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Main Archive => Navalism 3 Armed Forces => Armed Forces => New Ship Designs => Topic started by: Tanthalas on November 01, 2008, 01:04:16 AM

Title: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 01, 2008, 01:04:16 AM
USNSS Avenger, USNS Cruiser laid down 1914 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   12,704 t light; 13,493 t standard; 15,166 t normal; 16,505 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   606.00 ft / 595.00 ft x 71.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
   184.71 m / 181.36 m x 21.64 m  x 8.23 m

Armament:
      6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x3 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (6x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     2 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
   Weight of broadside 5,696 lbs / 2,584 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   386.75 ft / 117.88 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   1.50" / 38 mm   208.23 ft / 63.47 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   1.50" / 38 mm   386.75 ft / 117.88 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.50" / 140 mm   2.75" / 70 mm      5.00" / 127 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 5.50" / 140 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 73,915 shp / 55,141 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,012 tons

Complement:
   683 - 888

Cost:
   £1.818 million / $7.271 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 712 tons, 4.7 %
   Armour: 2,834 tons, 18.7 %
      - Belts: 1,216 tons, 8.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 535 tons, 3.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,010 tons, 6.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 73 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 2,754 tons, 18.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,054 tons, 39.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,462 tons, 16.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 2.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16,003 lbs / 7,259 Kg = 18.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 64 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.75
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.465
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.38 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.39 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m (19.00 ft / 5.79 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   10.00 ft / 3.05 m (19.00 ft / 5.79 m before break)
      - Stern:      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.25 ft / 5.56 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,296 Square feet or 2,536 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 141 lbs/sq ft or 690 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.66
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

250 tons FC
  25 tons Wireless
  25 tons Flag Facilities
  50 tons Radar instilation
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: The Rock Doctor on November 01, 2008, 06:47:34 AM
I started developing 275mm guns because I was contemplating something rather similar.  I was even looking at the same name for a ship, since it'd be a Jamaican boat.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Jefgte on November 01, 2008, 07:58:13 AM
A Panzerschiff cousin  ;)

Engine 1916... That mean that Avenger 'll commissioning in 1918.


Jef  ;)
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 01, 2008, 12:01:34 PM
Quote from: Jefgte on November 01, 2008, 07:58:13 AM
A Panzerschiff cousin  ;)

Engine 1916... That mean that Avenger 'll commissioning in 1918.


Jef  ;)

the Pships were its insperation, although im not 100% sold on her just yet (id like 30 kts), Rock Avenger is just a working name (if I build em ill name em more along traditional cruiser type names aka city names)
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: P3D on November 01, 2008, 02:15:43 PM
You can design the same ship with 1912 engines.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 01, 2008, 02:42:14 PM
Quote from: P3D on November 01, 2008, 02:15:43 PM
You can design the same ship with 1912 engines.

I have and posted it previously, I intend to build one or the other.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: The Rock Doctor on November 01, 2008, 08:07:51 PM
QuoteRock Avenger is just a working name (if I build em ill name em more along traditional cruiser type names aka city names)

No worries - I just thought it was an interesting coincidence.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 01, 2008, 10:34:39 PM
1912 engine Version
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/Avenger-1-1.gif)


USNSS Avenger, USNS Cruiser laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   12,600 t light; 13,389 t standard; 15,760 t normal; 17,657 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   606.00 ft / 595.00 ft x 71.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
   184.71 m / 181.36 m x 21.64 m  x 8.23 m

Armament:
      6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x3 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (6x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1914 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      6 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1914 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 5,575 lbs / 2,529 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   386.00 ft / 117.65 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   1.50" / 38 mm   209.00 ft / 63.70 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   1.50" / 38 mm   386.00 ft / 117.65 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   1.50" / 38 mm      5.00" / 127 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 76,270 shp / 56,897 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 9,500nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,269 tons

Complement:
   703 - 914

Cost:
   £1.848 million / $7.393 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 697 tons, 4.4 %
   Armour: 2,457 tons, 15.6 %
      - Belts: 1,168 tons, 7.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 451 tons, 2.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 770 tons, 4.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 68 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 3,041 tons, 19.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,056 tons, 38.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,160 tons, 20.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 2.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16,155 lbs / 7,328 Kg = 18.7 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.78
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.11

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.484
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.38 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.39 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m (19.00 ft / 5.79 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m (19.00 ft / 5.79 m before break)
      - Stern:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.40 ft / 5.61 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 142.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,734 Square feet or 2,577 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 680 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.63
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

250 tons Fire Control
  50 tons Radar
  25 tons Wireless
  25 tons Flag Facilities
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: P3D on November 01, 2008, 10:50:01 PM
11' quarterdeck freeboard seems inadequate for the Pacific.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 02, 2008, 12:45:32 PM
Quote from: P3D on November 01, 2008, 10:50:01 PM
11' quarterdeck freeboard seems inadequate for the Pacific.

IDK It was more for aperance purposes than anything, I always have a lowerd Quarterdeck.  Not etha tit can be raised to a flush deck ship with no negitive effects.  anyone else think its to low? I may have to do a bit of research to see.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: P3D on November 02, 2008, 01:27:27 PM
Quote from: Tanthalas on November 02, 2008, 12:45:32 PM
IDK It was more for aperance purposes than anything, I always have a lowerd Quarterdeck.  Not etha tit can be raised to a flush deck ship with no negitive effects.  anyone else think its to low? I may have to do a bit of research to see.

IMO SS2 underestimates the freeboard needed for longer ships. Look at historical designs, freeboard was usually much higher than what SS2 deems sufficient for 'good seaboat' rating.
For destroyers it is the opposite.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 08, 2008, 10:20:53 PM
added a PIc of her (scale is 2 pix = 1 foot) I think Photobucket squished it though
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 11, 2008, 12:54:23 AM
since I mentiond them in the news here she is in all her glory NSS Monarch

USNSS Monarch, USNS Battle Cruiser laid down 1915 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   28,000 t light; 29,376 t standard; 32,217 t normal; 34,490 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   745.50 ft / 731.00 ft x 101.00 ft x 31.00 ft (normal load)
   227.23 m / 222.81 m x 30.78 m  x 9.45 m

Armament:
      9 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      20 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (10x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all aft
      10 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1915 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 12,995 lbs / 5,895 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   438.60 ft / 133.69 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   292.38 ft / 89.12 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   438.60 ft / 133.69 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.80" / 46 mm   438.60 ft / 133.69 m   27.28 ft / 8.31 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 85,181 shp / 63,545 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,114 tons

Complement:
   1,202 - 1,563

Cost:
   £4.056 million / $16.226 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,624 tons, 5.0 %
   Armour: 10,034 tons, 31.1 %
      - Belts: 5,376 tons, 16.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 797 tons, 2.5 %
      - Armament: 1,835 tons, 5.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,808 tons, 5.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 218 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 3,174 tons, 9.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,818 tons, 39.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,217 tons, 13.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     43,781 lbs / 19,859 Kg = 31.9 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 7.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 6.1 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 17.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.493
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.24 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 27.04 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (70 %):      21.00 ft / 6.40 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.22 ft / 5.86 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 48,866 Square feet or 4,540 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 189 lbs/sq ft or 923 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.25
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250 ton FC
25 Ton Wireless
25 Ton Flag Facilities
50 tons "Radar"
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Borys on November 11, 2008, 01:49:24 AM
I don't quite understand this part
Quote from: Tanthalas on November 11, 2008, 12:54:23 AM
Hull form characteristics:

   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (70 %):      21.00 ft / 6.40 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.22 ft / 5.86 m
Please explain deck shape to me ...

Quite nice ship, BTW.
Borys

Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Guinness on November 11, 2008, 07:39:08 AM
Also, which engine tech does NS have? Are you limited to 20,000 SHP?
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 11, 2008, 08:06:46 AM
Quote from: Borys on November 11, 2008, 01:49:24 AM
I don't quite understand this part
Quote from: Tanthalas on November 11, 2008, 12:54:23 AM
Hull form characteristics:

   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (70 %):      21.00 ft / 6.40 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.22 ft / 5.86 m
Please explain deck shape to me ...

Quite nice ship, BTW.
Borys



Easier to show than explain

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/hullform.gif)

Forcastle and Quarterdeck are used to determine main belt length (60% of hull in this case), mid determines what % of over all length is raised (70% in this case leaving 30% lowerd 20 % QD and 10% for a gun mount)

at the curent moment im limited to 20k per shaft this is a future ship though (ill be building on my curent pair till proly H115).  I just posted it since it was mentiond in my news.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Borys on November 11, 2008, 11:02:22 AM
OK - I figured it out - the f'castle is included in the "Mid" figure.
So, there are two abrupt steps there?

Borys
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 11, 2008, 11:29:44 AM
Quote from: Borys on November 11, 2008, 11:02:22 AM
OK - I figured it out - the f'castle is included in the "Mid" figure.
So, there are two abrupt steps there?

Borys

Basicly yes, it wont look quite so abrupt in the actual drawing (I use angles on all my breaks) but that was the best way I could come up with to sim the look I was after.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: The Rock Doctor on November 11, 2008, 12:48:29 PM
Is Monarch intentionally just too long for a type 3 slip?
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 11, 2008, 01:19:07 PM
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on November 11, 2008, 12:48:29 PM
Is Monarch intentionally just too long for a type 3 slip?

I keep playing with it it gets to long then it fits then its to long again, eventualy im rathe rsure ill end up fiting, just this incarnation dosnt quite fit ^.^
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 14, 2008, 05:12:16 PM
USNSS Inflexible class (Improved), USNS Battlecruiser laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   24,000 t light; 25,072 t standard; 27,985 t normal; 30,316 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   719.00 ft / 700.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   219.15 m / 213.36 m x 28.04 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      6 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      20 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (10x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
     2 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      4 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns (2x2 guns), 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      10 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 9,018 lbs / 4,091 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   8.00" / 203 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   26.10 ft / 7.96 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   5.00" / 127 mm   5.00" / 127 mm            -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 79,247 shp / 59,118 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,244 tons

Complement:
   1,081 - 1,406

Cost:
   £2.432 million / $9.728 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,127 tons, 4.0 %
   Armour: 8,927 tons, 31.9 %
      - Belts: 5,249 tons, 18.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 608 tons, 2.2 %
      - Armament: 1,210 tons, 4.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,662 tons, 5.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 199 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 3,160 tons, 11.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,361 tons, 37.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,985 tons, 14.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 425 tons, 1.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     41,097 lbs / 18,641 Kg = 30.0 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.27

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0.507
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.61 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30.86 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (70 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.78 ft / 6.03 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 162.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 44,913 Square feet or 4,173 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 165 lbs/sq ft or 804 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.39
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc. Weight: 425 tons
250 tons FC
  25 tons Wireless
  25 tons Flag Facilities
  25 tons Crew Comfort
  50 tons Radar instalation
  50 Tons Reserve
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 15, 2008, 11:22:10 AM
Next generation of NS Destroyers, Based loosely on the Sipans however having gaind 500 tons.  it uses the twin mount and hoist from the Inflexible class BBs for its main guns (I hope thats ok)

USNSS Guam, USNS Destroyer laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   1,500 t light; 1,559 t standard; 1,808 t normal; 2,007 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   363.00 ft / 363.00 ft x 31.00 ft x 14.00 ft (normal load)
   110.64 m / 110.64 m x 9.45 m  x 4.27 m

Armament:
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (4x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      6 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1915 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 263 lbs / 119 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 25,997 shp / 19,394 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 3,500nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 448 tons

Complement:
   138 - 180

Cost:
   £0.289 million / $1.155 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 33 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 23 tons, 1.3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 23 tons, 1.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 845 tons, 46.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 469 tons, 25.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 308 tons, 17.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 130 tons, 7.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     435 lbs / 197 Kg = 13.6 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 12.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.27

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.402
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.71 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.05 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.00 ft / 5.18 m (9.00 ft / 2.74 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.24 ft / 4.04 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 172.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 82.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,934 Square feet or 644 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 73 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 158 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.41
      - Overall: 0.56
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: P3D on November 15, 2008, 01:22:02 PM
Quote from: Tanthalas on November 15, 2008, 11:22:10 AM
Next generation of NS Destroyers, Based loosely on the Sipans however having gaind 500 tons.  it uses the twin mount and hoist from the Inflexible class BBs for its main guns (I hope thats ok)

USNSS Guam, USNS Destroyer laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   1,500 t light; 1,559 t standard; 1,808 t normal; 2,007 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   363.00 ft / 363.00 ft x 31.00 ft x 14.00 ft (normal load)
   110.64 m / 110.64 m x 9.45 m  x 4.27 m

Armament:
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (4x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      6 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1915 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 263 lbs / 119 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 25,997 shp / 19,394 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 3,500nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 448 tons

Complement:
   138 - 180

Cost:
   £0.289 million / $1.155 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 33 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 23 tons, 1.3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 23 tons, 1.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 845 tons, 46.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 469 tons, 25.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 308 tons, 17.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 130 tons, 7.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     435 lbs / 197 Kg = 13.6 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 12.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.27

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.402
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.71 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.05 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.00 ft / 5.18 m (9.00 ft / 2.74 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.24 ft / 4.04 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 172.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 82.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,934 Square feet or 644 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 73 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 158 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.41
      - Overall: 0.56
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


Slow imho.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: The Rock Doctor on November 15, 2008, 07:21:59 PM
Possibly so.  What's with all the miscellaneous weight - mines?
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 15, 2008, 09:34:54 PM
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on November 15, 2008, 07:21:59 PM
Possibly so.  What's with all the miscellaneous weight - mines?

was the plan, mines and torpedos
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Desertfox on November 15, 2008, 11:32:28 PM
These are more like Destroyer Leaders, right? If so I would suggest more speed and another twin mount. They have no business conducting torpedo attacks and laying mines

Desotroyers laying mines and conducting torpedo attacks have to be expendable, these are not.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: The Rock Doctor on November 16, 2008, 06:28:09 AM
More speed, yes.  More guns - no.  They're pushing the practical limit of armament as they are.

Tan, you should specify the mines and torpedo weight separately.  They won't be using a common storage device/system.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 17, 2008, 01:35:10 PM
USNSS Inflexible class (Mk 3), USNS Battlecruiser laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   24,000 t light; 25,063 t standard; 27,976 t normal; 30,306 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   719.00 ft / 700.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   219.15 m / 213.36 m x 28.04 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      6 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      20 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (10x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns (3x2 guns), 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      10 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 8,898 lbs / 4,036 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   26.10 ft / 7.96 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      3.00" / 76 mm
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 79,226 shp / 59,102 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,243 tons

Complement:
   1,081 - 1,406

Cost:
   £2.418 million / $9.672 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,112 tons, 4.0 %
   Armour: 8,821 tons, 31.5 %
      - Belts: 3,499 tons, 12.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 608 tons, 2.2 %
      - Armament: 1,192 tons, 4.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,323 tons, 11.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 199 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 3,159 tons, 11.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,408 tons, 37.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,976 tons, 14.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     42,031 lbs / 19,065 Kg = 30.6 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.27

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0.507
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.61 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30.86 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (70 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.78 ft / 6.03 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 162.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 44,906 Square feet or 4,172 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 165 lbs/sq ft or 808 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.39
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc. Weight: 425 tons
250 tons FC
  25 tons Wireless
  25 tons Flag Facilities
  25 tons Crew Comfort
  50 tons Radar instalation
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Walter on November 21, 2008, 05:10:23 AM
One question...
QuoteUSNSS Inflexible, USNS Battlecruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)
...

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
     and transom stern
QuoteUSNSS Inflexible class (Mk 3), USNS Battlecruiser laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)
...

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
     and transom stern
... since when are transom sterns allowed on Navalism ships?
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: maddox on November 21, 2008, 05:15:18 AM
Not yet, no.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: The Rock Doctor on November 21, 2008, 07:57:30 AM
That will need to be fixed, then.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 21, 2008, 08:48:32 AM
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on November 21, 2008, 07:57:30 AM
That will need to be fixed, then.
done (I realy wish someone had noticed that sooner, since I totaly missed it)

USNSS Inflexible (final fixed), USNS Battlecruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   23,800 t light; 24,872 t standard; 27,917 t normal; 30,353 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   719.00 ft / 700.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   219.15 m / 213.36 m x 28.04 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      6 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      20 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (10x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
     2 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      6 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns (4 mounts), 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 9,027 lbs / 4,094 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   280.00 ft / 85.34 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   26.10 ft / 7.96 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   5.00" / 127 mm   5.00" / 127 mm            -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 11.00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 78,996 shp / 58,931 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,482 tons

Complement:
   1,079 - 1,403

Cost:
   £2.424 million / $9.695 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,128 tons, 4.0 %
   Armour: 8,820 tons, 31.6 %
      - Belts: 5,173 tons, 18.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 608 tons, 2.2 %
      - Armament: 1,225 tons, 4.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,596 tons, 5.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 218 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 3,150 tons, 11.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,302 tons, 36.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,117 tons, 14.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     41,016 lbs / 18,604 Kg = 29.9 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.32

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.506
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.61 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.46 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (70 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.78 ft / 6.03 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 156.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 43,134 Square feet or 4,007 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 166 lbs/sq ft or 810 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.33
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc. Weight: 400 tons
250 tons FC
  25 tons Wireless
  25 tons Flag Facilities
  50 tons Radar instalation
  50 tons Reserve
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 21, 2008, 11:32:37 PM
Falling under the heading of build what you can now in suficiant numbers to be usefull.

Lion class, USNS Battlecruiser laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   25,000 t light; 26,244 t standard; 29,392 t normal; 31,910 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721.00 ft / 707.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   219.76 m / 215.49 m x 28.04 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3 mounts), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      20 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (10x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns (3x2 guns), 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      10 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1915 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 11,642 lbs / 5,281 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   431.00 ft / 131.37 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   431.00 ft / 131.37 m   27.08 ft / 8.25 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      3.00" / 76 mm
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 11.00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 76,177 shp / 56,828 Kw = 26.50 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,666 tons

Complement:
   1,122 - 1,459

Cost:
   £3.669 million / $14.677 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,455 tons, 5.0 %
   Armour: 8,654 tons, 29.4 %
      - Belts: 3,282 tons, 11.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 648 tons, 2.2 %
      - Armament: 2,032 tons, 6.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,466 tons, 8.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 226 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 3,037 tons, 10.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,454 tons, 39.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,392 tons, 14.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     39,918 lbs / 18,106 Kg = 29.1 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.71
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.33

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.527
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.68 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.59 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   26.00 ft / 7.92 m (22.00 ft / 6.71 m aft of break)
      - Mid (70 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (19 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.10 ft / 6.13 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 44,437 Square feet or 4,128 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 179 lbs/sq ft or 875 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.33
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc. Weight: 425 tons
250 tons FC
  25 tons Wireless
  25 tons Flag Facilities
  25 tons Crew Comfort
  50 tons Radar instalation
  25 Tons Reserve
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 24, 2008, 11:05:03 PM
after reading the arms limitation thread I was hit by a stroke of insperation.  As such I give you the folowing.

USNSS Inflexible (Quad), USNS Battlecruiser laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   24,000 t light; 25,222 t standard; 28,293 t normal; 30,750 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   719.00 ft / 700.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   219.15 m / 213.36 m x 28.04 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      20 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (10x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns (4 mounts), 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1915 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 11,643 lbs / 5,281 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   448.00 ft / 136.55 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   448.00 ft / 136.55 m   26.50 ft / 8.08 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 79,851 shp / 59,569 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,527 tons

Complement:
   1,089 - 1,417

Cost:
   £3.648 million / $14.593 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,455 tons, 5.1 %
   Armour: 7,920 tons, 28.0 %
      - Belts: 3,378 tons, 11.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 659 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armament: 1,273 tons, 4.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,409 tons, 8.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 200 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 3,184 tons, 11.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,041 tons, 39.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,293 tons, 15.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     36,749 lbs / 16,669 Kg = 26.8 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 5.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.33

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.513
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.61 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.46 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (70 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (16 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.78 ft / 6.03 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 43,404 Square feet or 4,032 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 177 lbs/sq ft or 864 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.41
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

ship has a 10 degree inclined belt (thanks for the catch P3D)

Misc. Weight: 400 tons
250 tons FC
  25 tons Wireless
  25 tons Flag Facilities
  25 tons Crew Comfort
  25 tons Reserved
  50 tons Radar instalation
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: P3D on November 24, 2008, 11:43:49 PM
You forgot to incline the belt.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 24, 2008, 11:47:18 PM
Quote from: P3D on November 24, 2008, 11:43:49 PM
You forgot to incline the belt.

fixed thanks for the catch
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 26, 2008, 09:24:38 PM
this made me kind of sit up and go wow... since I wont have the quads ready for the 1914 ships I thought id play around with what I could do just on AoN Opinions are welcome mostly im curious if yall think I should just repeat the Previous Rs or if I should build a pair of these in the intrem

USNSS Inflexible (Mk2 final), USNS Battlecruiser laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   24,000 t light; 25,076 t standard; 28,136 t normal; 30,584 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   719.00 ft / 700.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   219.15 m / 213.36 m x 28.04 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      6 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      20 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (10x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
     2 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      6 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns (4 mounts), 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 9,027 lbs / 4,094 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   26.10 ft / 7.96 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   5.00" / 127 mm   5.00" / 127 mm            -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 79,494 shp / 59,303 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,508 tons

Complement:
   1,086 - 1,412

Cost:
   £2.434 million / $9.738 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,128 tons, 4.0 %
   Armour: 9,005 tons, 32.0 %
      - Belts: 4,083 tons, 14.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 811 tons, 2.9 %
      - Armament: 1,449 tons, 5.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,403 tons, 8.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 259 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 3,170 tons, 11.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,297 tons, 36.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,136 tons, 14.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     41,858 lbs / 18,987 Kg = 30.5 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
   Metacentric height 5.9 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 15.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.36

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.510
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.61 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.46 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (70 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.78 ft / 6.03 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 43,291 Square feet or 4,022 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 165 lbs/sq ft or 807 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.36
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Main belt Inclined 10 Deg.

Misc. Weight: 400 tons
250 tons FC
  25 tons Wireless
  25 tons Flag Facilities
  25 tons Crew Comfort
  50 tons Radar instalation
  25 tons reserve
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Korpen on November 27, 2008, 02:23:13 PM
Undergunned and overarmoured I think. The secondary battery lacks punch against larger DDs and light cruisers, and the few guns in the main battery cannot do all that much to assist against smaller targets.

Edit:
I think she would be horribly vulnerable to enemy large DDs and light cruisers, as she do not have that efficient a battery against them With a large proportion of her waterline totally unprotected; she can be mission killed by a large number of light (10-15cm) HE shells striking outside her citadel, causing flooding
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 29, 2008, 06:49:43 PM
USNSS Revenge, USNS Fast Battleship laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   30,000 t light; 31,471 t standard; 34,893 t normal; 37,631 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   720.00 ft / 707.00 ft x 107.00 ft x 35.00 ft (normal load)
   219.46 m / 215.49 m x 32.61 m  x 10.67 m

Armament:
      9 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      20 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (10x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1917 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns (3x2 guns), 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all aft, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns (2x2 guns), 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all forward
      20 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1917 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 13,642 lbs / 6,188 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   425.00 ft / 129.54 m   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.80" / 46 mm   425.00 ft / 129.54 m   30.63 ft / 9.34 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   5th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 103,548 shp / 77,246 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 6,160 tons

Complement:
   1,276 - 1,659

Cost:
   £5.496 million / $21.982 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,705 tons, 4.9 %
   Armour: 10,080 tons, 28.9 %
      - Belts: 4,029 tons, 11.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 867 tons, 2.5 %
      - Armament: 2,205 tons, 6.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,703 tons, 7.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 276 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 3,858 tons, 11.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,856 tons, 39.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,893 tons, 14.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     46,336 lbs / 21,018 Kg = 33.8 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 7.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 6.6 ft / 2.0 m
   Roll period: 17.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.461
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.61 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.59 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m (26.00 ft / 7.92 m aft of break)
      - Mid (70 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.92 ft / 6.38 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 162.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 48,708 Square feet or 4,525 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 200 lbs/sq ft or 976 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.69
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Main belt inclined at 10 deg.

500 tons Misc Weight
250 tons FC
  50 tons Radar
  25 tons Wireless
  25 tons Crew Comfort Items
100 tons Flag Facilities
  50 tons Reserve

could be layed down sooner if I could find a source for the turbines
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: P3D on November 30, 2008, 12:27:01 AM
Too deep draught (35'  ??? :o ), too wide beam, to low block coefficient.
Quarterdeck could be higher. I don't understand armor scheme. If belt reaches quarterdeck, it only extends to 4' below WL. If it extends to the next deck, 12' underwater armor is excessive.

Main Belt and deck protection is OK (against ships with 14" guns or smaller), but gun protection (10" barbettes, 13" face) is marginal.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 30, 2008, 01:42:38 AM
Too deep draught (35'  ??? :o )
I was baseing her off the SoDaks (the ones that were actualy built) and that was what my referance materials said they drew

too wide beam
Same as above (Even I felt she was a tad on the fat side)

to low block coefficient
Direct result of the Draught, and my restriction that the ship not be over 30K tons

Quarterdeck could be higher
I know this is a runing debate LOL so Ill just stay away from it

I don't understand armor scheme. If belt reaches quarterdeck, it only extends to 4' below WL. If it extends to the next deck, 12' underwater armor is excessive.
Just me being a Nubcake (I was thinking it would basicly extend 1' further up and down than my normal 16' belt(Partialy done to compensate for the sloped belt)

Main Belt and deck protection is OK (against ships with 14" guns or smaller), but gun protection (10" barbettes, 13" face) is marginal.
See I would have thought that since most historical ships matched Face armor with Main belt (or realy close to it anyway) that I was going the overkill rout, and several historic ships had even lighter barbetes than Im using on this ship. 

Oh well chalk it up to im a Noob lol back to the drawing board she goes
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Borys on November 30, 2008, 01:48:42 AM
The USN Treaty battleshiops are a bit of an oddball design. In terms of naval architecture, that is.
Hence short, fat and deeply set.

Turret faces usually are 1" or 2" thicker than the belt. That's because they face the enemy, with perpendicular hits being expected. While you can manouvre the ship and fight at "angles" to the enemy, thus avoiding perpendicular hits on the belt.
With barbettes it's a funny matter - they are round - thus everything depends on how lucky - or unlucky - you are. For "smack on" hits - then the barbette should be as thick as the face. If hits are at "the rounded parts" - then much thinner  armour is enough, as again we have "sloped armour".
Borys
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 30, 2008, 01:58:47 AM
Thanks for that Explination Borys, it clears up some things I had wonderd about in the past.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: P3D on November 30, 2008, 01:59:13 AM
35' draught might not be a good idea if you are planning to use the ship around islands. SoDak had extremely deep draught due to having to fit in the Panama canal - beam 108', had to be short to economize on tonnage, so it also had deep draught - with a high BC.

13" turret face would be OK if your belt would've been vertical, but it is inclined, offering more protection - so face should be 14" and barbette 13".

You might check Friedman on the different US fast BC designs pre-NC.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 30, 2008, 02:04:06 AM
Quote from: P3D on November 30, 2008, 01:59:13 AM
35' draught might not be a good idea if you are planning to use the ship around islands. SoDak had extremely deep draught due to having to fit in the Panama canal - beam 108', had to be short to economize on tonnage, so it also had deep draught - with a high BC.

13" turret face would be OK if your belt would've been vertical, but it is inclined, offering more protection - so face should be 14" and barbette 13".

You might check Friedman on the different US fast BC designs pre-NC.

... I mostly depend on online sources for information (I have never even seen a copy of Friedman although I know its conciderd somthing of a Naval Bible) gona have to see if the local Library has a copy I supose (or find one to pirate online ^.^)
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: P3D on November 30, 2008, 02:18:55 AM
It's mostly online for me, too, and libraries - but I bought Friedman BBs and cruisers. You could get a copy for 40 bucks.

http://www.dealoz.com/prod.pl?cat=book&op=buy&lang=en-us&search_country=us&cur=usd&sort=total_cost:asc&shipping_pref=cost&data_id=1138930

You should be able to get it via interlibrary loan if the local one does not have it.

edit: you might get it cheaper after christmas.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on November 30, 2008, 02:20:50 AM
well im not afraid to just go buy the thing (if I know what to buy remember im a ground pounder aka bullet catcher by training)
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Guinness on November 30, 2008, 07:07:22 AM
Friedman's Battleships is in print right now:

http://www.amazon.com/U-S-Battleships-Illustrated-Design-History/dp/0870217151/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228054014&sr=8-1

I bought cruisers used recently, it was less cheap.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on December 01, 2008, 06:11:09 PM
USNSS Revenge (final), USNS Battlecruiser laid down 1916

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/Revenge.gif) (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/Revenge.gif)

Displacement:
   26,472 t light; 27,840 t standard; 30,590 t normal; 32,790 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721.00 ft / 707.00 ft x 98.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   219.76 m / 215.49 m x 29.87 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      9 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (8x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns (2x2 guns), 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all forward
      6 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns (4 mounts), 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all aft, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1916 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 13,391 lbs / 6,074 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   456.30 ft / 139.08 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   456.30 ft / 139.08 m   27.13 ft / 8.27 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 84,135 shp / 62,764 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,950 tons

Complement:
   1,156 - 1,503

Cost:
   £4.535 million / $18.140 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,674 tons, 5.5 %
   Armour: 8,898 tons, 29.1 %
      - Belts: 3,454 tons, 11.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 687 tons, 2.2 %
      - Armament: 1,948 tons, 6.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,598 tons, 8.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 211 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 3,135 tons, 10.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,366 tons, 40.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,118 tons, 13.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     39,260 lbs / 17,808 Kg = 28.6 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 17.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.515
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.21 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.59 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (70 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.78 ft / 6.03 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 46,807 Square feet or 4,348 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 189 lbs/sq ft or 923 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.34
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc. Weight: 400 tons
250 tons FC
  25 tons Wireless
  25 tons Flag Facilities
  25 tons Crew Comfort
  25 tons Reserved
  50 tons Radar instalation
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Korpen on December 08, 2008, 01:34:31 PM
Quote from: Tanthalas on December 07, 2008, 09:57:16 PM
Advantage, USNS Scout Cruiser laid down 1911 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   5,900 t light; 6,170 t standard; 7,108 t normal; 7,859 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   505.00 ft / 505.00 ft x 54.50 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
   153.92 m / 153.92 m x 16.61 m  x 6.71 m

Armament:
      6 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (3x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 1,536 lbs / 697 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes
Just six main guns, no secondaries?

QuoteArmour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   320.00 ft / 97.54 m   8.82 ft / 2.69 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
VERY narrow belt, considering the large amount of fuel she carries, I would say that is a problem.
Also the belt is too short (not by much i would guess).


QuoteMiscellaneous weights: 180 tons, 2.5 %
Just six main guns, and no FC?


QuoteHull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.411
Seen destroyers with higher BC, I think it is a bit low considering her size.

I get the impression that the ships are supposed to be highly specialised, but not certain for what; the small number of guns makes her unsuited to melees, but they are not really big enough to give any real long-range advantage, especially considering the lack of space for FC.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Tanthalas on December 09, 2008, 09:16:22 AM
Folowons th the previous Scout Cruisers

Sydney, USNS Scout Cruiser laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   8,000 t light; 8,317 t standard; 9,439 t normal; 10,337 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   552.00 ft / 540.00 ft x 58.50 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
   168.25 m / 164.59 m x 17.83 m  x 7.32 m

Armament:
      6 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (3x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 1,536 lbs / 697 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   375.00 ft / 114.30 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 107 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      4.00" / 102 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 64,045 shp / 47,777 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,020 tons

Complement:
   478 - 622

Cost:
   £1.162 million / $4.648 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 192 tons, 2.0 %
   Armour: 1,459 tons, 15.5 %
      - Belts: 743 tons, 7.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 347 tons, 3.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 369 tons, 3.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 2,554 tons, 27.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,545 tons, 37.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,439 tons, 15.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 2.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,342 lbs / 4,238 Kg = 36.5 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 15.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.436
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.23 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m (21.00 ft / 6.40 m aft of break)
      - Mid (70 %):      21.00 ft / 6.40 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.20 ft / 5.85 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,924 Square feet or 1,851 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 104 lbs/sq ft or 507 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.78
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: The Rock Doctor on December 09, 2008, 09:57:27 AM
I'd be looking for AA guns, machine guns, torps, and some extra weight for future growth and long-range wireless...
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Jefgte on December 09, 2008, 10:25:33 AM
No secondary armament ?

8000t & 8" are big for scout job.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Korpen on December 11, 2008, 06:12:55 AM
Quote from: Tanthalas on December 09, 2008, 09:16:22 AM
Sydney, USNS Scout Cruiser laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   8,000 t light; 8,317 t standard; 9,439 t normal; 10,337 t full load

I think I will repeat my comments; just six guns?
Se needs misc weight for communications equipment (if the 250t is FC) or FC (if the 250ton is not).

Too large to be a scout that can be risked, but not capable to fight if needed IMO.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: P3D on December 11, 2008, 05:35:26 PM
If you want to economize, economize on speed rather than armament.
Title: Re: NS 1914 ship Proposals
Post by: Korpen on December 15, 2008, 06:42:32 AM
Quote from: Tanthalas on December 04, 2008, 08:28:10 PM
First of the "New Generation" Battlecruisers
3 under construction (USNSS Inflexible, USNSS Indefatigable, USNSS Invincible)

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/Inflexible.gif) (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/Inflexible.gif)

USNSS Inflexible, USNS Battlecruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   23,800 t light; 24,868 t standard; 27,767 t normal; 30,087 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   719.00 ft / 700.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   219.15 m / 213.36 m x 28.04 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      6 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      20 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (10x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
     2 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas

From the 1914/2 report:
Quote from: Tanthalas on November 14, 2008, 10:33:51 AM
                
Research              Turn      Notes
1908 Guns               1         1.00 spent this HY  1.00 Total Tech Exchange
1912 DD                 6         1.00 spent this HY  6.00 Total
1913 Aircraft           2         1.00 spent this HY  2.00 Total
1912 Night Fight        5         1.00 spent this HY  5.00 Total
trip 12" mount          3          .50 spent this HY  1.50 Total
Trip 14" mount          3          .50 spent this HY  1.50 Total
1910 CBR                5         1.00 spent this HY  5.00 Total
It seem like you lack the tech for building those ships, as you did not have any triple 356mm gun turrets in 1913 when they were laid down.