CSA Battlecruisers

[Delta Force]

Is it possible to use a 17 inch gun? That gives a good compromise between the 16s and the 18s, although if I were to develop it would it be considered a 16 inch or an 18 inch gun for research purposes?

[Guinness]

Anything over 16" is 18" on our chart and requires that level of technological progression.

[Jefgte]

Don't built too big  8)

If your BB receive torpedoes salvo from a 1000t submarine ...

Admiral Delta  :'(  :'(  :'(


Jef  ;)

[Delta Force]

New and improved:

CSA Battlecruiser, CSA Battlecruiser laid down 1920

Displacement:
   40,381 t light; 42,790 t standard; 47,820 t normal; 51,844 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   872.70 ft / 872.70 ft x 105.32 ft (Bulges 111.88 ft) x 31.17 ft (normal load)
   266.00 m / 266.00 m x 32.10 m (Bulges 34.10 m)  x 9.50 m

Armament:
      8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2,000.00lbs / 907.18kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 75.00lbs / 34.02kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side ends, evenly spread
      4 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 17,208 lbs / 7,805 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.00" / 229 mm   490.00 ft / 149.35 m   16.50 ft / 5.03 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 86 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      3.00" / 76 mm   490.00 ft / 149.35 m   27.10 ft / 8.26 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      11.0" / 279 mm
   2nd:   8.00" / 203 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      8.00" / 203 mm

   - Armour deck: 5.00" / 127 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 159,914 shp / 119,296 Kw = 30.13 kts
   Range 22,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 9,055 tons

Complement:
   1,616 - 2,101

Cost:
   £8.874 million / $35.494 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,855 tons, 3.9 %
   Armour: 14,171 tons, 29.6 %
      - Belts: 3,175 tons, 6.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,474 tons, 3.1 %
      - Armament: 3,191 tons, 6.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 5,933 tons, 12.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 397 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 5,591 tons, 11.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,363 tons, 38.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,439 tons, 15.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     69,819 lbs / 31,669 Kg = 41.4 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 11.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
   Metacentric height 7.7 ft / 2.3 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 29.54 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      32.48 ft / 9.90 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.31 ft / 6.80 m
      - Mid (50 %):      22.31 ft / 6.80 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   22.31 ft / 6.80 m
      - Stern:      22.31 ft / 6.80 m
      - Average freeboard:   23.12 ft / 7.05 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 168.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 64,142 Square feet or 5,959 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 201 lbs/sq ft or 982 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.03
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Logi]

Rather thick deck and thin belt, when there is no real experience with plunging fire. There's no warrant for a 5" deck whilst leaving such a thin belt. I personally put 4" (in imperial units) as the reasonable limit without warranting a increase in overall protection with it.

[mentat]

  re 17" Main Armament

- I looked at it in a thread a while back on 40k ton Designs "Leviathan"  - 8 x 17" fits nicely with decent armour, 28 knots and normal range ....

     - could one want more ??

[Delta Force]

Version 4, it has armor slightly weaker than a pre-war dreadnought now.

CSA Battlecruiser, CSA Battlecruiser laid down 1920

Displacement:
   40,361 t light; 42,790 t standard; 47,820 t normal; 51,844 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   872.70 ft / 872.70 ft x 105.32 ft (Bulges 111.88 ft) x 31.17 ft (normal load)
   266.00 m / 266.00 m x 32.10 m (Bulges 34.10 m)  x 9.50 m

Armament:
      8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2,000.00lbs / 907.18kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 75.00lbs / 34.02kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side ends, evenly spread
      4 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 17,208 lbs / 7,805 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 152

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   486.00 ft / 148.13 m   16.50 ft / 5.03 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 86 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1.00" / 25 mm   486.00 ft / 148.13 m   24.75 ft / 7.54 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm

   - Armour deck: 5.00" / 127 mm, Conning tower: 16.00" / 406 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 157,261 shp / 117,317 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 22,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 9,055 tons

Complement:
   1,616 - 2,101

Cost:
   £8.841 million / $35.365 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,855 tons, 3.9 %
   Armour: 14,295 tons, 29.9 %
      - Belts: 4,206 tons, 8.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 445 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armament: 3,257 tons, 6.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 5,933 tons, 12.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 454 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 5,499 tons, 11.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,313 tons, 38.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,459 tons, 15.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     67,897 lbs / 30,798 Kg = 40.2 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 9.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 6.9 ft / 2.1 m
   Roll period: 17.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 29.54 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      32.48 ft / 9.90 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.31 ft / 6.80 m
      - Mid (50 %):      22.31 ft / 6.80 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   22.31 ft / 6.80 m
      - Stern:      22.31 ft / 6.80 m
      - Average freeboard:   23.12 ft / 7.05 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 168.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 64,142 Square feet or 5,959 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 201 lbs/sq ft or 980 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.02
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[snip]

your steam is way to high with proportion to the rest of the hull. Are you using the default freeboard?

[TexanCowboy]

You don't need 5'' of deck armour for any reason. At all.

[Logi]

Rather thick deck and thin belt, when there is no real experience with plunging fire. There's no warrant for a 5" deck whilst leaving such a thin belt. I personally put 4" (in imperial units) as the reasonable limit without warranting a increase in overall protection with it.

Also, it's a huge waste of one of the two 40 kton ship slots allowed by the Richmond Naval Treaty IMO.

[Delta Force]

your steam is way to high with proportion to the rest of the hull. Are you using the default freeboard?

Default, but I raised freeboard everywhere but the stem by 0.5 meters.

[snip]

the stem is way to high in the default it gives you. I have never seen a ship with a ~3m rise on the stem. That would play so much havoc with the gun arcs over the bow. I also agree, this is a colossal waste of a 40kton ship for the CSA.

[Sachmle]

the stem is way to high in the default it gives you. I have never seen a ship with a ~3m rise on the stem. That would play so much havoc with the gun arcs over the bow.

Vanguard

[snip]

it was 3m? Guess without a drawing I am jumping to conclutions

[Delta Force]

the stem is way to high in the default it gives you. I have never seen a ship with a ~3m rise on the stem. That would play so much havoc with the gun arcs over the bow. I also agree, this is a colossal waste of a 40kton ship for the CSA.

I can actually bring it down to only slightly higher than the rest of the ship without having anything happen to handling or hull strength. So it turns out that the stem actually can be much lower.

What do you think about the rest of the design? The reference to Vanguard made me look it up, and this design is actually rather similar to it, except for being longer and lighter in displacement.