The past HY I dedicated some Foreign Aid $ to rebuilding poor Greece.
There are other nations, which happen to be unplayed, which Bavaria would like to be closer to. Rumania and Persia are on that list, and there might be others when I look around.
Would it be unreasonable or disallowed to simply budget to send those nations some $ and worry about what exactly that means when and if they become played?
I dont see why not, after all i was flooding egypt with cash (course I was planing an invasion ^.^ )
Where there are at least two other player countries involved it might be problematic. Persia has strong economical relations to Orange, and most Persian oilfields are under Orange and Iberian control.
Ahh good thing I asked. Yeah if there are two countries heavily involved there, it won't work. I will look elsewhere than Persia. Also, actually *reading* I see Rumania is pretty much a Russian province.
I may just scuttle this notion :)
And Romania pissed off the Habsburgs and is under economic blockade.
Borys
Quote from: Tanthalas on August 30, 2008, 05:46:04 PM
I dont see why not, after all i was flooding egypt with cash (course I was planing an invasion ^.^ )
Wait, cash? Show me the money!
Quote from: Talos on August 31, 2008, 12:10:00 AM
Quote from: Tanthalas on August 30, 2008, 05:46:04 PM
I dont see why not, after all i was flooding egypt with cash (course I was planing an invasion ^.^ )
Wait, cash? Show me the money!
LOL before your time (and my most recent deployment) had it worked well Italia would be a far larger power than they are (and Egypt wouldnt exist at all LOL)
Quote from: Borys on August 30, 2008, 11:04:26 PM
And Romania pissed off the Habsburgs and is under economic blockade.
Borys
And how does the de facto closing of the Donau affect the Habsburgs?
My guesses:
- a shortage of oil products (gasoline, petroleum) in Europe, esp. in countries relying on Romanian oil. This includes Habsburg, BC, and Italy - add in the falling out of Ottoman fields. Italy and BC are POd by Habsburgs.
- long-term loss of export markets (-IC) due to Romania looking for trade alternatives after the Bosporus is opened. Romania should be affected similarly. Still hurts Romania more.
- some unrest among the Romanian ethnicity in Transylvania
- Austria must find a new reliable source of oil as the Galizian fields cannot cover the increasing internal demand, and Romanian oil might be subject to embargo in the future.
- The Roman-Bulgar czardom making closer ties with Turkey, Ukraine, Russia and France.
Reminder to Rocky: revisit oil resources distribution
Quote from: Korpen on August 31, 2008, 01:42:53 AM
Quote from: Borys on August 30, 2008, 11:04:26 PM
And Romania pissed off the Habsburgs and is under economic blockade.
Borys
And how does the de facto closing of the Donau affect the Habsburgs?
Maybe greater importance of Thessaloniki?
The Danube Iron Gate rapids had been blasted not so long ago, and barge traffic although possible, is:
a/ new
b/ not so easy
And closign the Danube would lead to clsoing of Habsburg RR - at the moment the Vlach-Bulgars simplty have to pay through the nose for transit.
Borys
Quote from: P3D on August 31, 2008, 02:03:19 AM
My guesses:
- a shortage of oil products (gasoline, petroleum) in Europe, esp. in countries relying on Romanian oil. This includes Habsburg, BC, and Italy - add in the falling out of Ottoman fields. Italy and BC are POd by Habsburgs.
I rely on Romanian oil?
Quote from: P3D on August 31, 2008, 02:03:19 AM- long-term loss of export markets (-IC) due to Romania looking for trade alternatives after the Bosporus is opened. Romania should be affected similarly. Still hurts Romania more.
I lose money due to loss of Romanian transit? Sounds reasonable, but let's not go overboard ... 0,5$?
Quote from: P3D on August 31, 2008, 02:03:19 AM- some unrest among the Romanian ethnicity in Transylvania
Possible, but not a given - will try to write something about it.
Quote from: P3D on August 31, 2008, 02:03:19 AM- Austria must find a new reliable source of oil as the Galizian fields cannot cover the increasing internal demand, and Romanian oil might be subject to embargo in the future.
I suppose that current exporters are:
- CSA
- UNK
- Russia
Quote from: P3D on August 31, 2008, 02:03:19 AM- The Roman-Bulgar Czardom making closer ties with Turkey, Ukraine, Russia and France.
The closer ties with the Ottomans is what got them the embargo ... another possible scenario is the hanging of the guys who denied the Habsburgs the passage of troops in August 1912 and begging for forgiveness. Joining the Habsburg-Iberia coalition would had given Vlach-Bulgaria access to the Aegan Sea - so that decision gave Romano-Bulgaria nothing (that I know off) but a cold winter.
Borys
Quote from: Borys on August 31, 2008, 03:05:10 AM
. Joining the Habsburg-Iberia coalition would had given Vlach-Bulgaria access to the Aegan Sea - so that decision gave Romano-Bulgaria nothing (that I know off) but a cold winter.
Well it DID give them allot of friends in Europe, standing up to evil is always popular. :)
*goes assigning some investment to Romania*
Quote from: P3D on August 31, 2008, 02:03:19 AM
My guesses:
- a shortage of oil products (gasoline, petroleum) in Europe, esp. in countries relying on Romanian oil. This includes Habsburg, BC, and Italy - add in the falling out of Ottoman fields. Italy and BC are POd by Habsburgs.
BC should not be severely affected, if nothing else oil barges can go trough Ukraine to the Baltic sea (Dnieper-Bug canal).
The European interior waterways are huge trade channels, according the old encyclopaedias (Encyclopaedia Britannica & Nordisk familjabok) some of ports on the Rhine handle more shipping then Trieste or Genoa. In fact going by their numbers, the largest port in Bavaria would be Mannheim.
I guess that BS = BC?
The Dnepr-Bug canal is not particularly large. Due to the quantities involved, I think that rail is the best option.
Borys
I think we'll see the first dedicated tankers sailing down the Bosporus then.
Quote from: Borys on August 31, 2008, 05:11:04 AM
I guess that BS = BC?
Yes, corrected that and added some musings.
QuoteThe Dnepr-Bug canal is not particularly large. Due to the quantities involved, I think that rail is the best option.
Borys
Maybe not, but it one route that is probably cheaper then rail, even if it got limited capacity.
My Oil is comming out of the Black Sea Ports and through the Bosporus at the moment. It certainly isnt comming overland. So yes Dedicated Tankers do sail through the Bosporus. Not very large ones but then they dont have to be as its such a short trip.
Now in the Future there will be another supplyer for Italia Oil. Investing in relatively large by WW1 standard dedicated tankers and going to see if we can get the UNK and CSA to deliver the oil halfway.
Charles
Quote from: P3D on August 30, 2008, 06:11:41 PM
Where there are at least two other player countries involved it might be problematic. Persia has strong economical relations to Orange, and most Persian oilfields are under Orange and Iberian control.
??? Not that I mind but when I looked into getting access to the Persian Oil fields I was told you had them locked up. Exports is one thing but I thought control was clearly in your hands.
Michael
Quote from: miketr on August 31, 2008, 08:55:56 AM
??? Not that I mind but when I looked into getting access to the Persian Oil fields I was told you had them locked up. Exports is one thing but I thought control was clearly in your hands.
I sent you a PM back then that Orange would not object Iberian investments there. Guess it was lost.
Getting the oil from Romania to BC through Ukraine was not an option due to a short-lived unrest - which was triggering the Austrian embargo the first time as Romania was blocked from access from everybody but Russia and restive Ukraine.
Borys:
You lost money due to the reciprocating Romanian embargo of Habsburg goods which was far from popular as the Ottoman market was also lost.
Quote from: ctwaterman on August 31, 2008, 06:29:10 AM
My Oil is comming out of the Black Sea Ports and through the Bosporus at the moment. It certainly isnt comming overland. So yes Dedicated Tankers do sail through the Bosporus. Not very large ones but then they dont have to be as its such a short trip.
Now in the Future there will be another supplyer for Italia Oil. Investing in relatively large by WW1 standard dedicated tankers and going to see if we can get the UNK and CSA to deliver the oil halfway.
Charles
I understand Italia building some oilers for fleet supply, but tanker fleets both directions should really be part of MM. I also expect, though haven't done any work on the subject, that the CSA has a MM significant in size, a good percentage of which is likely tanker stock, considering all the Oil exporting the CSA is doing.
So no need to meet half way, I don't think, CSA flagged ships are likely delivering to your doorstep, and I'll bet enterprising Italian shipping magnates are probably building larger longer-legged tankers to bring oil home from as well.
QuoteReminder to Rocky: revisit oil resources distribution
I'll revisit this for 1/14. Too much other stuff to deal with in the interim.
The current state of the Romanian economy is an interesting question. I'll have to think on it.
In the interim - foreign aid will probably cause an NPC to become more favorably inclined to the donor, which could be useful later on. Foreign investments - the GC/Hapsburger model of investing in places like Brazil - can also lead to closer ties down the road. It's largely a matter of roleplaying the scenario out.
I seemed to have kicked the hornets nest :)
However, if Rumania was embargoed and has severed markets and an economic impact, that seems like a investment opportunity worth annoying the Hapsburgs. Now if only we can get the Ukraine to calm down so goods can be shipped overland as well.
Anyone mucking about with the Mughals or Siam? Or Ghana?
when I was playing before the NS had a prolonged presence in Siam (id imagine they still do especialy with the weakend MK)
NS sent foreign aid to Siam, New Zion, California (while it was still independant), and New Beleriand (Rohan, kind of).
Well the principle appears to be there.
I want Bavaria to be "reaching out" to various nations and try to forge some active oversea links.
I did have a thought as to an alternate to aiding Rumania if the Habsburgs really object. Some nation hurt by war, with territory wrested away, owning oilfields by in the fertile crescent..... however that would likely go over extremely poorly :)
Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on September 01, 2008, 11:27:39 AM
Well the principle appears to be there.
I want Bavaria to be "reaching out" to various nations and try to forge some active oversea links.
I did have a thought as to an alternate to aiding Rumania if the Habsburgs really object. Some nation hurt by war, with territory wrested away, owning oilfields by in the fertile crescent..... however that would likely go over extremely poorly :)
Reach out for some tribes in Western Africa. You might even get a colony if you ask the mods nice.
The Bavarians are a little late to the colonization party, but I have a mostly complete revision of HY1,1913 which includes a little bit of money to explore opportunities the Ghana region. The 'enclave' model such as historical seen in China might be more effective in establishing a Bavarian presence overseas. Which then gives a bigger reason for a merchant marine, and an actual navy somewhere in the distant future....
Tardiness shouldn't deter the Bavarians from trying for colonies if they are so inclined.
Tankers - thing is that I believe that oil from Baku did not go out by pipeline, but by RR. Maybe Italy is far away enough as to make reloading at Rostov (or thereabouts) viable.
Eliminates gauge break too.
Although 5" tracks run from Baku to Triest ...
Borys
I figure my ships are visiting Constana or Varna or even Batumi to load oil right now. In the Future they will be larger tankers loading in places like New Orleans, Norfolk, Baltamore the Oil Ports of the CSA south west and the UNK PA Oil fields.
Hey who owns that large pink splotch off the straits of Gibraltar in the Mid Atlantic.... is the UNK or is that the mystical Atlantis....?????
Charles
Quote from: Borys on September 02, 2008, 10:19:37 PM
Tankers - thing is that I believe that oil from Baku did not go out by pipeline, but by RR. Maybe Italy is far away enough as to make reloading at Rostov (or thereabouts) viable.
Eliminates gauge break too.
Although 5" tracks run from Baku to Triest ...
Borys
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baku-Batumi_pipeline
Construction started in 1897, completed in 1906, worlds longets piplein when built.
I'm assuming the large pink splotch is the Azores, owned by UNK. It was much nicer and tidier before the Austrians despoiled it.
thanks - that's news to me
Borys
FWIW: The major CSA Oil Ports are probably all along the Texas coast:
Galveston (the most major one)
Corpus Christi
Brownsville/Matamoros
New Orleans itself is likely the focus of the ship construction and maintenance businesses for the oil trade, but not an embarkation point itself. Remember, there is little to no off-shore oil extraction at this point.
On the West Coast:
The bustling city of Guaymas
Los Angeles