So, I decided I'd make a list of the leader of each nation, PC and NPC, that has it's own thread on the board. However, I've had some difficulty coming up with everyone. Some have changed in news events but not been changed in encyclopedias, others (mostly NPCs) were never listed. Here's what I have so far, anyone volunteering to add would be appreciated. Thanks.
Burma: King ?
Greece: King Alphonso I
Khazaria: Khan Batyi
Mexico: El Presidente Pancho Villa
Mughal: Emperor Furrukhsiyar II
Oman: Sultan ?
Siam: King Vajiravudh Rama VI
ESC: President Jonas Silbertann
Bavaria: King Ludwig III
Bharat: King/Emperor ?
RRC: President Hu Hanmin
CSA: President J. Edgar Hoover
DKB: Kaiser Friedrich IV
Egypt: King ?
Firenj: Emperor Thrawn
France: Premier Galpoux
GC: President Rey Alizandro
A-H: Kaiser Stefan II
Iberia: Emperor Jamie I
l'Indochine: President Sarraut
Eire: President Garrison Ahern
Italia: Emperor Armedo Ferdinando Camila
Japan: Emperor Mikage
Maoria: King Yuuno I
MK: Emperor Kaili
NUS: El Presidente Jorge Martinez y Garcia
Netherlands: Queen Wilhelmina (?)
Zion: Empress Zewditu
Orange: ?
Ottoman: Sultan Abdülhamid II
Persia: Sultan ?
Rohan: King Theocro III
Rumania: Queen Flowranis
Russia: Emperor Andrei Alexandrovich Romanov
Swizterland: Lord Henry
Ukraine: Emperor Velikiy Knyaz Kirill Nikolaevitch Romanov
UNK: King ?
Flora Flowranis.....
Also, just a little note. In letters or in formal communications, she will go by Emperess Flowranis. In person, she will continue to go by Princess Flowranis.
I think the Zionist leader is Queen Askala Maryam.
New Switzerland => Anarchy. It's just too unstable. :D
Oman has a Sultan, TexanCowboy has good relations with that guy, as the Island of Masirah has become a "leased piece" and in Romanian hands.
Quote from: TexanCowboy on March 21, 2010, 10:30:26 AM
Flora Flowranis.....
Also, just a little note. In letters or in formal communications, she will go by Emperess Flowranis. In person, she will continue to go by Princess Flowranis.
Thanks I'll update
Quote from: TexanCowboy on March 21, 2010, 10:30:26 AM
I think the Zionist leader is Queen Askala Maryam.
IDK the ENTIRE Royal family was forced to vacate it's claims by the Treaty of Dar-es-Salaam so I have no idea who's in charge since the Triumvirate hasn't named a new gov't yet (4yrs later)
Oh, Oh *Raises Hand*.
Let me pick for, um..., reasons!
If Desertfox agrees, why not.
We need a functional world with logic , spurious logic somewere, but still logic.
Sam you are technicly correct on Rohan, although Eorl is serving as Prince Regant for his father during his "illness"
Concerning New Zion:
QuoteMarch 1st 1919
From: Sextus Aurelius Cotta Imperial Consul of Foreign Affairs.
To: Foreign Office Republic of France
Foreign Office Confederate States of America
Foreign Office Republic of Gran Columbia
Foreign Office Empire of Japan
Foreign Office Baltic Confederation
Sirs,
It has been 4 years since the signing of the Treaty of Dar Es Salaam and the Empire would like to thank all of your nations for the effort and time your citizens and leaders have put into creating the Treaty as well as trying to see that its tenants were fulfilled. After 4 years the State of New Zion continues to be in non-compliance with the vast majority of the steps they agreed to accomplish with the signing of the treaty.
The Empire no longer views it as necessary for the Empire of Japan, Baltic Confederation, or the Confederate States of America to waste their time, effort, and money attempting to guide the State of New Zion into fulfilling their treaty obligations.
The Empire wish' to inform all your Governments that the Empire does not at this time view the non-compliance of the New Zion as grounds for renewed hostilities. We will continue to watch the actions of New Zion carefully and will react to any future aggression or threat from that state in an appropriate manner congruent with that states actions.
Sextus Aurelius Cotta
It has been close to impossible to reach any accommodation in the negotiations between the oveerseeing powers and New Zion due to non-compliance of the New Zionite government.
The Maori royal household is:
Yuuno - His Royal Highness, King of the Maori, etc, etc. Only child of an only child, born 1891, crowned 1910. Accomplished linguist, fluent in Swiss and German and passable in something like a dozen other languages. He serves, effectively, as his own Royal Librarian as a hobby, and the Maori Royal Library system keeps redundant copies of every work it possesses, and has a quite considerable collection by any standard.
Aituaa - First Queen, the seniormost of Yuuno's three wives. Born 1893. Quarter-Norman from her mother's side, quarter-Confederate (the American sort) from her Father's. Expecting mother as of 1919H2; doctors say twins. Prime Minister of the Maori state, and the driving force behind much of the government's 'progressive' legal measures - food and drink standards, workplace safety regulations, etc. Reputation as a bleeding heart type as a result is well earned but misses that she's also prepared to be very, very ruthless.
Nanoha - Second Queen and Information Minister, responsible for education, propoganda... and intelligence work. Daughter of a traditional Maori warrior family, youngest of three, born 1894. Friendly and caring and very hardworking; fondest of the 'education' part of her job, and favors a quite sincere and 'aboveboard' approach to the propoganda, but can be very scary in her spymaster role. The criminal underworld fears her as the 'Devil Queen' for the way she's used her counterintel resources to hammer them.
Huripari - Third Queen and Minister of War, a political appointee but also a uniformed officer, respected by her subordinates on the General Staff, despite many of them being twice her age or more (born 1893), and wildly popular among the rank-and-file. Parents died when she was very young, in an accident that gave her a very noticable limp, and she was raised by an elderly grandfather and family retainers.
Quote from: maddox on March 21, 2010, 10:39:29 AM
Oman has a Sultan, TexanCowboy has good relations with that guy, as the Island of Masirah has become a "leased piece" and in Romanian hands.
Wonder what Orange thinks about that, since Oman is basically an Orange Colony.
The "Devil Queen" :o
Someone's getting "befriended".
Quote from: Valles on March 21, 2010, 05:37:39 PM
The Maori royal household is:
Yuuno - His Royal Highness, King of the Maori, etc, etc. Only child of an only child, born 1891, crowned 1910. Accomplished linguist, fluent in Swiss and German...
Is there such a thing as "Swiss"? Also, I think he had passable Norman during TR's visit to Maoria (unless that story is non-canon I guess).
Quote from: Guinness on March 21, 2010, 06:25:53 PM
Quote from: Valles on March 21, 2010, 05:37:39 PM
The Maori royal household is:
Yuuno - His Royal Highness, King of the Maori, etc, etc. Only child of an only child, born 1891, crowned 1910. Accomplished linguist, fluent in Swiss and German...
Is there such a thing as "Swiss"? Also, I think he had passable Norman during TR's visit to Maoria (unless that story is non-canon I guess).
For that matter is there German as we know it. By our own Nverse history the French expelled the Preußens after the 2nd Franco-Prussian War, which would have been BEFORE the unification of Germany. So it would have been the North German Confederation including Prussia losing to France, not "Germany". This would leave it open for many different dialects of the "Germanic" language to become quite common in Europe as well as the South Pacific and Eastern Africa, also South America (Parana pre sale and all).
It's entirely possible that the purest "German" in the Nverse is in the South Pacific, maybe even in New Switzerland, but Foxy has established (I think) that they speak a lot of Norman there.
I agree that something Nordic is likely quite prevalent in Northern Europe now (Danish maybe?). The Bavarians almost certainly speak something "Germanic", as do the Austrians, but are they mutually intelligible? No matter what, I imagine quite a bit of old Latin and modern Italian may have worked it's way into the local dialects.
But I've got enough trouble figuring out which of 5 or 6 or more available languages my characters are speaking these days... :) Hopefully they don't all end up speaking "Iberian".
They could be speaking Westron for all we know.
Quote from: Ithekro on March 21, 2010, 06:23:08 PM
The "Devil Queen" :o
Someone's getting "befriended".
Pin-pon! That's the plan!
And yes, Norman is among Yuuno's collection of 'secondary' languages, along with Westron, Spanish, French, and probably Japanese.
Or, in other words, he can speak the languages of his enemies without a hitch, and communicate with most nations bordering the Pacific. Whether any of these tongues line up particularly with their real-world counterparts is outside my interest or purview.
QuoteI think the Zionist leader is Queen Askala Maryam.
That is correct. Only the King and his immediate family (descendants) where prohibited from taking the throne. His mother (daughter of Menelik II and OTL Empress of Ethiopia) was not and currently holds the government's reigns. Note that the other countries where there just to observe... (not interfere).
As for the Swiss, I have not yet decided on who will be the president/chancellor yet.
Swiss is mainly Norman (English) with a mix of German, Spanish, Japanese, and French thrown in, oh and Chinese cus words... ;D
King of the Greeks =Alfonsos I, Carlos de Bourbon, Duke of San Jaime (emperors uncle)
Quote from: Desertfox on March 21, 2010, 07:23:04 PM
QuoteI think the Zionist leader is Queen Askala Maryam.
That is correct. Only the King and his immediate family (descendants) where prohibited from taking the throne. His mother (daughter of Menelik II and OTL Empress of Ethiopia) was not and currently holds the government's reigns. Note that the other countries where there just to observe... (not interfere)
Your mother isn't in your immediate family? Really? Huh. Every job I've ever had gives you leave for family emergencies and funeral of immediate family and they've all included mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, children, and grandparents. Weird.
Yes "Observe" the
selection(I.e. the consul of elders (Which all needed replaced anyway)choose a leader) or
election (the general population votes). No one
selected or
elected anyone. She just
'claimed' the throne.
Quote3. A neutral commission shall oversee selection of a new New Zion Government. The commission shall be comprised of three nations; one shall be appointed by Orange, one shall be appointed by Italia. These two appointees shall in turn agree upon a third nation to chair the commission.
4. Upon appointment or election of a new government, New Zion shall become party to international agreements regarding conduct of war and maritime law.
5. Upon appointment or election of a new government, New Zion shall declare itself to be constitutionally neutral, and shall enshrine such policy in a national constitution. New Zion shall not enter into military alliance or other cooperative military agreements, nor sell or lease lands, equipment or materials to third parties, nor allow basing of third party military forces within its borders.
They've also not done any of the highlighted items in the rest of the treaty to my knowledge either.
Quote
They've also not done any of the highlighted items in the rest of the treaty to my knowledge either.
Which is why my Polite Letter which Ledeper posted has informed the relevant parties that the Empire considers the treaty pretty much null and void. New Zion is completely non compliant in all aspects of the treaty so the Empire really doesnt see a need for Japan, CSA, and the ESC to bother with them any longer. ;)
Quote1. The King of New Zion abdicates and his line permanently renounces the throne of New Zion. Members of the Council of Elders appointed prior to 1 January 1914 shall resign, and not seek or accept re-appointment to the Council or other senior government bodies.
His line renounces the throne, that is his descendants, not his parents.
QuoteThey've also not done any of the highlighted items in the rest of the treaty to my knowledge either.
As I told, ctw before, all those items would have been done. I left New Zion about that time so I didn't actually go ahead and do it formally, but it would have been done, no reason not to do so.
Quote from: Desertfox on March 21, 2010, 09:50:42 PM
Quote1. The King of New Zion abdicates and his line permanently renounces the throne of New Zion. Members of the Council of Elders appointed prior to 1 January 1914 shall resign, and not seek or accept re-appointment to the Council or other senior government bodies.
His line renounces the throne, that is his descendants, not his parents.
QuoteThey've also not done any of the highlighted items in the rest of the treaty to my knowledge either.
As I told, ctw before, all those items would have been done. I left New Zion about that time so I didn't actually go ahead and do it formally, but it would have been done, no reason not to do so.
A Line has a begining and an End.... So yes it does include the Kings Parents but it doesnt much matter it is all a matter of opinion and conjecture.
She could have been elected as a Constitutional leader of some sort. Since her Line cannot be Monarchs anymore, she'd only have a honorary title of Queen since she was one, but she would therefore not be a royal leader of the place. her children cannot succeed her without being elected since it is not via line of succession anymore...the dynasty has been cut. Though that the Jews would be willing to have a monarch at all at this point seems odd to me.
Quote from: Sachmle on March 21, 2010, 06:37:49 PM
For that matter is there German as we know it. By our own Nverse history the French expelled the Preußens after the 2nd Franco-Prussian War, which would have been BEFORE the unification of Germany. So it would have been the North German Confederation including Prussia losing to France, not "Germany". This would leave it open for many different dialects of the "Germanic" language to become quite common in Europe as well as the South Pacific and Eastern Africa, also South America (Parana pre sale and all).
Ok, that doesn't match my understanding. I thought the 2nd Franco-Prussian was after unification, and that's one reason why the DKB feels the various Bavarian states owe him fealty.
I never did go back and finalize my bavarian history, but Maddox's world history seems to show we were linked :
Quote
Unfortunatly, this inconclusive end of the first Franco-German war did spawn a second Germanic-French war.
The second Franco-German war ended in disaster for Prussia - its political elite exiled to its far off colonies in the Pacific, its western territories annexed by France, even its gains from the war with the Habsburgs were lost, the price paid to keep that empire from actively taking sides with France. German nationalism was dead, with the largest state outside Prussia - Bavaria - reduced to little more than French puppet.
German speakers of Bavaria and Austrians speak the same language.
I once suggested that with the destruction of Prussia-Brandenburg the Grossdeutshland idea was discredited. Instead, there was a North German/Hanseatic movement, leading to the respectability and revival of Lower German. Hence the educated classes of the North of Germany which make part of the ESC are using something like Dutch.
Borys
Quote from: Borys on March 22, 2010, 12:32:18 AM
German speakers of Bavaria and Austrians speak the same language.
OTL today, more or less yes. But should they speak their local dialects which would be the norm without nation-wide radio broadcasts (hardly starting before 1930) I wouldn't be so sure.
I'm not from that area, but if someone decides to speak Bavarian instead of "high-German" I'm in serious trouble understanding him.
OOC
I find the difference between Bavarian and Prussian accented Germanic wonderfull. The Bavarians speak it softer, with a tad more "hops". The Prussians have a more disciplined use of language, more clipped as it were.
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on March 22, 2010, 12:11:08 AM
Quote from: Sachmle on March 21, 2010, 06:37:49 PM
For that matter is there German as we know it. By our own Nverse history the French expelled the Preußens after the 2nd Franco-Prussian War, which would have been BEFORE the unification of Germany. So it would have been the North German Confederation including Prussia losing to France, not "Germany". This would leave it open for many different dialects of the "Germanic" language to become quite common in Europe as well as the South Pacific and Eastern Africa, also South America (Parana pre sale and all).
Ok, that doesn't match my understanding. I thought the 2nd Franco-Prussian was after unification, and that's one reason why the DKB feels the various Bavarian states owe him fealty.
I know, confusing ain't it. According to OTL history Germany wasn't unified until AFTER a successful 2nd Franco-Preußen war. Here, that war was lost. Also as to why DKB, which really should just be Neu Prussia, is 'upset' with Bavaria is because the Southern German Confederation didn't help in the war which is 'why' they lost. See, it's Bavaria's fault the French won. ;)
Original time line, I'm only aware of the 1870-1871 Franco Prussian war. After which "Mad" King Lugwig II of Bavaria, ostensibly after receiving monies from the Prussians for his castle-building projects, endorsed in the Kaiserbrief making Wilhelm the Kaiser and the German Empire came to be.
The 2nd Franco-Prussian appears to have been around 1878, based on the ESC timeline which refers in 1879 to the Kaiser just having been sent packing.
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=117.0 (http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=117.0)
But if Bavaria was leader of the Southern German confederation and didn't help the Prussians, why was it reduced to a French Puppet?
I started to try to figure this out once, but seem to have dropped the ball and not finished... but this is the thread I started way back : http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=3316.0 (http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=3316.0)
Ok, digging up Nverse II memories/
First of all, Bavaria was landlocked in the Nverse II, so of less importance. 1905 and the switch to N3 gave us the idea to get another state worth playing. By getting a piece from France, Italia and Habsburg, Bavaria became plausible.
The 2 Prussian wars weren't worked out, and I'll have to make it work now.
Proposal.
QuoteThe first Prussian/Franco war, as in the history was a nearly defeat for France, but by giving up colonial efforts in the Far East, money, material and troops could be send to France to turn the tide.
This set the possible German unification back. And from that moment France started to spend money, normaly ment for oriental expansion, on "Home defence", and pure bribery.
Bavaria, officaly an ally of Prussia, was already in French pay when the second Prussian war kicked off.
Unfortunatly, the King and the kings family was not aware of the duplicity of their political underlings. The relavation of this during the start of the second Prussian war could have been the final crack that destroyed King Lugwig the Second already besieged sanity.
His disinterest in affairs of state strengthened by this and Lugwig II left all matters in the hands of the bribed politicians and military. And those did the bidding of their paymaster, France. Thereby betraying the Prussians, and making the second Prussian/Franco war lost a disaster for the uniting German Kingdoms.
Also could be related to a possible depopulation of the Germanic States due to colonization in the Pacific. There had to be a sizable Prussian and others population in what is now the DKB for the Kaiser t have a stable place to go with even more population in the aftermath of two failed wars with France...a France that didn't have a large and powerful British Empire to keep it in check.
The big move to the Pacific was only after the defeat in the second Prussia/Franco war and the subsequent rise of the East Sea Confederacy.
That republican move did push out Kaiser Wilhelm from Prussia. And with him, a lot of loyal subjects. The ACM ,payed by the French, accepted the Royal Prussian money and did their part of the moving.
Quote from: Ithekro on March 22, 2010, 09:33:20 AM
Also could be related to a possible depopulation of the Germanic States due to colonization in the Pacific. There had to be a sizable Prussian and others population in what is now the DKB for the Kaiser t have a stable place to go with even more population in the aftermath of two failed wars with France...a France that didn't have a large and powerful British Empire to keep it in check.
Quote from: maddox on March 22, 2010, 10:05:15 AM
The big move to the Pacific was only after the defeat in the second Prussia/Franco war and the subsequent rise of the East Sea Confederacy.
That republican move did push out Kaiser Wilhelm from Prussia. And with him, a lot of loyal subjects. The ACM ,payed by the French, accepted the Royal Prussian money and did their part of the moving.
I've always presumed that the majority of the population in Neu Brandenburg was 'native' and that they were repressed (Just like Valles wants ;)) by the industrially powerful/advanced Prussian aristocracy and their pet troops who defected with them after the fall of Berlin. Still can't quite figure out how they built up so much so fast (1887-1907= 20yrs) to have
QuoteLocation Population BP IC
Fatherland 38 7.7 38
by then. Some things just won't make sense here.
I had, actually, been assuming something more along the lines of a wholesale replacement of the Maori population, who in turn took ship to Mayan, which given polynesian migratory patterns and population bases elsewhere, would have been relatively empty and needed an explanation for filling properly.
But I'm quite willing to go with outright population growth for that purpose, honestly.
Amusingly, this ends up totally reversing my interpretations of the patterns of the Swiss and German states. I can't say I don't like it that way. ^_^
Earliest German influence in the Pacific (historically) was in the mid-1850s with trade companies leading to colonial efforts in the early 1880s.
However with the removal of the British and inclusion of Swiss/Norman interests from an earlier time, one might suppose that the Prussians and other Germanic States might have been interested earlier or to a different extent. We also have no way of knowing what qualifies as a native population and what is just an influx of people from another land at a much earlier date. We have the extremely random existance of human recorded history going back much farther in Navalism due to the active use of Tolkien based mythology. Rohan is around 8,700 years old and has a recorded history via Gondor of an additional 6,541 years (roughly, the line of kings can probably only be trace back 6,279 years to Bëor, eldest of the Fathers of Man). Thus in Navalism, human history can be tracked, at least in some parts of the world, back 15,000 years. (Yes, I had to look it up)
And just think; if I were setting up Maoria again, I'd build it as a freakin' Dinotopia expy.
Fifteen thousand years isn't that bad at all, really. ^_^
Rohan (for our purposes) came from the debate on having an alternate history world or a fantasy world. The vote leaned more to semi-fantasy (Earth with changes, but the laws of physics and general concepts as we know them still exist...no vampire nations, aliens, werewolves, or elves (aside from in mythology) were to be used in "present day" Earth)., so I threw down Rohan as a "as far as I'm willing to push this idea within the bounds of reason" country. Rohan was the least mythical of the nations of Middle Earth and thus the most human to work from. Also intentionally has been given Native American traits as time has gone on so that it can fit in more with some established history.
One thing about your Dinotopia idea though...the map of that place might just fit Maoria...its not all that different from what we have now...though I can't say on its scale right now. At least in terms of geography. Weather conditions and other factors would be based more on planetary norms I would think.
I think that if you have a nation where everybody is like Elizabeth Báthory (or worse), you could call it a 'vampire' nation (though I would call it Habsburg). :D
As for the others, it is not that difficult to apply them while the person(s)/being(s) in question are still 100% human or existing animal.
True.
On the subject at hand, all humans grow old a die at some point (rather than everyone getting assasinated or otherwise killed), so eventually the royal world leaders will be replaced with heirs and presidents will be replaced in elections. Dictators will died and be replaced either with their chosen sucessor or by a rival. It is just how things work.
QuoteOne thing about your Dinotopia idea though...the map of that place might just fit Maoria...its not all that different from what we have now...though I can't say on its scale right now. At least in terms of geography. Weather conditions and other factors would be based more on planetary norms I would think.
I'm pretty sure Dinotopia will fit inside Maoria's 'footprint'; IIRC it's only a couple hundred miles across. The current outline of Maoria would then be the shape of the various barrier islands and reefs surrounding the 'main island', where the Polynesians who came on their own would have been allowed to settle, including the exiled Maori. Even the preservation of the dinosaur angle would be, IMHO, possible - probably not in the wide profusion of species seen in the books, but something like a dozen or so species recognizably descended from the most famous groups - a civilization that's deliberately limited itself to that one island so that natural evolution and ecological processes can happen undisturbed save for the occaisional sampling mission.
But unless y'all're going to hand me a wide-spectrum retcon license, it's entirely an academic point.
Quote from: Desertfox on March 21, 2010, 09:50:42 PM
Quote1. The King of New Zion abdicates and his line permanently renounces the throne of New Zion. Members of the Council of Elders appointed prior to 1 January 1914 shall resign, and not seek or accept re-appointment to the Council or other senior government bodies.
His line renounces the throne, that is his descendants, not his parents.
QuoteThey've also not done any of the highlighted items in the rest of the treaty to my knowledge either.
As I told, ctw before, all those items would have been done. I left New Zion about that time so I didn't actually go ahead and do it formally, but it would have been done, no reason not to do so.
And I must point out that my, and the Jewish people, trace their family maternally, and that it refers to her directly.
Quote from: maddox on March 22, 2010, 08:58:46 AM
Ok, digging up Nverse II memories/
First of all, Bavaria was landlocked in the Nverse II, so of less importance. 1905 and the switch to N3 gave us the idea to get another state worth playing. By getting a piece from France, Italia and Habsburg, Bavaria became plausible.
The 2 Prussian wars weren't worked out, and I'll have to make it work now.
Proposal.
QuoteThe first Prussian/Franco war, as in the history was a nearly defeat for France, but by giving up colonial efforts in the Far East, money, material and troops could be send to France to turn the tide.
This set the possible German unification back. And from that moment France started to spend money, normaly ment for oriental expansion, on "Home defence", and pure bribery.
Bavaria, officaly an ally of Prussia, was already in French pay when the second Prussian war kicked off.
Unfortunatly, the King and the kings family was not aware of the duplicity of their political underlings. The relavation of this during the start of the second Prussian war could have been the final crack that destroyed King Lugwig the Second already besieged sanity.
His disinterest in affairs of state strengthened by this and Lugwig II left all matters in the hands of the bribed politicians and military. And those did the bidding of their paymaster, France. Thereby betraying the Prussians, and making the second Prussian/Franco war lost a disaster for the uniting German Kingdoms.
Well historically, Maximillian II, 1811-1864, tried to isolate Prussia, and allied with Austria to do so. Indeed, between siding with Napolean to taking Austria's side in 1866, Bavaria was fairly anti-Prussia. He backed the reform of the German confederation, and if one deducts the North German confederation...Greater Bavaria is the successor.
OTL Maximillian's son Ludwig II "The mad" was not interested in running things. His brother Otto was "mad" and locked up, but Ludwig II was likely just odd and so framed and murdered by said political underlings. Prince Luitpold demanded a doctor's verdict, likely for appearances. Fitting into Navalism, it could be Lugwig II was to ally with the Prussians (since they would fund his castles), and he was declared insane and deposed by the more traditional pro-French/anti Prussian faction. Prince Luitpold would be regent and back France.
If Luitpold was directly involved in that, it would explain the Chill in DKB-Bavarian relations until his passing.
This doesn't explain why, if a willing ally, or merely staying out of the war, Bavaria was reduced to a French puppet, or how it wound up with the Princely County of Hohenzollern and Province of Schliesen.
Quote
Also could be related to a possible depopulation of the Germanic States due to colonization in the Pacific. There had to be a sizable Prussian and others population in what is now the DKB for the Kaiser t have a stable place to go with even more population in the aftermath of two failed wars with France..
Some time ago I believe it was noted that the populations for Hesse (and Thuringia ?) were absent... or some such. I was figuring lots of fighting there in the 2nd Franco-Prussia and mass exodus from ruined lands and political upheaval. I've backfilled Hesse for my part.
Quote
Netherlands: Queen Wilhelmina (?)
That should probably be the Prime minister. The Queen's role is more limited and Korpen didn't feature his Royalty. Original Time Line : While a strong place in Dutch govt as adviser and final signer of laws, her influence was behind the scenes, and depended on how pliable her ministers were. In this time frame she was very popular at home and well thought of abroad. She was also widely believed to be extremely wealthy.
QuoteAnd I must point out that my, and the Jewish people, trace their family maternally, and that it refers to her directly.
Really? All the genealogies in the bible are paternally. Kings traced their line to King David, not Bathsheba. Priesthood was from father to son, and widows married near relatives of their husbands to keep their name.
But that doesn't really matter. The treaty writers said HIS line, so that's their problem.
I am not Jewish, though I've dated my fair share of Jewish girls...
I think we're confusing two things here:
1. The idea that to be a Jew, one's mother must be a Jew and
2. Inheritance in general.
The two are not mutually exclusive.
At any rate, I have a sense that the Italians have little patience for such hair splitting. I also suspect that those nations that went out of their way via diplomatic means to prevent New Zion from being dismembered by the Italians would not be amused either.
You are only Jewish if your mother is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrilineality_in_Judaism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrilineality_in_Judaism)
I usually don't trust wiki, but since I've read through this, everything I've noticed is true...
Jewish girls....all I've dated...
Advice from an elder: date at least one crazy Irish Catholic girl. Redhead preferred. Daddy issues absolutely necessary. Just one will be enough, and this is likely to head off plenty of other issues later.
Trust me. :)
Err....
Quote from: Guinness on March 22, 2010, 08:45:30 PM
Advice from an elder: date at least one crazy Irish Catholic girl. Redhead preferred. Daddy issues absolutely necessary. Just one will be enough, and this is likely to head off plenty of other issues later.
Trust me. :)
Cuz there are other kinds of Irish Catholic girls? ;)
Sure, the chaste ones. ;D
Quote from: Guinness on March 22, 2010, 09:12:40 PM
Sure, the chaste ones. ;D
... there are chaste Catholic school girls? Ok maybee there are, but all the ones I dated could trip you and get to the floor intime to catch you.
The Jewish lineage ideal changed after they were kicked out...it is much easier to know who your mother than it is our father...especially if the native population you live in is attempting to "breed you out of existance" as a nation. You can't breed out a nation if they follow the mother's line.
Quote
At any rate, I have a sense that the Italians have little patience for such hair splitting. I also suspect that those nations that went out of their way via diplomatic means to prevent New Zion from being dismembered by the Italians would not be amused either.
Hairs go into a pot potatoes, carrots, and a little bit of Horseradish and possible some Turnips and Radish's.
My letter to the ESC, GC, CSA, Japan, and France pretty much explained the Empires stance we will watch the crazy zionists because they are crazy and dangerous and located on our borders and hope time takes care of the problem because wars are expensive and time consuming.
Ah ok, so matrilineality is a relatively modern thing, cause pre-70AD it was all paternally.
Still we are arguing a moot point, because even in that case, the Empress of Ethiopia and mother of the deposed king is not Jewish but Ethiopian Christian (same as OTL).
I'm a bad llama for not pointing this out before, but I managed to not actually check what the list said about the Mughals until just now.
In ~ 1912, Akbar Shah the Third died after a brief but acute illness and was succeeded by his first born son, Furrukhsiyar the Second, aged 21 at the time. Furrukhsiyar is not nearly as popular as his father.
Quote from: Guinness on March 23, 2010, 06:49:32 PM
I'm a bad llama for not pointing this out before, but I managed to not actually check what the list said about the Mughals until just now.
In ~ 1912, Akbar Shah the Third died after a brief but acute illness and was succeeded by his first born son, Furrukhsiyar the Second, aged 21 at the time. Furrukhsiyar is not nearly as popular as his father.
Fixed. Also note all other input has been edited into the list, with the exception of New Zion. I'd be happy to put her highness in, if that is infact the Mod ruling on who is in charge since Fox himself said he left NZ an NPC before that would have happened.
The Habsburg succession is a mess. I noticed that I did not tie up some lose ends, but I decided not to correct my sloppiness, as it makes things more interesting:
- Maximilian II = OTL Franz Joseph;
- Franz Ferdinand morgamatically marries Chotek = FF is heir, his sons are not Habsburgs (dynastically) anymore;
- Stefan deposes Maximillian, deposes FF, and voids the morgamatic part of FF's marriage; and deposes all other uncles (father-brother) too;
- Stefan and Yelena have one living daughter and a string of misscarriages/stillborn children ...
- nobody is raising this publically, but ATM the monarchy has no recognised heir - is it FF's son Maximillian? Is it the Navalism equivalent of Karl? Somebody else?
Just a random thought...since Moria has a certain "Devil Queen"...who has the certain Testarossa she is generally paired with? The name itself, if used gives me a secondary idea (distant relative) to command a submarine.
Quote from: Borys on March 24, 2010, 02:46:22 AM
The Habsburg succession is a mess. I noticed that I did not tie up some lose ends, but I decided not to correct my sloppiness, as it makes things more interesting:
- Maximilian II = OTL Franz Joseph;
- Franz Ferdinand morgamatically marries Chotek = FF is heir, his sons are not Habsburgs (dynastically) anymore;
- Stefan deposes Maximillian, deposes FF, and voids the morgamatic part of FF's marriage; and deposes all other uncles (father-brother) too;
- Stefan and Yelena have one living daughter and a string of misscarriages/stillborn children ...
- nobody is raising this publically, but ATM the monarchy has no recognised heir - is it FF's son Maximillian? Is it the Navalism equivalent of Karl? Somebody else?
Depending on what you have done the Iberian's fall in here some place.
Jaime's grand-mother was Archduchess Maria Beatrix of Austria-Este, Modena-Line
Archduchess Maria Beatrix of Austria-Este was the 4th child of Francis IV, Duke of Modena
-1st Child Maria Theresa died without issue
-2nd Francis V, Duke of Modena, had only one child that died as an infant
-3rd Ferdinand Karl Viktor, had only one child Maria Theresia of Austria-Este, she married Ludwig III of Bavaria
Jaime married the 6th child of Maria Theresia and Ludwig, Princess Mathilde. As we can see Mathilde was Jaime's1st cousin. Before Queen Mathilde passed away she and Jaime had one child, Fernando de Bourbon y Wittelsbach, Prince of Asturias. The current heir to the throne.
Normally I would say that Jaime and Fernando wouldn't be much of a factor but depending on how wide of a sweep Stefan made they might be.
For that matter why not use Empress Maria Theresa as a precedent and have Stefan's daughter take the throne? I know that Maria Theresa was co-ruler with her husband Francis I and later her son Joseph II of Austria and never Empress of the Holy Roman Empire in her own right but its something.
Well,
As Miketr noted, the Bavarians do pop up in the lineage there. Though I don't know how Austrians traced succession.
Rupprecht, Crown Prince of Bavaria is first born of Maria Theresa of Austria-Este.
Maria Theresa is daughter and only child of Archduke Ferdinand Karl Viktor of Austria-Este
Archduke Ferdinand was the 3rd born and 2nd Son of Francis IV, Duke of Modena and Princess Maria Beatrice of Savoy.
Would not the line traced through the 3rd born, 2nd son pre-empt a line traced through the 4th born?
Then there is Albrecht of Wurttemberg, first son of Archduke Albrecht, Duke of Teschen
Archduke Albrecht was first son of Archduke Charles.
Archduke Charles was the younger brother of Francis II
Francis II was the father of Fedinand I, who abdicated in favor of OTL Franz Joseph. ...
...and this is why there were the wars of the Austrian succession...
I didn't claim the Iberian was the better claim than the Bavarian after all part of the Iberian claim is traced THROUGH the Bavarian's! Yah Kirk is right if this was the 17th or 18th century this would be a prime setup for a 2nd war of Austrian Succession.
Did I here the House of Savoy Mentioned.... Damn Inbreeding.... ;D
Ahoj!
The Habsburgs and Wittlesbachs are disgustingly inbred ...
I must find a free moment and look at my old posts. Stefan did not murder any uncles (father-brother) - he packed off one to die of "bordello exhaustion" in Paris, and another to an out of the way castle in Transylvania.
Franz Ferdinand was packed off to Peking, and Maximilian to a monastery.
Borys
*Evil Laugh*
Just pointing out the House of Savoy became King Of Sardina and then Kings of Italy by well fighting for both sides durring these little wars. Now to get all of Savoy back. ;) Damn its in France never mind.... :'(
This is what I had developed for the UNK.
Sort of a dual monarchy. Earl 822 (the original player) had the UKA King Harold as the lead. I felt that the greater size and power of Britain called for a British king and I fell back on the OTL historical record(with a crown prince Arthur added- for future purposes(ie " The Once and Future King!). I was developing them both in case we needed a split for a new player.
United Norman Kingdom:
Overall Head: His Majesty King George V
Great Britain
King: His Majesty King George V (George Frederick Ernest Albert Windsor ) OTL died 1910
Crown Prince: Prince Arthur George Windsor
United Kingdom of America
King: His Majesty King Harold VII
Crown Prince: unknown (previous had died in 1899) I never developed this further