18 January 1931

The official keel-laying ceremony takes place for the battleship Jan Ingenhousz, although steel has been laid since yard workers were sober enough on 2 January to do so.

With several members of the royal family under the weather with some form of flu, the Crown is represented at this event by Queen Christine and Princess Edyta.  The queen graciously permits her seventeen year-old daughter to take the spotlight on this occasion, and the young royal delivers a brief, ghost-written speech about the workers and the city which will spend the next four and a half years building the mighty dreadnought. 

Afterward, yard workers are prepared to admit that it wasn't a bad speech, and the event wasn't quite as disastrous as they expected it was going to be when they heard who would there. 

18 March 1931

The battleship Znakomity arrives in Stockholm to begin the process of paying off, beginning with the removal of all ammunition.

She is the last pre-dreadnought battleship built for the Vilnius Union navy.  Originally intended to be the second of five Wspanialy class ships, construction of her sisters was terminated early in 1903 as the Union came to recognize that a new era in capital ship construction was close at hand.  Refurbished in 1921, she was jokingly referred to as the World's Deadliest Pre-Dreadnought by her crew, despite the reality that she would fall short even in that regard.

Over the course of the spring, she'll be repurposed as the new centerpiece of the Stockholm Museum of History, drawing memories from the aged and wonder from the young.

28 June 1931

The battleship Friedrich Herschel commissions into the Navy, joining her sister Johan Gadolin in Battle Squadron Four of the High Seas Fleet - the Znakomity's former tasking.

Herschel displaces three times more than Znakomity, and her eight-gun 400mm battery dwarves Znakomity's four 280mm guns, making it fairly evident why the aged pre-dreadnoughts are no longer in service. 

Herschel is the last of six capital ships built under Phase 3 of the Union's Naval Replacement Program.  She and her sister are operationally compatible with the slightly older and less-big Encke class as well as the Czarownik class cruisers of the line, all mounting 400mm guns and capable of at least 27 knots. 

It is not clear that there will be a Phase 4 in quite the same way as the previous phases.  The recently laid down Ingenhousz is the first ship, her sister Joachim Jungius will be the second, and a second pair of similar battleships is expected, but the navy has not publicly committed to specific plans for armored cruisers or cruisers of the line.

Okay a small transom and 1934 engine year gives me 31.6 knots and another ten tonnes or so of deck cargo.

Speaking of korsarz, another look at a new class.  This one's built with less emphasis on launching MTB attacks and a bit more emphasis on a fast transport/rapid strike capability.  This means fewer davits and more raw cargo capacity.  In theory, the following missions could be performed:

-MTB strike:  4 x 20t MTB in davits and another two stored on the aft deck, with about 32 boat-loads of wet/dry stores aboard.

-MTB tender:  As above, but additional MTBs in company as well as those carried aboard.

-Naval infantry strike:  120 marines and 30 boat/vehicle crew, with up to 4 to 6 landing craft or gun tubs and possibly some light vehicles on the aft deck

-Fast transport:  Up to 600 personnel for 24 hrs plus additional deck cargo in lieu of landing craft, on top of existing stores capacity and possibly some off-loading of bunkerage.

I considered a fast minelaying capability but figured that would require actual refits to switch roles, whereas the above is a matter of what is in the davits and what stuff is on the deck.

A full 32 knots would be nice, and I may sim the effects of a transom and see if it's worth waiting a year.



Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1933

Displacement:
    4,485 t light; 4,683 t standard; 5,371 t normal; 5,921 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
    (509.28 ft / 495.41 ft) x 49.21 ft x (15.42 / 16.61 ft)
    (155.23 m / 151.00 m) x 15.00 m  x (4.70 / 5.06 m)

Armament:
      4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
      Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1933 Model
      2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      8 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.19lbs / 1.90kg shells, 1,500 per gun
      Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
      2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
        2 raised mounts
      2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
        2 raised mounts
      8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
      Machine guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
      4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
        4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 305 lbs / 138 kg

Armour:
  - Gun armour:    Face (max)    Other gunhouse (avg)    Barbette/hoist (max)
    Main:    1.97" / 50 mm    0.79" / 20 mm        1.97" / 50 mm
    2nd:    0.59" / 15 mm          -                  -
    3rd:    0.59" / 15 mm          -                  -

Machinery:
    Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
    Geared drive, 2 shafts, 54,960 shp / 41,000 Kw = 31.07 kts
    Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
    Bunker at max displacement = 1,238 tons

Complement:
    313 - 407

Cost:
    £1.937 million / $7.749 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
    Armament: 71 tons, 1.3 %
      - Guns: 71 tons, 1.3 %
    Armour: 20 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armament: 20 tons, 0.4 %
    Machinery: 1,601 tons, 29.8 %
    Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,741 tons, 32.4 %
    Fuel, ammunition & stores: 885 tons, 16.5 %
    Miscellaneous weights: 1,052 tons, 19.6 %
      - Hull below water: 300 tons
      - Hull above water: 300 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 352 tons
      - Above deck: 100 tons

Fittings:
-200 t:  Wet stores (fuel oil or diesel) (BW)
-100 t:  Dry stores (ammunition, supplies) (BW)
-300 t:  Accommodation for 150 (long term) or 600 (surge) personnel (AW)
-160 t:  Four sets of heavy davits (20 t light craft + cargo) (FD)
-192 t:  Combination of deck cargo and up to 6 x 20 t MTB, landing craft, or gun-tubs (FD)
-25 t:  LR wireless (AD)
-25 t:  Huelsmeyer device/early radar (AD)
-25 t:  Operations centre for marines/whoever (AD)
-10 t:  Night-fighting doodads (AD)
-8 t:  Fire control (AD)
-7 t:  Weight reserve (AD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
    Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
      4,719 lbs / 2,140 Kg = 70.4 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
    Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
    Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
    Roll period: 14.2 seconds
    Steadiness    - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
            - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.16
    Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
    Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
      a normal bow and a cruiser stern
    Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.512
    Length to Beam Ratio: 10.07 : 1
    'Natural speed' for length: 22.26 kts
    Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
    Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
    Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
    Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
    Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
                Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:    20.00 %,  24.61 ft / 7.50 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forward deck:    40.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Aft deck:    20.00 %,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Quarter deck:    20.00 %,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Average freeboard:        16.93 ft / 5.16 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
    Space    - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 115.3 %
        - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 168.6 %
    Waterplane Area: 16,244 Square feet or 1,509 Square metres
    Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
    Structure weight / hull surface area: 68 lbs/sq ft or 331 Kg/sq metre
    Hull strength (Relative):
        - Cross-sectional: 0.87
        - Longitudinal: 1.21
        - Overall: 0.90
    Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
    Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
    Excellent accommodation and workspace room
    Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

January 1st, 1932

An announcement goes out on the newswires, as well as diplomatic cables.

The Crown Prince and Princess Royal announce a royal pregnancy.  The Princess Royal is in excellent health and following her doctor's instructions, and is currently in seclusion at the Royal Villa in Arizona at her request to convalesce during her pregnancy.  Well wishers should send gifts and letters via the Palace at Tenochtitlan, and the Princess Royal will keep a limited schedule of guests at her discretion.



A letter arrives in Vilnius:

Aspas, I'm so happy.  If you would like to come see me, I'll be here in Arizona until the baby is born.  Ali is doing a sea tour for the next few months so it will be very boring here if you don't want to come. 

Shirin

The Baltimore above demonstrates a couple points
- doesn't need lower than 1.0
- still used small transom
- works out ok with our Misc weight 'guesses'.

The Brooklyn was difficult to model.
This is the USS Brooklyn class.
Getting it 'right' is somewhat critical, as it would mark
- turrets in cruisers
- 0.9 comp hull @10,000 tons
- which transom stern to use. (Small)

The Armor has been the hardest part.
The New Orleans Class had a Magazine Boxes, and then a thin belt.
Unlike the preceeding classes the Magazine boxes on the New Orleans were not above the waterline.

However, most resources give a 5" belt for the Brooklyn class, which gives a composite strength of 0.90, but other speak of mixed armor.
The heavier belt certainly seems to have been true of the cruiser designs that followed after this class, with the magazine box retained for additional armor.

The www.navygeneralboard.com  page states
"Armor protection was light, though not non-existent. The main armored belt was 5" (127mm) over the machinery with lighter armor of 2" (51mm) over the 6" magazines. It might seem odd to have a lighter belt over the magazines but the cruisers had thicker 6" (152mm) protecting the barbettes of the main armament.  Deck armor was about 2" (51mm) at its thickest.  The turrets featured armor of 6.5" (165mm) on the faceplates and 2" (51mm) roofs."

That description makes sense if they were considering the Magazine box thickness as the 'barbettes',
and then a 2" belt abutting that magazine armor. 

If that is the case with Brooklyn, then a magazine box & 2" belt abreast, but 5" elsewhere  would SIM the ship
which it does for a composite strength of 0.91

US Cruisers says that it is 1" less at the magazines than the New Orleans Class. The New Orleans class were 5.75" at the magazines, so a Brooklyn should be 4.75".

A 2" Belt and Deck with a magazine box adding 2.75" would bring it up to 4.75".

So that's how it's been modeled.

Belt Armor
88t    2" belt Belt adjacent to Magazine : 65ft
656t  5" Belt over Machinery & for flotation : 293ft (325ft)
-----
744

Deck Armor
83t   2.75" magazine box
64t   1.5" deck forward of magazines
870t  2".0 deck Citadel & Aft
----
1017


Light Ship should be 9456, inc 164t ballast, or 9292t
Standard was 9799.7,
normal 113799

This sim is
9792  light
10263 standard
11700 normal

*SHP is the nominal 100,000, not the 101 gained on trials.
Design speed was 32.5knts
111,000SHP is needed to get the 33.7 the ship got on trials,
but that is undoubtably light ship, so riding higher in the water for less draft.

QuoteUSS Brooklyn, United states Cruiser laid down 1934

Displacement:
   9,792 t light; 10,263 t standard; 11,700 t normal; 12,849 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (607.74 ft / 600.00 ft) x 61.60 ft x (21.47 / 23.04 ft)
   (185.24 m / 182.88 m) x 18.78 m  x (6.54 / 7.02 m)

Armament:
      15 - 6.00" / 152 mm 47.0 cal guns - 112.35lbs / 50.96kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1934 Model
     5 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 5.00" / 127 mm 25.0 cal guns - 53.99lbs / 24.49kg shells, 200 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2,118 lbs / 961 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.87" / 124 mm   390.00 ft / 118.87 m   9.50 ft / 2.90 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.50" / 165 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      5.50" / 140 mm
   2nd:   0.13" / 3 mm   0.13" / 3 mm            -
   3rd:   0.13" / 3 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.21" / 56 mm
   Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 5.00" / 127 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 95,697 shp / 71,390 Kw = 32.82 kts
   Range 5,350nm at 20.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,586 tons

Complement:
   562 - 731

Cost:
   £4.452 million / $17.806 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 447 tons, 3.8 %
      - Guns: 447 tons, 3.8 %
   Armour: 2,407 tons, 20.6 %
      - Belts: 744 tons, 6.4 %
      - Armament: 591 tons, 5.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,017 tons, 8.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 56 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 2,753 tons, 23.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,000 tons, 34.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,908 tons, 16.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 185 tons, 1.6 %
      - On freeboard deck: 115 tons
      - Above deck: 70 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14,659 lbs / 6,649 Kg = 135.7 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a straight bulbous bow and small transom stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.516 / 0.528
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.74 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.28 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 16.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  27.00 ft / 8.23 m,  24.50 ft / 7.47 m
      - Forward deck:   40.00 %,  24.50 ft / 7.47 m,  22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  22.00 ft / 6.71 m,  20.53 ft / 6.26 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  20.53 ft / 6.26 m,  20.53 ft / 6.26 m
      - Average freeboard:      22.80 ft / 6.95 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 195.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,596 Square feet or 2,378 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 478 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.84
      - Longitudinal: 1.62
      - Overall: 0.90
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

misc
45t FC
25t LR radio

5t paravanes
80t 4x floatplanes
10t - 2x Catapults
20t - hanger in stern

This was a ship I had mostly completed- the USS Baltimore.
The design seems to use a transom, which makes the numbers work out pretty well.

On the Brooklyn, I am still trying to decide if it mimiced New Orleans's mag box + thin belt, or the later ships mag box + heavy belt. Baltimore is clearly past that change,
and I strongly suspect Brooklyn IS that change point.

But really I shouldn't even be pausing to post this, I should be doing other things, but procrastination is one of the few things I'm really really good at !

QuoteUSS Baltimore, USA Heavy Cruiser laid down 1941

Displacement:
   14,391 t light; 15,291 t standard; 16,942 t normal; 18,263 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (674.32 ft / 664.00 ft) x 70.81 ft x (24.02 / 25.43 ft)
   (205.53 m / 202.39 m) x 21.58 m  x (7.32 / 7.75 m)

Armament:
      9 - 8.00" / 203 mm 55.0 cal guns - 334.99lbs / 151.95kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1941 Model
     3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      12 - 5.00" / 127 mm 38.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 500 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1941 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 double raised mounts
      48 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 56.3 cal guns - 2.05lbs / 0.93kg shells, 2,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1941 Model
     12 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      28 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 0.26lbs / 0.12kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1941 Model
     28 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      28 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,782 lbs / 1,716 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.25" / 133 mm   431.60 ft / 131.55 m   10.50 ft / 3.20 m
   Ends:   2.50" / 64 mm   232.38 ft / 70.83 m   10.50 ft / 3.20 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.30" / 160 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.75" / 19 mm      0.75" / 19 mm
   3rd:   0.13" / 3 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.13" / 3 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 3.30" / 84 mm
   Forecastle: 2.50" / 64 mm  Quarter deck: 2.50" / 64 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 6.50" / 165 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 120,009 shp / 89,526 Kw = 33.06 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,972 tons

Complement:
   742 - 965

Cost:
   £8.033 million / $32.134 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,055 tons, 6.2 %
      - Guns: 1,055 tons, 6.2 %
   Armour: 3,888 tons, 22.9 %
      - Belts: 1,211 tons, 7.1 %
      - Armament: 655 tons, 3.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,930 tons, 11.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 92 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 3,171 tons, 18.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,933 tons, 35.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,551 tons, 15.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 343 tons, 2.0 %
      - On freeboard deck: 95 tons
      - Above deck: 248 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     23,567 lbs / 10,690 Kg = 92.1 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a straight bulbous bow and small transom stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.525 / 0.535
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.38 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 27.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 16.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  29.00 ft / 8.84 m,  25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  25.00 ft / 7.62 m,  21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  21.00 ft / 6.40 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Average freeboard:      22.07 ft / 6.73 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 180.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 32,836 Square feet or 3,051 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 631 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.36
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Displacements in US Cruisers is confusing, I think because the summary table combines data from different vessels in the series.

Full load is given as 17031, which likely lines up with the "Normal" of 16942.

Standard is listed but specified as 1/2 stores and 5gal water per man, which is not the Standard of the treaty.

There is a Light ship of 12576-13040.

I dunno- Length, beam, draft, BC, range are all right. #shells/gun come from Navweaps.
Freeboard is calculated from "hull depth" listed.

With Small Transom, 120,000shp yields the 33 knot speed typically cited.
Design speed was 34 knots, but trial speed was 33 knots.

trial was 133,649 for 33knots
design was 120,000 for 33.5 knots
CA29 made 32.85knts  at 118536ihp at 16570tons
Pittsburgh did 33knts at 16200,
original trial disp 15800-15900

US cruisers gives 10,000/15 as design, and 7900/15 as service.


Armor :
Belt
The belt is very hard to figure out.
The earlier USN cruiser belts were 9.5ft high ...I think.
I believe they were deepened, but I can't find to what.
Based on beam, this defaults to 10.1 feet.

Aslo this one tapered from 6" to 3"
Further, the USN took to using thinner belts abreast the magazine, but
backed by what seems to be a magazine box.

So I am going to model this as 10.5 feet high,
with the last 2 feet tapering down from 6" to 3"  adjacent to machinery
and the last 2 feet tapering down from 3" to 2" adjacent to magazines
all of which makes 4 belt sections.
And with the belt over magazines and that over machinery seperate.


91.14 feet for Magazine Belt
340.46 feet for Machinery Belt

150t   91.14ft x 8.5' @ 3"
29t     91.14ft x 2' @ 3->2"

686    304.46 x 8.5' @ 6"
121   304.46 x 2' @ 6->3"
-----
986t
= average thickness 5.25"

Deck
1531t        2.5" Deck
295t          2.5" box over magazines
100t          1" floor under magazines (from US cruisers)
-------
1926

Weight Budgeted : 1930t

Miscellaneous Weight

AD
98t   Fire Control
25t     LR Radio
125t   5 Radars

OD
5t  Paravanes
80t  4x Scout floatplanes, stern hanger
10t  2x Stern CATs

Quote from: TacCovert4 on May 11, 2024, 09:30:19 PMMaybe Small Transom on ships under 10,000t is a 1933 or 34 tech, and Large Transom for Ships under 3001 tons is a 1936 or 38 tech?

Unless we have further Destroyer type things to 'unlock', consolidating all transoms on Cruisers is my preference.

Doing as you suggest and splitting them Large/Small seems reasonable,
perhaps the 3000t limit as the breakpoint.

An upper tonnage limit does not seem required.
Both Alaska and Baltimore appear to have transom sterns, and I could swear I read it was considered for the Nelson class (where it would not do much).

Sadly I've got some other pressing things, so I am not playing with ship designs for a bit, or reading books. My efforts at Brooklyn require reading a tad more, and I think Baltimore is close to done. I want to try some more small cruisers, or perhaps the French Super-Destroyers, and I haven't started on revisiting the Colossus class.

Maybe Small Transom on ships under 10,000t is a 1933 or 34 tech, and Large Transom for Ships under 3001 tons is a 1936 or 38 tech?

Cruiser rules
The idea of trying 'RW' ships is to see if our Rule set works vs. SS.
Something like Aresthusa isn't possible under our rules, and to me that's a problem. Likewise there's the issue of cruisers using turrets, more welding, high stresses accepted on the hulls, more destroyer like machinery...all of which should reduce weights, and adopted in the 1920s-30s, so I'm curious if our 0.9 threshold should move.

Transom
While there were some designs with transoms in the 1920s, they seem to have been really adopted in the 1930s by some nations. Seems a difference between theory and adoption, and also that they pay off more in the high speed ranges not used much WWI & Interwar.

Using Brooklyn as evidence, for the tech to be available in 1934, a 1932 Cruiser tech would need to be available.


Fletcher Class
I've used some British interwar destroyers as base designs before, my 'Pirate' grew out of the 'R' Class, but never have tried USN WW2 designs.
I do have Friedman's book, but have not found the reading time to get far into it.

Looks like perhaps I should borrow that hull form :)

1.Belt Length - Walter (Roojen) and I explored that early. The volume is the underwater hull, probably comprising the entire citadel area.

My understanding was not all Destroyer engines wholey fit below the waterline, making them more difficult to protect.

Further, destroyers were built with few redundant systems, the machinery used was lightweight, more prone to breaking and high PSI. So the volume is likely off.

Walter's math said that up to 133% would be the volume below WL, so we used that as the design guideline for where protective decks work.

2. Snip did some work on Destroyer seakeeping, and decided 0.76 was plenty.
In the Caicos war he did loose a couple 0.67 seakeeping in a hurricane.

Some comments in US Destroyers, and I think elsewhere, seem to indicate that the normal top speed of a DD was 3-4 knots under trials, and that they really could only hit those in low sea states. Basically, reported Destroyer top speeds are not indicative of their operational top speeds.
I still aim for 1.0.

3. The Box choice in SS is ~3m(3.5?) high as I remember.
  I expect the path here is to sim the belt as 0.25" and specify the bulkheads of the box are 0.75".


4. There's discussion in US Cruisers & Destroyers on how the original shell loadouts were ~200, with room for ~400, but as the war went on they found they needed more. The text here talks about some designs with 480 and some with 600.
They may have decided to plan 'mobilization' space for 600, but plan on less for
other reasons such as meeting a chosen speed.

5. Hmm, so apparently Large Transom should be in the conversation for Destroyers.

*argh* almost lost another post.

Basic refit of the Rybolow class korsarz is much the same as everything else:  New armament, new FC, a bit of fiddle-farting around the edges.

Cost looks to be $0.18 and 0.112 BP each, with two units.



Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1917

Displacement:
   4,356 t light; 4,507 t standard; 4,880 t normal; 5,178 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (491.08 ft / 482.28 ft) x 45.93 ft x (15.42 / 16.13 ft)
   (149.68 m / 147.00 m) x 14.00 m  x (4.70 / 4.92 m)

Armament:
      4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1917 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 288 lbs / 131 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 45,577 shp / 34,000 Kw = 30.07 kts
   Range 8,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 671 tons

Complement:
   291 - 379

Cost:
   £0.752 million / $3.009 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 66 tons, 1.4 %
      - Guns: 66 tons, 1.4 %
   Armour: 19 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armament: 19 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,671 tons, 34.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,609 tons, 33.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 524 tons, 10.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 991 tons, 20.3 %
      - Hull below water: 148 tons
      - Hull above water: 300 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 480 tons
      - Above deck: 63 tons

Fittings:
-148 t:   Fuel and ordnance for small craft (BW)
-300 t:  Accommodation for 150 small craft people (AW)
-480 t:  Davits and eight 20t small craft (FD)
-25 t:  L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t:  Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-10 t:  Small Huelsmeyer device (AD)
-7 t:  Fire control (AD)
-11 t:  Weight reserve (AD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,498 lbs / 1,587 Kg = 52.2 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 14.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.19
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.507
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.96 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  21.98 ft / 6.70 m,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Forward deck:   40.00 %,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Aft deck:   20.00 %,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.45 ft / 5.32 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 126.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 164.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 14,759 Square feet or 1,371 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 64 lbs/sq ft or 312 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.85
      - Longitudinal: 1.50
      - Overall: 0.90
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Warning: Date too early for dual purpose gun - Main Battery

.132/.066
.019/.019
.027/.027
=====
.178/.112

7 FC, 10 NF, 10 DHD
LRW stays the same