Second Rift War OOC

[Walter]

The casualty tracker (based on given numbers):
Italy vs New Zion: 20,000-21,500

Also, a good thing for Italy that they did not sign the Vienna Convention.

*waits eagerly for the next "Empire of Italia Diplomatic Standings" post* :)

[The Rock Doctor]

Extrapolate those and the air losses out to six months, and we might find January 1920 consists of old women swinging their handbags at each other.

[Walter]

... in which case the war might last forever. Every time one granny is knocked out, another will have regained consciousness and will continue to wield her handbag until she's knocked out again.

[Sachmle]

So aircraft have sunk a ship in harbor...without torpedoes even. Have to admit I'm surprised by how effective the Zionite resistance has been considering they're not fully mobilized yet and it's usually divisions versus corps. How many men are in a Zion Division anyway? Aircraft attrition rates suck so far. I'm impressed by the effectiveness of ground fire to take out aircraft so far. All interesting stuff.

[Walter]

I would expect that a Zionite Division is half a Zionite Corps. 1 Corps mobilized = 50,000 men. 1/2 Corps mobilized = 25,000 men.

[The Rock Doctor]

The Zionites benefit greatly from being on the defensive, in rough terrain.  They also got very lucky with one of the dice roll - though, to be fair, the Italians aso got lucky with one of the battle dice rolls.

May be too soon to draw conclusions from aircraft ops.  I may adjust their effectiveness, and that of ground fire, if it seems too great or low.

[Sachmle]

I would expect that a Zionite Division is half a Zionite Corps. 1 Corps mobilized = 50,000 men. 1/2 Corps mobilized = 25,000 men.

I always figured a division as 1/4th a Corp, 12500 men. 1 Corps (50,000) = 4 Div (12,500), 1 Div (12,500) = 4 Brig (3,125).

[damocles]

OOC.

Somebody is not using his amphibious forces right.

Let me show you what I mean. Note the underlined.

Second Rift War:  July 1-15, 1919

Northern Front

Zionite forces are arrayed across their northern border awaiting an Italian assault; the Italians do not disappoint.  Three legions (XXII, XVII, and a third unidentified) punch southeast along the coastal plains for Eliat, with a regiment of armored cars patrolling their western flank and securing supply routes.

The Zionite 1st Division establishes defensive positions around Eilat and is subjected to intense artillery bombardment.  Both nation's air forces attempt to throw the odds in their favor, though the Zionites are more successful on account of numbers.  Approximately 25 Italian and Zionite fighters are lost, as are 25 Zionite ground attack aircraft (the latter mostly due to Italian ground fire as the Zionites press home their attacks).

On July 15, Eilat is still holding, completely enveloped by two Italian legions with a third in reserve (though its artillery is contributing to the siege.  Italian casualties are about 7,000, versus 5,500 for the Zionites.  Italian artillery is also causing Zionite civilian casualties.

Italian scout aircraft detect Zionite troops along a line between the towns of Inda Silase and Adwa, west of Eliat, but can not penetrate further south on account of Zionite fighter coverage.

Italian heavy bombers out of Aseb raid Eliat, losing four aircraft to enemy fire and accidents while successfully sinking the destroyer Yaffo at its moorings.  Harbour facilities take minor damage, and a few bombs fall into nearby residential districts.

1. Now the Italians have snaked their way along the coast overland and managed to encircle Eilat and besiege it but they left a hostile enemy in the mountains to the northwest and behind them. NZ raiders are going to eat their supply lines alive.  If there is one thing a siege is, it is supply intensive. That is bad terrain for such extended supply lines and that kind of warfare.  It gives a free defender to many options      
2. It would be a lot harder for a defense to hold against amphibious assaults  combined with the overland drive. Landings south of Eilat with a over the beach supplied force in place+ the overland assault splits the defense and catches them in a vise. Eilat falls to a coup de main and you have a northern base from which you chase the NZs into the central hills.

Let"s look at the naval war. Again note the underlined

Central Front

Italian heavy bombers out of Dire Dawa strike at Tel Aviv, losing three aircraft to enemy fire and accidents while escorting fighters and Zionite defenders lose ten and seven aircraft respectively - those who do manage to ditch their aircraft are retrieved by Zionite naval forces.  Damage to Tel Aviv includes a destroyed bunkerage fuel tank, damage to the Type 1 drydock (25% of cost to repair), and a near miss that causes splinter damage to a Kufrah class coastal defence battleship.  Some bombs fall into neighbouring residential districts.

On July 3, Zionite naval aircraft catch an Italian submarine on the surface, off Tel Aviv.  The submarine is successfully strafed and bombs fall around her as she dives.

On July 5, a Zionite trawler participating in laying the northern Rift mine barrage is damaged by two Italian aircraft.  The trawler is subsequently abandoned by her crew and burns out over night.  Laying of the two barrages continues, with Zionite destroyers supplementing the civilian craft doing much of the work.  They and the Italian aircraft trade fire, costing three Italian aircraft versus no other damage to Zionite ships.

On July 9, Zionite aerial patrols spot an Italian convoy moving north in the Rift Sea, east of Atlit.  The next day, this force - which includes several large cruisers and a number of escorts - anchors offshore, forty miles northeast of Atlit.  Troops are landed against essentially no resistence, and what will be later identified as Italian marines spend four days scouring the area, tearing up or otherwise destroying infrastructure such as railways, roads, piers, boats, telephone and electrical lines.  Local officials are advised that they may be entitled to seek compensation for personal losses post-war.

On July 13, a Zionite submarine arrives on the scene and attacks.  The Italian heavy cruiser Dacius is the primary target - both weapons run true, but one detonates short of the target.  The other strikes home amidships, causing her to list.  The submarine's other two torpedoes are aimed at an alert destroyer, which is not struck and spends the next several hours suppressing the submarine.  By the morning of the 14th, the Italians have loaded up their troops and are retiring south, apparently with the damaged cruiser in the formation.

Italian blimps and scout aircraft and Zionite scout aircraft are up and patrolling over the North Rift Sea, but do not engage each other.

1. What we learn here is that the Italians attempt to use air power to attack while the NZers use it to guide other forces onto the attack. Neither side shows a superiority in night fighting tactics yet. Luck seems to be with the NZers as well. They should not have penetrated an alert ASW screen that quickly and easily, not with their tech and equipment.      

2. I don't know what the marines thought they were doing, but a raid like that can be mounted with smaller forces and do as much damage. When you raid, suit the force to the objective. Conservation principle applies. The raid should also support another operation, not be an end to itself. Consider what it means to an enemy who has to divert troops from the front to protect an open sea flank? It also forces his navy out to fight where you can get at them and destroy them instead of exposing your own forces to a brown water ambush as seen here.            

Southern Front

Two Italian corps (X, XVIII) cross the border west of Lake Victoria and encounters Zionite 12th Division, which conducts a spirited fighting withdrawal that costs 4,000 Italian casualties versus three thousand Zionite casualties.  On the 8th, 12th Division passes through the lines of Zionite 13th Division, which is to hold up the Italians further.
[/u]

However, the Italian attack on July 10th benefits from effective air support and scouting (no Zionite aircraft being observed over the front) and catches 13th Division at a gap between brigades.  Part of the division is surrounded and routed, while two unengaged brigades fall back in confusion.  Italian casualties total 9,000, versus 13,000 Zionite, approximately half of whom are taken prisoner.  By July 15, the Italians have advanced as far as the north end of Lake Edward to the west, and have the outskirts of Kampala in artillery range in the east.

Italian blimps and scout aircraft are patrolling over the South Rift Sea.

1. What is missing here? Sure here the Italians are doing better and advancing in good order against moderate opposition, but what an opportunity! The open terrain north of Lake Victoria is well watered and hilly but not excessively hilly. It will easily support fast marching light infantry and horse cavalry. The only thing in the actual way is the stupid lake.  There is a hint there.......

2. Most hook envelopments start when an enemy puts himself in a position where he thinks he is safe because of impassable terrain, but a shrewd operator sees the strait jacket so sewn as the limit on the enemy and not on himself.

Guagamella and Crecy apply. Even a little exercise like Leuthen applies. Use the enemy position anchor as the hammer to beat him to death with and remember, "Water is not a barrier or an obstacle: its an opportunity, and a highway to victory."        



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[Logi]

Stop! Don't tell them how to end the war quicker! :D

[Walter]

I always figured a division as 1/4th a Corp, 12500 men. 1 Corps (50,000) = 4 Div (12,500), 1 Div (12,500) = 4 Brig (3,125).

From the rules:

For book keeping purposes, a corps may be divided into divisions or brigades. Divisions are equal to one half of a corps. Brigades are equal to one tenth of a corps.

In reality it really varies how many divisions go in a Corps if we stick to the 50,000 men figure.
A few figures from the WW1 data book's TOEs:
Belgian Infantry Division (1914): 31,196 officers and men
Belgian Cavalry Division (1914): 7,169 officers and men
French Infantry Division (1914): c.15,000 officers and men
French Cavalry Division (1914): c.4,500 officers and men
Rumanian Infantry Division (1916): c.20,000 officers and men
Rumanian Cavalry Division (1916): 5,280 officers and men

Stop! Don't tell them how to end the war quicker!

Yes, we need to keep borys and his Blood God happy. ;D

[Borys]

Ahoj!
The 1914 Belgian Division actually was a mini-Corps, as the King was reforming the army on the quiet, and was trying to hide from parliament the fact that he was aiming at six corps.
http://marksrussianmilitaryhistory.info/BELG14.html

It is possible that the figure of 30K includes 3rd line Battalions, which would serve as fortress garrisons.
Borys

[Walter]

Okay, looking at the book, it does not indicate that. I did miss the "Figures for the four-brigade 4th Division). Also looked wrong. The Belgian Cavalry bit is actually for the Austria-Hungary Cavalry Divisions. The Belgian one is not given.

[ctwaterman]

Unfortuantely the Terrain in the South around Lake Viktoria is from my Information Mostly Nasty Rain Forest ... and the Open Terrain north of that is several hundred Kilometers from where I am currently located.   

New Zion has over 1000 Km of Coast Line.  ;)

The Sheer Size of the Area meant this was never going to be a short war...

[Desertfox]

Why Rocky? Why? Why is the main proponent of airpower the only one that has to suffer losses to ships from the air? Why? Sorry guys, but the AA armament on Swiss/Zionite ships just got a whole lot heavier.

I am surprised the Italians did as well as they did in the South. That area is very nasty jungle. I didn't even expect any fighting to be going there.

[The Rock Doctor]

Why?  Well, the Italians gave orders to use aircraft against naval targets, and Zion didn't.  Weight of numbers ensured that something was going to get hit.  However, a civilian trawler, carrying mines, and a small, stationary, obsolete destroyer are hardly cause for a major freak-out by Zionite authorities.

Jungle's nasty in the south, but not much different than the jungle the Italians came from.