Possible design to strengthen the mine warfare capacity of the main fleet. An evolution from the Groningen class, with one gun less, but the same broadside as weather shielded twin mounts have been adopted for A and F positions.
(http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6732/groningen2lk1.png)
Java2, Kingdom Sloop laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)
Displacement:
4 000 t light; 4 217 t standard; 4 891 t normal; 5 431 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
393,70 ft / 393,70 ft x 43,82 ft x 18,04 ft (normal load)
120,00 m / 120,00 m x 13,36 m x 5,50 m
Armament:
4 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (2x2 guns), 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1914 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1914 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
4 - 0,31" / 8,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 1914 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 794 lbs / 360 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250
4 - 17,7" / 450 mm submerged torpedo tubes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2,76" / 70 mm 318,24 ft / 97,00 m 10,50 ft / 3,20 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 124 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,97" / 50 mm 0,59" / 15 mm 1,97" / 50 mm
2nd: 1,38" / 35 mm - 1,97" / 50 mm
- Armour deck: 0,98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2,95" / 75 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 33 665 shp / 25 114 Kw = 27,00 kts
Range 9 000nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 214 tons
Complement:
292 - 380
Cost:
£0,527 million / $2,110 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 103 tons, 2,1 %
Armour: 651 tons, 13,3 %
- Belts: 374 tons, 7,7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 39 tons, 0,8 %
- Armour Deck: 219 tons, 4,5 %
- Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0,4 %
Machinery: 1 342 tons, 27,4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 603 tons, 32,8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 892 tons, 18,2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 6,1 %
- Fire control: 100 ton
- Radio; one large, one small: 35 ton
- Mines: up to 155 ton
- Ten torpedos: 10 ton
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3 586 lbs / 1 627 Kg = 34,8 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 0,8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17
Metacentric height 1,9 ft / 0,6 m
Roll period: 13,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,51
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,550
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,99 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19,84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20,90 ft / 6,37 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Mid (50 %): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m (11,48 ft / 3,50 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 11,48 ft / 3,50 m
- Stern: 11,48 ft / 3,50 m
- Average freeboard: 15,68 ft / 4,78 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 123,3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119,9 %
Waterplane Area: 12 039 Square feet or 1 118 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 77 lbs/sq ft or 374 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,92
- Longitudinal: 2,01
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
So what do YOU think?
Not bad, except that the gun shields are outside the rules.
"Twin gun mounts requires hoists, and they are power operated. Their armor is limited to splinter protection - 1"."
Aside from that, I like it a lot.
Quote from: Carthaginian on April 27, 2008, 06:25:30 PM
Not bad, except that the gun shields are outside the rules.
"Twin gun mounts requires hoists, and they are power operated. Their armor is limited to splinter protection - 1"."
Aside from that, I like it a lot.
Hu?
Do not see the problem, the mouts only have spliner and shrapnell protection, and identical to all of my other sloops.
Btw: Am i the only one who thinks the ship looks like it have rammed a wall and gotten squeezed together?
Quote from: Korpen link=topic=2234.msg23827#msg23827
Btw: Am i the only one who thinks the ship looks like it have rammed a wall and gotten squeezed together?/quote]
Too extensive superstructure for a cruiser of the era, looks a bit too modern, like she came from WWII.
Made the superstructure much smaller.
Also realised that fitting into a type 1 dry-dock was an unnecessary requirement (only matters if the ship is stationed in the south Atlantic). The lengthening allowed a slight increase in the main belt.
(http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5140/groningen3kw3.png)
Java2, Kingdom Sloop laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)
Displacement:
4 000 t light; 4 217 t standard; 4 895 t normal; 5 437 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
412,24 ft / 412,24 ft x 42,65 ft x 18,04 ft (normal load)
125,65 m / 125,65 m x 13,00 m x 5,50 m
Armament:
4 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (2x2 guns), 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1914 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1914 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
4 - 0,31" / 8,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 1914 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 794 lbs / 360 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250
4 - 17,7" / 450 mm submerged torpedo tubes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2,95" / 75 mm 321,52 ft / 98,00 m 10,50 ft / 3,20 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 120 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,97" / 50 mm 0,59" / 15 mm 1,97" / 50 mm
2nd: 1,38" / 35 mm - 1,97" / 50 mm
- Armour deck: 0,98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2,95" / 75 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 32 459 shp / 24 214 Kw = 27,00 kts
Range 9 000nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 220 tons
Complement:
292 - 380
Cost:
£0,519 million / $2,075 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 103 tons, 2,1 %
Armour: 684 tons, 14,0 %
- Belts: 405 tons, 8,3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 39 tons, 0,8 %
- Armour Deck: 221 tons, 4,5 %
- Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0,4 %
Machinery: 1 294 tons, 26,4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 614 tons, 33,0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 895 tons, 18,3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 305 tons, 6,2 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3 639 lbs / 1 651 Kg = 35,3 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 0,8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
Metacentric height 1,7 ft / 0,5 m
Roll period: 13,8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,60
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,08
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,540
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20,30 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20,90 ft / 6,37 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Mid (45 %): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m (11,48 ft / 3,50 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 11,48 ft / 3,50 m
- Stern: 11,48 ft / 3,50 m
- Average freeboard: 15,27 ft / 4,65 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 119,7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116,1 %
Waterplane Area: 12 156 Square feet or 1 129 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 76 lbs/sq ft or 369 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,93
- Longitudinal: 1,80
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
- Fire control: 100 ton
- Radio; one large, one small: 35 ton
- Mines: up to 165 ton
- Ten torpedos: 10 ton
- Paravanes: 5 ton
QuoteAm i the only one who thinks the ship looks like it have rammed a wall and gotten squeezed together?
Yes, it does look like it had an accident with a wall. :)
Not a bad vessel, though.
Aren't paravanes minesweeping equipment? I don't think you'd want to be using a ship of this size/cost for that task.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on April 28, 2008, 08:26:35 AM
Aren't paravanes minesweeping equipment? I don't think you'd want to be using a ship of this size/cost for that task.
Yes and no.
Paravanes can be mounted close to the bow on both sides to prevent contact mines from being sucked up against the hull as the ship passes the mine. They can also be deployed when ships are steaming in line or echelon to protect each other. So they (and basically every other ship I got) will have them and use them not to sweep mines, but to reduce the risk of hitting a mine when in suspect waters.
It's pretty much as Korpen said: for protection and not for sweeping.
In the "Tamiya News Supplement: Random Japanese Warship Details Vol.2" there are a few nice drawings in there regarding the paravanes. There is one of the cruiser Suzuya dragging along two paravanes (one port and one starboard) along 50 meter cables. The paravanes are about 28 meters from the centerline of the vessel. Also present are a few drawings of the paravane storing locations on the cruisers Suzuya and Myoko and on the battleship Mutsu.
Again, the armor on the guns is against the rules.
Please fix it.
The whole point of limiting the armor on 'mount and hoist' guns was to ensure that the next level of tech was researched.
Sorry Korpen, I like the ship, but you need to fix that.
Unless everyone is in agreement and thinks that we should allow up to, say, 50mm of armor on powered mounts.
Quote from: Carthaginian on April 28, 2008, 08:59:48 AM
Again, the armor on the guns is against the rules.
Please fix it.
The whole point of limiting the armor on 'mount and hoist' guns was to ensure that the next level of tech was researched.
Sorry Korpen, I like the ship, but you need to fix that.
Unless everyone is in agreement and thinks that we should allow up to, say, 50mm of armor on powered mounts.
And they still only have splinter protection, what is the problem?
Quote from: Korpen on April 28, 2008, 09:14:02 AM
And they still only have splinter protection, what is the problem?
The rules state 1"/25mm.
That's the cut-off, so that's the limit.
Quote from: Carthaginian on April 28, 2008, 09:18:24 AM
Quote from: Korpen on April 28, 2008, 09:14:02 AM
And they still only have splinter protection, what is the problem?
The rules state 1"/25mm.
That's the cut-off, so that's the limit.
Ok, never saw any limit to 25mm anywere, so that was a new one.
Then it was a good thing I did not post my re-sim of the IRL Java, as she got 10cm thick gunshields for her deck mounts. :)
Quote from: Korpen on April 28, 2008, 10:19:24 AM
Quote from: Carthaginian on April 28, 2008, 09:18:24 AM
Quote from: Korpen on April 28, 2008, 09:14:02 AM
And they still only have splinter protection, what is the problem?
The rules state 1"/25mm.
That's the cut-off, so that's the limit.
Ok, never saw any limit to 25mm anywere, so that was a new one.
Then it was a good thing I did not post my re-sim of the IRL Java, as she got 10cm thick gunshields for her deck mounts. :)
Well, wth, i can just post if for fun :)
QuoteIRL Java, kind of..., Netherlands Fodder laid down 1912
Displacement:
6 537 t light; 6 783 t standard; 7 450 t normal; 7 983 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
509,51 ft / 501,97 ft x 52,49 ft x 20,41 ft (normal load)
155,30 m / 153,00 m x 16,00 m x 6,22 m
Armament:
4 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1912 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1912 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
4 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm guns in single mounts, 13,23lbs / 6,00kg shells, 1912 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1 045 lbs / 474 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2,95" / 75 mm 426,51 ft / 130,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 131 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3,94" / 100 mm - -
2nd: 3,94" / 100 mm - -
- Armour deck: 1,10" / 28 mm, Conning tower: 4,92" / 125 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 66 305 shp / 49 464 Kw = 31,00 kts
Range 6 675nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 200 tons
Complement:
400 - 521
Cost:
£0,712 million / $2,850 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 135 tons, 1,8 %
Armour: 1 025 tons, 13,8 %
- Belts: 496 tons, 6,7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 135 tons, 1,8 %
- Armour Deck: 353 tons, 4,7 %
- Conning Tower: 40 tons, 0,5 %
Machinery: 2 644 tons, 35,5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 633 tons, 35,3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 913 tons, 12,3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1,3 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
5 411 lbs / 2 454 Kg = 52,5 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 0,9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,27
Metacentric height 2,9 ft / 0,9 m
Roll period: 12,9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,35
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,97
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,485
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,56 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22,40 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 11,30 degrees
Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19,03 ft / 5,80 m
- Mid (70 %): 19,03 ft / 5,80 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10,50 ft / 3,20 m
- Stern: 10,50 ft / 3,20 m
- Average freeboard: 17,29 ft / 5,27 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 130,5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148,8 %
Waterplane Area: 17 319 Square feet or 1 609 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 91 lbs/sq ft or 444 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,96
- Longitudinal: 1,54
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather
Quote from: Korpen on April 28, 2008, 10:19:24 AM
Ok, never saw any limit to 25mm anywere, so that was a new one.
Then it was a good thing I did not post my re-sim of the IRL Java, as she got 10cm thick gunshields for her deck mounts. :)
Personally, I do think it a bit light.
I think it should be adjusted up to about 2" or 50mm... ships historically had that much.
And the Java would be a monster to take on with those gun shields, as long as it was another cruiser fighting them. That much armor would slow down the train on an unpowered mount... heck, it gets heavy training a Humvee turret with 12mm shield and 50 kg of heavy machine gun!
Quote from: Carthaginian on April 28, 2008, 10:28:18 AM
Quote from: Korpen on April 28, 2008, 10:19:24 AM
Ok, never saw any limit to 25mm anywere, so that was a new one.
Then it was a good thing I did not post my re-sim of the IRL Java, as she got 10cm thick gunshields for her deck mounts. :)
Personally, I do think it a bit light.
I think it should be adjusted up to about 2" or 50mm... ships historically had that much.
On that, we are in perfect agreement. :)
Quote
And the Java would be a monster to take on with those gun shields, as long as it was another cruiser fighting them. That much armor would slow down the train on an unpowered mount... heck, it gets heavy training a Humvee turret with 12mm shield and 50 kg of heavy machine gun!
Well, it is what the real Java had: http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/Javacl.html
I suspect you did not have a balanced mount or a training wheel the size of truck steering wheel on you MG (if you did, you have to post a picture of it ;)).
I think much of the "too heavy to train"-argument is overblown, there were plenty of ship with quite heavy gun shields, Java is only one among many, and far from the heaviest.
Or rather: sure it slows down train, but was that significant?
The end result of Java making baby ships with Fylgia. :-*
(http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2968/javalovemm1.png)
Sweet love, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)
Displacement:
6 100 t light; 6 362 t standard; 7 257 t normal; 7 973 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
508,53 ft / 508,53 ft x 52,49 ft x 19,69 ft (normal load)
155,00 m / 155,00 m x 16,00 m x 6,00 m
Armament:
6 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (3x2 guns), 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1914 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
4 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (2x2 guns), 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1914 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all forward
Weight of broadside 992 lbs / 450 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2,95" / 75 mm 396,98 ft / 121,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 120 % of normal length
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,38" / 35 mm 0,39" / 10 mm 1,97" / 50 mm
2nd: 1,38" / 35 mm 0,39" / 10 mm 1,97" / 50 mm
- Armour deck: 0,98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 4,92" / 125 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 56 575 shp / 42 205 Kw = 30,00 kts
Range 9 220nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 610 tons
Complement:
393 - 511
Cost:
£0,811 million / $3,245 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 129 tons, 1,8 %
Armour: 859 tons, 11,8 %
- Belts: 468 tons, 6,4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 32 tons, 0,4 %
- Armour Deck: 319 tons, 4,4 %
- Conning Tower: 40 tons, 0,5 %
Machinery: 2 256 tons, 31,1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 533 tons, 34,9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 157 tons, 15,9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 323 tons, 4,5 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6 075 lbs / 2 756 Kg = 59,0 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 1,0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,29
Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m
Roll period: 12,8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,31
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,05
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,483
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,69 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22,55 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24,61 ft / 7,50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m (18,04 ft / 5,50 m aft of break)
- Mid (72 %): 18,04 ft / 5,50 m (9,84 ft / 3,00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 9,84 ft / 3,00 m
- Stern: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m
- Average freeboard: 16,47 ft / 5,02 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 119,9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139,3 %
Waterplane Area: 17 521 Square feet or 1 628 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 88 lbs/sq ft or 432 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,96
- Longitudinal: 1,42
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
- 100 ton FC.
- 35 ton radios (1large, 1small).
- 150 ton Mines.
- 25 ton radio collision warning system.
- 163 ton Mines
Gun shields on average 25mm.
can't see piccie
Nice. Me like piccie.
I would have used 8-9 singles, of course :)
The extensive superstructure makes me think of passanger ships. So to me she looks like a - cough, cough - peace cruiser. With good accomodation, for distant stations.
Borys
Quote from: Borys on May 27, 2008, 10:58:38 PM
I would have used 8-9 singles, of course :)
Well, yhay would be an option, see the previous design here (the Java one). :)
QuoteThe extensive superstructure makes me think of passanger ships. So to me she looks like a - cough, cough - peace cruiser. With good accomodation, for distant stations.
Well, it is not a ship for distant stations, but for fleet minelaying. The question is if it should not be worth to drop the FC to get 100tons more of mines, making the ship better at its primary missions, as well as carrying more torpedoes for the Destroyers that will do the real work.
Mainly looking into if it might be for the cost of three DDs, worth to build a cruiser. Armour covers the engine space only. Compared to DDs she is slower, but better protected, her total throw weight is significantly lower, but 15cm guns are somewhat more efficient against armour. Also it is a single larger egg, with not at all that thick a shell.
XXXXIV, Netherlands Slopp laid down 1916
(http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/4696/sloopzy4.png)
Displacement:
4 500 t light; 4 701 t standard; 5 314 t normal; 5 805 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
459,32 ft / 459,32 ft x 45,93 ft x 18,21 ft (normal load)
140,00 m / 140,00 m x 14,00 m x 5,55 m
Armament:
6 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (3x2 guns), 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
4 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (2x2 guns), 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
4 - 0,59" / 15,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,10lbs / 0,05kg shells, 1916 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 993 lbs / 450 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 160
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1,97" / 50 mm 331,36 ft / 101,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 111 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0,98" / 25 mm 0,98" / 25 mm 2,76" / 70 mm
2nd: 0,98" / 25 mm 0,98" / 25 mm 2,76" / 70 mm
3rd: 0,20" / 5 mm - -
- Armour deck: 0,79" / 20 mm, Conning tower: 4,13" / 105 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 42 882 shp / 31 990 Kw = 29,10 kts
Range 9 000nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 104 tons
Complement:
310 - 404
Cost:
£0,801 million / $3,203 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 129 tons, 2,4 %
Armour: 538 tons, 10,1 %
- Belts: 263 tons, 4,9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 46 tons, 0,9 %
- Armour Deck: 202 tons, 3,8 %
- Conning Tower: 27 tons, 0,5 %
Machinery: 1 598 tons, 30,1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 959 tons, 36,9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 814 tons, 15,3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 276 tons, 5,2 %
- 100 ton FC
- 156 ton mines
- 20 ton large commuications suite
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3 958 lbs / 1 795 Kg = 38,4 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 0,8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
Metacentric height 1,9 ft / 0,6 m
Roll period: 14,1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,59
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,04
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,484
Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21,43 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Forecastle (14 %): 18,04 ft / 5,50 m
- Mid (20 %): 18,04 ft / 5,50 m (14,76 ft / 4,50 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14,76 ft / 4,50 m
- Stern: 14,76 ft / 4,50 m
- Average freeboard: 15,60 ft / 4,76 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 122,0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128,1 %
Waterplane Area: 13 857 Square feet or 1 287 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 83 lbs/sq ft or 405 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,95
- Longitudinal: 1,59
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent