Powers Friendly to the DKB; possible that they might intervene in a war:
Habsburg Empire
Iberian Empire - As military allies, if the Habsburgs and Iberians show up it will be together. More needs to be found out about their thinking on the matter.
Kingdom of Rohan - The Rohirrim interest seems to be primarily in the maintenance of civilian health and general order; given that Maori policy would be in that direction anyway, a simple promise to take up the DKB's treaty obligations to them may be enough.
Japan - Depends how belligerent they are in general. Might need to be bought off.
Powers Friendly to the DKB but unlikely to aid them:
Gran Colombia - They're not inclined to foreign adventures, which is all to the good.
Kingdom of the Netherlands - While their previous cooperation with the Germans makes any actual aid unlikely, they'll be in the ideal position to snap up territories disputed between the two.
Confederate States of America - The CSA's navy is somewhat limited in its ability to project power; their awareness of this fact, combined with diplomatic ties to our own nation, make their intervention unlikely.
United Normann Kingdom - Nearly halfway across the world, and lacking any nearby possessions. While they might mourne the DKB, it is unlikely they'll consider it worth a war to save.
The Republic of Orange - Rhetoric about 'honor' and 'republicanism' aside, these sociopaths aren't likely to stick their necks out. Provoking them into taking the Italians' place if they don't choose to get involved would be morally unacceptable given what they do to their victims.
Potential Allies:
Baltic Confederation - Somewhat of a long shot, being even more distant than the Normanns. Will need to discover more about their grievance with the Germans.
United Nations of South America - No alliance as yet in this matter, but there's little doubt that one is in the cards eventually.
Italia - Friendly in their relations to us, exansionist in general, and owners of African colonies that frame the DKB's there on all three sides. Given our own lack of interest in the DKB's possessions, they're welcome to them.
Potential Gatecrashers:
Republic of New Switzerland - Hopefully, the admonition to limit themselves to DKB and actively allied targets will work. If not, it will be neccessary to call a truce with the primary enemy and restrain them by force. Dishonor is a disease that cannot be allowed free reign.
Things that would be known with next to zero effort.
Iberia sat out the Pacific War but had good relations with all parties in that conflict except the Dutch; which started good and degenerated totally. Iberian dry docks repaired several DKB and NS ships. At the mid point of the war Iberia bought several islands from NS. Austria reflagged its merchant marine to Iberian flag when NS raiders were at their worst.
It is very clear that there is a strong connection between Iberia and Austria. Austria helped put the father of the current Iberian Emperor take the throne during the Spanish Civil War. It is known that the royalty of the two countries talk regularly. The clearest example of the closeness of the two monarchies is at the funeral of the previous Iberian Emperor. At the head of the funeral precession were four riders (this retcons the 1907 new article).
Jaime de Borbón y de Borbón-Parma Prince of Asturias, now Jaime I Emperor of Iberia
Stefan von Hapsburg, Emperor of Austria
Alfonso Carlos de Bourbon, Duke of San Jaime, brother of the previous emperor and Jaime's uncle
Luitpold von Wittelsbach, Prince Regent of Bavaria, Jaime's Grand Father in law
All sorts of rumors involving Austria and Iberia's diplomatic service talking about issues together can be found.
So yes, its very likely that Iberia and Austria as military allies would act together. How they would act is another question all together.
Orange made its treaty with the DKB, the single most important source of conflict was settled without war. Nevermind that an invasion of industrialized Ostafrika would have immense cost in lives.
Relationship is cool, not neutral, but still a huge improvement from 5 years ago.
Orange reaction to the sale of French Afrique d'Orient to Italy was ambivalent - less French influence (fine, although they still have a lot of island possessions), sandwiching the DKB Ostafrika (good), but a new expansionist power appeared in the region (bad).
Rohan's relations in the Pacific were intended to keep that flank relatively peaceful for Rohan in the pre-1900 years as Rohan had much more pressing local problems. Being at peace by treaty wth Russia, Switzerland, and Brandenburg made sure the (then) heavies of the Pacific would not bother Rohan during the war with the Anahuac. Both Brandenburg and the Confederacy sent volunteer units to help Rohan while the Swiss helped against Anahuac raiders and pirates. Russia and France seemed to be slightly more supportive to the Anahuac and the UKN stayed away from the sutuation. (Columbia, who didn't care for the Anahuac either, stayed out of it). Rohan doesn't mess with Russia due to its size. Rohan and France have an odd relationship that seems centered on attempting to maintain the status quo.
The changes of the world (the inclusion of Japan and Maoria) along with the more powerful China and the shifted New Switzerland has changed the balance a bit. However Rohan is much more a power now then if was in 1898. Russia is a much more distant threat (if it wished to be a threat). Rohan has attempted to at least be friendly with the Japanese. They were friendly with the Chinese (the Chinese respected the elder culture), but treaty ties with the Swiss, and the combined Swiss and Chinese arrogance during treaty talks cast Rohan out of the Chinese favor. Maoria is still an unknown in terms of relations. Maoria and Rohan are known to have economic ties and friendly enough to have sporting competions, but aside from that I know nothing.
Rohan is still friendly with the Confederates and Brandenburg. They have mutual interest in the New Beleriand Canal. The Swiss also have interest there (it starting as a Swiss suggested project), but the last war and some of the Swiss actions before hand have soured relations with Rohan to an extent. They are still friendly, but not all that willing to be helpful to the Swiss anymore.
The CSA would marginally support the Swiss long enough to try and buy their shares of the New Beleriand Canal- thus removing the need to support them at all- and then would allow them to hang.
The average 'Johnny on the street' hates the dishonorable ways of the Swiss, and wants to get shed of them for good ASAP.
Hello,
Until the Maori/DKB history and news are developed a bit(unless I missed it-if so could you direct me?) I can't comment too much on a proposed war with DKB or my views upon it.
I believe the DKB has been in position for some time, and I also don't think they displaced the maori. No animosity has been suggested for the Maori as a nation in the past(ie. before you arrived) so a 180 turn around now seems out of place without reason(This may also apply to the NUS?). If you are a 'champion' of all aboriginals then I would expect problems with swiss/ firanji and possibly all the other southern island possesors.
I also noticed you left France out of your equation, maybe not the best idea since you have suggested you don't get along with them.
The Maori despite for the DKB is my own creation, yes, and originates in the thought that the small continent we know as 'Maoria' is simply not their original homeland. Instead, Navalism's Maori, in my version of events (^_^), lived for most of their history in pretty much the same place as their real world equivalents: Neue Brandenburg.
Thus, my speculation as to the consequences of that fact are...
When the German exodus chose Brandenburg as their ultimate homeland, they did so with access to firearms, firearm tactics, proper logistical techniques, and most importantly, political unity. Rather than trying to cut out new farmlands and settlements, and already possessing an overabundance of people in the form of a steady stream of European emigrants, the invaders made a policy of depossessing and displacing the native populace rather than coexisting with or enslaving them.
Since trade contact between the rather sparse existing inhabitants of Maoria and the various Maori tribes had existed prior to this point, the existence of a potential new homeland formed a powerful lure that drew off most of the displaced Maori in a great exodus to the southeast.
Much of the driving force that would eventually lead to the unification of the tribes of Maoria (both gone-before and dispossessed) was the fear of another German invasion; the idea European predation was one of key elements of the formation of Maori nationalism. 'This is what awaits us if we remain weak and divided, if we do not forge our people's true selves out of the petty squabbles of the past.'
Despite that, and despite their own increasing technological advancement as the turn of the century came and went, the deadly effectiveness of Brandenburgian weapons and military might was axiomatic in the Maori's cultural consciousness...
Until the Second Pacific War demonstrated all too clearly that the supposed boogeyman had the proverbial feet of clay.
Hating the DKB is nothing new to the Maori, as I'd have it - just the idea that something might be done about it.
The Maori think very little of France. Though they wouldn't phrase it nearly so crassly, keeping the Frogs uninvolved is just a matter of figuring out which decadent pig in the herd to bribe into giving the right orders.
There have been quiet whispers of a pan-polynesian superstate - or perhaps even one including indonesia and melanesia as well - but the idea hasn't been given any serious consideration at any level of the government and has never been spoken loudly enough to reach foreign ears... and anyway, there is a certain matter of priorities.
...I realize that this little tale is effectively my own creation, for the most part, but there was nothing one way or the other on the subject before now. It's impossible to make a U-turn from a blank slate.
Novadays Russia does not have much influence at the Pasific region.
There were a great Power of Russians at the Northern part of the Pasific until 1905. The ambitions to control the situation and territories there set the country to the border of war with Switzerland. But during last 6 years, which passed after the Great Chrysis, which happened at Russian monarchy house, the country's main problem was to set the normal life and economics. And after Far East Chrysis, when Russia left its colonies and homelands at Primorie, the Country could not interfere to the Pasific business.
But some job was done, and Russia is looking torward Pasific again. But the countries there grew up, there are new leaders there and the only role, which now Russia can play there is to be a judje between competitors.
I still don't know why people see NS as dishonorable. NS has been the only country to actually give a Decleration of War before shooting, and the only country to actually follow to the letter (not to the spirit) Treaties it has signed. Course that is history now.
NS and Japan are wildcards at the moment. I know Walter has some interesting plans, and really doesn't care about anyone. They could join the Maoris, the Germans, or sit out the war. Between the two they have the fleets and bases required to tilt the balance in favor of one side or the other. Rocky and Valles would do well in talking to Walter, he might hold the keys to victory. But knowing him he might just as well sit out the war and attack both once they are too weak to defend themselves.
The Swiss reputation seems based on their reported dealing with piracy, their tendancy to be rather arrogent in negotiations, their humored use of terror weapons, their severing only the letter of their treaties (rather than the spirit of the treaties), and humors of various shady dealings that have surfaced over the years.
On a story note: I'm waiting on Walter to see what is going on on his end of the Pacific. I think all the mod issues with Japan and New Switzerland were answered up to the start of 1909. If there are more, I need to know what they are so they can be answered.
Given that nobody has posted Swiss or Japanese news since 1908, I think the proper answer is, "Nothing of note has happened in the western Pacific". I see no real reason the rest of us should be left hanging on this issue.
I concur with Rocky, no changes after the date of the peace treaty (the Japanese icanctivity). This includes Switzerland and Japan still existing as back in 1908.
Quote from: blooded on March 12, 2008, 11:46:28 AM
I believe the DKB has been in position for some time, and I also don't think they displaced the maori. No animosity has been suggested for the Maori as a nation in the past(ie. before you arrived) so a 180 turn around now seems out of place without reason(This may also apply to the NUS?). If you are a 'champion' of all aboriginals then I would expect problems with swiss/ firanji and possibly all the other southern island possesors.
I also noticed you left France out of your equation, maybe not the best idea since you have suggested you don't get along with them.
Read my history http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=1610.0 (http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=1610.0) for that answer.
QuoteUnited Nations of South America - No alliance as yet in this matter, but there's little doubt that one is in the cards eventually.
Have we never heard the phrase "Do not assume, it only makes an Ass out of U and Me"? I may not like those people (spits on ground) but that doesn't mean I want a war halfway across the Pacific. I'm still trying to get things strait at home as far as my navy and army goes. Mind you, it's not out of the question, and I certainly wouldn't stop you from burying them, but I may or may not help.....
Likewise, the CSA might not have the ability to project power at those distances AT THE MOMENT, but our shared business concerns with the DKB might prompt us to take some action... so don't count us out of SUPPORTING the Brandenburgers.
We gave some covert aid to the DKB during the war- mines from our stockpile for one. After the war, we sold 2 pre-dread BB's to the DKB and developed an entire class of destroyers (several were purchased by the Habsburgers) to help rebuild the fleets of the Allies.
So, I might not ally with the DKB, but I might not be averse to 'aggressive neutrality.'
Quote
Have we never heard the phrase "Do not assume, it only makes an Ass out of U and Me"? I may not like those people (spits on ground) but that doesn't mean I want a war halfway across the Pacific. I'm still trying to get things strait at home as far as my navy and army goes. Mind you, it's not out of the question, and I certainly wouldn't stop you from burying them, but I may or may not help.....
We have. The NUS's role in the 'master plan' - unless I'm misreading the map or missing a sale somewhere, which I suppose I might be - is to draw off their army, naval, and sealift assets by taking Rio Grande do Sul, essentially a mirror of what the Italians are going to be asked to do in Africa. The DKB will be presented with two real strategic option for dealing with this threat: First, to reinforce its colonies and weaken its heartland for the Maori invasion. This is desirable for obvious reasons. Second, they can write off the outer territories and keep the heartland too strong to be taken. There will probably be an attempt for solidarity's sake and then peace can be sued for with the Germans out their colonies and abruptly much less equipped to deal with their still-industrializing Maorian foe.
And neutrality, aggressive or otherwise, can be lived with.
Generally the Kingdom is militantly anti-expansionist, and will work against any state that seek expansion by force of arms, directly or indirectly. At least as long as it is cost-efficient.
I'm curious how that stance gets reconciled with the possession of overseas colonies.
Gran Colombia is inclined to foreign adventures (Cuba, Jamaica, El Doarado/Amazon) if non-intervention is expected to result in harm to Colombian interests.
Quote from: Valles on March 13, 2008, 06:45:17 AM
I'm curious how that stance gets reconciled with the possession of overseas colonies.
I really fail to see why there would be a contradiction.
Hello,
I expect that Italy will be very involved with their Egyptian adventure(ie. I don't believe it will be the cakewalk they have claimed it will). They also may wish to maintain a large Med. presence to discourage/take advantage of opportunities which may/may not occur with the Ottoman gangbang.
As to NUS going to war over a $2 Colony, that would be up to them. But since the DKB is not against selling off colonies, they would do better just buying it back(decreasing DKB liabilities at the same time-as the french have done lately).
With Walters disappearance I would once again like to vote against a Japan-Swiss merger(and the creation of another superpower in the Pacific). It sounds as though he will be back. Russia and China are rarely around(both superpowers-olekit has recently re-emerged). I had the impression that 2 HYs without posting and you lose your claim to a country. Perhaps other more active players should be given the opportunity to take the helm, if they so desire.
Gotta go...
Blood, I think you're misinterpreting a critical detail of the timetable - the earliest I'd consider moving even if everything goes the best it possibly could for me - re: agreements, DKB developments, tech research, etc - would be on the order of 1915. 1920 would be a far more likely target date.
I am, as it were, figuring out what my ducks look like and where their rows should go.
...changing subjects while I'm posting, when I was doing my start, the mods allowed me about 240 BP worth of ships. I used, IIRC, 200 of those. Is the unused allowance a write-off or would a reasonable retcon be permitted?
240K? Jay-zus. I only started out with about ~180K for Gran Colombia.
Quote from: Valles on March 13, 2008, 09:14:39 AM
...changing subjects while I'm posting, when I was doing my start, the mods allowed me about 240 BP worth of ships. I used, IIRC, 200 of those. Is the unused allowance a write-off or would a reasonable retcon be permitted?
Jikes, your fleet is effectively larger then mine (in tonnage). :o
Hello,
Yes that is a critical bit of info(regarding timescale). Changes everything in fact. Gives you plenty of time to develop storylines and support. I hadn't seen a time scale before so I 'Ass U Me d' that 1912 was the target date. ;D
Rock,
Wow! 180K? That seems awfully low, was that due to losses from combat(with IC) or somesuch?
We had fairly rigid rules for specifying how much tonnage one started with, based on one's "heavy industry". While I can't recall the precise formula, I do remember the starting units...many of the larger ones are still in service (though hopefully not for long).
Evidently the formula's been replaced or adjusted in some fashion since then.
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on March 13, 2008, 10:31:30 AM
Evidently the formula's been replaced or adjusted in some fashion since then.
OR Maoria has a few extra years worth of tonnage to play with. ;)
I doubt it - nothing's older than 1898.
QuoteI doubt it - nothing's older than 1898.
True, but my start was in 1910 rather than 1906 as I understand the rest of y'all's to've been.
1906 was the start of this incarnation of the sim, yes; several of us carried over from the previous incarnation with start dates between 1898 and 1904.
Anyway - wasn't trying to send your thread on a tangent there...
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on March 13, 2008, 12:31:46 PM
Anyway - wasn't trying to send your thread on a tangent there...
De nada. My own doing, really. ^_^
Quote from: Korpen on March 13, 2008, 08:33:26 AM
I really fail to see why there would be a contradiction.
The story of every colony in history starts the same way - by reaching out and taking land from the people who were already there. Even the act of keeping one is a tacit legitimization of that.
...despite the word's use for such in science fiction, I consider the settlement of genuinely uninhabited territory to be a separate phenomenon that went extinct on both real and Navalism Earth sometime around 1000 CE.
Regarding Walther(Nippon),taken from my mail-box:
View Profile Email Personal Message (Online)
Re: more Ships for sale
« Sent to: Walter on: November 26, 2007, 10:10:00 pm »
Reply with quote Reply Remove this message
CL 03 Tyr,CL 04 Loki,CL 05 Balder,CL 06 Hother,CL 07 Njord
CL 08 Heimdahl,CL 09 Frej,CL 10 Mod,CL 11 Magne,CL 12 Surt
CL 13 Brage,CL 14 Sleipner,CL 15 Freja,CL 16 Hel for $15?
Re: more Ships for sale
« Sent to: Walter on: November 26, 2007, 10:25:45 pm »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ships will depart from Hamburg 1/10 so I pay upkeep 1/10
Re: (No subject)
« Sent to: Walter on: November 28, 2007, 01:05:36 am »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1905 Advanced (+1) shallow draft barges and shallow draft support ships
Advanced (+1) 14" Naval Rifles
Maoria was intended as a medium power to balance out the Pacifc. We didn't want it too weak, or else it would have been conquored long ago by the Europeans. The idea was that is was their as the main body of the civilization, rather than what was New Zealand (as before the 1906 change, normal New Zealand was Maoria and there was no enlarge islands or continents in the Pacific) The change shifted the cener of Brandenburg from New Guinea and part of Australia to the enlarged New Zealand and allowed Brandenburg to have space for an enlarged population. This also allowed for an expanded Maoria contient rather than a simple collection of tribes that have been defended by outside help for centuries.
Quote from: Valles on March 13, 2008, 12:43:52 PM
Quote from: Korpen on March 13, 2008, 08:33:26 AM
I really fail to see why there would be a contradiction.
The story of every colony in history starts the same way - by reaching out and taking land from the people who were already there. Even the act of keeping one is a tacit legitimization of that.
So? I am willing to bet quite allot that every state in existence since 1648 (westphalia) have "taken land"** from another "people"* at one time or another. It is also utterly irrelevant in this case.
*: "peoples" is often created in hindsight
**: There were huge differences between how colonialism developed in the different continents. In the Americas the people already there was often driven away, but in Asia colonialism was often simply the additions of an extra ruling layer, leaving most of the social structures intact.