The Dutch invite all sea-faring nations to join them in The Hague to discuss the recent proliferation of piracy, particularly in the Far East and Caribbean, and to discuss the rights of neutral vessels during wars at sea.
Please post who your nation is sending and in what capacity.
Minister of Foreign Affairs: Count Federico Luigi
Minister of War: Lt. General Ettore Bertolè-Viali
Minister of the Navy: Rear Admiral Augusto Riboty
+ a few dozen members of La Guardia Svizzera (=/= Guardia Svizzera Pontificia).
Capacity: Fully charged on day 1 and, according to the formula t = Qp/Ik, they can last a while as long as they are properly charged each day with proper food. ;D
Federico Luigi: *Gets up and reads from paper* "I would like to... thank the Dutch Govrnment to... uhm..."
Augusto Riboty: "No need to start right now. The other players haven't posted yet whether they will be sending someone to this meeting and who it will be."
Ettore Bertolè-Viali: "Yes. Even this Darman fellow, who started this thread and runs the Netherlands, has not indicated who will represent the Dutch at this meeting."
Federico Luigi: "But we need to start right away! In December we all get replaced by a new government!"
Augusto Riboty: "Considering that Navalism hasn't started yet, we all assume that this meeting takes place in 1869, but it is quite possible that Darman planned it for the start of 1870, which would mean we would have to leave and let the Lanza government members take over."
Emilio Visconti-Venosta, Giuseppe Govone & Stefano Castagnola/Guglielmo Acton: *waiving from the side door*
Emilio Visconti-Venosta (next minister of foreign affairs): "Better move over B-team!"
Giuseppe Govone (next minister of War): "Yeah! The A-tam is here!"
Stefano Castagnola/Guglielmo Acton (next two ministers of the Navy): "We are Borg. Resistance is futile. Prepare to be assimilated."
Federico Luigi: *groan* "God save us. Players! Hurry up! Send your teams over quickly before it is too late!!"
Emilio Visconti-Venosta: "Nonono. Just take it easy. We have a lot of time."
Stefano Castagnola: "We advice you..."
Guglielmo Acton: "... to take it easy..."
Stefano Castagnola: "... and think hard..."
Guglielmo Acton: "... as to whom..."
Stefano Castagnola: ".. you will send..."
Guglielmo Acton: "... to this meeting..."
Stefano Castagnola/Guglielmo Acton: "... in order to be assimilated."
Shooting Guardia Svizzera: "EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!"
Hovering Guardia Svizzera: "ELEVATE! ELEVATE!"
Blindfolded Guardia Svizzera: "MY VISION IS IMPAIRED! I CANNOT SEE!!"
Ettore Bertolè-Viali: "Quick trusty Guardia Svizzera! Take him out now!"
Shooting Guardia Svizzera: "I OBEY!"
Hovering Guardia Svizzera: "I OBEY!"
Blindfolded Guardia Svizzera: "I OBEY!"
Ettore Bertolè-Viali: "Excellent!"
Blindfolded Guardia Svizzera: "... BUT MY VISION IS IMPAIRED! I CANNOT SEE!!"
*Shooting Guardia Svizzera & Hovering Guardia Svizzera start fighting Stefano Castagnola/Guglielmo Acton*
Federico Luigi: "... I think it is better to hold a break and wait what will happen."
Other: "Agreed."
Emilio Visconti-Venosta: "There better be some cake. If there is no cake, we will riot!"
Other: "YEAH!!"
*exit all*
The US will send our ambassador to The Hague, Hugh Boyle Ewing, along with the naval attache' to the Netherlands. Ambassador Ewing will be representing the United States, and has full power to negotiate a treaty. His signature, of course, does not bind the US until the President counter-signs it after approval is granted by the US Senate.
Austria-Hungary will send it's naval attache' to the Netherlands, as an observer. [Austria-Hungary wants to know what's going on, and if it likes the results of the discussion, it will sign on later.]
The Netherlands will be represented by its Foreign Minister, Theodorus Marinus Roest van Limburg as well as its Prime Minister, Pieter Philip van Bosse.
France will be represented by its Foreign Minister, Théophile Delcassé; its Minister of Colonies, Albert Decrais;
its War Minister Gaston Callifet & its Minister de la Marine Jean-Marie Lanessan.
Her Royal Majesty, Victoria, Queen of the United Kingdoms of Greater Britain and Ireland shall be sending to The Hague George Villiers, 4th Earl of Clarendon, the administration's Foreign Secretary, Hugh Childers, her First Lord of the Admiralty, Granville Leveson-Gower, 2nd Earl Granville, her Secretary of State for Colonies, and the President of the Board of Trade, John Bright. The Royal representatives have been instructed to bring before the Convention the issues of declaring legally sanctioned blockades of ports, the rights of neutral vessels on the high seas to limited interference by belligerents during times of war, the rights of neutral ports to host belligerents' vessels for limited periods of time, respect of neutral waters by belligerent warships, and the arming of merchant vessels during times of war, among other considerations to be brought before the Convention at the proper time.
Japan will send an attache' to the Netherlands, as an observer. [Japan should not be considered strong enough to negotiate as a independent party yet and will therefore just watch and if the terms are acceptable, sign later.]
Quote from: Logi on September 12, 2013, 05:51:09 PM
Japan will send an attache' to the Netherlands, as an observer. [Japan should not be considered strong enough to negotiate as a independent party yet and will therefore just watch and if the terms are acceptable, sign later.]
[Japan is at the same level as all the other great powers, no?]
[Gameplay wise yes, but IC no. You'll have to completely make up extensive history for that to be even remotely true. If I'm going to rewrite some 300+ years of history prior to our sim start date, I might as well go and play Risk. I hate Risk.]
[The US is sending the local ambassador and attache' because it would be difficult for the US Secretary of State or Secretary of the Navy to perform their official duties when away from Washington for the extended period such a trip to the Hague would require. When you include period travel time of 9+ days each way from the US to the Netherlands, plus travel time within each country, plus the time required for the conference itself, we're probably looking at 6 weeks or more. A high-level Japanese delegation would require substantially more time to travel the distance.]
The mechanism of the Sublime Porte is lurching into motion.
If there were a standing ambassador from the Ottoman Empire to the Netherlands, it would likely be his responsibility to attend, but there is not.
So the bureaucrats debate as to whether or not a representative should be sent, and if so who.
QuoteIf there were a standing ambassador from the Ottoman Empire to the Netherlands, it would likely be his responsibility to attend, but there is not.
Why not? The Ottomans hate the Dutch? :)
Quote from: Walter on September 20, 2013, 04:45:56 AM
QuoteIf there were a standing ambassador from the Ottoman Empire to the Netherlands, it would likely be his responsibility to attend, but there is not.
Why not? The Ottomans hate the Dutch? :)
They dislike Dutch cocoa
The Ottomans don't have standing diplomatic presence (at least at the Ambassadorial rank) in most of Europe. Exceptions: Austria and Russia.
I expect most European capitals have an Ottoman mission headed by a career bureaucrat who does not have the authority to do much more than day to day consular business and message passing. Anything more requires dispatch of diplomats specific to the task from Constantinople.
This is a symptom of the state of affairs in the Empire, where the Sultan has absolute power in theory, but in practice is constrained by the over-large bureaucracy, and also a symptom of the Ottoman outlook, which largely ignores nations other than immediate threats, like Austria and Russia, and maybe the rising Italian state.
Of course, with the construction of the Suez Canal, this is likely to change. ;)
QuoteThis is a symptom of the state of affairs in the Empire, where the Sultan has absolute power in theory, but in practice is constrained by the over-large bureaucracy
Maybe the Sultan should go there in person. :)
Quotewhich largely ignores nations other than immediate threats, like Austria and Russia, and maybe the rising Italian state.
*hides Italy behind the curtains*
We're... uhm... we're... a state of... many independent states... We're like totally no threat to you, almighty Sultan. :D
Quoteconstruction of the Suez Canal
What construction of the Suez Canal?
... well I guess it really depends on
when these talks are being held, but maybe they're being held after the completion of the Suez Canal. You never know...
My understanding is that this is at the very start of the sim, so 1870, and we've stipulated that the Canal was completed as historical, so 1869 (or in other words, more or less right now).
And yes, speaking OOC, this is one episode in the evolution of the Ottomans into a functioning member of the diplomatic community.
At any rate, the Sultan is not partial to leaving the safety and comfort of Dolmabahçe Palace.
In that case, "existence" would be better than "construction".
The Sultan should take the risk. He can't hide in his Palace forever. :)
In the actual position, the French Foreign Minister, Théophile Delcassé hope to see the Ottoman Empire Delegation to the Naval Conference.
Suez & Dardanelle are important & Ottoman Empire is directly concerned.
Quote from: Foreign Minister Limburg's note to all representatives
1 July 1869
The Kingdom of the Netherlands wishes to invite discussion of the following subjects during this conference, which agenda will be followed strictly, it requires a 2/3 majority to add a new subject to the agenda and the Netherlands' representatives, as hosts of the conference, retain the right to determine the scope of discussion of the various subjects.
The first subject concerns the rights and privileges accorded to combatant prisoners of war taken at sea, as well as civilian detainees taken at sea during the course of maritime combat actions, as well as the proper treatment of the wounded.
It is requested that discussion then move on to the proper identification and treatment of ships designated as hospital ships, run by government military or civilian authorities, both neutral as well as belligerent.
Discussion will then be allowed on international piracy, navigation of straits and canals, and the legal status of blockades.
Regulations for the use of electric and automatic torpedoes [mines] must be decided upon lest this scourge present a significant hazard to navigation the world over.
The Conference will end with a discussion of the roles of neutral ports and shipping and the obligations of neutrals as well of belligerents towards neutrals, especially the construction and arming of vessels intended for delivery to belligerents in neutral ports.
[Edit: my apologies to KWorld]
*If sick, wounded, or shipwrecked persons are taken on board a neutral vessel of war, every possible precaution must be taken that they can not again take part in the operations of the war.
*The shipwrecked, wounded, or sick of one of the belligerents who fall into the power of the other are prisoners of war. The captor must decide, according to circumstances, whether to keep them, or to send them to a port of his own country, to a neutral port, or even to an enemy port. In this last case, prisoners thus repatriated cannot serve again while the war lasts.
* The shipwrecked, sick, or wounded, who are landed at a neutral sort with the consent of the local authorities, must, unless an arrangement is made to the contrary between the neutral State and the belligerent States, be guarded by the neutral State so that they can not again take part in the operations of the war.
The expenses of caring for them in hospital. and interning them shall be borne by the State to which the shipwrecked, sick, or wounded persons belong.
* After every engagement, the two belligerents, so far as military interests permit, shall take steps to look for the shipwrecked, sick, and wounded, and to protect them, as well as the dead, against pillage and ill treatment.
They shall see that the burial, whether by land or sea, or cremation of the dead shall be preceded by a careful examination of the corpse.
* Each belligerent shall send, as early as possible, to the authorities of their country, navy, or army the military marks or documents of identity found on the dead and a list of the names of the sick and wounded gathered up by him.
The belligerents shall keep each other informed as to internments and transfers as well as to the admissions into hospital and deaths which have occurred among the sick and wounded in their hands. They shall collect all the objects of personal use, valuables, letters, &c., which are found in the captured ships, or which have been left by the sick or wounded who died in hospital, in order to have them forwarded to the persons concerned by the authorities of their own country.
The US Naval Attache' commented,
"On the issue of repatriated prisoners, the treaty should probably state that repatriated prisoners can not again take part in operations of the war, unless other arrangements are made by the warring sides."
"Also, of course only soldiers or sailors or members of the opposing sides government should be considered prisoners of war, as opposed to enemy civilians, unless they were engaged in some act that would change their status."
The proposed provisions have been edited to take into account the concerns of the representatives of the United States. If there are no other recommended additions or deletions then a poll will be taken to seek approval for this section of the treaty.
Quote
*If sick, wounded, or shipwrecked persons are taken on board a neutral vessel of war, every possible precaution must be taken that they can not again take part in the operations of the war.
*The shipwrecked, wounded, or sick combatants of one of the belligerents who fall into the power of the other are prisoners of war. Civilians of belligerent nations are never to be considered prisoners of war unless engaged in actions of a military nature, or actively aiding and abetting their country's war effort. The captor must decide, according to circumstances, whether to keep them, or to send them to a port of his own country, to a neutral port, or even to an enemy port. In this last case, prisoners thus repatriated can not again take part in operations of the war, unless other arrangements are made by the warring sides. Civilians rescued from captured vessels should be sent to their home country wherever possible, or its nearest representative port. If that is not possible, then transportation to a neutral or belligerent port must be guaranteed, with provisions for them to continue their journey to friendly territory.
* The shipwrecked, sick, or wounded, who are landed at a neutral sort with the consent of the local authorities, must, unless an arrangement is made to the contrary between the neutral State and the belligerent States, be guarded by the neutral State so that they can not again take part in the operations of the war.
The expenses of caring for them in hospital. and interning them shall be borne by the State to which the shipwrecked, sick, or wounded persons belong.
* After every engagement, the two belligerents, so far as military interests permit, shall take steps to look for the shipwrecked, sick, and wounded, and to protect them, as well as the dead, against pillage and ill treatment.
They shall see that the burial, whether by land or sea, or cremation of the dead shall be preceded by a careful examination of the corpse.
* Each belligerent shall send, as early as possible, to the authorities of their country, navy, or army the military marks or documents of identity found on the dead and a list of the names of the sick and wounded gathered up by him.
The belligerents shall keep each other informed as to internments and transfers as well as to the admissions into hospital and deaths which have occurred among the sick and wounded in their hands. They shall collect all the objects of personal use, valuables, letters, &c., which are found in the captured ships, or which have been left by the sick or wounded who died in hospital, in order to have them forwarded to the persons concerned by the authorities of their own country.