GC 4Q1904

Borys · March 25, 2007, 03:47:17 AM

The following diplomatic note is hand-delivered to the foreign ministers of all American governments, as well as to all major powers outside the Americas. A copy is also hand-delivered to the ambassadors of these states to Gran Colombia

Similar steps are also undertaken by Island Commonwealth officials.

QUOTE
4 November 1904

Dear Sir/Madam,

It is my duty to inform you that, following a week of discussions, the nations of Gran Colombia and the Island Commonwealth have agreed to an amalgamation. Sir Edmund Fitzroy, the Island Commonwealth's ambassador to Gran Colombia, signed the legal text of the amalgamation agreement in Cartagena this morning at 03:34, witnessed by diplomatic representatives from several other states. Sir Arthur Murray, Prime Minister of the Island Commonwealth, has confirmed by wireless that he has also signed a copy of the agreement, as of 05:27, in Kingstown, in the presence of the Gran Colombian ambassador and representatives from several other states.

Under the terms of the agreement, the Island Commonwealth has now become a state within the Republic of Gran Colombia. The new state, which shall henceforth be known as Jamaica, shall enjoy the civil law and most of the cultural institutions it enjoyed as a sovereign state, but Gran Colombian criminal law shall replace the Island Commonwealth criminal code. We have asked that the existing government remain in service as the new state government so as to facilitate a smooth transition. Sir Edmund Fitzroy has agreed to assume the new position of Minister of Jamiacan Affairs within the cabinet of President Rey Alizandro.

The agreement comes following clear demonstrations to both states that the Island Commonwealth was unable to prevent third-party military intervention within its borders. The Island Commonwealth government wisely considered a voluntary amalgamation with Gran Colombia to be preferential to continued interventions from third parties. Gran Colombia commits to a genuine, peaceful integration with the remainder of the Republic, with the citizens of Jamaica enjoying all the privledges - peace, economic prosperity, high standards of living - enjoyed by other Gran Colombians.

Gran Colombia requests that the Eastern Kingdom now terminate the police actions undertaken in the past week in the area of Montego Bay. Gran Colombia recognizes and takes seriously the Eastern Kingdom's concern for Jamaican residents of Eastern Kingdom origin. We commit to allowing all such citizens, including those currently incarcerated, the right to emigrate to the Eastern Kingdom in an orderly and peaceful manner. We will provide generous compensation for lost property and for any misdeeds committed against these individuals by the Government of the Island Commonwealth.

Understanding that the situation in Montego Bay is in flux, we are willing to grant the Eastern Kingdom a period of seven days in which to remove its military forces from Montego Bay and the remainder of Jamaica as necessary. Where equipment is damaged or personnel are injured, they shall be allowed to remain under Gran Colombian supervision until such time as they are deemed fit to travel.

The presence of non-Gran Colombian military personnel or equipment under, in, on, or above the previously recognized international borders of the Island Commonwealth, now the Gran Colombian state of Jamaica, shall, after 23:59, 12 November 1904, be considered an act of war against Gran Colombia.

Should such a situation come to pass, any actions by third parties in support of said non-Gran Colombian personnel, including logistical support, may be deemed an act of war against Gran Colombia.

This said, Gran Colombia does not consider itself to presently be in a state of war against any third parties, such as the Eastern Kingdom.

We hope that you respect this legally binding agreement, freely entered into on the fourth day of the eleventh month of nineteen hundred and four, by the Republic of Gran Colombia and the Island Commonwealth.

Sincerely,

Rey Alizandro
President

OOC:

References to the "Island Commonwealth" and "Jamaica" include the Cayman Islands.

On 24 October, Gran Colombia initiated these discussions with the Island Commonwealth.

On 24 October, Gran Colombia deployed a police force comprised of two battleships, two armored cruisers, four protected cruisers, and eight torpedo-boats to Guatanamo Bay, via the Jamaica Channel. These forces, accompanying a number of requisitioned civilian craft, arrived on 26 October.

The Island Commonwealth was initially reluctant to respond to Gran Colombia, but events of 3 November prompted the decision to accept amalgamation. As the agreements were being signed, the Armada departed Guatanamo Bay at the fleet's best speed of 13 knots. With Kingstown being approximately two hundred miles away, the Armada arrived at approximately dinner time on 4 November. Offloading of elements of the IV Infantry Corps began immediately. Armada forces remained offshore, making steam and at action stations.

Gran Colombian forces will, over the coming days, bring the remainder of IV Corps to Jamaica for the purpose of securing the island and engaging in disaster relief upon the departure of the Eastern Kingdom police forces. A liaison group is being set up to ensure operational integration with local military units. Leading elements of IV Corps will set out for the cities of Spanish Town, Port Royal, Black River, and others before sunrise on 5 November; Montego Bay will not be approached until 12 November or the Eastern Kingdom completes the demobilization of its forces, whichever is the sooner.

Gran Colombia thanks the Eastern Kingdom for its commitment to human rights on Jamaica, and looks forward to fruitful discussions with respect to the emigration and compensation of Jamaican citizens of Eastern Kingdom descent.

If there are questions, kindly post in- or out-of character or PM as required, and I will reply in kind.

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Borys
Posted: Feb 9 2007, 07:42 PM

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Austrian Government circles, 5th of Noveber 1904

General opinion:
- maybe the Colombians are not exactly shining examples of Christianity, but they sure know how to keep reds in check. Hopefully this will not distract them too much from the siege of El Dorado. And no need for us to beat some sense into some socalism crazed gooks over there.
And they offer very generous, almost non-columbian terms.

The Habsburg state recognises the Anschluss of the Island Commonwealth, and the new borders of Gra Colombia.

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Ithekro
Posted: Feb 9 2007, 08:15 PM

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OOC:

Interesting...that would explain partly the "withdrawl" of the New Swiss forces. Rohan is still watching. They don't particularly like this settlement either, perfering an independent Island Commonwealth to "statehood", but it is slightly better than conquest. It's conquest without the bloodshed....and not even a hostile takeover. The actions of the Eastern Kingdom's Air Fleet probably pushed the remaining government officials to the Gran Columbians, as Rohan was just waiting to see what the Eastern Kingdom would do....and Rohan was not about to try to conquor the Islands...they have no real reason to do so, yet. Helps cover Cuba's southern approach, though it is its eastern approaches that are vulnerable. Of course the direction from Cuba is the one direction there would have been no Rohirrim ships on patrol.

Let's see what the Confederates and the Eastern Kingdom how to say about this one.

(I'm laughing because this is just the sort of trick that happens around the Caribbean it seems in Navalism)
--------------------------------------------------------------
November 6, 1904

"Well that make a fine mess messier." exclaimed Beraguard Parigal, Governor of New Beleriand. "Those Columbians seem to have the ways of the Caribbean memorized." Officially the Riddermark has not given its position of the Island Commonwealth becoming a state of the Gran Columbian Republic. Unofficially, Theocro King was heard laughing after reading the message from the Columbians, "So the test continues, just with a new professor."

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The Rock Doctor
Posted: Feb 9 2007, 09:54 PM

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QUOTE
"Those Columbians seem to have the ways of the Caribbean memorized."

Events in Cuba, Brazil, and the Island Commonwealth may suggest that, for better or worse, Gran Colombia has a fairly consistent foreign policy regarding neighbours in turmoil.

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 01:37 AM

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Borys
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 04:00 AM

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OOC
Ahoj!
In my not so humble opinion, the accuracy of glide bombs against moving objects is zero. Or have chances of hitting similar to winning the lotto.

So the changes to the original post are:
- in transit the EK airship drops something at the IC Squadron.
- upon landing the GC Division wipes out the EK troops

Borys

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The Rock Doctor
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 10:32 AM

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Please note that the sortie from Guatanamo takes place just after midnight on 4 November.

If the airships have time to arm for anti-surface actions, locate the Armada, and execute an attack, then we'll argue with the outcome. Surprising the Armada - in broad daylight in particular - is impossible; the airships will be seen and heard. The Armada will therefore have an opportunity to defend itself. We can also argue the effectiveness of the weapon technologies at that time.

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 12:50 PM

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Ithekro
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 01:03 PM

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November 7th, 1904

Theocro King of Rohan, declares the Kingdom or Rohan and all it's internal allies as neutral in the conflict between the Eastern Kingdom, the Republic of Gran Colombia, and the Island Commonwealth. The Haven of the Peoples will remain neutral as is there stance on world affairs. Air traffice over the Kingdom of Rohan will be allowed as it cannot be stopped, but airships transporting supplies, men, and arms to the conflict area will not be allowed to land in Rohan. Those that land will be subject to international law. Trade traffic will be allowed between the Eastern Kingdom and Rohan, or Gran Columbia and Rohan, but no supplies of war shall transit the Mark on land or by sea. The Fleet of the Mark will remain on patrol of the Caribbean Sea to defend merchants from aggression outside the Exclusion Zone. New Swiss vessels operating within the Caribbean Sea will be considered belligerent in this conflict until such time as the New Swiss government can clarify their precence away from their trade routes.

The Mark wishes for this conflict to end in a dignified manner with the Island Commonwealth returning to its independent state. Judging by the actions of the parties involved, the Mark is not hopeful of that resolution.

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 01:15 PM

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Ithekro
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 01:39 PM

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OOC:

Mind you that your airships are far larger than the battleships, and thus if you can see him, he can see you earlier (if they are looking). On October 24th there was a full moon in 1904.

Problem....hitting a moving target with a glider and at what range? Hitting anything that is moving at range from the air is a crap shoot. Even hitting any moving target period from land or seea is a crap shoot. Most of the time people miss at range. I don't image these have any way of being guided after release as such techology would be quite impossible at this time. Hitting a stationary target at anchor is another thing, and your accuracy wasn't all that impressive, about 18% hit stationary targets (19 out of 106) before dawn.

And you might be surprised by what a predreadnought's crew can do with what they have on hand.

Another question, are you going to attack everything that goes between Jamaica and Haiti? (I'm assuming that is what we are calling the Jamaica Channel) Because I think its 100 miles from Jamaics to Haiti. The French merchants might not like that.

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Earl822
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 01:45 PM

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And also at visible range, the ships main armament will be able to punch serious holes in those airships.

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 01:51 PM

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 01:55 PM

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P3D
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 02:01 PM

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You cannot hit moving targets with gliding bomb. If a gliding bomb takes one minutes to reach the target, at, say, 65mph (30m/s) you are reasing the bombs from 1nm. And not too high. That is well within the direct aiming range of any shipboard high-angle weaponry (say, jury-jigged antitrpedo guns). And even a pre-DN can easily evade your gliding bombs, as those are slow.

NTM that such a gliding bomb does not have a chance to sink a battleship. They are HE, and do not have the speed to break any decks.

Borys · March 25, 2007, 03:47:40 AM

Ithekro
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 02:08 PM

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OOC: Lets see, typical maximum elevation of a main battery for this time period I believe is somewhere around 15 to 25 degrees. Aiming would be diffifult, but on the other hand the target is about twice his size or more. At a distance his guns might be able to get hits, but closer in (where much smaller airplanes would normally attack from) he doesn't have many if any guns that can elevate enough to engage. Assuming the airships are between 3,000 and 5,000 feet, the question becomes how far out are the airships from the warships. The ship's main batteries should be able to hit surface target within visual range with 25 degrees of elevation, out to 12 miles. Of course the airships are about 1,000 to almost 2,000 yards in the air changes visual range for both sides, however hitting something that is moving at 12 plus miles away is quite improbable in an era where combat is generally within 6,000 to 10,000 yards. Little to no fire control, no director control. No radar.

Now the question, how far can your gliders glide from 3,000 to 5,000 feet in the air: two and a half miles, maybe three miles? The Columbians might have a long shot at getting telling hit while you approach. If they spot you and if they can train weapons on your ships at range with enough elevation to hit at your relatively low altitude...for an airship.

Just because they have no AA weapons doesn't mean they can't shoot at you.

Another techinal problem...your bombs are going to be coming in at a rather shallow angle, correct? They generally wouldn't hit the deck, but the superstructure, gun turrets, and hull of the ship at shallow angle of attack. Their could be deck hits as well, but that is a matter of luck at 2 miles out at 3,000 feet up

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The Rock Doctor
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 02:13 PM

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My instructions for this engagement have been sent to Maddox. If you haven't done so, Gabi, please do.

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Earl822
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 02:23 PM

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Unfortunately Gabi, I did several sims using Big Gun back when I was expecting Antares to be your target, at the 3000ft drop height of your glide weapons the 24cm guns of the GC AC's can blow your airships out of the air. And that is at an elevation of 15 degrees. As for a firing procedure, I reckon "Blow them out of the air"

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Ithekro
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 02:34 PM

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Aiming is tricky since this has probably never happened before. Gauging distance by shell splashes might not be possible or accurate. However the targets are larger than what the Colubians would be use to shooting.

It will be up to Maddox what happens after all orders are in.

All in all I think this well be a very interesting fight.

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 02:59 PM

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Earl822
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 03:07 PM

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cross vectoring my foot, these are new weapons, only used once against standing targets, the EK air commanders cannot have that kind of hindsight.

Maddox, I am now asking you to please set a limit on this kind of technology, stuff that even the Germans in WWII hadn't fully mastered.

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Ithekro
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 03:14 PM

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QUOTE
The glide bomb flies at 230 mph.

That depends greatly on your trim and airframe. Starting at a speed of 50 knots from the airship to reaching a set speed or distance depends greatly on your altitude and angle of attack on the glider. But hitting a moving target is still ballistics once it is released from the airship.

Remember, new technologies equals large learning curve.

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Ithekro
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 03:19 PM

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As for launching in a spread, that depends on how they are released from the airship. These are gliders not torpedoes.

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 03:23 PM

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QUOTE (Earl822 @ Feb 10 2007, 02:23 PM)
Unfortunately Gabi, I did several sims using Big Gun back when I was expecting Antares to be your target, at the 3000ft drop height of your glide weapons the 24cm guns of the GC AC's can blow your airships out of the air. And that is at an elevation of 15 degrees. As for a firing procedure, I reckon "Blow them out of the air"

No they cant.

At a range of 4 miles:

assuming a caliber of 24cm/45
Which is probably better than what they actually have.

GC1 24 cm/45

Caliber = 24.0 cm (9.4 inch)
Shell weight = 158 kg (348 lbs)
Muzzle velocity = 898 m/s (2945 fps)

Relative ballistic performance: 0.80

Muzzle energy = 63.689 megajoules = 23469.3 foot-tons

Relative muzzle energy: 0.87

Barrel length: 45 calibers

Elevation Range Time Velocity Fall Angle

2.5 deg 5500 meters 7.5 sec 609 m/s 3.3 deg
5.0 deg 9000 meters 14.0 sec 480 m/s 7.6 deg
7.5 deg 11600 meters 20.0 sec 408 m/s 12.6 deg
10.0 deg 13600 meters 25.5 sec 365 m/s 17.9 deg
12.5 deg 15300 meters 30.7 sec 338 m/s 23.3 deg
15.0 deg 16800 meters 35.6 sec 322 m/s 28.5 deg
20.0 deg 19200 meters 44.9 sec 308 m/s 38.0 deg
25.0 deg 21100 meters 53.6 sec 308 m/s 46.0 deg
30.0 deg 22600 meters 61.8 sec 315 m/s 52.3 deg
35.0 deg 23700 meters 69.7 sec 326 m/s 57.5 deg
40.0 deg 24400 meters 77.2 sec 337 m/s 61.7 deg
45.0 deg 24600 meters 84.3 sec 348 m/s 65.2 deg
50.0 deg 24300 meters 91.0 sec 359 m/s 68.3 deg

Armor Penetration - Vertical Belt Armor

(Relative armor quality, 0.80)

Maximum penetration: 60.00 cm

Elevation Range Belt Deck

1.2 deg 3000 meters 45 cm
1.8 deg 4200 meters 40 cm
2.6 deg 5700 meters 35 cm
3.7 deg 7300 meters 30 cm
4.1 deg 7900 meters ... 2 cm
5.3 deg 9300 meters 25 cm
7.7 deg 11700 meters 20 cm
9.1 deg 12900 meters ... 4 cm
12.0 deg 15000 meters 15 cm
15.8 deg 17200 meters ... 6 cm
21.3 deg 19700 meters ... 8 cm
21.4 deg 19700 meters 10 cm
27.3 deg 21800 meters ... 10 cm
33.8 deg 23400 meters ... 12 cm
41.3 deg 24500 meters ... 14 cm
49.4 deg 24400 meters 5 cm
49.9 deg 24300 meters ... 16 cm

Maximum range = 24600 meters at 45.0 deg elevation

So...

unfortunately earl, I ran sims as well. probably better than the sim you ran.

Measuring range against altitude firing at a maximum of 11600 yards.

user posted image

Looking at the graph...no. I'm 20 times more likely to hit him than he is to hit me.

user posted image

This one accounts for firing at a multitude of ranges and elevations.

Again...no...the shell's already curving downward by the time it gets to where my airship would be range and height wise.

Thats the problem with trying to use a gun thats not an AA gun.

user posted image

Now measuring Obliquity. Again, it's worse than a crap shoot.

He won't hit me with even his best guns there.

He will either overshoot or undershoot. And there is no in-between.

I just ran a highly complicated sim. I can make more if anyone has comments.

Now. Lets see your sim Earl!

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 03:35 PM

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 03:38 PM

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QUOTE (Ithekro @ Feb 10 2007, 03:19 PM)
As for launching in a spread, that depends on how they are released from the airship. These are gliders not torpedoes.

The gliders have flight control surfaces. elevators and ailerons. or aka wing flaps and tail rudders.

so no...they arent torpedoes (althought one carries a torpedo) but they can be banked and have their trajectory set in a similar way.

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Ithekro
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 03:40 PM

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A minute is a long time for time on target with a glider at four miles distance. Where as the Naval weapon at that range would reach a surface target in 14 seconds or less at that range.

I might note that your airships are flying at roughly 1,000 yards in the air at a maximum range of 7,040 yards (4 miles). The question is if your graphs y axis is in yards or feet. If it is feet, than you chart shows an inability to reach 3,000 feet. If it is in yards, you might want to assess that he can hit you even if it is on the downward angle at 7,040 yards.

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Borys
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 03:43 PM

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QUOTE (Gabi86 @ Feb 10 2007, 08:15 PM)

Ships fire on eachother while moving, with accuracy.

Submarines fire torpedoes at moving surface targets, with accuracy.

Ahoj!
a/ Yes, ships fire their guns at themselves with accuracy of about 1%. And shells fly much faster and at more predictable paths.

b/ torpedos are fired by submarines at close range, and their accuracy also leaves something to be desired.

Your flying bomb's trajectory can also be significantly altered by wind.

Using Montego Bay as an example is silly - these were immobile targets.

Borys

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 03:43 PM

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QUOTE (Ithekro @ Feb 10 2007, 03:40 PM)
A minute is a long time for time on target with a glider at four miles distance. Where as the Naval weapon at that range would reach a surface target in 14 seconds or less at that range.

I might note that your airships are flying at roughly 1,000 yards in the air at a maximum range of 7,040 yards (4 miles). The question is if your graphs y axis is in yards or feet. If it is feet, than you chart shows an inability to reach 3,000 feet. If it is in yards, you might want to assess that he can hit you even if it is on the downward angle at 7,040 yards.

It's feet.


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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 03:48 PM

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Borys · March 25, 2007, 03:48:16 AM

Borys
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 03:53 PM

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Ahoj!
BUAHAHAHA!
Notice it is World War, with radar and other gizmos. We are several generations of fire control behind.
We are using Mk I Eyeball and guns under individual fire control.

Another thing - this is an estimate - in Real Life the Iowa - at 30k yards - with end-on fire shot inefectively for several minutes at a fleeing destroyer.

Borys

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 03:55 PM

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 03:57 PM

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Borys
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 04:06 PM

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Ahoj!
You are hopeless, Gabi. Everytime I think you hit rock bottom with your ignorance - like using conjectured Montego Bay as example of effectiveness of your weapons - you grab a shovel and start digging. You don't know what you are writing about.

Firstly - there are no 200 meter warships in N-verse. And that 340 meters is all the difference in the world. Meh, ONE meter is all the difference in the world.

And you to hit you not only have to get the direction right - to fly through the spot the ship is in, but also at the correct height. For simplicity think of your target as a 150x5 meter box. Which is moving at 16 mph (note: miles, not knots). You aimed and fired. The ships turned towards your airship, as the idea of presenting the smallest target goes back to the battle of Salamis or something like that.

Your chances of hitting are infinitesmally small.

Borys

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Borys
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 04:08 PM

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Ahoj!
Me bad - top spot, not radar.
But pray tell us, our Font of Wisdom, when was Top Spot and everything else used by the Iowa in WWII introduced?

Borys

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Ithekro
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 04:16 PM

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As for techology, there are always limits to what is possible and what is not.

Your gliders might have control surfaces, but after they are released there is nothing to direct them to the target aside from its interal gyroscopic stabilization system to keep it level for a preset range.

Having them banked would again depend on how they are mounted and launched.

And I don't think they are mad due to the ability to kill our ships, but more from the seemingly overboard approach in which it is presented or the seemingly unbelievable nature of the beasts within not only the time period, but in relation to all historical accounts until the end of the age of airships. Meglomania is the perception of what is being done I would think. The glide bomb, such at the ones you are operating could be describe in 1944 as having "results [that] were unsurprisingly dismal". Of course those were dropped from bomber's wings. These are not end all weapons, nor do I have very high expectations of them based on previous results against stationary targets (the only thing glide bombs where designed to hit). I also don't believe the airship will reign supreme for very long if at all with the way even real world technology is built to counter ones weapons. If they manage to remain eqauls of the Naval ships then the Eastern Kingdom might stay a viable power for some time. I they get overshadowed by the cheaper to build and store airplanes, then the age of airships will have been short but violent and worthy of tales and song.

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 04:23 PM

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QUOTE (Borys @ Feb 10 2007, 04:06 PM)
Ahoj!
You are hopeless, Gabi. Everytime I think you hit rock bottom with your ignorance - like using conjectured Montego Bay as example of effectiveness of your weapons - you grab a shovel and start digging. You don't know what you are writing about.

Firstly - there are no 200 meter warships in N-verse. And that 340 meters is all the difference in the world. Meh, ONE meter is all the difference in the world.

And you to hit you not only have to get the direction right - to fly through the spot the ship is in, but also at the correct height. For simplicity think of your target as a 150x5 meter box. Which is moving at 16 mph (note: miles, not knots). You aimed and fired. The ships turned towards your airship, as the idea of presenting the smallest target goes back to the battle of Salamis or something like that.

Your chances of hitting are infinitesmally small.

Borys

God. your mean.

you never give up. i'm not even going to bother replying with insults. instead im gonna quote this on the world court. as well as in this post obviously. Because your a total forum troll. you cant control what you say or type evidently. i'm sick and tired of being harassed by you. and it's never anything productive.

your prime hobby seems to be flaming and trolling. particulary me. i mean, before this you called me a bimbo.

anytime somebody refutes your claims, you have a fit. I mean...you have this attitude that you cant be wrong. theres something wrong with you. go to anger management or something.

I mean I did the math behind that, and i was off about the 200 meters thing. okay, it's 121 meters long. not enough of a difference to throw my aim by that much.
but okay, one of his pre-dreads is 121 meters long.

Yes borys, i'm not telepathic. i tend to think of the Iowa's and such which are 200 meters or more long.

I did the math.

Now it's a 419 meter span.

Big deal? aiming in the path of the ship is likely to guarentee a hit.

I have a good chance of getting it into the correct vector if spaced at 25 meters. then all i have to deal with is overshooting or undershooting. and torpedoes are much better with that. they drop into the water and then theres no chance of undershooting.

If they turn towards my airships, it's worse. Because then I change the vectors so it's not spread. then I only worry about overshooting or undershooting again. the torpedoes are less effective in such a scenario. So then I have a 121 span long ship, and I only have to hit somewhere within that 121 meter long box. 5 meters wide? not if its turned toward me. then it's what...30 to 40 feet wide? or more.?

I have 5 airships, I can outflank him, and still do the cross vector thing. If they come at him from different angles and different sources (meaning different airships are all aiming at the same target), rather than all gliders from the same source, the chances of hitting are increased.

I can do that.
i also find the idea of his turning his ships. as if it'll help. he cant out-maenuver me. I can fly at 50 kts and have a tighter turn radius from the air perspective.

My chances of hitting are about five to ten percent. Especially depending on the formation of his ships. Are they side by side? or a triangle pattern?

he doesn't really have a chance. some of his ships are going down. it's only a matter of how many.

So infinitesmally small?

don't make me laugh.

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Ithekro
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 04:46 PM

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Actually Borys did point out something that makes things harder, both ways: Height

When firing at a ship in this era one can use shell splashes to change your ranges to get a hit on target, fire control is nearly non-existant, but does exist. Director control is non-existant at this point.

Your bombs and the Columbian's shells have to hit a target at considerable distance, and while thet are around 120 meters long (maybe 400 feet long) they are only maybe 10 meters tall at the spotting tops and the main body is generally 5 or so meters off the water so maybe 16 to 33 feet off the water at most. even if aiming on an angle the ship is only maybe 24 meters across (78 feet). If your range setting is even a fraction of a degree off, your bombs over shoot or fall short, and you probably don't have much in terms of rounds to launch if you are using spreads. If we use your earlier attack as an example, your 5 airships lauched 106 gliding weapons, so rougly 21 per ship. Fired in spreads of four maybe you have five shots with each airship....twenty five spreads total plus a spare weapon for each airship. I can't calculate the percentage chance of hitting as that is not my role here.

Now the Columbian gunners have a slightly easier target. If your airships are pointed at them they have a 28 meter circle to shoot plus your ships are 215 meters long. They will suffer from gravity so they probably won't be able to hit at all, but if your ships keep moving, then they will close the distance, and which point your airships will likely became targets for the lighter weapons on the ships, if they are not already in range at 4 miles out. as their 100mm and 50mm guns will likely have some that are deck mounted, and while damaging the mechanism would be a problem, I image some adjustments to get the guns to fire higher would be undertaken, especially if the Columbians know where they are going.

the odds are 5 to 16 in terms of numbers. Not that it means much, just that you'll have more targets than you can probably sink if they scatter to close the distance on you.

We may underestimate the Eastern Kingdom, but don't underestimate the Columbians either.

But in the end, it is up to Maddox and the dice I imagine.

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P3D
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 05:58 PM

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Gabi,

You do not have any bomber sights at all. Those you would need to even get a hit upon a stationary target (say harbor), nevermind individual ships. Glider bombs, as they have large aerodynamic surfaces, are inaccurate. You get much better accuracy with free-fall bombs.

And, if the Columbians starts evasive maneuvers (like turning toward your zeppelin, at 15 knots) you won't hit anything but the ocean. In 30 seconds they are already 200 yards towards you.

However, I agree that no high-caliber main gun can really hit you. But a 75mm HE shell from a field howitzer put on the deck can cause much more damage to you than your bombs to a battleship.

Turning toward the ships won't help much, with shells falling from above having a larger target area. Or make things worse, as bearing is much more easier to train than elevation (and your zeppelin, at 2 miles distance would offer a huge target half degree wide and about 2 degree high.


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Ithekro
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 09:59 PM

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I'm passing along the concept of this fight for opinions in my local gaming group to see what is thought of it.

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 11:19 PM

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 10 2007, 11:29 PM

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P3D
Posted: Feb 11 2007, 12:00 AM

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QUOTE

A 1000 lb bomb is going to tear a hole in the side of the ship.

Well above the waterline, hitting the upper armored belt. And there's no water here to confine the explosion like torpedo warheads. You might knock out a few secondaries, and provide job for the yards, but the ship would not be knocked out.

QUOTE

A good example is the Japanese kazmikazes of WW2. Think about it. They would blow holes in the side of the ship, flying at about 230 mph to 260 mph, in a fragile airplane that would break up upon impact. Now we have a extremely sturdy built bomb, flying at the same speed, loaded with somewhere in the vicinity of 700 lbs of HE.

How many battleships did Kamikazes sunk?

QUOTE

Secondly. They have a 4 mile range. Not 2.

Then the battleships have twice the time for maneuvers. Moreover, Your Zeppelin is still a huge target. And your glide bomb flies approximately 1:4-1:5 glide, so you have to set the distance with 50m precision to hit a target 10m tall, anywhere. Good luck, you need that.

QUOTE

I'm not saying they don't stand a chance. I refuse to underestimate them. But, there can be no mistake that I have the clear advantage.

And we are saying that you wastly overestimate the capabilities that you can cause to battleships. While any damage they can cause to Zeppelin will be lethal. H2 is flammable.

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 11 2007, 12:53 AM

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P3D
Posted: Feb 11 2007, 01:01 AM

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The guns cant hit me. it's an impossibility for the stats of the engagement.

Furthermore, airships keep moving, but not towards the ships. I can drop the glides and turn. Or I can mount them at an angle on the keel. Which it could literally drop them sideways.

Close the distance on me? The airships travel at 50 kts. The GC ships aren't going to close the distance. They'll be outflanked and outgunned.

You know, I do think I'm underestimating them. But only in discussion within this thread. secretly, I overestimate. As according to Sun Tzu. It's better to be over-prepared. Besides, my kingdom's honor is at stake. The Columbians are the ones who picked this fight. So now they got themselves a fight.

QUOTE

The problem isn't getting the guns to fire higher. Its that they shoot in a ballistic trajectory. They can't fire higher. The problem is the guns themselves. They just aren't A-A guns. And for maddox to allow them to function as such defeats the whole point of Research and development. The GC's didn't think AA guns were a priority, and now they dont have them. Isnt that the way
the system works?

That AA techs are against aircraft. Fast, agile and small. They start with small-calibre high-ROF weapons. A 75mm AA gun needs sume sophisiticated FC and VT fuses.
However, Zeppelins are larger than battleships. Hitting them, when they are within range is not a big problem. Even before aeroplanes were introduced in great number, ships already had anti-balloon/anti-zeppelin guns.
And these guns were simple anti-torpedo guns on high-angle mounts. And some crude sights. But, even without sights, the 10-15RMP from 4+ such guns will hot something.
Of course, if the Gran Columbian Armada does not have such guns installed, all they can do is to use howitzers fastened to the deck, against a zeppelin 4 miles away. If the Zeppelins are a bit further&higher away, they have no chance to hit the Zeppelins, but the zeppelin does not have much chance to hit them either.

Borys · March 25, 2007, 03:48:39 AM

Gabi86
Posted: Feb 11 2007, 01:06 AM

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Ithekro
Posted: Feb 11 2007, 01:09 AM

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The group's present reply is actaully a little enthusiastic (I was surprised, must be an area of interest), they think that the chance to hit is very low, but the bombing ratio for the stationary targets at harbor is reasonable. Bombing ships would yield less hits. However it was also stated that cleaver improvisors happen right away when threats happen. It might not yield many guns, but it would yield some guns. Research gets you purpose build weapons designed to AA work. Improve gets you modifed weapons that might work...they also might not work. We are not taking main guns here, but the lighter weapons, 100mm and under. For these ships likely 47mm and 65mm guns.

Also stated that the bombs, if they hit would do a lot to a predreadnought:
QUOTE
"Effect on the warships, 200 lbs of TNT would hurt. BB and armored cruisers have a degree of deck armor, ships specs would tell. As you know the bombs would need AP noses caps to get through armor, but if it is a big enough hunk of high explosive will still hurt. Most ship rules don't consider this. The Japanese HE in the RJW did much damage and it was just that, HE. Beau coup stuff, but not AP. A ton of TNT would hurt. I don't know what three inches of armor would stand up to. Oh! The superstructure was not armored. Just the main deck, to help protect the vitals. The rest would be blown to crap. But, again, hitting is the problem."

"Bottom line:
I think the bombs would miss.
If one hits the ship is toast. "

Bert R.

Now that is taking deck hits into account for the most part not belt hits. I'm checking them on that one.

They also recommend Kelly Country by A. Bertram Chandler.

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 11 2007, 01:19 AM

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Ithekro
Posted: Feb 11 2007, 01:37 AM

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Unfortunately it is direct email, not a board, so I can't link you directly.

Sometimes we play for the sake of playing...for the good fight. Winning to some of use doesn't matter really. As a GM, I don't care if I win, as long as the players are having a good time. It is the challenge. Some games we play there is not win...just doing as much damage as possible before you are destroyed. I've played games where I know I won't win. I don't even have a chance at winning. But and can make my opponent suffer while he wins, make him loss more than he expected. I still won't win, but at least I bloodied his nose. And every once in a while I do win due to a fluke in the roll.

But, I'm remembering now...this is the Gran Columbian news thread, not a comabt threat or a speculation thread. We've more or less threadjacked this one....sorry Rocky.

However that does bring up one question...have you sent your orders to Maddox so he can do this? All this anticipation and nothing to show for it yet.

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Earl822
Posted: Feb 11 2007, 02:51 AM

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The EK has spent many generations vegetating, and unlike its parent nation, the MK, it hasn't got the land power.

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Borys
Posted: Feb 11 2007, 04:04 AM

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QUOTE (Gabi86 @ Feb 11 2007, 06:19 AM)
But I do know one thing...whats the point of playing a game I can't win? think about that for a while.

Ahoj!
Oh, and a munchkin too.
Borys

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swamphen
Posted: Feb 11 2007, 11:18 AM

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The DKB recognises the annexation of the Island Commonwealth by Gran Colombia.

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JohnnyReb
Posted: Feb 11 2007, 11:35 AM

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Response of the Confederate States of America:

1. The CSA hereby recognises the annexation of the Island Commonwealth by Gran Colombia.

2. The CSA hereby cancelles the remaining reparations payments owed by the Island Commonwealth, effective 1 January 1905 (i.e. last payment Q4/04).

3. The CSA hereby rescinds passage rights by Eastern Kingdom airships for useage against the Island Commonwealth or associated forces, effective immediately. Any EK aerial forces utilising CSA facilities are cordially requested to complete operations and depart no later than 10 November 1904.

(signed) Theodore Roosevelt
President and Commander-in-Chief, Confederate States of America
6 November 1904

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Ithekro
Posted: Feb 11 2007, 02:40 PM

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OOC:

Well that will make the supply line more interesting.

Oh and Gabi, don't take that personally, it is the dangers of international relations. I'm very familiar with it from Wesworld. A good plan can get disrupted by any outside force based on their idiom, alliances, underhanded deals, or other factors. Chile of Wesworld nearly became a state to be denied everything and probably would have been at war with some larger nations (that was actually planned, but other nations derailed that plan even) based on a few storylines that didn't go over correctly. Now Chile is almost building or designing ships for other small nations, and it is trying to push forward for a more unified South America (enough to get some of the larger powers to take notice at least). Of course Chile is also now at war with Bolivia, but that is another matter (a nearly historical one at that).

Now the question will be what the Eastern Kingdom does, and if it decides to continue flying over the Confederacy...what the Confederates will do about it.

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 11 2007, 03:30 PM

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 11 2007, 03:47 PM

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deleted by me.

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Ithekro
Posted: Feb 11 2007, 04:01 PM

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OOC: That still means you will have to go out over the Pacific to get to Mesoamerica to fly over as both California and the CSA are between Rohan and Mesoamerica. Fly will be restricted over several coastal cities of Rohan (for security reasons).

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Desertfox
Posted: Feb 11 2007, 06:43 PM

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New Switzerland will stay neutral on this one. Those directly affected (CSA, Rohan, EK, GC, France, DKB) will receive a private note stating NS neutrality, the note will also state that the Exclusion zone is no longer in effect (it never actually was).

Austria receives nothing.

NS will not fight over a small island in the Caribbean.

Doesnt mean I dont plan to share in the spoils...

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Maddox
Posted: Feb 11 2007, 11:26 PM

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Battle Report

Midnight november the 4th 1904, the Gran Colombian battlefleet exits its anchorage at Guantanamo bay.
But all the stealth, all the efforts to hide this departure are wasted, as informers in the EK pay can get the message out. Even the concerned efforts of the men with straw hats cannot stop the Marconi message going out from the downed EK airship

As common in the tropical waters, the transition between day and night is short. But the grey twilight lingers.
A grey overcast hides everything between heaven and sea.

The Gran Colombian ships are at battle stations, warned by further Marconi from Cuba and heliograph messages between the ships. After the horrorstories of the massacres of the Airship attacks on Montego Bay and the subsequent conquering non of the captains and their fleet admiral slept soundly, nor did the crews, of which many did work relentlessly on potential defences against the airsharks who did demonstrate the ability to sink ships.

Then, it happens. A huge shape rips trough the cloud layer and makes its pounderous turn, keeping distance. More shapes follow. The Eastern kingdom airfleet is gathering strenght, getting in formation.

Gun crews on the warships waiting nervously. Lanyards stretched to the brink of firing. A last preparation done on a signal gun, the admirals silver cuttlery, freed without consent is dumped hastely in the muzzleloader from era's past.

As one, the airships take a turn, and close to 3 miles. The Admiral orders "hold fire, only shoot in defence"

The airships turn again, giving only the nose as target area. Dark specks make themselfs lose from the huge airships, who jump themselfs up into the clouds.

" Fire broadside 1, Turn 75° starboard" the Admiral commands.

Most of the specks veer off in all directions but some stay on course, directly into a hail of fire. 1 gets hit and explodes in mid air, pushing one of it's compagnions aside. The ships still in their turn can see more clearly what is coming to them. Bombs ,shells and torpedo's with wings.

"Fire at will"
Even the large front turrets now spew their thunder in the air. Some aim at the projectiles but most do a futile attempt to hit the airships.

Then, when the projectiles hit the water,these explode.

The airships, lightened by 1000's of pounds are hidden in the cloudlayer.

"back on course for the Islands".

8 minutes later, as if a single mind commands the airships, they decend from the clouds as one. Immediatly turning towards the warships, again specks are seen dropping, and the airships make their jump into the clouds.

The guns speak again, and some of the crews have gained more confidence, and it shows. Also, the Admiral holds the order to turn a bit longer, and the lighter guns get more shots of. Still the amount of hits is not to cheer about. 2 in the cloud of bombs are hit. The survivors scattering a bit more than the previous attack.

The explosions on the sea are numerous, but harmless.

Then, the hail of bullets from the sky do have an effect. From the clouds, the droning of the Zeppelin engines is augmented with the stataco of machine guns. On one of the warships hits are seen, the crew diving for cover. Some stay on the open deck, unmoving.

The machineguns pepper the sea further, but one by one the droning airsharks pass, and the guns go silent.

6 minutes later, the airships again drop from the cloudcover , but this time more ragged and less sure.

Now the Gran Colombians can estimate the rate of turn, the speed and the capacities better, and without orders, gun crews who are sure, start shooting. The HE shot arcing trough the air, exploding in the sea far beyond the airships, even if some swear they did achieve an hit.

One airship drops its load unaimed and swerves off, retreating in the cloudcover. But the others do dive and keep the aim , waiting, waiting untill they can't miss. The load of gliders unleashed, Gran Colombian crews shooting for all they can.

1 Airship spouting dark smoke, and veering off, in the clouds a silent explosion lits up as a chinese paper lamp.
The glidebombs now achive 1 thing this attack. 1 hits the flagship on the front of the front turret. The damage, deckplanks pulled off, and the paint from the solid armorplate is badly scorched.

OOC, more research on airship bombardments gives me several reasons why airships didn't dump all the load in 1 go. The massive weightloss is a huge load on the airframe, and the jump up could, and did damage the frame.
Other point is that airships can't manouver fast, just for the same reason. The airframe isn't up to the dynamic loads.

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Ithekro
Posted: Feb 11 2007, 11:45 PM

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OOC:

So mutually ineffective for the most part.

Some damage to the flagship, nothing that would cripple it unless the shock ruptured rivet below decks.

The airship seems to have hurt itself I would gather. I can't quite tell if it just self-destructed or not (spark-blast of some kind igniting the hydrogen gas)?

Shooting the gliders is nice, as those will get within range and elevation of the guns.

Borys · March 25, 2007, 03:49:05 AM

Maddox
Posted: Feb 11 2007, 11:57 PM

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The airship got a hit on a motorgondola, albeit it was closest and lowest to the flagship- it was also the one what dropped the 1 single hit.

The damage wasn't enough to down it, only slowing and making it less manouvrable.

But the fire of the fuel and the small leaks of Hydrogen gas from 1 of the cells did work together. The hydrogen captured under the undamaged upper skin ignited, and burned the top of the bag and it's neighbors. The flash of the mingling air and hydrogen was what is seen from the GC ships.

But even 3 of the 12 cells empty is not enough to make the airship crash immediatly. It does that in the middle of the empty sea. And that is not good for the crew...

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 12 2007, 12:31 AM

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deleted by me.

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Maddox
Posted: Feb 12 2007, 12:39 AM

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A liberal 200mph 500 lbs HE will give the guncrew a splitting headache.

The front armor of a GC battleship turret is meant to turn an 600lbs AP with a much higher velocity.

But I tought that was obvious.

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Ithekro
Posted: Feb 12 2007, 12:45 AM

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Had it hit farther back it would have made a mess of the superstructure (aside from the conning tower perhaps).

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 12 2007, 12:48 AM

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deleted by me.

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P3D
Posted: Feb 12 2007, 12:57 AM

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Hm, I never though about that the airships would not have the ability to launch an massed glider attack to overcome the defenses. Sudden release of 5 tons of bombs on a 20t airship would indeed cause an acceleration of 1/3 g.

And the one unlucky hit got the ship where it was the strongest - not in the unarmored areas.

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Borys
Posted: Feb 12 2007, 07:11 AM

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QUOTE (Desertfox @ Feb 12 2007, 01:43 AM)
New Switzerland will stay neutral on this one. Those directly affected (CSA, Rohan, EK, GC, France, DKB) will receive a private note stating NS neutrality, the note will also state that the Exclusion zone is no longer in effect (it never actually was).

Austria receives nothing.

NS will not fight over a small island in the Caribbean.

Doesnt mean I dont plan to share in the spoils...

Ballplatz, eary November 1904

Dragan Prso, the new Vice-Minister to Elio Di Runio, was going through cables from Habsburg legations abroad. Within several days of one another, several had reported a Small Island New Swiss communique on the IC crises. But the SINS embassy had not delivered anything to the Ballplatz.
Prso shrugged - "We don't like them either."

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 12 2007, 10:01 PM

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QUOTE (Desertfox @ Feb 11 2007, 06:43 PM)
New Switzerland will stay neutral on this one. Those directly affected (CSA, Rohan, EK, GC, France, DKB) will receive a private note stating NS neutrality, the note will also state that the Exclusion zone is no longer in effect (it never actually was).

Austria receives nothing.

NS will not fight over a small island in the Caribbean.

Doesnt mean I dont plan to share in the spoils...

The Swiss won't be getting any spoils. One way or another.


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Ithekro
Posted: Feb 13 2007, 12:42 AM

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OOC:

Hmmm. Now what will come of all this I wonder? Guess that will be for late November and December. Seems the Swiss have made an error somewhere in this scenerio. Time to ponder things as more informations comes out.

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The Rock Doctor
Posted: Feb 13 2007, 05:26 AM

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EK and GC have not broken off diplomatic correspondence, so a peaceful resolution remains possible.

That said, my mother-in-law has been hospitalized so my time here may be limited for a bit.

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Desertfox
Posted: Feb 13 2007, 02:18 PM

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Yes I made some serious miscalculations, but there are still spoils to be had.

Rocky there's a PM for you in WW about this.

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 13 2007, 03:57 PM

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QUOTE (The Rock Doctor @ Feb 13 2007, 05:26 AM)
EK and GC have not broken off diplomatic correspondence, so a peaceful resolution remains possible.

That said, my mother-in-law has been hospitalized so my time here may be limited for a bit.

omg, thats so sad.

I work at a hospital.

I hope she gets well soon.

Just remember, to make sure she eats enough, or at lest remind her when you visit her. Trust me, it makes all the difference. Liquids too. Liquids are essential to digestive issues.

I work as a Nutrition Assistant. Eating well guarentee's the best chances of a healthy recovery!

:-)

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The Rock Doctor
Posted: Feb 13 2007, 05:35 PM

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Appreciate that, Gabi. She's been released - it turns out to be far less serious than it initially seemed it might be.

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The Rock Doctor
Posted: Feb 13 2007, 08:46 PM

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Apologies for the silence, folks. Real life plus back room negotiations add up.

5 November 1904: La Prensa Nacional

The Government has confirmed that there has been an incident between Eastern Kingdom forces and our valiant Armada in the Caribbean Sea.

Few details are being released at this point, but indications are that an Armada warship has been struck by an Eastern Kingdom bomb, causing some injuries but no fatalities. "The ship has sustained minor damage and has completed its mission of escorting disaster-relief vessels into Cromwell*", said an Armada spokesman. He confirmed that the airship responsible for the attack had been destroyed. "The airship was engaged with gunfire and seen to burn."

Officals from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs confirmed that talks are underway with the Eastern Kingdom government. A source who asked not to be named told La Prensa, "Being a peaceful and civilized nation, Gran Colombia wishes to provide the Eastern Kingdom with an opportunity to conclude its activities in the Montego Bay area without further incident. Similarly, it is our belief that the Eastern Kingdom does not desire war with Gran Colombia. Therefore, our diplomatic staff in Dodan are meeting with Eastern Kingdom officials to discuss the art of the possible. Should these talks fail, we will look to other means to resolve the situation."

Meanwhile, concerns about New Swiss intervention are being shrugged off by the government. "We have received communications expressing New Swiss neutrality in this matter. We expect that we can take them at their word in this."

*Cromwell being the name of Kingston in this world...

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The Rock Doctor
Posted: Feb 13 2007, 09:30 PM

Hegemon
*

Group: Head of State
Posts: 463
Member No.: 57
Joined: 4-January 06


6 November 1904: Somewhere near Guatanamo, Cuba

Warning: my wife rented "Saw III" a few days back, so reader discretion is advised.

It seemed odd that dogs would be playing poker or that a group of ducks would be sitting upon him, but it was only when the latter started speaking to him in nasal tones about insects that Eusebio's inner voice noted, Ah...I'm dreaming. Stupid birds. He tried to wave his arms and startled them away, but the birds were surprisingly heavy. He made another attempt, and frustration at failure began to drive him out of the slumber. This did not help matters, as increasing perception of his own body served to notify him that his arms were, in fact, immobilized.

"Huh...?", he murmered. He tried to roll onto his side, but his legs and torso were similar restrained. One eye cracked open, then the other, blinking away the initial dryness as they adapted to a flickering orange glow illuminating his surroundings...

...which looked more like somebody's root cellar than his bedroom.

"What on...?" He cursed, struggled, and brought his head up. In candlelight, he could see an iron band circling his chest, and felt cold metal at his elbows, wrists, knees, and ankles. Panicking, he turned his head left and then right, his gaze falling upon another man, seated on a stool a few feet away.

"Good morning", the man said.

"What the hell is this?", Eusebio demanded.

"For the purposes of today, an arena", the other responded.

"A what? What's going on?" He strained against the bands for several seconds, then went limp. "Let me out of here, dammit!"

"To answer your first question for a second time, this is an arena. To answer your second question for the first time, you and I are poised to begin a contest. Consequently, with respect to your imperative statement, I am unable to agree to it", the other man answered. Eusebio could see that he wore a leather apron over a set of green clothes. Two leather and wood trunks lay open on a bench to the man's right.

"Why am I here?", Eusebio demanded, straining again.

"I would recommend that you cease to struggle. The bands will not give way, and you will require your strength for the contest", the other said dispassionately. "As to why you are here, some gentlemen in pastel suits and rustic headwear delivered you here and asked that I establish what you know about some recent events involving a large...balloon."

Eusebio's eyes went wide. "I don't know anything! I don't know anything!", he shouted.

"That is a meaningless statement, Eusebio, as I have yet to ask you a question."

"You have to believe me: I don't know anything!", Eusebio repeated frantically.

"To believe you, I would have to trust in your honesty, and you have yet to earn that trust", the other man said. "That is the purpose of the contest we are to have: your ability to earn my trust, versus my ability to deconstruct you."

"Deconstruct?", Eusebio shrieked.

"Deconstruct. As in, to take apart or dismantle in a controlled fashion", the other man said, lifting his hands to show Eusebio a hammer and chisel. "It is my trade."

Borys · March 25, 2007, 03:49:26 AM

Maddox
Posted: Feb 14 2007, 03:08 AM

Hegemon
Group Icon

Group: Sim Moderator
Posts: 1,160
Member No.: 43
Joined: 6-March 05


OOC
I'm getting intrigued.

Or I'll await the rest biggrin.gif

PM me where this will go please....

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The Rock Doctor
Posted: Feb 14 2007, 05:19 AM

Hegemon
*

Group: Head of State
Posts: 463
Member No.: 57
Joined: 4-January 06


I've asked Gabi to PM you with respect to an issue. If she hasn't been able to reach you by this evening, I'll send you a note as well.

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Borys
Posted: Feb 14 2007, 08:30 AM

Kaiser und Koenig Stefan
*

Group: Head of State
Posts: 1,237
Member No.: 72
Joined: 10-August 06


Mid November 1904, at several Gra Colombian yards

On drydock side, a foreman addressing yard workers, some of whom are totaly raw.
- The senor etapenkomeda ... etapenkokomediant ... the bigshot Austrian wants the ships to be cleaned as fast as possible. That is why there are so many of you, and that is why we are doing a dry run. And getting paid good* money at that!
One of the men asked:
- Painting?
- No, the Austrians are in such a hurry that scrapping only, no painting.
- But they will get their hulls overgrown even quicker ...
- That's what they want. Cold climate is bad for the bran they say, it kills of the thinking part, you know ...

* hyperbole

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The Rock Doctor
Posted: Feb 14 2007, 10:23 PM

Hegemon
*

Group: Head of State
Posts: 463
Member No.: 57
Joined: 4-January 06


A Gran Colombian spokesman comments to the media on 11 November:

"We believe we have secured an agreement that will see the Eastern Kingdom conclude its policing action and withdraw its policing forces from the former Island Commonwealth. As Eastern Kingdom troops are transported out of the area, Gran Colombian authorities will be moving in to the area over the coming week to ensure law and order and to undertake any relief work that may be required.

"Upon confirmation that all EK forces have vacated the state of Jamaica, Gran Colombia will confirm that a full and permanent peace has been restored to our relationship with the Eastern Kingdom.

"As there is evidence to suggest the previous presence of third parties in the Island Commonwealth prior to its amalgamation with Gran Colombia, we remind any such parties that any continued presence may be viewed as an act of belligerancy against Gran Colombia.

"Thank you."

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Gabi86
Posted: Feb 15 2007, 12:43 AM

Hegemon
*

Group: Head of State
Posts: 342
Member No.: 84
Joined: 22-November 06


EK Senate release,
November 8th, 1904:

EK troops begin withdrawl today. Total troop absence can be expected within no more than 2 weeks. Until that time, Swiss ships in the area will be targeted if crossing into the exclusion zone.

-Eastern Kingdom Senate

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Borys
Posted: Feb 15 2007, 01:23 AM

Kaiser und Koenig Stefan
*

Group: Head of State
Posts: 1,237
Member No.: 72
Joined: 10-August 06


Around the 20th November, Caracas, Colon, Cartagena

4 Austrian Panzerkreuzer arrive, are drydocked and immediately subject to vigorous bottom scraping. Due to use of labour intensive methods the ships leave the docks before the month is over. The Squadron assembles at Trinidad and sails East.

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Desertfox
Posted: Feb 15 2007, 10:14 AM

Commander Johann Wyss
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Group: Head of State
Posts: 1,101
Member No.: 41
Joined: 5-March 05


Hmm, so the EK is threatning non existant (that started the problem) Swiss ships, in a Swiss exclusion zone, while they are still allies, before the Treaty is canceled?

Id say that's about par for the course. biggrin.gif

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Borys
Posted: Feb 15 2007, 09:11 PM

Kaiser und Koenig Stefan
*

Group: Head of State
Posts: 1,237
Member No.: 72
Joined: 10-August 06


Last week of November, Gra Colombian ports

The Austrian Etappenkommendant was busy trying to charter freighters. The Brasilian war was good for business, so it was not easy to find ships. Especially that the terms of the charter are strange and vague - "travel empty (or with cargo at own discretion) to Sao Luis de Maranhao, take - unspecified as of yet - cargo there, and proceed to destination to be disclosed there and then".
But as von Grabenmacher -in desperation - offered 25% above market rates, half a dozen freighters took up the offer.

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Desertfox
Posted: Feb 15 2007, 09:51 PM

Commander Johann Wyss
*

Group: Head of State
Posts: 1,101
Member No.: 41
Joined: 5-March 05


Just ask the Swiss, they'll do anything for money. Even sell to the enemy if the enemy pays more! biggrin.gif