A new member / previous lurker - going by the name Valjean - has expressed an interest in the DKB.
Khymerion, DKB's most recent player, has been grappling with a change in job but speculated that he might be able to play as of February.
I would like the board's views - here or via PM as you see fit - on whether to implement "new management" for DKB, and if so, to what degree - if any - we should require Khymerion's work to be retained.
Ahoj!
1 - Let us save Khymerion's work with the DKB as it is ATM, for possible retrival later, if come February:
- Valjean dropped out;
- Khymerion clambers aboard again;
2 - Valjean - wellcome aboard! - can take over at whatever point he (she?) wishes;
3 - worry about anything else in Ferbruary;
Borys, who has seen quite a few comings and goings of players ...
I feel torn here. I'm the one who talked Khy into coming back and would feel bad about him coming back after work settles and having to learn a 3rd country. However, the game must continue and we can't wait on everyone forever. But, you never dangled NUS while I was away w/ RL so yanking DKB from Khy under similar circumstances (albeit a longer down time) seems harsh. Decisions, decisions. I believe that w/ the current situation in the Africa area a active DKB would be a big plus. We could hear their view on things and see what, if any, reaction they have to it. However, there are other options for a player country, namely Ukraine (which I think is a good 'starter' country) and UNK (which is a little more involved for a newbie) We also haven't hear from Eugenius (AGAIN) for a while nor Viritus Unitas w/ Bharat. Korpen has done a wonderful job bringing Firanji back to life and it would be an interesting country to see come alive, if only as a foil to NS and another voice in the S Pacific. I guess I'm basically all for having a new player, and whatever country he decides and is approved is OK w/ me. I've actually already talked to Valjean for almost an hour last night on MSN. He seems very intelligent and I think once he gets a grip on the political and rules aspects he's gonna be fine. Of course we must see his SS skills first as well. Can't have another Olekit now can we? ;D
That depends on whether he's a friend or a foe, doesn't it?
Friend or foe..don't need that kind of screw up. Too many headaches and I think Blooded would kill us all w/ his bare hands if we let someone screw up a nation that bad again.
I'd suggest Valjean should try a smaller country first. Comes February, if Khymerion is still flooded with work he should take over DKB. That would also allow to shape up some NPCs.
Possible unclaimed small nations with some shipbuilding capabilities are: Ottomans, Persia, Mughal, Mesoamerica, Siam, and Firanj - in the latter case, perhaps rolling back Korpen's report by a few years.
I have to admit that P3D's idea has merit.
But on the other hand, Khymerion had the opportunity, and has the opportunity to express his wish here. As well as Valjean, it's not af this part of the site isn't accessible.
We have seen a lot of starters that did have a lack of batteriepower to get the engine turning, and we have learned to live with it and even adapt to the fact.
We could ask Swamphen to get back. I am not a mod anymore if that would've be in the way.
I did not think that was a factor in his departure - he seemed to simply tire of sims in general. However, if somebody has his contact info, feel free to send him a note.
Last communication I got from Swamphen is that he felt like having a burn out.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on December 02, 2008, 11:34:30 AM
I did not think that was a factor in his departure - he seemed to simply tire of sims in general. However, if somebody has his contact info, feel free to send him a note.
That would ROCK!!!!... But even his www.swamphen.com site is no more...I fear he may be lost forever.
Quote from: maddox on December 02, 2008, 11:29:09 AM
We have seen a lot of starters that did have a lack of batteriepower to get the engine turning, and we have learned to live with it and even adapt to the fact.
This is a reason why I think it is a good idea to try and keep NPC country fairly updated. As a new player coming in and having to do a backlog of 5-10 years worth of reports is quite daunting and not all that much fun, as You if any should appreciate. So I think it would be a good idea to try and keep most NPC countries not more then a year or two behind the game "now", both to make it easier to get into the game, and to avoid the "were the hell did all those ships on my border come from" scenario.
Swamphen's old graphics here are all hosted by http://www.swamphen.net/, which is still there.
Korpen, I tend to agree, but the disadvantage is that it saps a lot of potential creativity from a prospecting new player.
On the other hand, we could work a way around it,
Maybe restricting the NPC reports to pure economics and the amount of ships and what tonnage/amount and modernity of corps of them according to the capacity of the NPC.
Quote from: P3D on December 02, 2008, 11:19:42 AM
That would also allow to shape up some NPCs.
Possible unclaimed small nations with some shipbuilding capabilities are: Ottomans, Persia, Mughal, Mesoamerica, Siam, and Firanj - in the latter case, perhaps rolling back Korpen's report by a few years.
I think that Korpen has the right idea. The NPC should be brought a little more up to date. Granted that's time consuming, and we all already have nations to run. I'm not sure how to do it fairly, or correctly. But I think they should all be given at least SOME history and whatnot.
Korpen is doing Firenj as a volunteer, and as far as I know, without any nasty side effects on poor Firenj.
Miketr did do the Ottomans budgets, with nasty side effects in mind... ;)
I myself can't get into the beancounting part of the game very well. To my detriment.
Borys noticed.
Quote from: maddox on December 02, 2008, 11:49:47 AM
Korpen, I tend to agree, but the disadvantage is that it saps a lot of potential creativity from a prospecting new player.
I do not think that is significant. The less background job one has to do, the easier it is join the game and interact with the other players. And if someone comes with a really, really specific idea, well it is always possible redo stuff. But it thinks it will be easier to get a new player to stay, be interested, interact and learn the game if they do not HAVE to spend days just getting to the starting line.
Would say that it is almost more rule then exception that quite allot of error creeps into the first reports one make, and more one have to try and coordinate at once, the more likely it is that they will go unnoticed.
I don't think there is a need to start small. It ain't that complicated.
And I think it's a bit of a waste for Sachmle and Jeftge to run 2nd or 3rd rate PCs.
Borys
Quote from: Borys on December 02, 2008, 12:46:56 PM
I don't think there is a need to start small. It ain't that complicated.
And I think it's a bit of a waste for Sachmle and Jeftge to run 2nd or 3rd rate PCs.
Borys
Well, there's an idea. Either of you guys want to move up to a bigger PC? DKB or UNK, I think, being the first two on the list of those available.
Kaiser Kirk is also a candidate ...
Speaking of the turks... I should start doing their budgets again and the Greeks now that I have a little free time
Quote from: miketr on December 02, 2008, 01:03:09 PM
Speaking of the turks... I should start doing their budgets again and the Greeks now that I have a little free time
I think that would be great. :)
Quote from: Borys on December 02, 2008, 12:46:56 PM
I don't think there is a need to start small. It ain't that complicated.
And I think it's a bit of a waste for Sachmle and Jeftge to run 2nd or 3rd rate PCs.
Borys
Thanks for the vote of confidence in my skills as a player I take that as a very nice compliment, but I'm pretty happy. Besides, switching to the dark side of the force (UNK) would be hard to do with all the Southern Cross stuff stuck in my head. I'd be afraid I'd do something wrong based on info already in my head.
Think of all the ships you could design and BUILD with all that UNK or DKB steel ...
Borys
Quote from: Sachmle on December 02, 2008, 02:14:06 PM
Quote from: Borys on December 02, 2008, 12:46:56 PM
I don't think there is a need to start small. It ain't that complicated.
And I think it's a bit of a waste for Sachmle and Jeftge to run 2nd or 3rd rate PCs.
Borys
Thanks for the vote of confidence in my skills as a player I take that as a very nice compliment, but I'm pretty happy. Besides, switching to the dark side of the force (UNK) would be hard to do with all the Southern Cross stuff stuck in my head. I'd be afraid I'd do something wrong based on info already in my head.
then take DKB, Far enough out of the Southern Cross that it dosnt matter =P
*chuckles*... I might find the time to help by updating an NPC Nation, *shrugs* its got to be easier then France.
And I agree even only a few years of Italia backlog was daunting....
Charles.
PS: We have a player in hand who wants a country im sorry but its better then one in the bush.
well I had offerd to do Franji before Korpen started doing it... so I supose if someone wants to point me at another one I could do it.
Quote from: maddox on December 02, 2008, 11:49:47 AM
Korpen, I tend to agree, but the disadvantage is that it saps a lot of potential creativity from a prospecting new player.
I will quote this again. :)
On second thought I think it might in fact be a good idea to stifle new player creativity to some degree. Someone new often lacks much knowledge about the political relations surrounding the country the start with. This have in the past resulted in quite extreme changes in counties when they become active, and I do not think that is a good thing for anyone involoved.
Thanks Gentlemen,
Just a few confidences
Yes, I would like to have a country with more BP to built a better balanced fleet.
But, low BP constraint is good for the spirit.
Now , I could'nt forsake Peru. I have not more time for the Forum.
I hope to continue until the end.
I am frequently in difficulties to understand or write correct english.
But the most important for me are:
- Scratch BB Thuringen
- Defend Peru
& talk with my friends on the forums about...BIG GUNS :D
;)
I figure I would chime in here to let the board know me.
I am a avid sim/PBeM player, at the strategic level a lot of it was/is BattleTech, with some AD&D Birthright and some other random games. I have also been Co-Admin for some games.
I admit that I am having a tough time understanding the rules you all have set up, but am working to educate myself quickly. Thank you to the players that have already offered, and are, helping and I am sure I will be asking a lot of questions.
That being said I would understand if the players feel I should be in a different state to start. The reason I sent inquires about DBK is that it is a large part of the present story and a very active part of this world. To leave it dormant could cause more harm than good, since its acting as a counter weight to other nations is now slipping.
As I stated to the Moderators, I am willing to assist the game where ever there is a need to be filled.
I look forward to seeing you all in the game and hope to get set up soon.
Welcome aboard Valjean ;)
It's always difficult for a new player to understand & digest the rules.
After a few weeks, It 'll be better.
If I could help sometimes...
Jef ;)
Quote from: valjean on December 02, 2008, 05:31:35 PM
I figure I would chime in here to let the board know me.
I am a avid sim/PBeM player, at the strategic level a lot of it was/is BattleTech, with some AD&D Birthright and some other random games. I have also been Co-Admin for some games.
I admit that I am having a tough time understanding the rules you all have set up, but am working to educate myself quickly. Thank you to the players that have already offered, and are, helping and I am sure I will be asking a lot of questions.
That being said I would understand if the players feel I should be in a different state to start. The reason I sent inquires about DBK is that it is a large part of the present story and a very active part of this world. To leave it dormant could cause more harm than good, since its acting as a counter weight to other nations is now slipping.
As I stated to the Moderators, I am willing to assist the game where ever there is a need to be filled.
I look forward to seeing you all in the game and hope to get set up soon.
Welcome to the Sim, my advice would be initialy atleast take a smaller country (NUS maybee if I can convince Sam to take a larger one DKB I hope).
QuoteWelcome to the Sim, my advice would be initialy atleast take a smaller country (NUS maybee if I can convince Sam to take a larger one DKB I hope).
Ha, it all depends on personal taste really. I took Ireland at first and the 1 BP capacity was too hard to work with for me. Well, regardless, welcome aboard Valjean, I hope you enjoy your stay here.
I am an old hand at this and I STILL don't understand the rules! (thought I AM making progress...) :P
I have probably the smallest active nation in the planet, and I actually like it. It's a good challenge trying to build a sufficiently large fleet without any cash. I actually think smaller nations are more fun than say France were if you want a battleship, you don't ask, you just build it.
Quote from: Desertfox on December 02, 2008, 06:45:40 PM
I am an old hand at this and I STILL don't understand the rules! (thought I AM making progress...) :P
I have probably the smallest active nation in the planet, and I actually like it. It's a good challenge trying to build a sufficiently large fleet without any cash. I actually think smaller nations are more fun than say France were if you want a battleship, you don't ask, you just build it.
Get it right its France where you dont think, You just build 4 of them.
Hello,
I loved the Birthright Realm. Could never get a game group together though. That is actually from whence I derived my Moniker. From the term 'HighBlooded'.
I would love to see an active Ottoman (they are right in the middle of the scene :o -guaranteed action )or Ukraine (though I may do my best to dismantle the kingdom ;) ). The ottomans are up to 1912 with miketrs help. The Ukraine is up to 1914 with Eugenius and My assistance(though it could be backtracked easy enough).
Quote(though I AM making progress...)
Are you sure about that? ;) DF is N3s whipping boy. ;D
Progress in terms of understanding the rules.
Now progress in terms of changing my nickname has been and will continue to be nonexistant. ;D
I haven't done too shabbily. I have shattered the navies of three nations and bloodied five more, and I have yet to be decisively defeat, despite having fought five nations at once during the last round. Heck, I think that barring French involvement, I can actually win this war against Italy.
New Motto: Takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'... :)
Wellcome!
I fully agree with your assesment - the lack of players for global/regional powers like the UNK or DKB is bad for the game.
Borys
Quote from: Borys on December 03, 2008, 12:43:52 AM
Wellcome!
I fully agree with your assesment - the lack of players for global/regional powers like the UNK or DKB is bad for the game.
Borys
One problem solved. ;) All hail Kaiser Sachmle!!
No I don't understand. The thread started whether we could give Valjean the DKB even if it was reserved for Khymerion. Then what Sachmle is doing in Germanic livery?
A lot of PM's have gone over that last night.
Sachmle can have the DKB livery on following conditions.
1) If Valjean doesn't object vehemently
2) Swamphen has first dibs if he ever returns.
Me and Valjean worked out a deal. He takes over NUS so he can get his feet wet w/ a reasonable, but smaller nation, and DKB gets some stability.
And the whole thing is Borys' fault, it was his idea. :P
Congratulations for the promotion ;) ;) ;)
Farewell Allianza :'( :'( :'(
No farewell.. NUS will still be a PC and in the SC. Just w/ a new voice.
Ahoj!
All Hail Kaiser Sachmle and El Presidente for Life Valjean!
Borys
Um, Hail !
On other topics in the thread-
Borys- my name regarding larger countries- I have this vague idea the Bavarians will build combat ships at some point.
Blooded - Birthright - still have that game, only played the computer version
- Ukraine - Hmm, having an unstable nation on your borders bothers you too?
Korpen - I generally agree with his points
For my two cents-
In Wesworld I picked up the Netherlands and had to update 5 years, the encyclopedia wasn't updated, so I had search through old threads to find ships and plans, it was a substantial effort.
With Bavaria, there was a bit of a base courtesy of Borys, and its not that big, but still a long wind up period 1908-1913, and it took some work to get the country caught up. It would have been more difficult had I a fleet to worry about replacements and refits for.
I think like the suggestion of assigning tonnage for various classes, but leaving up to the eventual player. That way the rough balance of power can be tracked, even if the specifics are unknown. It also takes care of surprises possible in sudden updates. One thing I think should be addressed is the lack of tech trades unplayed countries have, placing them further and behind as the years go by.
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on December 08, 2008, 08:49:11 PM
I think like the suggestion of assigning tonnage for various classes, but leaving up to the eventual player. That way the rough balance of power can be tracked, even if the specifics are unknown.
Indeed that can work fairly well.
QuoteOne thing I think should be addressed is the lack of tech trades unplayed countries have, placing them further and behind as the years go by.
Something I have been toying with to suggest would be that techs with a start date more ten then years back could be researched for half-price or quarter price (or maybe instead of cheaper faster), as it is established and easy to get hold on documentation and people knowing the tech.
Would help smaller countries form falling to far behind.
I see merit in Korpen's idea for "common knowledge" technology.
Borys
Quote from: Borys on December 08, 2008, 10:54:35 PM
I see merit in Korpen's idea for "common knowledge" technology.
Borys
I see merit in it as well but the problem will be some people Italia included simply skipped several tech branches and this would help them as well.
Charles
With tech assistance you pay like 1/10th the price for the tech, and I'd say NPCs could be assumed to get some from friendly powers for free - esp. the older techs.
However, things like building a BB caliber gun or a larger battleship cannot really become public knowledge. So not all techs should belong to this category. However, I at least agree to that techs 20 years before current date should not be needed to develop the next one.
PCs (esp. larger ones) made their choice to neglect some areas, they should not get free techs.
I certainly agree they should not get free techs. The problem I noted is that countries not being updated do not have the option of making tech swaps when updating.
With Bavaria this was a mild problem and one reason I chose to invest in BP is for that 5th research capability. Still, I've had to turn down shipyard work simply because we were to technologically backward to build the ships. Now that Bavaria is active, I am correcting that problem through tech trades and exchanging materials for tech. Had that option been available for the 5 dead years, I expect she'd be even further along.
When I did a trial update of the Mughals it was more pronounced. There is no real friendly country for them, they have few research points, they haven't been updated since the beginning. They are far behind. For a Mughal player, the best bet is to focus on land tech and to buy warships from foreign yards...but thats not an option updating either, as those SIMs are done.
Overall, of the options suggested, the idea of making old tech- say 10 or 15+ years out of date, cheaper to research seems best. It reflects the spread of knowledge, but there is still time and effort involved in gaining the tech.
but thats my 2cents
edit : Another mechanism I thought of was to maintain the time and cost of research of antiquated techs, but give a substantial roll bonus- say +30%, so the likelyhood of getting it 'soon' is substantially increased.
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on December 10, 2008, 09:45:03 PM
edit : Another mechanism I thought of was to maintain the time and cost of research of antiquated techs, but give a substantial roll bonus- say +30%, so the likelyhood of getting it 'soon' is substantially increased.
I think that's a great idea. Maybe a roll bonus on a 10 year old tech, and nation gets the tech at the minimum roll on a 20 year old tech?
More simple. Get it after 2 years of research, no need for roll. Some techs might be excluded, though
Quote from: P3D on December 12, 2008, 09:51:35 AM
More simple. Get it after 2 years of research, no need for roll. Some techs might be excluded, though
That sounds good.... Maybe something like for every 5 years old a tech is there is a plus x% for chance to get something. Maybe 25%
Michael
Quote from: P3D on December 12, 2008, 09:51:35 AM
More simple. Get it after 2 years of research, no need for roll. Some techs might be excluded, though
I like the simplicity of this idea.
Borys