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Main Archive => Navalism 3 Armed Forces => Armed Forces => New Ship Designs => Topic started by: hooper82 on November 17, 2009, 02:32:48 AM

Title: UNK Designs
Post by: hooper82 on November 17, 2009, 02:32:48 AM
With some very dodgy advice *looks at Tanthalas and Sachmle =)*, I've decided to lay down run of 1 (at this stage anyway) BC, the HMS Hood, Pride of the UNK Fleet.

Thoughts?

Quote
Hood, UNK Battlecruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1916) - REVISION 1.4

Displacement:
   38,983 t light; 40,960 t standard; 45,555 t normal; 49,231 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   871.59 ft / 856.00 ft x 107.00 ft x 32.00 ft (normal load)
   265.66 m / 260.91 m x 32.61 m  x 9.75 m

Armament:
      8 - 16.00" / 406 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2,200.00lbs / 997.90kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 82.00lbs / 37.19kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 18,932 lbs / 8,587 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   556.00 ft / 169.47 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   556.00 ft / 169.47 m   32.00 ft / 9.75 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 134,000 shp / 99,964 Kw = 29.02 kts
   Range 18,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8,271 tons

Complement:
   1,558 - 2,026

Cost:
   £7.137 million / $28.549 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,217 tons, 4.9 %
   Armour: 12,738 tons, 28.0 %
      - Belts: 5,013 tons, 11.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 987 tons, 2.2 %
      - Armament: 2,880 tons, 6.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,528 tons, 7.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 330 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 4,993 tons, 11.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,236 tons, 40.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,572 tons, 14.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 800 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     60,209 lbs / 27,310 Kg = 29.4 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 8.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 6.6 ft / 2.0 m
   Roll period: 17.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.73
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.544
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 29.26 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.00 ft / -1.83 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27.00 ft / 8.23 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (70 %):      24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.84 ft / 6.66 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 172.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 63,563 Square feet or 5,905 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 207 lbs/sq ft or 1,011 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.04
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

500t 2xFire Control
50t 2xLong Range Wireless
50t 2xRadar
100t Flag Bridge
100t Building Reserve

Main belt at a 8 Degree Slope

Range (8,300 tons Fuel Oil)
18,000nm @ 12 kts
7,400nm @ 18 kts
2,400nm @ 28 kts

Thanks to Tanthalas, Sachmle & Maddox for design assistance.
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: mentat on November 17, 2009, 02:49:38 AM

  Any Ship called Hood - gets my vote   ;D

But - dare I say it - would prefer a bit more armour round the Magazines - esp. vs. 14" gunned opposition upwards

If size + cost are at a max. - maybe scope to shave off a bit freeboard/seaboat qlty ( I think is least critical parameter for Big Ship) or range ?

Whatever you decide to do - can we have a picture - PLEASE  ;D  :P

Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: Jefgte on November 17, 2009, 04:26:17 AM
Yes, a picture please for the UNK Hood ...


Jef  ;)
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: hooper82 on November 17, 2009, 05:17:24 AM
Ok ok, I'm sensing a theme here...Lemy get up to speed on my reports, and I'll get a picky done.
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: hooper82 on November 17, 2009, 06:53:35 AM
The Royal Navy currently has no Battlecruisers, and this is seen as a major deficiency.  Its current plans are to lay down the Hood, along with several smaller, lighter BC's.  The RN is planning to lay down no less than 4 (and up to 8 ) of these between 1917 and 1919.

Quote
Lion, UNK Battlecruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1916) - REVISION 1.2

Displacement:
   24,629 t light; 25,814 t standard; 28,834 t normal; 31,251 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   719.01 ft / 704.00 ft x 88.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   219.15 m / 214.58 m x 26.82 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      6 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,649.00lbs / 747.97kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      16 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (8x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 10,755 lbs / 4,878 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   454.00 ft / 138.38 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   250.00 ft / 76.20 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   454.00 ft / 138.38 m   28.00 ft / 8.53 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 96,008 shp / 71,622 Kw = 28.20 kts
   Range 16,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,437 tons

Complement:
   1,106 - 1,438

Cost:
   £4.214 million / $16.855 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,137 tons, 3.9 %
   Armour: 8,798 tons, 30.5 %
      - Belts: 4,106 tons, 14.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 706 tons, 2.4 %
      - Armament: 1,359 tons, 4.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,384 tons, 8.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 243 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 3,577 tons, 12.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,718 tons, 37.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,205 tons, 14.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     39,843 lbs / 18,072 Kg = 29.0 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 5.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.70
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.543
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.53 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Mid (70 %):      23.00 ft / 7.01 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.54 ft / 6.26 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 42,953 Square feet or 3,990 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 170 lbs/sq ft or 829 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.35
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250t Fire Control
25t Long Range Wireless
25t Radar
100t Building Reserve

Main belt at a 8 Degree Slope

Range (5,478 tons Fuel Oil)
16,000nm @ 12 kts
6,400nm @ 18 kts
2,000nm @ 28kts

14"/52, Mark 2 (1910), 1,649lb Shell, ROF 2
4.72"/50, Mark 6 (1916), 57lb Shell, ROF 8-10
1.57"/50, Mark 1 (1917), 2lb Shell, QF, AA, ROF 100
1"/50, Mark 1 (1916), 0.5lb Shell, QF, AA, ROF 300

Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: mentat on November 17, 2009, 07:22:01 AM

interesting - what are the smaller BCs for - type of role and likely opposition

i'm thinking the opposition is getting bigger and just as fast - Mondedor etc

   the Lion is reasonably priced - but it lacks ROAR  ;) - in fact - more like a domestic pussy :( .  ....


an alternative would be 3 Hoods with 14" armour    mmmm yummy .....
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: Borys on November 17, 2009, 08:40:35 AM
Ahoj!
Mentat rises a good point - could a 4x2x15" HMS Hood carrry a 13" (or better) belt?
Then I'd call it a day and build four.

Borys
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: Walter on November 17, 2009, 08:44:33 AM
Quotecould a 4x2x15" HMS Hood carrry a 13" (or better) belt?
Considering that I have a 27 knot design that is like HMS Hood, but has thicker armor and is some 6000 tons lighter than Hooper's Hood, I would say that that is certainly possible.
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: hooper82 on November 17, 2009, 02:38:50 PM
Revised it a little, just some tweaks (Thanks Tan!).  I can get better armor, but she's a battlecruiser, not a battleship.  I Want to get it to 30 knots, but its just not possible with 16" guns.  Going to try a 15" design...
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: Walter on November 17, 2009, 02:58:04 PM
If you want 30 knots, you really should go for 15"... or a bigger boat. :)
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: Tanthalas on November 17, 2009, 03:05:17 PM
Quote from: Walter on November 17, 2009, 02:58:04 PM
If you want 30 knots, you really should go for 15"... or a bigger boat. :)

Cant do it with 15" guns either its the weight necessary on the ship, the SHP restrictions bite you off at about 29.5 even for asfolath without making massive cuts to say main gun numbers
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: mentat on November 17, 2009, 07:53:51 PM

i'm guessing 41k tons (full Hood size ;D) 8 x 15" and 30 knots and still decent armour (armour could be +1" for Mags) should be possible .... hope so ... this is a critical project  ;)
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: Tanthalas on November 17, 2009, 08:09:38 PM
Quote from: mentat on November 17, 2009, 07:53:51 PM

i'm guessing 41k tons (full Hood size ;D) 8 x 15" and 30 knots and still decent armour (armour could be +1" for Mags) should be possible .... hope so ... this is a critical project  ;)

well it kind of depends on who is building said BB... the reality like it or not is you cant build the OTL Hood on 35K SHP.  so your looking at like 1920 before she can be layed down.

The final version Hooper posted is about the closest you can get (admitedly the 16" is a deviation but its still close)
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: hooper82 on November 17, 2009, 08:29:23 PM
Quote from: mentat on November 17, 2009, 07:53:51 PM

i'm guessing 41k tons (full Hood size ;D) 8 x 15" and 30 knots and still decent armour (armour could be +1" for Mags) should be possible .... hope so ... this is a critical project  ;)

I tried, I really did...but like Tan said, you just can't get 30knots out of 35k SHP per shaft.  Need more power captain!!!  It should be possible 1920...expect an engine upgrade =)  To get those 30 knots (in 1917 with SS2), it has to be smaller, and throw any idea of "balanced design" out the window.
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: hooper82 on November 17, 2009, 11:53:35 PM
My last 1kton Destroyers.  Laid down in 1916/HY2, I couldn't find a design for them, so -

Quote
N Class, UNK Destroyer laid down 1916 - REVISION 1.21

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,045 t standard; 1,295 t normal; 1,494 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   380.66 ft / 372.00 ft x 31.00 ft x 10.00 ft (normal load)
   116.03 m / 113.39 m x 9.45 m  x 3.05 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 57.00lbs / 25.85kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
     on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
      2 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (1x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
     on centreline forward, all raised guns - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 233 lbs / 106 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 20,584 shp / 15,356 Kw = 30.01 kts
   Range 8,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 449 tons

Complement:
   107 - 140

Cost:
   £0.230 million / $0.921 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 27 tons, 2.1 %
   Armour: 10 tons, 0.8 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 10 tons, 0.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 594 tons, 45.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 299 tons, 23.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 295 tons, 22.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 70 tons, 5.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     346 lbs / 157 Kg = 6.6 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.44
   Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 10.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.21
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.393
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.29 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (40 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m (9.00 ft / 2.74 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   10.44 ft / 3.18 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 170.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 80.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 7,072 Square feet or 657 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 71 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 127 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.59
      - Overall: 0.50
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

15t ASW - 45 Depth Charges, 2 Rails (1910 Tech)
25t Long Range Wireless
24t 6+6 Torpedoes (1913 Tech)
6t Builders Reserve

Range (449t Fuel Oil)
8,500nm @ 12 kts
3,330nm @ 18 kts
1,000nm @ 28 kts

4.72"/50, Mark 6 (1916), 57lb Shell, ROF 8-10
1.57"/50, Mark 1 (1917), 2lb Shell, QF, AA, ROF 100
1"/50, Mark 1 (1916), 0.5lb Shell, QF, AA, ROF 300
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: mentat on November 18, 2009, 06:17:19 AM

Never mind - and well done for trying :) - SS really penalises on Speed, 29.5 knots was Hood's final speed as an Old Lady - and I think the protection is more important anyway

Nice Destroyer btw - very handy - my only query is re Freeboard and Seaboat Qlty - would a bit higher freeboard be useful for North Atlantic - they seem to have the range to be Ocean going

also Q'deck is 3' lower than main deck - mmm  - seems bit odd

Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: hooper82 on November 18, 2009, 06:37:59 AM
Yeah, think of it as a flushed deck DD with a flared bow to try and deal with that North Atlantic Weather.
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: maddox on November 18, 2009, 07:34:17 AM
3' step on the quarterdeck. I can see reasons for that.  For one, it creates room to work under the barrel of the aft gun.
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: mentat on November 18, 2009, 09:38:55 PM

Getting back to Hood

I have recent design I dug up for 'Fully Armoured BC" (like an Early Vanguard)or perhaps what Hood should have been )  - I guess a Fast BB in reality - 40 k tons 15" Belt but just 28 knots - interesting to compare

And I can't help wondering - with current limit of 140k shp - since 30 knots requires too much compromise on protection - the fully armoured ship is the better buy

   - what does everyone think  ;D

40k t, BAE Large BC laid down 1918

Displacement:
   39,713 t light; 41,709 t standard; 44,028 t normal; 45,884 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   869.99 ft / 856.00 ft x 108.00 ft x 31.75 ft (normal load)
   265.17 m / 260.91 m x 32.92 m  x 9.68 m

Armament:
      8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (3 mounts), 1,950.00lbs / 884.51kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      20 - 4.33" / 110 mm guns (10x2 guns), 40.00lbs / 18.14kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      6 - 3.15" / 80.0 mm guns in single mounts, 15.00lbs / 6.80kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      32 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1918 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 16,506 lbs / 7,487 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   15.0" / 381 mm   433.00 ft / 131.98 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   265.00 ft / 80.77 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     158.00 ft / 48.16 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   320.00 ft / 97.54 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     Main Belt covers 78 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.80" / 46 mm   491.00 ft / 149.66 m   31.00 ft / 9.45 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.0" / 381 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   3rd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.50" / 38 mm      2.00" / 51 mm

   - Armour deck: 6.00" / 152 mm, Conning tower: 16.00" / 406 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 113,948 shp / 85,006 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 9,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,174 tons

Complement:
   1,519 - 1,975

Cost:
   £6.960 million / $27.838 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,803 tons, 4.1 %
   Armour: 16,151 tons, 36.7 %
      - Belts: 4,525 tons, 10.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,014 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armament: 3,186 tons, 7.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 6,996 tons, 15.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 430 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 4,111 tons, 9.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 17,299 tons, 39.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,315 tons, 9.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     67,721 lbs / 30,718 Kg = 40.1 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 10.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 6.7 ft / 2.0 m
   Roll period: 17.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.34

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.525
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.93 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 29.26 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.00 ft / 9.14 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Mid (50 %):      25.00 ft / 7.62 m (18.00 ft / 5.49 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Stern:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   22.05 ft / 6.72 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 167.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 63,030 Square feet or 5,856 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 198 lbs/sq ft or 968 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.08
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

I really like this one - good competitor to Mondedor ...

Deck armour and Freeboard/Seaboat Qlty are prob. excessive - could trade off for a bit more speed - but I guess 29 knots is still barrier with less than 140k shp


Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: Borys on November 18, 2009, 11:09:32 PM
Ahoj!
The 28kn version looks better to me than the faster versions. But the AD seems excessive or too much hindsightful. Also, I consider MB over 14" to be a waste.
I personally have a policy of cutting back "fire platform slightly" down to 70%, with the balance going into "stability".
Borys
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: maddox on November 18, 2009, 11:40:27 PM
She's a good companion to Montmedie and Mont Bruyere.  That half kts top speed won't make a difference.

But, change the belt to something thinner, and use the weight  to increase the hight of the main belt and to make the TB a tad heavier. 2" ain't to little.

The light secundaries could be seen as a flaw in an era of increasing DD size.

On cruise speed and range.  France is building the newer ships to 16 kts cruise speed, and the ranges vary between 6000 and 9000 nm.
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: mentat on November 19, 2009, 12:08:12 AM

Yes - agree with those points

maybe - Belt 15 (Mags) 14 (Mach'y) Deck 5 (Mags) 4 Mach'y

increase TB and Sec's - 20 x 4.7" or 16 x 5.1" - should do it

I'd forgotten I had included Upper and End Belts - so it is very well protected, but maybe otherwise Stab'y would be bit higher

Range - this is general design study - I think is up to Individual needs - just need to tweak other bits if anybody needs more
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: hooper82 on November 19, 2009, 02:49:07 AM
Quote from: Borys on November 18, 2009, 11:09:32 PM
Ahoj!
The 28kn version looks better to me than the faster versions. But the AD seems excessive or too much hindsightful. Also, I consider MB over 14" to be a waste.
I personally have a policy of cutting back "fire platform slightly" down to 70%, with the balance going into "stability".
Borys


AD??  Air Defense?  Armored Deck?
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: hooper82 on November 19, 2009, 03:02:28 AM
I like your design Mentat, but I'd argue that the Hood isn't meant to make sense.  She's meant to be the pride of the fleet, fast, overpriced...with some glaring flaws.
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: mentat on November 19, 2009, 05:07:27 AM

I think she made sense in real world at the time - as well as being so damned good looking (from most angles - perhaps not side profile)

- question is - what makes sense in nverse right now 1918 - nverse seems to have more armour + less speed - prob. courtesy of SS program

I will try to tweak the design a bit - get bit more speed - I like speed too  ;D
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: Borys on November 19, 2009, 05:55:18 AM
Ahoj!
Sorry Hooper - yes, indeed, AD stands for Armoured Deck. MB = Main Belt, MG - Main Guns ...
Borys
Title: Re: UNK Designs Bump for I got it to work
Post by: Tanthalas on March 08, 2010, 02:41:00 PM
so I was playing aorund with HMS Hood today, and I actualy got her to work mostly.  so I thought this would be the best place to post it, I definetly wouldnt object to opinions (as always) oh and im contemplating a way to trim a little more weight (which would go right into the Misc. weight).  what is everyones opinion of a KGV style lightly armored Super Structure?

HMS Hood, United Norman Kingdom Battle Cruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   35,200 t light; 36,932 t standard; 40,043 t normal; 42,532 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   860.00 ft / 850.00 ft x 95.00 ft x 31.00 ft (normal load)
   262.13 m / 259.08 m x 28.96 m  x 9.45 m

Armament:
     8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,920.00lbs / 870.90kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring
     16 - 4.70" / 119 mm guns (8x2 guns), 57.00lbs / 25.85kg shells, 1917 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     4 - 4.70" / 119 mm guns (2x2 guns), 57.00lbs / 25.85kg shells, 1917 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 16,504 lbs / 7,486 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   546.00 ft / 166.42 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   304.00 ft / 92.66 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   544.00 ft / 165.81 m   29.00 ft / 8.84 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.0" / 381 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 140,000 shp / 104,440 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 8,030nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,601 tons

Complement:
   1,414 - 1,839

Cost:
   £6.344 million / $25.376 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,818 tons, 4.5 %
   Armour: 12,100 tons, 30.2 %
      - Belts: 4,968 tons, 12.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 876 tons, 2.2 %
      - Armament: 2,797 tons, 7.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,157 tons, 7.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 303 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 5,216 tons, 13.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,714 tons, 39.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,843 tons, 12.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 352 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     50,576 lbs / 22,941 Kg = 30.0 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 6.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.81
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.18

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.560
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.95 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 29.15 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17.35 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.00 ft / -1.83 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      32.00 ft / 9.75 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (66 %):      24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (16 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.92 ft / 6.68 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 166.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 56,879 Square feet or 5,284 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 191 lbs/sq ft or 933 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.01
      - Longitudinal: 0.99
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

352 tons misc. weight
250 tons FC
 50 tons Flag Facilities
 25 tons Radar
 27 tons comfort items (still not much but I managed to clear up a little more)
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: Sachmle on March 08, 2010, 06:47:33 PM
Nice, but you forgot the 7" upper belt and I think she was laid down with 5" guns, not 4.7".
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: Guinness on March 08, 2010, 07:17:52 PM
Quote from: Sachmle on March 08, 2010, 06:47:33 PM
and I think she was laid down with 5" guns, not 4.7".

Actually, her secondary battery was 5.5".
Title: Re: UNK Designs
Post by: Tanthalas on March 08, 2010, 07:27:31 PM
it was more an atempt to make hood work in the nverse, im not the person playing the UNK at this point so its more like Mentats ship than an actual nverse ship.