OK now that the wars have been "resolved" and Navalism is at peace are we going to do a fast forward or switch back to two weeks perhalf?
Michael
I've posted news up to September 30th for now. I want to see what else is going on before I finish out the year.
Ahoj!
We will finish the year by end the week.
And you ask a good question about the fast forward.
How does everybody feel with "one week for each HY until Christmass"?
To cover 1909 and 1910 in a short time, just building ships and infrastructure. With minimal roleplay? With more detailed gameplay returning in 1911? Or make 1911 also a fast one, and get into details from 1912 onwards?
Or maybe simply post 4 HY (6?) reports together, as the "fast forward", and "restart" in 1911 or 1912.
Borys
I see an advantage of that.
But, a day or 2 to tie up the strings. So, 21 november is my new HY report.
Also to keep in mind is RL - Christmass is coming, with quarterly/annual reports targets to make, with travel, family gatherings, being off line (gasp! twitch!), shopping (gasp! twitch!) etc.
Borys
I was about to say that Thanksgiving in the United States is this Thursday, so some people are either taveling, entertaining family, or stressing out at work to get stuff done before the holidays (and the Black Friday shopping madness) start.
same here, compounded by some other irl things.
2 weeks for a HY, no interaction, except some consolidation?
Ahoj!
Two weeks per HY is the "slow going". And it rarely works :)
I was thinking of a Great Leap Forward :)
Would everybody be around in early January and onwards?
We would start 1912 then?
I am just throwing ideas into the wind here ...
Borys
Well something BIG is going to happen in NS and with finals coming up I don't know if I'll have the time to do much for the next few weeks. But by mid December I should be ready to roll.
Ahoj!
Could you make your stance on the FastForward somewhat more clear?
:)
Borys
I have a feeling there are people that have stories they still wish to tell at specific times. There is no need to rush through time as long as we have a steady pace.
I'm aware there are others that want to get past a lot of time because they effectively can't really do anything because their next move requires their new ships to be finished, which will take time. I know I have something potentially planned for 1910, but there is a lot of stuff in 1909 that may require attention as well (naval construction, deconstruction, and rebuilds) that require knowledge of what it going on in the world to make it seem correct.
Plus some choices are based on what our research rolls come out as, as well as what our neighbors are doing. A quick skip will likely throw things off (much as it did even when we skipped 1905 for the major adjustments..it took us all time to get our bearings again.)
The war and lead up to it took us from roughly August 1907 to August 1908 over the course of seven months. While we are now considerable behind where we would be normally, a mad dash sort of defeat all those that have been waiting for those seven months for things to get back to normal. (were we on a HY in two weeks or a HY a month?) If things were going normally it would be either 1911 or 1914-15 now. While we are behind, we don't need to rush now that things are "normal" again. Just keep the pace steady and we should be fine (until the next war that is).
For future wars, I still highly suggest that the player involved script out their actions to the point of the battles at least. If you think you can honor one or the other's results, run the battles yourselves even. As long as all parties agree on the results, there should be no problem, and the pace can stay normal to slightly delayed due to external player interactions with the conflict. (no more than double standard time period per HY though). If the parties directly involved cannot agree on the battles, then a moderator can run them. If the players cannot agree on scripting, then I''d suggest not having the war, as the purpose is to have fun, not agrue with each other over every inch of land and sea. Large conflicts should be avoided if at all possible, as shown in the results of the last seven months. When it is time for there to be a Great War (again?) we will figure out some way to streamline it if it cannot be handled by a scripted agreement on the part of those involved in the conflict.
I agree with Ithekro. There's too many details that hinge on what others due that would be lost in the shuffle if we go too fast.
The newest players need some time to establish their nations' personalities through role-playing. I, personally, don't think I can keep up with a report every week.
A half-year per two weeks is plenty good for me. Santa's going to give me presents regardless of whether I'm at 1910 or 1914 come Christmas.
2 weeks is the min. starting after thanksgiving?
After Thanksgiving should work. Most people haven't done anything for H2/1908 yet, so giving them a week to come off the war should help a bit. I'd hope everyone at least had plans for the half year already and will just be adjusting it to the results of the war and its aftermath.
*Cancels deployment plans to the western Pacific*
I'll post H1/09 sim report next weekend - we did our Thanksgiving last month while the weather was still nice.
As we move towards 1909 I've started to adjust the map to reflect the changes.
There are somethings I'm missing. Several smaller islands deals in the last seven realtime months I've forgotten or never caught. So help point them out as well as errors (this is based on the 1906 map still).
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/ithekro/navalism1909a.gif)
(I've yet to alter North America fully to reflect the land changes from adding Middle Earth to the west coast. We'll leave it for now, but I get the feeling Haven will move or join the Indian Lands, or the Indian Lands will became a larger version of Haven based on the map of Middle Earth overlaid on a map of the United States from 1895. Aside from the Haven/indian Lands there should be nothing else tat needs changing. The UKA and CSA borders are correct on the world map, only the actual location of Haven is in question.).
French Guyana is becoming Gran Colombian. Just to mention
Something else. Due to an oversight by the Treaty writers, NS is NOT required to evacuate any captured territory outside of New Guinea. That said, Celebes, Tarakan, the Lesser Sundas, Kupang, and Easter Island should be recolored light brown.
I've got tennative reports for 1909 done, and can adjust them for last week of NOV, but then I have 9 tests in 3 weeks, including 6 finals (3 classes, and 3 labs). I'll be slow till about 15 DEC.
This map reflect the change in French Guyana as well as what I think the new relationship with Haven and the Indian Lands are. Haven (in Middle Earth terms) would be Nurn and part of Near Harad with the border on the mountains (not the Sea) and then the real Green River and Colorado River south of the Middle Earth mountians.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/ithekro/navalism1909b.gif)
The relationship Haven/Indian Lands may not be needed anymore and in turn combines the two so that they are all "The Haven of the Peoples" rather than two seperate parts, since the geography has changed and the purpose of the Haven seems to be gone (at least for the Haven in its original form, which was a guarded region defended by Rohan to keep the UKA away from those that did not wish to be assimilated by either Rohan or the Europeans). The Indian Lands, as they are now, are protected/allied to Rohan, but they don't have the more obvious road block the Haven had early in the sim. What do you think?
The Dutch campaign in that region kicked the Swiss out of the Lesser Sundas I would imagine. Timor would have fallen before the treaty signing, so that would be Dutch. Tarakan is worthless aftter the Dutch left so I see no point in the Swiss staying personally. Easter Island is a dead island. I would think the ships that returned on July 15th would have been spooked and call it haunted.
Possible Swiss war based changes (Celebes, Tarakan island, and Easter Island), plus a fix on South America (Chile).
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/ithekro/navalism1909c.gif)
What deals were made between the Swiss and Iberia over islands and Brandenburg (or Swiss) with Columbia over islands?
What changes can be reflected for the Japanese (I recall rumors of things, but not where and when)?
The Dutch ignored Swiss troops in the Lesser Sundas, and did not manage to capture Kupang (but did recapture the rest of Timor). Tarakan is not exacly worthless, and can be rebuilt. As for Easter Island, there is a mystery to solve. There are also a few islands around Rabaul that changed hands, have to look them up.
It seems that if a territory is not specified in the treaty it returns to its pre-war borders.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/ithekro/navalism1909d.gif)
QuoteSomething else. Due to an oversight by the Treaty writers, NS is NOT required to evacuate any captured territory outside of New Guinea. That said, Celebes, Tarakan, the Lesser Sundas, Kupang, and Easter Island should be recolored light brown.
Oh, God.
Recognizing that the treaty can't account for things the writers don't know about - do the Swiss
really think that it's a good idea to continue occupying those territories?
Desertfox,
I strongly advise New Switzerland to evacuate those territories. As the treaty does not cede you those islands, keeping soldiers on foreign soil is a very bad idea, looking at the list of countries taking part in the conference.
BTW, Kupang fell to the Dutch. There was some communication delay due to severe weather in the area
Since I was forced to sign that treaty I will be following it to the letter and not an inch more. It is not NS fault that there was an oversight in the wording of the treaty, nor is it NS fault that the ships required to evacuate those troops where sunk during the war.
Desertfox-
That is not helping at all. Considerable agony has gone into this peace and progression. It would not be good to rock the damaged boat before it is repaired, it may sink.
If you take a careful look at the negotiations you will see that originaly there was a clause having NS forces evacuated captured territory, but that clause was craftily removed during the negotiations and the Kra Canal was used as an excuse to cover up said omission. Oh there is method to my madness, and yes I have been planning this for a long time, and no NS is not about to evacuate said lands, losing Launceston hasn't helped one bit, nor having to pay the Dutch $15 without being able to negotiate said sum.
Ahoj!
I am no longer "allied" to anybody. So my troops stay in New Amsterdam. As squatters.
And the world map could eliminate the Habsburg enclave in north Brasil.
But I would also suggest to keep the original there, as "the word in 1906". So that subsequent maps would tel of the changes that happened.
Borys
Ahoj!
I am no longer "allied" to anybody. So my troops stay in New Amsterdam. As squatters.
And the world map could eliminate the Habsburg enclave in north Brasil.
But I would also suggest to keep the original there, as "the word in 1906". So that subsequent maps would tel of the changes that happened.
Borys
Oh I have no intention of erasing the 1906 map(s), only using 1909 as an update. I'll post another updated map later after I get more data on Iberian-Swiss island exchanges and Brandenburg-Columbian island exchanges (and any others I may not be remembering clearly).
I would point out that since Austria signed the treaty, it is bound to it just as the Swiss are.
Not even the Germans? Im sure there are still a couple Austrian Alliances out there. Now if your troops want to defect and become Swiss citizens that's another story, I'm pretty sure the New Amsterdamers would be glad to show them the sights. (ie The nice Great White Shark filled Australian beaches, the great Crocodile territory rivers of the outback, and the beautiful Taipans in the outback itself.) ;)
Problems like this are the main reason I was against the hand-waven forced solutions...resentment and belligerence follows on the part of those slighted by such forceful moves. I'd hoped for a little more reason among the players involved but the stubborness and lack of progress forced the moderators' hand(s). Now you and I are stuck with it. I suppose the heartless but true thing to say is "deal with it and move on".
I do not have any treaties where I am "allied" to anybody. So the 110,000 tourists all dressed at the same tailor shop stay there for very detailed sight seeing.
Borys
Fox I had perfectly reasonable war flushed down the drain because of this peace movement. If I can sit and 'like' then you can too. So would the Swiss and Austrian beach bums please go home so we can get on with the game?
As to your ship going boom if you can figure out what happened you have a fun plot to run with. Iberia the government had nothing to do with it, despite several Iberian citizens being guilty as sin in there involvement, and the story actually matches fairly closely what happened in PM's. I spend nothing on internal security so when Maddox said point blank he was going to bribe my ambassador I saw no reason for it not to work. As the story pointed out all he could do with that is to control info and not generation actions by itself. I joked to him why don't you just blow up the ship and he said make it happen. I came up with a plan, ran it past the moderators and it was approved.
It was role-playing and you have a number of paths open to you how to run with this. How you play your cards could get Iberia either much closer to New Switzerland or wreck relations; Iberia is prickly about its honor. It finding out that someone paid its ambassadors and military to blow something up is going to generate a response. At the same time just flailing about is going to look bad. As I say to people in table top games I run, don't view this as a negative but as a role-playing opportunity for character development.
I would point out that ship going boom is hardly helpful for my own nation as I checked the story for the destruction of the Justinian in the Philippines, she had another ship with her. Called the Launceston...
Another thing that might be addressed in the post war times - "Moaria".
I'm thinking of Maoria as a sort of "Pacific Tarrantry" (or perhaps a "Pacific Altantis" to the Swiss "Pacific Tarrantry"). With this war having ended and all sides being fairly messed up, Maoria may actually be the "big" power in the South Pacific. I see them having a defensive minded fleet designed to keep the rest of the Pacific powers away from their islands. That might change with the powershift after 1908.
What is missing of course is a player for it. Being a completely fictional place, the person who takes that land will need to be creative yet reasonable (no massive airship fleets of doom, hyperlasers, werewolves, or magic.) Basically something that can sound reasonable and within roughly the time period we are in. I'd expect Maoria to be behind in technology compared to most of the rest of us (though they might be even or ahead in a few areas to make it interesting). The are a mid-tier country I think the record states, so they could have a fleet about on par with the pre-war New Swiss or Dutch Navies. If this power has been keeping to itself most of this time, then they must have a fairly large defensive fleet (enough to discourage invasions). It may not be powerful or large, but enough to keep the greedy Europeans, Americans, Africans, Asians, and Pacificers away. This may turn out to be a purchased fleet, or even a rather old fleet that is well kept with some newer additions. But that is up to the new player.
(Or it gets cut down a whole lot and pawned off on someone as a colony or some such thing.)
Blooded has dibbs on that!
UKA lands? Ex-ACM lands maybe?
Ahoj!
The Swiss garrisons in the NOI have embraced soldiering that much, that on the news of peace they decided to join the AFL. After all, the Imperialistic, Expansionistic, etc. Habsburgs are always invading some poor innocents.
And "beach Bums" will become an unnoficial honorific of those two corps :)
Borys
Moderator handwavium can always retroactively include a "evacuation of all occupied lands other than" notation in the treaty.
I'd be careful in assigning the fleet size of Maoria; the pre-war NSN was bloated by the acquisition of unusually large amounts of second-hand ships. I'd prefer to see the moderators develop some sort of generic formula linking starting fleet size to BP capacity.
Would it be possible to get population growth and tech results (if any) so people can start to work on 1909H1?
Michael
I had that thought...
QuoteModerator handwavium can always retroactively include a "evacuation of all occupied lands other than" notation in the treaty.
There was such a notation, but it was removed by the Swiss. Note that the Dutch can keep Buru if they so desire due to same reason. As for the Austrians, the treaty states that NA will 'revert to Swiss jurisidiction' so they can stay but they will fall under Swiss law. Which means I can now charge the bunch with Littering!
QuoteI would point out that ship going boom is hardly helpful for my own nation as I checked the story for the destruction of the Justinian in the Philippines, she had another ship with her. Called the Launceston...
Actually Justice was alone. Launceston wasn't even built then.
Handwavium Moderatoriensis rewrote the treaty to avoid further "misunderstundings".
Quote
...
4. New Guinea and Dutch East India - in its entirety - shall revert to pre-war borders.
5. New Amsterdam and Tasmania shall be evacuated by Allied forces and revert to Swiss jurisidiction.
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=1658.msg17408#msg17408
You sly bugger, you. Wanna add Easter Island to that?
Quote from: Desertfox on November 19, 2007, 09:20:58 AM
QuoteI would point out that ship going boom is hardly helpful for my own nation as I checked the story for the destruction of the Justinian in the Philippines, she had another ship with her. Called the Launceston...
Actually Justice was alone. Launceston wasn't even built then.
I know its not the same ship but it looks like a Launceston was there...
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=490.0
Michael
Easter Island seems to be owned by the South Americans, just leased by Brandenburg. Swiss have no legal claim after all human life was somehow removed from said land in July.
QuoteConsidering some of those "conquests" were Coquimbo NUS hereby recinds the lease signed for Isla de Pascoa and claims it is sovreign NUS soil effective Aug 12th, 1908.
I don't recall reading that before. Where is that to be found?
I'm becoming precognizant and delivering word of things to come. (PM from this morning)
Now I'm sure it will be contested by Brandenburg, (should Swamphen recover from his writers block) and of course the Swiss who will think they conquored it fairly.
Quote from: maddox on November 18, 2007, 01:34:01 AM
Easter Island was property of the bigger USSA. Originaly leased to the ACM, but when the collaps started and the population of easter island started to starve, Governor Agrival, at his best ,did do horrible things. A revolution happened, and the revolutionaries escaped with every , to be taken in by Rohan.
A depopulated island with ruined infrastructure was all that was left. Agrival went crimelord/mercenary. To end in Peru. (look at Ithekro's endline on Agrival)
After that, the DKB asked, and got the lease on Easter island. Swamphen used it with good effect for his conquests in South America as recoaling point.
Sorry Rocky... ;D
No need to apologize...I think. I'll look forward to whatever public news release comes about, and edit my latest news item accordingly.
QuoteI know its not the same ship but it looks like a Launceston was there...
Oh that's another Launceston, an Atlanta class PC sunk during the Rustbucket Incident.
QuoteEaster Island seems to be owned by the South Americans, just leased by Brandenburg. Swiss have no legal claim after all human life was somehow removed from said land in July.
*grumble*
Still a Swiss Investigation's team will pay Easter Island a visit. There's potential there for biological weapons.
Maybe you need to retire that name, Foxy. It doesn't seem to bring good luck with it.
There is also the possiblity that if you are correct you could wipe out your own people though plague. :o
Course if they do find something they would then sail for France and turn themselves in as pirates! ;D
Well I live in the only area in the world where plauge still exists. And NS has experimented with plague before, so it shouldn't be a problem.
QuoteWhat changes can be reflected for the Japanese (I recall rumors of things, but not where and when)?
Iberia got the Bonin and Volcano islands from New Switzerland in exchange for... something. Japan got them from Iberia in exchange for techonlogy.
Also, Japan made a deal with Russia. The use of <Classified information> in exchange for the Vladivostok area.
For the Swiss/Iberia deal...
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=1187.0
I will try to get a treaty on that drafted before I leave, but no promises as I have a lot of packing to do tonight.
Michael
Take your time. It is more important to have all the stuff you need packed.
Adjusted for Japanese held islands
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/ithekro/navalism1909e.gif)
Ahoj!
So - can I post 4 HY reports and wake up in 1911?
Borys
Ithekro, I think you added a few islands too many to Japan...
Japan
- The Bonin Islands
- The Volcano Islands
Iberia
- Marcus Island
- The Marianas Islands excluding the islands of Saipan, Tinian and Aquijan.
- The Island of Guam
- The western most portion of the Caroline Islands known as the Yap Islands
- The Palau islands
New Switzerland
- Saipan, Tinian and Aquijan
QuoteSo - can I post 4 HY reports and wake up in 1911?
You could, but there is no guarantee that a neighbour will decide to make use of that and attack the Austrians, catching them with their pants down for several HYs. :)
What Walter said... My father has internet so I can check things when I free moments.
Michael
Oh. I thought the entire trade has been traded again.
This better?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/ithekro/navalism1909f2.gif)
I intend to keep a regular schedule rather than skipping time.
That map looks good... A question.
What is that organish dot SW of Java?
Ex-Swiss Samoa and the Ex-DKB Cook Islands are now Colombian Polynesia, but it's not easy to see where they even are in the maps.
Christmas Island (Orange territory)
I'll see if I can find those on this map Rocky.
Hello,
I won't be switching countries(Maoria), now that we can speed things up I'll be able to modify my forces to suit much better. UNK should prove fun.
So as to the 'dubs' on Maoria I step down. I could still help create it(if desired-although a new player would probably enjoy this more) once I get some extra time(won't be for awhile).
Could not post a few days ago so I Had to mention this while I still remember it.