I'm starting an effort to sim some period ships just to get a feel if some ship design elements work or not; particularly minimum required overall strength. First cust: a not particularly good sim of HMS Colossus (of the early 1880s). The extremely thick armor is layered iron armor. It could probably be thinner, but I'm without any reference better than DK Brown on this.
Quote
HMS Colossus, Great Britain Battleship laid down 1879
Armoured Corvette (Broadside ironclad)
Displacement:
8,581 t light; 8,952 t standard; 9,420 t normal; 9,795 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(341.00 ft / 325.00 ft) x 68.00 ft x (25.75 / 26.58 ft)
(103.94 m / 99.06 m) x 20.73 m x (7.85 / 8.10 m)
Armament:
4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 25.3 cal guns - 714.01lbs / 323.87kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turret mounts, 1879 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
4 - 6.00" / 152 mm 25.5 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading guns in broadside mounts, 1879 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
1 - 6.00" / 152 mm 25.5 cal gun - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1879 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
Weight of broadside 3,356 lbs / 1,522 kg
Main Torpedoes
4 - 14.0" / 356 mm, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m torpedoes - 0.122 t each, 0.489 t total
In 4 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 18.0" / 457 mm 108.00 ft / 32.92 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 51 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Hull void:
0.00" / 0 mm 0.00 ft / 0.00 m 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 14.0" / 356 mm -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 2.50" / 64 mm Quarter deck: 2.50" / 64 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 14.00" / 356 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7,421 ihp / 5,536 Kw = 15.63 kts
Range 2,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 843 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
477 - 621
Cost:
£0.680 million / $2.721 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 318 tons, 3.4 %
- Guns: 317 tons, 3.4 %
- Weapons: 1 tons, 0.0 %
Armour: 2,403 tons, 25.5 %
- Belts: 899 tons, 9.5 %
- Armament: 510 tons, 5.4 %
- Armour Deck: 860 tons, 9.1 %
- Conning Tower: 135 tons, 1.4 %
Machinery: 1,555 tons, 16.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,606 tons, 38.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 839 tons, 8.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 700 tons, 7.4 %
- Hull below water: 200 tons
- Hull void weights: 400 tons
- Hull above water: 100 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9,276 lbs / 4,208 Kg = 12.9 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 21.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.49
Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 12.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.20
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.579 / 0.584
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.78 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Average freeboard: 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 56.7 %
Waterplane Area: 15,854 Square feet or 1,473 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 171 lbs/sq ft or 837 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.11
- Longitudinal: 2.75
- Overall: 1.21
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
EDIT: found a better reference, so this has been tweaked a bit.
Reading Conways All the Worlds Fighting Ships 1860-1905 and Birth of the Battleship: British Capital Ship Design 1870-1881 (John Beeler) it think its clear we need to rethink PDN's.
1) They should have low freeboard, which this design has 8' isn't much
2) Colossus was noted in Conways as being a terrible gunnery platform in a seaway.
3) Ships before Colossus were noted to have stability problems.
In short PDN's should be wet ships, poor gunnery platforms, with low margin of stability and or bad sea boats.
The loss of HMS Victoria was caused in part by stability problems caused by overloading of the ship.
Michael
This is what I got working on HMS Colingwood (the First 1880 admiral class) I atempted to keep as close as I could on everything
HMS Collingwood, Great Britain Battleship laid down 1880
Barbette ship
Displacement:
8,481 t light; 8,840 t standard; 9,500 t normal; 10,028 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(325.00 ft / 325.00 ft) x 68.00 ft x (26.25 / 27.42 ft)
(99.06 m / 99.06 m) x 20.73 m x (8.00 / 8.36 m)
Armament:
4 - 11.00" / 279 mm 25.0 cal guns - 714.01lbs / 323.87kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1880 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 6.00" / 152 mm 25.0 cal guns - 80.00lbs / 36.29kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1880 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 3.31lbs / 1.50kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1880 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,363 lbs / 1,525 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 199.00 ft / 60.66 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: 7.00" / 178 mm 126.00 ft / 38.40 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 14.0" / 356 mm 199.00 ft / 60.66 m 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: - - 11.5" / 292 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9,600 ihp / 7,162 Kw = 16.73 kts
Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,188 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
480 - 625
Cost:
£0.671 million / $2.684 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 267 tons, 2.8 %
- Guns: 267 tons, 2.8 %
Armour: 3,605 tons, 37.9 %
- Belts: 2,238 tons, 23.6 %
- Armament: 404 tons, 4.3 %
- Armour Deck: 817 tons, 8.6 %
- Conning Towers: 145 tons, 1.5 %
Machinery: 1,984 tons, 20.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,625 tons, 27.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,019 tons, 10.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8,456 lbs / 3,835 Kg = 14.9 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.34
Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 13.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.17
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.573 / 0.579
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.78 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 21.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Aft deck: 31.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Quarter deck: 18.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Average freeboard: 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 56.3 %
Waterplane Area: 15,762 Square feet or 1,464 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 623 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 2.06
- Overall: 1.01
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Quote from: miketr on August 01, 2011, 07:34:33 PM
In short PDN's should be wet ships, poor gunnery platforms, with low margin of stability and or bad sea boats.
This is quite untrue, as many of the ships in Conway's are noted as having been 'good seaboats' or 'handy.' Even the
H.M.S. Conqueror was noted as being handy and a good steamer in calm waters- which is all that can be expected of a ship with what appears to be all of 4 feet of freeboard. Your example of the
H.M.S. Victoria is somewhat cruel, as she was regarded as a good steamer, if wet forward due to the low freeboard and heavy 16.25" gun turret.
H.M.S. Royal Sovereign and her SIX sisters were regarded as excellent gunnery platforms with good even rolls- after the addition of bilge keels- and excellent seaboats due to their high freeboard.
H.M.S. Renown was an excellent steamer and handled well while maneuvering.
The problem is not that we are 'over-simming' pre-dreadnoughts... the problem is that people are thinking that pre-dreadnoughts should not be wet, and should not have low freeboards. Most of all, people are forgetting that pre-dreadnoughts were not- as a rule- intended for fighting battles on the high seas. Ships of this era were meant for fighting over contested seaways- generally close to land. The cruisers that were intended to fight on the high seas show an entirely different design- higher freeboards, ranges of more than about 3000 n. mi. and high speed.
Quote from: Carthaginian on August 01, 2011, 10:07:08 PM
Quote from: miketr on August 01, 2011, 07:34:33 PM
In short PDN's should be wet ships, poor gunnery platforms, with low margin of stability and or bad sea boats.
This is quite untrue, as many of the ships in Conway's are noted as having been 'good seaboats' or 'handy.' Even the H.M.S. Conqueror was noted as being handy and a good steamer in calm waters- which is all that can be expected of a ship with what appears to be all of 4 feet of freeboard.
Sorry its a poor sea boat, that it was a coast defense turret ram is beside the point. Other PDNs of that era even the sea going ones had problems.
Quote from: Carthaginian on August 01, 2011, 10:07:08 PM
Your example of the H.M.S. Victoria is somewhat cruel, as she was regarded as a good steamer, if wet forward due to the low freeboard and heavy 16.25" gun turret.
That turret also effected the ships stability and contributed to her fast sinking.
Quote from: Carthaginian on August 01, 2011, 10:07:08 PM
H.M.S. Royal Sovereign and her SIX sisters were regarded as excellent gunnery platforms with good even rolls- after the addition of bilge keels- and excellent seaboats due to their high freeboard. H.M.S. Renown was an excellent steamer and handled well while maneuvering.
Also they are 1890 designs and big advance if an evolutionary one form the Admiral class.
Quote from: Carthaginian on August 01, 2011, 10:07:08 PM
The problem is not that we are 'over-simming' pre-dreadnoughts... the problem is that people are thinking that pre-dreadnoughts should not be wet, and should not have low freeboards. Most of all, people are forgetting that pre-dreadnoughts were not- as a rule- intended for fighting battles on the high seas. Ships of this era were meant for fighting over contested seaways- generally close to land. The cruisers that were intended to fight on the high seas show an entirely different design- higher freeboards, ranges of more than about 3000 n. mi. and high speed.
You just rephrased my point here.
Michael
Quote from: miketr on August 01, 2011, 10:22:56 PM
You just rephrased my point here.
No, I did not.
I stated that these ships had the exact opposite qualities you suggest, got the information from the same source you got say you got yours form, and completely contest your point.
Pre-dreadnoughts are SMALLER SHIPS in general than their later counterparts.
Smaller ships can have all sorts of excellent qualities... but they DEGRADE FASTER than those of larger ships. In fact, when I bring up the larger pre-dreadnoughts, you retract your criticism and state they are 'evolutionary designs' and should not be considered.
In short:
You claim they are poor at everything generally.
I say they are excellent
in their element.
QuoteVictoria, Great Britain Battleship Ram laid down 1885
Armoured Casemate Ship
Displacement:
8,592 t light; 9,133 t standard; 10,470 t normal; 11,540 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(363.00 ft / 340.00 ft) x 70.00 ft x (26.75 / 28.95 ft)
(110.64 m / 103.63 m) x 21.34 m x (8.15 / 8.82 m)
Armament:
2 - 16.25" / 413 mm 30.0 cal guns - 1,800.00lbs / 816.47kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turret mount, 1885 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 35.0 cal guns - 80.00lbs / 36.29kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading guns in broadside mounts, 1885 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
1 - 10.00" / 254 mm 35.0 cal gun - 450.01lbs / 204.12kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck and hoist mount, 1885 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
12 - 2.25" / 57.2 mm 40.0 cal guns - 6.00lbs / 2.72kg shells, 500 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1885 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
12 raised mounts
9 - 1.75" / 44.5 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.00lbs / 1.36kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1885 Model
9 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 5,109 lbs / 2,317 kg
Main Torpedoes
2 - 18.0" / 457 mm, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m torpedoes - 0.419 t each, 0.838 t total
submerged side tubes
2nd Torpedoes
2 - 18.0" / 457 mm, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m torpedoes - 0.419 t each, 0.838 t total
submerged bow & stern tubes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 18.0" / 457 mm 178.00 ft / 54.25 m 8.50 ft / 2.59 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 18.0" / 457 mm 60.00 ft / 18.29 m 6.00 ft / 1.83 m
Main Belt covers 81 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17.0" / 432 mm 6.00" / 152 mm -
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm 3.00" / 76 mm -
3rd: 3.00" / 76 mm - 3.00" / 76 mm
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 14.00" / 356 mm, Aft 2.00" / 51 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,298 ihp / 6,190 Kw = 16.13 kts
Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,406 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
516 - 672
Cost:
£0.843 million / $3.372 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 731 tons, 7.0 %
- Guns: 728 tons, 7.0 %
- Weapons: 3 tons, 0.0 %
Armour: 3,129 tons, 29.9 %
- Belts: 1,833 tons, 17.5 %
- Armament: 496 tons, 4.7 %
- Armour Deck: 635 tons, 6.1 %
- Conning Towers: 165 tons, 1.6 %
Machinery: 1,613 tons, 15.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,119 tons, 29.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,878 tons, 17.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9,388 lbs / 4,259 Kg = 4.7 x 16.3 " / 413 mm shells or 6.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 13.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.28
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.576 / 0.586
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.86 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.44 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 8.00 ft / 2.44 m, 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Forward deck: 20.00 %, 8.00 ft / 2.44 m, 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Aft deck: 45.00 %, 8.00 ft / 2.44 m, 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 8.00 ft / 2.44 m, 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Average freeboard: 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 50.2 %
Waterplane Area: 17,013 Square feet or 1,581 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 151 lbs/sq ft or 735 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.28
- Overall: 1.01
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Here's what I'm trying to determine, and I'm happy for some help: whether or not our planned 1.2 overall strength rule for ships built approx. between 1880 and 1890 works, and beyond that whether 1.1 works for ships built approx. between 1890 and 1900.
For Colossus, it seemed like it does, but that's just one historical ship simmed. Also, Colossus was actually built of steel (which I didn't realize when I started that last night). We had in mind requiring 1.2 for iron ships, 1.1 for early steel ships.
Quote from: Carthaginian on August 01, 2011, 10:42:33 PM
Quote from: miketr on August 01, 2011, 10:22:56 PM
You just rephrased my point here.
No, I did not.
I stated that these ships had the exact opposite qualities you suggest, got the information from the same source you got say you got yours form, and completely contest your point.
No it doesn't...
See page 6, the last paragraph of the
Barnaby Era. What conclusion is made of ships of ships of that era (Sans Pareil) in regards to firing their guns in a sea way?
Quote from: Carthaginian on August 01, 2011, 10:42:33 PM
Pre-dreadnoughts are SMALLER SHIPS in general than their later counterparts.
Smaller ships can have all sorts of excellent qualities... but they DEGRADE FASTER than those of larger ships. In fact, when I bring up the larger pre-dreadnoughts, you retract your criticism and state they are 'evolutionary designs' and should not be considered.
Do you think its reasonable to look at ships with a construction date of 1890 as examples for ships we will be building at start of the sim? Should we look at them for whats in the fleets to start with?
My point stands.
Quote from: Carthaginian on August 01, 2011, 10:42:33 PM
In short:
You claim they are poor at everything generally.
I say they are excellent in their element.
UGH.... I am sorry everything is relative and compared to what came later they sucked for many reasons not the least of which was lack of design experience we are not going to be building ships of the White Era for some time. Even then such ships look worse when compared to what follows later. When you are doing a game that is going to cover ships from 1860-19XX you need to make such comparisons.
Were the ships built at X time period the best that could be built at the moment? Yes / No / Sort of. Few ships are maximal designs, they are often a compromise of logistics, politics and technology of the day.
If you can find Birth of the Battleship it has a number of insights on this concept of relativity.
Look lets rewind here a bit. We are going to have ships build in the 1860's and 1870's as the core of fleets to start the game with. They are going to be around, even in secondary service for a number of years. Then we need to worry about ships like the Admiral Class and later the Royal Sovereigns, each bigger and better than what came before it. Step by step evolution and looking at ships of later eras and design standards can cause problems. Does this make sense.
Michael
Guinness, if I read it correctly in the British BB book, the main belt height is not 8 feet but 16 feet (6'6" below the water to the main deck height of 9'6"; also the cross-section clearly indicates that the armor is two decks high). While weight-wise your armor is a mere 10 tons off the 2414 tons given in the book, for it to be a proper sim of the Colossus, the belt should be 2 decks high. The citadel thickness is given as 14"-18" although the book does not exactly indicate where those thicknesses are in the citadel...
Also, applying KISS, I would assume the citadel to be box-shaped and use the given 123 feet citadel length for the sim (read: "I'm too lazy to grab a ruler and make exact calculations of how long the main belt would be if it were box-shaped instead of the broad oval shaped one that was really used on Colossus").
This is data I didn't have at hand, so I'll update my SS and see how it comes out.
Walter: do you have what the bunkerage was too?
The book gives "850/950 tons". It could mean 850 tons at normal displacement and 950 tons at full load but that's speculation on my part. With the majority of ships I have simmed so far, I have been using the indicated coal tonnage to determine the range if I could not find a given range.
Revised Sim: armor+hull weights seem to agree with the references I can find. Total bunkerage is bunkerage + void space misc. weight, and I think is close enough. I also added a number of 4 barrel Nordenfeldt guns. Note that I advanced engine year slightly, but I suspect that this was actually about right, given the state of British engineering practice relative to the average in this era.
We need more examples, but this one casts doubt on the use of additional overall strength to sim older ships.
QuoteHMS Colossus, Great Britain Battleship laid down 1879 (Engine 1882)
Armoured Corvette (Broadside ironclad)
Displacement:
8,663 t light; 9,031 t standard; 9,420 t normal; 9,732 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(337.00 ft / 325.00 ft) x 68.00 ft x (25.75 / 26.44 ft)
(102.72 m / 99.06 m) x 20.73 m x (7.85 / 8.06 m)
Armament:
4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 25.3 cal guns - 714.01lbs / 323.87kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turret mounts, 1883 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
4 - 6.00" / 152 mm 25.5 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in broadside mounts, 1882 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
1 - 6.00" / 152 mm 25.5 cal gun - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1879 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
32 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 35.0 cal guns - 0.44lbs / 0.20kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1883 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 3,370 lbs / 1,529 kg
Main Torpedoes
2 - 14.0" / 356 mm, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m torpedoes - 0.130 t each, 0.259 t total
In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
2nd Torpedoes
7 - 14.0" / 356 mm, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m torpedoes - 0.000 t each, 0.000 t total
below water reloads
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 18.0" / 457 mm 123.00 ft / 37.49 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 58 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Hull void:
0.00" / 0 mm 0.00 ft / 0.00 m 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 14.0" / 356 mm -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 2.50" / 64 mm Quarter deck: 2.50" / 64 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 14.00" / 356 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7,221 ihp / 5,387 Kw = 15.63 kts
Range 3,000nm at 8.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 701 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
477 - 621
Cost:
£0.676 million / $2.703 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 331 tons, 3.5 %
- Guns: 330 tons, 3.5 %
- Weapons: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Armour: 3,448 tons, 36.6 %
- Belts: 1,944 tons, 20.6 %
- Armament: 510 tons, 5.4 %
- Armour Deck: 860 tons, 9.1 %
- Conning Tower: 135 tons, 1.4 %
Machinery: 1,453 tons, 15.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,931 tons, 31.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 757 tons, 8.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 5.3 %
- Hull below water: 200 tons
- Hull void weights: 200 tons
- Hull above water: 100 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9,350 lbs / 4,241 Kg = 13.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 21.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 12.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.21
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.19
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.579 / 0.583
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.78 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.00 ft / 1.83 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Average freeboard: 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 56.9 %
Waterplane Area: 15,854 Square feet or 1,473 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 141 lbs/sq ft or 687 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.26
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Quote from: miketr on August 02, 2011, 08:24:44 AM
See page 6, the last paragraph of the Barnaby Era. What conclusion is made of ships of ships of that era (Sans Pareil) in regards to firing their guns in a sea way?
They weren't really
designed to fight in a seaway.
They were designed in a navy where turret ships were never intended to fight outside of coastal environments. They were- in principle- a mobile gun battery designed to be large enough to sail from coastal area to coastal area, participate in a battle when they arrive, then return to the motherland for repairs. Hell, combat in inclement weather is still a relatively new concept at this time... it's something that a fleet of sail-only vessels could never really dream of, and something that designers didn't consider when designing a new ship.
Ships that come along much later were designed with fighting on the open sea, and are therefore designed as more suitable to such a purpose.
Quote from: miketr on August 02, 2011, 08:24:44 AM
Quote from: Carthaginian on August 01, 2011, 10:42:33 PM
In short:
You claim they are poor at everything generally.
I say they are excellent in their element.
When you are doing a game that is going to cover ships from 1860-19XX you need to make such comparisons.
Only when you are comparing them to another era; when comparing them to ships of their own era, they may be 'good sea boats' and 'stable gunnery platforms'- even if they are actually wetter, less stable and worse than what comes later... which is where the comparison in the book are coming from. So, in terms of Springsharp, we need not have any kinds of warnings... if fact, according to Springsharp, we can have good stability and gunnery ratings.
Quote from: miketr on August 02, 2011, 08:24:44 AM
Look lets rewind here a bit. We are going to have ships build in the 1860's and 1870's as the core of fleets to start the game with. They are going to be around, even in secondary service for a number of years. Then we need to worry about ships like the Admiral Class and later the Royal Sovereigns, each bigger and better than what came before it. Step by step evolution and looking at ships of later eras and design standards can cause problems. Does this make sense.
Even these ships will, according to Springsharp, have the characteristics of being good seaboats and stable gunnery platforms, Mike.
WHY?Because Springsharp takes into account the 'relativity' in designing when assigning such status. It doesn't say
'compared to ships of a later era, this is a poor seaboat'; it essentially says
'compared to another ship of equal dimensions, this is a good seaboat.' During each era this is going to be an issue; we've heard this broken record during discussions regarding ships during N3- especially regarding destroyers.
I think you are making a broad, sweeping generalization covering naval combat in general, and I am looking more specifically at ships of a given time and place.
This is what I got with the Cerberus data. :o
Upper belt used to sim the armored breastwork.
HMVS Cerberus, Great Brittain Breastwork Monitor laid down 1867
Displacement:
3,106 t light; 3,247 t standard; 3,363 t normal; 3,456 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(225.00 ft / 225.00 ft) x 45.00 ft x (15.50 / 15.88 ft)
(68.58 m / 68.58 m) x 13.72 m x (4.72 / 4.84 m)
Armament:
4 - 10.00" / 254 mm 14.6 cal guns - 400.01lbs / 181.44kg shells, 80 per gun
Muzzle loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turret mounts, 1867 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
2 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm 15.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 150 per gun
Muzzle loading guns in deck mounts, 1867 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,624 lbs / 737 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 113.00 ft / 34.44 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Ends: 6.00" / 152 mm 112.00 ft / 34.14 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Upper: 8.00" / 203 mm 113.00 ft / 34.44 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Main Belt covers 77% of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 9.00" / 229 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 868 ihp / 648 Kw = 9.75 kts
Range 1,700nm at 6.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 209 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
220 - 287
Cost:
£0.185 million / $0.738 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 103 tons, 3.1%
- Guns: 103 tons, 3.1%
Armour: 1,350 tons, 40.1%
- Belts: 879 tons, 26.1%
- Armament: 249 tons, 7.4%
- Armour Deck: 222 tons, 6.6%
Machinery: 228 tons, 6.8%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,425 tons, 42.4%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 256 tons, 7.6%
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,453 lbs / 1,113 Kg = 7.5 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 15.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 14 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.13
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.750 / 0.752
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 35 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 29
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00%, 3.50 ft / 1.07 m, 3.50 ft / 1.07 m
- Forward deck: 30.00%, 3.50 ft / 1.07 m, 3.50 ft / 1.07 m
- Aft deck: 35.00%, 3.50 ft / 1.07 m, 3.50 ft / 1.07 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00%, 3.50 ft / 1.07 m, 3.50 ft / 1.07 m
- Average freeboard: 3.50 ft / 1.07 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 36.6%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 25.7%
Waterplane Area: 8,481 Square feet or 788 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 151%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs/sq ft or 685 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.62
- Longitudinal: 1.17
- Overall: 0.66
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room
Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability
Alternatively cheating a bit by ignoring the fact that those 10" guns are raised...
HMVS Cerberus, Great Brittain Breastwork Monitor laid down 1867
Displacement:
3,106 t light; 3,247 t standard; 3,363 t normal; 3,456 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(225.00 ft / 225.00 ft) x 45.00 ft x (15.50 / 15.88 ft)
(68.58 m / 68.58 m) x 13.72 m x (4.72 / 4.84 m)
Armament:
4 - 10.00" / 254 mm 14.6 cal guns - 400.01lbs / 181.44kg shells, 80 per gun
Muzzle loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turret mounts, 1867 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm 15.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 150 per gun
Muzzle loading guns in deck mounts, 1867 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,624 lbs / 737 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 113.00 ft / 34.44 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Ends: 6.00" / 152 mm 112.00 ft / 34.14 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Upper: 8.00" / 203 mm 113.00 ft / 34.44 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Main Belt covers 77% of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 9.00" / 229 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 868 ihp / 648 Kw = 9.75 kts
Range 1,700nm at 6.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 209 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
220 - 287
Cost:
£0.185 million / $0.738 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 103 tons, 3.1%
- Guns: 103 tons, 3.1%
Armour: 1,350 tons, 40.1%
- Belts: 879 tons, 26.1%
- Armament: 249 tons, 7.4%
- Armour Deck: 222 tons, 6.6%
Machinery: 228 tons, 6.8%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,425 tons, 42.4%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 256 tons, 7.6%
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,852 lbs / 1,747 Kg = 11.8 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 14.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.25
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.57
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.750 / 0.752
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 35 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 88
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00%, 3.50 ft / 1.07 m, 3.50 ft / 1.07 m
- Forward deck: 30.00%, 3.50 ft / 1.07 m, 3.50 ft / 1.07 m
- Aft deck: 35.00%, 3.50 ft / 1.07 m, 3.50 ft / 1.07 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00%, 3.50 ft / 1.07 m, 3.50 ft / 1.07 m
- Average freeboard: 3.50 ft / 1.07 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 36.6%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 25.7%
Waterplane Area: 8,481 Square feet or 788 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 151%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs/sq ft or 685 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.14
- Longitudinal: 1.43
- Overall: 1.17
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability
the trend im getting in SS3 is pre 1880 ships come out around 1.20, 1880 ships are coming out around a 1.00. im using the upper belt to get the belt height right as they all apear to have more belt above the watterline than below it. Walter did Cerberus which I just finished siming so I wont bother posting it as he came out about the same place I did.
This is my first attempt in SS3 for the HMS Hotspur, an ironclad ram laid down 1868.
Quote
HMS Hotspur, Greater Britain Armored Ram laid down 1868
Central citadel ship
Armoured Frigate (Broadside ironclad)
Displacement:
3,946 t light; 4,104 t standard; 4,333 t normal; 4,517 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(253.00 ft / 253.00 ft) x 50.00 ft x (19.00 / 19.68 ft)
(77.11 m / 77.11 m) x 15.24 m x (5.79 / 6.00 m)
Armament:
1 - 12.00" / 305 mm 45.0 cal gun - 713.24lbs / 323.52kg shells, 150 per gun
Muzzle loading gun in Coles/Ericsson turret mount, 1868 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
2 - 5.50" / 140 mm 45.0 cal guns - 68.67lbs / 31.15kg shells, 150 per gun
Muzzle loading guns in broadside mounts, 1868 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
2 hull mounts on upper deck- Limited use in all but light seas
Weight of broadside 851 lbs / 386 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 164.45 ft / 50.12 m 8.49 ft / 2.59 m
Ends: 8.00" / 203 mm 88.53 ft / 26.98 m 8.49 ft / 2.59 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm - -
2nd: 8.00" / 203 mm - -
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.75" / 70 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2,495 shp / 1,861 Kw = 12.70 kts
Range 1,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 413 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
266 - 347
Cost:
£0.301 million / $1.203 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 172 tons, 4.0 %
- Guns: 172 tons, 4.0 %
Armour: 1,473 tons, 34.0 %
- Belts: 922 tons, 21.3 %
- Armament: 121 tons, 2.8 %
- Armour Deck: 430 tons, 9.9 %
Machinery: 639 tons, 14.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,662 tons, 38.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 387 tons, 8.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4,562 lbs / 2,070 Kg = 7.9 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.44
Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 11.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 86 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.71
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise aft of midbreak,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.631 / 0.635
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.06 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.91 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 8.00 ft / 2.44 m, 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 8.00 ft / 2.44 m, 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 64.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 76.6 %
Waterplane Area: 9,523 Square feet or 885 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 126 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 125 lbs/sq ft or 611 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.02
- Longitudinal: 2.74
- Overall: 1.12
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Warning: Beam between bulkheads too wide
Quote from: Darman on August 02, 2011, 03:56:34 PM
This is my first attempt in SS3 for the HMS Hotspur, an ironclad ram laid down 1868.
HMS Hotspur, Greater Britain Armored Ram laid down 1868
Central citadel ship
Armoured Frigate (Broadside ironclad)
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, steam turbines
Turbines in 1868?
Quote from: eltf177 on August 03, 2011, 04:59:23 AM
Quote from: Darman on August 02, 2011, 03:56:34 PM
This is my first attempt in SS3 for the HMS Hotspur, an ironclad ram laid down 1868.
HMS Hotspur, Greater Britain Armored Ram laid down 1868
Central citadel ship
Armoured Frigate (Broadside ironclad)
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, steam turbines
Turbines in 1868?
obviously I have a tendency to overlook somethings.... usually its forgetting the number of shells or something. I was just getting used to SS2 too....
No biggie, but obviously the design looks good due to turbines and won't be after switching to recip's.
BTW, when did the turbine become available. IIRC it was the 1903 Fleet Review that "Turbania" crashed.
Quote from: eltf177 on August 03, 2011, 01:07:37 PM
No biggie, but obviously the design looks good due to turbines and won't be after switching to recip's.
BTW, when did the turbine become available. IIRC it was the 1903 Fleet Review that "Turbania" crashed.
1900 in Spring Sharp, but your wasting your time using them till 1905 (they weigh more than VTEs and actualy take more space atleast in SS2 havnt messed with em in SS3 yet)
Turbinia crashed the Queen's Diamond Jubilee review in 1897. The first 2 RN turbine destroyers (HMS Viper and HMS Cobra) were launched in 1899. Both had Parsons turbines, as Parsons was the only company in the world making them at that point.
The first year SS3 doesn't complain is too early is 1898.
Another test design: USS Maine. This one may reinforce the idea of using 1.1 overall strength for Iron ships, 1.05 for early steel ships, and 1.0 for later steel ships.
Quote
USS Maine, United States Battleship (2nd Class) laid down 1895 (Engine 1898)
Displacement:
6,074 t light; 6,351 t standard; 6,843 t normal; 7,236 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(324.33 ft / 318.25 ft) x 57.20 ft x (19.67 / 20.64 ft)
(98.86 m / 97.00 m) x 17.43 m x (5.99 / 6.29 m)
Armament:
4 - 10.00" / 254 mm 30.0 cal guns - 510.00lbs / 231.33kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
6 - 6.00" / 152 mm 30.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
7 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 5.70lbs / 2.58kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
Weight of broadside 2,680 lbs / 1,216 kg
Main Torpedoes
6 - 18.0" / 457 mm, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m torpedoes - 0.502 t each, 3.009 t total
In 6 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 180.00 ft / 54.86 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 87 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Hull void:
0.00" / 0 mm 0.00 ft / 0.00 m 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 8.00" / 203 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.00" / 0 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9,171 ihp / 6,842 Kw = 17.69 kts
Range 4,250nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 885 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
376 - 489
Cost:
£0.556 million / $2.222 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 343 tons, 5.0 %
- Guns: 340 tons, 5.0 %
- Weapons: 4 tons, 0.1 %
Armour: 1,852 tons, 27.1 %
- Belts: 707 tons, 10.3 %
- Armament: 464 tons, 6.8 %
- Armour Deck: 603 tons, 8.8 %
- Conning Tower: 78 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 1,479 tons, 21.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,000 tons, 29.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 768 tons, 11.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 5.8 %
- Hull below water: 200 tons
- Hull void weights: 100 tons
- Hull above water: 100 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
7,125 lbs / 3,232 Kg = 14.3 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 3.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 12.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.13
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.669 / 0.674
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.56 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 5.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
- Quarter deck: 30.00 %, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
- Average freeboard: 11.35 ft / 3.46 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 78.2 %
Waterplane Area: 14,189 Square feet or 1,318 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 110 lbs/sq ft or 539 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 2.11
- Overall: 1.05
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
And USS Cushing, TB-1:
Quote
USS Cushing, United States Torpedo Boat laid down 1888
Displacement:
102 t light; 106 t standard; 110 t normal; 113 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(153.00 ft / 150.00 ft) x 15.08 ft x (4.46 / 4.54 ft)
(46.63 m / 45.72 m) x 4.60 m x (1.36 / 1.38 m)
Armament:
2 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 5.61lbs / 2.55kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1888 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 11 lbs / 5 kg
Main Torpedoes
3 - 18.0" / 457 mm, 11.60 ft / 3.54 m torpedoes - 0.278 t each, 0.835 t total
In 3 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2,361 ihp / 1,762 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 500nm at 8.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7 tons (100% coal)
Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery
Complement:
16 - 22
Cost:
£0.014 million / $0.056 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4 tons, 3.4 %
- Guns: 2 tons, 1.9 %
- Weapons: 2 tons, 1.5 %
Machinery: 70 tons, 63.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 29 tons, 26.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7 tons, 6.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17 lbs / 8 Kg = 3.1 x 2.2 " / 57 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 0.4 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 9.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 37 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.06
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.32
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak, raised quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.380 / 0.384
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.95 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 85
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 5.00 ft / 1.52 m, 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 4.20 ft / 1.28 m, 4.20 ft / 1.28 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 3.00 ft / 0.91 m, 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 3.30 ft / 1.01 m, 3.30 ft / 1.01 m
- Average freeboard: 3.81 ft / 1.16 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 211.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 35.7 %
Waterplane Area: 1,374 Square feet or 128 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 12 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 15 lbs/sq ft or 73 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.57
- Longitudinal: 0.62
- Overall: 0.57
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability
Quote from: Guinness on August 04, 2011, 06:42:55 PM
Another test design: USS Maine. This one may reinforce the idea of using 1.1 overall strength for Iron ships, 1.05 for early steel ships, and 1.0 for later steel ships.
From what we are seeing, I think this might be a VERY reasonable setup.
I agree.
Quote from: Carthaginian on August 04, 2011, 08:47:35 PM
Quote from: Guinness on August 04, 2011, 06:42:55 PM
Another test design: USS Maine. This one may reinforce the idea of using 1.1 overall strength for Iron ships, 1.05 for early steel ships, and 1.0 for later steel ships.
From what we are seeing, I think this might be a VERY reasonable setup.
Any worry if we want to overbuild our ships? 1.2 or greater even if it is early steel?
Quote from: Ithekro on August 04, 2011, 10:46:22 PM
Any worry if we want to overbuild our ships? 1.2 or greater even if it is early steel?
I doubt anyone will realy care if you want to overbuild im not sure it will realy matter (atleast it wouldnt in most battle systems) I figure its more for Flavor like AQY is for me.
An attempt to reproduce another historic ship. Not 100% sure she really had a main belt, but if she did, the sim came out quite well.
http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helgoland_(panserskib) (http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helgoland_(panserskib))
Helgoland, Norden Pansarskepp laid down 1876
Central citadel ship
Displacement:
5 000 t light; 5 263 t standard; 5 480 t normal; 5 654 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(263,78 ft / 259,84 ft) x 59,38 ft x (19,36 / 19,88 ft)
(80,40 m / 79,20 m) x 18,10 m x (5,90 / 6,06 m)
Armament:
1 - 12,01" / 305 mm 22,0 cal gun - 693,31lbs / 314,48kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading gun in Coles/Ericsson turret mount, 1876 Model
1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
4 - 10,24" / 260 mm 22,0 cal guns - 429,48lbs / 194,81kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1876 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in any sea
5 - 4,72" / 120 mm 30,0 cal guns - 43,19lbs / 19,59kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1876 Model
5 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 30,0 cal guns - 1,27lbs / 0,57kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1876 Model
2 x Quad mounts on sides, forward deck aft
Weight of broadside 2 637 lbs / 1 196 kg
Main Torpedoes
2 - 15,0" / 380 mm, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m torpedoes - 0,076 t each, 0,152 t total
submerged bow & stern tubes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12,0" / 305 mm 124,67 ft / 38,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 12,0" / 305 mm 124,67 ft / 38,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m
Main Belt covers 74 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11,8" / 300 mm 5,91" / 150 mm -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2,05" / 52 mm
Forecastle: 2,05" / 52 mm Quarter deck: 2,05" / 52 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 9,84" / 250 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 4 000 ihp / 2 984 Kw = 14,03 kts
Range 1 402nm at 9,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 391 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
317 - 413
Cost:
£0,376 million / $1,504 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 201 tons, 3,7 %
- Guns: 201 tons, 3,7 %
- Weapons: 0 tons, 0,0 %
Armour: 1 939 tons, 35,4 %
- Belts: 1 279 tons, 23,3 %
- Armament: 147 tons, 2,7 %
- Armour Deck: 448 tons, 8,2 %
- Conning Tower: 66 tons, 1,2 %
Machinery: 877 tons, 16,0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 963 tons, 35,8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 480 tons, 8,8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 0,4 %
- Hull below water: 10 tons
- Hull above water: 10 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6 667 lbs / 3 024 Kg = 9,7 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 30,8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,53
Metacentric height 4,7 ft / 1,4 m
Roll period: 11,5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 85 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,32
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,71
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,642 / 0,645
Length to Beam Ratio: 4,38 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 16,12 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 25,00 %, 10,50 ft / 3,20 m, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m
- Forward deck: 30,00 %, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m
- Aft deck: 30,00 %, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m
- Quarter deck: 15,00 %, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m
- Average freeboard: 11,38 ft / 3,47 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 68,3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 81,0 %
Waterplane Area: 11 736 Square feet or 1 090 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 123 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 627 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,97
- Longitudinal: 3,30
- Overall: 1,10
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
HMS Scorpion, I used the weight rule Proposed by Miketr in the Sail / Rigging weight thread, and much to my amazement (and shocked surprise I promise) she works out fairly well ending up at a 1.10 Composite.
HMS Scorpion, United Kingdom Ironclad Turret Ship laid down 1863
Displacement:
2,291 t light; 2,379 t standard; 2,751 t normal; 3,048 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(224.00 ft / 224.00 ft) x 42.00 ft x (18.00 / 19.60 ft)
(68.28 m / 68.28 m) x 12.80 m x (5.49 / 5.97 m)
Armament:
4 - 9.00" / 229 mm 13.9 cal guns - 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 60 per gun
Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turret mounts, 1863 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,000 lbs / 454 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 145.60 ft / 44.38 m 6.00 ft / 1.83 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 145.60 ft / 44.38 m 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm - -
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 1 shaft, 989 ihp / 738 Kw = 10.50 kts
Range 1,782nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 669 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
189 - 246
Cost:
£0.149 million / $0.597 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 68 tons, 2.5 %
- Guns: 68 tons, 2.5 %
Armour: 368 tons, 13.4 %
- Belts: 247 tons, 9.0 %
- Armament: 120 tons, 4.4 %
Machinery: 288 tons, 10.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,349 tons, 49.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 460 tons, 16.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 218 tons, 7.9 %
- Hull below water: 176 tons
- On freeboard deck: 21 tons
- Above deck: 21 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,067 lbs / 1,391 Kg = 14.1 x 9.0 " / 229 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.36
Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 11.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.569 / 0.579
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14.97 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 34 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 37
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 10.00 ft / 3.05 m, 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 10.00 ft / 3.05 m, 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Quarter deck: 20.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 12.80 ft / 3.90 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 52.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 65.5 %
Waterplane Area: 6,501 Square feet or 604 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 192 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 127 lbs/sq ft or 619 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 4.81
- Overall: 1.10
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
In the interest of simplicity, could we just stick with a flat 1.0 overall hull strength? Maybe give a bonus to those that go the 1.10/1.05/1.00 route? We are already going with SS3 and that's pretty complicated for starters.
Quote from: Desertfox on August 09, 2011, 04:21:39 PM
In the interest of simplicity, could we just stick with a flat 1.0 overall hull strength? Maybe give a bonus to those that go the 1.10/1.05/1.00 route? We are already going with SS3 and that's pretty complicated for starters.
Seriously... SS3 is not that hard man, and getting to even a 1.20 isnt to bad (although im all infavor of droping it to a 1.10)
Using Navypedia, Wikipedia, NavWeaps I get this. Had some extra strength to eat up so I put misc weight on.
Re Umberto, Italian Barbette Ship laid down 1884
Barbette ship
Displacement:
11,349 t light; 12,006 t standard; 13,673 t normal; 15,006 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(418.64 ft / 407.15 ft) x 76.77 ft x (30.48 / 32.72 ft)
(127.60 m / 124.10 m) x 23.40 m x (9.29 / 9.97 m)
Armament:
4 - 13.50" / 343 mm 30.0 cal guns - 1,322.77lbs / 600.00kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1880 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 5.98" / 152 mm 40.0 cal guns - 99.87lbs / 45.30kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1884 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
16 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm 43.0 cal guns - 6.00lbs / 2.72kg shells, 500 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1883 Model
16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in any sea
4 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm 43.0 cal guns - 6.00lbs / 2.72kg shells, 500 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1883 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
10 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 30.0 cal guns - 0.99lbs / 0.45kg shells, 750 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1884 Model
10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6,220 lbs / 2,821 kg
Main Torpedoes
15 - 17.7" / 450 mm, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m torpedoes - 0.305 t each, 4.579 t total
In 5 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 272.31 ft / 83.00 m 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 262.47 ft / 80.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: - - 14.2" / 360 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm - -
3rd: 1.97" / 50 mm - 3.94" / 100 mm
4th: 1.97" / 50 mm - -
5th: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 2.95" / 75 mm Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm
Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 17,000 ihp / 12,682 Kw = 19.00 kts
Range 7,180nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,000 tons (100% coal)
Complement:
631 - 821
Cost:
£1.086 million / $4.344 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 613 tons, 4.5 %
- Guns: 607 tons, 4.4 %
- Weapons: 6 tons, 0.0 %
Armour: 2,849 tons, 20.8 %
- Belts: 886 tons, 6.5 %
- Armament: 813 tons, 5.9 %
- Armour Deck: 1,149 tons, 8.4 %
Machinery: 3,341 tons, 24.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,492 tons, 32.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,324 tons, 17.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 55 tons, 0.4 %
- Hull below water: 25 tons
- Hull above water: 25 tons
- On freeboard deck: 5 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12,077 lbs / 5,478 Kg = 10.8 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 7.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.64
Metacentric height 7.7 ft / 2.3 m
Roll period: 11.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.19
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.502 / 0.514
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.30 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -8.20 ft / -2.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m, 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Average freeboard: 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 66.0 %
Waterplane Area: 20,869 Square feet or 1,939 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 163 lbs/sq ft or 797 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.01
- Longitudinal: 2.42
- Overall: 1.10
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Cramped accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily