im going to try and keep all my ships in one thread (im not so good at that usualy)
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1912
Displacement:
5,000 t light; 5,338 t standard; 6,354 t normal; 7,167 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
470.00 ft / 470.00 ft x 60.00 ft x 19.00 ft (normal load)
143.26 m / 143.26 m x 18.29 m x 5.79 m
Armament:
8 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (4x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1912 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (6x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1912 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 2,432 lbs / 1,103 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 40,483 shp / 30,200 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,829 tons
Complement:
355 - 462
Cost:
£0.656 million / $2.625 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 304 tons, 4.8 %
Armour: 80 tons, 1.3 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 80 tons, 1.3 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,614 tons, 25.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,952 tons, 46.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,354 tons, 21.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.8 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
5,527 lbs / 2,507 Kg = 21.6 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.70
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.415
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.83 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.68 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Stern: 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Average freeboard: 17.24 ft / 5.25 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 120.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 156.9 %
Waterplane Area: 17,522 Square feet or 1,628 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 109 lbs/sq ft or 533 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 2.01
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
thats the first one opinions (im thinking CL hunter/destroyer leader, im also considering 6" guns instead of the 8" ones
8" guns need turret and barbette ...
Borys
Yes in 1912, that's better.
But you could instal them in casemate too.
Jef ;)
No armor? The Swiss were crazy, but not THAT crazy! ;D Twin 4" mounts are probably a bad idea, stick to singles for now.
You might find the following designs interesting...
Improved Aurora class, New Switzerland Cruiser laid down 1912
Displacement:
6,702 t light; 7,067 t standard; 8,937 t normal; 10,432 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
550.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 55.00 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
167.64 m / 167.64 m x 16.76 m x 6.71 m
Armament:
10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (5x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1912 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1912 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
Weight of broadside 1,208 lbs / 548 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 270
6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 350.00 ft / 106.68 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.50" / 13 mm 0.50" / 13 mm
- Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 61,743 shp / 46,060 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 10,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,365 tons
Complement:
459 - 597
Cost:
£0.706 million / $2.824 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 151 tons, 1.7 %
Armour: 954 tons, 10.7 %
- Belts: 525 tons, 5.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 29 tons, 0.3 %
- Armour Deck: 363 tons, 4.1 %
- Conning Tower: 37 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,462 tons, 27.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,025 tons, 33.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,234 tons, 25.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 110 tons, 1.2 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9,699 lbs / 4,399 Kg = 89.8 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 12.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.26
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.470
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Stern: 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 18.18 ft / 5.54 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125.7 %
Waterplane Area: 19,624 Square feet or 1,823 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 91 lbs/sq ft or 445 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.47
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
***
Olympia class, New Switzerland Cruiser laid down 1912
Displacement:
6,510 t light; 6,875 t standard; 8,815 t normal; 10,367 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
550.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 55.00 ft x 21.70 ft (normal load)
167.64 m / 167.64 m x 16.76 m x 6.61 m
Armament:
6 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (3x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1912 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1912 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
Weight of broadside 1,664 lbs / 755 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 320.00 ft / 97.54 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 1.50" / 38 mm 1.50" / 38 mm
- Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 40,448 shp / 30,175 Kw = 27.00 kts
Range 11,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,492 tons
Complement:
454 - 591
Cost:
£0.628 million / $2.513 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 208 tons, 2.4 %
Armour: 1,354 tons, 15.4 %
- Belts: 609 tons, 6.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 155 tons, 1.8 %
- Armour Deck: 545 tons, 6.2 %
- Conning Tower: 46 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 1,613 tons, 18.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,195 tons, 36.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,305 tons, 26.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 140 tons, 1.6 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12,463 lbs / 5,653 Kg = 48.7 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 13.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.50
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.470
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Forecastle (37 %): 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Mid (50 %): 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Stern: 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Average freeboard: 17.83 ft / 5.43 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 117.8 %
Waterplane Area: 19,624 Square feet or 1,823 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 138 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 97 lbs/sq ft or 474 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.48
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
USNS Perth, USNS Light Cruiser laid down 1912
Displacement:
4,000 t light; 4,171 t standard; 4,934 t normal; 5,545 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
500.00 ft / 500.00 ft x 45.45 ft x 18.00 ft (normal load)
152.40 m / 152.40 m x 13.85 m x 5.49 m
Armament:
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1912 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1912 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 864 lbs / 392 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 42,995 shp / 32,074 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,374 tons
Complement:
293 - 382
Cost:
£0.471 million / $1.883 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 108 tons, 2.2 %
Armour: 34 tons, 0.7 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 34 tons, 0.7 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,714 tons, 34.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,023 tons, 41.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 934 tons, 18.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 120 tons, 2.4 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,469 lbs / 1,574 Kg = 32.1 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 13.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.24
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.422
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m (11.00 ft / 3.35 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
- Stern: 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
- Average freeboard: 15.74 ft / 4.80 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 132.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 117.4 %
Waterplane Area: 14,189 Square feet or 1,318 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 82 lbs/sq ft or 399 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.50
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
25 Tons Wireless
25 Tons FC
12 Tons Torps
4 Tons Night Fighting
12 Tons Deapth Charges
2 Tons Hydrophones
10 Tons Limited Flag Facilities
16 Tons Crew Comfort
20 tons reserved for future growth
No armor?
Tin Clad, in the extreme. More like a lady in a negligé .
I wasnt planing to armor it (its suposed to be a CL after all) its realy just intended to act as a destroyer leader, and armor (or bigger guns) might tempt its comander to take on Heavier ships than it is intended to play with.
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1912
Displacement:
15,000 t light; 16,104 t standard; 18,044 t normal; 19,596 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
600.40 ft / 600.40 ft x 76.00 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
183.00 m / 183.00 m x 23.16 m x 7.32 m
Armament:
6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x3 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1912 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1912 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
Weight of broadside 6,048 lbs / 2,743 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 347.00 ft / 105.77 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 253.00 ft / 77.11 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 347.00 ft / 105.77 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Main Belt covers 89 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
- Armour deck: 1.24" / 31 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 75,524 shp / 56,341 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,492 tons
Complement:
777 - 1,011
Cost:
£1.590 million / $6.358 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 756 tons, 4.2 %
Armour: 4,157 tons, 23.0 %
- Belts: 2,486 tons, 13.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 833 tons, 4.6 %
- Armour Deck: 749 tons, 4.2 %
- Conning Tower: 89 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 3,011 tons, 16.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,992 tons, 38.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,817 tons, 15.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 310 tons, 1.7 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
22,525 lbs / 10,217 Kg = 26.1 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 16.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.14
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.577
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.90 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.50 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Mid (50 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m (22.00 ft / 6.71 m before break)
- Stern: 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 21.04 ft / 6.41 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 176.1 %
Waterplane Area: 32,652 Square feet or 3,033 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 144 lbs/sq ft or 703 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.52
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
An older AC and CL killer.
I wonder how it would fare against a 8/10x9-10" ship?
Borys
Good pocket BC Tanthalas
-------------------
Interresting battle Borys.
Jef ;)
Yes, Jef.
This NS design is an enlarged, better armoured Graf Spee. Well armoured against 6" fire.
My design for 11,000 cruiser with 4x2x9" guns is armoured on a similar scale. And I think that it will fire better, with more guns and higher ROF.
Yes, interesting indeed ...
Borys
Quote from: Borys on September 01, 2008, 03:23:41 AM
Yes, Jef.
This NS design is an enlarged, better armoured Graf Spee. Well armoured against 6" fire.
My design for 11,000 cruiser with 4x2x9" guns is armoured on a similar scale. And I think that it will fire better, with more guns and higher ROF.
Yes, interesting indeed ...
Borys
Would depend on speed borys. Mine has better range and FC so if it also has superior speed then it would control the encounter, and your ship would never get to fire a shot.
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 01, 2008, 10:08:54 AM
Quote from: Borys on September 01, 2008, 03:23:41 AM
Yes, Jef.
This NS design is an enlarged, better armoured Graf Spee. Well armoured against 6" fire.
My design for 11,000 cruiser with 4x2x9" guns is armoured on a similar scale. And I think that it will fire better, with more guns and higher ROF.
Yes, interesting indeed ...
Borys
Would depend on speed borys. Mine has better range and FC so if it also has superior speed then it would control the encounter, and your ship would never get to fire a shot.
The Austrians got FC as well, and have more experience with them then the NS have...
Both ships would have guns big enogh to reach out to any distance were a hit on moving target is possible.
Quote from: Korpen on September 01, 2008, 10:12:22 AM
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 01, 2008, 10:08:54 AM
Quote from: Borys on September 01, 2008, 03:23:41 AM
Yes, Jef.
This NS design is an enlarged, better armoured Graf Spee. Well armoured against 6" fire.
My design for 11,000 cruiser with 4x2x9" guns is armoured on a similar scale. And I think that it will fire better, with more guns and higher ROF.
Yes, interesting indeed ...
Borys
Would depend on speed borys. Mine has better range and FC so if it also has superior speed then it would control the encounter, and your ship would never get to fire a shot.
The Austrians got FC as well, and have more experience with them then the NS have...
Both ships would have guns big enogh to reach out to any distance were a hit on moving target is possible.
would they see I didnt know that, that makes me rethink the ship compleatly then. I was thinking 12" would let me outrange 10" ships, oh well i g2g for a bit ill play around with it more later.
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 01, 2008, 10:16:00 AM
would they see I didnt know that, that makes me rethink the ship compleatly then. I was thinking 12" would let me outrange 10" ships, oh well i g2g for a bit ill play around with it more later.
Well, the larger guns are most likely more accurate at longer range, and it can defeat 15cm at much longer ranges. Think your design armour would be able to stop Hapsburg 9,2 shells at about 10km, and the deck at below 13km. The opposite would not be true.
So I think that the six 30cm gunned ships would have an advantage at long range as it is more accurate, and can more easily defeat armour for a crippling strike. At the same time the need of spotting combined with the time of flight will result in that any advantage in rate of fire for the lighter gun would be significantly lessened.
But if the fight is conducted at less then 10km, the lighter guns higher ROF, and larger number would give them a significant advantage IMO.
my "goa;" in this exersize is to be able to determine what range combat is at, basicly to control the engagement. im working with another idea atm ill post it afterwhile
Ahoj!
At what range would 350-400lbs APC shells from 9" (ish) guns fail to pentrate the 6" belt?
Borys
USNS Perth, USNS Cruiser laid down 1912
Displacement:
15,000 t light; 15,850 t standard; 17,476 t normal; 18,777 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
600.00 ft / 600.00 ft x 75.00 ft x 25.00 ft (normal load)
182.88 m / 182.88 m x 22.86 m x 7.62 m
Armament:
10 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (4 mounts), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1912 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1912 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
Weight of broadside 5,864 lbs / 2,660 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 390.00 ft / 118.87 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 210.00 ft / 64.00 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 390.00 ft / 118.87 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
- Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 72,779 shp / 54,293 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,927 tons
Complement:
759 - 987
Cost:
£1.547 million / $6.188 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 733 tons, 4.2 %
Armour: 4,427 tons, 25.3 %
- Belts: 2,618 tons, 15.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 942 tons, 5.4 %
- Armour Deck: 866 tons, 5.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2,902 tons, 16.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,637 tons, 38.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,476 tons, 14.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.7 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
20,942 lbs / 9,499 Kg = 41.9 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 16.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.72
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.544
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.49 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Mid (70 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Stern: 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 19.92 ft / 6.07 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 157.9 %
Waterplane Area: 31,220 Square feet or 2,900 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 141 lbs/sq ft or 691 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.43
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
250 tons FC set
25 Tons Wireless
10 Tons Limited Flag Facilities
4 Tons Night Fighting
9 Tons Deapth Charges
2 Tons Hydrophones
Quote from: Borys on September 01, 2008, 09:23:52 PM
Ahoj!
At what range would 350-400lbs APC shells from 9" (ish) guns fail to pentrate the 6" belt?
Borys
IDK but there is the 10" version I was playing with.
Proly not what I should be building but it came out nice so thought Id go ahead and post it.
USNSS Tiger, USNS Battle Cruiser laid down 1912
mark 1 see mk2 for final (I think its final anyway)
That's no battlecruiser. That's a fast battleship!
I like her, something to counter those Dutch BCs. A few comments:
NS would use 14" guns, not 13.5". Secondaries are a bit light, you DO NOT want torpedo boats getting within torpedo range. You miight want to add 4 more 6" guns and alot more 4 inchers. You can probably reduce shells per main guns. Deck armor is thin (for an NS Ship) even the Constitutions have 3" decks. You can probably reduce belt armor to compensate. If you can reduce length by 10 ft you can fit her into a Type 3 Slip. I would love to see her with 16 inchers, but that's probably for the future.
dont know if I can reduce her length that is the SS standard length for 27 kts (so it takes less shp to get to 27) my research indicates historical norm for decks was about 1.5 inches (on german BBs and BCs). I was thinking a 4 ship class Lion, Tiger, Panther, and Puma as the heavy anchors for the NSN, and yes they are fast BBs not true BCs i'll try reducing the shells per gun for a few more 6" guns (4 for balance purposes)
Reworked a tad to take some of DFs advice into account
USNSS Lion, USNS Battle Cruiser laid down 1912
Final Below
fixed the issue Discoverd during drawing and upgraded to 14" guns (the turrets wouldnt fit.... ) added the pic
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/Lion.gif)
USNSS Lion, USNS Fast Battleship laid down 1912
Displacement:
28,858 t light; 30,258 t standard; 33,000 t normal; 35,194 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
720.00 ft / 720.00 ft x 99.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
219.46 m / 219.46 m x 30.18 m x 9.14 m
Armament:
8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1912 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (8x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1912 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (4x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1912 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1912 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 12,960 lbs / 5,879 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 476.00 ft / 145.08 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: 6.00" / 152 mm 244.00 ft / 74.37 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 475.00 ft / 144.78 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.00" / 25 mm 475.00 ft / 144.78 m 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 80,063 shp / 59,727 Kw = 27.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,936 tons
Complement:
1,223 - 1,591
Cost:
£2.818 million / $11.271 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,620 tons, 4.9 %
Armour: 11,187 tons, 33.9 %
- Belts: 6,384 tons, 19.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 457 tons, 1.4 %
- Armament: 2,257 tons, 6.8 %
- Armour Deck: 1,824 tons, 5.5 %
- Conning Tower: 266 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 3,192 tons, 9.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,458 tons, 37.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,142 tons, 12.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.2 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
44,492 lbs / 20,181 Kg = 32.4 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 17.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.540
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.27 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.83 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Mid (75 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Stern: 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Average freeboard: 19.99 ft / 6.09 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 158.3 %
Waterplane Area: 49,288 Square feet or 4,579 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 182 lbs/sq ft or 889 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.17
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
250 tons FC
25 tons Wireless
25 tons Flag Facilities
the DD ill be laying down in H113 (im finishing the report now) The replacement for alot of the light hulls I have in the watter atm.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/DD-1.gif)
USNSS Sipan, USNS Destroyer laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)
Displacement:
1,000 t light; 1,043 t standard; 1,241 t normal; 1,400 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
330.00 ft / 330.00 ft x 28.00 ft x 12.00 ft (normal load)
100.58 m / 100.58 m x 8.53 m x 3.66 m
Armament:
4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward
6 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 192 lbs / 87 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 21,312 shp / 15,899 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 3,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 357 tons
Complement:
103 - 135
Cost:
£0.153 million / $0.612 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 24 tons, 1.9 %
Machinery: 607 tons, 48.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 320 tons, 25.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 241 tons, 19.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 4.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
322 lbs / 146 Kg = 10.1 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.33
Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 10.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 82 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.32
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.33
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.392
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.79 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.17 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Mid (50 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Stern: 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Average freeboard: 12.24 ft / 3.73 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 177.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 74.2 %
Waterplane Area: 5,663 Square feet or 526 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 64 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 131 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.57
- Overall: 0.56
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
10 Tons Wireless
6 Tons Torps
4 Tons Minesweepiing
4 Tons Night Fighting
6 Tons Deapth charges
2 Tons Hydrophones
18 Tons Remaining for future growth/improvements
Drop the minesweeping stuff - there won't be room on the stern if she's already got depth charges there.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 06, 2008, 10:09:56 AM
Drop the minesweeping stuff - there won't be room on the stern if she's already got depth charges there.
ill have to post the pic the deapth charges are actualy roughly midships (in the pic you cant miss em) hold on a sec ill post the pic. Oh and realy at this stage all minesweeping gear consists of is a cable run between 2 ships (usualy destroyers) that they drag at a certian depth in the hope of disloging and exploding mines (atleast in the best of my knowlage)
POsted the pic keep in mind it isnt actualy finished, it is to scale however. As always 1pix=1foot
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 06, 2008, 10:32:35 AM
ill have to post the pic the deapth charges are actualy roughly midships (in the pic you cant miss em) hold on a sec ill post the pic. Oh and realy at this stage all minesweeping gear consists of is a cable run between 2 ships (usualy destroyers) that they drag at a certian depth in the hope of disloging and exploding mines (atleast in the best of my knowlage)
Depth charges amidship is a horrible idea, as that would put huge limits on how one can drop them without blowing the ship apart.
Quote from: Korpen on September 06, 2008, 10:42:31 AM
Depth charges amidship is a horrible idea, as that would put huge limits on how one can drop them without blowing the ship apart.
Agree...bad things happen when DCs go off to soon, which as a new tech they will. If they're still along side when that happens no more DDs, or at least a very unhappy DD.
meh ill rearange the pic later (I still think they look the best there)
Function over form in warships building, or you get really expensive coral reefs.
Quote from: Sachmle on September 06, 2008, 11:45:54 AM
Function over form in warships building, or you get really expensive coral reefs.
notes he inherited several of them already
NS has Advanced Mine Warfare so you have actual paravanes. So you can actually put the minesweeping gear midship, and the DC on the quarterdeck.
Found another pic of Swiss Ships (also 1':1pix):
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/ReneJr/NSdestroyers2.gif)
From Top to Bottom,
Van Hakes (William Tells similar)
John Walter
Mountbattens
Cool drawings.
I prefer night drawing
"Walter in the stars"
Jef ;)
That's one of the super secret 'Black Cats' special destroyers. They developed alot of the stuff that was later put on the standard destroyers. Here she is again, note that while the pattern is the same, the colors are different...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/ReneJr/NSdestroyers2-Copy.gif)
Sisters for USNSS Independance (2 Planed Wasp & Hornet)
USNSS Wasp, USNS Battle Cruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)
Displacement:
25,000 t light; 26,168 t standard; 28,724 t normal; 30,769 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
690.00 ft / 690.00 ft x 95.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
210.31 m / 210.31 m x 28.96 m x 9.14 m
Armament:
8 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1913 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (6x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1913 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (6x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
Weight of broadside 8,592 lbs / 3,897 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 448.00 ft / 136.55 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: 6.00" / 152 mm 242.00 ft / 73.76 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 448.00 ft / 136.55 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.00" / 25 mm 448.00 ft / 136.55 m 27.54 ft / 8.39 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 80,067 shp / 59,730 Kw = 27.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,601 tons
Complement:
1,103 - 1,434
Cost:
£2.434 million / $9.736 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,074 tons, 3.7 %
Armour: 10,279 tons, 35.8 %
- Belts: 6,058 tons, 21.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 457 tons, 1.6 %
- Armament: 1,890 tons, 6.6 %
- Armour Deck: 1,633 tons, 5.7 %
- Conning Tower: 242 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 3,243 tons, 11.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,054 tons, 35.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,724 tons, 13.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.2 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
39,983 lbs / 18,136 Kg = 46.3 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 6.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 17.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.511
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.26 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.27 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Mid (73 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Stern: 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Average freeboard: 19.81 ft / 6.04 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.0 %
Waterplane Area: 44,126 Square feet or 4,099 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 161 lbs/sq ft or 784 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.20
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
250 tons FC
25 tons Wireless
25 tons Flag Facilities
Are you sure the 7,000 extra tons are worth the extra armor? And these only have half the range. You could almost build 3 regular Independance class for the price of two of these.
Quote from: Desertfox on September 07, 2008, 08:55:47 PM
Are you sure the 7,000 extra tons are worth the extra armor? And these only have half the range. You could almost build 3 regular Independance class for the price of two of these.
realy im not sure they are, although they are armored against 14" guns, and the 12" guns they pack would be able to penitrate the armor carried on most potential enemies. The thought was since Everyone else wants to build the Various British BCs someone ought to build Derfflinger, which Wasp and Hornet are exact clones of. Independance is Flawed IMHO, no TB and looking at the ships you/I lost in the last war most were to mines and Torpedos (that makes me think that a TB would be a usefull adition).
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 08, 2008, 07:39:48 AM
Quote from: Desertfox on September 07, 2008, 08:55:47 PM
Are you sure the 7,000 extra tons are worth the extra armor? And these only have half the range. You could almost build 3 regular Independance class for the price of two of these.
realy im not sure they are, although they are armored against 14" guns, and the 12" guns they pack would be able to penitrate the armor carried on most potential enemies. The thought was since Everyone else wants to build the Various British BCs someone ought to build Derfflinger, which Wasp and Hornet are exact clones of. Independance is Flawed IMHO, no TB and looking at the ships you/I lost in the last war most were to mines and Torpedos (that makes me think that a TB would be a usefull adition).
I think the Netherlands are the only ones going for "British"-style BCs. In fact I do not think anyone else have laid down BCs with guns larger then 30,5cm.
So at least the Iberian and GC BCs are already more in the "German" style.
As for the torpedo bulkhead, it need to be thicker, would say 30-35mm is the minimum (and everything over 50mm unnecessary). Thin bulkheads are likely to fail, and only provide a fraction of the indicated increase in real protection.
It's a fairly good design, from my perspective. Whether it's a good design for NS depends on who you expect to fight (next):
-Maoria, which favors firepower + armor > speed
-Netherlands, which favors firepower + speed > armor
-DKB, which favors speed + armor > firepower
...to say nothing of France or other powers.
Quote from: Korpen on September 08, 2008, 07:46:57 AM
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 08, 2008, 07:39:48 AM
Quote from: Desertfox on September 07, 2008, 08:55:47 PM
Are you sure the 7,000 extra tons are worth the extra armor? And these only have half the range. You could almost build 3 regular Independance class for the price of two of these.
realy im not sure they are, although they are armored against 14" guns, and the 12" guns they pack would be able to penitrate the armor carried on most potential enemies. The thought was since Everyone else wants to build the Various British BCs someone ought to build Derfflinger, which Wasp and Hornet are exact clones of. Independance is Flawed IMHO, no TB and looking at the ships you/I lost in the last war most were to mines and Torpedos (that makes me think that a TB would be a usefull adition).
I think the Netherlands are the only ones going for "British"-style BCs. In fact I do not think anyone else have laid down BCs with guns larger then 30,5cm.
So at least the Iberian and GC BCs are more in the "German" style.
yes they mount lighter guns but they also mount lighter armor, I think im the only one trying to meld armor onto my fast BBs, and as I pointed out with my Tigers Id like to mount heavier guns to (just got to develop the tech... ). Now Korpen dont take this the wrong way, but you are a Potential enemy for me along with DKD, Maoria and Spain. I considerd just droping an inch of Deck armor on independance and adding a TB to the class (they curently have 3" decks which is to much for the period imho) and I hope to avoid any engagements with france.
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 08, 2008, 07:56:02 AM
yes they mount lighter guns but they also mount lighter armor, I think im the only one trying to meld armor onto my fast BBs, and as I pointed out with my Tigers Id like to mount heavier guns to (just got to develop the tech... ). Now Korpen dont take this the wrong way, but you are a Potential enemy for me along with DKD, Maoria and Spain. I considerd just droping an inch of Deck armor on independance and adding a TB to the class (they curently have 3" decks which is to much for the period imho) and I hope to avoid any engagements with france.
The Netherlands is defiantly a potential opponent of New Switzerland considering that relations have not normalised.
I think it is natural to compare your "wasp" to Wilhelmina der Nederlanden, as they belong to the same generation and are the same size.
In a duelling situation Wilhelmina is superior both in protection and in firepower.
Wasp is better protected in a shorter rang melee-situation were large numbers of small and medium calibre hits can be expected, but Wilhelmina's armour scheme protects her allot better from some 30,5cm shells then Wasps protect her from the same number of 38cm shells...
And when will we see the springsharps of the ships in the catch-up reports? Some of us are curious. :)
I know Desertfox outlined some in his thread: http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=2390.msg25320#msg25320
But I see that they are not correct as New Switzerland lacks the tech to build them at the times indicated by Desertfox.
I'm also considering this which is just a modified Indy
USNSS Wasp, USNS Battle Cruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)
Displacement:
17,171 t light; 18,333 t standard; 22,980 t normal; 26,698 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
665.00 ft / 650.00 ft x 77.00 ft x 32.00 ft (normal load)
202.69 m / 198.12 m x 23.47 m x 9.75 m
Armament:
8 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1913 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (6x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1913 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
Weight of broadside 8,208 lbs / 3,723 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 325.00 ft / 99.06 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 325.00 ft / 99.06 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 325.00 ft / 99.06 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 77 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 9.00" / 229 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 9.00" / 229 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 70,908 shp / 52,898 Kw = 27.00 kts
Range 15,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 8,365 tons
Complement:
933 - 1,213
Cost:
£2.028 million / $8.110 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,026 tons, 4.5 %
Armour: 5,069 tons, 22.1 %
- Belts: 2,340 tons, 10.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 1,337 tons, 5.8 %
- Armour Deck: 1,236 tons, 5.4 %
- Conning Tower: 157 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 2,827 tons, 12.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,949 tons, 34.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,809 tons, 25.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.3 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
27,052 lbs / 12,271 Kg = 31.3 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 16.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.85
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.28
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.502
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.44 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.50 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Stern: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Average freeboard: 19.56 ft / 5.96 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129.6 %
Waterplane Area: 33,414 Square feet or 3,104 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 149 lbs/sq ft or 728 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.50
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
although it still has the indys largest problems of no TB (puting one on it only gaind .5 torps) and high recoil (although its .85 vs the .88 on the Indy DF sent me) im working on fixing them up so they fit with the tech I had available (I only got the SS reports on them yesterday and actualy didnt have a slip capable of building indy as it was outlind)
DF/Walter can either of you tell me if the NS had a Type 3 slip that wasnt listed? I ask because both of the "cruisers" that DF had me build required one, and acording to my slips list I didnt have any (which could like everything else have bene totaly out of date)
There's a pair listed at Phoenix.
ok then im safe with the one for Independance, she is in the ships section of the NS fleet now.
Quote from: Korpen on September 08, 2008, 08:26:53 AM
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 08, 2008, 07:56:02 AM
yes they mount lighter guns but they also mount lighter armor, I think im the only one trying to meld armor onto my fast BBs, and as I pointed out with my Tigers Id like to mount heavier guns to (just got to develop the tech... ). Now Korpen dont take this the wrong way, but you are a Potential enemy for me along with DKD, Maoria and Spain. I considerd just droping an inch of Deck armor on independance and adding a TB to the class (they curently have 3" decks which is to much for the period imho) and I hope to avoid any engagements with france.
The Netherlands is defiantly a potential opponent of New Switzerland considering that relations have not normalised.
I think it is natural to compare your "wasp" to Wilhelmina der Nederlanden, as they belong to the same generation and are the same size.
In a duelling situation Wilhelmina is superior both in protection and in firepower.
Wasp is better protected in a shorter rang melee-situation were large numbers of small and medium calibre hits can be expected, but Wilhelmina's armour scheme protects her allot better from some 30,5cm shells then Wasps protect her from the same number of 38cm shells...
And when will we see the springsharps of the ships in the catch-up reports? Some of us are curious. :)
I know Desertfox outlined some in his thread: http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=2390.msg25320#msg25320
But I see that they are not correct as New Switzerland lacks the tech to build them at the times indicated by Desertfox.
hope you dont mind me asking but how are you using sloped armor on a ship layed down in 1912 (its a 1912 tech isnt it) im refering to the 1912 Sloped external belts; "All or Nothing" Protective Schemes, so shouldnt we be able to use it in 1914 at the earliest? Mind you im just going off the rules and I have bene wrong on them before.
I didn't put torpedo bulkheads on my ships, because I don't really think they help. Instead I used increased subdivisions and researched turbo-electric to further subdivide the ships.
While I did lose quite a number of ships to mines and torpedoes, not one heavy cruiser or capital ship has yet been lost to underwater damage. United States survived a torpedo hit. Alliance sank two German BCs after taking a mine hit, and Constitution has survived close to five torpedo hits. Hawaii did have to be grounded after striking a mine, but she already had accumulated damage from 4 battles. Rigel did not sink after taking 3 torpedo hits, untill her mags blew up.
Hey, let's not distort things - Alliance sank a pair of twenty-year old traditional armored cruisers. Constitution was hit by 14" torpedoes - a far cry from modern fish or mines.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 08, 2008, 10:03:56 AM
Hey, let's not distort things - Alliance sank a pair of twenty-year old traditional armored cruisers. Constitution was hit by 14" torpedoes - a far cry from modern fish or mines.
hehehe for me its simple Torpedos = damage and if you can protect against it you do so, as to the weight of the TB my research indicates that much over 1" is well a waste (going to 2" only gains you .5 torps over 1", but 1" is the lightest effective bulkhead)
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 08, 2008, 09:04:41 AM
hope you dont mind me asking but how are you using sloped armor on a ship layed down in 1912 (its a 1912 tech isnt it) im refering to the 1912 Sloped external belts; "All or Nothing" Protective Schemes, so shouldnt we be able to use it in 1914 at the earliest? Mind you im just going off the rules and I have bene wrong on them before.
Without going into details (those arguments can be found if you look around) they are the reason the tech were created. So the ships got oked as a avante guard, and the tech created to take sloped armour into account.
Quote from: Desertfox on September 08, 2008, 09:53:12 AMHawaii did have to be grounded after striking a mine, but she already had accumulated damage from 4 battles.
Actually, she was torpedoed. :P
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 08, 2008, 10:03:56 AM
Hey, let's not distort things - Alliance sank a pair of twenty-year old traditional armored cruisers. Constitution was hit by 14" torpedoes - a far cry from modern fish or mines.
40-45cm torpedoes are really about the norm for the time being. So do you mean "modern" as in up-to-date in the sim or in relation to today?
45 to 53 cm fish are the norm in 1913 (which is "modern" in that context) - I'm guessing the warheads are probably double that of a typical 35 cm torpedo...
Quote from: Korpen on September 08, 2008, 10:55:25 AM
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 08, 2008, 09:04:41 AM
hope you dont mind me asking but how are you using sloped armor on a ship layed down in 1912 (its a 1912 tech isnt it) im refering to the 1912 Sloped external belts; "All or Nothing" Protective Schemes, so shouldnt we be able to use it in 1914 at the earliest? Mind you im just going off the rules and I have bene wrong on them before.
Without going into details (those arguments can be found if you look around) they are the reason the tech were created. So the ships got oked as a avante guard, and the tech created to take sloped armour into account.
Ok I can buy that, only problem I see with it is that we have no method of accounting for sloped armor in SS2 (atleast that is I cant find one) so what are we assuming 10" is equivilant to in non sloped armor? im mostly curious for Comparison Purposes. (also that im working on another idea lol)
the 8X12" BC I am thinking about building, it would serve as a bridge up to my bigger ships
USNSS Monarch, USNS Battle Cruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)
Displacement:
23,200 t light; 24,380 t standard; 27,378 t normal; 29,776 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
703.00 ft / 689.00 ft x 95.00 ft x 31.00 ft (normal load)
214.27 m / 210.01 m x 28.96 m x 9.45 m
Armament:
8 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1913 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
on side, all amidships
2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (1x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1913 Model
Quick firing guns in a deck mount with hoist
on centreline aft
10 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 7,452 lbs / 3,380 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 414.00 ft / 126.19 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 275.00 ft / 83.82 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 414.00 ft / 126.19 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.80" / 46 mm 414.00 ft / 126.19 m 25.90 ft / 7.89 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 11.0" / 279 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm - -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 11.00" / 279 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 77,783 shp / 58,026 Kw = 27.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5,397 tons
Complement:
1,063 - 1,383
Cost:
£2.213 million / $8.852 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 931 tons, 3.4 %
Armour: 9,152 tons, 33.4 %
- Belts: 5,242 tons, 19.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 714 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 1,800 tons, 6.6 %
- Armour Deck: 1,181 tons, 4.3 %
- Conning Tower: 215 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 3,101 tons, 11.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,665 tons, 35.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,178 tons, 15.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.3 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
40,215 lbs / 18,241 Kg = 46.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 6.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 16.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.472
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.25 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Mid (70 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Stern: 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Average freeboard: 18.22 ft / 5.55 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 143.6 %
Waterplane Area: 42,544 Square feet or 3,953 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 161 lbs/sq ft or 784 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.23
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
250 ton FC
25 Ton Wireless
25 Ton Flag Facilities
50 tons "Radar"
In 1913 NS should lay down 14" gunned ships, IMHO.
The deck armor makes me cringe...
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 16, 2008, 08:54:05 AM
The deck armor makes me cringe...
1.5 inches isnt out of line with what they were carying otl... Bayern had 1.5-2" deck armor depending on what source you look at the period british BCs had 1-1.5" decks, so I took the average of 1.5" (just like I always have on my BBs/BCs). I'm trying to not let what I know happend OTL sway me from building ships that would be historicly acurate for the period. :'(
Belive me id love to build alaskas ^.^
THe Previously mentiond Alaskas, would require development of a new gun mount so im not sure using the 12" would be worth it in this case
USNSS Alaska, USNS Battlecruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)
Displacement:
24,044 t light; 25,276 t standard; 28,360 t normal; 30,827 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
720.00 ft / 720.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 31.00 ft (normal load)
219.46 m / 219.46 m x 27.43 m x 9.45 m
Armament:
8 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3 mounts), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1913 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (6x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1913 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
56 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns in single mounts, 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1913 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
34 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 7,759 lbs / 3,519 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 432.00 ft / 131.67 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 288.00 ft / 87.78 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 432.00 ft / 131.67 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 11.0" / 279 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 11.00" / 279 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 78,351 shp / 58,450 Kw = 27.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5,551 tons
Complement:
1,092 - 1,420
Cost:
£2.284 million / $9.136 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 970 tons, 3.4 %
Armour: 9,271 tons, 32.7 %
- Belts: 4,630 tons, 16.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 2,037 tons, 7.2 %
- Armour Deck: 2,383 tons, 8.4 %
- Conning Tower: 220 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 3,124 tons, 11.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,329 tons, 36.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,316 tons, 15.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.2 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
43,618 lbs / 19,785 Kg = 50.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 4.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 16.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.50
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.494
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.83 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 36.00 ft / 10.97 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Mid (40 %): 26.00 ft / 7.92 m (18.00 ft / 5.49 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Stern: 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Average freeboard: 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 64.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154.8 %
Waterplane Area: 42,945 Square feet or 3,990 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 160 lbs/sq ft or 781 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.40
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
but DAMN what a BC they would be
The only remarkable things about her are her seakeeping and the heaps of unnecessary light guns. Not to say that she's bad, just that in most respects, she's quite average.
Yesssss... The real Alaska went at 31.4kts. Alaska are good for their speed. That's something you don't have.
Not a remarkable amount of firepower per displacement. In otherwords, it's average.
The advantages are what Rock said.
PS: Yes... That's what I look for firepower per ton...
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 16, 2008, 07:29:21 PM
The only remarkable things about her are her seakeeping and the heaps of unnecessary light guns. Not to say that she's bad, just that in most respects, she's quite average.
heh that was what I was going for (the Seakeaping) I love that message
Quote from: Logi on September 16, 2008, 07:43:21 PM
Yesssss... The real Alaska went at 31.4kts. Alaska are good for their speed. That's something you don't have.
Not a remarkable amount of firepower per displacement. In otherwords, it's average.
The advantages are what Rock said.
PS: Yes... That's what I look for firepower per ton...
cant get 30kts+ (yet)
ok now this looks like somthing the NS might consider, fast as a thief (for our time period anyway) armors a bit light, but I kinda like it... (HELP DF IS TAKING OVER MY MIND)
USNSS Chetah, USNS Battlecruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)
Displacement:
24,000 t light; 25,206 t standard; 28,128 t normal; 30,466 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
720.00 ft / 700.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
219.46 m / 213.36 m x 28.04 m x 9.14 m
Armament:
8 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3 mounts), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1913 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
20 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (10x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1913 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 7,554 lbs / 3,426 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 280.00 ft / 85.34 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 26.10 ft / 7.96 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 11.0" / 279 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 79,580 shp / 59,366 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5,260 tons
Complement:
1,085 - 1,411
Cost:
£2.266 million / $9.065 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 944 tons, 3.4 %
Armour: 9,401 tons, 33.4 %
- Belts: 5,174 tons, 18.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 608 tons, 2.2 %
- Armament: 1,753 tons, 6.2 %
- Armour Deck: 1,666 tons, 5.9 %
- Conning Tower: 199 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,173 tons, 11.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,132 tons, 36.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,128 tons, 14.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.2 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
44,103 lbs / 20,005 Kg = 51.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 7.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 16.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 67 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.510
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.61 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.85 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Mid (70 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Stern: 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Average freeboard: 19.94 ft / 6.08 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 162.0 %
Waterplane Area: 45,023 Square feet or 4,183 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 160 lbs/sq ft or 783 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.27
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
[Jedi mind trick] Must reduce armor for even more speed... [Jedi mind trick] :P ;D
Nobody likes the British BCs and prefers the German ones, but if you look at it closely, it wasn't the lack or armor that killed the British or the extra armor that saved the Germans. It was cordite that killed the British and it was the poor British shells that saved the Germans. Also the reason so many BCs where lost (compared to BBs) was that the BCs saw that much more combat.
I think Fisher got it right, firepower and speed come first, armor is for the weak. ;D
Getting back to the ship, she looks decent but undergunned. Suggest adding something bigger to give the Dutch heartburn.
A balanced ship just doesn't feel 'Swiss' to me...
I like that better.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 17, 2008, 06:28:09 AM
I like that better.
thanks rock its either this or the Mackensen clone, so the choice is biger guns and more armor at less spd, or more spd lighter guns and armor.
Well, an compromise design, she is about in between the Dutch and the DKB in combat capabillity, but not convinced that is a good thing.
Quote from: Korpen on September 17, 2008, 07:36:06 AM
Well, an compromise design, she is about in between the Dutch and the DKB in combat capabillity, but not convinced that is a good thing.
HEH ya neither am I it acomplished the goal at the outset of making 28 knots, but im not realy sure that was a worthy goal...
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 17, 2008, 07:41:29 AM
Quote from: Korpen on September 17, 2008, 07:36:06 AM
Well, an compromise design, she is about in between the Dutch and the DKB in combat capabillity, but not convinced that is a good thing.
HEH ya neither am I it acomplished the goal at the outset of making 28 knots, but im not realy sure that was a worthy goal...
Al depends on what you want it for; I think she is a great ship for shooting up the Molktes, but you would want lager guns against Willheminas and Sharnhorsts.
Quote from: Korpen on September 17, 2008, 07:44:35 AM
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 17, 2008, 07:41:29 AM
Quote from: Korpen on September 17, 2008, 07:36:06 AM
Well, an compromise design, she is about in between the Dutch and the DKB in combat capabillity, but not convinced that is a good thing.
HEH ya neither am I it acomplished the goal at the outset of making 28 knots, but im not realy sure that was a worthy goal...
Al depends on what you want it for; I think she is a great ship for shooting up the Molktes, but you would want lager guns against Willheminas and Sharnhorsts.
think 6X14" would be enough? I can get them on it (just have to mess around with a few things) to go up to 8 though basicly I have to give up a knot.
14" version
USNSS Tiger, USNS Battlecruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)
Displacement:
23,900 t light; 25,216 t standard; 28,139 t normal; 30,477 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
720.00 ft / 700.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
219.46 m / 213.36 m x 28.04 m x 9.14 m
Armament:
6 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1913 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
20 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (10x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1913 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 8,874 lbs / 4,025 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 280.00 ft / 85.34 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 26.10 ft / 7.96 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 11.0" / 279 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 79,605 shp / 59,385 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5,261 tons
Complement:
1,086 - 1,412
Cost:
£2.414 million / $9.655 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,109 tons, 3.9 %
Armour: 8,860 tons, 31.5 %
- Belts: 5,174 tons, 18.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 608 tons, 2.2 %
- Armament: 1,212 tons, 4.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,666 tons, 5.9 %
- Conning Tower: 199 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,174 tons, 11.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,406 tons, 37.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,239 tons, 15.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.2 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
42,003 lbs / 19,052 Kg = 30.6 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 16.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.510
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.61 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.85 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Mid (70 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Stern: 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Average freeboard: 19.94 ft / 6.08 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 161.9 %
Waterplane Area: 45,031 Square feet or 4,184 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 165 lbs/sq ft or 804 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.34
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 17, 2008, 07:49:29 AM
think 6X14" would be enough? I can get them on it (just have to mess around with a few things) to go up to 8 though basicly I have to give up a knot.
Depends, think it is enough to gain the upper hand vs. Scharnhorst (8 vs. 6 30cm guns is not enough for that IMO). No matter what you will be outgunned vs. the latest Dutch ships, so then 8 x 356mm guns would most likely be better. But not if they cost you the speed you need vs. the DKB ships, as they are the greater threat.
Quote from: Korpen on September 17, 2008, 08:13:24 AM
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 17, 2008, 07:49:29 AM
think 6X14" would be enough? I can get them on it (just have to mess around with a few things) to go up to 8 though basicly I have to give up a knot.
Depends, think it is enough to gain the upper hand vs. Scharnhorst (8 vs. 6 30cm guns is not enough for that IMO). No matter what you will be outgunned vs. the latest Dutch ships, so then 8 x 356mm guns would most likely be better. But not if they cost you the speed you need vs. the DKB ships, as they are the greater threat.
I think the 14" version would destroy this DKB ship, its armor couldnt hold up to 14" fire (its questionable if it would hold up to 12" fire) http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=2548.msg27215#msg27215 I assume thats the DKD BC you were refering to
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 17, 2008, 08:56:35 AM
Quote from: Korpen on September 17, 2008, 08:13:24 AM
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 17, 2008, 07:49:29 AM
think 6X14" would be enough? I can get them on it (just have to mess around with a few things) to go up to 8 though basicly I have to give up a knot.
Depends, think it is enough to gain the upper hand vs. Scharnhorst (8 vs. 6 30cm guns is not enough for that IMO). No matter what you will be outgunned vs. the latest Dutch ships, so then 8 x 356mm guns would most likely be better. But not if they cost you the speed you need vs. the DKB ships, as they are the greater threat.
I think the 14" version would destroy this DKB ship, its armor couldnt hold up to 14" fire (its questionable if it would hold up to 12" fire) http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=2548.msg27215#msg27215 I assume thats the DKD BC you were refering to
No: http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=1218.msg10757#msg10757
I suspect new engines would give her a speed in the 26,5kts range.
Quote from: Korpen on September 17, 2008, 08:59:13 AM
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 17, 2008, 08:56:35 AM
Quote from: Korpen on September 17, 2008, 08:13:24 AM
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 17, 2008, 07:49:29 AM
think 6X14" would be enough? I can get them on it (just have to mess around with a few things) to go up to 8 though basicly I have to give up a knot.
Depends, think it is enough to gain the upper hand vs. Scharnhorst (8 vs. 6 30cm guns is not enough for that IMO). No matter what you will be outgunned vs. the latest Dutch ships, so then 8 x 356mm guns would most likely be better. But not if they cost you the speed you need vs. the DKB ships, as they are the greater threat.
I think the 14" version would destroy this DKB ship, its armor couldnt hold up to 14" fire (its questionable if it would hold up to 12" fire) http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=2548.msg27215#msg27215 I assume thats the DKD BC you were refering to
No: http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=1218.msg10757#msg10757
I suspect new engines would give her a speed in the 26,5kts range.
your proly about right, I hadnt looked for ships swampy built ^.^ I was looking for other new builds.
Small in kick:
Battlecruiser study, BCS BC laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)
Displacement:
18.380 t light; 19.355 t standard; 21.216 t normal; 22.704 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
720,62 ft / 716,86 ft x 75,46 ft x 26,25 ft (normal load)
219,65 m / 218,50 m x 23,00 m x 8,00 m
Armament:
6 - 13,78" / 350 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1.308,20lbs / 593,39kg shells, 1914 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
16 - 4,92" / 125 mm guns (8x2 guns), 59,59lbs / 27,03kg shells, 1914 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1914 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 8.810 lbs / 3.996 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 110
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9,84" / 250 mm 537,66 ft / 163,88 m 10,43 ft / 3,18 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 3,94" / 100 mm 537,66 ft / 163,88 m 8,01 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7,87" / 200 mm 3,94" / 100 mm 7,87" / 200 mm
2nd: 0,39" / 10 mm - -
3rd: 0,20" / 5 mm - -
- Armour deck: 1,97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 5,91" / 150 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 79.896 shp / 59.602 Kw = 28,45 kts
Range 7.000nm at 14,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3.349 tons
Complement:
878 - 1.142
Cost:
£2,564 million / $10,255 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1.101 tons, 5,2 %
Armour: 5.244 tons, 24,7 %
- Belts: 2.956 tons, 13,9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 850 tons, 4,0 %
- Armour Deck: 1.341 tons, 6,3 %
- Conning Tower: 98 tons, 0,5 %
Machinery: 3.186 tons, 15,0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8.500 tons, 40,1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.835 tons, 13,4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1,6 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
24.405 lbs / 11.070 Kg = 18,7 x 13,8 " / 350 mm shells or 2,4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
Metacentric height 4,3 ft / 1,3 m
Roll period: 15,3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 64 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,81
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,28
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,523
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26,77 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Forecastle (10 %): 18,73 ft / 5,71 m
- Mid (70 %): 18,73 ft / 5,71 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 18,73 ft / 5,71 m
- Stern: 18,73 ft / 5,71 m
- Average freeboard: 18,84 ft / 5,74 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89,9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149,6 %
Waterplane Area: 36.812 Square feet or 3.420 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 153 lbs/sq ft or 749 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,98
- Longitudinal: 1,17
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
The problem with the Swiss continuing their speed freak policy of being faster than the rest is not working. Mainly due to the DKB going the WWII way instead of the WWI one - making as fast ships as possible starting with S&G. This means that the NSN do not have the same freedom in deciding whether to engage or not.
So, IMO, the NSN could just select a different course with the change of power, and a different shipbuilding philosophy.
Quote from: P3D on September 17, 2008, 04:28:37 PM
The problem with the Swiss continuing their speed freak policy of being faster than the rest is not working. Mainly due to the DKB going the WWII way instead of the WWI one - making as fast ships as possible starting with S&G. This means that the NSN do not have the same freedom in deciding whether to engage or not.
So, IMO, the NSN could just select a different course with the change of power, and a different shipbuilding philosophy.
You are absolutly Corect, idk i would think I still need to be able to run with them though (otherwise the pesky retches just run away and live to raid another day)
I like the 14" design. It could use a few 6 inchers, and putting all your eggs in two baskets might not be a good idea, but she is definately Swiss.
Very fast, good armor (the Constitutions had decent armor for their period), and good guns. They are a match for anything in the Pacific with the exception of the newest Dutch BCs, and unlike other BCs, they actually stand a chance of defeating the Dutch ships.
Quote from: Desertfox on September 17, 2008, 11:05:52 PM
I like the 14" design. It could use a few 6 inchers, and putting all your eggs in two baskets might not be a good idea, but she is definately Swiss.
Very fast, good armor (the Constitutions had decent armor for their period), and good guns. They are a match for anything in the Pacific with the exception of the newest Dutch BCs, and unlike other BCs, they actually stand a chance of defeating the Dutch ships.
I rather like them to honestly, i may try a drawing on it today (when I have time). They outmach the curent DKB ships (built and proposed), and vs the dutch while outguned (admitedly), it would likley come down to luck, and crew skill.
my atempt to sim a G8 LOL (mostly a study in how to sim one opinions)
G8-12, New Switzerland Battle Cruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)
Displacement:
24,135 t light; 25,208 t standard; 28,285 t normal; 30,747 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
720.00 ft / 707.00 ft x 88.40 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
219.46 m / 215.49 m x 26.94 m x 9.14 m
Armament:
5 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2 mounts), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1913 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
3 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (1x3 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1913 Model
Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
on centreline amidships
16 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1913 Model
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
10 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 8,641 lbs / 3,919 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 425.00 ft / 129.54 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 282.00 ft / 85.95 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 425.00 ft / 129.54 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 425.00 ft / 129.54 m 25.52 ft / 7.78 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 12.0" / 305 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
3rd: 6.00" / 152 mm - -
- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 80,000 shp / 59,680 Kw = 27.03 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5,538 tons
Complement:
1,089 - 1,417
Cost:
£2.398 million / $9.594 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,080 tons, 3.8 %
Armour: 9,824 tons, 34.7 %
- Belts: 4,990 tons, 17.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 602 tons, 2.1 %
- Armament: 1,661 tons, 5.9 %
- Armour Deck: 2,372 tons, 8.4 %
- Conning Tower: 200 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,190 tons, 11.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,691 tons, 34.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,151 tons, 14.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.2 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
37,174 lbs / 16,862 Kg = 43.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 6.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 16.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.22
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.528
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.59 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Forecastle (40 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Quarterdeck (0 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Stern: 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 18.40 ft / 5.61 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119.6 %
Waterplane Area: 42,730 Square feet or 3,970 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 158 lbs/sq ft or 769 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.15
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
250 tons FC
25 tons Wireless
25 tons Flag Facilities
50 tons Reserved
Final on the BCs I plan to build next (and no they arnt geting 6" guns, id use 5" if I had one)
USNSS Inflexible (final), USNS Battlecruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)
Displacement:
23,800 t light; 24,857 t standard; 27,756 t normal; 30,075 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
719.00 ft / 700.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
219.15 m / 213.36 m x 28.04 m x 9.14 m
Armament:
6 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1913 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
20 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (10x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1913 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 8,874 lbs / 4,025 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 280.00 ft / 85.34 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 26.10 ft / 7.96 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 11.0" / 279 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 78,716 shp / 58,722 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5,218 tons
Complement:
1,074 - 1,397
Cost:
£2.405 million / $9.618 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,109 tons, 4.0 %
Armour: 8,846 tons, 31.9 %
- Belts: 5,173 tons, 18.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 608 tons, 2.2 %
- Armament: 1,212 tons, 4.4 %
- Armour Deck: 1,655 tons, 6.0 %
- Conning Tower: 198 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,139 tons, 11.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,356 tons, 37.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,956 tons, 14.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.3 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
41,085 lbs / 18,636 Kg = 29.9 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 16.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.503
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.61 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Mid (70 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Stern: 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Average freeboard: 19.78 ft / 6.03 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 162.7 %
Waterplane Area: 44,739 Square feet or 4,156 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 165 lbs/sq ft or 806 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.34
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Misc. Weight: 350 tons
250 tons FC
25 tons Wireless
25 tons Flag Facilities
25 tons Crew Comfort
25 tons Reserved
Nobbad.
However, with the deck mounted secondaries I'd reduce the upper belt extent and/or thickness.
Well they can probably take on Rohan's Battle Cruisers, as this would have a four knot speed advantage, thicker armor, size, and larger main guns.
Oddly, both of Rohan's Battle Cruiser designs throw more weight of shell than this design. So it is possile that the Rohirrim ships could beat the larger Swiss vessels through getting more hits more often verses the heavier, but fewer, hits from the Swiss vessels.
Now against Rohan's Battleships? I suppose the Battlecruisers would simply run away (with a 7 knot speed advantage) rather than be torn apart by more than twice their weight in shells while going up against 13-14 inches of armor.
Why go to twin deck mounts?
The truth, shrug cause I can LOL, the given reason will be somthing like useability against multiple targets, trainability, field of fire, somthing like that anyway.
1915 proposed fast Battleship
USNSS Lion, USNS Battlecruiser laid down 1915 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
28,800 t light; 30,173 t standard; 33,069 t normal; 35,386 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
750.00 ft / 731.00 ft x 101.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
228.60 m / 222.81 m x 30.78 m x 9.14 m
Armament:
8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1915 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
20 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (10x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1915 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1915 Model
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
on side ends, evenly spread
2 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
4 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns (2x2 guns), 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1915 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1915 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 12,492 lbs / 5,666 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 438.60 ft / 133.69 m 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 438.60 ft / 133.69 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 438.60 ft / 133.69 m 27.54 ft / 8.39 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 11.0" / 279 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
3rd: 6.00" / 152 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 87,661 shp / 65,395 Kw = 27.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5,213 tons
Complement:
1,225 - 1,593
Cost:
£4.039 million / $16.157 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,562 tons, 4.7 %
Armour: 10,765 tons, 32.6 %
- Belts: 5,747 tons, 17.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 670 tons, 2.0 %
- Armament: 2,267 tons, 6.9 %
- Armour Deck: 1,858 tons, 5.6 %
- Conning Tower: 222 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,266 tons, 9.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,858 tons, 38.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,269 tons, 12.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.1 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
48,289 lbs / 21,904 Kg = 35.2 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 7.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 6.1 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 17.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.32
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.523
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.24 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.04 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Mid (70 %): 23.00 ft / 7.01 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Stern: 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 20.86 ft / 6.36 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 167.9 %
Waterplane Area: 50,223 Square feet or 4,666 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 184 lbs/sq ft or 898 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.28
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
250 tons FC
25 tons Marconi
25 tons Flag Facilities
50 tons Radar
Armour inclined 10 degrees
one more to come
Proposal 2
USNSS Lion, USNS Battlecruiser laid down 1915 (Engine 1916)
Displacement:
29,299 t light; 30,761 t standard; 33,694 t normal; 36,041 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
750.00 ft / 731.00 ft x 99.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
228.60 m / 222.81 m x 30.18 m x 9.14 m
Armament:
9 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1915 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
20 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (10x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1915 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1915 Model
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
on side ends, evenly spread
2 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
4 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1915 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
20 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1915 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 13,868 lbs / 6,291 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 438.60 ft / 133.69 m 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 438.60 ft / 133.69 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 438.60 ft / 133.69 m 27.54 ft / 8.39 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 11.0" / 279 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
3rd: 6.00" / 152 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 89,161 shp / 66,514 Kw = 27.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5,280 tons
Complement:
1,243 - 1,616
Cost:
£4.286 million / $17.144 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,734 tons, 5.1 %
Armour: 10,673 tons, 31.7 %
- Belts: 5,742 tons, 17.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 670 tons, 2.0 %
- Armament: 2,179 tons, 6.5 %
- Armour Deck: 1,857 tons, 5.5 %
- Conning Tower: 225 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,322 tons, 9.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,186 tons, 39.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,395 tons, 13.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 385 tons, 1.1 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
46,567 lbs / 21,123 Kg = 33.9 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 5.9 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 17.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.31
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.543
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.38 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.04 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Mid (70 %): 23.00 ft / 7.01 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Stern: 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 20.86 ft / 6.36 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 165.3 %
Waterplane Area: 50,184 Square feet or 4,662 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 188 lbs/sq ft or 917 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.29
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
250 tons FC
25 tons Marconi
25 tons Flag Facilities
50 tons Radar
35 tons Reserved
Armour inclined 10 degrees
Opinions?