www.navalism.org

Main Archive => Navalism 3 Armed Forces => Armed Forces => New Ship Designs => Topic started by: Sachmle on June 26, 2008, 08:39:12 AM

Title: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Sachmle on June 26, 2008, 08:39:12 AM
Trituradora, NUS Battleship laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd42/Sachmle/Trituradora11.jpg)
Image based on parts by Wes Wilson, modified by me.
Bonus *nothing* for whoever can guess what historical BB I modeled her after.

Displacement:
   22,000 t light; 23,375 t standard; 24,864 t normal; 26,055 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 555.00 ft x 92.90 ft x 29.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.16 m x 28.32 m  x 8.84 m

Armament:
      10 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (5x2 guns), 1,250.00lbs / 566.99kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      14 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     14 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      6 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward
   Weight of broadside 14,080 lbs / 6,387 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   366.00 ft / 111.56 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   189.00 ft / 57.61 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   366.00 ft / 111.56 m   33.00 ft / 10.06 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      11.0" / 279 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 26,278 shp / 19,604 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,681 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   989 - 1,287

Cost:
   £3.055 million / $12.220 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,751 tons, 7.0 %
   Armour: 9,464 tons, 38.1 %
      - Belts: 3,504 tons, 14.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 670 tons, 2.7 %
      - Armament: 2,668 tons, 10.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,401 tons, 9.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 220 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,141 tons, 4.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,250 tons, 37.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,864 tons, 11.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 395 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     31,747 lbs / 14,400 Kg = 25.8 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 5.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.70
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.40

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.582
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.97 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.56 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 6.35 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Forecastle (17 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Quarterdeck (13 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Stern:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 37,080 Square feet or 3,445 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 181 lbs/sq ft or 884 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.62
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250t F/C
25t W/T
20t 20 18" Torpedoes

Now I just have to figure out how to afford it. I'll have the Tech by 2HY/1913 at the earliest, 1HY1914 at the latest, so that's not the problem, it's that 5-5.5BP/HY problem. Anybody have extra BP, a type 2 dock/slip, and an interest in $$?
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: The Rock Doctor on June 26, 2008, 08:57:57 AM
I'd reckon it's 4.258 BP per half-year if evenly spread over the life of construction.

I'll consult my spreadsheet tonight to see what GC's BP situation looks like, but am not optimistic that I could dig up that much.  Finding a slip to build on wouldn't be a problem, though.
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Jefgte on June 26, 2008, 09:27:12 AM
Nice BB, Well balanced

How many HY to built this Ship?

Actualy in my Board program, I have a 170m slipway at Callao free from 1914H1 to 1916H2 - 6xHY in all.


Jef  ;)
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: The Rock Doctor on June 26, 2008, 09:32:59 AM
Thirty-one months:  five half-years and a month.
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: ledeper on June 26, 2008, 09:34:11 AM
Quote from: Jefgte on June 26, 2008, 09:27:12 AM
Nice BB, Well balanced
How many HY to built this Ship?

22 months+9months=31 months=5 HY
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Jefgte on June 26, 2008, 09:52:00 AM
He could take more time...
6HY or 7HY & built regulary a BB.
With 8HY, He could built other warships in parallel.


Jef  ;)
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Valles on June 26, 2008, 02:34:21 PM
Niiiiiiice. I'd try to identify the OTL counterpart, but I've spend so much time looking at and thinking about Cross Mirage that she's the only thing that comes to mind with that layout.
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Korpen on June 26, 2008, 02:37:37 PM
She does remind me a bit of HMS Canada.
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Sachmle on June 27, 2008, 07:52:41 AM
Here's the full view w/ the hull and full depth of the belts.
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd42/Sachmle/trituradoraComplete.jpg)
Image based on parts by Wes Wilson, modified by me.

Any more guesses on the origin of the idea/basis for the layout? Here's a hint: She would have been built on the Atlantic seaboard in the 1910's.
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Jefgte on June 27, 2008, 08:07:51 AM
That's realy a nice BB


Jef  ;)
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Sachmle on June 27, 2008, 08:23:23 AM
Slightly updated SS Report w/ the belt extended 2' fore and aft to extend slightly beyond the "A" and "Y" turrets. Also the TDS is a little shorter, without lowering the "Torpedo hits to sink" value. I increase the amount of oil fuel as well to 40% from 10%. For those of you wondering why I went back to partial coal firing the answer is simple, I only get oil from 1 country, and that country wasn't terribly happy w/ The Southern Cross Alliance. (At least the former player wasn't, don't know what the new guy will think.)

Trituradora, NUS Battleship laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd42/Sachmle/TrituradoraComplete1.jpg)
Image based on parts by Wes Wilson, modified by me.
Displacement:
   21,885 t light; 23,254 t standard; 24,593 t normal; 25,664 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 555.00 ft x 92.50 ft x 29.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.16 m x 28.19 m  x 8.84 m

Armament:
      10 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (5x2 guns), 1,250.00lbs / 566.99kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      14 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     14 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      6 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward
   Weight of broadside 14,080 lbs / 6,387 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   370.00 ft / 112.78 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   185.00 ft / 56.39 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   370.00 ft / 112.78 m   31.00 ft / 9.45 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      11.0" / 279 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 26,057 shp / 19,439 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,409 tons (60% coal)

Complement:
   981 - 1,276

Cost:
   £3.042 million / $12.170 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,751 tons, 7.1 %
   Armour: 9,423 tons, 38.3 %
      - Belts: 3,518 tons, 14.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 637 tons, 2.6 %
      - Armament: 2,668 tons, 10.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,382 tons, 9.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 219 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,099 tons, 4.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,217 tons, 37.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,708 tons, 11.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 395 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     31,336 lbs / 14,214 Kg = 25.5 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 5.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.70
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.40

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.578
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.56 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 6.35 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Forecastle (17 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Quarterdeck (13 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Stern:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 36,787 Square feet or 3,418 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 181 lbs/sq ft or 886 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.63
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250t F/C
25t W/T
20t 20 18" Torpedoes
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: The Rock Doctor on June 27, 2008, 08:39:31 AM
Partial use of coal is reasonable but bear in mind that you're now allied to another nation with growing petroleum exports...
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Valles on June 27, 2008, 09:21:31 AM
You could also try building a native coal liquification industry, as I've done.
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: ctwaterman on June 27, 2008, 09:43:38 AM
I Like the BB Nice design.

Hmmm... I will have to go read that thread on Oil because unless It gets found in Libya - Italian North Africa/Tunisia much sooner then in real life I am surely out of luck.... Wonders if Romania sells cheap and if I can get ships their now with the war going on.....
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Borys on June 27, 2008, 10:58:44 AM
Ahoj!
Libyan oil - I'm afraid the tech to get it out of the ground is 1950s like.
I produce some 7M barrels a year.
Borys
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Sachmle on June 30, 2008, 02:57:58 AM
Got to thinking that the Tripods made her look too modern, so here's how she'll look at completion. Decided that a 3rd boiler room was needed due to the size of coal-fired boiler back then. Eventually she'll get a refit someday (Like in the 1920s) and get all oil-fired and newer smaller boilers which will eliminate that aft boiler room and the 3rd funnel. Anyway, I present UNS Trituradora.

(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd42/Sachmle/Trituradoraasbuilt.jpg)
Image based on parts by Wes Wilson, modified by me.
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Borys on June 30, 2008, 03:12:29 AM
Ahoj!
There is a wiff of HSM Canada about the two funnel design.
Rhe third funnel makes it  more like the SMS Koenig.

Borys
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Sachmle on June 30, 2008, 04:45:53 AM
And while those are both attractive ships in my mind, they both have a raised forecastle and the casemates are deck level. Trituradora has no raised forecastle and the casemates are in hullmounts.

Clue #2: Think the other side of the Atlantic.
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Jefgte on June 30, 2008, 07:22:25 AM
I ''ll made a hard welcome to this powerful & nice battleship at anchorage Camino del Yeso if, however, during its long shakedown cruise, he comes up to Autofagasta.


Jef ;)
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Sachmle on June 30, 2008, 07:36:17 AM
Why most certainly. Once she gets built and starts sea trials (around March 1917), if no ones shooting at me I'll be happy to pay port calls.
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Sachmle on July 06, 2008, 06:47:45 AM
Another redo. I think (hope) this is my last brainstorm on this one. The original was supposed to be a USS New York clone, this one is supposed to look like SMS König.
Trituradora, NUS Battleship laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd42/Sachmle/NNUTrituradoraClassBattleship.jpg)
Image based on parts by Wes Wilson, modified by me.

Displacement:
   22,000 t light; 23,382 t standard; 25,249 t normal; 26,743 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 28.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 28.04 m  x 8.53 m

Armament:
      10 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (5x2 guns), 1,250.00lbs / 566.99kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      14 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     14 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      6 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward
   Weight of broadside 14,080 lbs / 6,387 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   337.00 ft / 102.72 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   175.00 ft / 53.34 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     45.00 ft / 13.72 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 93 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   337.00 ft / 102.72 m   36.00 ft / 10.97 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 26,812 shp / 20,002 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,360 tons (60% coal)

Complement:
   1,000 - 1,301

Cost:
   £3.053 million / $12.213 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,751 tons, 6.9 %
   Armour: 9,606 tons, 38.0 %
      - Belts: 3,292 tons, 13.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 673 tons, 2.7 %
      - Armament: 2,955 tons, 11.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,463 tons, 9.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 223 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,131 tons, 4.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,118 tons, 36.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,249 tons, 12.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 395 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     31,528 lbs / 14,301 Kg = 25.6 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 5.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.62
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.34

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.616
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.05 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -28.45 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Mid (69 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.20 ft / 5.24 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 38,039 Square feet or 3,534 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 177 lbs/sq ft or 865 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.44
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250t F/C
25t W/T
20t 20 18" Torpedoes
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Borys on July 06, 2008, 07:06:53 AM
Ahoj!
I was just pursuing a red herring that she looked like Lexington :)
Nice ship.
As I have 22K tones Bs myself, it was interesting to look at what trade offs you made.

My ships are 2 knots faster, a bit better armoured, and slightly better fire platforms.
Your ship has a bigger punch (two MG more), and probably has the intangible benefits of superfiring.

But there is not much to divide the two.

Borys
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Sachmle on July 06, 2008, 08:14:46 AM
OK this is the final, final version. I was thinking about how SS thinks of decks and turrets and decided to drop the forecastle and go w/ this. Now I have NO IDEA if she looks like anything else. Comments please.

Trituradora, NUS Battleship laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd42/Sachmle/TrituradoraFinalversion.jpg)
Image based on parts by Wes Wilson, modified by me.

Displacement:
   22,000 t light; 23,368 t standard; 25,233 t normal; 26,725 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 94.00 ft x 28.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 28.65 m  x 8.53 m

Armament:
      10 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (5x2 guns), 1,250.00lbs / 566.99kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 13,880 lbs / 6,296 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   339.00 ft / 103.33 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   202.00 ft / 61.57 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     16.00 ft / 4.88 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   337.00 ft / 102.72 m   32.00 ft / 9.75 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm
   4th:   4.00" / 102 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 26,757 shp / 19,961 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,357 tons (60% coal)

Complement:
   1,000 - 1,301

Cost:
   £3.024 million / $12.096 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,724 tons, 6.8 %
   Armour: 9,499 tons, 37.6 %
      - Belts: 3,221 tons, 12.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 599 tons, 2.4 %
      - Armament: 2,972 tons, 11.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,485 tons, 9.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 222 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,128 tons, 4.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,254 tons, 36.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,233 tons, 12.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 395 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     32,000 lbs / 14,515 Kg = 26.0 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 5.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.602
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.93 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m (17.00 ft / 5.18 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.67 ft / 5.08 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 38,380 Square feet or 3,566 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 180 lbs/sq ft or 880 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.43
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250t F/C
25t W/T
20t 20 18" Torpedoes
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Sachmle on July 06, 2008, 08:33:45 AM
I lied, sorry. I just can't stop tweaking her. I lengthened the main belt a few feet and added 1" to it at the expense of .5" of deck armor. I also lengthened the end belt slightly, so here's the version to be built as of 1030 hrs EST on July 6th, 2008. ;)

Trituradora, NUS Battleship laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd42/Sachmle/Trituradorabuildversion.jpg)
Image based on parts by Wes Wilson, modified by me.
Displacement:
   22,000 t light; 23,368 t standard; 25,233 t normal; 26,725 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 94.00 ft x 28.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 28.65 m  x 8.53 m

Armament:
      10 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (5x2 guns), 1,250.00lbs / 566.99kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 13,880 lbs / 6,296 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   345.00 ft / 105.16 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   205.00 ft / 62.48 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     7.00 ft / 2.13 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   337.00 ft / 102.72 m   36.00 ft / 10.97 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm
   4th:   4.00" / 102 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 26,757 shp / 19,961 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,357 tons (60% coal)

Complement:
   1,000 - 1,301

Cost:
   £3.024 million / $12.096 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,724 tons, 6.8 %
   Armour: 9,508 tons, 37.7 %
      - Belts: 3,510 tons, 13.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 673 tons, 2.7 %
      - Armament: 2,972 tons, 11.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,130 tons, 8.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 222 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,128 tons, 4.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,245 tons, 36.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,233 tons, 12.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 395 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     31,982 lbs / 14,507 Kg = 26.0 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 5.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.602
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.93 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m (17.00 ft / 5.18 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.67 ft / 5.08 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 38,380 Square feet or 3,566 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 180 lbs/sq ft or 879 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.42
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250t F/C
25t W/T
20t 20 18" Torpedoes
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Borys on July 06, 2008, 08:54:44 AM
Getting better and better :)
Borys
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Valles on July 06, 2008, 05:36:50 PM
With that layout, observers in Navalism!Earth are going to be absolutely convinced that Cross Mirage is just an inflated Trituradora clone.

Which thought amuses me a good deal. ^_^

For Tri herself, I think she's an excellent design, sturdy, practical, and well-balanced. Not, perhaps, what I'd call 'perfect', but every point I might differ on is essentially a matter of taste and practice; that is, for a naval doctrine which assumes relatively short shooting ranges and that the compartmentalization issues brought on by torpedo tubes are worth it, she's perfect. Even for those who don't, she's an excellent return on her cost.
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Jefgte on July 07, 2008, 09:25:33 AM
Well balanced BB & nice drawing.


Jef  ;)
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Sachmle on July 14, 2008, 09:52:24 AM
Here is another design concept for this ship class.

BB1914v8, Naciones Unidas de Suramerica Battleship laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd42/Sachmle/bb1914v8.jpg)
Image based on parts by Wes Wilson, modified by me.
Displacement:
   22,000 t light; 23,246 t standard; 25,167 t normal; 26,704 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 98.00 ft x 28.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 29.87 m  x 8.53 m

Armament:
      8 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,250.00lbs / 566.99kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      14 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      6 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 11,820 lbs / 5,361 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   362.00 ft / 110.34 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   195.00 ft / 59.44 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   8.00" / 203 mm   362.00 ft / 110.34 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   362.00 ft / 110.34 m   29.00 ft / 8.84 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 26,617 shp / 19,856 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,457 tons (70% coal)

Complement:
   998 - 1,298

Cost:
   £2.759 million / $11.036 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,475 tons, 5.9 %
   Armour: 10,107 tons, 40.2 %
      - Belts: 4,705 tons, 18.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 583 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armament: 2,393 tons, 9.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,167 tons, 8.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 259 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,133 tons, 4.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,984 tons, 35.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,167 tons, 12.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     36,038 lbs / 16,346 Kg = 29.3 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 6.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 17.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.31

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.576
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.68 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -2.00 ft / -0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.28 ft / 4.96 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 39,047 Square feet or 3,628 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 175 lbs/sq ft or 853 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.46
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Borys on July 14, 2008, 01:40:39 PM
Ahoj!
The KKK would be glad to have it.
But it also shows the penalty of superfiring - the Juan de Austria class, otherwise identical, has 1,50 seakeeping.
Borys
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Jefgte on July 15, 2008, 08:05:53 AM
5T2x343 are better than 4T2x343...


Jef  ;)
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Sachmle on July 15, 2008, 11:04:45 AM
Quote from: Jefgte on July 15, 2008, 08:05:53 AM
5T2x343 are better than 4T2x343...


Jef  ;)

True, but as range, even w/ FC is still only in the 10-12kyd area I'll trade 2 343mm for the extra 2 152mm, 8 extra 102mm, the 8" upper belt, and the longer main belt. ;)
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Sachmle on July 18, 2008, 05:07:01 AM
Which is better?
5x2x13.5"/L40
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   21,400 t light; 22,756 t standard; 24,675 t normal; 26,210 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 96.00 ft x 29.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 29.26 m  x 8.84 m

Armament:
      10 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (5x2 guns), 1,250.00lbs / 566.99kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward
     10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 13,860 lbs / 6,287 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   367.00 ft / 111.86 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   8.00" / 203 mm   190.00 ft / 57.91 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 26,009 shp / 19,403 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,455 tons (75% coal)

Complement:
   983 - 1,279

Cost:
   £2.991 million / $11.965 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,721 tons, 7.0 %
   Armour: 8,521 tons, 34.5 %
      - Belts: 3,771 tons, 15.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2,794 tons, 11.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,737 tons, 7.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 219 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,113 tons, 4.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,745 tons, 39.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,275 tons, 13.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     34,090 lbs / 15,463 Kg = 27.7 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 3.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 17.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 67 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.72
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.56

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.557
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -2.00 ft / -0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Stern:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 37,561 Square feet or 3,490 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 186 lbs/sq ft or 910 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.91
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

__________________________________________________________________
Or 6x2x12"/L45
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   21,150 t light; 22,504 t standard; 24,409 t normal; 25,933 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 96.00 ft x 29.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 29.26 m  x 8.84 m

Armament:
      12 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (6x2 guns), 1,045.00lbs / 474.00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
      10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward
     10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 13,900 lbs / 6,305 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   367.00 ft / 111.86 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   8.00" / 203 mm   190.00 ft / 57.91 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 25,787 shp / 19,237 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,430 tons (75% coal)

Complement:
   976 - 1,269

Cost:
   £2.720 million / $10.880 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,479 tons, 6.1 %
   Armour: 8,656 tons, 35.5 %
      - Belts: 3,769 tons, 15.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2,942 tons, 12.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,727 tons, 7.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 218 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,103 tons, 4.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,612 tons, 39.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,259 tons, 13.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     37,094 lbs / 16,826 Kg = 42.9 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 4.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 64 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.73
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.57

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.551
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -2.00 ft / -0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Stern:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 64.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 37,350 Square feet or 3,470 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 185 lbs/sq ft or 902 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.92
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

BigGun gives the 12"/L45 12.28" of penetration @ 10kyd, while the 13.5"/L40 only gets 12.12" @ same range.
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Jefgte on July 18, 2008, 06:11:53 AM
Sachmle wrote:
"BigGun gives the 12"/L45 12.28" of penetration @ 10kyd, while the 13.5"/L40 only gets 12.12" @ same range."


& your belt is only 12" ...!



Jef  ;)
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: The Rock Doctor on July 18, 2008, 06:35:15 AM
If the penetration is essentially similar, whatever's on the inside is going to get trashed regardless of shell size.  I'd go with the more numerous 12" guns, then.
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Borys on July 18, 2008, 08:55:35 AM
Ahoj!
I think my Juan de Austria is better than either.
The 5x2x13,5" version is IMO better, as long as it fights not at parallel lines, but at angles, as to increase relative Main Belt thickness.
I'd cut End Belts down to 4", and use the gained weight either on Turret Faces (13") , or on a 4"-5" Upper Belt, some 7'.

Borys
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Sachmle on July 18, 2008, 02:36:12 PM
Increased main belt, turret face and barbette thickness, and added an upper belt and a TDS. Lowered end belt thickness and of course added weight.

6x2x12"/L45, Naciones Unidas Battleship laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   22,000 t light; 23,372 t standard; 25,318 t normal; 26,875 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 94.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 28.65 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      12 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (6x2 guns), 1,045.00lbs / 474.00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
      10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward
     10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 13,900 lbs / 6,305 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   362.00 ft / 110.34 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   195.00 ft / 59.44 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   362.00 ft / 110.34 m   6.00 ft / 1.83 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   362.00 ft / 110.34 m   28.00 ft / 8.53 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 26,378 shp / 19,678 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,503 tons (75% coal)

Complement:
   1,003 - 1,304

Cost:
   £2.762 million / $11.049 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,479 tons, 5.8 %
   Armour: 9,515 tons, 37.6 %
      - Belts: 4,139 tons, 16.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 563 tons, 2.2 %
      - Armament: 2,859 tons, 11.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,713 tons, 6.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 241 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,129 tons, 4.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,578 tons, 37.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,318 tons, 13.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     38,837 lbs / 17,616 Kg = 44.9 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 6.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.76
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.58

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.564
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.93 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -2.00 ft / -0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Stern:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 37,028 Square feet or 3,440 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 183 lbs/sq ft or 893 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.92
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: The Rock Doctor on July 18, 2008, 04:03:09 PM
It's starting to look pretty similar to Triunfante at that point.  Which is not a bad thing...
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Sachmle on July 19, 2008, 11:05:08 AM
Next.....
5x2x13.5v2, Naciones Unidas Battleship laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd42/Sachmle/5x2x13.jpg)
Image based on parts by Wes Wilson, modified by me.
Displacement:
   23,000 t light; 24,397 t standard; 26,364 t normal; 27,938 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 28.04 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      8 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,250.00lbs / 566.99kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1,250.00lbs / 566.99kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline amidships
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      16 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 13,780 lbs / 6,251 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   353.00 ft / 107.59 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   204.00 ft / 62.18 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   353.00 ft / 107.59 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   353.00 ft / 107.59 m   36.00 ft / 10.97 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   13.0" / 330 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   3rd:   6.00" / 152 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   4th:   4.00" / 102 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 27,284 shp / 20,354 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,541 tons (70% coal)

Complement:
   1,033 - 1,344

Cost:
   £3.059 million / $12.238 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,710 tons, 6.5 %
   Armour: 9,857 tons, 37.4 %
      - Belts: 4,367 tons, 16.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 705 tons, 2.7 %
      - Armament: 2,822 tons, 10.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,734 tons, 6.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 229 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,162 tons, 4.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,972 tons, 37.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,364 tons, 12.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     38,195 lbs / 17,325 Kg = 31.0 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 6.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.57

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.05 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -2.00 ft / -0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Forecastle (19 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (51 %):      24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.08 ft / 6.12 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 37,487 Square feet or 3,483 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 188 lbs/sq ft or 916 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.92
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Borys on July 19, 2008, 11:43:57 AM
Don't fiddle more.
Build it!
Borys
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Sachmle on July 19, 2008, 11:49:49 AM
Yeah..I already adjusted my building plan...this one's getting built.
Title: Re: Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.
Post by: Jefgte on July 19, 2008, 04:23:43 PM
Very nice BB well balanced.

Pleasant to make exercise with her.


Jef  ;)