons, 29.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,470 tons, 9.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 135 tons, 0.8 %
- On freeboard deck: 135 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17,686 lbs / 8,022 Kg = 26.6 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.74
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.570 / 0.574
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.82 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -8.50 ft / -2.59 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 23.00 ft / 7.01 m, 20.50 ft / 6.25 m
- Forward deck: 15.00 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 19.50 ft / 5.94 m
- Aft deck: 50.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 19.50 ft / 5.94 m
- Average freeboard: 19.65 ft / 5.99 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133.1 %
Waterplane Area: 25,834 Square feet or 2,400 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 93 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs/sq ft or 682 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.34
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
1667t for turbines - 20 000 shp
3055t for VTE - 21 000 shp
Turbines are lighter.
Jef ;)
oh for sure mate, just not quite as small and well armoured with VTEs as with Turbines. admittedly it also required less fuel.
Quote from: Jefgte on November 07, 2015, 03:54:32 PM
1667t for turbines - 20 000 shp
3055t for VTE - 21 000 shp
Turbines are lighter.
Jef ;)
I note too that it is not possible to have 21kts with 20 000 shp & turbines for a small dreadnought.
Jef ;)
oh for sure, but you can do 23+ on VTEs... well if you are willing to give up a little protection you can anyway =P
Quote from: Jefgte on November 08, 2015, 03:23:51 AM
I note too that it is not possible to have 21kts with 20 000 shp & turbines for a small dreadnought.
Jef ;)
so something like this what you are talking about Jef? Not a bad ship all around, but I had to make several sacrifices I would rather not have made. it is an interesting if not altogether time proof design.
Nike, Unified Netherlands Battleship laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)
Displacement:
10,500 t light; 11,054 t standard; 11,752 t normal; 12,311 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(484.00 ft / 484.00 ft) x 73.00 ft x (23.42 / 24.25 ft)
(147.52 m / 147.52 m) x 22.25 m x (7.14 / 7.39 m)
Armament:
8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 671.17lbs / 304.44kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
20 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 5,969 lbs / 2,708 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 314.60 ft / 95.89 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 169.38 ft / 51.63 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 314.60 ft / 95.89 m 8.50 ft / 2.59 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 20,000 shp / 14,920 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,257 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
563 - 733
Cost:
£1.131 million / $4.525 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,078 tons, 9.2 %
- Guns: 1,078 tons, 9.2 %
Armour: 3,692 tons, 31.4 %
- Belts: 1,948 tons, 16.6 %
- Armament: 838 tons, 7.1 %
- Armour Deck: 794 tons, 6.8 %
- Conning Tower: 111 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,650 tons, 14.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,039 tons, 34.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,252 tons, 10.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 42 tons, 0.4 %
- On freeboard deck: 42 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
13,596 lbs / 6,167 Kg = 20.4 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.42
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.497 / 0.503
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.63 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m, 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 14.50 ft / 4.42 m, 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 14.50 ft / 4.42 m, 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 14.50 ft / 4.42 m, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
- Average freeboard: 14.81 ft / 4.51 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115.2 %
Waterplane Area: 23,483 Square feet or 2,182 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 657 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.61
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Interresting choices
8" for the belt & 2" for the deck are short.
4000nm for the range is short too.
To see what is possible, remove 1T2x280 & increase armor...
My project République & Démocratie are 17000t-3T2x12"-21kts & 27000shp
http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,6860.15.html
Jef ;)
I actually played around with an AQY on the same tonnage. A much better ship I agree even if it was a bit short on firepower, I considered building it until I decided that by the time it came out there would be real BBs making 21 knots not far off, so if I was going to go for fast I had to push to 23+ knots and that well basically requires VTEs at this point.