France - 1900 & onward

[Jefgte]

Also, before Snip gets grumpy, I'll point out we've repeatedly been told not to put the torpedo tubes on that tab, just use misc weight.
Shame because I kinda like seeing it printed out.

TT are part of armament.
I know that SS didn't add TT weight in the overall.
so
TT are in the armament list & TT weight add in the Misc weight.

=> Note that France use TT on all warships.

[snip]

Also, before Snip gets grumpy, I'll point out we've repeatedly been told not to put the torpedo tubes on that tab, just use misc weight.
Shame because I kinda like seeing it printed out.

TT are part of armament.
I know that SS didn't add TT weight in the overall.
so
TT are in the armament list & TT weight add in the Misc weight.

=> Note that France use TT on all warships.

They need to just be in misc weight. Only Misc.

[Jefgte]

I like the little protected cruiser.
I keep trying to design one in the 3-4,000 range,
but by time my design parameters are met they are 5,000-6,000.

France could built a modified 4000t cruiser with Italian specifs.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I like the little protected cruiser.
I keep trying to design one in the 3-4,000 range,
but by time my design parameters are met they are 5,000-6,000.

France could built a modified 4000t cruiser with Italian specifs.

Thanks for the offer :)
The two problems are my specs demand too much from too little - I need to revise them downwards,
and that I don't have quite enough funds to even build my battleships full speed, so I won't be building any more cruisers for quite some time.

[Jefgte]

France study for Italy

Marcia, France CP4 for Italy laid down 1902 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   4 000 t light; 4 139 t standard; 4 586 t normal; 4 944 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (393.70 ft / 393.70 ft) x 52.49 ft x (13.51 / 14.36 ft)
   (120.00 m / 120.00 m) x 16.00 m  x (4.12 / 4.38 m)

Armament:
      3 - 5.98" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 108.07lbs / 49.02kg shells, 135 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      2 - 5.98" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 108.07lbs / 49.02kg shells, 135 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 13.62lbs / 6.18kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      Weight of broadside 595 lbs / 270 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.18" / 30 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 14 500 ihp / 10 817 Kw = 21.88 kts
   Range 5 000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 805 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   278 - 362

Cost:
   £0.482 million / $1.929 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 90 tons, 2.0 %
      - Guns: 90 tons, 2.0 %
   Armour: 351 tons, 7.7 %
      - Armament: 26 tons, 0.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 325 tons, 7.1 %
   Machinery: 2 243 tons, 48.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 280 tons, 27.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 586 tons, 12.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 37 tons, 0.8 %
      - Hull below water: 12 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2 440 lbs / 1 107 Kg = 22.8 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.91
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 9.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.06
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.27

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.575 / 0.583
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  14.76 ft / 4.50 m,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m,  11.48 ft / 3.50 m
      - Aft deck:   40.00 %,  11.48 ft / 3.50 m,  11.48 ft / 3.50 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  11.48 ft / 3.50 m,  11.48 ft / 3.50 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.07 ft / 3.68 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 164.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 14 765 Square feet or 1 372 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 66 lbs/sq ft or 323 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.02
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weight:
4 TT: bow - stern & sides
12t for 16 torpedoes (4/tube)
25t for long range wireless

[eltf177]

Marcia, France CP4 for Italy laid down 1902 (Engine 1900)

   Miscellaneous weights: 37 tons, 0.8 %
      - Hull below water: 12 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Misc Weight:
4 TT: bow - stern & sides
12t for 16 torpedoes (4/tube)
25t for long range wireless

Do the TT's require miscellaneous weight of their own or is that included with the torpedoes?

[Jefgte]

Do the TT's require miscellaneous weight of their own or is that included with the torpedoes?

12T is the weight for 16 torpedoes.
TT's installations are not in the misc. weight

[Darman]

Do the TT's require miscellaneous weight of their own or is that included with the torpedoes?

My understanding is that the 1t misc weight covers both the torpedo and its mountings, so if the torpedo is the one in the tube then the weight includes the tube, and every spare torpedo, the weight includes its own mountings/fittings. 

[Jefgte]

TB97 to TB108, France TB5 laid down 1902 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   500 t light; 517 t standard; 588 t normal; 645 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (229.66 ft / 229.66 ft) x 25.52 ft x (8.78 / 9.33 ft)
   (70.00 m / 70.00 m) x 7.78 m  x (2.68 / 2.85 m)

Armament:
      3 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.99lbs / 5.89kg shells, 180 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.19lbs / 1.45kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 76.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 2 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
      Weight of broadside 52 lbs / 23 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8 000 ihp / 5 968 Kw = 25.15 kts
   Range 2 800nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 128 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   59 - 77

Cost:
   £0.068 million / $0.274 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 10 tons, 1.8 %
      - Guns: 10 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 3 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armament: 3 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 345 tons, 58.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 126 tons, 21.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 89 tons, 15.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 16 tons, 2.7 %
      - On freeboard deck: 16 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     139 lbs / 63 Kg = 10.8 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.52
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 9.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.400 / 0.413
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.15 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  12.47 ft / 3.80 m,  10.50 ft / 3.20 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  10.50 ft / 3.20 m,  9.19 ft / 2.80 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  9.19 ft / 2.80 m,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m,  7.87 ft / 2.40 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.43 ft / 2.87 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 193.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 108.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 3 608 Square feet or 335 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 23 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 21 lbs/sq ft or 103 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.33
      - Overall: 0.55
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

2.4 tons for 4 torpedoes + 2.4t for 4 reloads
10 mines
Trial speed: 28kts
Bonus: 2.85

[Jefgte]

This AC6 class was canceled of the Plan.
I post it for Mike comparisons

AC6, France AC6 laid down 1902 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   10 000 t light; 10 481 t standard; 11 716 t normal; 12 703 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (485.56 ft / 485.56 ft) x 65.62 ft x (20.89 / 22.35 ft)
   (148.00 m / 148.00 m) x 20.00 m  x (6.37 / 6.81 m)

Armament:
      6 - 9.45" / 240 mm 48.0 cal guns - 441.76lbs / 200.38kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1902 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      8 - 6.46" / 164 mm 45.0 cal guns - 135.74lbs / 61.57kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1902 Model
     8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      6 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.99lbs / 5.89kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      6 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3 814 lbs / 1 730 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      2 - 17.7" / 450 mm, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m torpedoes - 0.669 t each, 1.339 t total
   submerged side tubes
      2nd Torpedoes
      2 - 17.7" / 450 mm, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m torpedoes - 0.669 t each, 1.339 t total
   submerged side tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm     98.43 ft / 30.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     26.25 ft / 8.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   1.57" / 40 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 114 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   2.36" / 60 mm      5.51" / 140 mm
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm         -         1.57" / 40 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
   Forecastle: 1.57" / 40 mm  Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 5.51" / 140 mm, Aft 0.22" / 6 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 21 000 ihp / 15 666 Kw = 21.10 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 222 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   562 - 731

Cost:
   £1.129 million / $4.516 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 808 tons, 6.9 %
      - Guns: 803 tons, 6.9 %
      - Weapons: 5 tons, 0.0 %
   Armour: 2 270 tons, 19.4 %
      - Belts: 977 tons, 8.3 %
      - Armament: 393 tons, 3.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 837 tons, 7.1 %
      - Conning Towers: 64 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 3 281 tons, 28.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 359 tons, 28.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 715 tons, 14.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 282 tons, 2.4 %
      - Hull below water: 12 tons
      - Hull above water: 20 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 125 tons
      - Above deck: 125 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9 741 lbs / 4 419 Kg = 23.1 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
   Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 13.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 82 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.64

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.616 / 0.624
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.40 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.04 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   18.00 %,  20.01 ft / 6.10 m,  16.73 ft / 5.10 m
      - Forward deck:   32.00 %,  16.73 ft / 5.10 m,  16.73 ft / 5.10 m
      - Aft deck:   34.00 %,  16.73 ft / 5.10 m,  16.73 ft / 5.10 m
      - Quarter deck:   16.00 %,  16.73 ft / 5.10 m,  16.73 ft / 5.10 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.97 ft / 5.17 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 117.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 23 653 Square feet or 2 197 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 110 lbs/sq ft or 537 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.45
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather