I think this started when Valles commented that his new ships were going to be significantly faster than the competition, and he was worried about out-ranging his forward bases.
In all innocence, I asked him why he didn't just make fast oilers and colliers to keep up with his new Long Legs platform.. and the rest was history.
After several discussions regarding it, and an interruption by dental surgery, I have signed up for Navalism.
I find the basic premise of Navalism to be quite intriguing, and the support software (Springsharp) wonderful toy. This will be my first entry into 'Sim' work, as such, though I have some experience with computer-assisted starship and battlemech design that should come in handy.
The only questions I have remaining are twofold - first (and most importantly), what is the expected frequency of HY in Real World Time?
Secondly, China is available - would I be eligible to step into Empress Longyu's delicate bound foot slippers, or would I be expected to slide into place behind the imposing moustache of Kaiser Wilhelm, or break new ground as the incredibly manly Ludwig III of Bavaria?
My personal preference in that matter is to take over the Middle Kingdom itself - I feel that a new foreign policy and a strong leader could revitalize that nation, securing it's borders and bringing it the peace and plentitude that it's people deserve.
Failing that, I would be very amenable to either the DKB or Bavaria.
As always, the moderators have the call on this, and regardless of their decision, I'm pleased to be here! Navalism is an exciting thing, I'm happy to be part of it!
Ahoj!
Wellcome aboard!
You can also be the White Flame Dancing on the Mounds of His Enemies, the Shah-in-Shah of Persia. Or the Moghul himself. Or the Grand Duke of Kiev.
The expected - and occasionaly acheived - frequency of HY reports is one per fortnight.
Any further help you need - just holler!
Borys
Howdy!
Welcome to Navalism, and sorry to hear about the dental surgery.
The ideal rate of progress here is one half-year per two weeks of real time. We have not done too well at attaining it, and now that a new war has broken out, we will most assuredly go slower. Hopefully, however, not too badly.
China is available, but there had been some concern that it was potentially too large and powerful as is. The other Mods and I would need to discuss whether or not it'd be better to pare China down to the equivalent of the major player powers.
DKB, Bavaria, New Switzerland, and Ukraine are all options; I had been pushing along DKB after its founding player left, so it's essentially a "turn-key" situation.
Drop me a line if you have any questions...
J
I wouldn't mind handing over China since I can't play the Middle Kingdom anymore (the old hands know the reasons). But Wiregeek, you'd better touch up on your knowledge of Chinese history. 8) Longyu is a Manchu and Manchu women's feet were never bound. The Empress-Dowager has a nice size 7 thank you very much.
If you need my files for reference on how it was played on the old forum and this one (I saved all of my stories), the boat archive (including what Springsharp files I have) and some helpful advice, feel free to ask. Use a personal message because I don't visit the forum that often anymore (although Maddox keeps me informed of important matters). The mods want to make the country smaller, I would like to be consulted on how to do this story-wise if we can (I may be able to have some time for this) and give you some input or ideas. (After all, we're talking my brain-child here.)
The Emperor is coming of age. Hmmm... ;D ;D ;D
Your input would certainly be welcomed...
Ahoj!
A North-South split is quite natural. The Huag-ho and the Yang-tze Valleys.
The North eats noodles and the people call themslves the Han.
The South eats rice and people call themslves the Tang.
Borys
Oh drat, it's been so long since I played here... forgot I changed the history since the old forum and the Manchus never reigned here. So Longyu does have a splendid pair of Golden Lotuses (bound feet) !!!
QuoteA North-South split is quite natural. The Huag-ho and the Yang-tze Valleys.
Which leaves me with quite a chunk of the Middle Kingdom left, and frees up the northeastern plains to follow their own destiny.. I'd argue for the inclusion of the Tibetan Plateau into the boundaries of the Greater Middle Kingdom, after the misguided provinces of the North and Northeast have departed from the golden light of the Heavenly Mandate...
QuoteOh drat, it's been so long since I played here...
Humanity is a very common failing... ;D
Ahoj!
Quote from: Phoenix on June 30, 2008, 11:30:50 AM
Oh drat, it's been so long since I played here... forgot I changed the history since the old forum and the Manchus never reigned here. So Longyu does have a splendid pair of Golden Lotuses (bound feet) !!!
Chinese men hailed the aphrodisiac like effects of the wiff of rotting flesh of bound feet!
Borys
Quote from: Wiregeek on June 30, 2008, 11:00:59 AM
My personal preference in that matter is to take over the Middle Kingdom itself - I feel that a new foreign policy and a strong leader could revitalize that nation, securing it's borders and bringing it the peace and plentitude that it's people deserve.
Failing that, I would be very amenable to either the DKB or Bavaria.
First: Welcome :)
Well, I for one would love to see a player taking up Bavaria, so I will make a sales pitch for it. :)
As some comments here indicate, playing the middle kingdom would require quite a bit of fiddling and world building. But the main "problem" I feel is that Asia does not really have allot of players in it, so there is a risk of isolation.
Bavaria on the other hand is the balance player of Europe (a continent were almost all countries have players); it has a large economy and a strategic positions that allows it allot of control over events. It also have some pretty unique strategic problems and possibilities, such as the fact that most of its overseas trade is conducted from other countries sea ports and therefore have very little need of sea lane protection but great need for army co-operation.
But the main reason in my mind is that it would help to "fill up" Europe, giving much more scope for interesting player interactions. One problem we have had in my mind is that there have basically only been two-three players active in every area of operations (such as Asia, Europe and the Americas), and that that limits everyone's diplomatic options (and if one of those leave, the area goes dead).
Lederhosen is not required to play Bavaria. ;)
Ahoj!
Bavaria has a slight drawback of being a bit squeezed between the Baltic Confederation, France, Italy and the Habsburgs. Geography brings about either a very landbased policy, limited to Centre-West Europe and the Med. So, occasions for player-vs-player itneractio are plentiful, but their scope limited. IMO.
The DKB on the other hand is a Power with much more far-flung (and larger) resources. It has OTL New Zealand, North Vietnam, part of Niu Guini, some Indian Ocean Islands (with the picturesque port of Vogeldreck), Kenya and Aden. Here your ineracting players will be fewer, but stil quite a few:
- the Nederlands (Nederlands Ost Indien);
- Italy - various holdings in East Africa;
- the malevolent, scheming Elders of Zion;
- the powerful Republic of Orange, a mix of Dutch Boers and Hungarian Calvinists;
Looking the other way, across the Pacific, you have, clockwise:
- the Empire of Japan, inactive unless proded;
- the ageless Empire of the Eorlingas, the Riddermarks, also know as Rohan;
- the dynamic republic of the Normanns who wished to be free from te opression of kings, the CSA;
- the dynastic republic of Gra Colombia, one of the greatest Powers;
- the Republic of Peru, quietly building its mighty in the fog kissed sands in the shadow of the Andes;
- the enigmatic Maori flexing their muscles under their glossy, swarthy skins;
- the Philippines, enjoying prosperity and peace as part of the Iberian Empire;
Am I waxing lyrical?
:D
Just as outlined by Korpen, the Han or the Tang wouldbe a bit of a backwater ATM. But if you want to camp for 8-10 years and build afleet, it might be a good choice.
I shamelessly admit that for my personal reasons, I'd try to sell Ucraina to you (which here stretches between the Black and Baltic Sea).
IMO DKB is the most attractive of free countries.
Borys
Ahoj!
I almost forgot - the DKB would also interact with the Baltic Confedaration, which has holdings on the Indian Subcontinent. And the 800lbs Gorilla of N-Verse, Glorious France.
Borys
I must admit to the attractions of both Bavaria and the DKB, but do any of them have women with mutilated feet? I think not!
Currently leaning towards Southern China, or Tang China, but the DKB is a strong secondary.
Awaiting Moderator input, of course.
Quote- the Empire of Japan, inactive unless proded;
"- the Empire of Japan, player's mind blocked and lacking ideas" sounds a bit better to me. :D
Quote from: Borys on June 30, 2008, 02:26:38 PM
Ahoj!
Bavaria has a slight drawback of being a bit squeezed between the Baltic Confederation, France, Italy and the Habsburgs. Geography brings about either a very landbased policy, limited to Centre-West Europe and the Med. So, occasions for player-vs-player itneractio are plentiful, but their scope limited. IMO.
In the end that depends on what ones ambitions are. The fact Bavaria is mainly a land power does have the side-effect of giving a player total freedom in how to build a navy. Considering the situation in Europe, Bavaria is in a position to yield enormous influence there.
The DKB is a much more stand-offish country, it is less involved in any particular area, and deal with other states on a very arms-length basis. One can say that Bavaria plays in a higher stakes environment. It also got much less baggage to drag along then the DKB, giving a player much more scope to creat his /her own destiny.
QuoteI shamelessly admit that for my personal reasons, I'd try to sell Ucraina to you (which here stretches between the Black and Baltic Sea).
I would also like to see a player Ukraine, but for very much the opposite reason. :)
Hey Borys! You apperantly forgot the Dark Empire... better know as New Switzerland! Of course, using the clock system, it doesn't show up being the hub!
Welcome aboard Wiregeek.
Made the good choice...choose quietly...
Jef ;)
Hey, Wire! Welcome! Great to see you!
I'd be entirely in favor of Tang China even if it weren't the choice most likely to work to my own advantage. Both Navalism and the real world already have a great plentitude of rich white Europeans arguing about who gets to get richer at whose expense. It's been done, it's boring.
China, as an outward looking world player? We've never seen that. Far more interesting.
But, y'know, I'll admit that I'm not a neutral observer. ^_^
Welcome aboard from another newcomer.
I turned down China for the reason that if they kept it totaly intact as a single nation I was looking at 10-15 years of isolation while I built a huge Industial Nation and then would explode onto the map as the France of the East. If the Moderators intend to devide China into a Northern and Southern China.... then Have fun with it if its your preference.
I think all the DKB, Bavaria, Russia, choices are also equaly interesting. Espeically now that a huge Balkans War is breaking out.
I'd note that if you want to get into the deep water fast, DKB and the Swiss are the best choice. They being inactive leads to a virtual power vacuum* in the IO/Pacific region.
*not real, but it seems like such to some people ;)
Ahoj!
Quote from: Walter on June 30, 2008, 03:37:43 PM
Quote- the Empire of Japan, inactive unless proded;
"- the Empire of Japan, player's mind blocked and lacking ideas" sounds a bit better to me. :D
OK. Your version sounds better :)
Quote from: Desertfox on June 30, 2008, 03:49:01 PM
Hey Borys! You apperantly forgot the Dark Empire... better know as New Switzerland! Of course, using the clock system, it doesn't show up being the hub!
Oh, no, I did not forget the Evil! NeoSwiss. I was listing player nations.
Quote from: Valles on June 30, 2008, 06:27:25 PM
I'd be entirely in favor of Tang China even if it weren't the choice most likely to work to my own advantage. Both Navalism and the real world already have a great plentitude of rich white Europeans arguing about who gets to get richer at whose expense. It's been done, it's boring.
China, as an outward looking world player? We've never seen that. Far more interesting.
Yes, Valles, I agree. Seafaring Tang - IMO more likely than seafaring Han - would add spice to the game.
Borys
Ah! My bad!
I personally prefer the DKB, as with both Egypt and Italy filled, only the DKB's African possesion remain unfilled.
An awakening dragon, bad tidings brings...
Quote from: Valles on June 30, 2008, 06:27:25 PM
China, as an outward looking world player? We've never seen that. Far more interesting.
The thing that worries me with that scenarios is the "were did they come from?".
The middle kingdom here have been isolationistic and inwards-looking, if one all of a sudden get a expansive neighbour it has some very significant effects on the choices one have made over the last few years. Even more so when one is involved elsewhere (something one might not have done if things are brewing in ones largest Asian neighbour).
The is the reason I am generally against any major re-writings of past game history.
Not saying it cannot be done, but I think one have to be very cautious in creating a "new" middle kingdom.
Ahoj!
I think you worry too much, Korpen. An expansionist demi-China is easily explained by the southern guys being in power. And with half of China coming under new management in 2/1912 or 1/1913, I see no re-writing of past history.
This is of course if China is indeed split.
Borys
I suggest that China go into civil war, with the new player as one of the factions. Its in effect scripted to come out one way BUT it will give nations near by a chance to react and get involved if they so wish. Also it gives other people something to do while me and Borys slow down the game with our war.
Michael
QuoteThe middle kingdom here have been isolationistic and inwards-looking, if one all of a sudden get a expansive neighbour it has some very significant effects on the choices one have made over the last few years.
Who says it's gonna get all imperialistic and expansionist? *Evil Grin*
Who says it isn't?
QuoteI suggest that China go into civil war, with the new player as one of the factions. Its in effect scripted to come out one way BUT it will give nations near by a chance to react and get involved if they so wish.
To borrow the slang of the "Lol internet", 'This'.
Short form of 'I agree with this comment, and wish to wholeheartedly support it' Makes it difficult to end up at my desired relationship status with Han China, but you can't have everything.. where would you put it?
A Chinese Civil War shouldn't be too hard to cook up. NS was actively trying to spark one up a few years back, but got nowhere. Also Japan and the DKB are actuvely involved in China and there was an affair between both countries a while back over the ownership of Taiwan. I can see quite a bit of potential there.
Japan backing the Northern Faction, DKB backing the Southern Faction, and NS to busy with internal problems to interfere (but gloating over the fact that twice already, NS enemies have shredded themselves in Civil War.).
Quote from: Borys on July 01, 2008, 12:45:16 AM
Ahoj!
I think you worry too much, Korpen. An expansionist demi-China is easily explained by the southern guys being in power. And with half of China coming under new management in 2/1912 or 1/1913, I see no re-writing of past history.
Better to worry now then to be sorry later. I happily take the role as mister nay-sayer in this matter, as that reduce the risk of people running away with something "cool", and only ending up with silly. That is why I think a re-wrist of the MK requires some thinking to avoid all people around them suddenly getting a new neighbour without the chance to do something about it. If forgine involvement is minor, one need a good reason as to why it is minor.
Civil war as a vehicle for a 'player level' China rather than a 'mod level' one?
I like this plan! I'm proud to be a part of it! Let's go!
QuoteAlso Japan and the DKB are actuvely involved in China and there was an affair between both countries a while back over the ownership of Taiwan.
Only in your imaginations. :D
If I remember things correctly, due to certain NS stubborness, it was more likely to end up in Dutch hands but they turned it down as they were determined to get what they wanted. The DKB had no problems with Japan getting Hainan and Taiwan as they could not fulfill their original promise of certain NS territories they could not capture.
QuoteJapan backing the Northern Faction, DKB backing the Southern Faction, and NS to busy with internal problems to interfere (but gloating over the fact that twice already, NS enemies have shredded themselves in Civil War.).
Not likely. Japan has good relations with the DKB and is more likely to end up between the two sides, trying to get them back together again. In the end Japan would be more there to help out the civilians who become a victim of such a civil war the best way they can though.
Ahoj!
However, the Middle Kingdom had issues with Japan getting the Islands. And as there were Middle Kingdom troops on them, it was the Celestial Dragon who had final say. And, if I remember correctly, the Dragon's wish was for the Most Faithful Vassal, Blanenibul, to administer those Islands in her name.
To my surprise these islands are in the Japanese budget. I must have really missed a lot when I went through my withdrawal phase.
Borys
From The Mithlond Conference thread...
QuoteThe Middle Kingdom considers itself not friendly concerning New Swiss.
But can't bring war at the NS doorstep, due the defensive structure of the Fleet.
The opportunty given by the pacific war, to eradicate the balefull demonic influences of the New Swiss on the 2 islands of Hainan and Taiwan wasn't to be wasted. The grant of these 2 islands to Japan is a way to show continued support to the worthy Japanese cause.
Also I am not sure how I should read the "the Dragon's wish was for the Most Faithful Vassal, Blanenibul, to administer those Islands in her name." but but to me that looks like the Islands would end up in
MK hands which goes against points 1 and 2 of the Peace Treaty which clearly states that those two island are to be "ceded to a member of the Alliance, other than the Middle Kingdom."
Ahoj!
Blame my flowerly language :D
Administer in her Name = Cede to Member of the Alliance
Borys
Speak not of Flowers!!! Otherwise I shall end up like this fellow!
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/53/Jokerkillingjoke.png)
;D
Welcome aboard! Sorry I missed this thread earlier, couple painfully busy days at work.
A civil war is a good idea. There is this young general lurking about you know... someone who, in this universe, is called by the name Jiang Zhiqing but whom, in another one, is better known as.. Chiang Kai-shek.
(A peculiar thing about Chinese names: Zhiqing was not his real original name as, in fact, few Chinese use their actual official name they get at birth, but it was the name he chose when he went to school and by which he was known until 1912. And the thing about spelling... oh bother...)
The Empress-Dowager has met him on January 8th 1908. He made a most favourable impression on her. I wonder if the opposite is true.
I am happy with whatever outcome makes the other players happy. If no civil war is done, thats call with my I just suggested it as I figured it would give the new player the widest possible room to manuver and to rebuild his nation as he see's fit. While also cutting china down to size.
If a civil war were to occur Iberia would for two reasons only minorly involved.
1) The Balkan War
2) While in the area Japan holds all the islands between the Philippines. Iberia might do something along the lines of seek to take in some of the displaced; if anything like historic the Philippines will have more than a minor number of ethnic Chiness already in the large cities.
Michael
Who remembers the old saying about War being a combination for two Chinese Symbols those of Oportunity and Danger.
Now that being said an having confirmed that I donot have an possesions in the Pacific which helps with my plan not to get involved in a land war in Asia.
I think a short civil war is not a bad idea as long as care is taken.
Has the initiation of a Player-led China fallen through? Been sidelined by the Ottoman Partition? Waiting on Wire?
I had hoped the other Mods might be able to see this through while I deal with the war. This has not yet come to pass, apparently, so I will see if I can do something this week.
My apologies to Wiregeek; hopefully, he's still interested.
No distracting the GM!!!
If no one else is able to pick up the ball I am willing to help out... What needs to be done and do we have two players actually?
According to his profile:
QuoteLast Active: July 08, 2008, 13:26:06
He hasn't been on in almost a month. So I wouldn't get your panties in a bunch about rushing to fix MK.
I spoke with Wire in CoH just a few minutes ago; he's interested, but currently swamped by work.