I thought I should get a thread that wasnt just Battle Cruisers. so Ill start this off with the one you have all seen by now Asfolath
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/Hoodkiller.gif) (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/Hoodkiller.gif)
Asfaloth, Rohan Fast Battleship laid down 1916
Displacement:
36,200 t light; 37,968 t standard; 43,866 t normal; 48,584 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
808.00 ft / 792.00 ft x 118.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
246.28 m / 241.40 m x 35.97 m x 9.14 m
Armament:
8 - 15.50" / 394 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,861.94lbs / 844.56kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (8x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1916 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
4 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (2x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1916 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1916 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
12 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1916 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 15,823 lbs / 7,177 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 514.00 ft / 156.67 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 278.00 ft / 84.73 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 514.00 ft / 156.67 m 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
4th: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 120,000 shp / 89,520 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 8,525nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 10,616 tons
Complement:
1,515 - 1,970
Cost:
£5.816 million / $23.265 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,978 tons, 4.5 %
Armour: 12,490 tons, 28.5 %
- Belts: 5,071 tons, 11.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 742 tons, 1.7 %
- Armament: 2,718 tons, 6.2 %
- Armour Deck: 3,612 tons, 8.2 %
- Conning Tower: 348 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 4,471 tons, 10.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,761 tons, 38.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,666 tons, 17.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.1 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
61,100 lbs / 27,715 Kg = 32.8 x 15.5 " / 394 mm shells or 10.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 8.0 ft / 2.4 m
Roll period: 17.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.548
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.71 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.14 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 29.75 degrees
Stern overhang: -8.00 ft / -2.44 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 28.00 ft / 8.53 m (19.00 ft / 5.79 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Stern: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Average freeboard: 20.80 ft / 6.34 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.5 %
Waterplane Area: 65,076 Square feet or 6,046 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 198 lbs/sq ft or 967 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.06
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Ah, man - I was hoping you'd stick with the cage masts.
a "modern" Destroyer for fleet operations. While it isnt as sexy as the Fast BB The Mark feals it is just as important to upgrade our small craft.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/DD1601.gif) (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/DD1601.gif)
DD1601, Rohan Destroyer laid down 1916
Displacement:
1,000 t light; 1,044 t standard; 1,246 t normal; 1,407 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
334.00 ft / 330.00 ft x 28.00 ft x 12.00 ft (normal load)
101.80 m / 100.58 m x 8.53 m x 3.66 m
Armament:
5 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns in single mounts, 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1916 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
6 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1916 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward
Weight of broadside 229 lbs / 104 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.50" / 13 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 22,000 shp / 16,412 Kw = 30.21 kts
Range 4,200nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 363 tons
Complement:
104 - 136
Cost:
£0.232 million / $0.927 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 29 tons, 2.3 %
Armour: 12 tons, 0.9 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 12 tons, 0.9 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 590 tons, 47.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 320 tons, 25.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 246 tons, 19.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 4.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
314 lbs / 142 Kg = 6.9 x 4.5 " / 114 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 11.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 88 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.25
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.393
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.79 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.17 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 71
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.05 degrees
Stern overhang: -2.50 ft / -0.76 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Mid (50 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (10 %): 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Stern: 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Average freeboard: 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 174.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 71.9 %
Waterplane Area: 5,667 Square feet or 527 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 65 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 133 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.49
- Overall: 0.56
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
QuoteFreeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Mid (50 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (10 %): 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Stern: 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Average freeboard: 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Nice drawing & good global concept ...
IMO, Forecastle is certainly too short, not drawing at 20%
The bridge & funnels are too near the bow.
;)
it should (note I say should not is) be within 1 or 2% of 20% (unless I was totaly brain dead which at the point I was working the front of the ship is a posibility)
and while I agree compleatly on the stack issue, I couldnt find anyplace I actualy liked the way they fit. What it needs is another stack aft, but there just wasnt anyplace I could put one I actualy liked.
- the DD - forward superstructure is high as well as far forward - not sure it looks very stable - would really sink into trough of big waves
but I like Fast BB a lot - very nice - suitably mean, powerful and fast ;D
While not armed with the new 15.5" Naval gun (storyline reason youll just have to wait) This new generation of Battleship will provide needed balance to the Fleet (it gives me 12 14" armed ships instead of the curent 10)
(Pic being worked on)
Eorl, Rohan Battleship laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
28,982 t light; 30,597 t standard; 31,857 t normal; 32,865 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
644.00 ft / 630.00 ft x 101.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
196.29 m / 192.02 m x 30.78 m x 8.23 m
Armament:
12 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (8x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (2x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1917 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 17,389 lbs / 7,887 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 378.00 ft / 115.21 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: 5.00" / 127 mm 252.00 ft / 76.81 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Upper: 7.00" / 178 mm 378.00 ft / 115.21 m 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 378.00 ft / 115.21 m 25.97 ft / 7.92 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 7.00" / 178 mm 14.0" / 356 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
4th: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 40,043 shp / 29,872 Kw = 21.50 kts
Range 5,750nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,268 tons
Complement:
1,191 - 1,549
Cost:
£5.544 million / $22.175 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,174 tons, 6.8 %
Armour: 12,504 tons, 39.2 %
- Belts: 5,759 tons, 18.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 545 tons, 1.7 %
- Armament: 3,215 tons, 10.1 %
- Armour Deck: 2,703 tons, 8.5 %
- Conning Tower: 281 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,492 tons, 4.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,313 tons, 38.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,875 tons, 9.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.6 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
44,580 lbs / 20,221 Kg = 32.5 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 7.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 6.1 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 17.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.69
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.42
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.649
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.24 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.10 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
Stern overhang: -8.00 ft / -2.44 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 28.00 ft / 8.53 m (19.00 ft / 5.79 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Stern: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Average freeboard: 20.80 ft / 6.34 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148.0 %
Waterplane Area: 48,700 Square feet or 4,524 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 190 lbs/sq ft or 928 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.40
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
the Fast BB looks great :) - why not build more of those - won't they be better investment in the long run?
Realising the need for Raiders as well as Escorts for the new Fast Battleships, Rohan has revived the Combat Cruiser Class. Here the new class to be named for the previous generation of Combat Cruisers (which I have mostly scraped)
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/EldacarSisters.gif) (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/EldacarSisters.gif)
Eldacar, Rohan Combat Cruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
16,500 t light; 17,450 t standard; 21,204 t normal; 24,207 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
682.50 ft / 671.00 ft x 77.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
208.03 m / 204.52 m x 23.47 m x 8.23 m
Armament:
6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x3 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (8x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (2x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1917 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 6,109 lbs / 2,771 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 403.00 ft / 122.83 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
4th: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
- Armour deck: 1.60" / 41 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 101,996 shp / 76,089 Kw = 30.02 kts
Range 8,525nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6,757 tons
Complement:
878 - 1,142
Cost:
£3.184 million / $12.734 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 764 tons, 3.6 %
Armour: 3,544 tons, 16.7 %
- Belts: 1,656 tons, 7.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 739 tons, 3.5 %
- Armour Deck: 1,050 tons, 4.9 %
- Conning Tower: 99 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 3,800 tons, 17.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,992 tons, 37.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,704 tons, 22.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.9 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
26,708 lbs / 12,114 Kg = 30.9 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 15.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.76
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.532
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.71 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.90 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
Stern overhang: -8.00 ft / -2.44 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Mid (50 %): 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m (23.00 ft / 7.01 m before break)
- Stern: 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 21.20 ft / 6.46 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 176.9 %
Waterplane Area: 35,456 Square feet or 3,294 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 147 lbs/sq ft or 715 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.46
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Not to get in your way, or anything, but I think that it would work better with triple 9'', 12 on the centerline and 6 on the sides.
Quote from: TexanCowboy on October 15, 2009, 08:18:39 PM
Not to get in your way, or anything, but I think that it would work better with triple 9'', 12 on the centerline and 6 on the sides.
Did you just seriously say it should have 4x3x9" on centerline and 2x3x9" in wing turrets?
......... yessss.... :-[
Quote from: TexanCowboy on October 15, 2009, 08:36:14 PM
......... yessss.... :-[
Can you say "FLOATING AMMO HULK" and "GOLDEN TWINKIE"?
Yeah... but that does sound entertaining. :)
Back on subject, now, doesn't Rohan have a triple 12''?
Quote from: TexanCowboy on October 15, 2009, 08:41:53 PM
Yeah... but that does sound entertaining. :)
Back on subject, now, doesn't Rohan have a triple 12''?
Golee Gee, I dont know... I supose I must since I have 6 ships with tripple, 12/50s on them already.....
9 12'' then? It would be more efficient, say, a faster Snowmane.
Quote from: TexanCowboy on October 15, 2009, 08:46:01 PM
9 12'' then? It would be more efficient, say, a faster Snowmane.
TC, if you'll note the original design. It has triple 12", 2 of them. 3 would cost weight, speed, or armor.
I like the Combat Cruiser - very handy and not too pricey
But given it might come up against 9-11" gun opposition ? - I think a bit more armour around the Mags would be worthwhile - esp the Deck
Quote from: mentat on October 15, 2009, 09:23:18 PM
I like the Combat Cruiser - very handy and not too pricey
But given it might come up against 9-11" gun opposition ? - I think a bit more armour around the Mags would be worthwhile - esp the Deck
I wanted a ship with resonable firepower that could hit 30 knots (absolute requirement) Honestly that one is about as good as I can get, for the price.
Quote from: mentat on October 15, 2009, 09:23:18 PM
But given it might come up against 9-11" gun opposition ? - I think a bit more armour around the Mags would be worthwhile - esp the Deck
Then they will run ...
Borys
Quote from: Borys on October 16, 2009, 12:33:18 AM
Quote from: mentat on October 15, 2009, 09:23:18 PM
But given it might come up against 9-11" gun opposition ? - I think a bit more armour around the Mags would be worthwhile - esp the Deck
Then they will run ...
Borys
actualy fairly accurate, if its up against one of the many 9-10" cruisers out there, it can either run away or maintain enough range to pumel most of them at range their guns cant even reach.
Well balanced combat cruiser.
Jef ;)
The Rohinium take on the large light cruisers that are becoming so prolific.
Light Cruiser Experimental, Rohan Light Cruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
8,600 t light; 8,891 t standard; 10,046 t normal; 10,970 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
600.00 ft / 590.00 ft x 59.00 ft x 21.00 ft (normal load)
182.88 m / 179.83 m x 17.98 m x 6.40 m
Armament:
10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (5x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,080 lbs / 490 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 438.00 ft / 133.50 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 114 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
- Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 84,000 shp / 62,664 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,079 tons
Complement:
501 - 652
Cost:
£1.550 million / $6.200 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 135 tons, 1.3 %
Armour: 1,471 tons, 14.6 %
- Belts: 750 tons, 7.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 58 tons, 0.6 %
- Armour Deck: 633 tons, 6.3 %
- Conning Tower: 30 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 3,130 tons, 31.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,665 tons, 36.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,446 tons, 14.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 2.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9,911 lbs / 4,495 Kg = 91.8 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 14.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.481
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.29 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.46 degrees
Stern overhang: -6.00 ft / -1.83 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 12.00 ft / 3.66 m (21.00 ft / 6.40 m before break)
- Stern: 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Average freeboard: 19.65 ft / 5.99 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 113.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 162.4 %
Waterplane Area: 22,800 Square feet or 2,118 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 478 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.40
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
This ship is just a study as to how large a ship can be built on a 30 knot minimum restriction. There are no current plans to build it but Opinions are welcome.
Rejected, Reviled, & Revolting, Rohan Battlecruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
26,600 t light; 27,946 t standard; 32,787 t normal; 36,660 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
808.00 ft / 794.00 ft x 96.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
246.28 m / 242.01 m x 29.26 m x 9.14 m
Armament:
6 - 15.50" / 394 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1,861.94lbs / 844.56kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (8x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (3x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1917 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 12,187 lbs / 5,528 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 539.00 ft / 164.29 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 539.00 ft / 164.29 m 27.01 ft / 8.23 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 126,000 shp / 93,153 Kw = 30.00+ kts
Range 8,525nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 8,714 tons
Complement:
1,217 - 1,583
Cost:
£5.204 million / $20.815 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,523 tons, 4.6 %
Armour: 6,998 tons, 21.3 %
- Belts: 2,536 tons, 7.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 808 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 1,639 tons, 5.0 %
- Armour Deck: 1,882 tons, 5.7 %
- Conning Tower: 132 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 4,652 tons, 14.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,027 tons, 39.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,187 tons, 18.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.2 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
39,098 lbs / 17,735 Kg = 21.0 x 15.5 " / 394 mm shells or 5.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 6.1 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 16.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.22
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.502
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.27 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
Stern overhang: -8.00 ft / -2.44 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 28.00 ft / 8.53 m (19.00 ft / 5.79 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Stern: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Average freeboard: 20.80 ft / 6.34 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.3 %
Waterplane Area: 50,871 Square feet or 4,726 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 179 lbs/sq ft or 876 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.11
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
400 tons Misc. Weight
250 tons FC
50 tons Radar Instalation
25 tons Wireless
25 tons Crew Comfort (Heating, Cooling, Aditional Coffee pots)
50 tons Reserved
She does as good as my attempts, but with bigger guns.
It's a Renown/Repulse. Could be useful if you can get Walter to post the Renowapulse.
You mean Repulnown, the twin BC?
Quote from: Tanthalas on October 15, 2009, 08:16:21 PM
Realising the need for Raiders as well as Escorts for the new Fast Battleships, Rohan has revived the Combat Cruiser Class. Here the new class to be named for the previous generation of Combat Cruisers (which I have mostly scraped)
Sorry for the late response...
A similiar concept to my latest armored cruisers.
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=673.msg48000#msg48000
My design is 2,000 tons heavier so it has some advantages but your ship has a MUCH heavier secondary battery. As a battle line escort it has much to commend it, however; some battle cruisers are getting near 30 knots with much heavier armor and weapons. Plus like my design it has issues facing older BC's with heavy armor even if 5 knots or more edge in speed.
Michael
no worries mike, yeah I have played with the 6X12" ship forever, but I finaly managed to get one I thought was worth building.
Quote from: TexanCowboy on October 22, 2009, 06:27:50 AM
It's a Renown/Repulse. Could be useful if you can get Walter to post the Renowapulse.
I did loosley base it off R&R although I would need to build 3 of them for the BCF. Originaly I had no intention whatsoever of building them, but the more I look at em the more tempting its geting.
mmm - i'm puzzled - what would they be useful for ?? - that the Combat Cruiser could not also do?
how about more balanced designs:
Fast BB type - bit bigger, only 28 knots but proper belt armour - 12"
Faster BC 31+ knots - but with 9 or 12 x 12"
Revised for Production, these ships will serve as the new Heavy element for the Scouting forces.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/RRR.gif) (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/RRR.gif)
Rhinvan, Rastiwen, & Ralwdda, Rohan Battlecruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
27,500 t light; 28,866 t standard; 33,808 t normal; 37,762 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
808.00 ft / 794.00 ft x 96.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
246.28 m / 242.01 m x 29.26 m x 9.14 m
Armament:
6 - 15.50" / 394 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1,861.94lbs / 844.56kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (8x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (3x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1917 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 12,187 lbs / 5,528 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 530.00 ft / 161.54 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 530.00 ft / 161.54 m 27.01 ft / 8.23 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 128,000 shp / 95,500 Kw = 30.00+ kts
Range 8,525nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 8,895 tons
Complement:
1,246 - 1,620
Cost:
£5.291 million / $21.163 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,523 tons, 4.5 %
Armour: 7,697 tons, 22.8 %
- Belts: 3,219 tons, 9.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 794 tons, 2.4 %
- Armament: 1,639 tons, 4.8 %
- Armour Deck: 1,909 tons, 5.6 %
- Conning Tower: 135 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 4,770 tons, 14.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,109 tons, 38.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,308 tons, 18.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.2 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
40,840 lbs / 18,525 Kg = 21.9 x 15.5 " / 394 mm shells or 5.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 6.1 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 16.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.517
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.27 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
Stern overhang: -8.00 ft / -2.44 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 28.00 ft / 8.53 m (19.00 ft / 5.79 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Stern: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Average freeboard: 20.80 ft / 6.34 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149.9 %
Waterplane Area: 51,606 Square feet or 4,794 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 178 lbs/sq ft or 871 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.09
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
400 tons Misc. Weight
250 tons FC
50 tons Radar Instalation
25 tons Wireless
25 tons Crew Comfort (Heating, Cooling, Aditional Coffee pots)
25 tons Flag Facilities
25 tons Reserved
QuoteIt's a Renown/Repulse. Could be useful if you can get Walter to post the Renowapulse.
Repulnown... Now where did I leave that one...
Ah. Here it is. :D
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg240/WvRooijen/Repulnown.png)
Quote from: Walter on October 24, 2009, 01:41:10 PM
QuoteIt's a Renown/Repulse. Could be useful if you can get Walter to post the Renowapulse.
Repulnown... Now where did I leave that one...
Ah. Here it is. :D
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg240/WvRooijen/Repulnown.png)
not going to happen... although I did just finish the pic of them
Late one nite, an unknown person sliped into the Rohan BuShips, and placed the Following plans on the Directors desk. (no I dont realy plan to build her but it is an interesting BB =P )
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/Eorl.gif) (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/Eorl.gif)
(forgive me the pic isnt finished yet)
Eorl, Rohan Battleship laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
29,000 t light; 30,414 t standard; 31,669 t normal; 32,673 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
641.00 ft / 630.00 ft x 101.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
195.38 m / 192.02 m x 30.78 m x 8.23 m
Armament:
6 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
3 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (1x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
on centreline amidships
4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all aft, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (8x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1917 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 13,522 lbs / 6,134 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 474.00 ft / 144.48 m 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
Ends: 7.00" / 178 mm 156.00 ft / 47.55 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Main Belt covers 116 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 474.00 ft / 144.48 m 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 7.00" / 178 mm 14.0" / 356 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
4th: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
5th: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
- Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 40,000 shp / 29,840 Kw = 21.52 kts
Range 5,750nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,259 tons
Complement:
1,186 - 1,543
Cost:
£4.806 million / $19.225 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,690 tons, 5.3 %
Armour: 12,321 tons, 38.9 %
- Belts: 5,651 tons, 17.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 710 tons, 2.2 %
- Armament: 2,067 tons, 6.5 %
- Armour Deck: 3,591 tons, 11.3 %
- Conning Tower: 302 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 1,490 tons, 4.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,808 tons, 40.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,669 tons, 8.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 690 tons, 2.2 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
56,388 lbs / 25,577 Kg = 41.1 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 9.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 6.4 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 16.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.69
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.58
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.645
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.24 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.10 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Mid (50 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Quarterdeck (0 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Stern: 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Average freeboard: 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.5 %
Waterplane Area: 48,529 Square feet or 4,508 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 196 lbs/sq ft or 958 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.72
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
As a counter to the previous misthought proposal the Admiralty of the High Seas Fleet has proposed the following ship. Only 800 tons heavier than the previous insane proposal she would be only 1000 tons heavier than the Preceding 12X14" ships. (credit to sam for managing to break me out of my rut the ship was mostly his idea)
This ship is intended for Production
BB-20 Eorl
BB-21 Peregrin
Eorl, Rohan Battleship laid down 1917 (Engine 1920)
Displacement:
29,800 t light; 31,409 t standard; 33,995 t normal; 36,064 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
686.00 ft / 680.00 ft x 110.25 ft x 28.50 ft (normal load)
209.09 m / 207.26 m x 33.60 m x 8.69 m
Armament:
8 - 15.50" / 394 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,951.00lbs / 884.96kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (8x2 guns), 45.00lbs / 20.41kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (2x2 guns), 45.00lbs / 20.41kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1917 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 16,522 lbs / 7,494 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 442.00 ft / 134.72 m 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 238.00 ft / 72.54 m 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 442.00 ft / 134.72 m 31.50 ft / 9.60 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 7.00" / 178 mm 14.0" / 356 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
4th: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
- Armour deck: 3.50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 44,000 shp / 32,824 Kw = 22.10 kts
Range 8,525nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,655 tons
Complement:
1,251 - 1,627
Cost:
£5.308 million / $21.233 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,978 tons, 5.8 %
Armour: 11,889 tons, 35.0 %
- Belts: 4,453 tons, 13.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 773 tons, 2.3 %
- Armament: 2,937 tons, 8.6 %
- Armour Deck: 3,410 tons, 10.0 %
- Conning Tower: 317 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,538 tons, 4.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,895 tons, 40.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,195 tons, 12.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.5 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
57,690 lbs / 26,168 Kg = 31.0 x 15.5 " / 394 mm shells or 10.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 7.5 ft / 2.3 m
Roll period: 16.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.36
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.557
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.17 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.08 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.61 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Mid (70 %): 23.00 ft / 7.01 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Stern: 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 20.30 ft / 6.19 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 167.8 %
Waterplane Area: 52,659 Square feet or 4,892 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 201 lbs/sq ft or 981 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.40
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
500 tons misc. weight
250 tons FC
25 tons Radar Instalation
25 tons Wireless
25 tons Crew Comfort (Heating, Cooling, Aditional Coffee pots)
60 tons Flag Facilities
10 tons Flag Stateroom
5 tons Capitans stateroom
100 tons Reserve (future growth, or if required even more Coffee pots)
Good solid BB
query on arrangement for the Rear superfiring Secs .....
Ahoj!
Seemingly solid design, but ...
- slowish, even by Habsburg standards;
- extremally underarmoured - there is only 7'6" of the MB sticking above the WL (waterline). Maybe cut down MB to 13", and the AD to 3", and spend the balance on either a broader MB, or an 8FT UB of at least 8";
I'd venture that the "centerline ends" secondaries are on the tops of turrets Bruno and Caesar.
Borys
they are basicly just like on Asfaloth, I havnt drawn her yet but im fairly sure they should fit.
The Final version of the Eldacar class Combat CRuiser Planed class of 6. These ships when compleated will serve with the Asfaloth class fast battle ships.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/EldacarSisters.gif) (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/EldacarSisters.gif)
Eldacar
Alcarin
Ondoher
Narmacil
Romendacil
Valandil
Eldacar, Rohan Combat Cruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1920)
Displacement:
17,000 t light; 17,945 t standard; 21,199 t normal; 23,802 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
684.00 ft / 671.00 ft x 78.00 ft x 28.00 ft (normal load)
208.48 m / 204.52 m x 23.77 m x 8.53 m
Armament:
6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x3 guns), 926.00lbs / 420.03kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (8x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (2x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1917 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 6,481 lbs / 2,940 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 140
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 403.00 ft / 122.83 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
4th: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 101,000 shp / 75,346 Kw = 30.02 kts
Range 8,525nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5,858 tons
Complement:
877 - 1,141
Cost:
£3.147 million / $12.588 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 764 tons, 3.6 %
Armour: 4,153 tons, 19.6 %
- Belts: 1,932 tons, 9.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 825 tons, 3.9 %
- Armour Deck: 1,298 tons, 6.1 %
- Conning Tower: 99 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 3,531 tons, 16.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,147 tons, 38.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,199 tons, 19.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 405 tons, 1.9 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
27,829 lbs / 12,623 Kg = 32.2 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 15.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.25
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.506
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.60 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.90 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
Stern overhang: -8.00 ft / -2.44 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Mid (50 %): 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m (23.00 ft / 7.01 m before break)
- Stern: 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 21.44 ft / 6.53 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 175.2 %
Waterplane Area: 35,073 Square feet or 3,258 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 149 lbs/sq ft or 729 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.57
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
405 tons Misc. Weight
250 tons FC
25 tons Radar
25 tons Wireless
25 tons Crew Comfort (Heating, Cooling, Aditional Coffee pots)
25 tons Flag Facilities
55 tons Reserved
Ahoj!
Hmmm, aren't the NeoSwiss contemplating something similar?
I feel a lack of a boat deck - any chance to bring those centerline secondaries down to the sides?
Borys
Quote from: Borys on November 21, 2009, 04:34:32 PM
Ahoj!
Hmmm, aren't the NeoSwiss contemplating something similar?
I feel a lack of a boat deck - any chance to bring those centerline secondaries down to the sides?
Borys
... I was planing it first =P its Rohans responce to the Whealers. and while I could move them down to deck level then I would have to move the AA mounts up causing the same basic problem. Basicly this is how Rohan responds to the treaty cruisers (honestly I think it could swat anything it couldnt just flat out run away from)
Ahoj!
I clicked the piccie. Lovely line drawing!
And I finaly noticed the useless mount on the bow!
Borys
Nice drawing & well balanced Combat Cruiser
;)
I thought as I had 4 under construction I realy should get around to posting these (the pic took like literaly forever). Intended as the light escorts for the Asfolath Battleships Range and Firepower erre Major Considerations on these ships
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/CLX.gif) (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/CLX.gif)
Forod Sul, Rohan Light Cruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
6,000 t light; 6,238 t standard; 7,322 t normal; 8,190 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
557.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 55.00 ft x 20.00 ft (normal load)
169.77 m / 167.64 m x 16.76 m x 6.10 m
Armament:
10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (5x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
2 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1917 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in a deck mount with hoist
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
2 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1917 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in a deck mount with hoist
on centreline amidships, all raised guns - superfiring
Weight of broadside 1,087 lbs / 493 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 385.00 ft / 117.35 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
- Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 54,000 shp (53,472 actual) / 39,890 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,952 tons
Complement:
395 - 514
Cost:
£1.096 million / $4.386 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 136 tons, 1.9 %
Armour: 905 tons, 12.4 %
- Belts: 473 tons, 6.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 58 tons, 0.8 %
- Armour Deck: 350 tons, 4.8 %
- Conning Tower: 24 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 1,992 tons, 27.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,759 tons, 37.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,322 tons, 18.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 208 tons, 2.8 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
7,622 lbs / 3,457 Kg = 70.6 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 13.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.424
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19.30 degrees
Stern overhang: -4.50 ft / -1.37 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Mid (51 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (10 %): 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Stern: 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Average freeboard: 16.08 ft / 4.90 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124.1 %
Waterplane Area: 18,907 Square feet or 1,757 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 91 lbs/sq ft or 443 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.28
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
208 tons Misc. Weight
100 tons FC
50 tons Radar
25 tons Marconi
12 tons torps
12 tons Crew Comfort
8 tons Reserve
1 tons Capitans Quarters
Radar's only 25t, so unless you've got 2 you've got some extra wiggle room.
Quote from: Sachmle on December 12, 2009, 11:08:31 PM
Radar's only 25t, so unless you've got 2 you've got some extra wiggle room.
Damn new I forgot somthing... oh well another 25 tons reserve I supose
Underarmoured - otherwise I like her a lot.
As to the piccie - Emil turretseems to be too far aft.
Borys
Quote from: Borys on December 13, 2009, 07:46:20 AM
Underarmoured - otherwise I like her a lot.
As to the piccie - Emil turretseems to be too far aft.
Borys
I agree its definetly lacking in the armor catagory, initialy I intended to use the 5.25" unified CL/DD/secondary for its main guns... but it isnt finished yet so I had to go with 6" instead thus it lost a bit of armor and some range. as for the Pic I actualy made a mistake when I initialy did the SS on her and decided to keep it (it was suposed to be 15% Forecastle and 15% Quarterdeck instead I set it at 20% and 10%) the aft most gun sits dead on at 10% (it looks a little odd Ill admit but its dead on where it should be)
I don't have such an issue with the after turret cluster (though the SS probably ought to be "centerline ends, majority aft"). My question is the after funnel: is the after boiler room aft of the turbine spaces?
Also, I'm not sure that 1.5" AA guns need hoists. Even the 1.1" and 40mm AA guns designed onto US ships of the late 30's and WW2 era didn't have hoists. Clips were all hand passed. I believe that was true of RN Pom-Poms as well.
Quote from: Guinness on December 13, 2009, 11:49:40 AM
I don't have such an issue with the after turret cluster (though the SS probably ought to be "centerline ends, majority aft"). My question is the after funnel: is the after boiler room aft of the turbine spaces?
Also, I'm not sure that 1.5" AA guns need hoists. Even the 1.1" and 40mm AA guns designed onto US ships of the late 30's and WW2 era didn't have hoists. Clips were all hand passed. I believe that was true of RN Pom-Poms as well.
It can be swaped around however, it will work Majority Forward, Aft, or distributed. As to the 1.5s not needing hoists... I didnt want to hear that (every one of my ships mounting the 1.5" twin has them in hoists so the Asfolaths, the CCs, and these CLs)
and last but not least, the funnel uhm balance? I had them both forward and didnt like it so I moved it aft with vague notions about a single boiler used for electrical generation or somthing
I guess the Rohirim are just lazy :)
I don't know this, but I suspect that large caliber autocannon didn't get hoists because it was just quicker to hand pass the ammunition when you needed it. My guess is it was difficult to design a hoist that could keep up without breaking down a lot.
Some guns were chain fed anyway, so you wouldn't need a hoist in the classic sense, but many were also clip fed, and a clip of say 40mm ammunition was sized just right for passing it around without wearing anyone out too much.
At least, that's my guess.
IDK I was operating on the understanding that twin mounts had to have hoists when I did it initialy, I can see what kind of Diferance (if any) it makes swaping them for just deck mounts. it wouldnt be to hard to change all 3 SS files.
I don't think hoists are required on mounts for guns under 3 pounders (57mm).
Really, when we're talking about the light cruiser architecture tech, we're referring to the primary armament, or primary and secondary in non-uniform main armament ships (ie, a ship with 6in and 4in guns, etc). Anything that is a machine gun or an autocannon certainly shouldn't need a hoist to be mounted in a twin mount.
Nice global concept but...
The studying & the building of the hull is certainly hard.
- Boilers rooms (the second funnel is in the place of the aft CT - ?)
- Turbines rooms
- Magasines of th 3rd turrets
- Ventilators.
Not easy, I think ???
Jef
After some intensive thought and study I decided Guinness is right and we are over doing our DDs so I reworked the 1916 class DDs Rohan is curently building this is unless there are any Major objections to be considerd the Final production version of this ship
DD1601, Rohan Destroyer laid down 1916
Displacement:
1,000 t light; 1,044 t standard; 1,269 t normal; 1,449 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
335.00 ft / 330.00 ft x 30.00 ft x 11.10 ft (normal load)
102.11 m / 100.58 m x 9.14 m x 3.38 m
Armament:
5 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns in single mounts, 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1916 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
6 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1916 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward
Weight of broadside 229 lbs / 104 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.50" / 13 mm 0.50" / 13 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 25,138 shp / 18,753 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 2,971nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 404 tons
Complement:
106 - 138
Cost:
£0.241 million / $0.964 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 29 tons, 2.3 %
Armour: 9 tons, 0.7 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 9 tons, 0.7 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 630 tons, 49.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 284 tons, 22.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 269 tons, 21.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 48 tons, 3.8 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
259 lbs / 118 Kg = 5.7 x 4.5 " / 114 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 11.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.83
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.404
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.17 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 85
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17.34 degrees
Stern overhang: -2.50 ft / -0.76 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Mid (33 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (10 %): 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Stern: 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Average freeboard: 10.64 ft / 3.24 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 181.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 64.7 %
Waterplane Area: 6,109 Square feet or 568 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 59 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 131 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 0.87
- Overall: 0.52
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather
48 tons Misc. Weight
25 tons Wireless
12 tons 6XTorpedos (no reloads)
4 tons 12XDeapth Charges (stern Racks)
2 tons Crew Comfort (Coffee pots, and stuff)
5 tons Reserve
Trial Speed: 32 knots
Ranges
617 @ 31 knots
850 @ 28 knots
2250 @ 20 knots
2971 @ 18 knots
Since Everyone is talking about what to do with Various old ships I decided to post up what im considering doing with Rohans 6 Protodreads. This would rebuild them as a unified class of light Battle ship. The Plan would be to reuse the the turrets and various other bits from them in a compleat new hull. Opinions are welcome as im not sure this is the right route to take with them but it is somthing im considering.
You can see the Protodreads here
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=56.msg865#msg865
and here is the proposed new ship
Theoden, Rohan Battlehsip laid down 1919 (Engine 1920)
Displacement:
22,800 t light; 23,794 t standard; 25,973 t normal; 27,716 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
711.00 ft / 700.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 28.00 ft (normal load)
216.71 m / 213.36 m x 28.04 m x 8.53 m
Armament:
8 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 926.00lbs / 420.03kg shells, 1919 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (8x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1919 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (2x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1919 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1919 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
12 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1919 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 8,335 lbs / 3,781 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 280.00 ft / 85.34 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 26.10 ft / 7.96 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 9.00" / 229 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
5th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 65,583 shp / 48,925 Kw = 26.01 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,922 tons
Complement:
1,022 - 1,329
Cost:
£4.237 million / $16.950 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 980 tons, 3.8 %
Armour: 9,175 tons, 35.3 %
- Belts: 4,079 tons, 15.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 608 tons, 2.3 %
- Armament: 1,984 tons, 7.6 %
- Armour Deck: 2,390 tons, 9.2 %
- Conning Tower: 113 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,293 tons, 8.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,918 tons, 38.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,173 tons, 12.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 434 tons, 1.7 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
44,955 lbs / 20,391 Kg = 52.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 7.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 16.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.35
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.504
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.61 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.46 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
Stern overhang: -6.00 ft / -1.83 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Mid (70 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Stern: 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Average freeboard: 19.30 ft / 5.88 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 164.6 %
Waterplane Area: 43,070 Square feet or 4,001 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 164 lbs/sq ft or 798 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.17
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Misc. Weight: 434 tons
250 tons FC
25 tons Wireless
50 tons Flag Facilities
25 tons Radar instalation
50 tons Reserve
30 tons Crew Comfort
2 tons Capitans Cabin
2 tons Admirals Cabin
Actual cost 20$ 20BP due to reuse of Turrets and various bits from the Protodreads
I am REALLY not sure that doing a Vangaurd on ships with L35, MAYBE, L40 weapons is a good investment.
L42, to be exact.
Quote from: miketr on December 27, 2009, 08:18:43 PM
I am REALLY not sure that doing a Vangaurd on ships with L35, MAYBE, L40 weapons is a good investment.
... they have 12/42.5 same guns as the Arcadias, and the 9X12" & 12X12" BCs. I belive Ithekro sold or scraped all the ships that had 12/35 and 12/40
Nah...CDS a few of them and scrap the rest. For what you're spending in new material you may as well just build new 14" turrets and call them light BBs.
Quote from: Sachmle on December 27, 2009, 08:39:36 PM
Nah...CDS a few of them and scrap the rest. For what you're spending in new material you may as well just build new 14" turrets and call them light BBs.
Esentialy im using them as CDS atm, the 12" squadron (including the Arcadias) is posted to the Canal zone. I can rebuild them for far less than the full new ship but im not sure that would be worth it either.
as to 14" that exact hull can take 6X14" in either 2 tripples or 3 twins (you realy dont want to ask how I know that)
OK scrap the previous idea, I decided it isnt worth it. However I think this might be and I think I even got the cost right...
Brandybuck (Invincible Reconstruction 1920)
BP $
Base Price 1.60 4.00
Bow lengthend 5% 1.53 1.53
New B turret added 0.39 0.78
New Secondaries 0.32 0.64
New Engines 0.84 0.84
Oil Fire conversion 0.00 1.00
Torpedo Bulkhead 0.48 0.48
Fire Control added 0.25 0.25
Total 5.41 9.52
Brandybuck (1920 reconstruction), Rohan Battleship laid down 1905 (Engine 1920)
Displacement:
16,817 t light; 17,905 t standard; 19,880 t normal; 21,460 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
590.00 ft / 585.00 ft x 82.02 ft x 24.15 ft (normal load)
179.83 m / 178.31 m x 25.00 m x 7.36 m
Armament:
8 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1905 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (8x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1905 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.58lbs / 13.87kg shells, 1905 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
3 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.58lbs / 13.87kg shells, 1905 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.17lbs / 1.44kg shells, 1905 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 8,015 lbs / 3,636 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 380.25 ft / 115.90 m 10.86 ft / 3.31 m
Ends: 4.33" / 110 mm 204.73 ft / 62.40 m 10.86 ft / 3.31 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 380.25 ft / 115.90 m 22.77 ft / 6.94 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 6.50" / 165 mm 13.0" / 330 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 1.30" / 33 mm - -
4th: 1.30" / 33 mm - -
5th: 0.87" / 22 mm - -
- Armour deck: 2.36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 24,000 shp / 17,904 Kw = 20.32 kts
Range 9,070nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,555 tons
Complement:
836 - 1,088
Cost:
£1.548 million / $6.191 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,002 tons, 5.0 %
Armour: 7,024 tons, 35.3 %
- Belts: 2,678 tons, 13.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 479 tons, 2.4 %
- Armament: 2,129 tons, 10.7 %
- Armour Deck: 1,533 tons, 7.7 %
- Conning Tower: 206 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 839 tons, 4.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,652 tons, 38.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,063 tons, 15.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.5 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
37,432 lbs / 16,979 Kg = 43.3 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 6.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 16.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.55
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.600
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.13 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.19 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.78 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Stern: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.21 ft / 6.16 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 157.5 %
Waterplane Area: 35,108 Square feet or 3,262 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 154 lbs/sq ft or 750 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.43
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
this is not a serious ship (atleast I dont think it is at the moment) but I would apreciate any opinions on it (and yes I know its freking HUGE)
Maximum BB Study, Rohan Battle Ship laid down 1919 (Engine 1920)
Displacement:
44,000 t light; 45,962 t standard; 51,611 t normal; 56,130 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
878.00 ft / 860.00 ft x 118.00 ft x 31.60 ft (normal load)
267.61 m / 262.13 m x 35.97 m x 9.63 m
Armament:
8 - 15.50" / 394 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,951.00lbs / 884.96kg shells, 1919 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns in single mounts, 45.00lbs / 20.41kg shells, 1919 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 8 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns in single mounts, 45.00lbs / 20.41kg shells, 1919 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1919 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
16 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1919 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 16,525 lbs / 7,496 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 560.00 ft / 170.69 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 300.00 ft / 91.44 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 560.00 ft / 170.69 m 31.50 ft / 9.60 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 7.00" / 178 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
5th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
- Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 154,000 shp / 114,884 Kw = 29.34 kts
Range 8,525nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 10,168 tons
Complement:
1,711 - 2,225
Cost:
£8.630 million / $34.519 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,978 tons, 3.8 %
Armour: 15,504 tons, 30.0 %
- Belts: 5,248 tons, 10.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 979 tons, 1.9 %
- Armament: 3,611 tons, 7.0 %
- Armour Deck: 5,307 tons, 10.3 %
- Conning Tower: 358 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 5,385 tons, 10.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 20,248 tons, 39.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,611 tons, 14.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 885 tons, 1.7 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
87,301 lbs / 39,599 Kg = 46.9 x 15.5 " / 394 mm shells or 13.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 8.3 ft / 2.5 m
Roll period: 17.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.33
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.563
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.29 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.33 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
Stern overhang: -8.00 ft / -2.44 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 36.00 ft / 10.97 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Mid (50 %): 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m (27.00 ft / 8.23 m before break)
- Stern: 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Average freeboard: 26.37 ft / 8.04 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 215.5 %
Waterplane Area: 71,711 Square feet or 6,662 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 206 lbs/sq ft or 1,005 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.21
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
885 tons Misc. Weight
250 tons 1912 Battleship FC
100 tons 1912 Cruiser FC set (control of Secondary guns)
100 tons Flag Facilities
100 tons Crew Comfort(Lots of Coffee Pots, improved climatization, Stuff like that)
90 tons Aircraft (one twin engined plane and support Facilities)
10 tons Large Crane (for lifting above mentiond aircraft)
25 tons Long Range Wierless set
25 tons Reserve Long Range Wierless set
25 Tons Radar
25 tons Reserve Radar
9 tons Admerals Quarters (think a 1st class Cabin on Le Magnificent)
2 tons Capitans quarters
124 tons reserved (more Coffee pots, TVs and stuff in the future)
Ahoj!
Underarmoured.
Borys
Underarmoured and Undergunned.
Over the 35,000 HP/Shaft limit.
1920 is 40 000 HP shaft
Quote from: Borys on January 03, 2010, 07:59:59 AM
Ahoj!
Underarmoured.
Borys
im afraid I disagree on that point, this ship posesses Improved KC (+10% armor) and a 10 deg. Incline to the belt (+10% armor) so the equivilant armor is about 14.4" and the Deck is equivilant to 5"
Quote from: Logi on January 03, 2010, 09:14:24 AM
Underarmoured and Undergunned.
See above on the armor coment logi, and I supose arming a ship REALISTICLY would make it undergunned (since its armed exactly the same as Iowa sans the jilion AAA guns and one main gun)
Quote from: TexanCowboy on January 03, 2010, 09:49:05 AM
Over the 35,000 HP/Shaft limit.
TC if I wanted to I could lay down a ship using 160K shp for 1918
Quoteand I supose arming a ship REALISTICLY would make it undergunned (since its armed exactly the same as Iowa sans the jilion AAA guns and one main gun)
Nothing I just prefer the firepower over speed, where the Iowa prioritizes speed.
so more playing around with what to do with the protodreads, as always opinions are welcome. Personaly though if I intend to keep them this realy may be the best option (and you all know im a 12" gun junky)
Theoden, Rohan Battleship laid down 1919 (Engine 1920)
Displacement:
24,000 t light; 25,055 t standard; 28,993 t normal; 32,144 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
701.00 ft / 689.00 ft x 95.00 ft x 31.00 ft (normal load)
213.66 m / 210.01 m x 28.96 m x 9.45 m
Armament:
8 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 926.00lbs / 420.03kg shells, 1919 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (8x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1919 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (2x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1919 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1919 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 8,333 lbs / 3,780 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 413.00 ft / 125.88 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 276.00 ft / 84.12 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 413.00 ft / 125.88 m 31.50 ft / 9.60 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 11.0" / 279 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
4th: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 11.00" / 279 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 94,000 shp / 70,124 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 8,525nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,089 tons
Complement:
1,110 - 1,444
Cost:
£4.630 million / $18.521 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 980 tons, 3.4 %
Armour: 8,839 tons, 30.5 %
- Belts: 3,599 tons, 12.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 722 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 1,873 tons, 6.5 %
- Armour Deck: 2,421 tons, 8.3 %
- Conning Tower: 224 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 3,281 tons, 11.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,436 tons, 36.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,993 tons, 17.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 465 tons, 1.6 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
45,398 lbs / 20,592 Kg = 52.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 7.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 17.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.28
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.25 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
Stern overhang: -6.00 ft / -1.83 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Mid (70 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Stern: 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 21.60 ft / 6.58 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 164.7 %
Waterplane Area: 43,615 Square feet or 4,052 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 164 lbs/sq ft or 801 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.45
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Main belt inclined 10 deg. Armor Improved KC (11" equivilant to 13.2")
12/48 Main Guns and other misc parts reused from Proto Dreads (-1000 tons)
465 tons misc. weight
250 tons Fire Control (1918 version)
50 tons Flag Facilities
25 tons Radar instalation
25 tons Long Range Wireless
10 tons Flag Quarters
5 tons Capitans Quarters
25 tons Crew Comfort (yeah I know thats alot of Coffee pots)
25 tons one twin engine flying boat (Crane, Fuel, and Stuff)
50 tons reserved
Correct ship, well balanced...
- 4T2x12" are light for 24000t
- Correct protection
- you can increase the beam ratio & increase the speed
- Exellent range for raids
- Good ship for screening Rohan BBs
Jef ;)
It's a fullly armored battlecruiser. Very Teutonic if you ask me. It's probably perfectly appropriate compared to what is running around the pacific right now.
All that said, I'd be curious to see what a similar ship with a 2.5" deck and 10" belt gets you.
Quote from: Guinness on February 16, 2010, 07:52:16 AM
It's a fullly armored battlecruiser. Very Teutonic if you ask me. It's probably perfectly appropriate compared to what is running around the pacific right now.
All that said, I'd be curious to see what a similar ship with a 2.5" deck and 10" belt gets you.
It slims down around 500 tons. not sure its worth it realy (for 1K tons I would likley consider it)
on the 44k tonner - the range seems very high - 10,000 tons of fuel ?!
The Leviathan thread from maybe 2 months ago is interesting for comparison on 40 k tonners ...
For the 44K ton ship an inclined Belt means you need more of it to cover the same space. I think the Inclined Belt needs to be taller otherwise you are giving up some of your protection.
Otherwise its an Iowa with bigger guns and less speed.
Quote from: mentat on February 17, 2010, 06:35:52 AM
on the 44k tonner - the range seems very high - 10,000 tons of fuel ?!
I admit it sounds a lot, but compared to a OTL ship (Bismarck, ~41250 (metric) tons light) which carried some 8000 tons and wasn't exactly known for her range, it sounds reasonable - for a long range vessel.
as always opinions welcome, but remember its intended to serve with the battle line, for referance here is Berold (http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=56.msg31244#msg31244). Odds of this class entering production are oh about 50/50 at this point.
Erol, Rohan Battleship laid down 1919 (Engine 1920)
Displacement:
27,000 t light; 28,522 t standard; 29,559 t normal; 30,389 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
618.00 ft / 618.00 ft x 103.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
188.37 m / 188.37 m x 31.39 m x 9.14 m
Armament:
8 - 15.50" / 394 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,951.00lbs / 884.96kg shells, 1919 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (8x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1919 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (2x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1919 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1919 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 16,533 lbs / 7,499 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 383.00 ft / 116.74 m 17.60 ft / 5.36 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 235.00 ft / 71.63 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 383.00 ft / 116.74 m 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
- Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 40,000 shp / 29,840 Kw = 21.92 kts
Range 5,750nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,867 tons
Complement:
1,126 - 1,465
Cost:
£6.110 million / $24.439 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,978 tons, 6.7 %
Armour: 10,858 tons, 36.7 %
- Belts: 4,078 tons, 13.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 638 tons, 2.2 %
- Armament: 2,633 tons, 8.9 %
- Armour Deck: 3,262 tons, 11.0 %
- Conning Tower: 247 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 1,387 tons, 4.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,302 tons, 41.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,559 tons, 8.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 476 tons, 1.6 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
43,584 lbs / 19,769 Kg = 23.4 x 15.5 " / 394 mm shells or 7.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 6.3 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 17.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.75
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.52
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.542
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.86 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Mid (70 %): 23.00 ft / 7.01 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Stern: 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Average freeboard: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 160.0 %
Waterplane Area: 44,082 Square feet or 4,095 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 203 lbs/sq ft or 989 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.78
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
The Misc. weight would be similar to Asfaloth, the main belt is inclined 10 Deg, and made of improved KC armor
In that case, let me recommend not to build these, and build more Asfaloth's. xD
Quote from: TexanCowboy on February 23, 2010, 03:58:17 PM
In that case, let me recommend not to build these, and build more Asfaloth's. xD
Cant Asfaloth Production is Caped at 4 by the RNT (mostly because the last 2 should I build them will lay down in H218 during the RNT negotiations and they are over 35K tons)
A 27 knot Asfaloth?
Quote from: TexanCowboy on February 23, 2010, 06:17:28 PM
A 27 knot Asfaloth?
You may not know this (since you wernt around for most of the Nverse) but basicly on BBs Rohan has followed US theory. the Preceading BBs are the Standards (with 4 8 gun ships instead of Wyoming, Arkansas, Texas, and New York) then you have the 2 10 gun ships followed by the 12 gun ships (technicly I should be building a few more 12X14" ships) these would be the Colorado equivilant for the fleet. on another note I could swap the 8X15.5 for 12X14" and build them as standards.
Err....in the Pacific, Speed is good!
Quote from: TexanCowboy on February 23, 2010, 06:47:53 PM
Err....in the Pacific, Speed is good!
Generaly a true statement, however realy where do I have to go? Rohan is the US at this point OTL without having to defend 2 Oceans. Anyone that wants to fight me has to come into my parlor. Asfaloth and her Sisters are the Lexington equivilants for the fleet and as such will always form a seperate fast wing (or operate with the scouting forces). Any ship that cant make 28 knots will be a liability in that aspect. The Line however will hang aorund 22 knots allowing all of the 14" BBs to operate with it (ala the plan of the US Standards)
I'd call that battleship good money for value, really.
I agree excellent design for the Money good solid dependible and looks remarkebly like the BB Design Im working on which is a 12 Gunned 22 Knot BB with almost exactly the same armor lay out. All at around 28K tons.
But then I am also adopting the US strategy of a 22knt Battle Line. For Operations in the Med and Indian Oceans. I do need some faster Scouts and Armored Cruisers for long range trade protection however :'(
Exellent BB
IMO, 12" is short for the belt.
I increase the thickness of the belt & decrease the height to have the same weight.
Jef ;)
'
Agree with Jefgte - a nice solid 'R class style BB ;D - but MB too thin vs. 15" gunfire at normal battle ranges
- as well as decreasing MB height - the EB could also be a tad thinner/narrower - I think a 340/350mm MB should be the target
12" base +1.2" (10%) for the incline + 1.2" (10%) for the Improved KC armor = 14.4" equivilant. the Oddball height on the belt is a base height of 16' but inclined 10 deg so I added 10% to the height to ensure it coverd the full 16' aka 2 decks.
People keep forgetting that when you dont have an upper belt and you are using an inclined belt you have to make the Main Belt higher to get full coverage. I think Guinness pointed that out to me along with the fact that on a 28 knot ship you didnt want wave action leaving hits that would go under the belt below the water line..... :o
That and the Increased efficency of an Incline along with the New Improved Krupp Armor means we can skimp a little on weight and still get the same protection. That and Typical Battle Ranges have moved out to around 12K Yards.
Of Course they are right once they close to under 12K yards with a 15" or 16" gun well 12" or Armor wont help but then again I dont think 16" or armor would help to much either.
I speced the armor out using Big Gun, which while not the most accurate atleast gives a guy somewhat of an idea. Realy these have better coverage and protection than the preceading BB classes.
I'm in the camp that believes BigGun is somewhat optimistic, and prefer NAaB. Of course, I'm also in the camp that doesn't believe inclined belts on BBs are worth it. Internal inclined belts in particular are likely to admit water into the hull of the ship even while holding shells out, which seems a dangerous design feature. And as we've pointed out, inclined belts are necessarily taller than non-inclined in most cases, which means they are giving back some of their weight savings.
But that's just me.
OTOH, for someone like me, whose construction is being limited by the quality of his armor foundries, they're just skippy. ^_^
Hey I was just reading an Article concerning the Action of British, USN, and German Fuzes and Shells post Jutland.
I wonder how many of us actally realize our AP shells of this time period have really unreliable fuzes or that the filler of our shells explodes under compression of hitting armor even with cork replacing the Fuze ?????
As a note German AP Shells at Jutland were specked to penetrate 1/2 diameter plates at up to 30 Deg Oblique and still have reliable fuze action.
Krupp got it right.... but then at the Battle Ranges of Jutland the British 13.5" and 15" shells didnt need to Explose to do an awful lot of damage ;)
Ctw, thats right up there with the interesting little factoid that no armor over 8" was penitrated at Jutland.
Quote from: Tanthalas on February 25, 2010, 05:02:30 PM
Ctw, thats right up there with the interesting little factoid that no armor over 8" was penitrated at Jutland.
Was 9".
Quote from: ctwaterman on February 25, 2010, 04:55:58 PM
Hey I was just reading an Article concerning the Action of British, USN, and German Fuzes and Shells post Jutland.
I wonder how many of us actally realize our AP shells of this time period have really unreliable fuzes or that the filler of our shells explodes under compression of hitting armor even with cork replacing the Fuze ?????
As a note German AP Shells at Jutland were specked to penetrate 1/2 diameter plates at up to 30 Deg Oblique and still have reliable fuze action.
Krupp got it right.... but then at the Battle Ranges of Jutland the British 13.5" and 15" shells didnt need to Explose to do an awful lot of damage ;)
Yep...Thank FSM I'm "Germany" :D
*sends spies to steal DKB fuse designs*
The "APC shell" tech assumes the shell performance of Krupp (early) WWI shells.
I consider NaAB more useful, myself, even if it could be more user-friendly.
Quote from: P3D on February 25, 2010, 07:18:37 PM
The "APC shell" tech assumes the shell performance of Krupp (early) WWI shells.
I consider NaAB more useful, myself, even if it could be more user-friendly.
I agree on NAaB. User friendly it is not, semi-accurate it is.
That's the only reason that I prefer BigGun-it's just EASY.
NAaB has never worked for me, exactly. Granted, I've never put the time in to learn it completely, but there are just too damn many variables and boxes and things that you can neglect. Even with Sam walking me through it the other night, I couldn't get it to work.
I have never got it to work either, and I figure Big Gun is close enough
"FSM"?
Quote from: Sachmle on February 25, 2010, 07:27:12 PM
I agree on NAaB. User friendly it is not, semi-accurate it is.
But much more user friendly than the programs by Natan Okon on which it is based. Without any recent updates it's just another tool which needs reprogramming btw.
'FSM' = Flying Spaghetti Monster
I agree with the notion that anyone that wants to take on Rohan at sea will have to come to them, since one thing that Rohan does not have that the USA did in that time period is an oversea's possession (Philippines) which was the cornerstone of most American battle plans (the retaking or holding of the said location and the chain of islands needed to keep it supplied in the long term). Rohan has none of that. Central American Gondor is the main area that might be invaded with South American zone in present day Chile being a secondary concern. Neither of these areas will require all that much effort or logistics to defend as a group of islands across the Pacific Ocean would. Gondor has a canal and two coasts, and can move the fleet around in days or a week rather than a month to shift forces from the Atlantic to the Pacific.
Also Gondor was well defended last I checked rather that the weak Asiatic Fleet the US had. "Chile" is weakly defended I believe, but again, its not that far away from other Rohirrim territory that it can't be relieved by existing vessels.
Rohan was operating on the notion of firepower in numbers if I recall. It had a rather top heavy fleet with lots of battleships and overly large cruisers when it started in 1898. It also tended at the time to be one of the slower fleets in the world based on the "they need to come to me anyway" model. This has shifted due to changed in fire control making it possible for combat to take place outside of "at the time" Rohirrimm weapon ranges, and the need to catch fast raiders the were becoming the rage in the Pacific (Swiss and DKB vessels of 1906...the first battlecruisers). Firepower is still prime...but only if you can catch and hit the target before they hit you.
with the RNT a fact of life now I had to rework the third Asfolath class ship slightly so here it is.
Arroch(Asfaloth treaty compliant single ship), Rohan Fast Battleship laid down 1918 (Engine 1920)
Displacement:
35,200 t light; 37,473 t standard; 43,871 t normal; 48,989 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
808.00 ft / 792.00 ft x 118.00 ft x 31.00 ft (normal load)
246.28 m / 241.40 m x 35.97 m x 9.45 m
Armament:
8 - 15.50" / 394 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,951.00lbs / 884.96kg shells, 1918 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (6 mounts), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1918 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
4 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (2x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1918 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1918 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
8 - 0.00" / 0.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.00lbs / 0.00kg shells, 1918 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 16,533 lbs / 7,499 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 500.00 ft / 152.40 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 500.00 ft / 152.40 m 29.00 ft / 8.84 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
4th: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 118,837 shp / 88,652 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 10,778nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 11,516 tons
Complement:
1,515 - 1,970
Cost:
£6.950 million / $27.799 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,978 tons, 4.5 %
Armour: 11,823 tons, 27.0 %
- Belts: 4,534 tons, 10.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 805 tons, 1.8 %
- Armament: 2,718 tons, 6.2 %
- Armour Deck: 3,553 tons, 8.1 %
- Conning Tower: 214 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 4,155 tons, 9.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,747 tons, 38.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 8,671 tons, 19.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 497 tons, 1.1 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
62,106 lbs / 28,171 Kg = 33.4 x 15.5 " / 394 mm shells or 10.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 8.4 ft / 2.5 m
Roll period: 17.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.18
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.530
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.71 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.14 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 29.75 degrees
Stern overhang: -8.00 ft / -2.44 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 28.00 ft / 8.53 m (19.00 ft / 5.79 m aft of break)
- Mid (60 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Stern: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Average freeboard: 20.80 ft / 6.34 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.9 %
Waterplane Area: 64,014 Square feet or 5,947 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 199 lbs/sq ft or 973 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.13
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Have you tired to do triple turrets for the 15.5" yet?
I'll have to go back to my old Wesworld Chilean BB sims to see what can be done with 17" guns under 35,000 tons. I know an 8 gun 17" job can be done on 40,000 tons, if you conserve weight someplace else. This suggests a 6 guns ship with 17" guns, but could it be fast enough to be worth the cost? (Repulse and Renown types as oppose to American trends with British undertones for Battlecruisers? Or worse...Glorious/Furious types.)
Hmm... Layout-wise...
The secondaries - twenty 4.5" in eight mounts? Four twins and four triples? And if so, why?
lepeder proved that 18'' can be done at under 40,000 tons, so I wouldn't doubt it.
Quote from: Ithekro on March 11, 2010, 06:02:15 PM
Have you tired to do triple turrets for the 15.5" yet?
I'll have to go back to my old Wesworld Chilean BB sims to see what can be done with 17" guns under 35,000 tons. I know an 8 gun 17" job can be done on 40,000 tons, if you conserve weight someplace else. This suggests a 6 guns ship with 17" guns, but could it be fast enough to be worth the cost? (Repulse and Renown types as oppose to American trends with British undertones for Battlecruisers? Or worse...Glorious/Furious types.)
the tripple 15.5 is under development (aka not finished when that ship layed down) the next class actualy has 10X15.5" (course it will be a slow BB to)
Quote from: Valles on March 11, 2010, 06:05:52 PM
Hmm... Layout-wise...
The secondaries - twenty 4.5" in eight mounts? Four twins and four triples? And if so, why?
Huh? its 20 guns in 10 twins, 4 mounts on each broadside, and one mount fore and aft raised over the MB just like asfaloth.
16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (6 mounts), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1918 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
4 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (2x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1918 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
ok thats wierd, ill have to open it back up and look cause they should have been the same as Asfaloth 16 6uns in 8 mounts (I dont think it will realy matter as I had like 30 tons slop but IDK)
this is a WTF moment, I know its not legit but I seriously dont know what happend with Spring Sharp. Maddox sent me the Spring Sharp file for one of his BBs, after I fixed the keyboard issues I converted it to Standerd Mesure instead of Metric and Spring Sharp gave me this (I know you cant reproduce it on the listed light tonage but im staring at it on my Monitor)
Pfew, CSA Tiny BB laid down 1919 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
21,027 t light; 22,421 t standard; 24,440 t normal; 26,055 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
557.74 ft / 554.46 ft x 85.30 ft x 28.71 ft (normal load)
170.00 m / 169.00 m x 26.00 m x 8.75 m
Armament:
9 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,674.25lbs / 759.43kg shells, 1919 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
Main guns limited to end-on fire
16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (8x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1919 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1919 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 16,074 lbs / 7,291 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.5" / 343 mm 360.40 ft / 109.85 m 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 360.40 ft / 109.85 m 27.39 ft / 8.35 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 10.0" / 254 mm 13.5" / 343 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 3.00" / 76 mm
- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 37,658 shp / 28,093 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,634 tons
Complement:
976 - 1,270
Cost:
£5.717 million / $22.867 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,009 tons, 8.2 %
Armour: 8,715 tons, 35.7 %
- Belts: 3,195 tons, 13.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 548 tons, 2.2 %
- Armament: 2,744 tons, 11.2 %
- Armour Deck: 1,974 tons, 8.1 %
- Conning Tower: 254 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 1,403 tons, 5.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,575 tons, 35.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,412 tons, 14.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 325 tons, 1.3 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
22,174 lbs / 10,058 Kg = 13.2 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 3.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.01
Metacentric height 4.0 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 17.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1.11
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.630
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.55 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.89 ft / 7.89 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Mid (50 %): 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Stern: 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Average freeboard: 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123.0 %
Waterplane Area: 35,571 Square feet or 3,305 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 170 lbs/sq ft or 831 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.70
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
I dont intend to build this ship, I just got a kick out of it and im on a wierd ships kick so I thought I would go ahead and post it
Eorl, Rohan Battleship laid down 1919 (Engine 1920)
Displacement:
33,000 t light; 34,913 t standard; 39,113 t normal; 42,473 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
745.00 ft / 745.00 ft x 103.00 ft x 31.50 ft (normal load)
227.08 m / 227.08 m x 31.39 m x 9.60 m
Armament:
14 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4 mounts), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1919 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (8x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1919 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (2x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1919 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1919 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread
24 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (12x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1919 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 20,138 lbs / 9,134 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 447.00 ft / 136.25 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 447.00 ft / 136.25 m 31.50 ft / 9.60 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 7.00" / 178 mm 13.0" / 330 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.50" / 13 mm -
5th: 0.33" / 8 mm - -
- Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 45,471 shp / 33,921 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 8,525nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,560 tons
Complement:
1,389 - 1,807
Cost:
£7.619 million / $30.476 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,517 tons, 6.4 %
Armour: 12,880 tons, 32.9 %
- Belts: 4,074 tons, 10.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 781 tons, 2.0 %
- Armament: 3,802 tons, 9.7 %
- Armour Deck: 4,024 tons, 10.3 %
- Conning Tower: 199 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 1,590 tons, 4.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,513 tons, 39.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,113 tons, 15.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.3 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
56,255 lbs / 25,517 Kg = 41.0 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 9.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 6.2 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 17.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.71
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.26
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.566
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.23 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.29 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 37 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Stern: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Average freeboard: 19.48 ft / 5.94 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.7 %
Waterplane Area: 54,380 Square feet or 5,052 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 208 lbs/sq ft or 1,017 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.20
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
quads and triples?
Quote from: Ithekro on March 17, 2010, 02:04:58 AM
quads and triples?
Yup 2 Triples SF over 2 Quads, like I said wierd ship kick.
The recoil on the first one is way too high...
Aye, the captain wants to feel each blast in his spine. Basically the first one can't fire all her guns on a broadside...at the same time anyway.
Quote from: Tanthalas on March 17, 2010, 12:24:54 AM
this is a WTF moment, I know its not legit but I seriously dont know what happend with Spring Sharp. Maddox sent me the Spring Sharp file for one of his BBs, after I fixed the keyboard issues I converted it to Standerd Mesure instead of Metric and Spring Sharp gave me this (I know you cant reproduce it on the listed light tonage but im staring at it on my Monitor)
How odd. The hull fairly similar to my Wesworld Ijelsijk class, except those are 3x2 15" and 23knots...and 20 years later. I agree there is some issue there.
as for
QuoteYup 2 Triples SF over 2 Quads, like I said wierd ship kick.
... I really like the look of twins over triples...not sure about triples over quads.
Kaiser Kirk, I never visited Wesworld, so I can't know that class you're talking about. I just labored on the original TAN has mangled a tad further, as my design was a few 100 tons heavier.
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on March 17, 2010, 12:17:39 PM
Quote from: Tanthalas on March 17, 2010, 12:24:54 AM
as for QuoteYup 2 Triples SF over 2 Quads, like I said wierd ship kick.
... I really like the look of twins over triples...not sure about triples over quads.
I like twons over triples to, and im quite sure that triples over quads would be ugly... if I were to draw it I would even use a Quean Anns Tower style Super Structure to acentuate its ugliness. Rohan dosnt even have a quad 14" but I thought it was an interesting idea so I went ahead and posted it (twin 15.5" ofer triple 15.5" will fit on the same hull)
Of course then there is the twins over triples over quads idea (a superimposed twin over a superimposed triple mount.)
Quote from: Ithekro on March 17, 2010, 01:26:10 PM
Of course then there is the twins over triples over quads idea (a superimposed twin over a superimposed triple mount.)
ACK Pagoda.... now that would be Ugly (not to mention a tad top heavy)
Slightly less than three triples forward.
*OOC Serious Ship warning* Having given much consideration to and spent large ammounts of capital on researching aviation and its potential uses to the fleet Rohan is proud to present Sting V.R. Aviation Cruiser of the Mark.
Sting, Rohan Aviation Cruiser laid down 1919 (Engine 1920)
Displacement:
7,700 t light; 7,973 t standard; 10,053 t normal; 11,717 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 68.00 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
169.77 m / 169.77 m x 20.73 m x 6.71 m
Armament:
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1919 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 864 lbs / 392 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 97,344 shp / 72,618 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 8,525nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,743 tons
Complement:
501 - 652
Cost:
£1.826 million / $7.302 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 108 tons, 1.1 %
Armour: 47 tons, 0.5 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 47 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 3,404 tons, 33.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,863 tons, 38.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,353 tons, 23.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 279 tons, 2.8 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9,126 lbs / 4,139 Kg = 84.5 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 14.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 94 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.25
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.16
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.422
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.19 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 81
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Mid (50 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Quarterdeck (10 %): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m (22.00 ft / 6.71 m before break)
- Stern: 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 21.20 ft / 6.46 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 121.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154.6 %
Waterplane Area: 23,651 Square feet or 2,197 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 126 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 502 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.87
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
279 tons Misc. Weight
100 tons FC
48 tons torpedos
25 tons Radar
25 tons Wireless
25 tons Seaplane
25 tons Crew Comfort
8 tons Combat Information Center
3 tons Comanders Quarters
Just as long as it's only one plane...
Quote from: TexanCowboy on March 21, 2010, 08:30:33 PM
Just as long as it's only one plane...
Oh I could rearange the Misc. Weight and get 2 on it but IDK if they would fit.
What are this ships type's duties?
Quote from: Ithekro on March 21, 2010, 08:50:10 PM
What are this ships type's duties?
Scouting/Escort/Raider/Look Realy Freking Cool (it seriously would look AWSOME trust me)
Yes this ship will look seriously awsome .....
I have a ship I want almost exactly in its tonnage that will have to await 2 simple things.
1918: Black Powder Catapults for Float Planes...
and
1917: Historic 1918 Aircraft - Radios in Twin Engined Aircraft.
I will point out this is forcing me to build a twin engined aircraft with 2 engines driving 1 Propeller so I can have a Radio on a reasonably sized float plane. Which might be a little Rules Squirly as I belive the desire was for us to have to wait until the 1920 aircraft to have single engined float plane scouts on ships.
I have been considering if it would absolutly require the black powder catapults... Couldnt we launch a twin engine flying boat off the Ocean? One could be kept relativly small im fairly sure, it might not be as efficent but atleast hypotheticly it should be possible.
Sort of like the old fashion torpedo launchers...lower the torpedo into the water, then let it go....before the tubes were invented.
Quote from: Ithekro on March 21, 2010, 09:50:55 PM
Sort of like the old fashion torpedo launchers...lower the torpedo into the water, then let it go....before the tubes were invented.
Yeah but it would work wouldnt it? I dont know much about early naval aviation but I can see that working.
Quote from: Tanthalas on March 21, 2010, 10:23:23 PM
Quote from: Ithekro on March 21, 2010, 09:50:55 PM
Sort of like the old fashion torpedo launchers...lower the torpedo into the water, then let it go....before the tubes were invented.
Yeah but it would work wouldnt it? I dont know much about early naval aviation but I can see that working.
Yes you can build a Float Plane Tender, a Crane for loading the plane back on the deck can be used to land it on the water. However this requires relatively calm water to take off more so then when it lands. My Plan was litterally Scout Cruisers armed with light guns and several Catapults and 4 Aircraft roughly 100 to 200 Tons dedicated to Aircraft Operations. The Ability to launch the Aircraft while operating with the fleet and not having to stop to launch them and recover them was critical. A large Ship is also needed to create the Lee Area necessary for the recovery of the Aircraft in certain wave conditions.
im actualy working on a Drawing of it atm, IDK aobut fiting more than one plane with all the bloody torps I stuck on it LOL (im not even sure one will fit)
I would assume there are gravity catapults at this time. Not as fast as a black powder one, but with enough wieght could at least get the aircraft in motion to provide some lift and thrust verses just he engines, and to overcome a bit of the drag of the aircraft.
I'll assume this will be the smallest Aviation Vessel of the Mark...hence "Sting".
Quote from: Tanthalas on March 21, 2010, 08:19:04 PM
down 1919 (Engine 1920)
Is that allowed? I mean right now the rules says both "engine year 1920" and "engine year = year laid down". Shouldn't this be clarified?
Rohan was researching certain things when the Tech tree got adapted. This gave a bonus to some other research. Rohans player elected to boost the engine research with that bonus.
So it is possible to have engines that are bleeding edge, and early.
Quote from: Ithekro on March 21, 2010, 11:05:47 PM
I would assume there are gravity catapults at this time. Not as fast as a black powder one, but with enough wieght could at least get the aircraft in motion to provide some lift and thrust verses just he engines, and to overcome a bit of the drag of the aircraft.
I'll assume this will be the smallest Aviation Vessel of the Mark...hence "Sting".
Actualy Naming it Sting was just to keep it fresh in my mind that Aviation ships are named for weapons, Gravity and Possibly Hydraulic Catapults (unless I missed somthing in the tech rules) should both be hypotheticly possible
Tech tree:
Quote
Aircraft/Seaplane Carriers
1910: experimental aviation ships; automatically granted upon completion of the 1910 Aircraft (1914 models) tech.
1915: floatplanes; flying-off decks for wheeled aircraft
1918: gunpowder catapults for floatplanes; separate landing and taking-off decks for wheeled aircraft
1922: hydraulic catapults; full length decks for wheeled aircraft; arrestor wires
1926: armored box carrier
We don't expect hydraulic catapults until after gunpowder catapults. I didn't include gravity catapults (or flywheels) when drafting this, as I didn't know of any implementations of such that weren't purely experimental in nature.
Truthfully, for aircraft of our era, even floatplanes I'm not sure that a suitably sized ship would even need catapults. A flying off deck/trolly arrangement should get the job done. Catapults aren't going to start being needed until aircraft weight starts climbing later in the 20's.
As originaly invisond Project Sting has been Canceld, ill post the updated incarnation later.
No its not cancled the Italian Version of it simply delayed due to... *looks venimously at Rocky's Dice* technical difficulties ;)
Quote from: ctwaterman on March 22, 2010, 09:19:26 PM
No its not cancled the Italian Version of it simply delayed due to... *looks venimously at Rocky's Dice* technical difficulties ;)
LOL, Rohan also discoverd "technical difficulties" with the proposal (mostly I realised once I actualy thought about it that I could do somthing very similar on less tonage) :P
Quote from: Tanthalas on March 22, 2010, 09:22:26 PM
Quote from: ctwaterman on March 22, 2010, 09:19:26 PM
No its not cancled the Italian Version of it simply delayed due to... *looks venimously at Rocky's Dice* technical difficulties ;)
LOL, Rohan also discoverd "technical difficulties" with the proposal (mostly I realised once I actualy thought about it that I could do somthing very similar on less tonage) :P
Well the Fly wheel or Gravity Catapults just are not powerful enought to launch a radio equiped Scout Plane into the air. A small fast ship with a roll of deck might do the same but the Italian Design is going to look an awful lot like the US Omaha class Cruisers.
I mean honestly I really dont need an Aircraft Carrier in the Mediteranian right now especially with large numbers of Land Bases Heavy Bomber type Aircraft the Ca.36 and a few Hundred Twin Engined Float Planes or Flying Boats.
I honestly dont expect the Empire to build anything more then Float Plane Tenders in the near future.
ok Final version of CLX. Opinions welcome (but it will all fit)
CLX, Rohan Light Cruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1920)
Displacement:
6,000 t light; 6,260 t standard; 7,530 t normal; 8,546 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
557.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 55.00 ft x 20.00 ft (normal load)
169.77 m / 167.64 m x 16.76 m x 6.10 m
Armament:
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (6x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
2 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1917 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
4 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1917 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 1,306 lbs / 592 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 385.00 ft / 117.35 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.50" / 13 mm -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.50" / 13 mm -
- Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 54,673 shp / 40,786 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 6,135nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,286 tons
Complement:
403 - 525
Cost:
£1.118 million / $4.471 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 163 tons, 2.2 %
Armour: 921 tons, 12.2 %
- Belts: 473 tons, 6.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 72 tons, 1.0 %
- Armour Deck: 351 tons, 4.7 %
- Conning Tower: 25 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 1,912 tons, 25.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,816 tons, 37.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,530 tons, 20.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 188 tons, 2.5 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8,262 lbs / 3,748 Kg = 76.5 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 14.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.436
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19.30 degrees
Stern overhang: -4.50 ft / -1.37 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Mid (51 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (10 %): 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Stern: 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Average freeboard: 16.08 ft / 4.90 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140.1 %
Waterplane Area: 19,077 Square feet or 1,772 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 92 lbs/sq ft or 449 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.26
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
188 tons Misc. Weight
100 tons FC
25 tons Radar
25 tons Marconi
12 tons Crew Comfort
25 tons Flying Boat X1
1 tons Capitans Quarters
So an actual Light Cruiser rather that a Belted Cruiser (belt mainly, but also deck, but not heavy like an armored cruiser) or Protected Cruiser (deck only).
Are there defined terms of "light" and "heavy" cruiser in Navalism? I forget if that has come up yet.
I assume the Aviation Vessel will be something else.
There is no real nomenclatura for cruisers, one of the points of the Richmond agreement.
But, France has mainly protected cruisers left. But those are what we would call light cruisers in the days of the OTL Washington treaty. After the switch to oil, belt armor was placed to replace the lost protection.
I agree that's WT name, not Richmond...
But, all Guys understand this denomination & the category of the ship.
Don't use the French classement "second class cruiser" (SCC)
Nobody understand ???
(not the Player... :D :D :D)
Jef ;)
In all seriousness, I'd dump another 1k into it and use the weight to add more armor, especially the deck and mounts, then use the rest to up speed.
Quote from: Sachmle on March 23, 2010, 10:00:03 AM
In all seriousness, I'd dump another 1k into it and use the weight to add more armor, especially the deck and mounts, then use the rest to up speed.
Im just not sure 1K tons is worth it for 1 knot .5" deck, and 1" on each mount face. Especialy when that aditional 1K tons plays havoc with the seakeaping
Depends on her purpose. The original Belted Cruisers has about the same amount of armor, but after combat related problems (the destruction of said vessel to point blank range cruiser fire), it was decided to increase the belt armor to 5 inches rather than 3 inches (which wouldn't have saved the original vessel as she was used in a line action she shouldn't have been in, and at a ridiculously close range to boot.). However that was for the 7.5 inch armed cruisers. This seems to be a lighter version of that concept, with the long range that goes with it for ocean patrols, fleet scouting, or anti-piracy sort of things.
The Role I had envisiond for them was Anti TB/DD Escort, Patrol, and Fleet Scout. Traditionaly (atleast from what I know/can gather) Rohan has never had the fastest ships in the race, or in alot of cases even the best armored. What they have always had however was the most guns, and considering these layed down in 1917 and for 6K tons I got a VERY well armed, Reasonably fast (for Rohan), Long range Cruiser. I term these ships as Light Cruisers, but realy for Rohan they will be called Belted Cruisers. CLX was just a working name so I could remember which ship I was working on (there are actualy CLX Flight 1 - Flight 8 on my PC atm)
More for fun than anything, its a Huh ship based of the Russian 1950s Proposed BCs
CBX, Rohan Battle Cruiser laid down 1919 (Engine 1920)
Displacement:
34,000 t light; 35,435 t standard; 40,223 t normal; 44,054 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
898.00 ft / 892.00 ft x 105.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
273.71 m / 271.88 m x 32.00 m x 9.14 m
Armament:
9 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x3 guns), 926.00lbs / 420.03kg shells, 1919 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (2x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1919 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (8x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1919 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 9,245 lbs / 4,194 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 535.00 ft / 163.07 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 357.00 ft / 108.81 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Upper: 2.00" / 51 mm 535.00 ft / 163.07 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 535.00 ft / 163.07 m 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 3.00" / 76 mm
3rd: 3.00" / 76 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 3.00" / 76 mm
- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 175,069 shp / 130,602 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 8,525nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 8,619 tons
Complement:
1,419 - 1,846
Cost:
£6.456 million / $25.825 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,086 tons, 2.7 %
Armour: 11,054 tons, 27.5 %
- Belts: 4,668 tons, 11.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 891 tons, 2.2 %
- Armament: 1,775 tons, 4.4 %
- Armour Deck: 3,467 tons, 8.6 %
- Conning Tower: 253 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 6,121 tons, 15.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,239 tons, 37.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,223 tons, 15.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.2 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
60,197 lbs / 27,305 Kg = 69.7 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 8.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 7.5 ft / 2.3 m
Roll period: 16.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.30
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.501
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -6.00 ft / -1.83 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 34.00 ft / 10.36 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 32.00 ft / 9.75 m (22.00 ft / 6.71 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Stern: 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Average freeboard: 24.36 ft / 7.42 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 184.5 %
Waterplane Area: 62,462 Square feet or 5,803 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 172 lbs/sq ft or 840 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.00
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Waste of tonnage. Why build that when the Wheelers could do the same job cheaper.
Quote from: TexanCowboy on March 29, 2010, 03:35:56 PM
Waste of tonnage. Why build that when the Wheelers could do the same job cheaper.
Who said anything about building it, and IMHO it would eat whealers 2 at a time.but I do agree on the it would be a waste of Tonage part, if im spending anywhere colse to 35K im just going to build another Asfaloth (or Eorl)
It may eat Wheeler's two at a time, but with that speed, it would be meant for scouting. A Wheeler can always run.
14" guns rather than 12" and we'll see who eats who on the tonnage.
Quote from: Ithekro on March 29, 2010, 03:58:08 PM
14" guns rather than 12" and we'll see who eats who on the tonnage.
LOL agreed, but I was sticking to the basic Russian idea. if I were to build a ship that large/fast it would almost have to have 14" guns minimum (realy I would want to find a way to slip 15.5s on it but that is HARD)
After much internal debate the folowing ship has been proposed to the Naval High Command of the Mark. It is tentitivly scheduled for a January 1 1919 laydown.
Eorl V.R. BB-20, Rohan Battleship laid down 1919 (Engine 1920)
Displacement:
33,000 t light; 34,774 t standard; 36,780 t normal; 38,385 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
673.00 ft / 664.00 ft x 108.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
205.13 m / 202.39 m x 32.92 m x 9.14 m
Armament:
9 - 15.50" / 394 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,951.00lbs / 884.96kg shells, 1919 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (2x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1919 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (8x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1919 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1919 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
12 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1919 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 18,486 lbs / 8,385 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 400.00 ft / 121.92 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 264.00 ft / 80.47 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Upper: 13.0" / 330 mm 398.40 ft / 121.43 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 93 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined 19 deg. all armor +1 (imp. KC)
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 400.00 ft / 121.92 m 28.31 ft / 8.63 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 8.00" / 203 mm 13.0" / 330 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
3rd: 4.00" / 102 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
4th: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
5th: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.50" / 13 mm -
- Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 46,084 shp / 34,378 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 8,525nm at 13.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,610 tons
Complement:
1,327 - 1,726
Cost:
£7.064 million / $28.254 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,211 tons, 6.0 %
Armour: 14,051 tons, 38.2 %
- Belts: 6,208 tons, 16.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 628 tons, 1.7 %
- Armament: 3,029 tons, 8.2 %
- Armour Deck: 3,875 tons, 10.5 %
- Conning Tower: 310 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 1,611 tons, 4.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 14,627 tons, 39.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,780 tons, 10.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.4 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
57,053 lbs / 25,879 Kg = 30.6 x 15.5 " / 394 mm shells or 9.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 6.7 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 17.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.44
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.598
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.15 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.77 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 16.44 degrees
Stern overhang: -6.00 ft / -1.83 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.50 ft / 9.30 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Stern: 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Average freeboard: 21.31 ft / 6.50 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.2 %
Waterplane Area: 52,369 Square feet or 4,865 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 208 lbs/sq ft or 1,016 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.54
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
500 tons Misc. Weight
250 tons 1918 FC
50 tons Flag Facilities
50 tons Crew Comfort (Heating, Cooling, Aditional Coffee Pots)
25 tons Long Range Wireless
25 tons Improved Huelsmyer type Radar
25 tons Single Flying Boat and Facilities
125 tons Reserved
15.5" would bring the number of guns down to six, I think. Maybe one or two more if you get creative with the number of turrets (say two quad turrets, or two twins and a triple, or two triples and a twin), but that 35,000 ton light limits you in that area. My older designs tended to favor firepower to speed and thus could get 8 or 9 large guns on a hull, but it could only go maybe 28 knots with effective armor.
I was generally keeping the Battlecruisers one gun size below the battleships, so with the new 15.5" battleships, one would produce 14" guns battlecruisers. By that logic at least. Since the size restriction will probably make going to 17" impractical, 15.5" and 14" gunned captial ships will be the way to go until one can get the weights down enough to outfit a treaty battleship with enough 17" guns to make her worthwhile.
Or produce super-heavy 15.5" shells....that is what Rohan did in 1898 with the 12" verse the Anahuac 13"...make the 12" superior quality with heavier shells to defeat the slightly larger guns. They might not have the range, or quite as much penerating power, but they'll have a larger explosive power and penetration ability to an equal diameter shell...enough to make it a 13" equivalent...on paper. Change this to the 15.5" and you'll have a shell that can equal a 16" shell easily, and perhaps even nearly match a standard 17" shell....again, on paper.
actualy you can do 6X15.5 30+ knots on 27,300 tons in 3 twins. I would think on 35K I could proly get 8+ guns to 30+ knots. I just dont see a reason for it personaly (and outside the 3 Asfaloth type ships I intend to keep the BCs one gun size smaller than the BBs)
You can put 1912 Fire Control on her but 1918 Fire Control lets see the first roles would come around in 1920 HY1.
And since we have to have the tech when the ship is laid down... Painful its delayed my newest BB from laying down for over a year. But were supposed to have them.
Quote from: ctwaterman on March 29, 2010, 11:53:25 PM
You can put 1912 Fire Control on her but 1918 Fire Control lets see the first roles would come around in 1920 HY1.
And since we have to have the tech when the ship is laid down... Painful its delayed my newest BB from laying down for over a year. But were supposed to have them.
1912 then, it was just suposed to be whatever the newest one at that point was. I thought it was 1918 for some reason (not exactly sure why either Proly cause im working on the 1918 one and I was doing HY reports before I got the wild hair to sim that ship)
Wouldn't be the first time Rohan delayed construction to refit a building ship on the slips for new Fire Control technology.
Hey My Newest BB only like 6 Months in Active Duty just went in for a Fire Control Upgrade, new paint on her bottom and more polish on the Brass.
I understand Completely.
Charles
I am bumping this up so I can find it easier for when I have to write up thing from 1916-1919 as I will need to update the encyclopedia section with a lot of things from this thread while also seeing what direction I should go based on this in 1920.