Have enough issues cropped up with Pre-Start stuff to where we want to redo it?

Started by snip, April 24, 2018, 09:44:08 PM

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The Rock Doctor

Has it been established whether/to what degree there's been a Columbian Exchange and its effects on population in the Americas?

Kaiser Kirk

I really should consolidate the history stuff somewhere :(

What was sketched out is that a Roman colony was established on the Canary islands around 23AD.  (which may be semi-historic, Hanno the Navigator visited in 5th century BCE, by 23AD but it was uninhabited with large ruins, while some Roman pottery dated 1st-4th century AD is found)

Over the next couple centuries they debuted better ship types and a tentative trade route was established to South America, as well as the West African coast. 
This link meant the Plague of Cyprian (Smallpox 250-270AD) was transferred to the Americas, where it spread like wildfire.
This coincided with the fracturing of the Roman Empire in 260 AD, into the Gallic/Central and Palmyrene - which eventually became Byzantium.

Trade between the Canaries and most of Rome understandably waned as the Empire declined, but sputtered onwards until the late 600s when the Muslims conquer North Africa. This means it the colony is able to transmit the Plague of Justinian (541-549) to the Americas.  The colony fades away after that and is forgotten.

The next contact , I believe, is the Norse. Pretty sure I read that Walter included that, he's got a marvelous history.

As a result, the Americas have already been exposed to the Great European plagues, as well as some of the West African, which historically wiped out 90% of the population....except that occurred 1400 years ago, and the descendants have now both recovered in numbers and developed some resistance.

Technology is also somewhat better as there was a multi-century  exchange from Rome, and I believe later the Norse.
However, the details of the various nations :  Confederation of the Five Nations, Azteca Domain, Peoples Republic of Maya, 4th Inca Empire, is really up to Snip. 
I'm guessing either Medieval or like the Indian nations in the 1800s.

As for the rest of the Colombian exchange - crop exchanges, etc, not developed.

See? Barely sketched out.
Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly,
Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
Did the band play the last post and chorus,
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

The Rock Doctor


Kaiser Kirk

Well the result should have been a 1492 population that would be much harder to conquer, for plausible reasons.  Thus leading to an uncolonized Americas for a much longer period.

Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly,
Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
Did the band play the last post and chorus,
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

Walter

QuotePretty sure I read that Walter included that, he's got a marvelous history.
Yes, you did read it in my small history list.
QuoteTechnology is also somewhat better as there was a multi-century  exchange from Rome, and I believe later the Norse.
I think that there would still be trade with those nations. A while back, I made a simple trade list of the Northern Kingdom and a few of the NPC nations.

- Heavenly Kingdom of China: Chinese tea, cotton, silk, rhubarb, cassia, nankeen (durable, yellow cloth), floor-matting, lacquerware, fans, furniture, porcelains, rice, soybeans.

- Confederation of the Five Nations: Buffalo hides, Buffalo meat, Wapiti hides, Wapiti meat, corn, tobacco, fruits, fish, cotton.

- 4th Inca Empire: coffee, asparagus and other vegetables, fruit, apparel and textiles, fish.

- Peoples Republic of Maya: coffee, sugar, bananas, citrus and other fruits and vegetables, clothing, fish products, molasses, wood.

- Northern Kingdom: potatoes, pork, beef, mutton, wool, veal, milk, fish, eal, Haggis (The horror! The horror!), Norse Tea (including Earl Grey), Norse alcoholic beverages, weapons, furniture, tools, machinery.

Kaiser Kirk

I expect Snip has an idea as to that.
I've tried to stay away from specifying what the NPCs are.
Considering that places like the Incas / Confederation/Maya are all states, and so seizing a province means you have to beat 10 Land points.. they are well armed.

My expectation is that in the late 1400s/early 1500s the Europeans started exploring per historical, but when they found the Americas, the inhabitants were far better armed and didn't conveniently die off.

So the history becomes more akin to when the Europeans reached places like Africa-where disease was a defense, or more advanced India & the East Indies.  In those places trade was established- and some trading enclaves, but widespread conquest was more of an 1800s thing.

For Parthia's stance, trade with the Eastern African seaboard has extended back to at least hundred years BC, probably further, as were routes to India and China.  I presume the Parthians, not needing to find a route to China, did not greatly participate in the "Age of Discovery".

Oh, I will note that I intend for the Parthians to have been the ones to outlaw the East African Slave Trade, and their African Squadron dates from that time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Roman_trade_relations#/media/File:Indo-Roman_trade.jpg

Which would make our efforts a little late, but we knew that going in. 
Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly,
Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
Did the band play the last post and chorus,
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

snip

Guys, a reminder that I need to have any colonial plans you wish to carry out so I can handle any overlaping claims. Please get these to me asap.
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

Walter

QuoteConsidering that places like the Incas / Confederation/Maya are all states, and so seizing a province means you have to beat 10 Land points.. they are well armed.
I assume that that is the Parthian way of trading. The Norse way of trading is carefully approaching them and flash those shiny boomsticks at them and try to convince them that those are nice tools to deal with their enemies in exchange for neat stuff like those I mentioned above. Why do you think that they are well-armed to begin with? *sells more arms to trade partners* ;D
QuoteOh, I will note that I intend for the Parthians to have been the ones to outlaw the East African Slave Trade, and their African Squadron dates from that time.
So... outlaw East African Slave Trade but keep up West African Slave Trade? :)
QuoteGuys, a reminder that I need to have any colonial plans you wish to carry out so I can handle any overlaping claims. Please get these to me asap.
The Norse colonial plans are to take over the whole world so I am pretty sure that their claims will overlap with those of others. :D

Jefgte

QuoteGuys, a reminder that I need to have any colonial plans you wish to carry out so I can handle any overlaping claims. Please get these to me asap.

A discreet landing at Guadalcanal...
"You French are fighting for money, while we English are fighting for honor!"
"Everyone is fighting for what they miss. "
Surcouf

The Rock Doctor

My news report provides hints of what I'm up to, but I'll have a plan to snip shortly.

The Rock Doctor

Can I not just post picture as attachments here? I really don't want to have to resurrect my Photobucket account.

Walter

Well, looking quickly around, it only appears to be available to posts and not pms.

The Rock Doctor

Any chance I could have a private (snip + me) sub-forum to do the colonial stuff in?  Lets me attach maps, and the conversation might be more coherent than going back and forth through messages.

The Rock Doctor

I have a feeling Rome, the Union, the Norse and the Iberians will all be jostling for the same territory.

Walter