I was thinking about what a Tillman, or, in this timeline, a Timbre destroyer would be like. So I simmed this:
Destructivo, Glourious France Super-Destroyer, laid down 1917
Displacement:
8,353 t light; 9,042 t standard; 10,584 t normal; 11,817 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
667.10 ft / 665.00 ft x 60.00 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
203.33 m / 202.69 m x 18.29 m x 6.71 m
Armament:
4 - 7.00" / 178 mm guns in single mounts, 171.50lbs / 77.79kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
20 - 7.00" / 178 mm guns in single mounts, 171.50lbs / 77.79kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
40 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 21.44lbs / 9.72kg shells, 1917 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
12 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1917 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
50 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1917 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 4,983 lbs / 2,260 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
40 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes, 10 - 20.0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
- Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 139,160 shp / 103,813 Kw = 36.80 kts
Range 8,100nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,775 tons
Complement:
521 - 678
Cost:
£2.781 million / $11.125 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 623 tons, 5.9 %
Armour: 306 tons, 2.9 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 202 tons, 1.9 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 104 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 5,101 tons, 48.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,159 tons, 20.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,231 tons, 21.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 164 tons, 1.5 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,450 lbs / 658 Kg = 8.5 x 7.0 " / 178 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.76
Metacentric height 5.9 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 10.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.31
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.422
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.08 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.79 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Mid (50 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Stern: 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 16.64 ft / 5.07 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 225.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 54.4 %
Waterplane Area: 24,910 Square feet or 2,314 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 68 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 54 lbs/sq ft or 266 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 0.59
- Overall: 0.50
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is extremely poor
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
100 tons for torpedos
25 tons for fire control
34 tons for a reserve, or a second fire control.
Something new for Glourious France to build. :)
Tiny problem, not even Glorious France can deny the laws of nature.
Best Glorious France can do is a 1500 ton DD, thanks to the generous New Swiss.
Thats not nature. :). Still, you have to admit this would be fun. Maybe you could make a exception to build the escorts for the Masque? :D
Nope, Masque will get Demarce IV (http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=1408.msg36371#msg36371) cruisers in the role as DD's
Your links busted, and come on, or else Japan will build them.
Mommy!!! I want one!
beside the fact that we don't have a DD tech that covers ships over 8,000 tons light, my biggest issue with this ship is:
Not Enough Deck Space
You can't say that :). Its Borys's line :D
*twitch*
*twitch twitch*
7" guns...on a 8,000 ton ship...
*drools*
*starts planning cruisers*
8000 tons +, to be sunk with 1 hit in a 7" magazine. And there are a shitload of those, 24 to be exact
Nah, waste of money.
Remove the 20 7" guns on the side, and replace with a 12" twin turret amidships. Armor that against 8" guns.
This is actually legal (or will be), and something NS will build. Pity the speed is so slow.
New Switzerland Light Cruiser laid down 1920
Displacement:
1,948 t light; 2,048 t standard; 2,622 t normal; 3,082 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
400.00 ft / 400.00 ft x 37.00 ft x 15.90 ft (normal load)
121.92 m / 121.92 m x 11.28 m x 4.85 m
Armament:
5 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority aft
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1920 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 556 lbs / 252 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.00" / 25 mm 50.00 ft / 15.24 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 19 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
- Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 1.00" / 25 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 31,494 shp / 23,494 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 9,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,034 tons
Complement:
183 - 238
Cost:
£0.639 million / $2.556 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 69 tons, 2.6 %
Armour: 229 tons, 8.7 %
- Belts: 32 tons, 1.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 26 tons, 1.0 %
- Armour Deck: 168 tons, 6.4 %
- Conning Tower: 4 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 1,027 tons, 39.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 572 tons, 21.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 674 tons, 25.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 1.9 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
759 lbs / 344 Kg = 7.0 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 11.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.390
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.81 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Mid (50 %): 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Stern: 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Average freeboard: 12.50 ft / 3.81 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 149.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 85.4 %
Waterplane Area: 9,063 Square feet or 842 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 86 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 175 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.49
- Longitudinal: 0.86
- Overall: 0.52
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
I definitely agree, NEDS! Also way too much CT armor and not nearly enough for hull/magazine protection. BTW, is the Main Battery layout A/P/Q/Y?
The other problem is I don't think you can use DD FC on this. I really think you'll have to use the 100 ton cruiser FC if not the 250 ton FC that AC's are required to use.
Other than that a _very_ scary design!
This is an explosion waiting to be set off.
Edit: I refer to the original submission, not Foxy's reasonable-in-comparison design further down.
Maybe change the name is misleading - make a great destroyer leader - that is intention isn't it?
And I don't see any problem with NEDS - gun layout looks like A (B) Q (X) Y - ?? - like the French Contre -Torpilleurs
Speed is also fine - they have good endurance - just as important to maintain 25+ knots , most small DDs have trouble making max speed in anything except calm conditions
On the 'armour' - maybe just have splinter protection around the Mags - sufficient for a DL
Overall - I like 'em ;D - but not vs Cruisers - that would be silly ....
Quote from: Desertfox on September 08, 2009, 01:03:55 AM
New Switzerland Light Cruiser laid down 1920
Armament:
5 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority aft
Curious as to what the layout is...