This cruiser is nearly 10yo.
The first major refit is comming...
---------------------------
The original SS
6000T cruiser, Peru Protected Cruiser laid down 1911
Displacement:
6 000 t light; 6 400 t standard; 7 101 t normal; 7 663 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
390.42 ft / 390.42 ft x 71.52 ft x 17.28 ft (normal load)
119.00 m / 119.00 m x 21.80 m x 5.27 m
Armament:
4 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
4 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1911 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4 089 lbs / 1 855 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 110
4 - 21.0" / 533 mm submerged torpedo tubes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 246.06 ft / 75.00 m 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
Ends: 2.36" / 60 mm 131.23 ft / 40.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
13.12 ft / 4.00 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.51" / 140 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 1.57" / 40 mm - -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
- Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 18 000 shp / 13 425 Kw = 21.51 kts
Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 263 tons
Complement:
386 - 502
Cost:
£0.742 million / $2.966 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 511 tons, 7.2 %
Armour: 1 322 tons, 18.6 %
- Belts: 568 tons, 8.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 305 tons, 4.3 %
- Armour Deck: 412 tons, 5.8 %
- Conning Tower: 38 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 730 tons, 10.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 276 tons, 46.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 102 tons, 15.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 160 tons, 2.3 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8 618 lbs / 3 909 Kg = 10.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 14.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.16
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.515
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.46 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.76 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Mid (40 %): 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Stern: 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Average freeboard: 15.86 ft / 4.83 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140.0 %
Waterplane Area: 18 863 Square feet or 1 752 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 627 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.30
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
------------------------
What did you do with this ship?
1) Change armament to 2T4x230
2) Add an other 12" turret.
3) Increase the speed.
4) Nothing & affect her to coastal work
5) other idea....
Jef
12" guns on a 6Kton ship... Replace those 2 twin turret 12"'ers with 2 tripples or even quads (could an 8" quad fit?)
Quote...Replace those 2 twin turret 12"'ers with 2 tripples or even quads (could an 8" quad fit?)
The ship increase from 6000 to 6020t with the same speed; 21.5kts.
-----------------------------------------
Here is the bigger rebuilt with a 3rd 12" turret fore.
The 2) nd possibility
fast drawing
(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2772/19206000tto8300ttapacyu.jpg) (http://img153.imageshack.us/i/19206000tto8300ttapacyu.jpg/)
She looks deadly.
I can't look at the name of this ship without thinking of this guy:
(http://patterico.com/files/2008/11/tupac.jpg)
At any rate....
I'll admit that I've never been a fan of the Escort Cruiser concept. It's hard for me to not think of them as just lightly armed and armored pre-dreadnoughts for the most part.
I don't think the extra turret is worth it, nor is regunning with something smaller. How long are those 12" guns?
If the guns aren't 35 caliber or something, I'd just give her an overhaul, maybe revise her secondary battery and add some AA, and that's about it. It's not a huge ship, so it doesn't represent that big an investment up to this point.
Alternatively, stripped of most of her armament, she might make a useful tender or seaplane carrier or something.
Quote...I can't look at the name of this ship without thinking of this guy...
As I know , an Emperor is not a guy
>:(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%BApac_Inca_Yupanqui
Rebuilt to work with the AC Manco Capac-24.6kts
--------------------------
Tupac Yupanqui-com 1912H2
3T4x234+8x120+8x40+6TTx533
New hull & Armament: 8400t - 6000t = 2400t; 2.4BP; 2.4$
Rebuilt Package: 0.6BP + 1.5$
Total rebuilt: 3BP - 3.9$
-------------------------------
6000T to 8400T, Peru AC laid down 1911 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
8 400 t light; 9 009 t standard; 9 716 t normal; 10 281 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
488.85 ft / 488.85 ft x 71.52 ft (Bulges 78.08 ft) x 17.30 ft (normal load)
149.00 m / 149.00 m x 21.80 m (Bulges 23.80 m) x 5.27 m
Armament:
12 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (3x4 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1911 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4 885 lbs / 2 216 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 298.56 ft / 91.00 m 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
Ends: 2.36" / 60 mm 164.04 ft / 50.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
26.25 ft / 8.00 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 6.30" / 160 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 1.57" / 40 mm - -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
- Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 34 000 shp / 25 364 Kw = 24.63 kts
Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 272 tons
Complement:
489 - 636
Cost:
£0.984 million / $3.937 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 611 tons, 6.3 %
Armour: 1 720 tons, 17.7 %
- Belts: 682 tons, 7.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 476 tons, 4.9 %
- Armour Deck: 516 tons, 5.3 %
- Conning Tower: 46 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 1 267 tons, 13.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 600 tons, 47.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 316 tons, 13.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 202 tons, 2.1 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11 529 lbs / 5 229 Kg = 31.1 x 9.1 " / 230 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 17.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.515
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.26 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.11 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 23.62 ft / 7.20 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m (14.44 ft / 4.40 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (16 %): 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Stern: 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Average freeboard: 16.80 ft / 5.12 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129.5 %
Waterplane Area: 23 618 Square feet or 2 194 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 679 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.55
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
(http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/2623/1920tupacyupanqui8400t3.png) (http://img547.imageshack.us/i/1920tupacyupanqui8400t3.png/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
What rebuilt choose ?
Rebuilt from 6000t to 8400t
With 3T4x230 or 3T2x12"
------------------------------
Here are the SS
6000T to 8400T, NUS AC laid down 1911 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
8 400 t light; 9 009 t standard; 9 716 t normal; 10 281 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
488.85 ft / 488.85 ft x 71.52 ft (Bulges 78.08 ft) x 17.30 ft (normal load)
149.00 m / 149.00 m x 21.80 m (Bulges 23.80 m) x 5.27 m
Armament:
12 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (3x4 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1911 Model
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1911 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1911 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4 885 lbs / 2 216 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 298.56 ft / 91.00 m 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
Ends: 2.36" / 60 mm 164.04 ft / 50.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
26.25 ft / 8.00 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 6.30" / 160 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 1.57" / 40 mm - -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
- Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 34 000 shp / 25 364 Kw = 24.63 kts
Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 272 tons
Complement:
489 - 636
Cost:
£0.984 million / $3.937 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 611 tons, 6.3 %
Armour: 1 720 tons, 17.7 %
- Belts: 682 tons, 7.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 476 tons, 4.9 %
- Armour Deck: 516 tons, 5.3 %
- Conning Tower: 46 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 1 267 tons, 13.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 600 tons, 47.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 316 tons, 13.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 202 tons, 2.1 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11 529 lbs / 5 229 Kg = 31.1 x 9.1 " / 230 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 17.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.515
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.26 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.11 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 23.62 ft / 7.20 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m (14.44 ft / 4.40 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (16 %): 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Stern: 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Average freeboard: 16.80 ft / 5.12 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129.5 %
Waterplane Area: 23 618 Square feet or 2 194 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 679 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.55
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Rebuilt to work with the AC Manco Capac-24.6kts
--------------------------
Tupac Yupanqui-com 1912H2
3T4x234+8x120+8x40+6TTx533
New hull & Armament: 8400t - 6000t = 2400t - 2.4BP - 2.4$
Rebuilt Package: 0.6BP + 1.5$
Total rebuilt: 3BP - 3.9$
---------------------------------------------------------------------
With 3T2x12"
6000 to 8400T , NUS AC laid down 1911 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
8 400 t light; 8 942 t standard; 9 645 t normal; 10 208 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
490.16 ft / 490.16 ft x 71.52 ft (Bulges 77.43 ft) x 17.27 ft (normal load)
149.40 m / 149.40 m x 21.80 m (Bulges 23.60 m) x 5.26 m
Armament:
6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1911 Model
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1911 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1911 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5 614 lbs / 2 546 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 110
6 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 314.96 ft / 96.00 m 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
Ends: 2.36" / 60 mm 164.04 ft / 50.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
11.15 ft / 3.40 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.51" / 140 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 1.57" / 40 mm - -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
- Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 33 599 shp / 25 065 Kw = 24.60 kts
Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 266 tons
Complement:
486 - 632
Cost:
£1.059 million / $4.235 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 702 tons, 7.3 %
Armour: 1 705 tons, 17.7 %
- Belts: 706 tons, 7.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 435 tons, 4.5 %
- Armour Deck: 517 tons, 5.4 %
- Conning Tower: 46 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 1 252 tons, 13.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 580 tons, 47.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 245 tons, 12.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 162 tons, 1.7 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
10 739 lbs / 4 871 Kg = 12.4 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 16.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.515
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.14 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Quarterdeck (16 %): 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Stern: 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Average freeboard: 16.28 ft / 4.96 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124.5 %
Waterplane Area: 23 681 Square feet or 2 200 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 681 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.51
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Tupac Yupanqui-com 1912H2
3T2x12"+8x120+4x40+6TTx533
New hull & Armament: 8400t - 6000t = 2400t - 2.4BP - 2.4$
Rebuilt Package: 0.6BP + 1.5$
Total rebuilt: 3BP - 3.9$
Hello,
I am noticing alot of problems with the rebuild. Costs and capabilities. Length change is 10% max.
QuoteThe bow may be lengthened by up to 5% of overall length. A new section may be added amidships, up to 5% of overall length.
Cost would be(if possible)6000 to 8400tons= 2400tons =$4.8/4.8BP
QuoteBP cost = double the change in overall light displacement; $ cost is equal to BP.
Armament would cost an additional 600tons(for 230mm) =$1.2/0.6BP approximately
QuoteBP cost = (tonnage/1000); $ cost = twice the BP cost
Machinery would cost an additional 1200tons =$2.4/1.2BP
QuoteBP cost = (tonnage/1000); $ cost = twice the BP cost
plus basic cost($1.5/0.6BP) = $9.9 and 7.2BP
Costs would actually be quite different for this(as you still have new armored turret costs. Hull would be a bit less as bulges are cheaper.
I have found that unless they are minor, rebuilds are hardly worth it. Hope your others have had more accurate cost estimates.
Quote...The bow may be lengthened by up to 5% of overall length...
Lenght was 119m - new lenght are - 149m...
OK, Did the Modos reject the 8400t rebuilt projects ?Jef
119m + 5%= 124.95m
124.95m + 5%(0f 119 since you have to use the starting length)= 130.9m
Me thinks you're a little over there Jef
Quote from: Jefgte on November 03, 2010, 04:41:43 PM
Quote...The bow may be lengthened by up to 5% of overall length...
Lenght was 119m - new lenght are - 149m...
OK, Did the Modos reject the 8400t rebuilt projects ?
Jef
Honestly, you'd have to remind me about that one, and I'll look at both.
Generally speaking, I try to review various ships, proposals, etc. to make sure they are "legal", but I don't always have time. In theory we should all be peer-reviewing each others designs.
Ok, I crunched the numbers. Some of this is based on guesswork (for instance, I guestimated the weights of new armament and armor additions), and this doesn't include any scrap value. First numerical column is the difference in weights between old and new in that category.
| Base Cost: | | $1.50 | 0.60 |
| Armament: | 611 | $1.22 | 0.61 |
| Machinery: | 1267 | $2.53 | 1.27 |
| Armor: | 700 | $0.70 | 0.70 |
| Other Functional Misc: | 42 | $0.04 | 0.04 |
| Hull, Fittings, and Equipment: | 1328 | $4.80 | 4.80 |
| Fuel, Ammunition, Stores: | 214 | $0.11 | 0.00 |
| Other Non-Functional Misc: | 0 | $0.00 | 0.00 |
| | | |
| Scrap Value: | 0 | $0.00 | 0.00 |
| | | |
| Total Costs: | | $10.91 | 8.02 |
| | | |
| Time to Complete: | | 12 | |
Note that the big killers are the base charge ($1.50 and 0.6BP) and the hull and machinery ($2.53 and 1.57BP and $4.80 and 4.80BP respectively).
This is a reconstruction, btw.
I confess that I had not done the calculation in detail.
Guinness thank you for your wisdom and your time.
The challenge is now to have this Escort Cruiser (La Sombra de Atahualpa) with reassess performances and, not too expensive.
Jef
For the rebuild with 3 twin 12-inch turrets, shouldn't there be one superfiring?
QuoteFor the rebuild with 3 twin 12-inch turrets, shouldn't there be one superfiring?
Without new Engines
6000t to 7375t, Peru EC laid down 1911
Displacement:
7 375 t light; 7 898 t standard; 8 695 t normal; 9 334 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
429.46 ft / 429.46 ft x 71.52 ft (Bulges 77.43 ft) x 17.77 ft (normal load)
130.90 m / 130.90 m x 21.80 m (Bulges 23.60 m) x 5.42 m
Armament:
6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1911 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1911 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5 614 lbs / 2 546 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 110
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 278.87 ft / 85.00 m 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
Ends: 2.36" / 60 mm 131.23 ft / 40.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
19.36 ft / 5.90 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.51" / 140 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 1.57" / 40 mm - -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
- Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 17 998 shp / 13 426 Kw = 21.02 kts
Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 436 tons
Complement:
449 - 585
Cost:
£0.950 million / $3.799 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 702 tons, 8.1 %
Armour: 1 568 tons, 18.0 %
- Belts: 621 tons, 7.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 451 tons, 5.2 %
- Armour Deck: 453 tons, 5.2 %
- Conning Tower: 43 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 730 tons, 8.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 214 tons, 48.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 320 tons, 15.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 160 tons, 1.8 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
10 356 lbs / 4 697 Kg = 12.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 16.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.19
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.515
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.55 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.72 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.64 ft / 6.90 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 17.55 ft / 5.35 m
- Mid (50 %): 13.94 ft / 4.25 m
- Quarterdeck (16 %): 13.94 ft / 4.25 m
- Stern: 13.94 ft / 4.25 m
- Average freeboard: 15.61 ft / 4.76 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130.2 %
Waterplane Area: 20 749 Square feet or 1 928 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 147 lbs/sq ft or 717 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.92
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
With 3T3x230 on a 130m hull
Without new engines
6000T to 6480T, NUS EC laid down 1911
Displacement:
6 480 t light; 7 067 t standard; 7 812 t normal; 8 408 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
429.46 ft / 429.46 ft x 71.52 ft x 17.29 ft (normal load)
130.90 m / 130.90 m x 21.80 m x 5.27 m
Armament:
9 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (3x3 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1911 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3 779 lbs / 1 714 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
6 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 278.87 ft / 85.00 m 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
Ends: 2.36" / 60 mm 131.23 ft / 40.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
19.36 ft / 5.90 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.51" / 140 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 1.57" / 40 mm - -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
- Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 18 000 shp / 13 428 Kw = 21.44 kts
Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 341 tons
Complement:
415 - 540
Cost:
£0.726 million / $2.903 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 472 tons, 6.0 %
Armour: 1 529 tons, 19.6 %
- Belts: 621 tons, 8.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 414 tons, 5.3 %
- Armour Deck: 453 tons, 5.8 %
- Conning Tower: 40 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 731 tons, 9.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 548 tons, 45.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 332 tons, 17.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 2.6 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11 066 lbs / 5 020 Kg = 29.8 x 9.1 " / 230 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 15.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 78 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.29
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.515
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.72 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Quarterdeck (16 %): 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Stern: 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Average freeboard: 16.09 ft / 4.91 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.0 %
Waterplane Area: 20 749 Square feet or 1 928 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 126 lbs/sq ft or 616 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.89
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
-------------------------------------------------------
With 3T2x275 (New modern gun from GC) on a 130m hull
Without new engines
6000T to 6720T , NUS Escort Cruiser laid down 1911
Displacement:
6 720 t light; 7 201 t standard; 7 953 t normal; 8 555 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
429.46 ft / 429.46 ft x 71.52 ft x 17.60 ft (normal load)
130.90 m / 130.90 m x 21.80 m x 5.36 m
Armament:
6 - 10.83" / 275 mm guns (3x2 guns), 661.39lbs / 300.00kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
4 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1911 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1911 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4 609 lbs / 2 091 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 122
6 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 278.87 ft / 85.00 m 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
Ends: 2.36" / 60 mm 131.23 ft / 40.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
19.36 ft / 5.90 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.51" / 140 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 1.57" / 40 mm - -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
- Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 17 996 shp / 13 425 Kw = 21.38 kts
Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 354 tons
Complement:
420 - 547
Cost:
£0.805 million / $3.218 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 556 tons, 7.0 %
Armour: 1 527 tons, 19.2 %
- Belts: 621 tons, 7.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 412 tons, 5.2 %
- Armour Deck: 453 tons, 5.7 %
- Conning Tower: 41 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 730 tons, 9.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 714 tons, 46.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 233 tons, 15.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 192 tons, 2.4 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
10 316 lbs / 4 679 Kg = 16.3 x 10.8 " / 275 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 15.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.24
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.515
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.72 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.64 ft / 6.90 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Mid (40 %): 14.11 ft / 4.30 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 14.11 ft / 4.30 m
- Stern: 14.11 ft / 4.30 m
- Average freeboard: 15.51 ft / 4.73 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.0 %
Waterplane Area: 20 749 Square feet or 1 928 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 133 lbs/sq ft or 648 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.88
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
I'm really on the fence here. The 9.06-inch quads and 10.83-inch twins can put a lot of shells on target but won't be as useful against enemy BB's. The twin 12-inch version has more punch but obviously can't put down as many shells.
However, given the thin armor on these ships I'd plan on staying away from emeny BB's as that's a losing proposition. The 9.06-inch quads are probably the best bet here.
Quote...The 9.06-inch quads are probably the best bet here.
I agree.
Remove the 2T2x12" & install in place, 2T4x230 is the best choice.
The hull does not need rebuilt, I have just to change the 2 turrets.
That is also an economical rebuilt.
6000T cruiser, Peru Escort Cruiser laid down 1911
Displacement:
6 000 t light; 6 370 t standard; 7 070 t normal; 7 630 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
390.42 ft / 390.42 ft x 71.52 ft x 17.21 ft (normal load)
119.00 m / 119.00 m x 21.80 m x 5.25 m
Armament:
8 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (2x4 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1911 Model
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
4 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1911 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1911 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1911 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3 611 lbs / 1 638 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 110
4 - 21.0" / 533 mm submerged torpedo tubes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 259.19 ft / 79.00 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Ends: 2.36" / 60 mm 131.23 ft / 40.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.51" / 140 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 1.57" / 40 mm - -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
- Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 17 956 shp / 13 395 Kw = 21.51 kts
Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 260 tons
Complement:
385 - 501
Cost:
£0.691 million / $2.765 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 451 tons, 6.4 %
Armour: 1 470 tons, 20.8 %
- Belts: 727 tons, 10.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 293 tons, 4.1 %
- Armour Deck: 412 tons, 5.8 %
- Conning Tower: 37 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 729 tons, 10.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 120 tons, 44.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 071 tons, 15.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 230 tons, 3.3 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9 135 lbs / 4 144 Kg = 24.6 x 9.1 " / 230 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 14.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.19
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.515
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.46 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.76 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.38 ft / 6.82 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.11 ft / 5.52 m
- Mid (40 %): 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Stern: 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Average freeboard: 15.93 ft / 4.85 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140.9 %
Waterplane Area: 18 863 Square feet or 1 752 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 122 lbs/sq ft or 598 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.25
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Does this include updated the hull with 1916 engines or retaining the originals?
QuoteDoes this include updated the hull with 1916 engines or retaining the originals?
Original engines...
Makes sense if you're trying to keep the cost down...
QuoteMakes sense if you're trying to keep the cost down...
That's right, I just change the main armament.
Same hull - same engines but new main guns.
Jef
What would the diameter of the quad 9" would be in comparison to the twin 12"?
Ext diam. of the barbette for the twin 12" is:
9.00m - 29' 6".
---------------------------------
For info, ext diam. of the barbettes for the twin 230mm on the AC Shinchi Roca is:
7.00m - 23'
---------------------------------
T4x230 drawing is in progress...
Jef
Here is the top view for T4x230 & T2x305
T2x305 ext barbette diam is 9m (for Peru & 8m for Argentina)
1m between 2 points.
I think that there are no mechanical problem to change from T2x305 to T4x230
(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/4804/t2x305tot4x234.jpg) (http://img822.imageshack.us/i/t2x305tot4x234.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Jef
Q: Is it a true "QUAD" or a double twin, like the French ones?
A: It is a double twin -2M2- on the same barbette to form a T4.
The 2 mounts are separated with a bulkhead & the fire of the 2x2 mounts is independant.
So, there are no interferences in the shells trajectories.
Jef
That would make the turrets too cramped. You have to work two 23cm guns in a 4m wide space. With common sleeve it might be possible, but not with independent elevation.
Quote...but not with independent elevation.
I agree, the 2 guns are mounted on the same cradle.
That is easier to reload, the hoist is on the middle of the 2 guns.
Jef
guns 1 & 2 - distance 1.2m - same cradle
guns 2 & 3 - distance 2m
guns 3 & 4 - distance 1.2m - same cradle
Jef