History of Navalism Europe

[ctwaterman]

OK,

I was talking with Guinness and we were discussing Navalism history vs Our Time Line History.

So...

1.   The Reformation did it ever reach the Shores of England or did it do so latter then historical.   The asks the question is the UNK "Church of England" and Protestant with some Catholics or still strongly Catholic.

2.  Are the Kings of the UNK directly desended from the Plantagenet line or from some other line..... and how does that effect #1 above.

I am working on finding the back story for the UNK I am sure it is in the old new area somewhere...... ;)

But how does everyone thing that the Reformation effected their countries.  Please Europe only.....

Charles

[Ithekro]

Well in theory the UNK is an England that was never retaken after the Norman invasion. (or something like that).  The original concept was because in the first part of this continuaty of Navalism, there was no England or British Empire (there was some sort of fantasy like race with Celtic and Roman root behind a mist of fog) yet there were still nominally "English" speaking counties that were historically based on English colonies (CSA and at the time UKA plus elements of the New Swiss states).  Thus we had to come up with a way to get an English alternatve to have some of these personalitied and backstory.  Thus enter the Normans of Normandy.  Originally we were going to hae had them fight a prolonged 100 years war and others over the French crown (as historical) just maintain the whole of the Norman/English population in France, having ever managed to invade in 1066.

That all changed again when we moved here because we dropped the fantasy power in the British Isles (due both to lack of material and because the player of said country was one factor for the move).  Thus the Normans returned to the British Isles.  The historical context may never have been fixed as to if they were always there or if they had to take the place by force at some point after the tradtional 1066 invasion.  The logic being that there had to be a way and reason why France is the main world naval power and not the island nation of the UNK.

[Desertfox]

Well a key point in Swiss history is William of Orange not succeeding as in OTL. He is forced to move from the UNK Islands to America and from there to Australia, where the current Australian Monarchy descends from. So I would presume that the Reformation failed in the UNK? With NS being populated by many of those fleeing religious persecution in the UNK/France/etc.

I think the Netherlands is the only true protestant country in Europe.   

[miketr]

I think the Netherlands is the only true protestant country in Europe.   

I got the impression that the Baltic Confederation was Protestant.

Iberia is Uber Catholic of course.

Michael

[Borys]

Ahoj!

The logic being that there had to be a way and reason why France is the main world naval power and not the island nation of the UNK.

Weaker Normans, reasons:
- no Ireland;
- stronger Netherlands, particularly with its possession of Scottish fyords (no draught limit on battleships, stronger escort for convoys from India);
- civil war c.1800 leading to establishment of a break-away Norman Kingdom in North America;
- part of OTL Britsi commerce being done by the ACM

And wasn't there a Norman Republic in the Carribean? Commonwealth diehards refusing to acknowledge the Stuart Restoration?

As to Protestants - half of my Magyars are of the the exuberant, fun-loving Calvinist variety ...

[maddox]

Untill 1795 we can expect a rather "historical" UK development.
The main difference is that the Normans stayed in Normandie, seperate but cordial with the UK.
Untill the French Revolutionaries used that as a pretext to consolidate their power and aim the rage of the people to a more interesting target.

That event drove most of the Norman nobility and liquid capital to the UK. And sparked an armed peace between the UK- now UNK and France. Untill a Norman -friendly French government in 1900 ratified a treaty that catapulted both countries into a frenzy of technological advance.

But realpolitic is changing the equation....

[Borys]

Ahoj!
We really should synchronise :)
Borys

[snip]

As far as Ireland goes...

It seems like historically it was the English being involved in Ireland that lead to the reformation ending up there. Without that foreign power in place, I don't think it would have gained to much ground. Consider Ireland predominantly Catholic, but tolerant. (Unless someone has more info on this, then please share)

[damocles]

Well a key point in Swiss history is William of Orange not succeeding as in OTL. He is forced to move from the UNK Islands to America and from there to Australia, where the current Australian Monarchy descends from. So I would presume that the Reformation failed in the UNK? With NS being populated by many of those fleeing religious persecution in the UNK/France/etc.

I think the Netherlands is the only true protestant country in Europe.   

Note that with a huge Islamic and Buddhist NOI population in the United Provinces (The Moslem Reform Party is part of the van Rijn Conservative Coalition) along with a large Catholic population in what is in our RTL Belgium, the description of the Kingdom of Netherlands as "Protestant" is somewhat strange here. Its more likely that you could call the KoN a secular state.

[ledeper]

Religion in Esc:
Protestant 80%
Catholic 15% (In the Rheinland/Westphalia)
Thus an Catholic Cardinal(The Archbisop of Cologne)
Norse Religion 5% (Oden ,Thor and so on.)

[ctwaterman]

Ok,

So Im going to Ignore the Celtic or should I say Keltoi /Firbolg background of the N1 England.

Im going to assume a 1066 Historic Invasion for many reasons it makes since and since October 1966 is my birthday.... ;)

The UNK and France must have some history of the 100 Years wars but some where in that time they must have come to a peaceful agreement of some sort probably under threat from the Holy Roman Empire.... *Nudges Iberia and Austria*
This probably revolves around the UNK paying the French Kings a percentage of the Normandy Estates Income.

Now the 30 Years wars and the Reformation can be a problem as the Holy Roman Empire was quite strong but an Alliance of France and UNK might have been able to keep them out of France and possibly influence the Pope enough not to whole heartidly back the Burbons.... [I hope im getting most of my history correct]

Next comes Napoleon and he screws up everything.... including taking Normandy....

Honestly looking at the History I can see a real politic reason for a peace treaty between the UNK and France the fact that it has lasted as long as it did well that just taint natural.... :D

So the Reformation in England only lasted long enough for a certain King to get his Devorce and for a few generation after then we have the War of the Roses William and Mary of Orange and kick their buts over seas.

So what does people think......????
I am completely open to changes but I fully intend to keep the United Norman Kingdoms [America, England, Scotland, Wales, and the Principality of Azores] as a Constitutional Monarchy with the monarchy have just a tad bit more real power then it did in historic UK.

Charles

[Sachmle]

Makes more sense than a lot of N3 history, I'd say run with it.

[ctwaterman]

Makes more sense than a lot of N3 history, I'd say run with it.

Well other then getting my timeline screwed up as the War of the Roses is in the 1400's and William and Mary in the 1680's...

Australia was discovered in 1606 but colonization didnt really begin until 1788... now their are a whole series of gold discovery in the 1840 to 1860 in Australia supressed by the British government to keep the Convict at their sheep farms.   But if one of the first ships finds gold say 1640's their in a reason for earlier colonizations and then well after William and Mary run off to Australia we get Foxy's New Swiss Australia.

Charles

[Borys]

Note that with a huge Islamic and Buddhist NOI population in the United Provinces (The Moslem Reform Party is part of the van Rijn Conservative Coalition) along with a large Catholic population in what is in our RTL Belgium, the description of the Kingdom of Netherlands as "Protestant" is somewhat strange here. Its more likely that you could call the KoN a secular state.

RL Belgium is Catholic because the Spanish (Habsburgs) held on to it. Here, either there were no Spanish (Habsburgs) to hold on to the South Provinces to begin with, or the Rebellion was more successful. And the Netherlands ended up 100% Calvinist.

[Ithekro]

Question:  What effect would a continental Norman state still in France have on the Lower Countries?