www.navalism.org

Well, I had a bit of time and made Civ IV with this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=371842) mapscript chew on a few maps. Note that these maps are unmodified in any way from what the mapscript originally turned out. I will tweek later after my temporaty bout of insanity ermm, when my final exams are finished. Also note that I used a third party program to get these images, and any final map would be cleaner and more detailed.

World One
(http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af96/bikefish2/Navalism%20Maps/WorldOne.png)
A world that has few deep oceans but lots of shallower seas and naval chokepoints. While most of the main landmass is connected, there are several mountainis areas that would make overland travel all but imposible given the local wildlife.

World Two
(http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af96/bikefish2/Navalism%20Maps/WorldTwo.png)
A world that has one large ocean, and several smaller ones. Has several distinct continents.

World Three
(http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af96/bikefish2/Navalism%20Maps/WorldThree.png)
A world that has many shallower seas in lew of deep oceans. Lots of smaller landmasses.

World Four
(http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af96/bikefish2/Navalism%20Maps/WorldFour.png)
A world that has smaller deep oceans, but in greater numbers. Lots of small to medium size landmasses.

Comments?

Now I remember why I don't like the Civ4 map generator. Would it be possible to have a Civ3 map for comparison?

If any of those than map 2. What is their land/water ratio? I think 20/80 or 15/85 would be good.

Quote from: Nobody on December 07, 2011, 04:09:41 PM
Now I remember why I don't like the Civ4 map generator. Would it be possible to have a Civ3 map for comparison?

If any of those than map 2. What is their land/water ratio? I think 20/80 or 15/85 would be good.

Meh- all the Civ map gens have similar problems- they work on rather large units.
It's the Coastline Paradox in action!

It's impossible to get a 'realistic' map out of any kind of generator that isn't in the $10,000 range, because the Coastline Paradox makes the thing look 'clunky.' Unless we get a generator that will measure in the meter-range 1.) the islands will look strange, 2.) things will be 'in the wrong place' 3.) features will be 'out of proportion.'
It's the cheapest, simplest, easiest thing we have to work with- it isn't perfect, but unless you are willing to shell out the money for a fractal generator that is going to consider plate tectonics and small-unit coastline measurements... well, it's what we have to work with!

I will also note that in the game view that Civ IV uses, there is less of a tendance to hardline the coasts. As these are simpily a "do we like X sort or Y sort" of map, I did not feel the need, nor have the time, to take the multitude of screenshots and assemble them into one image to get each map in its actually rendered glory. Any final map that I make will have such done to it if it is a Civ map. Civ III graphics are crap compared to IV and I do not at this time have fractal mapscrips for III.

Indeed, Nobody, if he were to post a local map, you'd see that the terrain is detailed enough that you could actually use it to determine bonuses and penalties due to terrain involvement in land battles.

Those are the gross world map- as I said, the coastline paradox kicks in at that scale.
The smaller scale maps are excellent.
http://static.computergames.ro/cg/assassin/images2/civilization4/civilization4-118.jpg
http://static.computergames.ro/cg/assassin/images2/civilization4/civilization4-115.jpg
http://static.computergames.ro/cg/assassin/images2/civilization4/civilization4-122.jpg
And backing out a little shows good detail, but also general features.
http://static.computergames.ro/cg/assassin/images2/civilization4/civilization4-107.jpg
http://static.computergames.ro/cg/assassin/images2/civilization4/civilization4-106.jpg

I vote for W4 but a mixture of W4 & W2 is probably the better choice.

IMO, closed seas must be small.

- I remember to have play at school with similar map for Naval Action, that was 40 years ago  ::)  on a  paper map.
Destroyers with 2 guns - light cruisers with 3 guns - heavy cruisers with 4 guns - BC with 5 guns - BB with 6 to 8 guns.
At this time, I was young & slim...  ::)

Jef

You both got me wrong, sorry that I was imprecise (in fact I didn't say anything at all).

I don't mid a map made of blocks, an unrealistic look nor do I care about plate tectonics.

What I don't like about the Civ4 map generator is that they deliberate shrank the maps so simplify the game and most importantly that the map generator seems to ignore what I tell him. I'm also in favor of the isometric view of Civ2 & 3.

Carth, are you suggesting to use zoomed in maps for special purposes? That sounds interesting.

Quote from: Nobody on December 08, 2011, 02:47:08 AM
Carth, are you suggesting to use zoomed in maps for special purposes? That sounds interesting.

Not only am I suggesting just that, but also that most of the 'shrinkage' problem that you have can simply be cured by taking small, measured screenshots of the map and then mounting them together, making a large map complete with all the details that you want. Setting the world on the largest setting and then piecing the large map together will fix virtually all the problems that you have mentioned. It will take a little while and be damn big when we're done, but it'll work.

Quote from: Carthaginian on December 08, 2011, 03:04:43 AM
Not only am I suggesting just that, but also that most of the 'shrinkage' problem that you have can simply be cured by taking small, measured screenshots of the map and then mounting them together, making a large map complete with all the details that you want. Setting the world on the largest setting and then piecing the large map together will fix virtually all the problems that you have mentioned.

I did not say that, in fact I like map two - I just think there isn't enough water, hence my question - , and I don't need a highly detailed map either. All you usually need is one that fits onto your screen and gives you an overview.
And no it wouldn't cure any of the problems I have with the civ4 map generator.

This kind of map, more realist

(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/4145/chuvosanusmap.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/chuvosanusmap.png/)

With details like forest, mountains...

(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7019/nusseluanaisland.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/88/nusseluanaisland.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

How draw this kind of map? With Paint

Jef

Testing a paint map for 10 players...

(http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/4955/map2d.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/846/map2d.jpg/)


Jef

...With grid for the distance calculation.


(http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5194/map3p.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/404/map3p.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Jef

Quote from: Nobody on December 08, 2011, 03:36:53 AM

Quote from: Carthaginian on December 08, 2011, 03:04:43 AM
Not only am I suggesting just that, but also that most of the 'shrinkage' problem that you have can simply be cured by taking small, measured screenshots of the map and then mounting them together, making a large map complete with all the details that you want. Setting the world on the largest setting and then piecing the large map together will fix virtually all the problems that you have mentioned.

I did not say that, in fact I like map two - I just think there isn't enough water, hence my question - , and I don't need a highly detailed map either. All you usually need is one that fits onto your screen and gives you an overview.
And no it wouldn't cure any of the problems I have with the civ4 map generator.

AH... now I get it. The we need to look at how we intend to scale things, Nobody- as in how big is each square? We might eventually allow a square to be more than a square mile. They might be 10 sq. mi. or even 100 sq. mi. depending on our needs. The 'local map' given by zooming in would still also be useful for things like attacking cities (which I also thought about), just that we might have to imagine 4-5 mountains in an area where only one is visually.

Quote from: Jefgte on December 08, 2011, 04:06:13 AM
This kind of map, more realist

How draw this kind of map? With Paint

Jef

Jef,
Drawing those maps takes more sweat and tears than any of us are willing to put in ATM! I don't know anyone that is good enough to make a map like that- more realistic or not.

Jef, also note that:

QuoteAlso note that I used a third party program to get these images, and any final map would be cleaner and more detailed.

I have no intent for these to be final maps, just seeing what layouts people like best before I put in the necessary time to assemble a full map. Since I have the settings used saved, I can easly create more examples of a given world for more layouts.

My own vote went to Map Four, because it had the largest range of landmass sizes - it possessed both one or two real continents of Earthlike scale if not configuration and a generous scattering of sizable islands.

Since I'm hoping to create a power that will be expanding on land rather than overseas, the general configuration of the oceans isn't particularly a big deal to me; I'll play the ball wherever it lays.

(Although I note that extensive shallow seas would be good for overall biomass and 'interesting' weather patterns, should those be desired.)

Draw easely for 7 players.
I have much & much layers & I can change, add or remove every detail like island, straits , gulfs , cities, grid...

(http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/834/1map3.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/864/1map3.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


Jef

I rework Liomina country , Add some cities & remove grid...
(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/7940/1map4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/43/1map4.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


Jef

I chose world four.  It has small, medium, and big landmasses and has deepwater and shallow water as well. 

I could make a really large map in any of the Civilization games from II to V. I am not sure I have the disk for II anymore, but I have them for all of the rest of the games. I haven't had the need to use the map editor ever, but IV does make nicely rendered large maps (less tile like).

Sorry for the delayed feedback.  I won't vote, as I won't be playing on the map.  However...

#1 is a bit of a dog's breakfast.  I think the large number of almost-enclosed bays and inland seas would be problematic.

#2 looks good, although it could use a scattering of smaller islands and archipelagos.  I expect I could work out a plausible tectonic setting without too much difficulty.  If I were playing, this would be my preference.

#3 wouldn't work from a plate tectonics perspective.  There are probably too many chokepoints here.

#4 isn't bad.  I'd rate it as my second choice if I were a player.

Well, seeing as finals are almost over (just one small one tommorow) Im going to begin making some alterations to Map 2 to prep it for setup.

Cool.  Thanks for doing this.

Guys,

Snip and I had decided to move forward with Map #2.  He has started working on a more detailed version, but there is a problem:  Past a certain zoom level, the game system inserts a cloud layer that obscures some topography.

He can work around it, but it will take time and a lot of effort.

My thinking is this:  If y'all can pick out an area of Map #2 where you think we could start play - say, one quarter or less of the map area - Snip could concentrate on detailed maps of that area first, and then work on the surrounding areas at hs leisure later.

Sound reasonable?

Perfectly. My suggestion would be the upper right quarter; its dominant landmass is kind of 'squiggly', making it easily broken into islands, it already has some other such, and it also included the western cape of the main continental mass, which suits my personal plans.

For me, any place is fine as long as I have one large, shallow bay in my territory. ;)
Other than that, I could care less where we start playing, as long as we start playing!