With the lessons learned in the Rift War, a young, fertile and especialy creative mind proposes this.
It does everything that is needed.
The 6 main guns, the minimum needed for effective firecontrol, combined with the new in development 410mm guns and turrets gives the ship a punch equal to Montmedie .
The 16 140mm in the ubiqtous twin mount and hoist make sure that DD attacks can, and will be disrupted.
The heavy 37mm gun anti air battery combined with the dozen fighters from the aviaton department are deemed sufficient to swat any attempt with ship based aircraft.
And above all, the ship is comfortable, fits perfect in the Nassau Battle-line and has exellent stability and steadiness, facilitating fire control and the launching and recovering of aircraft on the 40 meter long flight deck.
QuoteAlbator, French Hybrid carrier laid down 1920
Displacement:
35.000 t light; 36.749 t standard; 40.272 t normal; 43.090 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
688,98 ft / 685,70 ft x 114,83 ft x 29,53 ft (normal load)
210,00 m / 209,00 m x 35,00 m x 9,00 m
Armament:
6 - 16,14" / 410 mm guns (2x3 guns), 2.535,32lbs / 1.150,00kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1920 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 16.709 lbs / 7.579 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14,5" / 368 mm 308,56 ft / 94,05 m 24,00 ft / 7,32 m
Ends: 3,50" / 89 mm 377,11 ft / 114,94 m 12,86 ft / 3,92 m
Upper: 3,00" / 76 mm 308,56 ft / 94,05 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 69% of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2,00" / 51 mm 308,56 ft / 94,05 m 27,92 ft / 8,51 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15,0" / 381 mm 8,00" / 203 mm 15,0" / 381 mm
2nd: 2,00" / 51 mm 1,00" / 25 mm 3,00" / 76 mm
3rd: 0,50" / 13 mm 0,50" / 13 mm -
- Armour deck: 4,00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 15,00" / 381 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 57.755 shp / 43.085 Kw = 23,00 kts
Range 9.000nm at 16,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6.341 tons
Complement:
1.420 - 1.847
Cost:
£7,031 million / $28,126 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1.747 tons, 4,3%
Armour: 13.694 tons, 34,0%
- Belts: 6.215 tons, 15,4%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 638 tons, 1,6%
- Armament: 2.175 tons, 5,4%
- Armour Deck: 4.286 tons, 10,6%
- Conning Tower: 380 tons, 0,9%
Machinery: 2.019 tons, 5,0%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15.540 tons, 38,6%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.272 tons, 13,1%
Miscellaneous weights: 2.000 tons, 5,0%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
69.909 lbs / 31.710 Kg = 33,2 x 16,1 " / 410 mm shells or 12,7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22
Metacentric height 8,9 ft / 2,7 m
Roll period: 16,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,85
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0,606
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,97 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26,19 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Forecastle (20%): 18,04 ft / 5,50 m
- Mid (50%): 18,04 ft / 5,50 m
- Quarterdeck (35%): 42,65 ft / 13,00 m (18,04 ft / 5,50 m before break)
- Stern: 42,65 ft / 13,00 m
- Average freeboard: 27,05 ft / 8,25 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 67,1%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140,2%
Waterplane Area: 57.925 Square feet or 5.381 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 196 lbs/sq ft or 959 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,93
- Longitudinal: 1,91
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
250 ton FC
25Ton Long range marconi
25 ton ERADe
100ton Crew Comfort
200 ton firefighting and damage control facilities (paranoïa with all that avgas)
1400 ton aviation space. 37 aircraft accommodated.
I've never seen barbette armour for a mount and hoist before.
Other than that, she looks excellent. I'd love to see a diagram of her, just to see where everything fits.
This could be interesting...
Ive always been fond of the hybrid concept. It would be great for a power without much shipbuilding capacity...(runs to SS)
Quote from: Laertes on September 20, 2010, 09:13:34 AM
I've never seen barbette armour for a mount and hoist before.
Other than that, she looks excellent. I'd love to see a diagram of her, just to see where everything fits.
I based my Twin 140's on the US twin 5" as used on the newer BB's. I know, you could call it hindsightis. But the development of this armament has a nice logical build up over the 20 years of the Nverse.
Originaly the 140mm was used in casemates on deck level, with larger guns like the 165 or 195 in hull casemates. Later some deck mounted 140's were used (1900's ships, like the Neptune); to be followed by an attempted light armored cruiser with 165mm twins in heavely armored mount and hoists. The Town class. These ships weren't a succes , as the heavy housing couldn't turn fast enough.
The heaviest mount and hoist useable, given the French techology, is the now ubiqtous twin 140 with 2" face , 1" weathershield and an armored ready ammo supply box/powerpack with the support for the weight rivetted in the girders and deck structure. This armored box has 3" armor plate.
It's this box that is the below deck part of this mount and hoist set.
Quote from: maddox on September 20, 2010, 09:09:06 AM
With the lessons learned in the Rift War, a young, fertile and especialy creative mind proposes this.
It does everything that is needed.
The 6 main guns, the minimum needed for effective firecontrol, combined with the new in development 410mm guns and turrets gives the ship a punch equal to Montmedie .
The 16 140mm in the ubiqtous twin mount and hoist make sure that DD attacks can, and will be disrupted.
The heavy 37mm gun anti air battery combined with the dozen fighters from the aviaton department are deemed sufficient to swat any attempt with ship based aircraft.
And above all, the ship is comfortable, fits perfect in the Nassau Battle-line and has exellent stability and steadiness, facilitating fire control and the launching and recovering of aircraft on the 40 meter long flight deck.
QuoteAlbator, French Hybrid carrier laid down 1920
Displacement:
35.000 t light; 36.749 t standard; 40.272 t normal; 43.090 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
688,98 ft / 685,70 ft x 114,83 ft x 29,53 ft (normal load)
210,00 m / 209,00 m x 35,00 m x 9,00 m
Armament:
6 - 16,14" / 410 mm guns (2x3 guns), 2.535,32lbs / 1.150,00kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1920 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 16.709 lbs / 7.579 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14,5" / 368 mm 308,56 ft / 94,05 m 24,00 ft / 7,32 m
Ends: 3,50" / 89 mm 377,11 ft / 114,94 m 12,86 ft / 3,92 m
Upper: 3,00" / 76 mm 308,56 ft / 94,05 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 69% of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2,00" / 51 mm 308,56 ft / 94,05 m 27,92 ft / 8,51 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15,0" / 381 mm 8,00" / 203 mm 15,0" / 381 mm
2nd: 2,00" / 51 mm 1,00" / 25 mm 3,00" / 76 mm
3rd: 0,50" / 13 mm 0,50" / 13 mm -
- Armour deck: 4,00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 15,00" / 381 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 57.755 shp / 43.085 Kw = 23,00 kts
Range 9.000nm at 16,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6.341 tons
Complement:
1.420 - 1.847
Cost:
£7,031 million / $28,126 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1.747 tons, 4,3%
Armour: 13.694 tons, 34,0%
- Belts: 6.215 tons, 15,4%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 638 tons, 1,6%
- Armament: 2.175 tons, 5,4%
- Armour Deck: 4.286 tons, 10,6%
- Conning Tower: 380 tons, 0,9%
Machinery: 2.019 tons, 5,0%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15.540 tons, 38,6%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.272 tons, 13,1%
Miscellaneous weights: 2.000 tons, 5,0%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
69.909 lbs / 31.710 Kg = 33,2 x 16,1 " / 410 mm shells or 12,7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22
Metacentric height 8,9 ft / 2,7 m
Roll period: 16,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,85
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0,606
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,97 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26,19 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Forecastle (20%): 18,04 ft / 5,50 m
- Mid (50%): 18,04 ft / 5,50 m
- Quarterdeck (35%): 42,65 ft / 13,00 m (18,04 ft / 5,50 m before break)
- Stern: 42,65 ft / 13,00 m
- Average freeboard: 27,05 ft / 8,25 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 67,1%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140,2%
Waterplane Area: 57.925 Square feet or 5.381 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 196 lbs/sq ft or 959 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,93
- Longitudinal: 1,91
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
250 ton FC
25Ton Long range marconi
25 ton ERADe
100ton Crew Comfort
200 ton firefighting and damage control facilities (paranoïa with all that avgas)
1400 ton aviation space. 37 aircraft accommodated.
Note to the DKN, get to work on better torpedoes and the means to deliver same!
Thanks for the remark. 37 aircraft require 1369 tons of misc weight. Meaning I've 31 tons left. What about a broadside of 5 underwater 24" torpedos?
Or, with some reshuffling....
QuoteAlbator, French Hybrid carrier laid down 1920
Displacement:
34.984 t light; 36.733 t standard; 40.255 t normal; 43.072 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
688,98 ft / 685,70 ft x 114,83 ft x 29,53 ft (normal load)
210,00 m / 209,00 m x 35,00 m x 9,00 m
Armament:
6 - 16,14" / 410 mm guns (2x3 guns), 2.535,32lbs / 1.150,00kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1920 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 16.709 lbs / 7.579 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
10 - 24,0" / 609,6 mm submerged torpedo tubes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14,5" / 368 mm 308,56 ft / 94,05 m 24,00 ft / 7,32 m
Ends: 3,00" / 76 mm 377,11 ft / 114,94 m 12,00 ft / 3,66 m
Upper: 3,00" / 76 mm 308,56 ft / 94,05 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 69% of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2,00" / 51 mm 308,56 ft / 94,05 m 27,92 ft / 8,51 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15,0" / 381 mm 8,00" / 203 mm 15,0" / 381 mm
2nd: 2,00" / 51 mm 1,00" / 25 mm 3,00" / 76 mm
3rd: 0,50" / 13 mm 0,50" / 13 mm -
- Armour deck: 4,00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 15,00" / 381 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 57.734 shp / 43.070 Kw = 23,00 kts
Range 9.000nm at 16,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6.339 tons
Complement:
1.420 - 1.847
Cost:
£7,030 million / $28,119 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1.747 tons, 4,3%
Armour: 13.567 tons, 33,7%
- Belts: 6.089 tons, 15,1%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 638 tons, 1,6%
- Armament: 2.175 tons, 5,4%
- Armour Deck: 4.285 tons, 10,6%
- Conning Tower: 380 tons, 0,9%
Machinery: 2.019 tons, 5,0%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15.532 tons, 38,6%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.271 tons, 13,1%
Miscellaneous weights: 2.120 tons, 5,3%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
65.165 lbs / 29.558 Kg = 31,0 x 16,1 " / 410 mm shells or 11,4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22
Metacentric height 8,8 ft / 2,7 m
Roll period: 16,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,41
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,86
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0,606
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,97 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26,19 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Forecastle (20%): 18,04 ft / 5,50 m
- Mid (50%): 18,04 ft / 5,50 m
- Quarterdeck (35%): 42,65 ft / 13,00 m (18,04 ft / 5,50 m before break)
- Stern: 42,65 ft / 13,00 m
- Average freeboard: 27,05 ft / 8,25 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71,9%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140,2%
Waterplane Area: 57.911 Square feet or 5.380 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 196 lbs/sq ft or 959 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,93
- Longitudinal: 1,91
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
250 ton FC
25Ton Long range marconi
25 ton ERADe
100ton Crew Comfort
200 ton firefighting and damage control facilities (paranoïa with all that avgas)
1400 ton aviation space. 37 aircraft accommodated.
10 underwater torpedo tubes with 3 loads.
Albator? Hmmmm. Lord Harlock may pay attention to this vessel (Or perhaps his son will).
Feels like a good year for Harlock (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LX_cXL6njY))
Grumble....get to work on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-201_class_submarine
Talk to Walter about it. Can't have it before 1938 though....
QuoteThanks for the remark. 37 aircraft require 1369 tons of misc weight. Meaning I've 31 tons left. What about a broadside of 5 underwater 24" torpedos?
If a carrier gets to within torpedo range, she presumably has better things to do than bringing torpedo tubes to bear. Running away, for example.
True, But the best torpedo attack is from the front.
So, 2 tripple launchers each side will disrupt that.
QuoteAlbator, French Hybrid carrier laid down 1920
Displacement:
34.984 t light; 36.733 t standard; 40.255 t normal; 43.072 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
688,98 ft / 685,70 ft x 114,83 ft x 29,53 ft (normal load)
210,00 m / 209,00 m x 35,00 m x 9,00 m
Armament:
6 - 16,14" / 410 mm guns (2x3 guns), 2.535,32lbs / 1.150,00kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1920 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 16.709 lbs / 7.579 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
12 - 24,0" / 609,6 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14,5" / 368 mm 308,56 ft / 94,05 m 24,00 ft / 7,32 m
Ends: 3,00" / 76 mm 377,11 ft / 114,94 m 12,00 ft / 3,66 m
Upper: 3,00" / 76 mm 308,56 ft / 94,05 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 69% of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2,00" / 51 mm 308,56 ft / 94,05 m 27,92 ft / 8,51 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15,0" / 381 mm 8,00" / 203 mm 15,0" / 381 mm
2nd: 2,00" / 51 mm 1,00" / 25 mm 3,00" / 76 mm
3rd: 0,50" / 13 mm 0,50" / 13 mm -
- Armour deck: 4,00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 15,00" / 381 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 57.734 shp / 43.070 Kw = 23,00 kts
Range 9.000nm at 16,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6.339 tons
Complement:
1.420 - 1.847
Cost:
£7,030 million / $28,119 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1.747 tons, 4,3%
Armour: 13.567 tons, 33,7%
- Belts: 6.089 tons, 15,1%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 638 tons, 1,6%
- Armament: 2.175 tons, 5,4%
- Armour Deck: 4.285 tons, 10,6%
- Conning Tower: 380 tons, 0,9%
Machinery: 2.019 tons, 5,0%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15.532 tons, 38,6%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.271 tons, 13,1%
Miscellaneous weights: 2.120 tons, 5,3%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
69.395 lbs / 31.477 Kg = 33,0 x 16,1 " / 410 mm shells or 12,6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22
Metacentric height 8,8 ft / 2,7 m
Roll period: 16,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,41
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,87
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0,606
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,97 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26,19 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Forecastle (20%): 18,04 ft / 5,50 m
- Mid (50%): 18,04 ft / 5,50 m
- Quarterdeck (35%): 42,65 ft / 13,00 m (18,04 ft / 5,50 m before break)
- Stern: 42,65 ft / 13,00 m
- Average freeboard: 27,05 ft / 8,25 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 67,5%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120,9%
Waterplane Area: 57.911 Square feet or 5.380 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 196 lbs/sq ft or 959 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,93
- Longitudinal: 1,93
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
250 ton FC
25Ton Long range marconi
25 ton ERADe
100ton Crew Comfort
200 ton firefighting and damage control facilities (paranoïa with all that avgas)
1400 ton aviation space. 37 aircraft accommodated.
4 tripple torpedo tubes with 2 loads mounted side forward.
The extreme tall belt is inclined at 12°
NEDS! Or are these 37 aircraft float planes? Even so, on a hull only 210m long, I suspect those 3 main gun mounts and all those aircraft would have great difficulty coexisting. This ship is 17m shorter than the KGVs, for instance.
Nope, I was thinking about the smaller 1916 Italian single engine fighters as mainstay of the ships compliment at the start. Maybe a stronger engine and a reinforced fuselage to cope with the stresses involved in carrier operations.
But it's 2 main gun mounts, 2 tripples, a Nelson set with C turret missing. With a reasonable slow speed of 23 kts it means not much hullspace is needed for the normaly BIG things, like main gun barbettes ,magazines and engines.
The entire quarterdeck, 35% of the entire ship is 11 meter high hull. I dare to say that 73*20 meter is a nice hangar for single engined biplanes.
I wish I had better drawing skills.
But I know, the flightdeck is too short for good , reasonably safe operation. On the other hand, with 70 meter of runway, a lot of lighter biplanes can take of in relative ease.
For that, we'll need a complete redesigned superstructure, with the flightdeck ending at/over the superfiring main gun turret, and that mother is 7 meter above main deck, meaning flight deck should top 13-14m. Moving bridge and stacks to one side, and main secundary cluster below the flight deck balancing the weight of the bridge, mast and flues.
All in all, a modernisation in 1929 or so, if I start building her in 1920.
and the mini-me award goes to...
QuoteAlaina Class, Irish Reconnaissance Aeroplane Carrier laid down 1920 (Engine 1912)
Displacement:
2,189 t light; 2,243 t standard; 2,500 t normal; 2,705 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
334.00 ft / 325.00 ft x 32.00 ft x 14.00 ft (normal load)
101.80 m / 99.06 m x 9.75 m x 4.27 m
Armament:
2 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount
16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1920 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 72 lbs / 33 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 0.50" / 13 mm 243.75 ft / 74.30 m 6.79 ft / 2.07 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 0.10" / 3 mm 243.75 ft / 74.30 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.25" / 6 mm -
2nd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
- Armour deck: 0.50" / 13 mm, Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 17,709 shp / 13,211 Kw = 25.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 462 tons
Complement:
176 - 229
Cost:
£0.433 million / $1.730 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 9 tons, 0.4 %
Armour: 124 tons, 5.0 %
- Belts: 42 tons, 1.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 4 tons, 0.2 %
- Armour Deck: 70 tons, 2.8 %
- Conning Tower: 8 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 706 tons, 28.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 950 tons, 38.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 311 tons, 12.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 16.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,735 lbs / 1,241 Kg = 85.5 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.03
Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 13.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.12
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise aft of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.601
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.16 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 33
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.14 ft / 0.04 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forecastle (10 %): 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Mid (20 %): 17.00 ft / 5.18 m (20.00 ft / 6.10 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Stern: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 19.48 ft / 5.94 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 161.5 %
Waterplane Area: 7,613 Square feet or 707 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 48 lbs/sq ft or 232 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.80
- Longitudinal: 7.47
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Max Aircraft: 9 wheeled biplanes
The takeing off deck is above the aft deck and quarterdeck. Gunpoweder or Mechanical catapults may be fitted
there is no way you could reasonably hope to consistently land planes on that deck. Sure, a great pilot under just the right conditions might be able to do it. get a greenhorn to try it, and you have problems. Only really usable in coastal waters near land airbases. O wait...who has a lot of those... ;)
Quote from: Guinness on September 20, 2010, 08:30:53 PM
NEDS! Or are these 37 aircraft float planes? Even so, on a hull only 210m long, I suspect those 3 main gun mounts and all those aircraft would have great difficulty coexisting. This ship is 17m shorter than the KGVs, for instance.
That is not the only problem. Take-off and landing problems (established in the KMS Crapfest storyline as early as 2H1919) make me wonder about launch and recovery for air circuit cycles for such a design. The Dutch still have not established this completely (we are still in the superstructure takeoff and landing platform testing stages) but the KM now have indications that you will have takeoff problems with this design.
I doubt the KM is telling France, even if they
(and we can presume the Dutch secret service can) have the plans and say
"D'oh"
Quote from: maddox on September 21, 2010, 01:56:01 AM
I doubt the KM is telling France, even if they (and we can presume the Dutch secret service can) have the plans and say "D'oh"
Of course the NRDN would be working on this. I should note that this is all out of character and is editorial. The other thing is that there is something called disinformation, where a proposed plan is leaked in the hopes that the naive might divert resources to test or fight it.
IC:
(Raises eyebrows.) There are those who think that something like a angled deck battleship carrier hybrid is a good idea. Let them build it and see.
Looking at the French Design the Empire likes it of course I would be reducing the number of aircraft and take off will be accomplished in 1921/22 with the use of Gunpoweder Catapults about 4 of them and landing will be accomplished in the lee of the ship.... ;)
Charles
- hopefully all Pilots to be issued Fireproof Underwear + Life Jackets ...... :D
Quote from: mentat on September 23, 2010, 08:25:58 AM
- hopefully all Pilots to be issued Fireproof Underwear + Life Jackets ...... :D
Quote100ton Crew Comfort
200 ton firefighting and damage control facilities (paranoïa with all that avgas)
I believe in that 300 ton total there could be a ton or 2 for asbestos diapers.
(http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af96/bikefish2/Albator-1.png)
Well... it certainly looks.... er..... French. ;D
that was the idea. the pic is messing with the gun scale really bad, they should all be the same size. Guess its what i get for using CAD instead of paint.
- the only Ffffrrrrench elements missing:
- Quads - doable??
- Tumblehome - but alas does not fit with either Quads or Flight Deck >:( :'(
Personal preference about the quads. Quad 15" turrets are about directly interchangable on the ship according to Springsharp.
And tumblehome is possible, just means the upper hull will slope inwards to the diameter of the barbettes, with the armored boxes of the secundaries zipping up as warts. But I'm afraid that's a tad above my drawing skills, and I'm afraid Snip, who dit a good job won't be happy to change the design.
and considering I have no idea what Tumblehome is I would need a reference drawing most likly. One of the early tries at this one looked like Shintano, and Essex and Dunkirk got way wasted at a party and ended up together...
Quote from: snip on September 24, 2010, 10:00:02 AM
and considering I have no idea what Tumblehome is I would need a reference drawing most likly. One of the early tries at this one looked like Shintano, and Essex and Dunkirk got way wasted at a party and ended up together...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumblehome
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/Jaureguiberry_1915_AWM_J06004.jpeg/220px-Jaureguiberry_1915_AWM_J06004.jpeg)
(http://www.armybase.us/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/zumwalt-destroyer-300x196.jpg)
The beam of a ship narrows from the water line as you follow the cross section curve up to the weather deck. It has enormous stability advantages in rolling moment, but it also has one very deadly liability. If you heel over too far you cannot recover as you might with a U hull or a flared V. You head straight for the bottom as the Russians discovered at Tsushima.
The lower buoyancy reserve of the upper hull is another danger. Once the hull lowers in the water due damage, every mm lower gives less floation than the previous one, so, even sinking on an even keel goes from "slow" to fast.
In effect tumblehome is an elegant solution to save topweight, makes a "fierce" looking vessel, but is not a recommended style for warships.
It's one of the big objections to the modern wavepiercing desings for use in warships.
seems like it would be really hard to draw...i think its a bit beyond what I can do with a 2D program. The one I have does have 3D capabilaties, but I have no idea how they work ???
I have a few 3d programs specifically for ships, but creating such ships would take more than a while, time I'm not inclined to give away at this busy moment.
QuoteI have a few 3d programs specifically for ships, but creating such ships would take more than a while, time I'm not inclined to give away at this busy moment.
I know what you mean...
;)
Jef
Jeff, I'm gratefull for Occitanie.
Armada synoptics (Pacific & Atlantic) always in progress...
;)
hey hey - was only joking about the tumblehome ;D
- but might be good for a submersible carrier ......
A lot cheaper and more expendable. Also ment to flesh out the screen for Montmedy.
Quote999, French scout aviation cruiser laid down 1920
Displacement:
11.000 t light; 11.328 t standard; 13.094 t normal; 14.507 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
557,74 ft / 554,46 ft x 78,74 ft x 19,69 ft (normal load)
170,00 m / 169,00 m x 24,00 m x 6,00 m
Armament:
6 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (2x3 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 580 lbs / 263 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4,00" / 102 mm 277,23 ft / 84,50 m 17,00 ft / 5,18 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 77% of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4,00" / 102 mm 2,00" / 51 mm 5,00" / 127 mm
2nd: 0,50" / 13 mm 0,50" / 13 mm -
- Armour deck: 2,00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 4,00" / 102 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 69.038 shp / 51.502 Kw = 28,50 kts
Range 9.000nm at 16,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3.178 tons
Complement:
611 - 795
Cost:
£1,840 million / $7,358 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 66 tons, 0,5%
Armour: 2.215 tons, 16,9%
- Belts: 862 tons, 6,6%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 195 tons, 1,5%
- Armour Deck: 1.110 tons, 8,5%
- Conning Tower: 48 tons, 0,4%
Machinery: 2.414 tons, 18,4%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5.005 tons, 38,2%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.094 tons, 16,0%
Miscellaneous weights: 1.300 tons, 9,9%
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
26.030 lbs / 11.807 Kg = 310,9 x 5,5 " / 140 mm shells or 2,9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,18
Metacentric height 4,8 ft / 1,5 m
Roll period: 15,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 92 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,11
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,83
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise aft of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,533
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,04 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23,55 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Forecastle (12%): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Mid (40%): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m (36,09 ft / 11,00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (38%): 36,09 ft / 11,00 m
- Stern: 36,09 ft / 11,00 m
- Average freeboard: 29,69 ft / 9,05 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75,5%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 251,6%
Waterplane Area: 29.995 Square feet or 2.787 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 148%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 502 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,89
- Longitudinal: 2,92
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
900 tons, air compliment of 30 (hangar is aft, the rise on the quarterdeck- what is 68m long)
100 tons cruiser Firecontrol
25 ton long range marconi
25 ton ERADe
50 ton ASW (hydrophones tied in to the ERADe system)
100 ton marines -quarters (marines have a damage control post during battle)
100 ton damage control (especialy firefighting, paranoïa concerning the avgas)