I've decided to start with armaments first, so that I can standardize my armaments. I don't know too much about pre-dreadnought weaponry and hopefully you guys can help me to whittle down this list to a few guns, especially when it comes to the closer calibers that can somewhat be merged in roles. I plan on having my naval artillery be overcharged for its size to gain a higher muzzle velocity and thus a flatter trajectory, so the shells are somewhat light for their caliber.
Also, would there be any real life precedent for having the artillery caliber be in standard units but the shell weight in metric? I generally prefer metric, but for naval weapons it just seems better to have the caliber in standard units.
27 mm/1.06 inch gun: 0.25 kilogram shell
35 mm/1.38 inch gun: 0.50 kilogram shell
50 mm/1.97 inch gun: 1.50 kilogram shell
75 mm/2.95 inch gun: 5.00 kilogram shell
90 mm/3.54 inch gun: 8.00 kilogram shell
115 mm/4.53 inch gun: 16.00 kilogram shell
125 mm/4.92 inch gun: 24.00 kilogram shell
140 mm/5.51 inch gun: 32.00 kilogram shell
150 mm/5.91 inch gun: 40.00 kilogram shell
175 mm/6.89 inch gun: 64.00 kilogram shell
190 mm/7.48 inch gun: 80.00 kilogram shell
240 mm/9.45 inch gun: 164.00 kilogram shell
250 mm/9.84 inch gun: 185.00 kilogram shell
275 mm/10.83 inch gun: 245.00 kilogram shell
300 mm/11.81 inch gun: 320.00 kilogram shell
You'll just have to sim them all out- but everyone else is probably going to do that.
You need no precedent for Metric/Imperial units and their relations.
If your culture measures in feet/inches and grams/kilos... well, stuff happens.
'Overcharging' your guns to have flat trajectories isn't necessarily the best idea, but it can work.
Just remember, you have to use historic weapons as a guideline at least.
You can't overcharge too much beyond what actually existed.
Quote from: Carthaginian on May 31, 2012, 11:49:55 PM
You'll just have to sim them all out- but everyone else is probably going to do that.
You need no precedent for Metric/Imperial units and their relations.
If your culture measures in feet/inches and grams/kilos... well, stuff happens.
'Overcharging' your guns to have flat trajectories isn't necessarily the best idea, but it can work.
Just remember, you have to use historic weapons as a guideline at least.
You can't overcharge too much beyond what actually existed.
By overcharging I meant more having the same or a bit more powder for a lighter weight shell. The shells are about 15% to 20% lighter than what SpringSharp has as the standard size for guns of the calibers listed, so that should give more bang for the buck in the propellent department (at least for speed). I am taking somewhat of a similar approach to the Italians. Hopefully keeping the gunpower charges the same or only slightly increased will reduce some of the wear concerns.
Uhm... you can't really just figure things like that DF.
I have some knowledge of small-scale ballistics- generally rounds of .45 caliber and below.
Just because you make the bullet lighter and keep the powder charge the same doesn't automatically result in longer ranges... or even a bullet that will hit anything. You might wind up with a bullet that will be unstable in flight, fragment rather than penetrate, and have problems with ricochets.
Quote from: Carthaginian on June 01, 2012, 12:25:18 AM
Uhm... you can't really just figure things like that DF.
I have some knowledge of small-scale ballistics- generally rounds of .45 caliber and below.
Just because you make the bullet lighter and keep the powder charge the same doesn't automatically result in longer ranges... or even a bullet that will hit anything. You might wind up with a bullet that will be unstable in flight, fragment rather than penetrate, and have problems with ricochets.
I figured that ricochets and fragmentation might be issues due to the lower mass, but I did not really think that instability would be an issue. I know wind can impact ballistics of smaller bullets and other projectiles (quite visible when playing paintball on a windy day), but I did not think it was as large a factor at the scale of an artillery shell (in terms of a windy day causing shells to miss). Is this more of general advice for the future or should I revise the weights upwards for these particular pieces to ward off issues?
Quote from: Carthaginian on June 01, 2012, 12:25:18 AM
I have some knowledge of small-scale ballistics- generally rounds of .45 caliber and below.
Just because you make the bullet lighter and keep the powder charge the same doesn't automatically result in longer ranges... or even a bullet that will hit anything. You might wind up with a bullet that will be unstable in flight, fragment rather than penetrate, and have problems with ricochets.
That's probably true especially if the barrel rifleing/twist is fixed, but for our purpose anything that's within the proximity of (scaled) real cannons should be fine, right?
Delta Force, how do your proposed guns fare in my program? Especially the "density" and average pressure*?
*) of course that depends on the barrel length and I noticed that most of us seem to intend to use rather long ones, I'm just not sure if they are too long or not.
Quote from: Nobody on June 01, 2012, 02:23:51 AM
Quote from: Carthaginian on June 01, 2012, 12:25:18 AM
I have some knowledge of small-scale ballistics- generally rounds of .45 caliber and below.
Just because you make the bullet lighter and keep the powder charge the same doesn't automatically result in longer ranges... or even a bullet that will hit anything. You might wind up with a bullet that will be unstable in flight, fragment rather than penetrate, and have problems with ricochets.
That's probably true especially if the barrel rifleing/twist is fixed, but for our purpose anything that's within the proximity of (scaled) real cannons should be fine, right?
Delta Force, how do your proposed guns fare in my program? Especially the "density" and average pressure*?
*) of course that depends on the barrel length and I noticed that most of us seem to intend to use rather long ones, I'm just not sure if they are too long or not.
DF is talking about building rifles which- on the small scale that I am used to- would present a lot of the problems that British naval guns showed at Jutland: long-range accuracy problems, rounds that fragment rather than penetrate on direct strikes, rounds that ricochet rather than penetrate on more oblique angles.
We experience similar problems in the hand-loading world, and I have personally encountered them while learning how to build bullets. It can lead to some rather nasty problems with thick skinned game- I'd hat to know how those problems multiply when your target's 'skin' is face-hardened armor!
IMO, Choose a country:
Japan, USA, Germany... in Navweapons & use the historical guns & turrets.
That is simple & the mecanic is exact.
Jef ;)
I ran the program testing a real life 0.7 kilogram shell with 640 m/s velocity against my planned 0.5 kilogram shell with 760 m/s velocity (both 35 mm shells). The 0.7 kilogram shell had a much longer range and greater penetration at any realistic range compared to the 0.5 kilogram shell. It even had a higher velocity at the longer ranges. Both of them had the same kinetic energy at the start however.
I tested a SpringSharp recommended 0.6 kilogram shell and it beat both of them in penetration and range. Perhaps Springsharp knows best? I think that the issue may be down to shell density as opposed to a major issue with the concept of lighter/high velocity shells in general though, as the density was significantly lower on the 0.5 kilogram shell. The 0.5 kilogram shell might be too light for its size.
Quote from: Jefgte on June 01, 2012, 03:28:10 PM
IMO, Choose a country:
Japan, USA, Germany... in Navweapons & use the historical guns & turrets.
That is simple & the mecanic is exact.
Jef ;)
Yeah, I tried to get the calibers very close to historical ones and modify the shells. For example, the 90 mm is close to the German 88 mm, and the 115 mm is close the British 4.5 inch gun. I was trying to get clean increments for caliber and shell weight increases, but things are starting to look rather complex since no one country used really even a majority of these calibers.
Torpedo design studies:
350 mm/5.000 meter torpedo
Weight: 0.366 tons
Slow performance: 6,000 meters at 18 knots
Standard performance: 4,000 meters at 25 knots
Fast performance: 2,000 meters at 33 knots
This torpedo is more of a paper design. It is too slow and short ranged to be of practical usage, and even if the ships using it manage to hit the enemy ship it has a very small warhead compared to larger weapons. Depending on the ship deploying it, it might even have a slower standard speed than the ship deploying it.
400 mm/5.600 meter torpedo
Weight: 0.517 tons
Slow performance: 7,650 meters at 22 knots
Standard performance: 5,100 meters at 30 knots
Fast performance: 2,550 meters at 40 knots
Being somewhat more practical than the 350 mm torpedo, this may actually be used on a few very small torpedo boats.
450 mm/6.300 meter torpedo
Weight: 0.720 tons
Slow performance: 9,450 meters at 27 knots
Standard performance: 6,300 meters at 36 knots
Fast performance: 3,150 meters at 48 knots
The standard light weight torpedo of the navy, being one of the earliest designs perfected for military use on Earth. Used on the torpedo boats of the navy.
500 mm/7.00 meter torpedo
Weight: 0.972 tons
Slow performance: 10,500 meters at 27 knots
Standard performance: 7,000 meters at 37 knots
Fast performance: 3,500 meters at 49 knots
A more ahistoric torpedo size that was introduced around 3905. Used on some of the larger torpedo boats of the navy, as well as some of the smaller destroyers.
550 mm/7.700 meter torpedo
Weight: 1.281 tons
Slow performance: 12,300 meters at 31 knots
Standard performance: 8,200 meters at 42 knots
Fast performance: 4,100 meters at 56 knots
This will be the heavy torpedo of the navy, equipping larger ships such as cruisers and battleships. Will be seen on newer construction ships in the navy, entering service around 1911 historically.
600 mm/8.400 meter torpedo
Weight: 1.651 tons
Slow performance: 14,100 meters at 36 knots
Standard performance: 9,400 meters at 48 knots
Fast performance: 4,700 meters at 64 knots
A heavy torpedo for ships intended to use the torpedo as their primary weapon. Will start being specified for new construction shortly after game start and be intended for use in a role similar to that of the later Long Lance.
650 mm/9.100 meter torpedo
Weight: 2.089 tons
Slow performance: 15,150 meters at 36 knots
Standard performance: 10,100 meters at 49 knots
Fast performance: 5,050 meters at 65 knots
This super-heavy torpedo will serve as the primary armament of torpedo cruisers and battleships, ships designed to deliver torpedo broadsides in the line of battle. Such ships are intended to keep enemy ships farther away from the line of battle so my ships can take advantage of their "high velocity" artillery at longer ranges. Will enter service in 3915 as an armament on new torpedo cruisers and battleships, where it should still be able to compete against traditional naval artillery due to its long range.
You've got a couple of BIG fish there for the period: the 550mm, the 600mm, and the 650mm are all long for the period, and of course the 650mm's bigger than anything fielded up through the end of WWII (the Long Lance was a 610mm).
Quote from: KWorld on June 04, 2012, 07:54:01 AM
You've got a couple of BIG fish there for the period: the 550mm, the 600mm, and the 650mm are all long for the period, and of course the 650mm's bigger than anything fielded up through the end of WWII (the Long Lance was a 610mm).
Yea I thought the same.
Two related things I would like to mention
- the German J/9 - a 9 meter long 70 cm torpedo under development in 1917, as a result of the 'sudden' and 'unforeseeable' increased battle ranges
- a statement from the time, indicating that the torpedo size was originally only increased to overcome newly installed underwater protection systems (we we are not allowed to have on pre-start ships) and that bigger torpedos were only later demanded after they had been proven successful to increase range and speed so that they could be deployed from outside the range of (new) anti-TB weapons.
Delta - do remember that a torpedo isn't an instantaneous effect weapon.
It takes a L-O-N-G time to reach the target.
Your longest-ranged torpedoes will have virtually no chance of hitting- they will be spotted LONG before you get to the target.
Also, the torpedo rules are in the process of being handicapped- this is in a discussion from much earlier; there will be range and speed penalties for every year prior to 3930. KWorld rightly pointed out that my torps were over-performing for the period; I just haven't gotten the adjustments published.
Additionally, people have been advised to look toward historic examples for appropriate ideas.
This setting is not carte blanche; you must stay within the "realms of the realistic" when designing ships and weapon systems. Look at historic torpedoes and decide what you plan to build.
Quote from: Nobody on June 04, 2012, 08:34:30 AM
Quote from: KWorld on June 04, 2012, 07:54:01 AM
You've got a couple of BIG fish there for the period: the 550mm, the 600mm, and the 650mm are all long for the period, and of course the 650mm's bigger than anything fielded up through the end of WWII (the Long Lance was a 610mm).
Yea I thought the same.
Two related things I would like to mention
- the German J/9 - a 9 meter long 70 cm torpedo under development in 1917, as a result of the 'sudden' and 'unforeseeable' increased battle ranges
- a statement from the time, indicating that the torpedo size was originally only increased to overcome newly installed underwater protection systems (we we are not allowed to have on pre-start ships) and that bigger torpedos were only later demanded after they had been proven successful to increase range and speed so that they could be deployed from outside the range of (new) anti-TB weapons.
Yeah, the J9 was worked on to some degree, but never fielded, and no torpedo of similar size was ever completed and fielded after it.
As far as torpedo bulkheads go, we haven't, per se, banned them, just the strengthened bulkheads version that doesn't work in 3.3. Additional bulkheads are, as far as I know, still allowed.
Quote from: KWorld on June 04, 2012, 07:54:01 AM
You've got a couple of BIG fish there for the period: the 550mm, the 600mm, and the 650mm are all long for the period, and of course the 650mm's bigger than anything fielded up through the end of WWII (the Long Lance was a 610mm).
Those three torpedoes really represent future planning more than anything that will be in service on any ships at start. The 550 mm is going to be my navy's version of the 533 mm torpedo like the French did. The 533 mm torpedoes entered service around 1910-1911. The 600 mm is a heavy torpedo based on the German 60 cm H8, which started development in 1912 before the war. The 650 mm torpedo really has no historic analogue for this era (being found on some Soviet and Russian submarines of the modern era) but the Germans were considering much larger torpedoes towards the end of World War I, like the 70 cm J9.
Delta,
To prevent confusion- post only what you plan to build NOW.
Leave the future to the future.
I have a quick question about SpringSharp. I made a few torpedo boat designs that were all at 0.50 hull strength, but after I saved them, completed some more designs, and went back and loaded them again they were below 0.50 hull strength. Any ideas what might be causing this? They are only 100 tons at normal load so I think that perhaps some kind of number rounding might be doing this when loaded.
IIRC from earlyer conversations, it was discovered that while the weight for torpedoes was not added into the original sims but the weights do get added in when opening a save file. This could be the reason for the problem, tho rounding could do the same on such a small ship.
Here are some torpedo boat designs. The 1895, 1898, and 1902 models use the same hull. The 1898 model gains a small speed increase of half a knot from using newer triple expansion engines, while the 1902 model introduces oil firing.
The 1905 model introduces a new hull design and is powered by oil fired turbines. It also has a much heavier armament, replacing the old 50 mm gun with a 75 mm gun and adding four 35 mm secondary guns. The torpedoes are also increased in size to 450 mm and are given torpedo reloads. There is also some light armor for the 75 mm gun and the cockpit/bridge to defend against small arms fire.
I have never done any small combatant designs with SpringSharp before and it does not appear that there are any other torpedo boat designs up for this round yet, so any comments on these designs would be most appreciated.
Light Torpedo Boat Model 1895v2, Colonial Navy TB laid down 1895
Displacement:
96 t light; 99 t standard; 120 t normal; 137 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(164.04 ft / 164.04 ft) x 13.70 ft x (4.92 / 5.35 ft)
(50.00 m / 50.00 m) x 4.18 m x (1.50 / 1.63 m)
Armament:
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.85lbs / 1.75kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1895 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
Weight of broadside 4 lbs / 2 kg
Main Torpedoes
2 - 15.7" / 400 mm, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m torpedoes - 0.433 t each, 0.866 t total
In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 1,374 ihp / 1,025 Kw = 20.35 kts
Range 300nm at 20.35 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 38 tons (100% coal)
Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery
Complement:
17 - 23
Cost:
£0.013 million / $0.054 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2 tons, 1.5 %
- Guns: 1 tons, 0.6 %
- Weapons: 1 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 70 tons, 58.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 24 tons, 20.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 24 tons, 19.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
25 lbs / 11 Kg = 6.6 x 2.0 " / 50 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.69
Metacentric height 0.6 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 7.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.80
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.380 / 0.398
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.98 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m
- Average freeboard: 4.10 ft / 1.25 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 190.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 60.5 %
Waterplane Area: 1,365 Square feet or 127 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 26 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 11 lbs/sq ft or 55 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.51
- Longitudinal: 0.50
- Overall: 0.50
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather
Adjusted trial speed of 26 knots.
--------------------------------------------------
Light Torpedo Boat Model 1898v2, Colonial Navy TB laid down 1898
Displacement:
96 t light; 99 t standard; 120 t normal; 137 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(164.04 ft / 164.04 ft) x 13.70 ft x (4.92 / 5.36 ft)
(50.00 m / 50.00 m) x 4.18 m x (1.50 / 1.63 m)
Armament:
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.85lbs / 1.75kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1898 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
Weight of broadside 4 lbs / 2 kg
Main Torpedoes
2 - 15.7" / 400 mm, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m torpedoes - 0.481 t each, 0.963 t total
In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 1,501 ihp / 1,120 Kw = 20.80 kts
Range 300nm at 20.80 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 38 tons (100% coal)
Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery
Complement:
17 - 23
Cost:
£0.013 million / $0.054 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2 tons, 1.6 %
- Guns: 1 tons, 0.6 %
- Weapons: 1 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 71 tons, 58.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 23 tons, 19.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 24 tons, 20.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
25 lbs / 11 Kg = 6.5 x 2.0 " / 50 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.67
Metacentric height 0.6 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 7.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.76
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.380 / 0.399
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.98 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m
- Average freeboard: 4.10 ft / 1.25 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 191.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 60.5 %
Waterplane Area: 1,365 Square feet or 127 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 25 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 11 lbs/sq ft or 53 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 0.50
- Overall: 0.50
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather
Adjusted trial speed of 26.5 knots.
--------------------------------------------------
Light Torpedo Boat Model 1902v2, Colonial Navy TB laid down 1902
Displacement:
96 t light; 99 t standard; 120 t normal; 137 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(164.04 ft / 164.04 ft) x 13.70 ft x (4.92 / 5.35 ft)
(50.00 m / 50.00 m) x 4.18 m x (1.50 / 1.63 m)
Armament:
1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.85lbs / 1.75kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1902 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
Weight of broadside 4 lbs / 2 kg
Main Torpedoes
2 - 15.7" / 400 mm, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m torpedoes - 0.557 t each, 1.114 t total
In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 1,694 ihp / 1,264 Kw = 21.43 kts
Range 300nm at 21.43 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 38 tons (90% coal)
Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery
Complement:
17 - 23
Cost:
£0.014 million / $0.054 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2 tons, 1.8 %
- Guns: 1 tons, 0.6 %
- Weapons: 1 tons, 1.2 %
Machinery: 71 tons, 59.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 23 tons, 19.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 24 tons, 19.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
24 lbs / 11 Kg = 6.3 x 2.0 " / 50 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.60
Metacentric height 0.6 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 7.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.71
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.380 / 0.398
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.98 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 71
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m, 4.10 ft / 1.25 m
- Average freeboard: 4.10 ft / 1.25 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 192.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 60.5 %
Waterplane Area: 1,365 Square feet or 127 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 24 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 11 lbs/sq ft or 52 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 0.50
- Overall: 0.50
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather
Adjusted trial speed of 27.5 knots.
--------------------------------------------------
Light Torpedo Boat Model 1905v2, Colonial Navy TB laid down 1905
Displacement:
131 t light; 136 t standard; 160 t normal; 180 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(184.96 ft / 183.73 ft) x 15.31 ft x (5.25 / 5.65 ft)
(56.38 m / 56.00 m) x 4.67 m x (1.60 / 1.72 m)
Armament:
1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 11.02lbs / 5.00kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1905 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
4 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 300 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 15 lbs / 7 kg
Main Torpedoes
6 - 19.7" / 500 mm, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m torpedoes - 1.165 t each, 6.991 t total
In 2 sets of deck mounted reloads
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Conning towers: Forward 0.79" / 20 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2,351 shp / 1,754 Kw = 22.50 kts
Range 300nm at 22.50 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 44 tons
Complement:
22 - 29
Cost:
£0.018 million / $0.071 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 12 tons, 7.6 %
- Guns: 3 tons, 2.2 %
- Weapons: 9 tons, 5.5 %
Armour: 1 tons, 0.8 %
- Armament: 1 tons, 0.5 %
- Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 86 tons, 53.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 32 tons, 19.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 29 tons, 18.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
37 lbs / 17 Kg = 2.9 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.45
Metacentric height 0.6 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 8.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.71
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.380 / 0.396
Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 13.55 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m
- Average freeboard: 4.59 ft / 1.40 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 179.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 50.3 %
Waterplane Area: 1,708 Square feet or 159 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 44 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 12 lbs/sq ft or 61 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.51
- Longitudinal: 0.51
- Overall: 0.51
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather
Adjusted trial speed of 28 knots.
Before I really look at the designs, I note this.
Quote from: Carthaginian on April 08, 2012, 03:19:15 PM
2.) No Oil-fired ships; coal must make up 90% or more of the ship's bunkerage
Quote from: Delta Force on June 04, 2012, 07:04:28 PM
Here are some torpedo boat designs. The 1895, 1898, and 1902 models use the same hull. The 1898 model gains a small speed increase of half a knot from using newer triple expansion engines, while the 1902 model introduces oil firing.
The 1905 model introduces a new hull design and is powered by oil fired turbines. It also has a much heavier armament, replacing the old 50 mm gun with a 75 mm gun and adding four 35 mm secondary guns. The torpedoes are also increased in size to 450 mm and are given torpedo reloads. There is also some light armor for the 75 mm gun and the cockpit/bridge to defend against small arms fire.
I have never done any small combatant designs with SpringSharp before and it does not appear that there are any other torpedo boat designs up for this round yet, so any comments on these designs would be most appreciated.
Hmmmph. http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,5796.msg76023.html#msg76023 (http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,5796.msg76023.html#msg76023), last design posted for the Columbiad Republic.
The 1905 model modified to run 90% on coal. Major difference is a loss of 1.5 knots in speed, taking it down to 26.5 knots.
Light Torpedo Boat Model 1905v3, Colonial Navy TB laid down 1905
Displacement:
129 t light; 133 t standard; 160 t normal; 182 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(184.96 ft / 183.73 ft) x 15.31 ft x (5.25 / 5.70 ft)
(56.38 m / 56.00 m) x 4.67 m x (1.60 / 1.74 m)
Armament:
1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 11.02lbs / 5.00kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1905 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
4 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 300 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 15 lbs / 7 kg
Main Torpedoes
6 - 19.7" / 500 mm, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m torpedoes - 1.165 t each, 6.991 t total
In 2 sets of deck mounted reloads
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Conning towers: Forward 0.79" / 20 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 1,830 shp / 1,365 Kw = 21.15 kts
Range 300nm at 21.15 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 49 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
22 - 29
Cost:
£0.017 million / $0.069 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 12 tons, 7.6 %
- Guns: 3 tons, 2.2 %
- Weapons: 9 tons, 5.5 %
Armour: 1 tons, 0.8 %
- Armament: 1 tons, 0.5 %
- Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 84 tons, 52.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 31 tons, 19.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 32 tons, 19.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
38 lbs / 17 Kg = 3.0 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.46
Metacentric height 0.6 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 8.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.83
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.380 / 0.398
Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 13.55 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m, 4.59 ft / 1.40 m
- Average freeboard: 4.59 ft / 1.40 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 175.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 50.3 %
Waterplane Area: 1,708 Square feet or 159 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 51 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 12 lbs/sq ft or 60 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.51
- Longitudinal: 0.50
- Overall: 0.50
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather
Adjusted trial speed of 26.5 knots.
21.15kts in 1905.
Too slow
Quote from: Jefgte on June 05, 2012, 02:00:32 AM
21.15kts in 1905.
Too slow
The adjusted speed is 26.5 knots, although I think that that may be too slow as well. I'm not too sure how long ranged torpedo boats were, do you think I could cut some of the range and trade it for speed?
That depend the job assigned for the ship.
Harbor protection, patrols...
IMO, I think that that TB is realy too small to be efficient.
Too slow speed, too short range
Jef
Small TBs like this or my design are short-legged defensive weapons, really. Useful for defending a port city or a base, but of dubious utility in other roles.
Increase to 200t to have higher speed & range.
Jef
Quote from: KWorld on June 05, 2012, 11:21:58 AM
What rule are these, and my second class TBs, breaking? They seem to be legal by the current rules as written.
I'm NOT in favor of a requirement for +60% machinery, because it will fail miserably in later years as boilers and turbines become more efficient.
These specifically don't meet the >24 knotrequirement for 'Light, Fast Combatant' base speed in Springsharp; your light TB does not meet this requirement, either.
Thus, the designs cannot be built.Having a 60% machinery requirement is there to ensure that a proper amount of ship displacement is devoted to engine weight... to prevent people from building slow mini-ships to destroyer rules and overloading them with weaponry. There has to be some kind of limiting agent to ensure that the designs stay reasonable, and since the engine is the heaviest part of a small torpedo boat, that is why I chose it. I simmed multiple Japanese torpedo boats (among the earliest) and a couple of British and French ones (possibly the earliest) as well. The results consistently gave me a >60% engine weight.
Pull out a copy of Conway's and give it a go for yourself. It's pretty reliable.
I could see
possibly see lowering the weights required to 55% if a good case could be made... but nothing will really get me to go lower than that. Springsharp occasionally requires artificial 'corrections' because of it's flaws- we know this. Ensuring that engines take up an appropriate weight is just one of those.
Quote from: Walter on June 05, 2012, 11:30:47 AM
Quotetechnically, these carft can't be built at all under any conditions as things stand ATM.
I don't know about that. As I see it, the "Design Rules for Gentlemen... and Scoundrels" says we can... and so does "the Agreement upon Limitations for Naval Vessels"... so I am kind of confused by your words. :-\
Quoteit will fail miserably in later years as boilers and turbines become more efficient.
That is easily solved. Warp Speed, Mr. Sulu. ;D
Springsharp says you can't.
The rules say you can build the ships...
if you can get them to work in Springsharp. As I realize this is well nigh impossible, I wanted to add some looser requirements
specifically for these ships. Remember, Rule #1 says that we use Springsharp 3.0b3 to build ships; if you can't build it in Springsharp, then you can't build it. ;)
And yes, this will HOPEFULLY also allow us to build the extremely fast light TBs of later time periods... and can be adjusted later if need be.
Can this post be deleted to keep torpedo boat rules discussion to the thread for that (seeing as this post is already in the thread for that)? Don't want to clutter things up too much.
Quote from: CarthaginianWe'll leave it here, too... and a link to redirect. That way we will all know where to look in case we missed the split (like I just did). I will remove everything related that comes in here afterwards, though. Just let me know.
http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,5835.0.html (http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,5835.0.html)
My bad on that, work happend as I was fixing things up. ::)
About how much higher than the draught can freeboard get before it is just silly? I've realized that the freeboard needs to be higher on my torpedo boats to compensate for higher speeds from reducing coal for more machinery. That, and increasing the freeboard of the torpedo boats costs a very small amount of tonnage relative to the improvements gained in seaworthiness (sometimes it even increases hull strength).
Quote from: Delta Force on June 05, 2012, 06:33:47 PM
About how much higher than the draught can freeboard get before it is just silly? I've realized that the freeboard needs to be higher on my torpedo boats to compensate for higher speeds from reducing coal for more machinery. That, and increasing the freeboard of the torpedo boats costs a very small amount of tonnage relative to the improvements gained in seaworthiness (sometimes it even increases hull strength).
Have to point you to historic examples.
Look and guess- it's what we all do.
Any ideas on what to do with a few hundred extra kilograms (possibly even a few tons) worth of extra payload for my torpedo boats? I've gotten them as fast as they can get while still maintaining 0.50 cross-sectional strength. Should I devote it towards more ammunition or fuel, or is there anything better people can think of?
If you can trick the composite strength out of her, range is always the best thing.
Ammo... a torpedo boat isn't supposed to shoot.
Something to think about might be a thin- like 5mm or 0.25"- 'conning tower'; this would represent a spray shield for the helmsman and commander.
CRAP - I just noticed... you didn't include the tonnage for your torpedoes.
You'll need to account for those.
Quote from: Carthaginian on June 05, 2012, 09:43:45 PM
CRAP - I just noticed... you didn't include the tonnage for your torpedoes.
You'll need to account for those.
It just looks like there is nothing for the torpedoes because my light torpedo boats have only two rather small torpedoes in single shot launchers, so more would be useful for helping the torpedo boat to be a torpedo boat. A spray shield sounds nice too and it would help protect against small arms fire. Lots of good recommendations.
Quote from: Delta Force on June 06, 2012, 01:51:25 AM
It just looks like there is nothing for the torpedoes because my light torpedo boats have only two rather small torpedoes in single shot launchers, so more would be useful for helping the torpedo boat to be a torpedo boat. A spray shield sounds nice too and it would help protect against small arms fire. Lots of good recommendations.
NO.
There is no Miscellaneous Weight reserved for the torps.
Quote2 - 15.7" / 400 mm, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m torpedoes - 0.433 t each, 0.866 t total
In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
You should be reserving 1 ton for the torpedoes, but you are not.
That will have to be fixed.
It's in the "Design Rules for Gentlemen... and Scoundrels."
Quote1.) Torpedoes: for each torpedo, as laid out by Springsharp; this includes both torpedoes in the tube and reloads, whether above or below deck. Make sure weight allotted for reloads is allocated in the proper location!
Besides the lack of miscellaneous weight for all designs the 1905 TB is listed as only having six 19.7-inch reload torpedoes. Should this be two 19.7-inch fixed beam tubes and four reloads?
Actually, as long as you save and reload the design, the weight of torpedoes and tubes is correctly included.
Example (based on my second-class TB from yesterday) without torpedoes (only change from yesterday's post is to make the number of tubes 0):
TBS-08, Columbiad Republic Torpedo Boat, Second Class laid down 1908
Displacement:
99 t light; 102 t standard; 111 t normal; 118 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(123.75 ft / 123.03 ft) x 11.48 ft x (7.22 / 7.50 ft)
(37.72 m / 37.50 m) x 3.50 m x (2.20 / 2.29 m)
Armament:
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1908 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 0.43" / 11.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.04lbs / 0.02kg shells, 1,200 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 8 lbs / 4 kg
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3,179 shp / 2,371 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 130nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 15 tons (90% coal)
Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery
Complement:
16 - 22
Cost:
£0.013 million / $0.051 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2 tons, 1.8 %
- Guns: 2 tons, 1.8 %
Machinery: 63 tons, 56.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 34 tons, 31.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 12 tons, 10.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
25 lbs / 12 Kg = 6.7 x 2.0 " / 50 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.02
Metacentric height 0.2 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 10.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 47 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.76
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.380 / 0.388
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.71 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 11.09 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m
- Average freeboard: 6.16 ft / 1.88 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 187.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 44.6 %
Waterplane Area: 858 Square feet or 80 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 31 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 15 lbs/sq ft or 73 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.55
- Longitudinal: 5.31
- Overall: 0.69
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather
Note the hull strength: cross-sectional 0.55, overall 0.69.
Now, the ONLY change I'll make is to add 2 center-line rotating 450mm/6m torpedo tubes:
TBS-08, Columbiad Republic Torpedo Boat, Second Class laid down 1908
Displacement:
99 t light; 102 t standard; 111 t normal; 118 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(123.75 ft / 123.03 ft) x 11.48 ft x (7.22 / 7.50 ft)
(37.72 m / 37.50 m) x 3.50 m x (2.20 / 2.29 m)
Armament:
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1908 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 0.43" / 11.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.04lbs / 0.02kg shells, 1,200 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 8 lbs / 4 kg
Main Torpedoes
2 - 17.7" / 450 mm, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m torpedoes - 0.901 t each, 1.801 t total
In 1 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3,179 shp / 2,371 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 130nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 15 tons (90% coal)
Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery
Complement:
16 - 22
Cost:
£0.013 million / $0.051 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 6 tons, 5.1 %
- Guns: 2 tons, 1.8 %
- Weapons: 4 tons, 3.3 %
Machinery: 63 tons, 56.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 34 tons, 31.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 12 tons, 10.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
25 lbs / 12 Kg = 6.7 x 2.0 " / 50 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.02
Metacentric height 0.2 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 10.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 47 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.76
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.380 / 0.388
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.71 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 11.09 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m
- Average freeboard: 6.16 ft / 1.88 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 187.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 44.4 %
Waterplane Area: 858 Square feet or 80 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 31 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 15 lbs/sq ft or 73 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.55
- Longitudinal: 5.31
- Overall: 0.69
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather
No change, it hasn't been saved and reloaded. Here's the saved and reloaded version:
TBS-08, Columbiad Republic Torpedo Boat, Second Class laid down 1908
Displacement:
99 t light; 102 t standard; 111 t normal; 118 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(123.75 ft / 123.03 ft) x 11.48 ft x (7.22 / 7.50 ft)
(37.72 m / 37.50 m) x 3.50 m x (2.20 / 2.29 m)
Armament:
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1908 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 0.43" / 11.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.04lbs / 0.02kg shells, 1,200 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 8 lbs / 4 kg
Main Torpedoes
2 - 17.7" / 450 mm, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m torpedoes - 0.901 t each, 1.801 t total
In 1 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3,179 shp / 2,371 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 130nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 15 tons (90% coal)
Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery
Complement:
16 - 22
Cost:
£0.013 million / $0.051 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 6 tons, 5.1 %
- Guns: 2 tons, 1.8 %
- Weapons: 4 tons, 3.3 %
Machinery: 63 tons, 56.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 31 tons, 27.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 12 tons, 10.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
23 lbs / 11 Kg = 6.1 x 2.0 " / 50 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
Metacentric height 0.2 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 10.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 48 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.79
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.380 / 0.388
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.71 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 11.09 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m, 5.74 ft / 1.75 m
- Average freeboard: 6.16 ft / 1.88 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 187.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 44.4 %
Waterplane Area: 858 Square feet or 80 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 31 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 14 lbs/sq ft or 66 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 4.77
- Overall: 0.62
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather
Note the cross-sectional strength (0.50) and the overall strength: (0.62): they've now dropped to what they should be. There's clearly a flaw in SS 3b3 where it apparently only subtracts the weight of Weapons (have to check Mines) upon loading up a design, even though it calculates the weight and includes it in the design.
So, it looks like the answer is EITHER: add sufficient miscellaneous weight for your weapons AND don't reload the design once you're done with it; OR create your design, save it, and reload it. Either of these options will give you the correct results.
Just checked, SS 3b3 does the same thing with mines that it does with torps and DC/ASW. And SS3b3 includes more weight for rails and handling equipment than we need to by the rules.
My suggestion: we use SS3b3 as is but make sure you save and reload before posting for any design that includes Weapons (torps, mines, DC, etc). If we try to use miscellaneous weight, you can't include the weapons in the design, because if you ever tweak that design, SS will subtract the weight of those weapons again.
Too much work for me and I might forget it. I'll just stick to KISS and use miscellaneous weights. 8)
That will work, as long as you do the design all at one sitting and never reload it after saving. If you do reload it, you'll have double-weighted your Weapons.
Mines and DC/ASW I just don't fill into SS3 right now. I use miscellaneous weights only. For torpedoes, I had a higher number of torpedoes and miscellaneous weights, but after the last time when I reloaded it, I actually reduced the number of torpedoes to the number of tubes I have and rely on the miscellaneous weights for additional torpedoes in order to decrease the impact the torpedoes will have on the design's hull strength should there be a case when I have to reload the design.
My problem is that I'm an inveterate tinkerer: I come up with a design, get satisfied with it, save it, then take it up again to "improve" it in some way. That means that if I'm trying to use miscellaneous weight, I'll need to specify my Weapons in the Notes section, because I'll be double-weighting them a lot. It's not a big deal on cruisers and battleships, their torps won't normally be a major factor. With period-sized DDs, TBs, and minelayers, though..... the effects can be substantial. Extreme designs (like very small TBs, or heavily loaded specialist minelayers) will show it even more (I have a cruiser-minelayer, design's in the CR Fleet section that gains .25 strength from settling on using Weapons vs Misc. Weight, or .27 strength if I go the other way).
Carth and I are talking about the issue.
Ok, guys... here is the 'Mod' issue I have with the 'Save & Reload' tactic:
"Did he save and reload, or did he just SAY he did?"
If the Misc Weight is included, I KNOW that you have accounted for things.
If the Misc Weight is NOT included, I have no way of knowing short of simming the ship myself... and I don't have that kind of time. So that means that I no longer have to just look at things and see if the make sense, I have to sim each and every design- possibly making the changes in exactly the same order that you did- to see if the design works. That is A LOT of moderating, guys- a whole damn pisspot full.
So, we have an honor issue coming into play here and we ALL have to make a decision. This isn't a decision for moderators only; that's for damn sure. This is something that will effect the entire community in a very powerful way. So, I'm not going to think up an answer to this question... I am, instead, going to draw up an appropriate sentencing guideline for cheating (and Hammurabi will be proud, wherever he is). Then, the forum as a whole can vote on the issue- pick your poison, Proof or Trust.
Snip and I will work out what we feel is appropriate for punishment.
Ya'll work out in your heads whether Trust or Proof is the foundation of this version of N-verse.
Then, everyone here will- mods included- will vote on the issue... one vote to the man, as this isn't a 'Fighting, Chasing or Being Chased' kind of issue. This vote will have massive impact on how the sim is run as well: it's going to show me the kind of 'tone' people want the sim to take.
So, consider your position on this one very, very hard.
Do ships come with enough lifeboats for their crew (for ships where it would make sense, like BBs) or do we have to assign weights for them?
QuoteDo ships come with enough lifeboats for their crew (for ships where it would make sense, like BBs) or do we have to assign weights for them?
...assign weights for them
look at a, b & c
"
Miscellaneous Weights shall be required as follows:
1.) Torpedoes: for each torpedo, as laid out by Springsharp; this includes both torpedoes in the tube and reloads, whether above or below deck. Make sure weight allotted for reloads is allocated in the proper location!
2.) Mines: for each mine, as laid out in the Mine Rules section (small = 500 lbs, medium = 1000 lbs, heavy = 1500 lbs). Minelaying equipment is 1 ton per 10 mines, and minesweeping gear is 10 tons per 1000 tons of ship displacement (min. 10 tons).
3.) Embarked Personnel: any personnel over the Crew Requirement as stated by Springsharp will be accounted for with 4 tons per person for long-term deployment . For vessels like landing craft, there will be 1 ton per 4 combat-ready troops.
4.) Extra Ship's Boats: extra small craft may be carried on a ship to facilitate landings or passenger transfers. 'Lifeboats' are assumed to be equipped with the following items: a sail and mast, 1/2 gallon of water per person for 2 days, 2 days survival rations (think 'jerky and hardtack') per person, a compass, a sextant, a lantern, a bailer, a sea anchor, 100' of rope and a pair of oars for every 10' of length. A 'Steam Launch' contains all the items of a lifeboat and enough coal to travel 25 nautical miles.
(a) Large lifeboats, which may accommodate 50 people (in fair weather) are 2 tons each and 60' long.
(b) Small lifeboats, which may accommodate 24 people (in fair weather) are 1 tons each and 30' long.
(c) Steam launches, which may accommodate 30 people (in fair weather) are 3 tons each and 60' long.
"
Only if they are over normal compliment. Ships fittings are presumed to carry boats for the listed crew numbers. That section of the rules is with regard to boats outside of that, such as landing craft.
Here is a coastal battleship. It is a very close copy of the Austro-Hungarian Monarch class, although with slightly different dimensions and with an altered armor configuration.
1895 Coastal Battleship, Colonial Navy BBL laid down 1895
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w289/ubermatt3/sms_wien_model-1.jpg)
Displacement:
5,416 t light; 5,651 t standard; 6,000 t normal; 6,280 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(328.08 ft / 328.08 ft) x 56.59 ft x (20.57 / 21.32 ft)
(100.00 m / 100.00 m) x 17.25 m x (6.27 / 6.50 m)
Armament:
4 - 9.45" / 240 mm 40.0 cal guns - 363.76lbs / 165.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
14 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
14 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
14 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2,038 lbs / 924 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 213.25 ft / 65.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: 4.72" / 120 mm 114.83 ft / 35.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 6.30" / 160 mm 9.45" / 240 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.45" / 240 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5,395 ihp / 4,024 Kw = 16.00 kts
Range 2,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 630 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
340 - 443
Cost:
£0.480 million / $1.920 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 409 tons, 6.8 %
- Guns: 409 tons, 6.8 %
Armour: 2,456 tons, 40.9 %
- Belts: 1,545 tons, 25.8 %
- Armament: 368 tons, 6.1 %
- Armour Deck: 476 tons, 7.9 %
- Conning Tower: 67 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 914 tons, 15.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,637 tons, 27.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 585 tons, 9.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
7,238 lbs / 3,283 Kg = 17.2 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 13.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.33
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.555
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.11 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 71.5 %
Waterplane Area: 12,958 Square feet or 1,204 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 101 lbs/sq ft or 493 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.67
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Edit: Added picture.
If you want to increase the speed to 18kts, to work with the BBs, change the category from CBB to AC.
Jef ;)
Quote from: Jefgte on June 08, 2012, 05:20:07 PM
If you want to increase the speed to 18kts, to work with the BBs, change the category from CBB to AC.
Jef ;)
Pre-dreadnoughts were rather slow, so it could actually fit in rather well with its contemporaries even at only 16 knots. My battleships of 1895 to 1900 are going to be based on the Kaiser Frederich III class of the Imperial German Navy, and those only got up to 17.5 knots.
On a related note, does anyone have any detailed information regarding the armor and location of the 8.8 cm casemate guns on the Kaiser Frederich III class pre-dreadnoughts? I've tried all my usual sources and have drawn a blank on that.
Edit: Actually, finding information about the location of smaller secondaries is proving to be very difficult. Any advice on where to go for information, or a general "rule of thumb" that can used when dealing with them?
Here's a link to a site with a decent picture of that ship: http://www.german-navy.de/hochseeflotte/ships/battleships/kaiserfriedrich/index.html (http://www.german-navy.de/hochseeflotte/ships/battleships/kaiserfriedrich/index.html) In general, smaller secondaries were either higher up in the ship, or further out on the ends, but there were exceptions to that rule. Some countries mounted small secondaries atop turrets, others didn't.
I simmed my Kaiser Frederich III clone (with 10" guns instead of 9.4" guns) like this:
http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,5828.msg75974.html#msg75974
Odd thing is that Jane's indicates on the sideview picture that the 4 forward 8.8cm guns are in casemates and the rest are deck mounts but the topview picture shows them all to be deck mounts. The german navy link above also indicates that all those guns are in deck mounts. According to Jane's, there should also be twelve 1 pdr guns aboard the Kaiser Frederich III, but I have no idea where they are located.
So when would you say that the 9.4 inch gun is too weak for use on battleship construction as a primary/secondary armament? It seems to have a major rate of fire advantage until around 1905 or so and the armor penetration seems adequate for the type and thickness of armor is it going up against on battleships until around 1900. Might it be worth retaining as a secondary on semi-dreadnoughts (as opposed to the 10 inch) due to its higher rates of fire and good all around abilities against lighter ship types? I do not know as much about how pre-dreadnoughts worked in practice with the secondaries (I know a lot of theories that people had in the contemporary period on how people thought they should work), should the focus be on rate of fire and adequate penetration or on being able throw out a few heavy shells able to cause more serious damage to heavily armored ships?
A copy of the Kaiser Friedrich III class battleship, featuring minor design changes as with the Monarch class copy.
1895 Battleship, Colonial Navy BB laid down 1895
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w289/ubermatt3/pre-dreadnought-sms-kaiser-barbarossa-1.jpg)
Displacement:
9,752 t light; 10,210 t standard; 10,800 t normal; 11,273 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(410.11 ft / 410.11 ft) x 66.93 ft x (25.92 / 26.80 ft)
(125.00 m / 125.00 m) x 20.40 m x (7.90 / 8.17 m)
Armament:
4 - 9.45" / 240 mm 40.0 cal guns - 363.76lbs / 165.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1895 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
10 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
9 raised mounts
14 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 35.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
14 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
14 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,298 lbs / 1,496 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 265.75 ft / 81.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 144.36 ft / 44.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 6.30" / 160 mm 9.45" / 240 mm
2nd: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
3rd: 5.91" / 150 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.56" / 65 mm
Forecastle: 2.56" / 65 mm Quarter deck: 2.56" / 65 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 11,234 ihp / 8,381 Kw = 18.00 kts
Range 2,400nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,063 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
529 - 688
Cost:
£0.845 million / $3.379 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 627 tons, 5.8 %
- Guns: 627 tons, 5.8 %
Armour: 4,261 tons, 39.5 %
- Belts: 2,588 tons, 24.0 %
- Armament: 672 tons, 6.2 %
- Armour Deck: 898 tons, 8.3 %
- Conning Tower: 104 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 1,904 tons, 17.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,959 tons, 27.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,049 tons, 9.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
13,069 lbs / 5,928 Kg = 31.0 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 13.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.50
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.531 / 0.536
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.13 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94.1 %
Waterplane Area: 18,825 Square feet or 1,749 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 118 lbs/sq ft or 576 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.90
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
A Braunschweig class copy that for once manages to come in under the historical tonnage even with a higher speed and more coal.
1901 Battleship, Colonial Navy BB laid down 1901
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w289/ubermatt3/Braunschweig_003-1.jpg)
Displacement:
12,184 t light; 12,770 t standard; 13,800 t normal; 14,623 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(418.96 ft / 418.96 ft) x 72.83 ft x (26.57 / 27.87 ft)
(127.70 m / 127.70 m) x 22.20 m x (8.10 / 8.50 m)
Armament:
4 - 11.02" / 280 mm 40.0 cal guns - 551.16lbs / 250.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1901 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1901 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1901 Model
10 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
14 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1901 Model
14 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
14 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,871 lbs / 1,756 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.66" / 220 mm 271.00 ft / 82.60 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 147.64 ft / 45.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Upper: 4.92" / 125 mm 271.00 ft / 82.60 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 11.0" / 280 mm
2nd: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
3rd: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
4th: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 2.95" / 75 mm Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 11.81" / 300 mm, Aft 5.91" / 150 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 16,392 ihp / 12,229 Kw = 19.00 kts
Range 4,100nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,853 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
636 - 827
Cost:
£1.080 million / $4.321 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 682 tons, 4.9 %
- Guns: 682 tons, 4.9 %
Armour: 5,329 tons, 38.6 %
- Belts: 3,041 tons, 22.0 %
- Armament: 844 tons, 6.1 %
- Armour Deck: 1,224 tons, 8.9 %
- Conning Towers: 220 tons, 1.6 %
Machinery: 2,522 tons, 18.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,652 tons, 26.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,616 tons, 11.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17,856 lbs / 8,099 Kg = 26.7 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 13.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.69
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.596 / 0.602
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.75 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Average freeboard: 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.1 %
Waterplane Area: 22,227 Square feet or 2,065 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 120 lbs/sq ft or 584 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.33
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
The downside of using the 24cm gun as a battleship gun is shown pretty clearly by the penetration chart on Navweaps for the German 24cm/40 - It's fine against iron armor, but by 1895 everyone's using Harvey armor or Krupp armor, with Krupp cemented armor following closely behind that. Hard to tell exactly how your gun will match up (given lack of muzzle velocity data for the Austro-Hungarian Monarch-class and different shell weights), but against your own armor thickness, you'll need to get to ranges shorter than those used at the Battle of the Yellow Sea to penetrate (of course, to be fair, the ranges at Yellow Sea and Tsushima were longer than expected by the ship designers) Harvey armor, let alone Krupp or Krupp cemented. As a secondary gun, I don't know that there's any great difference between the 9.2", the 240mm, or the 10" (or the CRN's 250mm).
The Braunshweig-clone is, perhaps, a bit lightly belted. Also, I doubt she carries 14 centerline casemates, of any sort.... (same comment applies to the Fredrich III clone).
Also, on both these designs, you'll probably want to add some lighter, high ROF guns (not so much for shooting at TBs as at nasty flying things).
Quote from: KWorld on June 13, 2012, 01:13:15 PM
The downside of using the 24cm gun as a battleship gun is shown pretty clearly by the penetration chart on Navweaps for the German 24cm/40 - It's fine against iron armor, but by 1895 everyone's using Harvey armor or Krupp armor, with Krupp cemented armor following closely behind that. Hard to tell exactly how your gun will match up (given lack of muzzle velocity data for the Austro-Hungarian Monarch-class and different shell weights), but against your own armor thickness, you'll need to get to ranges shorter than those used at the Battle of the Yellow Sea to penetrate (of course, to be fair, the ranges at Yellow Sea and Tsushima were longer than expected by the ship designers) Harvey armor, let alone Krupp or Krupp cemented. As a secondary gun, I don't know that there's any great difference between the 9.2", the 240mm, or the 10" (or the CRN's 250mm).
The Braunshweig-clone is, perhaps, a bit lightly belted. Also, I doubt she carries 14 centerline casemates, of any sort.... (same comment applies to the Fredrich III clone).
Also, on both these designs, you'll probably want to add some lighter, high ROF guns (not so much for shooting at TBs as at nasty flying things).
They are deck level casemates clustered around the central citadel. The German pre-dreadnoughts carried a lot of secondaries in the citadel. How are those simmed?
Braunschweig, from the image here http://www.german-navy.de/hochseeflotte/ships/battleships/braunschweig/index.html (http://www.german-navy.de/hochseeflotte/ships/battleships/braunschweig/index.html), carried her 88mms either high on the sides and in deck mounts (I see a single casemate in the front superstructure) or below deck level casemates on the ends of the ship. So, if I were making a copy of her, I'd sim those as the 3rd and 4th batteries (one for the casemates and one for the deck mounts), with the mounts on the sides rather than the centerline.
In the case of Kaiser Fredrich, from the image here http://www.german-navy.de/hochseeflotte/ships/battleships/kaiserfriedrich/index.html (http://www.german-navy.de/hochseeflotte/ships/battleships/kaiserfriedrich/index.html), all of her 88mm mounts are upper citadel deck mounts, so I'd sim them as side-mounted upper deck mounts.
I am breaking up the secondaries on my Braunschweig design and there are going to be two groupings for the 6 inch and 3.5 inch guns, but I want to also add four 37 mm guns atop the turrets for shooting at flying creatures. How would a sixth battery be handled?
Quote from: Delta Force on June 14, 2012, 11:23:22 PM
I am breaking up the secondaries on my Braunschweig design and there are going to be two groupings for the 6 inch and 3.5 inch guns, but I want to also add four 37 mm guns atop the turrets for shooting at flying creatures. How would a sixth battery be handled?
As long as you use the same mount type, SpringSharp3 supports 2 groups per battery.
Quote from: Nobody on June 15, 2012, 01:21:43 AM
Quote from: Delta Force on June 14, 2012, 11:23:22 PM
I am breaking up the secondaries on my Braunschweig design and there are going to be two groupings for the 6 inch and 3.5 inch guns, but I want to also add four 37 mm guns atop the turrets for shooting at flying creatures. How would a sixth battery be handled?
As long as you use the same mount type, SpringSharp3 supports 2 groups per battery.
That would be the issue, they are all various types. I have the main armament, turreted 6 inch guns, casemated 6 inch guns, casemated 3.5 inch guns, and 3.5 inch deck guns. 37 mm deck guns would be the sixth battery.
While I do not have Springsharp around here at work, I believe that if you were to use deckmounts and then set x guns as being below the main deck, then you can have a mix of deck mounts and casemate guns with one entry, although I would have to mess around with it to see if there are any differences...
It appears to work out as the same, even though the armor weight shown is 1/3 lighter for the casemate vs the deck mount. The total tonnage in the distribution of weight is the same.
The alternatives that I can see are to either ditch one battery (the casemated 3.5" guns would be my choice) and add the 37mms, or to get the weight of the 37mms and add them as miscellaneous weight.
Since I have rather tall main belts anyways (5 meters, two decks), would shortening my end belts be okay (2.5 meters, one deck)? I think my main belts might actually be taller than the freeboard on some of my ships too.
Quote from: Delta Force on June 16, 2012, 01:30:02 AM
Since I have rather tall main belts anyways (5 meters, two decks), would shortening my end belts be okay (2.5 meters, one deck)? I think my main belts might actually be taller than the freeboard on some of my ships too.
LOL I didn't notice before, but both your upper and main belt are 5m broad! Since you have 5.5m freeboard (quite a lot for a ship from this time btw) that means you hull is only protected by the upper belt and you main belt is almost entirely underwater. I would probably choose 2.5m upper and 4m main belt for this freeboard.
Quote from: Nobody on June 16, 2012, 01:56:37 AM
Quote from: Delta Force on June 16, 2012, 01:30:02 AM
Since I have rather tall main belts anyways (5 meters, two decks), would shortening my end belts be okay (2.5 meters, one deck)? I think my main belts might actually be taller than the freeboard on some of my ships too.
LOL I didn't notice before, but both your upper and main belt are 5m broad! Since you have 5.5m freeboard (quite a lot for a ship from this time btw) that means you hull is only protected by the upper belt and you main belt is almost entirely underwater. I would probably choose 2.5m upper and 4m main belt for this freeboard.
I forgot that these ships are smaller than those of the 1920s and later, so my habits for those ships carried over. What's a good rule of thumb for belt height relative to freeboard since 5 meters is probably going to be too big?
IMO
With 5m freeboard,
Upper belt is 2.5m height - one deck & main, belt 3.75m - 0.5 deck under WL .
Jef
1895 Coastal Battleshipv2, Colonial Navy BB laid down 1895
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w289/ubermatt3/sms_wien_model-1.jpg)
Displacement:
5,192 t light; 5,425 t standard; 5,830 t normal; 6,155 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(328.08 ft / 328.08 ft) x 56.59 ft x (20.57 / 21.45 ft)
(100.00 m / 100.00 m) x 17.25 m x (6.27 / 6.54 m)
Armament:
4 - 9.45" / 240 mm 40.0 cal guns - 363.76lbs / 165.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
14 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
14 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
14 raised mounts
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2,043 lbs / 927 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.45" / 240 mm 212.27 ft / 64.70 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ends: 4.92" / 125 mm 115.81 ft / 35.30 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 9.45" / 240 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.45" / 240 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 5,276 ihp / 3,936 Kw = 16.00 kts
Range 2,400nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 730 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
333 - 433
Cost:
£0.469 million / $1.877 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 408 tons, 7.0 %
- Guns: 408 tons, 7.0 %
Armour: 2,271 tons, 39.0 %
- Belts: 1,344 tons, 23.1 %
- Armament: 392 tons, 6.7 %
- Armour Deck: 469 tons, 8.0 %
- Conning Tower: 66 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 894 tons, 15.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,618 tons, 27.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 638 tons, 10.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,897 lbs / 3,128 Kg = 16.4 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 13.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.26
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.534 / 0.541
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.11 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 71.9 %
Waterplane Area: 12,771 Square feet or 1,186 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 101 lbs/sq ft or 494 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.73
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Edit: Changed to triple shaft design like the others, providing a redundant shaft for safety. Picture added.
1895 Battleshipv2, Colonial Navy BB laid down 1895
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w289/ubermatt3/pre-dreadnought-sms-kaiser-barbarossa-1.jpg)
Displacement:
8,539 t light; 8,945 t standard; 10,020 t normal; 10,879 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(410.11 ft / 410.11 ft) x 66.93 ft x (25.92 / 27.57 ft)
(125.00 m / 125.00 m) x 20.40 m x (7.90 / 8.40 m)
Armament:
4 - 9.45" / 240 mm 40.0 cal guns - 363.76lbs / 165.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1895 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
12 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
12 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
12 raised mounts
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2,959 lbs / 1,342 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 265.26 ft / 80.85 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ends: 4.92" / 125 mm 144.85 ft / 44.15 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 9.45" / 240 mm
2nd: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
3rd: 5.91" / 150 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.45" / 240 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 10,619 ihp / 7,922 Kw = 18.00 kts
Range 4,800nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,934 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
499 - 650
Cost:
£0.780 million / $3.119 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 602 tons, 6.0 %
- Guns: 602 tons, 6.0 %
Armour: 3,294 tons, 32.9 %
- Belts: 1,885 tons, 18.8 %
- Armament: 647 tons, 6.5 %
- Armour Deck: 667 tons, 6.7 %
- Conning Tower: 95 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,800 tons, 18.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,843 tons, 28.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,480 tons, 14.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12,334 lbs / 5,595 Kg = 29.2 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 13.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.33
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.52
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.493 / 0.503
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.13 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 96.3 %
Waterplane Area: 18,171 Square feet or 1,688 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 116 lbs/sq ft or 568 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.97
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Edit: Picture added.
1901 Battleship Heavy Secondary, Colonial Navy BB laid down 1901
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w289/ubermatt3/Braunschweig_003-1.jpg)
Displacement:
11,247 t light; 11,834 t standard; 12,980 t normal; 13,896 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(418.96 ft / 418.96 ft) x 72.83 ft x (26.57 / 28.07 ft)
(127.70 m / 127.70 m) x 22.20 m x (8.10 / 8.55 m)
Armament:
4 - 11.02" / 280 mm 40.0 cal guns - 551.16lbs / 250.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1901 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 9.45" / 240 mm 40.0 cal guns - 363.76lbs / 165.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1901 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1901 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
6 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1901 Model
6 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1901 Model
8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 4,850 lbs / 2,200 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 271.00 ft / 82.60 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ends: 4.92" / 125 mm 147.93 ft / 45.09 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Upper: 5.91" / 150 mm 271.00 ft / 82.60 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 9.45" / 240 mm
2nd: 9.45" / 240 mm 4.92" / 125 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
3rd: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 2.95" / 75 mm Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 11.81" / 300 mm, Aft 5.91" / 150 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 12,674 ihp / 9,455 Kw = 18.00 kts
Range 4,800nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,061 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
607 - 790
Cost:
£1.069 million / $4.275 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 960 tons, 7.4 %
- Guns: 960 tons, 7.4 %
Armour: 4,810 tons, 37.1 %
- Belts: 2,534 tons, 19.5 %
- Armament: 880 tons, 6.8 %
- Armour Deck: 1,184 tons, 9.1 %
- Conning Towers: 211 tons, 1.6 %
Machinery: 1,950 tons, 15.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,520 tons, 27.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,733 tons, 13.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 7 tons, 0.1 %
- Above deck: 7 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17,011 lbs / 7,716 Kg = 25.4 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.33
Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 13.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.78
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.560 / 0.568
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.75 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 110.7 %
Waterplane Area: 21,501 Square feet or 1,997 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 126 lbs/sq ft or 614 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.29
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
7 ton miscellaneous weight includes four 37 mm guns (1 ton total) with 20 mm shields (5 tons) and 500 0.50 kg rounds per gun (1 ton). Both main gun turrets have two guns atop them.
Edit: Picture added.
This is a Radetzky inspired design.
1905 Battleship, Colonial Navy BB laid down 1905
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w289/ubermatt3/sms_erz_ff_colorcard-1.jpg)
Displacement:
12,214 t light; 12,762 t standard; 13,840 t normal; 14,702 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(451.12 ft / 451.12 ft) x 80.71 ft x (26.57 / 27.82 ft)
(137.50 m / 137.50 m) x 24.60 m x (8.10 / 8.48 m)
Armament:
4 - 11.02" / 280 mm 40.0 cal guns - 551.16lbs / 250.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 9.45" / 240 mm 40.0 cal guns - 363.76lbs / 165.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
14 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
14 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,428 lbs / 2,462 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 291.99 ft / 89.00 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ends: 4.92" / 125 mm 159.12 ft / 48.50 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 9.45" / 240 mm
2nd: 9.45" / 240 mm 4.92" / 125 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
3rd: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 2.95" / 75 mm Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 12,748 ihp / 9,510 Kw = 18.00 kts
Range 4,800nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,940 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
637 - 829
Cost:
£1.179 million / $4.716 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,098 tons, 7.9 %
- Guns: 1,098 tons, 7.9 %
Armour: 4,890 tons, 35.3 %
- Belts: 2,100 tons, 15.2 %
- Armament: 1,331 tons, 9.6 %
- Armour Deck: 1,337 tons, 9.7 %
- Conning Tower: 122 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,829 tons, 13.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,396 tons, 31.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,626 tons, 11.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
18,996 lbs / 8,616 Kg = 28.4 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.65
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.501 / 0.508
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.59 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.24 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119.1 %
Waterplane Area: 24,272 Square feet or 2,255 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 141 lbs/sq ft or 691 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.14
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Edit: 37 mm guns added, I accidentally forgot to add them to this design. Picture added.
These battleships seem to be several thousand tons smaller than those of other navies. Are there any glaring design flaws with them that I haven't noticed, or are these good as far as economical designs go?
A Furst Bismarck inspired design.
1897 Heavy Cruiserv3, Colonial Navy CA laid down 1897
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w289/ubermatt3/sms_furst_bismarck_hgraf-1.jpg)
Displacement:
8,199 t light; 8,579 t standard; 9,720 t normal; 10,633 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(416.67 ft / 416.67 ft) x 66.93 ft x (25.59 / 27.35 ft)
(127.00 m / 127.00 m) x 20.40 m x (7.80 / 8.34 m)
Armament:
4 - 9.45" / 240 mm 40.0 cal guns - 363.76lbs / 165.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1897 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
12 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1897 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
4 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1897 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
6 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
6 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2,738 lbs / 1,242 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 271.98 ft / 82.90 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 144.69 ft / 44.10 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 6.89" / 175 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm - -
3rd: 3.94" / 100 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 15,387 ihp / 11,479 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 5,400nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,054 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
489 - 636
Cost:
£0.834 million / $3.336 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 509 tons, 5.2 %
- Guns: 509 tons, 5.2 %
Armour: 2,547 tons, 26.2 %
- Belts: 1,400 tons, 14.4 %
- Armament: 402 tons, 4.1 %
- Armour Deck: 668 tons, 6.9 %
- Conning Tower: 77 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 2,522 tons, 26.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,621 tons, 27.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,520 tons, 15.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9,509 lbs / 4,313 Kg = 22.5 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.51
Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 12.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.44
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.477 / 0.488
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.23 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.41 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93.0 %
Waterplane Area: 18,197 Square feet or 1,691 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 107 lbs/sq ft or 524 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.83
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Edit: I decided to reduce coal reserves to be sufficient for 3 days of steaming at full power instead of 4. It would be hard for a ship using triple expansion engines to sustain such a speed, and my cruisers were becoming quite large from the demands of carrying that much coal. I also changed the freeboard to make it flat decked. Picture added.
I am trying to choose between this large armored cruiser design and a semi-dreadnought battlecruiser design to determine the direction my heavy cruisers will go for 1905 and later. You can see both of the designs I am looking at in this post.
1905 Large Armored Cruiser, Colonial Navy CA laid down 1905
Displacement:
12,363 t light; 12,825 t standard; 14,400 t normal; 15,661 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(524.93 ft / 524.93 ft) x 74.80 ft x (26.57 / 28.29 ft)
(160.00 m / 160.00 m) x 22.80 m x (8.10 / 8.62 m)
Armament:
8 - 9.45" / 240 mm 40.0 cal guns - 363.76lbs / 165.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
14 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
14 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,223 lbs / 1,462 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.45" / 240 mm 349.57 ft / 106.55 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 175.36 ft / 53.45 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 6.89" / 175 mm
3rd: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 26,136 ihp / 19,497 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 6,900nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,836 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
656 - 854
Cost:
£1.240 million / $4.960 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 684 tons, 4.7 %
- Guns: 684 tons, 4.7 %
Armour: 3,779 tons, 26.2 %
- Belts: 2,039 tons, 14.2 %
- Armament: 694 tons, 4.8 %
- Armour Deck: 946 tons, 6.6 %
- Conning Tower: 100 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,750 tons, 26.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,150 tons, 28.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,037 tons, 14.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,849 lbs / 6,735 Kg = 35.2 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.40
Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 13.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.27
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.54
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.483 / 0.493
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.02 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.91 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.7 %
Waterplane Area: 25,765 Square feet or 2,394 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 118 lbs/sq ft or 574 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.48
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
1905 Battlecruiser, Colonial Navy CC laid down 1905
Displacement:
15,098 t light; 15,719 t standard; 17,500 t normal; 18,924 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(557.74 ft / 557.74 ft) x 78.74 ft x (27.97 / 29.68 ft)
(170.00 m / 170.00 m) x 24.00 m x (8.53 / 9.04 m)
Armament:
4 - 11.02" / 280 mm 40.0 cal guns - 551.16lbs / 250.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 9.45" / 240 mm 40.0 cal guns - 363.76lbs / 165.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
14 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
14 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,428 lbs / 2,462 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.45" / 240 mm 372.87 ft / 113.65 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 184.88 ft / 56.35 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.45" / 240 mm 4.92" / 125 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 7.87" / 200 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 6.89" / 175 mm
3rd: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 29,071 ihp / 21,687 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 6,900nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,205 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
759 - 988
Cost:
£1.608 million / $6.432 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,098 tons, 6.3 %
- Guns: 1,098 tons, 6.3 %
Armour: 4,490 tons, 25.7 %
- Belts: 2,169 tons, 12.4 %
- Armament: 1,134 tons, 6.5 %
- Armour Deck: 1,073 tons, 6.1 %
- Conning Tower: 114 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 4,172 tons, 23.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,338 tons, 30.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,402 tons, 13.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
16,643 lbs / 7,549 Kg = 24.8 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.42
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.499 / 0.508
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.08 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.3 %
Waterplane Area: 29,225 Square feet or 2,715 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 136 lbs/sq ft or 666 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.44
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
8 heavy guns in turrets is no-go, AFAIK. This applies to both ships.
Just 6 main guns in turrets max on all ships, but, you could increase secondary caliber
NF ACs:
1903-AC1-11250t-6T1x240+8x140+8x100+8x47-21kts-B170
1906-AC2-14850t-3T2x240+8x164+12x100+8x47-23kts-B170
1907-AC3-15000t-3T2x240+10x164+12x100+8x47-25kts-B200
Jef
8 turreted main guns is legal as long as no more than 6 of them can bear on any point, so as long as these are wing turrets not en echelon. I think it's legal by the rules.
"centerline casemates" would be firing fore-and-aft, not to the sides, so first I doubt there's room for 14 of them, and I also doubt that that's how you want them arranged.
Quote from: Nobody on June 18, 2012, 01:29:02 AM
8 heavy guns in turrets is no-go, AFAIK. This applies to both ships.
The same issue popped up with Walter's semi-dreadnoughts earlier and Carthaginian said that semi-dreadnoughts are legal, specifying that the limit applies only to main gun armament. You could have up to eight uniform guns on a ship in turrets and still be within the rules as long as they are divided between one fore, one aft, one starboard, and one port turret, if all of them are twins and the wing turrets are separated by the superstructure.
Quoteone fore, one aft, one starboard, and one port turret
Actually, you can have two port and two starboard turrets...
... as long as they only house one gun...
... unless you got a single forward and single aft, in which case they can be twins. :)
We are only allowed 999 tons or less for 1909, right?
Quote from: Delta Force on June 18, 2012, 03:21:45 PM
We are only allowed 999 tons or less for 1909, right?
If you want the ship completed at the start of the game, then yes. You will be allowed to continue to work on ships layed down pre-startup afterwards, but for bookkeeping reasons it may be easyer not to do so (my preferred choice).
A Prinz Adalbert based armored cruiser design with stronger armor.
1901 Heavy Cruiser, Colonial Navy CA laid down 1901
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w289/ubermatt3/smsprinzadalbert-1.jpg)
Displacement:
7,584 t light; 7,940 t standard; 8,960 t normal; 9,776 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(415.35 ft / 415.35 ft) x 64.30 ft x (25.59 / 27.25 ft)
(126.60 m / 126.60 m) x 19.60 m x (7.80 / 8.31 m)
Armament:
4 - 9.45" / 240 mm 40.0 cal guns - 363.76lbs / 165.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1901 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
10 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1901 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
4 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2,606 lbs / 1,182 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 269.19 ft / 82.05 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 146.13 ft / 44.54 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 6.89" / 175 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm - -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 14,531 ihp / 10,840 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 5,400nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,836 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
459 - 598
Cost:
£0.766 million / $3.063 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 489 tons, 5.5 %
- Guns: 489 tons, 5.5 %
Armour: 2,458 tons, 27.4 %
- Belts: 1,381 tons, 15.4 %
- Armament: 374 tons, 4.2 %
- Armour Deck: 630 tons, 7.0 %
- Conning Tower: 73 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 2,236 tons, 25.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,402 tons, 26.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,375 tons, 15.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9,122 lbs / 4,138 Kg = 21.6 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.46
Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 12.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.49
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.459 / 0.470
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.46 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.38 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93.5 %
Waterplane Area: 17,162 Square feet or 1,594 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 102 lbs/sq ft or 500 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.88
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Quote
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
Bad. Very Bad.
Not as bad as you make it sound, Nobody. The belt is only a foot or so off... Probably because Delta Force used the default setting and missed the fact that that would not give complete coverage. It should be an easy fix.
Quote from: Walter on June 19, 2012, 09:12:34 AM
Not as bad as you make it sound, Nobody. The belt is only a foot or so off... Probably because Delta Force used the default setting and missed the fact that that would not give complete coverage. It should be an easy fix.
I forgot to adjust the belt after editing some of the engine settings. It was only about a meter off. I had to bump the displacement up slightly but other than that and the armor changes it is the same:
1901 Heavy Cruiserv2, Colonial Navy CA laid down 1901
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w289/ubermatt3/smsprinzadalbert-1.jpg)
Displacement:
7,603 t light; 7,959 t standard; 8,980 t normal; 9,797 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(415.35 ft / 415.35 ft) x 64.30 ft x (25.59 / 27.26 ft)
(126.60 m / 126.60 m) x 19.60 m x (7.80 / 8.31 m)
Armament:
4 - 9.45" / 240 mm 40.0 cal guns - 363.76lbs / 165.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1901 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
10 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1901 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
4 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2,606 lbs / 1,182 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 272.31 ft / 83.00 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 143.01 ft / 43.59 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 6.89" / 175 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm - -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 14,556 ihp / 10,859 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 5,400nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,838 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
460 - 599
Cost:
£0.767 million / $3.068 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 489 tons, 5.4 %
- Guns: 489 tons, 5.4 %
Armour: 2,468 tons, 27.5 %
- Belts: 1,390 tons, 15.5 %
- Armament: 374 tons, 4.2 %
- Armour Deck: 631 tons, 7.0 %
- Conning Tower: 73 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 2,239 tons, 24.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,407 tons, 26.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,377 tons, 15.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9,169 lbs / 4,159 Kg = 21.7 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.46
Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 12.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.49
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.460 / 0.471
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.46 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.38 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93.3 %
Waterplane Area: 17,177 Square feet or 1,596 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 102 lbs/sq ft or 500 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.89
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Solid smaller AC, with a better main battery than the historical vessels (4 x 24cm vs 4 x 21cm). Speed may be a bit slow for AC service, though this will be more clear when compared against ships from your own continent.
I agree with KW, speed is a bit slow for an AC.
IMO
Choose 18kts for an EC or 21kts mini for an AC.
Jef ;)
This ship is intended for use defending convoys as well as doing work in the colonies. For that reason it has a single shaft engine capable of 16 knots. Despite its size it does carry 6 inch guns and has protected cruiser armor.
1895 Sloop, Colonial Navy SP laid down 1895
Displacement:
1,292 t light; 1,410 t standard; 1,700 t normal; 1,932 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(249.34 ft / 249.34 ft) x 36.09 ft x (11.48 / 12.78 ft)
(76.00 m / 76.00 m) x 11.00 m x (3.50 / 3.89 m)
Armament:
6 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 98.69lbs / 44.77kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 599 lbs / 272 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 249.34 ft / 76.00 m 5.00 ft / 1.53 m
Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 1 shaft, 2,701 ihp / 2,015 Kw = 16.00 kts
Range 3,600nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 521 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
132 - 172
Cost:
£0.135 million / $0.539 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 80 tons, 4.7 %
- Guns: 80 tons, 4.7 %
Armour: 355 tons, 20.9 %
- Belts: 91 tons, 5.3 %
- Armament: 25 tons, 1.5 %
- Armour Deck: 230 tons, 13.5 %
- Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 458 tons, 26.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 399 tons, 23.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 408 tons, 24.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,650 lbs / 749 Kg = 16.0 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.75
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 9.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.576 / 0.588
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.91 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.79 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 6.07 ft / 1.85 m, 6.07 ft / 1.85 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 6.07 ft / 1.85 m, 6.07 ft / 1.85 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 6.07 ft / 1.85 m, 6.07 ft / 1.85 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 6.07 ft / 1.85 m, 6.07 ft / 1.85 m
- Average freeboard: 6.07 ft / 1.85 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 54.9 %
Waterplane Area: 6,268 Square feet or 582 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 52 lbs/sq ft or 254 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.06
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Armor is in protected cruiser configuration.
Adjusted trial speed 16.5 knots.
IMO, range is too short for patrols, escorts & colonies work.
Range should be fine for escorting when she's laid down, the various countries don't have any overseas colonies then. I'm not enamored of the design otherwise, though, seems too specialized: too slow to operate with the battle fleet, definitely too slow to operate as a scout. The deck mounted 15cm guns will drop in ROF as soon as their ready rounds are exhausted, and there are no torpedoes.
On the map, a square is equal to 144nm - 266km
The strait under DF country is about 1300km - 700nm.
IMO, for colonies work, the range is short.
Jef
My point is, there AREN'T any colonies when the ship's laid down, and there won't be until after game start (15 years after that). So colony work is probably not a design concern for it.
1895-1910
Ships built in 1895 & a few years later did'nt stay in harbors, they run over horizon & discover new countries but didn't instal colonies.
We could suppose that DF know existance of new lands in the south @ about 500/1000nm but didn't explore them.
Idem for Nova Francia, new unexplored lands are in west @ about 2000/3000nm...
They may do that, or if they're escort cruisers, they might be used to protect shipping from unruly or unfriendly neighbors (like Carth). :)
Quotethey might be used to protect shipping from unruly or unfriendly neighbors (like Carth). :)
Carth? Don't you mean Desertfox?? ;D
Quote from: Walter on June 20, 2012, 09:22:15 AM
Quotethey might be used to protect shipping from unruly or unfriendly neighbors (like Carth). :)
Carth? Don't you mean Desertfox?? ;D
No, because Delta Force won't be on the same continent as DesertFox. ;D So DesertFox might be unruly, but he won't be a neighbor to DeltaForce (me, on the other hand..... :-\).
If you look at the N3 stuff, you'll know that it does not matter on which continent you are, Desertfox will be a neighbour, either close or distant. ;D
Quoteme, on the other hand.....
Yes, you and Jeff are in
real trouble. ;D
QuoteYes, you and Jef are in real trouble
We are quiet neighbours
:)
Yes, you are quiet, but Desertfox isn't.
And I am smack in the middle of you. Guess I am in for a long ride :o
Yes, your back's against the ocean. :D
Quote from: KWorld on June 20, 2012, 07:29:35 AM
Range should be fine for escorting when she's laid down, the various countries don't have any overseas colonies then. I'm not enamored of the design otherwise, though, seems too specialized: too slow to operate with the battle fleet, definitely too slow to operate as a scout. The deck mounted 15cm guns will drop in ROF as soon as their ready rounds are exhausted, and there are no torpedoes.
I was trying to choose between the 3.5 inch and 6 inch guns and chose to go with the bigger ones because they are much closer to the armament a light cruiser is likely to have. The speed limitation is actually more due to the size than due to lack of engine power (47% is going into wave production right now). It would have to be much longer to be able to efficiently use any increased power, driving up the costs of something meant as a cheap mass production escort (I am probably going to increase bunkerage and decrease shells carried though). As for torpedoes, I figure that due to its defensive role and lack of speed they would not be very useful weapons for it to have.
Quote from: Delta Force on June 20, 2012, 01:45:06 PM
Quote from: KWorld on June 20, 2012, 07:29:35 AM
Range should be fine for escorting when she's laid down, the various countries don't have any overseas colonies then. I'm not enamored of the design otherwise, though, seems too specialized: too slow to operate with the battle fleet, definitely too slow to operate as a scout. The deck mounted 15cm guns will drop in ROF as soon as their ready rounds are exhausted, and there are no torpedoes.
I was trying to choose between the 3.5 inch and 6 inch guns and chose to go with the bigger ones because they are much closer to the armament a light cruiser is likely to have. The speed limitation is actually more due to the size than due to lack of engine power (47% is going into wave production right now). It would have to be much longer to be able to efficiently use any increased power, driving up the costs of something meant as a cheap mass production escort (I am probably going to increase bunkerage and decrease shells carried though). As for torpedoes, I figure that due to its defensive role and lack of speed they would not be very useful weapons for it to have.
Another gun size you could look into is something around 4 inches: if you're basing some of your guns and designs on German vessels, they certainly used a 4.1" on light cruisers during a similar period.
Quote from: KWorld on June 20, 2012, 02:00:44 PM
Quote from: Delta Force on June 20, 2012, 01:45:06 PM
Quote from: KWorld on June 20, 2012, 07:29:35 AM
Range should be fine for escorting when she's laid down, the various countries don't have any overseas colonies then. I'm not enamored of the design otherwise, though, seems too specialized: too slow to operate with the battle fleet, definitely too slow to operate as a scout. The deck mounted 15cm guns will drop in ROF as soon as their ready rounds are exhausted, and there are no torpedoes.
I was trying to choose between the 3.5 inch and 6 inch guns and chose to go with the bigger ones because they are much closer to the armament a light cruiser is likely to have. The speed limitation is actually more due to the size than due to lack of engine power (47% is going into wave production right now). It would have to be much longer to be able to efficiently use any increased power, driving up the costs of something meant as a cheap mass production escort (I am probably going to increase bunkerage and decrease shells carried though). As for torpedoes, I figure that due to its defensive role and lack of speed they would not be very useful weapons for it to have.
Another gun size you could look into is something around 4 inches: if you're basing some of your guns and designs on German vessels, they certainly used a 4.1" on light cruisers during a similar period.
That is a nice idea. I have been trying to limit ammunition types in order to help with logistics. 105 mm guns are not really something that I plan on having used by the navy (the 90 mm and 150 mm are going to be the naval calibers), but they will certainly be used by the army. Given the role of the ship using army ammunition stocks will be a major advantage.
Changing to 105 mm allowed me to extend the range to 4800 miles at 12 knots and also reduce tonnage by 40 tons.
1895 Sloopv2, Colonial Navy SP laid down 1895
Displacement:
1,221 t light; 1,284 t standard; 1,660 t normal; 1,962 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(249.34 ft / 249.34 ft) x 36.09 ft x (11.48 / 13.19 ft)
(76.00 m / 76.00 m) x 11.00 m x (3.50 / 4.02 m)
Armament:
6 - 4.13" / 105 mm 40.0 cal guns - 33.07lbs / 15.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 205 lbs / 93 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 249.34 ft / 76.00 m 5.00 ft / 1.53 m
Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 1 shaft, 2,649 ihp / 1,976 Kw = 16.00 kts
Range 4,800nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 678 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
129 - 169
Cost:
£0.115 million / $0.459 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 30 tons, 1.8 %
- Guns: 30 tons, 1.8 %
Armour: 349 tons, 21.0 %
- Belts: 91 tons, 5.5 %
- Armament: 23 tons, 1.4 %
- Armour Deck: 227 tons, 13.7 %
- Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 449 tons, 27.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 392 tons, 23.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 439 tons, 26.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,029 lbs / 920 Kg = 57.4 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 2.00
Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 8.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.562 / 0.578
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.91 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.79 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 6.07 ft / 1.85 m, 6.07 ft / 1.85 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 6.07 ft / 1.85 m, 6.07 ft / 1.85 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 6.07 ft / 1.85 m, 6.07 ft / 1.85 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 6.07 ft / 1.85 m, 6.07 ft / 1.85 m
- Average freeboard: 6.07 ft / 1.85 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 55.3 %
Waterplane Area: 6,175 Square feet or 574 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 48 lbs/sq ft or 235 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.01
- Longitudinal: 0.99
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Armor is in protected cruiser configuration.
Adjusted trial speed 16.5 knots.
I suspect you're going to want something larger than a 90mm and smaller than a 150mm as a destroyer gun: the 90's really too small for the job and the 150's too big. But it's your call, in the end.
Quote from: KWorld on June 20, 2012, 05:12:06 PM
I suspect you're going to want something larger than a 90mm and smaller than a 150mm as a destroyer gun: the 90's really too small for the job and the 150's too big. But it's your call, in the end.
Would you go with the 105 mm (4.1 inch), 115 mm (4.5 inch), or 125 mm (5 inch)? Not sure which one strikes the right balance between stopping power and rate of fire, and for smaller ships a uniform battery would be quite nice.
For now, I would stay closer to 4" than 5" for destroyer guns, mostly for ROF reasons (when you're up near 5", separate loading is recommended). If you look at the DD I recently posted for the CRN, you'll see an armament of 100mm guns.....
I increased the light secondary armament to 90 mm from 50 mm in order to provide more firepower. That, and the coastal battleship was going to be the only capital ship using the caliber, so switching out simplifies logistics.
1895 Coastal Battleshipv3, Colonial Navy BB laid down 1895
Displacement:
5,276 t light; 5,548 t standard; 5,960 t normal; 6,289 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(328.08 ft / 328.08 ft) x 56.59 ft x (20.57 / 21.46 ft)
(100.00 m / 100.00 m) x 17.25 m x (6.27 / 6.54 m)
Armament:
4 - 9.45" / 240 mm 40.0 cal guns - 363.76lbs / 165.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
14 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
14 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
14 raised mounts
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2,297 lbs / 1,042 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.45" / 240 mm 212.27 ft / 64.70 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ends: 4.92" / 125 mm 115.81 ft / 35.30 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 9.45" / 240 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.45" / 240 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 5,366 ihp / 4,003 Kw = 16.00 kts
Range 2,400nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 741 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
338 - 440
Cost:
£0.485 million / $1.939 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 442 tons, 7.4 %
- Guns: 442 tons, 7.4 %
Armour: 2,283 tons, 38.3 %
- Belts: 1,350 tons, 22.6 %
- Armament: 392 tons, 6.6 %
- Armour Deck: 474 tons, 8.0 %
- Conning Tower: 67 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 910 tons, 15.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,641 tons, 27.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 684 tons, 11.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,905 lbs / 3,132 Kg = 16.4 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 13.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.26
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.546 / 0.552
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.11 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 71.6 %
Waterplane Area: 12,913 Square feet or 1,200 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 501 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.73
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Seeing as the quick firing guns are using single piece ammunition, would it be possible for a 105 mm naval cannon to be able to fire "army" and "navy" shells of 105 mm (assuming the navy shells have longer cases)? Army 105 mm guns had a lower muzzle velocity than naval guns, but it would be useful to have the ability to use such ammunition supplies. If that is not really something possible to do I'll use the 115 mm as the dedicated naval caliber since it is between the 90 mm and 150 mm in shell weight.
Here is the current confirmed building schedule for the navy as it stands now. Battlecruisers, large armored cruisers, frigates (armored cruisers with more emphasis on speed over armament), corvettes (fleet scouting/light cruisers), and sloops (escort cruisers) are not listed right now, but I have designs for those. I don't have designs for destroyers or any other ships.
1895 Program (21940 tons out of 38460 tons)
-- BB-1 (A class battleship) = 5960 tons
-- BB-2 (A class battleship) = 5960 tons
-- BB-5 (B class battleship) = 10020 tons
1896 Program (21940 tons out of 38460 tons)
-- BB-3 (A class battleship) = 5960 tons
-- BB-4 (A class battleship) = 5960 tons
-- BB-6 (B class battleship) = 10020 tons
1897 Program (19740 tons out 38640 tons)
-- BB-7 (B class battleship) = 10020 tons
-- CA-1 (A class armored cruiser) = 9860 tons
1898 Program (19740 tons out 38640 tons)
-- BB-8 (B class battleship) = 10020 tons
-- CA-2 (A class armored cruiser) = 9860 tons
1899 Program (9720 tons out 38640 tons)
-- CA-3 (A class armored cruiser) = 9720 tons
1900 Program (9720 tons out 38640 tons)
-- CA-4 (A class armored cruiser) = 9720 tons
1901 Program (21940 tons out 38660 tons)
-- BB-9 (C class battleship) = 12980 tons
-- CA-5 (B class armored cruiser) = 8980 tons
1902 Program (21940 tons out 38660 tons)
-- BB-10 (C class battleship) = 12980 tons
-- CA-6 (B class armored cruiser) = 8980 tons
1903 Program (21940 tons out 38660 tons)
-- BB-11 (C class battleship) = 12980 tons
-- CA-7 (B class armored cruiser) = 8980 tons
1904 Program (21940 tons out 38660 tons)
-- BB-12 (C class battleship) = 12980 tons
-- CA-8 (B class armored cruiser) = 8980 tons
1905 Program (13840 tons out 38640 tons)
-- BB-13 (D class battleship) = 13840 tons
1906 Program (13840 tons out 38640 tons)
-- BB-14 (D class battleship) = 13840 tons
1907 Program (13840 tons out 38640 tons)
-- BB-15 (D class battleship) = 13840 tons
1908 Program (13840 tons out 38640 tons)
-- BB-16 (D class battleship) = 13840 tons
Leftover for 1909: 20 tons
Quote from: Delta Force on June 21, 2012, 05:21:25 PM
Seeing as the quick firing guns are using single piece ammunition, would it be possible for a 105 mm naval cannon to be able to fire "army" and "navy" shells of 105 mm (assuming the navy shells have longer cases)? Army 105 mm guns had a lower muzzle velocity than naval guns, but it would be useful to have the ability to use such ammunition supplies. If that is not really something possible to do I'll use the 115 mm as the dedicated naval caliber since it is between the 90 mm and 150 mm in shell weight.
The shells would PROBABLY be compatible, but there's not a lot of need for a Army 105mm single piece round at this point in time: any army 105mms would want to have multiple charges, which isn't really feasible with a one-piece round.
This is quite the swift torpedo boat, especially for 1895. It can hit 30 knots and has a fairly decent range to match. A few of these will certainly see service with the green water navy and colonial forces.
Light Torpedo Boat Model 1895v4, Colonial Navy TB laid down 1895
Displacement:
208 t light; 214 t standard; 250 t normal; 279 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(196.85 ft / 196.85 ft) x 16.40 ft x (7.14 / 7.66 ft)
(60.00 m / 60.00 m) x 5.00 m x (2.18 / 2.33 m)
Armament:
3 - 1.06" / 27.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 2 lbs / 1 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.30" / 8 mm - -
- Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3,781 ihp / 2,820 Kw = 23.75 kts
Range 220nm at 23.75 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 66 tons (100% coal)
Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery
Complement:
30 - 40
Cost:
£0.029 million / $0.115 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1 tons, 0.2 %
- Guns: 1 tons, 0.2 %
Armour: 3 tons, 1.4 %
- Armament: 3 tons, 1.1 %
- Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 152 tons, 60.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 52 tons, 20.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 42 tons, 16.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1 tons, 0.3 %
- On freeboard deck: 1 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
46 lbs / 21 Kg = 76.3 x 1.1 " / 27 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.55
Metacentric height 0.7 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 8.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.84
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.380 / 0.396
Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14.03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 5.25 ft / 1.60 m, 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 5.25 ft / 1.60 m, 5.25 ft / 1.60 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 5.25 ft / 1.60 m, 5.25 ft / 1.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 5.25 ft / 1.60 m, 5.25 ft / 1.60 m
- Average freeboard: 5.84 ft / 1.78 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 196.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 65.4 %
Waterplane Area: 1,961 Square feet or 182 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 19 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 14 lbs/sq ft or 71 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 0.76
- Overall: 0.52
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather
Adjusted trial speed of 30 knots.
Mount gun armor is 7.5 mm, program rounds it to 8 mm.
Miscellaneous weight:
2 400 mm / 5.6 meter single shot deck mounted fixed torpedo tubes.
Quote from: Delta Force on June 23, 2012, 01:18:57 AM
This is quite the swift torpedo boat, especially for 1895. It can hit 30 knots and has a fairly decent range to match. A few of these will certainly see service with the green water navy and colonial forces.
Light Torpedo Boat Model 1895v4, Colonial Navy TB laid down 1895
Displacement:
208 t light; 214 t standard; 250 t normal; 279 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(196.85 ft / 196.85 ft) x 16.40 ft x (7.14 / 7.66 ft)
(60.00 m / 60.00 m) x 5.00 m x (2.18 / 2.33 m)
Armament:
3 - 1.06" / 27.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 2 lbs / 1 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.30" / 8 mm - -
- Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3,781 ihp / 2,820 Kw = 23.75 kts
Range 220nm at 23.75 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 66 tons (100% coal)
Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery
Complement:
30 - 40
Cost:
£0.029 million / $0.115 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1 tons, 0.2 %
- Guns: 1 tons, 0.2 %
Armour: 3 tons, 1.4 %
- Armament: 3 tons, 1.1 %
- Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 152 tons, 60.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 52 tons, 20.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 42 tons, 16.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1 tons, 0.3 %
- On freeboard deck: 1 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
46 lbs / 21 Kg = 76.3 x 1.1 " / 27 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.55
Metacentric height 0.7 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 8.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.84
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.380 / 0.396
Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14.03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 5.25 ft / 1.60 m, 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 5.25 ft / 1.60 m, 5.25 ft / 1.60 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 5.25 ft / 1.60 m, 5.25 ft / 1.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 5.25 ft / 1.60 m, 5.25 ft / 1.60 m
- Average freeboard: 5.84 ft / 1.78 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 196.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 65.4 %
Waterplane Area: 1,961 Square feet or 182 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 19 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 14 lbs/sq ft or 71 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 0.76
- Overall: 0.52
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather
Adjusted trial speed of 30 knots.
Mount gun armor is 7.5 mm, program rounds it to 8 mm.
Miscellaneous weight:
2 400 mm / 5.6 meter single shot deck mounted fixed torpedo tubes.
Actually, it's not legal. Why? Because to make the cut for "small, fast", it has to have a speed of at least 24.0 knots.
Quote from: KWorld on June 23, 2012, 08:12:39 AM
Actually, it's not legal. Why? Because to make the cut for "small, fast", it has to have a speed of at least 24.0 knots.
Where did you see/read that?
Quote from: Nobody on June 23, 2012, 11:04:48 AM
Quote from: KWorld on June 23, 2012, 08:12:39 AM
Actually, it's not legal. Why? Because to make the cut for "small, fast", it has to have a speed of at least 24.0 knots.
Where did you see/read that?
Came up several weeks ago, see this post and the thread it's in: http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,5835.msg76230.html#msg76230 (http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,5835.msg76230.html#msg76230).
I have three main competitors for my navy's 1905 heavy cruiser design. The first is a large armored cruiser, the second is a semi-dreadnought battlecruiser, and the last one is a Fisherite semi-dreadnought battlecruiser. While the Fisherite design is an excellent scout cruiser design, it really is an eggshell with a hammer. The semi-dreadnought battlecruiser seems to be a very well balanced design as it carries a lot of armor and can be overhauled to go faster once turbines and oil propulsion come out for larger ships. I will probably build the semi-dreadnought battlecruiser and the large armored cruiser, so both the types might evolve together in my navy.
1905 Large Armored Cruiserv2, Colonial Navy CA laid down 1905
Displacement:
11,599 t light; 12,037 t standard; 13,550 t normal; 14,759 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(498.69 ft / 498.69 ft) x 72.18 ft x (26.90 / 28.69 ft)
(152.00 m / 152.00 m) x 22.00 m x (8.20 / 8.74 m)
Armament:
8 - 9.45" / 240 mm 40.0 cal guns - 363.76lbs / 165.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
12 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
12 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,179 lbs / 1,442 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.45" / 240 mm 347.77 ft / 106.00 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 150.92 ft / 46.00 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Main Belt covers 107 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
2nd: 7.87" / 200 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 6.89" / 175 mm
3rd: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 25,634 ihp / 19,123 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 6,900nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,722 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
627 - 816
Cost:
£1.201 million / $4.805 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 677 tons, 5.0 %
- Guns: 677 tons, 5.0 %
Armour: 3,567 tons, 26.3 %
- Belts: 1,967 tons, 14.5 %
- Armament: 631 tons, 4.7 %
- Armour Deck: 872 tons, 6.4 %
- Conning Tower: 96 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,678 tons, 27.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,677 tons, 27.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,951 tons, 14.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11,542 lbs / 5,235 Kg = 17.2 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 13.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 84 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.31
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.35
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.490 / 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.91 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.33 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 14.27 ft / 4.35 m, 14.27 ft / 4.35 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 14.27 ft / 4.35 m, 14.27 ft / 4.35 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 14.27 ft / 4.35 m, 14.27 ft / 4.35 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 14.27 ft / 4.35 m, 14.27 ft / 4.35 m
- Average freeboard: 14.27 ft / 4.35 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 103.0 %
Waterplane Area: 23,761 Square feet or 2,207 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 561 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.43
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
1905 Battlecruiserv2, Colonial Navy CC laid down 1905
Displacement:
15,109 t light; 15,731 t standard; 17,530 t normal; 18,969 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(590.55 ft / 590.55 ft) x 78.74 ft x (26.90 / 28.54 ft)
(180.00 m / 180.00 m) x 24.00 m x (8.20 / 8.70 m)
Armament:
4 - 11.02" / 280 mm 40.0 cal guns - 551.16lbs / 250.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 9.45" / 240 mm 40.0 cal guns - 363.76lbs / 165.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
14 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
14 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,428 lbs / 2,462 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.45" / 240 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 196.85 ft / 60.00 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.45" / 240 mm 4.92" / 125 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 7.87" / 200 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 6.89" / 175 mm
3rd: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 28,561 ihp / 21,307 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 6,900nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,237 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
761 - 990
Cost:
£1.598 million / $6.392 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,098 tons, 6.3 %
- Guns: 1,098 tons, 6.3 %
Armour: 4,557 tons, 26.0 %
- Belts: 2,273 tons, 13.0 %
- Armament: 1,042 tons, 5.9 %
- Armour Deck: 1,128 tons, 6.4 %
- Conning Tower: 114 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 4,098 tons, 23.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,356 tons, 30.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,420 tons, 13.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
16,265 lbs / 7,378 Kg = 24.3 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.490 / 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.30 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 14.27 ft / 4.35 m, 14.27 ft / 4.35 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 14.27 ft / 4.35 m, 14.27 ft / 4.35 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 14.27 ft / 4.35 m, 14.27 ft / 4.35 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 14.27 ft / 4.35 m, 14.27 ft / 4.35 m
- Average freeboard: 14.27 ft / 4.35 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 109.7 %
Waterplane Area: 30,715 Square feet or 2,854 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 659 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.12
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
1905 Battlecruiser Fisherite, Colonial Navy CC laid down 1905
Displacement:
17,385 t light; 18,057 t standard; 20,000 t normal; 21,554 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(590.55 ft / 590.55 ft) x 78.74 ft x (28.87 / 30.59 ft)
(180.00 m / 180.00 m) x 24.00 m x (8.80 / 9.32 m)
Armament:
4 - 11.02" / 280 mm 40.0 cal guns - 551.16lbs / 250.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 9.45" / 240 mm 40.0 cal guns - 363.76lbs / 165.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
14 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
14 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,428 lbs / 2,462 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 590.55 ft / 180.00 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 4.92" / 125 mm 6.89" / 175 mm
2nd: 6.89" / 175 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
3rd: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.57" / 40 mm
Forecastle: 1.57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 50,101 ihp / 37,375 Kw = 24.92 kts
Range 6,900nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,498 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
840 - 1,093
Cost:
£2.110 million / $8.442 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,098 tons, 5.5 %
- Guns: 1,098 tons, 5.5 %
Armour: 3,571 tons, 17.9 %
- Belts: 1,588 tons, 7.9 %
- Armament: 931 tons, 4.7 %
- Armour Deck: 928 tons, 4.6 %
- Conning Tower: 125 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 7,189 tons, 35.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,527 tons, 27.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,615 tons, 13.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
10,385 lbs / 4,710 Kg = 15.5 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.50
Metacentric height 7.0 ft / 2.1 m
Roll period: 12.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.08
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.521 / 0.530
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.30 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Average freeboard: 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 138.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.7 %
Waterplane Area: 31,597 Square feet or 2,935 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 653 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.12
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Well, the large armored cruiser isn't legal by the rules (4 centerline twin turrets means she'll be able to fire 8 guns on a broadside). The other two are both battleships by the rules (main guns are larger than 10"), albeit fast battleships. Nothing I can see wrong with them, both of them are solid enough, though as you say the Fisherite is a bit light on the armor for the size of her main and secondary batteries. You may want to either raise or lower your casemate batteries, though, so they can fire around the turrets lining the side of the ship.
Are we allowed to have propulsion "longer" than the hull as long as the rest of the design has no issues? I am designing a light cruiser that has machinery so "long" that even full length hull armor does not protect it all. Is having such "long" machinery supposed to represent that some of it is outside the belt?
Look at quickly your Fleet, I note the belt thickness of your BBs...
IMO, with 280mm guns, 280mm max belt, that's coherent but
with 240mm guns, 230 to 240 belt are enough.
BBs with 240mm guns are secondary class BB - Armor thickness must be secondary class too.
---
I note too that speed cost very much in displacement in the earlier years (1895-1900)
Are you sure that 20kts ACs with 240mm guns are really different with 18 kts BBs with 240mm guns ?
---
IMO, You could have 1 class of ships with 240mm guns
Light BB - 4x240 - 18kts-B230
AC - 4x240 - 20kts - B200
mixed : 4x240 - 18kts - B200
Jef ;)
Quote from: Delta Force on July 01, 2012, 04:38:48 PM
Are we allowed to have propulsion "longer" than the hull as long as the rest of the design has no issues? I am designing a light cruiser that has machinery so "long" that even full length hull armor does not protect it all. Is having such "long" machinery supposed to represent that some of it is outside the belt?
It's not so much that it's outside the belt as it's above the waterline. SS tries to keep the magazine and engine spaces below the waterline, but sometimes there simply isn't room for that (see the USN's original design for the
Lexingont-class BCs for an example). It's fine, happens with lots of fast ships.
I have decided to take Jefgte's advice and better differentiate the battleships and armored cruisers of the fleet. All battleships now carry 11 inch guns, and the armored cruisers will have a higher top speed of at least 21 knots, allowing them to at least keep up with the battleline once turbine powered ships are brought into service. I will be posting up the armored cruisers shortly.
1895 Coastal Battleship 11 Inch, Colonial Navy BB laid down 1895
Displacement:
5,746 t light; 6,062 t standard; 6,500 t normal; 6,851 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(328.08 ft / 328.08 ft) x 56.59 ft x (20.57 / 21.47 ft)
(100.00 m / 100.00 m) x 17.25 m x (6.27 / 6.54 m)
Armament:
4 - 11.02" / 280 mm 40.0 cal guns - 551.16lbs / 250.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
14 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
14 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
14 raised mounts
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 3,047 lbs / 1,382 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.45" / 240 mm 212.27 ft / 64.70 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ends: 4.92" / 125 mm 115.81 ft / 35.30 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 9.45" / 240 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.45" / 240 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 5,731 ihp / 4,275 Kw = 15.99 kts
Range 2,400nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 788 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
361 - 470
Cost:
£0.589 million / $2.354 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 537 tons, 8.3 %
- Guns: 537 tons, 8.3 %
Armour: 2,374 tons, 36.5 %
- Belts: 1,353 tons, 20.8 %
- Armament: 454 tons, 7.0 %
- Armour Deck: 497 tons, 7.6 %
- Conning Tower: 71 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 971 tons, 14.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,863 tons, 28.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 754 tons, 11.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,653 lbs / 3,018 Kg = 9.9 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 13.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.596 / 0.601
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.11 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 70.2 %
Waterplane Area: 13,527 Square feet or 1,257 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 111 lbs/sq ft or 540 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.74
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
1895 Battleship 11 Inch, Colonial Navy BB laid down 1895
Displacement:
9,063 t light; 9,514 t standard; 10,630 t normal; 11,522 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(410.11 ft / 410.11 ft) x 66.93 ft x (25.92 / 27.59 ft)
(125.00 m / 125.00 m) x 20.40 m x (7.90 / 8.41 m)
Armament:
4 - 11.02" / 280 mm 40.0 cal guns - 551.16lbs / 250.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1895 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
12 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
12 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
12 raised mounts
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,708 lbs / 1,682 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 265.26 ft / 80.85 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ends: 4.92" / 125 mm 144.85 ft / 44.15 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 9.45" / 240 mm
2nd: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
3rd: 5.91" / 150 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9.45" / 240 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 11,099 ihp / 8,280 Kw = 18.00 kts
Range 4,800nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,007 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
523 - 680
Cost:
£0.888 million / $3.553 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 697 tons, 6.6 %
- Guns: 697 tons, 6.6 %
Armour: 3,395 tons, 31.9 %
- Belts: 1,891 tons, 17.8 %
- Armament: 720 tons, 6.8 %
- Armour Deck: 686 tons, 6.5 %
- Conning Tower: 98 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,881 tons, 17.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,089 tons, 29.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,567 tons, 14.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12,134 lbs / 5,504 Kg = 18.1 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 13.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.50
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.523 / 0.532
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.13 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94.4 %
Waterplane Area: 18,678 Square feet or 1,735 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 123 lbs/sq ft or 599 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 1.97
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
The revised heavy cruiser designs:
1897 Heavy Cruiser 21 Knot, Colonial Navy CA laid down 1897
Displacement:
8,936 t light; 9,331 t standard; 10,530 t normal; 11,490 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(416.67 ft / 416.67 ft) x 66.93 ft x (25.59 / 27.37 ft)
(127.00 m / 127.00 m) x 20.40 m x (7.80 / 8.34 m)
Armament:
4 - 9.45" / 240 mm 40.0 cal guns - 363.76lbs / 165.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1897 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
12 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1897 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
4 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1897 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
6 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
6 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2,738 lbs / 1,242 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 318.64 ft / 97.12 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 98.03 ft / 29.88 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Main Belt covers 118 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 6.89" / 175 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm - -
3rd: 3.94" / 100 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.57" / 40 mm
Forecastle: 1.57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 19,817 ihp / 14,783 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 5,400nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,158 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
519 - 675
Cost:
£0.961 million / $3.846 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 509 tons, 4.8 %
- Guns: 509 tons, 4.8 %
Armour: 2,500 tons, 23.7 %
- Belts: 1,463 tons, 13.9 %
- Armament: 402 tons, 3.8 %
- Armour Deck: 554 tons, 5.3 %
- Conning Tower: 82 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 3,249 tons, 30.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,678 tons, 25.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,594 tons, 15.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
7,757 lbs / 3,518 Kg = 18.4 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.48
Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 12.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.26
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.516 / 0.527
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.23 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.41 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 117.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 90.9 %
Waterplane Area: 18,863 Square feet or 1,752 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 106 lbs/sq ft or 519 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.76
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
1901 Heavy Cruiser 21 Knot, Colonial Navy CA laid down 1901
Displacement:
8,214 t light; 8,583 t standard; 9,650 t normal; 10,503 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(415.35 ft / 415.35 ft) x 64.30 ft x (25.59 / 27.28 ft)
(126.60 m / 126.60 m) x 19.60 m x (7.80 / 8.31 m)
Armament:
4 - 9.45" / 240 mm 40.0 cal guns - 363.76lbs / 165.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1901 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
10 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1901 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
4 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 2,606 lbs / 1,182 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 316.31 ft / 96.41 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 99.02 ft / 30.18 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Main Belt covers 117 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 6.89" / 175 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm - -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.57" / 40 mm
Forecastle: 1.57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 18,577 ihp / 13,859 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 5,400nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,919 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
486 - 632
Cost:
£0.875 million / $3.500 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 489 tons, 5.1 %
- Guns: 489 tons, 5.1 %
Armour: 2,424 tons, 25.1 %
- Belts: 1,453 tons, 15.1 %
- Armament: 374 tons, 3.9 %
- Armour Deck: 520 tons, 5.4 %
- Conning Tower: 77 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 2,858 tons, 29.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,443 tons, 25.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,435 tons, 14.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
7,457 lbs / 3,383 Kg = 17.7 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.44
Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 12.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.25
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.31
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.494 / 0.505
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.46 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.38 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 91.0 %
Waterplane Area: 17,701 Square feet or 1,644 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 101 lbs/sq ft or 495 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.82
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
On the 1895 BB, I think you'll probably need to move the casemate 150mm guns to the hull, to get decent arcs of fire when you have the deck & hoist mounted 150mms as well.
Here are the frigate designs for my navy (I've decided to use sailing ship designations for my light cruisers to help distinguish between them). The ships can actually mount a single 9.45 inch gun instead of the two 7.5 inch guns, which would certainly add a nice bit of fire support to them. The only issue is that if I do so it will no longer be a light cruiser, which means no turbines. That is something of an issue since these ships are intended to bring heavy firepower to scouting and torpedo attack flotillas.
Each frigate design is divided into two variants, a protected cruiser variant and an unprotected cruiser variant. They are both identical in dimensions, the only difference is that the unprotected variant trades armor for speed.
1897 Frigate, Colonial Navy FF laid down 1897
Displacement:
4,911 t light; 5,141 t standard; 6,000 t normal; 6,688 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(405.51 ft / 405.51 ft) x 52.00 ft x (21.00 / 22.75 ft)
(123.60 m / 123.60 m) x 15.85 m x (6.40 / 6.93 m)
Armament:
2 - 7.48" / 190 mm 40.0 cal guns - 198.42lbs / 90.00kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1897 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1897 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
1 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal gun - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1897 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 1,280 lbs / 580 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 405.51 ft / 123.60 m 5.00 ft / 1.53 m
Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 4.92" / 125 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 13,908 ihp / 10,375 Kw = 21.10 kts
Range 5,400nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,546 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
340 - 443
Cost:
£0.565 million / $2.261 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 230 tons, 3.8 %
- Guns: 230 tons, 3.8 %
Armour: 854 tons, 14.2 %
- Belts: 148 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 160 tons, 2.7 %
- Armour Deck: 504 tons, 8.4 %
- Conning Tower: 42 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 2,280 tons, 38.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,548 tons, 25.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,089 tons, 18.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,312 lbs / 1,502 Kg = 15.8 x 7.5 " / 190 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.53
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 11.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.19
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.474 / 0.488
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.14 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 135.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75.7 %
Waterplane Area: 13,731 Square feet or 1,276 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 82 lbs/sq ft or 400 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.25
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
1897 Frigate Unprotected, Colonial Navy FF laid down 1897
Displacement:
4,911 t light; 5,141 t standard; 6,000 t normal; 6,688 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(405.51 ft / 405.51 ft) x 52.00 ft x (21.00 / 22.75 ft)
(123.60 m / 123.60 m) x 15.85 m x (6.40 / 6.93 m)
Armament:
2 - 7.48" / 190 mm 40.0 cal guns - 198.42lbs / 90.00kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1897 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1897 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
1 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal gun - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1897 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 1,280 lbs / 580 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 4.92" / 125 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 0.98" / 25 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 16,431 ihp / 12,257 Kw = 22.03 kts
Range 5,400nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,546 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
340 - 443
Cost:
£0.623 million / $2.493 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 230 tons, 3.8 %
- Guns: 230 tons, 3.8 %
Armour: 433 tons, 7.2 %
- Armament: 160 tons, 2.7 %
- Armour Deck: 252 tons, 4.2 %
- Conning Tower: 21 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,694 tons, 44.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,555 tons, 25.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,089 tons, 18.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,570 lbs / 1,166 Kg = 12.3 x 7.5 " / 190 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.67
Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 10.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.17
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.474 / 0.488
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.14 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 157.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75.7 %
Waterplane Area: 13,731 Square feet or 1,276 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 82 lbs/sq ft or 402 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.25
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
1901 Frigate, Colonial Navy FF laid down 1901
Displacement:
4,958 t light; 5,188 t standard; 6,000 t normal; 6,650 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(429.79 ft / 429.79 ft) x 48.56 ft x (21.00 / 22.66 ft)
(131.00 m / 131.00 m) x 14.80 m x (6.40 / 6.91 m)
Armament:
2 - 7.48" / 190 mm 40.0 cal guns - 198.42lbs / 90.00kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1901 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1901 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
1 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal gun - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1901 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 1,280 lbs / 580 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 429.79 ft / 131.00 m 5.00 ft / 1.53 m
Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 4.92" / 125 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 13,342 ihp / 9,953 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 5,400nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,462 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
340 - 443
Cost:
£0.535 million / $2.140 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 230 tons, 3.8 %
- Guns: 230 tons, 3.8 %
Armour: 1,173 tons, 19.5 %
- Belts: 470 tons, 7.8 %
- Armament: 160 tons, 2.7 %
- Armour Deck: 501 tons, 8.4 %
- Conning Tower: 42 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 2,053 tons, 34.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,503 tons, 25.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,042 tons, 17.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,925 lbs / 1,780 Kg = 18.8 x 7.5 " / 190 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.48
Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 11.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.19
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.479 / 0.492
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.85 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.73 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 123.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75.3 %
Waterplane Area: 13,648 Square feet or 1,268 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 78 lbs/sq ft or 379 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.13
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
1901 Frigate Unprotected, Colonial Navy FF laid down 1901
Displacement:
4,958 t light; 5,188 t standard; 6,000 t normal; 6,650 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(429.79 ft / 429.79 ft) x 48.56 ft x (21.00 / 22.66 ft)
(131.00 m / 131.00 m) x 14.80 m x (6.40 / 6.91 m)
Armament:
2 - 7.48" / 190 mm 40.0 cal guns - 198.42lbs / 90.00kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1901 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1901 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
1 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal gun - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1901 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 1,280 lbs / 580 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 4.92" / 125 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 0.98" / 25 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 18,101 ihp / 13,504 Kw = 22.75 kts
Range 5,400nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,462 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
340 - 443
Cost:
£0.638 million / $2.550 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 230 tons, 3.8 %
- Guns: 230 tons, 3.8 %
Armour: 431 tons, 7.2 %
- Armament: 160 tons, 2.7 %
- Armour Deck: 251 tons, 4.2 %
- Conning Tower: 21 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,785 tons, 46.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,512 tons, 25.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,042 tons, 17.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,433 lbs / 1,104 Kg = 11.6 x 7.5 " / 190 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.71
Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 10.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.18
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.11
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.479 / 0.492
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.85 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.73 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 162.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75.3 %
Waterplane Area: 13,648 Square feet or 1,268 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 89 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 78 lbs/sq ft or 381 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.11
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
1905 Frigate, Colonial Navy FF laid down 1905
Displacement:
4,859 t light; 5,096 t standard; 6,000 t normal; 6,723 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(429.79 ft / 429.79 ft) x 48.56 ft x (21.00 / 22.85 ft)
(131.00 m / 131.00 m) x 14.80 m x (6.40 / 6.97 m)
Armament:
2 - 7.48" / 190 mm 40.0 cal guns - 200.58lbs / 90.98kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 98.69lbs / 44.77kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 21.32lbs / 9.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
1 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal gun - 1.48lbs / 0.67kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1905 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 1,363 lbs / 618 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 429.79 ft / 131.00 m 5.00 ft / 1.53 m
Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 4.92" / 125 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 22,287 shp / 16,626 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 5,400nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,627 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
340 - 443
Cost:
£0.502 million / $2.007 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 230 tons, 3.8 %
- Guns: 230 tons, 3.8 %
Armour: 1,179 tons, 19.7 %
- Belts: 470 tons, 7.8 %
- Armament: 166 tons, 2.8 %
- Armour Deck: 501 tons, 8.4 %
- Conning Tower: 42 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 1,839 tons, 30.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,611 tons, 26.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,141 tons, 19.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
5,003 lbs / 2,269 Kg = 23.9 x 7.5 " / 190 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.44
Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 11.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.27
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.13
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.479 / 0.493
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.85 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.73 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Average freeboard: 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 112.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 87.8 %
Waterplane Area: 13,648 Square feet or 1,268 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 80 lbs/sq ft or 392 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.34
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
1905 Frigate Unprotected, Colonial Navy FF laid down 1905
Displacement:
4,859 t light; 5,096 t standard; 6,000 t normal; 6,723 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(429.79 ft / 429.79 ft) x 48.56 ft x (21.00 / 22.85 ft)
(131.00 m / 131.00 m) x 14.80 m x (6.40 / 6.97 m)
Armament:
2 - 7.48" / 190 mm 40.0 cal guns - 200.58lbs / 90.98kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 98.69lbs / 44.77kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 21.32lbs / 9.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
1 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal gun - 1.48lbs / 0.67kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1905 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 1,363 lbs / 618 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 4.92" / 125 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 0.98" / 25 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 30,010 shp / 22,387 Kw = 25.87 kts
Range 5,400nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,627 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
340 - 443
Cost:
£0.591 million / $2.364 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 230 tons, 3.8 %
- Guns: 230 tons, 3.8 %
Armour: 465 tons, 7.8 %
- Armament: 173 tons, 2.9 %
- Armour Deck: 251 tons, 4.2 %
- Conning Tower: 42 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 2,476 tons, 41.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,688 tons, 28.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,141 tons, 19.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,225 lbs / 1,463 Kg = 15.4 x 7.5 " / 190 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.54
Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 10.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.28
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.09
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.479 / 0.493
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.85 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.73 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 145.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.3 %
Waterplane Area: 13,648 Square feet or 1,268 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 82 lbs/sq ft or 398 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.51
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Here are the corvettes of my navy. These are the torpedo cruisers, although I suppose I could add torpedoes to my frigates as well. They are also intended as destroyer escorts (which would themselves be considered a torpedo cruiser by contemporary historical standards).
Edit notice: I edited the designs to increase the torpedoes to 450 mm instead of 400 mm and also reduced the armor on the deck guns to 20 mm from 50 mm.
1897 Corvettev2, Colonial Navy KK laid down 1897
Displacement:
3,786 t light; 3,907 t standard; 4,645 t normal; 5,235 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(387.14 ft / 387.14 ft) x 46.36 ft x (19.03 / 20.79 ft)
(118.00 m / 118.00 m) x 14.13 m x (5.80 / 6.34 m)
Armament:
2 - 4.13" / 105 mm 40.0 cal guns - 33.07lbs / 15.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1897 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 4.13" / 105 mm 40.0 cal guns - 33.07lbs / 15.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
1 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal gun - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1897 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 332 lbs / 151 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 0.98" / 25 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 14,099 ihp / 10,518 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 5,400nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,328 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
280 - 365
Cost:
£0.472 million / $1.886 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 54 tons, 1.2 %
- Guns: 54 tons, 1.2 %
Armour: 277 tons, 6.0 %
- Armament: 44 tons, 1.0 %
- Armour Deck: 215 tons, 4.6 %
- Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,297 tons, 49.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,155 tons, 24.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 858 tons, 18.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 3 tons, 0.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 3 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,946 lbs / 883 Kg = 55.1 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.86
Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 9.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.476 / 0.491
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.35 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.68 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
- Average freeboard: 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 163.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 71.8 %
Waterplane Area: 11,704 Square feet or 1,087 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 67 lbs/sq ft or 327 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.08
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Miscellaneous weight:
4 450 mm / 6.3 meter single shot deck mounted fixed torpedo tubes.
1901 Corvettev2, Colonial Navy KK laid down 1901
Displacement:
3,995 t light; 4,120 t standard; 4,830 t normal; 5,397 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(403.54 ft / 403.54 ft) x 46.39 ft x (19.03 / 20.66 ft)
(123.00 m / 123.00 m) x 14.14 m x (5.80 / 6.30 m)
Armament:
2 - 4.13" / 105 mm 40.0 cal guns - 33.85lbs / 15.35kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1901 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 4.13" / 105 mm 40.0 cal guns - 33.84lbs / 15.35kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
1 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal gun - 1.48lbs / 0.67kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1901 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 340 lbs / 154 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 0.98" / 25 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 16,155 ihp / 12,052 Kw = 22.75 kts
Range 5,400nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,277 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
289 - 376
Cost:
£0.504 million / $2.016 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 54 tons, 1.1 %
- Guns: 54 tons, 1.1 %
Armour: 286 tons, 5.9 %
- Armament: 44 tons, 0.9 %
- Armour Deck: 224 tons, 4.6 %
- Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,476 tons, 51.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,176 tons, 24.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 835 tons, 17.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 3 tons, 0.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 3 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,886 lbs / 855 Kg = 53.4 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.86
Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 9.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 64 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.08
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.475 / 0.488
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.70 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.09 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
- Average freeboard: 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 169.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 72.5 %
Waterplane Area: 12,192 Square feet or 1,133 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 89 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 65 lbs/sq ft or 319 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.01
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Miscellaneous weight:
4 450 mm / 6.3 meter single shot deck mounted fixed torpedo tubes.
1905 Corvettev2, Colonial Navy KK laid down 1905
Displacement:
3,904 t light; 4,029 t standard; 4,820 t normal; 5,452 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(410.11 ft / 410.11 ft) x 46.59 ft x (19.03 / 20.82 ft)
(125.00 m / 125.00 m) x 14.20 m x (5.80 / 6.35 m)
Armament:
2 - 4.13" / 105 mm 40.0 cal guns - 33.85lbs / 15.35kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 4.13" / 105 mm 40.0 cal guns - 33.84lbs / 15.35kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
1 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal gun - 1.48lbs / 0.67kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1905 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 340 lbs / 154 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 0.98" / 25 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 27,065 shp / 20,190 Kw = 26.00 kts
Range 5,400nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,423 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
288 - 375
Cost:
£0.467 million / $1.866 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 54 tons, 1.1 %
- Guns: 54 tons, 1.1 %
Armour: 289 tons, 6.0 %
- Armament: 45 tons, 0.9 %
- Armour Deck: 226 tons, 4.7 %
- Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,231 tons, 46.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,327 tons, 27.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 915 tons, 19.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 3 tons, 0.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 3 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,605 lbs / 1,182 Kg = 73.8 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.81
Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 9.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.06
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.464 / 0.480
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 12.30 ft / 3.75 m, 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 12.30 ft / 3.75 m, 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 12.30 ft / 3.75 m, 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 12.30 ft / 3.75 m, 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
- Average freeboard: 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 153.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.3 %
Waterplane Area: 12,331 Square feet or 1,146 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 68 lbs/sq ft or 334 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.37
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Miscellaneous weight:
4 450 mm / 6.3 meter single shot deck mounted fixed torpedo tubes.
How dangerous are deck mounted torpedoes to the ships carrying them? I know that the propellent of Japanese oxygen torpedoes alone was enough to cause massive damage to the cruisers carrying them if damaged in combat, but they had an exotic propellent system. Are standard torpedoes safe enough to be carried by ships not specifically designed for torpedo attacks?
On the frigates: the belts fitted (for those ships with belts) are very short, resulting in little protected volume. They're thick enough to be good protection against fairly good sized shells, but they're so short vertically that they won't get hit very often. Also, I find the layout of the 90m guns (all on centerline at deck height) dubious: between the bow guns and superstructure, where's there going to be room for all of these?
Or are the belts supposed to be part of a protected cruiser arrangement? If so, they should be labeled as "upper belt", per the rules, and while the ships machinery will be well protected, the unprotected hull above the waterline will be very vulnerable to damage.
Quote from: KWorld on July 03, 2012, 03:57:14 AM
On the frigates: the belts fitted (for those ships with belts) are very short, resulting in little protected volume. They're thick enough to be good protection against fairly good sized shells, but they're so short vertically that they won't get hit very often. Also, I find the layout of the 90m guns (all on centerline at deck height) dubious: between the bow guns and superstructure, where's there going to be room for all of these?
Or are the belts supposed to be part of a protected cruiser arrangement? If so, they should be labeled as "upper belt", per the rules, and while the ships machinery will be well protected, the unprotected hull above the waterline will be very vulnerable to damage.
These are supposed to be protected cruisers, I just put the armor in the wrong place. The reason for the armor arrangement is that carrying a conventional belt is tonnage heavy. I could put one on but the speed would be too slow for its role and more vulnerable to the larger ships it could previously outrun. Once oil firing is allowed there won't be coal to use as extra "armor" and the reduced fuel tonnage will allow me to have a proper armor belt.
With the 90 mm guns, there is indeed a mistake there. The two deck mounted guns were intended to be aft mounted when the frigate designs had the two 7.5 inch guns in a single fore turret. There is not really any room with single turrets fore and aft. As for the other 90 mm guns, they were supposed to be mounted in the upperworks (the 37 mm is supposed to be as well, but it might actually be able to fit), but I forgot that light cruisers do not have such extensive upperworks suitable for mounting guns (the frigates basically being large light cruisers). Since this ship is fast do you think it would be safe to eliminate the 90 mm guns because the frigates are closer in speed to them and able to outrun them in anything worse than perfect conditions (that and I have no room for them)?
Belt armor IS weight-expensive, but it has the useful effect of keeping the shells OUT of the hull, rather than letting them into the hull and trying to limit how much damage they can cause. Historically, the 1880s-1890s seem ot have been the hey-day of the protected cruiser design, with designers switching back to armored belts sometime in the late-1890s to mid 1900s. So historically the change was made before the switch (in general) to oil fuel, but that's no reason that you have to do so.
Historically, you're probably OK with dropping the 90mms. My light cruiser designs have a mix of 150mm & 100mm guns, but they don't carry 8 150mms on the beams.
Quote from: KWorld on July 03, 2012, 03:13:56 PM
Belt armor IS weight-expensive, but it has the useful effect of keeping the shells OUT of the hull, rather than letting them into the hull and trying to limit how much damage they can cause. Historically, the 1880s-1890s seem ot have been the hey-day of the protected cruiser design, with designers switching back to armored belts sometime in the late-1890s to mid 1900s. So historically the change was made before the switch (in general) to oil fuel, but that's no reason that you have to do so.
Historically, you're probably OK with dropping the 90mms. My light cruiser designs have a mix of 150mm & 100mm guns, but they don't carry 8 150mms on the beams.
Dropping the 90 mm guns has actually fixed that problem. The former protected frigates can now carry conventional belt armor, and the former unprotected frigates can now carry (some) protected cruiser style armor. I guess the big question is if a 25 mm thick protected cruiser arrangement is worth much at all in defense or if the weight would be better going towards speed.
Also, what do you think of my corvettes?
On the subject of a 25mm deck: keep in mind that at this time all it's really trying to protect against is shell fragments, there's no real way for naval guns to hit deck armor at this time period, the mounts don't elevate high enough for it to happen. (OK, coast defence mortars can and will hit your deck armor, but no cruiser built will withstand a 12" AP mortar shell).
The corvettes....... well, they don't seem very well armed or protected for their size, and their speed isn't anything special. I fear they'd be not too difficult a target for DDs (the 1905s are better, because of their speed).
To avoid creating a wall of text here are the revised 1897 frigate and corvette designs as a general example of what the ships look like now:
1897 Frigatev2, Colonial Navy FF laid down 1897
Displacement:
4,936 t light; 5,141 t standard; 6,000 t normal; 6,688 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(405.51 ft / 405.51 ft) x 52.00 ft x (21.00 / 22.75 ft)
(123.60 m / 123.60 m) x 15.85 m x (6.40 / 6.93 m)
Armament:
2 - 7.48" / 190 mm 40.0 cal guns - 198.42lbs / 90.00kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1897 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1897 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
1 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal gun - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1897 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 1,103 lbs / 500 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 405.51 ft / 123.60 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 4.92" / 125 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.57" / 40 mm
Forecastle: 1.57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 13,657 ihp / 10,188 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 5,400nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,546 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
340 - 443
Cost:
£0.553 million / $2.212 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 205 tons, 3.4 %
- Guns: 205 tons, 3.4 %
Armour: 954 tons, 15.9 %
- Belts: 363 tons, 6.1 %
- Armament: 146 tons, 2.4 %
- Armour Deck: 403 tons, 6.7 %
- Conning Tower: 42 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 2,239 tons, 37.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,537 tons, 25.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,065 tons, 17.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,510 lbs / 1,592 Kg = 16.8 x 7.5 " / 190 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.53
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 11.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.17
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.474 / 0.488
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.14 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 131.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75.7 %
Waterplane Area: 13,731 Square feet or 1,276 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 81 lbs/sq ft or 394 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.24
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
1897 Frigate Protected, Colonial Navy FF laid down 1897
Displacement:
4,936 t light; 5,141 t standard; 6,000 t normal; 6,688 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(405.51 ft / 405.51 ft) x 52.00 ft x (21.00 / 22.75 ft)
(123.60 m / 123.60 m) x 15.85 m x (6.40 / 6.93 m)
Armament:
2 - 7.48" / 190 mm 40.0 cal guns - 198.42lbs / 90.00kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1897 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1897 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
1 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal gun - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1897 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 1,103 lbs / 500 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Upper: 0.98" / 25 mm 405.51 ft / 123.60 m 5.00 ft / 1.53 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 4.92" / 125 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 0.98" / 25 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 16,460 ihp / 12,279 Kw = 22.04 kts
Range 5,400nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,546 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
340 - 443
Cost:
£0.617 million / $2.469 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 205 tons, 3.4 %
- Guns: 205 tons, 3.4 %
Armour: 492 tons, 8.2 %
- Belts: 74 tons, 1.2 %
- Armament: 146 tons, 2.4 %
- Armour Deck: 252 tons, 4.2 %
- Conning Tower: 21 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,698 tons, 45.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,539 tons, 25.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,065 tons, 17.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,600 lbs / 1,180 Kg = 12.4 x 7.5 " / 190 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.66
Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 10.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.474 / 0.488
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.14 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 156.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75.7 %
Waterplane Area: 13,731 Square feet or 1,276 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 81 lbs/sq ft or 394 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.23
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Armor in protected cruiser configuration.
1897 Corvette Light Weight, Colonial Navy KK laid down 1897
Displacement:
3,481 t light; 3,595 t standard; 4,310 t normal; 4,882 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(367.45 ft / 367.45 ft) x 36.75 ft x (21.00 / 23.16 ft)
(112.00 m / 112.00 m) x 11.20 m x (6.40 / 7.06 m)
Armament:
2 - 4.13" / 105 mm 40.0 cal guns - 33.07lbs / 15.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 4.13" / 105 mm 40.0 cal guns - 33.07lbs / 15.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
1 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal gun - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1897 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 332 lbs / 151 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 367.45 ft / 112.00 m 5.00 ft / 1.53 m
Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 0.98" / 25 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 13,823 ihp / 10,312 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 5,400nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,287 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
265 - 345
Cost:
£0.448 million / $1.791 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 47 tons, 1.1 %
- Guns: 47 tons, 1.1 %
Armour: 274 tons, 6.4 %
- Belts: 67 tons, 1.6 %
- Armament: 21 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 170 tons, 3.9 %
- Conning Tower: 17 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,223 tons, 51.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 933 tons, 21.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 829 tons, 19.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 3 tons, 0.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 3 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,471 lbs / 667 Kg = 41.6 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.63
Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 9.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.06
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.532 / 0.546
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.17 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
- Average freeboard: 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 170.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 60.1 %
Waterplane Area: 9,267 Square feet or 861 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 87 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 60 lbs/sq ft or 291 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.23
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Miscellaneous weight:
4 450 mm / 6.3 meter single shot deck mounted fixed torpedo tubes.
Armor in protected cruiser configuration.
The corvette looks like it's trying to simulate one of the HSF light cruisers, by the armament, but it's the size of the later Magdeburg class. Also, it seems very deep for it's size, you might try reducing the draft a bit, see what happens.
Quote from: KWorld on July 04, 2012, 05:01:32 AM
The corvette looks like it's trying to simulate one of the HSF light cruisers, by the armament, but it's the size of the later Magdeburg class. Also, it seems very deep for it's size, you might try reducing the draft a bit, see what happens.
Well, keep in mind that this corvette is also going a little bit faster and has protected cruiser armor as well. Getting those extra few knots in speed increase the tonnage of the design by a good bit (with a top speed of 19 knots, around that of historical German cruisers, it has a composite strength of 1.96). I ended up with the fairly deep draught because it turned out to be the only way I could produce a lighter ship. Lengthening the ship, increasing its beam, and increasing its block coefficent produced heavier designs than what I started with (the previous 1897 design).
There will be a smaller class of cruisers in my navy (the sloops) that will have a lower speed and size for colonial use and convoy escort.
Since we have no colonies at game start, I'm not certain you'll need ships for "colonial service and convoy escort" duties.
HSF light cruiser speeds vary on the source and when the speed was taken: according to http://www.german-navy.de/hochseeflotte/ships/smallcruiser/gazelle/tech.html (http://www.german-navy.de/hochseeflotte/ships/smallcruiser/gazelle/tech.html), SMS Gazelle had a speed of 20.2 knots, on a maximum displacement of under 3000 tons. SMS Magdeburg had a speed of 27.6 knots, with both deck and belt armor.
I note again, DF that speed cost very much in weight...
Jef ;)
Quote from: Jefgte on July 20, 2012, 05:57:27 PM
I note again, DF that speed cost very much in weight...
Jef ;)
I am probably going to have the majority of my cruisers drop down to 21 knots, with advances in machinery (and thus more free weight) going towards better armor and armament. I will have a few scouting cruisers for the fleet built specifically for high speeds.
Having now sat down and designed ships for the World War I era, I also must say that I can see why many nations adopted such a conservative approach to ship design such as forgoing battlecruisers for modern armored cruiser type designs. Even with turbines speed is quite expensive. The only issue is that battlecruisers have such an advantage over armored cruisers in armament and dreadnoughts in speed that once someone decides to make one you have to respond with similar ships. That said, I still think that battlecruisers are a very good weapons system for wealthier countries. It is just that for the cost of a battlecruiser you can get a dreadnought and most of an armored cruiser. That and their heyday is only between around 1910 and 1920. Before that they are far too expensive for their tonnage, and afterwards the fast battleship offers a far more balanced design.
I have three torpedo boat designs now. The 500 ton torpedo boat and torpedo boat killer use the same hull, the difference is that the TBK has a 115 mm gun instead of two 90 mm guns to provide more fire support.
Torpedo Boat Model 1895, Colonial Navy TB laid down 1895
Displacement:
397 t light; 410 t standard; 500 t normal; 572 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(230.31 ft / 230.31 ft) x 19.19 ft x (9.84 / 10.77 ft)
(70.20 m / 70.20 m) x 5.85 m x (3.00 / 3.28 m)
Armament:
2 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 400 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 46 lbs / 21 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5,762 ihp / 4,299 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 360nm at 24.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 162 tons (100% coal)
Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery
Complement:
52 - 68
Cost:
£0.057 million / $0.227 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 7 tons, 1.3 %
- Guns: 7 tons, 1.3 %
Armour: 5 tons, 1.0 %
- Armament: 4 tons, 0.7 %
- Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 291 tons, 58.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 94 tons, 18.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 102 tons, 20.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1 tons, 0.2 %
- On freeboard deck: 1 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
96 lbs / 43 Kg = 4.3 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.66
Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 8.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.11
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.05
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.402 / 0.420
Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 9.68 ft / 2.95 m, 8.04 ft / 2.45 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 8.04 ft / 2.45 m, 6.40 ft / 1.95 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 6.40 ft / 1.95 m, 6.40 ft / 1.95 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 6.40 ft / 1.95 m, 6.40 ft / 1.95 m
- Average freeboard: 7.22 ft / 2.20 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 191.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 67.9 %
Waterplane Area: 2,724 Square feet or 253 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 25 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 18 lbs/sq ft or 89 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 0.95
- Overall: 0.53
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Adjusted trial speed of 27.5 knots.
Miscellaneous weight:
2 400 mm / 5.6 meter single shot deck mounted fixed torpedo tubes.
Torpedo Boat Killer Model 1895, Colonial Navy TBK laid down 1895
Displacement:
397 t light; 410 t standard; 500 t normal; 572 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(230.31 ft / 230.31 ft) x 19.19 ft x (9.84 / 10.77 ft)
(70.20 m / 70.20 m) x 5.85 m x (3.00 / 3.28 m)
Armament:
1 - 4.53" / 115 mm 40.0 cal gun - 44.09lbs / 20.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1895 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
3 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 400 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 47 lbs / 21 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5,762 ihp / 4,299 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 360nm at 24.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 162 tons (100% coal)
Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery
Complement:
52 - 68
Cost:
£0.057 million / $0.227 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 7 tons, 1.4 %
- Guns: 7 tons, 1.4 %
Armour: 5 tons, 1.1 %
- Armament: 4 tons, 0.8 %
- Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 291 tons, 58.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 93 tons, 18.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 102 tons, 20.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1 tons, 0.2 %
- On freeboard deck: 1 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
95 lbs / 43 Kg = 2.0 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.66
Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 8.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.11
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.05
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.402 / 0.420
Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 9.68 ft / 2.95 m, 8.04 ft / 2.45 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 8.04 ft / 2.45 m, 6.40 ft / 1.95 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 6.40 ft / 1.95 m, 6.40 ft / 1.95 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 6.40 ft / 1.95 m, 6.40 ft / 1.95 m
- Average freeboard: 7.22 ft / 2.20 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 191.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 67.9 %
Waterplane Area: 2,724 Square feet or 253 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 25 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 18 lbs/sq ft or 88 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 0.94
- Overall: 0.53
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Adjusted trial speed of 27.5 knots.
Miscellaneous weight:
2 400 mm / 5.6 meter single shot deck mounted fixed torpedo tubes.
Torpedo Boat Model 1895 Light, Colonial Navy TBL laid down 1895
Displacement:
210 t light; 215 t standard; 250 t normal; 278 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(209.97 ft / 209.97 ft) x 17.55 ft x (6.25 / 6.69 ft)
(64.00 m / 64.00 m) x 5.35 m x (1.91 / 2.04 m)
Armament:
3 - 1.06" / 27.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 2 lbs / 1 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.30" / 8 mm - -
- Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3,809 ihp / 2,841 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 210nm at 24.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 63 tons (100% coal)
Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery
Complement:
30 - 40
Cost:
£0.029 million / $0.115 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1 tons, 0.2 %
- Guns: 1 tons, 0.2 %
Armour: 3 tons, 1.4 %
- Armament: 3 tons, 1.1 %
- Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 152 tons, 60.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 53 tons, 21.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 40 tons, 16.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1 tons, 0.3 %
- On freeboard deck: 1 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
51 lbs / 23 Kg = 84.5 x 1.1 " / 27 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.73
Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 7.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 47 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.75
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.380 / 0.395
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.96 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14.49 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 4.92 ft / 1.50 m, 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 4.92 ft / 1.50 m, 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
- Average freeboard: 5.74 ft / 1.75 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 196.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75.8 %
Waterplane Area: 2,239 Square feet or 208 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 19 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 14 lbs/sq ft or 71 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 0.55
- Overall: 0.50
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather
Adjusted trial speed of 30 knots.
Mount gun armor is 7.5 mm, program rounds it to 8 mm.
Miscellaneous weight:
2 400 mm / 5.6 meter single shot deck mounted fixed torpedo tubes.
With your two larger boats, I'd seriously look at adding some more ammunition. Guns of that size will be able to fire at least 12-15 rounds per minute, so with your current loadouts, their deck lockers will run dry in 5.5 minutes and there's nothing to refill them.
Related to that, I was wondering if it would be possible for the 90 mm guns to switch positions with the autocannons to be side mounted en echelon style. Is the boat too small and fragile to deal with the blast effects of cannons firing over the length of the boat?
I wouldn't think that fragility will be a big problem, we're talking about pretty small guns here and the recoil system HAS been invented. The problem I foresee is that where are you going to put them that they'd have that sort of an arc of fire, where they're not in the way of your torpedoes, and aren't prone to getting their crews washed over the side? Take a look here http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_4-50_mk9_pics.htm (http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_4-50_mk9_pics.htm) for how some mounts were installed on four-pipers and then moved to better locations: your ship is a LOT smaller than a four-piper...... I'd suggest that you don't have the beam to cross-deck, if for no other reason than that you can't crew the gun with the muzzle pointed the wrong way.
Dropped 25 miles from the range of the 500 ton boats and gave each main gun 250 rounds and each autocannon 1000 rounds. I decided not to change armament placement since it is better to have all weapons work well at their respective areas, especially since the target should be in front of the boat for only a few minutes at most.
Hard to say how long the target will be in front of the bow, a lot depends on initial range, target's relative course, and their speed. Keep in mind that your fish would realistically have a range of no more than 1000m or so, early small torpedoes were very short legged and while the currently posted torpedo rules give them a lot longer reach, Carth has said he's going to revise them.
Is this design reasonable for 1900, or is it closer to a 1950s Soviet torpedo boat?
Torpedo Boat Model 1900, Colonial Navy TB laid down 1900
Displacement:
403 t light; 421 t standard; 500 t normal; 563 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(236.22 ft / 236.22 ft) x 19.69 ft x (9.84 / 10.62 ft)
(72.00 m / 72.00 m) x 6.00 m x (3.00 / 3.24 m)
Armament:
2 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 46 lbs / 21 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6,132 ihp / 4,574 Kw = 24.50 kts
Range 343nm at 24.50 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 142 tons (90% coal)
Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery
Complement:
52 - 68
Cost:
£0.057 million / $0.226 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 7 tons, 1.3 %
- Guns: 7 tons, 1.3 %
Armour: 5 tons, 1.0 %
- Armament: 4 tons, 0.7 %
- Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 289 tons, 57.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 97 tons, 19.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 96 tons, 19.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 6 tons, 1.2 %
- On freeboard deck: 6 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
92 lbs / 42 Kg = 4.2 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.38
Metacentric height 0.8 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 9.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.07
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.382 / 0.399
Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.37 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 9.84 ft / 3.00 m, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 8.20 ft / 2.50 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m, 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Average freeboard: 7.38 ft / 2.25 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 191.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 63.8 %
Waterplane Area: 2,828 Square feet or 263 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 26 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 18 lbs/sq ft or 88 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.51
- Longitudinal: 0.99
- Overall: 0.55
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Adjusted trial speed of 28 knots.
Miscellaneous weight:
8 450 mm / 6.3 meter single shot deck mounted side rotating torpedo tubes. One 2 x 2 torpedo rack port and starboard.
Guns seem fine, though you might want to change them to quick firing since a 90mm gun doesn't need 2-piece rounds. Speed's kind of low for the role, especially when it starts getting rough. The torpedoes themselves seem too long for the period.
Also, running SS and looking in the distribution of weights, your torpedo weight is only half of what it should be if they're side rotating tubes (allowing you to fire at multiple angles), those would weigh 12 tons. If, instead, you're using fixed tubes, the weight is 7 tons.
Quote from: KWorld on July 25, 2012, 06:47:40 AM
Also, running SS and looking in the distribution of weights, your torpedo weight is only a third of what it should be if they're side rotating tubes (allowing you to fire at multiple angles), those would weigh 18 tons. If, instead, you're using fixed tubes, the weight is 11 tons. Not sure where 6 tons comes from, even the weight that appears on the Weapons page (and doesn't include everything) shows me 8.881 tons.
Do I just have to extrapolate the changes in weights on the summary page? I have been using the weights listed under the weapons page and it makes a lot of sense now as to why those weights never changed when I changed tube type.
Quote from: Delta Force on July 25, 2012, 12:03:52 PM
Quote from: KWorld on July 25, 2012, 06:47:40 AM
Also, running SS and looking in the distribution of weights, your torpedo weight is only a third of what it should be if they're side rotating tubes (allowing you to fire at multiple angles), those would weigh 18 tons. If, instead, you're using fixed tubes, the weight is 11 tons. Not sure where 6 tons comes from, even the weight that appears on the Weapons page (and doesn't include everything) shows me 8.881 tons.
Do I just have to extrapolate the changes in weights on the summary page? I have been using the weights listed under the weapons page and it makes a lot of sense now as to why those weights never changed when I changed tube type.
What you do is create the design with the torpedoes that you want in the Weapons page entries (number of tubes, type of tubes, reloads, etc). Then make the report and look in the Distribution of weights at normal displacement, it will show an entry for weapons. Put that weight into the appropriate area of miscellaneous weight, delete the torpedoes from the weapons page, and add comments to the report to explain what you have mounted that doesn't show up in the normal places on the ship report.
Okay, found it. How do you get weights past the decimal place from the report though?
Quote from: Delta Force on July 25, 2012, 12:28:16 PM
Okay, found it. How do you get weights past the decimal place from the report though?
You don't, as far was I know.
New revised torpedo boats. The hull dimensions (except freeboard) are the same because apparently it is the optimum shape for ships in their speed range.
Torpedo Boat Model 1900v2, Colonial Navy TB laid down 1900
Displacement:
419 t light; 437 t standard; 500 t normal; 550 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(251.97 ft / 251.97 ft) x 21.00 ft x (8.65 / 9.19 ft)
(76.80 m / 76.80 m) x 6.40 m x (2.64 / 2.80 m)
Armament:
2 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 46 lbs / 21 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,798 ihp / 6,563 Kw = 27.00 kts
Range 300nm at 24.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 114 tons (90% coal)
Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery
Complement:
52 - 68
Cost:
£0.059 million / $0.237 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 7 tons, 1.3 %
- Guns: 7 tons, 1.3 %
Armour: 5 tons, 1.0 %
- Armament: 4 tons, 0.7 %
- Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 304 tons, 60.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 100 tons, 20.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 80 tons, 16.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 4 tons, 0.8 %
- On freeboard deck: 4 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
90 lbs / 41 Kg = 4.0 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.54
Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 8.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.09
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.76
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.383 / 0.396
Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 9.51 ft / 2.90 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m, 6.23 ft / 1.90 m
- Average freeboard: 7.05 ft / 2.15 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 200.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 73.1 %
Waterplane Area: 3,219 Square feet or 299 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 18 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 19 lbs/sq ft or 91 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.51
- Longitudinal: 0.68
- Overall: 0.53
Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather
Adjusted trial speed of 30.5 knots.
Miscellaneous weight:
4 450 mm / 5.1 meter single shot deck mounted side rotating torpedo tubes. One twin torpedo rack port and starboard.
Torpedo Boat Model 1905v2, Colonial Navy TB laid down 1905
Displacement:
424 t light; 441 t standard; 500 t normal; 547 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(251.97 ft / 251.97 ft) x 21.00 ft x (8.65 / 9.15 ft)
(76.80 m / 76.80 m) x 6.40 m x (2.64 / 2.79 m)
Armament:
2 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 21.32lbs / 9.67kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.48lbs / 0.67kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 46 lbs / 21 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11,434 ihp / 8,530 Kw = 28.75 kts
Range 300nm at 24.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 105 tons (90% coal)
Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery
Complement:
52 - 68
Cost:
£0.059 million / $0.235 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 7 tons, 1.3 %
- Guns: 7 tons, 1.3 %
Armour: 5 tons, 1.0 %
- Armament: 4 tons, 0.7 %
- Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 299 tons, 59.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 110 tons, 21.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 76 tons, 15.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 4 tons, 0.8 %
- On freeboard deck: 4 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
96 lbs / 43 Kg = 4.3 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.48
Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 9.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.10
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.76
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.383 / 0.395
Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 10.17 ft / 3.10 m, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m, 6.89 ft / 2.10 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 6.89 ft / 2.10 m, 6.89 ft / 2.10 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 6.89 ft / 2.10 m, 6.89 ft / 2.10 m
- Average freeboard: 7.71 ft / 2.35 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 197.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 80.3 %
Waterplane Area: 3,219 Square feet or 299 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 21 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 19 lbs/sq ft or 94 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 0.88
- Overall: 0.52
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather
Adjusted trial speed of 32 knots.
Miscellaneous weight:
4 450 mm / 5.1 meter single shot deck mounted side rotating torpedo tubes. One twin torpedo rack port and starboard.
Being as long as possible and as narrow as possible is good for some things, certainly. Not so good for how the ship will handle heavy storms, but it does make it easier to make them fast.
Quote from: KWorld on July 25, 2012, 06:34:29 PM
Being as long as possible and as narrow as possible is good for some things, certainly. Not so good for how the ship will handle heavy storms, but it does make it easier to make them fast.
Definitely. I was planning on making my torpedo boats and destroyers very seaworthy, but in order to get them to reach the speeds they need without oil fired boilers they will have to sacrifice their ability to operate in heavy seas. That is not such a problem for the torpedo boats as they will not be operating too far from land anyways, but I will need to find where to strike the right balance with the destroyers.
Thoughts on the 1000 ton destroyer? It may not be as fast as the torpedo boats of the navy, but it is a lot more seaworthy. The biggest flaw of the ship is that it has only around half the range of the larger ships in the fleet.
Destroyer Model 1900 1000 Ton, Colonial Navy DD laid down 1900
Displacement:
819 t light; 847 t standard; 1,000 t normal; 1,123 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(295.28 ft / 295.28 ft) x 24.61 ft x (10.66 / 11.59 ft)
(90.00 m / 90.00 m) x 7.50 m x (3.25 / 3.53 m)
Armament:
2 - 4.53" / 115 mm 40.0 cal guns - 44.09lbs / 20.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 90 lbs / 41 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
- Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9,949 ihp / 7,422 Kw = 25.25 kts
Range 3,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 276 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
88 - 115
Cost:
£0.119 million / $0.477 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 13 tons, 1.3 %
- Guns: 13 tons, 1.3 %
Armour: 6 tons, 0.6 %
- Armament: 4 tons, 0.4 %
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 619 tons, 61.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 178 tons, 17.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 181 tons, 18.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 4 tons, 0.4 %
- On freeboard deck: 4 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
184 lbs / 84 Kg = 4.0 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.73
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 8.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.12
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.27
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.452 / 0.467
Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 11.98 ft / 3.65 m, 10.33 ft / 3.15 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 10.33 ft / 3.15 m, 8.69 ft / 2.65 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 8.69 ft / 2.65 m, 8.69 ft / 2.65 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 8.69 ft / 2.65 m, 8.69 ft / 2.65 m
- Average freeboard: 9.51 ft / 2.90 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 203.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 87.2 %
Waterplane Area: 4,642 Square feet or 431 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 32 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 21 lbs/sq ft or 103 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 0.84
- Overall: 0.53
Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Adjusted trial speed of 26.5 knots.
Miscellaneous weight:
4 450 mm / 5.1 meter single shot deck mounted side rotating torpedo tubes. One twin torpedo rack port and starboard.
Myself, I'd trade some of that seakeeping for more speed, but then, I figure a DD can never have too much speed. Period destroyers DON'T have long ranges, so that's perfectly acceptable. I might also look at lowering the length to beam ratio on this one, if it's got a range of 3000 miles, it may have to go out into the big water, and that 12:1 isn't good in the big waves.
Ironically the drag increases so much by reducing the length to beam ratio that the ship ends up significantly less seaworthy even on a heavier tonnage. It has higher seaworthiness because of the lower drag as opposed to through the stability of a wider ship.
Some oceangoing swift ships. The CS is intended to scout for fleet actions and provide much needed fire support to the smaller swift ships.
1905 Scout Cruiser, Colonial Navy CS laid down 1905
Displacement:
2,885 t light; 2,990 t standard; 3,430 t normal; 3,781 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(380.58 ft / 380.58 ft) x 38.06 ft x (18.04 / 19.37 ft)
(116.00 m / 116.00 m) x 11.60 m x (5.50 / 5.90 m)
Armament:
2 - 4.53" / 115 mm 40.0 cal guns - 44.09lbs / 20.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 4.53" / 115 mm 40.0 cal guns - 44.09lbs / 20.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
1 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal gun - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1905 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 442 lbs / 200 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
5th: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 22,276 shp / 16,618 Kw = 26.00 kts
Range 3,600nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 791 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
223 - 291
Cost:
£0.370 million / $1.481 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 71 tons, 2.1 %
- Guns: 71 tons, 2.1 %
Armour: 41 tons, 1.2 %
- Armament: 27 tons, 0.8 %
- Conning Tower: 14 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,760 tons, 51.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,009 tons, 29.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 545 tons, 15.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 4 tons, 0.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 4 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,408 lbs / 639 Kg = 30.3 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.47
Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 10.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.25
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.459 / 0.472
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.51 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 172.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 104.4 %
Waterplane Area: 9,310 Square feet or 865 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 87 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 62 lbs/sq ft or 303 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.77
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Miscellaneous weight:
4 450 mm / 5.1 meter single shot deck mounted side rotating torpedo tubes. One twin torpedo rack port and starboard.
1905 Scout Cruiser 26.5 Knots, Colonial Navy CS laid down 1905
Displacement:
3,247 t light; 3,361 t standard; 3,830 t normal; 4,206 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(400.26 ft / 400.26 ft) x 40.03 ft x (18.04 / 19.32 ft)
(122.00 m / 122.00 m) x 12.20 m x (5.50 / 5.89 m)
Armament:
2 - 4.53" / 115 mm 40.0 cal guns - 44.09lbs / 20.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 4.53" / 115 mm 40.0 cal guns - 44.09lbs / 20.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
1 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal gun - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1905 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 442 lbs / 200 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
5th: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 25,234 shp / 18,825 Kw = 26.50 kts
Range 3,600nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 845 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
243 - 316
Cost:
£0.418 million / $1.673 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 71 tons, 1.8 %
- Guns: 71 tons, 1.8 %
Armour: 42 tons, 1.1 %
- Armament: 27 tons, 0.7 %
- Conning Tower: 16 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,013 tons, 52.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,118 tons, 29.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 583 tons, 15.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 4 tons, 0.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 4 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,536 lbs / 697 Kg = 33.1 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.53
Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 10.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.18
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.18
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.464 / 0.476
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.01 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Forward deck: 50.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Aft deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 175.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106.3 %
Waterplane Area: 10,337 Square feet or 960 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 87 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 64 lbs/sq ft or 313 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.54
- Overall: 1.00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Miscellaneous weight:
4 450 mm / 5.1 meter single shot deck mounted side rotating torpedo tubes. One twin torpedo rack port and starboard.
Destroyer Leader Model 1905 1250 Ton, Colonial Navy DDL laid down 1905
Displacement:
977 t light; 1,010 t standard; 1,250 t normal; 1,442 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(328.74 ft / 328.74 ft) x 27.40 ft x (11.48 / 12.68 ft)
(100.20 m / 100.20 m) x 8.35 m x (3.50 / 3.86 m)
Armament:
2 - 4.53" / 115 mm 40.0 cal guns - 44.09lbs / 20.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 90 lbs / 41 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 14,116 shp / 10,530 Kw = 27.00 kts
Range 3,600nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 432 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
104 - 136
Cost:
£0.139 million / $0.555 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 13 tons, 1.0 %
- Guns: 13 tons, 1.0 %
Armour: 4 tons, 0.3 %
- Armament: 4 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 719 tons, 57.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 234 tons, 18.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 273 tons, 21.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 8 tons, 0.6 %
- On freeboard deck: 8 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
275 lbs / 125 Kg = 5.9 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.75
Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 8.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.09
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.423 / 0.442
Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.13 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 12.63 ft / 3.85 m, 10.99 ft / 3.35 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 10.99 ft / 3.35 m, 9.35 ft / 2.85 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 9.35 ft / 2.85 m, 9.35 ft / 2.85 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.35 ft / 2.85 m, 9.35 ft / 2.85 m
- Average freeboard: 10.17 ft / 3.10 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 188.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 96.7 %
Waterplane Area: 5,626 Square feet or 523 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 53 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 23 lbs/sq ft or 113 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 0.78
- Overall: 0.53
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Adjusted trial speed of 28 knots.
Miscellaneous weight:
8 450 mm / 5.1 meter single shot deck mounted side rotating torpedo tubes. One 2 x 2 torpedo rack port and starboard.
Destroyer Model 1905 1000 Ton, Colonial Navy DD laid down 1905
Displacement:
798 t light; 826 t standard; 1,000 t normal; 1,140 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(295.28 ft / 295.28 ft) x 24.61 ft x (10.66 / 11.72 ft)
(90.00 m / 90.00 m) x 7.50 m x (3.25 / 3.57 m)
Armament:
2 - 4.53" / 115 mm 40.0 cal guns - 44.09lbs / 20.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 90 lbs / 41 kg
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 12,115 shp / 9,038 Kw = 26.50 kts
Range 3,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 314 tons (90% coal)
Complement:
88 - 115
Cost:
£0.111 million / $0.443 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 13 tons, 1.3 %
- Guns: 13 tons, 1.3 %
Armour: 4 tons, 0.4 %
- Armament: 4 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 563 tons, 56.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 210 tons, 21.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 203 tons, 20.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 8 tons, 0.8 %
- On freeboard deck: 8 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
242 lbs / 110 Kg = 5.2 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.57
Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 9.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.25
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.452 / 0.469
Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25.00 %, 12.63 ft / 3.85 m, 10.99 ft / 3.35 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 10.99 ft / 3.35 m, 9.35 ft / 2.85 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 9.35 ft / 2.85 m, 9.35 ft / 2.85 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.35 ft / 2.85 m, 9.35 ft / 2.85 m
- Average freeboard: 10.17 ft / 3.10 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 185.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93.5 %
Waterplane Area: 4,642 Square feet or 431 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 49 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 24 lbs/sq ft or 115 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.54
- Longitudinal: 1.14
- Overall: 0.58
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Adjusted trial speed of 28 knots.
Miscellaneous weight:
8 450 mm / 5.1 meter single shot deck mounted side rotating torpedo tubes. One 2 x 2 torpedo rack port and starboard.
To scout the Fleet, she must have the Fleet range...
The last Fleet DD3 class (1908-1250t) of NF had the classic 5000nm@12kts
Jef
The scout cruisers are really just destroyer leaders, since they don't much of any armor (shields only). Given that, having range similar to DDs seems reasonable to me.
Quote from: KWorld on July 31, 2012, 06:03:35 AM
The scout cruisers are really just destroyer leaders, since they don't much of any armor (shields only). Given that, having range similar to DDs seems reasonable to me.
I already have more traditional destroyer leaders (the 1,250 ton designs), these are intended to act as flagships for large groups of destroyers and provide heavy fire support for them. They can also be used independently for short range scouting duties (making a longer range ship of high speed produces a nearly 5,000 ton ship with little or no armor). I traded range for smaller size because to get a range of 5,400 miles or higher would make it a huge unarmored target.
The design is based on the scout cruisers of the early 1900s, but since oil is not allowed it means the concept is a lot more valid than historically. The real life designs were several knots slower than the destroyers they were supposed to escort, this design is only 1.5 knots slower in calm seas and 0.50 knots slower in heavy seas.