Civilian ships

[Jefgte]

Finaly, Who want to add commercial maritime trafic with these rules?

[Darman]

Since you guys seem to want to add shipping lines and all this why don't we create a new stream of income from the shipping lines, and pay maintenance on our civilian ships?  (the money would come out of our civilian accounts)

[Jefgte]

Since you guys seem to want to add shipping lines and all this why don't we create a new stream of income from the shipping lines, and pay maintenance on our civilian ships?  (the money would come out of our civilian accounts)

- Certainly complicate to do with the harbors/countries movement of the ships.
- Minors countries are also disavantaged.
- Merchant fleets are created to give food for predators; raiders, submarines & planes.
- They are out of the budget, we pay only when we use them for military transport.

Jef

[Delta Force]

Since you guys seem to want to add shipping lines and all this why don't we create a new stream of income from the shipping lines, and pay maintenance on our civilian ships?  (the money would come out of our civilian accounts)

It would give Russia yet another disadvantage as most of my trade is by railway and steamboats, not oceangoing ships. Of course if I raid other countries they will be hurt greatly, but I won't have the income to begin with.

[Darman]

Since you guys seem to want to add shipping lines and all this why don't we create a new stream of income from the shipping lines, and pay maintenance on our civilian ships?  (the money would come out of our civilian accounts)

It would give Russia yet another disadvantage as most of my trade is by railway and steamboats, not oceangoing ships. Of course if I raid other countries they will be hurt greatly, but I won't have the income to begin with.

I think if people want to sim out their merchant ships, all well and good, have a blast.  I don't think we need to figure out shipping routes and what ships run what routes.  If we wanted to do routes and get into that level of detail then I'd like to have some sort of economic benefit.  I'm not advocating this course of action, I'm just saying that since we are getting into that sort of detail we may as well go the full 9 yards. 

As for Russia being at a disadvantage, I would advocate that any trade route you could have your ships run on for a profit would have to between two sovereign nation's ports.  Domestic trade does not increase your treasury's coffers any. 

[Delta Force]

Russia fed most of Europe with grain shipments, but any trade with by railway or with landlocked nations won't be reflected. That and most of the grain was carried by foreign ships, not Russian ones.

[Darman]

Russia fed most of Europe with grain shipments, but any trade with by railway or with landlocked nations won't be reflected. That and most of the grain was carried by foreign ships, not Russian ones.

If we did allow such a system, then it would be up to the individual nations involved to negotiate how trade would be carried, by rail or by ship, and in who's hulls they'd be carried as well.  OTL is merely an outline and guide, both as to how to do things as well as on how not to do things (and I speak here about diplomacy and economics etc not warship designing). 

[snip]

All I see is more rules. Consider this a resounding no.

[KWorld]

All I see is more rules. Consider this a resounding no.

What could be useful, then, if there's no interest in defining the merchant ships of the world, would be to update hte 1900 route map I posted to consider the changes in who owns what.  There would be less of a route, for example, from the west coast of the US to the Philippines (since those islands are still in Iberian hands) and there would be a route from Iberia to her Pacific holdings.  This would still support commerce raiding, as commerce raiders could be sent to the routes.

[Jefgte]

...Consider this a resounding no.

Not cool.

We could just built fleet tenders with the actual rules.

...& made simply a list of private merchant Ships with characs., line... in case of war,
to give something to eat for raiders, submarines & aircrafts.

[KWorld]

...Consider this a resounding no.

Not cool.

We could just built fleet tenders with the actual rules.

...& made simply a list of private merchant Ships with characs., line... in case of war,
to give something to eat for raiders, submarines & aircrafts.

I tend to agree, while its not absolutely necessary that we have SS designs for merchants & liners, if there's going to be naval conflict, there's going to be commerce raiding (and protecting).  For that to work, we'll need some idea of where the ships to be protected or raided are, which means a chunk of this will need to be defined anyway.  I wouldn't bother with having this as an extra source of income, that's an unneeded complication. 

[Jefgte]

All I see is more rules. Consider this a resounding no.

Nothing to eat for Emden or Graf Spee...

:'(  :'(  :'(

[Nobody]

Sure it would be nice to have a functional merchant fleet, but really, do we want make a big effort for something that is complicated and unfair in more ways then I can think of?

You can always build as many civil ships as you like and unless you're at war, I don't think to have to pay upkeep for them.

[Darman]

Sure it would be nice to have a functional merchant fleet, but really, do we want make a big effort for something that is complicated and unfair in more ways then I can think of?

You can always build as many civil ships as you like and unless you're at war, I don't think to have to pay upkeep for them.

I'm building some merchant ships that are a sort of Ready Reserve for Japan.  I guess not necessarily ready all the time, but they were subsidized by the government and are used on local short-haul shipping routes and are the first ships that will be called up to transport troops if Japan ever has a need for them. 

Edit: Oh and I am planning on paying some upkeep on them of some sort or another. 

[Jefgte]

...I don't think to have to pay upkeep for them.

You have nothing to pay - 0BP-0$
They are private ships.
You just pay % of the disp full load if you use them for military transport.

5000tfl => 0.5$
10 000 tfl => 1$

We could reduce again the cost ...